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Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
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Posted - 2013.03.03 23:59:00 -
[151] - Quote
lol he is like the court jester from some local ren fayre nightmare.
no really, i quite like his website, they would never run this article.
still lol @ ren fayre. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
510
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Posted - 2013.03.04 00:02:00 -
[152] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that he was drunk during the days it took him to prepare his presentation. But yeah, it's always the alcohol's fault :).
The only people who took that seriously was white knighters such as yourself with an axe to grind. The irony here the people such as yourself arn't joking when you say things like Quote:I hereby encourage people ton++ find and kill Alexander Gianturco.
I beg your pardon? I see, retorting to lying now . Please do show where I have EVER said anything like that.
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Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
17
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Posted - 2013.03.04 00:06:00 -
[153] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Jensaro Koraka wrote:March rabbit wrote:So i'm right: PvPers made everybody left these places. No you aren't. See my last post. your last post is full of whine.... oops. sorry. this is complaints! Only bears whine. You guys just keep hurling insults while refusing to rebut my points. Why not just admit you got nothin'?
March rabbit wrote:However nothing new was told. The only difference between safe haven (high-sec) and low-sec is: CONCORD protection. Protection of one player from another. So all the reasons why bears left low-sec is other players. Who are these players? PvPers. Once again, that wasn't always the case and that's my complaint. The answer is reversing what killed low, not trammelizing high. We need more low sec systems, jump drives need to either be removed or made unusuable in low, the rewards need to be brought back in line, and high needs to be dethemeparked.
It's like talking to a wall.
Me: "Eve used to be like X and now it's like Y. It was better when it was like X." You: "You're wrong because it's like Y." Me: I just said that! That's what I'm complaining about! /facepalm "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
baltec1
Bat Country
5473
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Posted - 2013.03.04 00:07:00 -
[154] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:I beg your pardon? I see, retorting to lying now . Please do show where I have EVER said anything like that.
I see you still suffer from selective reading.
This subject was resolved last year and resulted in a disgusting show from all sides. Just drop that chip and move on like everyone else did. |
Prekaz
the gentlemen's corporation
28
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 00:14:00 -
[155] - Quote
Article summary:
Captain Obvious observes that other people want to play the game in a fashion that differs from the way he wants them to play the game.
He is upset about this, and too stupid to recognize the irony. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
17
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Posted - 2013.03.04 00:21:00 -
[156] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Takseen wrote:Sure, that could work. I just think back to the types of high risk pve I have engaged in. Escalations from highsec plexes-Short duration, can be done in a T1 cruiser, high chance of a big payout, no penalty if I have to abandon them. C1/2 Wormhole anoms-shortish duration, not much loot to carry, nice payout, unique NPC combat I can't get in highsec, no penalty for abandoning, no local. The latter kinda works to my advantage since I'd prefer not to broadcast my presence automatically like I do in lowsec.
Basically if you could do lowsec level 4s in a BC or level 3s in a cruiser as you'd do them in a BS or a BC respectively in highsec, it'd be somewhat tempting to put up with the Dscan hassle. Even better if you could do them pvp fit. I think that's really key, as if you're in a (high sec) mission fit in low sec then you're in a fail fit. the content just has to be different. also the damn thing should be able to cycle and set some audible warning of contact for the settings i choose. Nothing wrong with PvE fits in low sec. People use them in null all the time. The reason it's still viable to do it in null, but not in low is that in null you have way more territory and that makes all the new ways of getting around gate camps less of a problem. In low when you wanted to carebear it up you found a string of dead end systems and camped the entrance to "your space". In null you have an intel channel warning you before people get anywhere near you. You have bubbles to give you more time to uncloak people. Your space is bigger than the range of a jump drive. You also have jump bridges to quickly bring in reinforcements. In low that unbubbled gate camp is the entirety of your defense. Before cloaking and jump drives that was viable. Now it isn't. High sec isn't the only problem. Low sec hasn't seen any non-FW love from CCP in forever. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2013.03.04 00:33:00 -
[157] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:Nothing wrong with PvE fits in low sec. People use them in null all the time. The reason it's still viable to do it in null, but not in low is that in null you have way more territory and that makes all the new ways of getting around gate camps less of a problem. In low when you wanted to carebear it up you found a string of dead end systems and camped the entrance to "your space". In null you have an intel channel warning you before people get anywhere near you. You have bubbles to give you more time to uncloak people. Your space is bigger than the range of a jump drive. You also have jump bridges to quickly bring in reinforcements. In low that unbubbled gate camp is the entirety of your defense. Before cloaking and jump drives that was viable. Now it isn't. High sec isn't the only problem. Low sec hasn't seen any non-FW love from CCP in forever.
well okay but that involves a level of organisation that solo high sec missioneers don't have to deal with. and apparently even if they do deal with it it doesn't work so maybe they should make it different to high sec?
same with mining really. why would i bother? I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
17
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Posted - 2013.03.04 00:35:00 -
[158] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Jensaro Koraka wrote:Nothing wrong with PvE fits in low sec. People use them in null all the time. The reason it's still viable to do it in null, but not in low is that in null you have way more territory and that makes all the new ways of getting around gate camps less of a problem. In low when you wanted to carebear it up you found a string of dead end systems and camped the entrance to "your space". In null you have an intel channel warning you before people get anywhere near you. You have bubbles to give you more time to uncloak people. Your space is bigger than the range of a jump drive. You also have jump bridges to quickly bring in reinforcements. In low that unbubbled gate camp is the entirety of your defense. Before cloaking and jump drives that was viable. Now it isn't. High sec isn't the only problem. Low sec hasn't seen any non-FW love from CCP in forever. well okay but that involves a level of organisation that solo high sec missioneers don't have to deal with. and apparently even if they do deal with it it doesn't work so maybe they should make it different to high sec? same with mining really. why would i bother? It used to work. I want it to work again. High sec is a solution without a problem. It caused CCP to forget the real issues. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
baltec1
Bat Country
5473
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 00:39:00 -
[159] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote: Never? That's odd, I seem to remember CCP complimenting the gankers when it first started happening. Of course, that was when we had original CCP like Oveur and not Punktarded.
CCP were fooled into thinking the bare hull of the exhumers were profitable to gank. |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 00:44:00 -
[160] - Quote
poor foolish CCP, masters of the universe and yet... slaves to its inhabitants. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
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Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
17
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Posted - 2013.03.04 00:45:00 -
[161] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:poor foolish CCP, masters of the universe and yet... slaves to its inhabitants. You'd rather they ignore us? "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2013.03.04 00:50:00 -
[162] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:poor foolish CCP, masters of the universe and yet... slaves to its inhabitants. You'd rather they ignore us?
yes, mostly. it's really for the best to ignore 99% of user requests because 1% of the userbase are whining. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
193
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Posted - 2013.03.04 00:55:00 -
[163] - Quote
People getting mad in this thread. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1622
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 04:30:00 -
[164] - Quote
Hmm. Looks like my comment that pointed out flaws in his argument was deleted. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1662
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 04:48:00 -
[165] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:.......
You can't once they've left or if they never stayed in the first place. I don't see the problem. From a player's perspective they effectively don't exist. From a developer's perspective these are people who are inevitably going to quit anyway and so are nearly irrelevant to profit. How relevant they are to profit depends on how long they play before they quit. If they play for a few years, then quit, they are quite relevant to profit. Especially if, on average, they make up a goodly chunk of the player base.
"I don't see the problem. From a player's perspective they effectively don't exist." So why should a player complain about them? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
auraofblade
Kid's Logistics Inc
7
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 04:52:00 -
[166] - Quote
I'm a total noob and full carebear to boot (Trying to fix that! Honest!) but I'm honestly rather confused about the whole High vs Null etc. argument. Is the fact that I mine stuff physically preventing you from flying around and blowing up ships? If I make a choice to segregate myself from the rest of the community, am I somehow bringing the entire EVE community down? And inversely, if you like suicide ganking my barge, are you truly causing carebears everywhere to unsub en-masse?
Unless my actions are in direct, intentional conflict with yours, how on earth am I ruining your game experience? And even if they are ruining your experience...isn't this EVE, where s*** is supposed to happen? Are we all not supposed to deal with the s*** and HTFU? Or is the vocal minority just a pack of hypocrites holding different signs? |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
17
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 05:28:00 -
[167] - Quote
CAOD as a metaphor; why safety is also harmful to the long-term fun of high sec residents.
auraofblade wrote:If I make a choice to segregate myself from the rest of the community, am I somehow bringing the entire EVE community down? Yes. I explained it several times and I dislike repeating myself. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Prekaz
the gentlemen's corporation
29
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 07:01:00 -
[168] - Quote
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8669/stopd.jpg |
Wescro
Sons of Korhall Mining Krispy Kritters Alliance
291
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 07:25:00 -
[169] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ultimately, the issue is not whether people like to play solo or not. People can play how they choose - sandbox, ya know?
So Malcanis, if you make it to the CSM will you tirelessly advocate for me to be able to fly a Titan on a day 1 alt? Can it also be free and invincible? It's how I want to play, and this is a sandbox isn't it? *stomps foot and pouts*
On a more serious note, you called me out over my signature once before, so I'm curious exactly how you define the sandbox. To me, the word sandbox certainly doesn't imply a magicbox where you get everything you want and get to play absolutely any way you like with no restrictions or impediments. James 315-á-áis the only pro-sandbox candidate running for CSM 8. Resist the theme-park invasion from dying MMOs like WoW! Keep the only sandbox MMO alive! Vote 315 4 CSM8!!! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7951
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 07:31:00 -
[170] - Quote
Wescro wrote:Malcanis wrote:Ultimately, the issue is not whether people like to play solo or not. People can play how they choose - sandbox, ya know? So Malcanis, if you make it to the CSM will you tirelessly advocate for me to be able to fly a Titan on a day 1 alt? Can it also be free and invincible? It's how I want to play, and this is a sandbox isn't it? *stomps foot and pouts*
They can play how they choose within he parameters of the game. One of what Tippia calls "Malcanisism's" is that Sandbox means you are entitled to attempt whatever you want, not that you're entitled to succeed.
Wescro wrote:On a more serious note, you called me out over my signature once before, so I'm curious exactly how you define the sandbox. To me, the word sandbox certainly doesn't imply a magicbox where you get everything you want and get to play absolutely anyway you like with no restrictions or impediments.
See above. If people want to try to play EVE like a solo game, then more power to them. They're perfectly entitled to do so. Personally I think it's a waste and that they're missing out on everything that makes EVE worthwhile, but it's no skin off my nose as long as CCP don't modify core game mechanics to enforce their decision (as I specifically said in the post that you quoted but for some reason decided to miss out from your quote) Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1064
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 07:39:00 -
[171] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Players that want to be left alone, that donGÇÖt want to interact, these are not CCPGÇÖs core audience. These are short-term players at best.
Citation needed. No, seriously, show me the chart(s) that proves this claim.
Poetic Stanziel wrote:LetGÇÖs be honest. The PvE in EVE is terrible. ItGÇÖs lacks any sort of challenge. ItGÇÖs repetitive. ItGÇÖs not immersive. ItGÇÖs boring as hell. People that want to play PvE and nothing else, who want no interaction with other people unless it is on their terms, these people are not long for this game.
Yet there are entire player corps filled with these sorts of people. I should know, I help run one of them. And that's before the NPC corp lifers come into the picture... I've seen some of them running on eight years and up and still in their starter NPC corp. Not what I'd call "short term players." They must have good reasons or they wouldn't be doing it. I'm guessing one of those reasons is that they're perfectly happy right where they are... even after nearly a decade.
Poetic Stanziel wrote:The only thing that will get those players to stay is the PvE, and EVE is never going to have PvE that can challenge the World of Warcrafts, or the Guild War 2s, or the Lord of the Ring Onlines, or the Teras
Other than the fact that you could train a monkey to level-grind in any of those games, and as soon as people realize that then China will get a strongly worded letter from the UN about gold farms & animal rights abuse.
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Those anti-sandbox people, they create nothing, they give nothing to the game, nobody even knows they exist, except for their complaining.
If they don't interact with anyone how can they be complaining. Which is it? EvE Forum Bingo |
Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
291
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 08:57:00 -
[172] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Wescro wrote:Malcanis wrote:Ultimately, the issue is not whether people like to play solo or not. People can play how they choose - sandbox, ya know? So Malcanis, if you make it to the CSM will you tirelessly advocate for me to be able to fly a Titan on a day 1 alt? Can it also be free and invincible? It's how I want to play, and this is a sandbox isn't it? *stomps foot and pouts* They can play how they choose within he parameters of the game. One of what Tippia calls "Malcanisism's" is that Sandbox means you are entitled to attempt whatever you want, not that you're entitled to succeed. Wescro wrote:On a more serious note, you called me out over my signature once before, so I'm curious exactly how you define the sandbox. To me, the word sandbox certainly doesn't imply a magicbox where you get everything you want and get to play absolutely anyway you like with no restrictions or impediments. See above. If people want to try to play EVE like a solo game, then more power to them. They're perfectly entitled to do so. Personally I think it's a waste and that they're missing out on everything that makes EVE worthwhile, but it's no skin off my nose as long as CCP don't modify core game mechanics to enforce their decision (as I specifically said in the post that you quoted but for some reason decided to miss out from your quote)
Ah, thanks for clarifying. "People can play the way the like" is quite broad and doesn't make the distinction between success and failure, and it's an argument I often hear from people who want any kind of non-consensual pvp to be eliminated from EVE.
E: And I've read enough of your campaign thread to know that''s not what you advocate. =P James 315-á-áis the only pro-sandbox candidate running for CSM 8. Resist the theme-park invasion from dying MMOs like WoW! Keep the only sandbox MMO alive! Vote 315 4 CSM8!!! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7955
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 11:21:00 -
[173] - Quote
Wescro wrote:
E: And I've read enough of your campaign thread to know that''s not what you advocate. =P
So... how about that sig, then? Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Haseo Antares
Corollary Forest Fairytail.
24
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Posted - 2013.03.04 14:08:00 -
[174] - Quote
Came expecting a bad article. Leaving satisfied.
There is no problem. Some people simply have far too much time on their hands and whine about how others choose to spend their own free time. Here is a thought; play eve for fun, not to solve hypothetical "impending" internet spaceship crisis. Unless this is for some sort of research project...very little good will come from stressing over something like this.
I love eve and its community...but I sure as hell am not stressing over how you guys 'n' "gals" choose to enjoy being internet spaceship captains.
Edit: As I pressed the post button I realized that I contradicted myself. I will rectify this by not giving a damn. *exits thread stage left* We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode whatn++ you just said. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1455
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 14:28:00 -
[175] - Quote
While I find Poetic's stuff to be hit or miss he's right on the mark here. And he discribed people like me perfectly: Quote:I need to differentiate between your normal EVE carebear and the anti-sandbox player. There are players who do spend the majority of their time in PvE pursuits, who tend to avoid PvP, and who are long-term players. What makes these players different from the anti-sanbox crowd is that they understand and accept that EVE is a game of interaction. They understand that other players may come along at any time to knock down some section of their sandcastle. Their acceptance is why they remain. They relish the extra danger, the unknown, the unpredictability of the players around them. The PvE is still boring as hell, but itGÇÖs spiced up with the unknown variable that is the rest of the playerbase. IGÇÖm am totally cool with these people. These are carebears I respect. These are dudes who get involved with the game, who interact with other players, who are involved in the social fabric of the game.
That said, i will make one quibble. One man's boring is another man's relaxing after work gameplay. I did my 1,437 (yea, it's a mad eup number) True Creations Research Center last night with about 30 of my best friends who I mostly hadn't met till I X'd up in TVP chat lol. Same for lvl 5s and null sec anoms i do. I LIKE it, and it's a mistake to believe that because poetic thinks it's boring that it IS boring.
It's not.
i find minind to be some incredible mind numbing the 1st thing i do when i dock in a pod (and thus get a free noob ship) is take that mining more off and trash it lol, just on principle. But some people like actual mining so good on them.
Poetic is right in that it seems like the game makers are going more and more towards catering to people who won't be happy and won't stay no matter how much you coddle them. This is bad.
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Bi-Mi Lansatha
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.03.04 14:52:00 -
[176] - Quote
"...Those anti-sandbox people, they create nothing, they give nothing to the game, nobody even knows they exist, except for their complaining..."
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Skeln Thargensen
The Scope Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 14:56:00 -
[177] - Quote
why doesn't he just say solo players? the risks solo players take in low sec and null are massive due to lack of intel, making PvE in highsec versus low or null the difference between night and day.
that's why solo players are more likely to engage in fw in low sec because there's both free intel from the militia channel and gatecamps get decimated if they poach the low sec/high sec gates. also, no tedious split between PvE and PvP focus, you can run the plexes in PvP fits and there's just a few rats to blap rather than waves of them. there's a compelling game of cat and mouse to be played with pirates and incentive to stand your ground. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Sentamon
717
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 15:09:00 -
[178] - Quote
I too can join a 100,000 man coalition and then lecture solo players about PvP and risk. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 15:33:00 -
[179] - Quote
It's not a good article. It's the same crap he always spews. Yes it's easy to agree with his words on the surface but he doesn't cite anything factual. It's nothing more populus drivel. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1455
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 15:40:00 -
[180] - Quote
auraofblade wrote:I'm a total noob and full carebear to boot (Trying to fix that! Honest!) but I'm honestly rather confused about the whole High vs Null etc. argument. Is the fact that I mine stuff physically preventing you from flying around and blowing up ships? If I make a choice to segregate myself from the rest of the community, am I somehow bringing the entire EVE community down? And inversely, if you like suicide ganking my barge, are you truly causing carebears everywhere to unsub en-masse?
Unless my actions are in direct, intentional conflict with yours, how on earth am I ruining your game experience? And even if they are ruining your experience...isn't this EVE, where s*** is supposed to happen? Are we all not supposed to deal with the s*** and HTFU? Or is the vocal minority just a pack of hypocrites holding different signs?
Boy are you missing the entire point of the "high sec vs everyone else not just null sec" argument.
it's not the non-high sec players claiming anything is being "destroyed" or whatever by mining. It's high sec people claiming that people (who see the stark imbalances created by the way high sec interacts with the rest of the game) simply "don;t like the way they play".
This is a defensive response that people have in EVE and real life when they think some key self interest is at risk, it boils down to trying to dismiss opposition by simply claiming the person voicing the concern is "evil" and there for not credible.
It's a big lie. No one gives a damn whether you mine or mission or not. I mostly PVE and no one has ever said "man, you're bad because you don't pvp". What people don't like about high sec dwellers isn't the activity, it's the messed up welfare queen like entitlement/eternal victim mentality too many of them display.
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