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Kahn Moquil
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Posted - 2005.08.12 11:50:00 -
[61]
The lottery has been a joke from it's very start, although the only people that laughed because of it, are the ones who won a bpo. Putting up bpo's for auction makes it even a bigger joke. Unless you put out so many extra bpo's, that it becomes indeed impossible for the extremely rich to buy them all.
Twelve new bpo's put for auction per year? There's an afwul lot of different tech II bpo's out there, so chances are there won't even be a cap recharger II print amongst them. If there is, it'll be easy for the current bpo holders to buy the new print, and keep their monopoly. If CCP decides to auction the more monopolized prints first, but does it by one print a month, it's going to take a while to bring all T2 prices down.
No, if they're going to do this, it should be an auction for RP. Perhaps make it so RP's can be sold, but at least that way the people with R&D agents will have a shot at a bpo, no matter how rich or poor they are.
By auctioning for isk, someone who has never trained a single science skill can become the lucky owner of a T2 print. R&D is the most under developped career available as it is, don't make that worse, try to figure out a way to make it better.
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StellarSheep
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Posted - 2005.08.12 12:35:00 -
[62]
CCP should introduce t2 bpc`s for RP points and add some BPO`s from time to time. And there should be RP market when u can buy bpc`s for points and dont wait for agent offer that is mostly crap. Agent runners should be happy. Producers should be happy. And there will be no longer monopoly in t2 producing. ________________________________________________
StellarSheep Fury Corporation member
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2005.08.12 12:38:00 -
[63]
Keep the lottery system as it is. When the bp's are released give the corps/characters X amount of time to research them and sell the products on and then put the BP's on general release like the T1 BP's. This will stop the hoarding and the megacorps outbidding everyone while at the same time the people who have invested their time in the research still have the opportunity to make money on the items. It makes no sense to me that player corps have the T2 bp's and the NPC corps will never get them.
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Ja'kar
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Posted - 2005.08.12 12:58:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Ja''kar on 12/08/2005 13:01:01 Your talking like the rich players just found their isk or something- yes the rich will have an advantage, but they always will, it is the way these games r- IÆve been broke most of my eve time- thatÆs not the rich corps fault- just lay off the hardworking ppl who made the billions. I say gl to them and any of the smaller ppl who want to bid, I hope u get somewhere...
however having said that I hope CCP release enough to ease the choke hold and am really hoping the mod's is open to all, but thatÆs another thread
CCP should introduce t2 bpc`s for RP points and add some BPO`s from time to time.
yes why not- give the mission grinders something to work for- I think it would be good to have multiple routes to a bpo
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.12 13:31:00 -
[65]
What I don't understand is this. If CCP wants to get more BPO's out to the players, why go through any kind of auction at all? Why not just drop all these extras BPs into the lottery machine and be done with it?
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Kahn Moquil
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Posted - 2005.08.12 13:36:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Quanteeri What I don't understand is this. If CCP wants to get more BPO's out to the players, why go through any kind of auction at all? Why not just drop all these extras BPs into the lottery machine and be done with it?
Because even CCP know that the lottery is the most horrible thing they ever came up with
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.12 13:50:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Quanteeri on 12/08/2005 13:55:13 Yeah, but why rock the boat with speculation and myth? If they don't have a decent plan, why set out a birdy singing about auctions? Why not just seed extra development into the (wholely agreed upon busted) lottery system, and be done with it, at least in the mean time.
I mean, why not just dump these exact same BPO's they are talking about auctioning off into the lottery system, which does at least disperse the items throughout the communitywell enough, with no bearing on financial status?
The research system as a whole could use work to become more interesting, yes, but statistically the distribution method (lottery) is sound.
Though, I agree, they do need to increase distribution after a while since no technology is kept secret for ever.
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Kahn Moquil
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Posted - 2005.08.12 13:57:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Quanteeri Edited by: Quanteeri on 12/08/2005 13:52:30 Yeah, but why rock the boat with speculation and myth? If they don't have a decent plan, why set out a birdy singing about auctions? Why not just seed extra development into the (wholely agreed upon busted) lottery system, and be done with it, at least in the mean time.
I mean, why not just dump these exact same BPO's they are talking about auctioning off into the lottery system, which does at least disperse the items throughout the communitywell enough, with no bearing on financial status?
The research system as a whole could use work to become more interesting, yes, but statistically the distribution method (lottery) is sound.
They did that already, they increased the number of bpo's seeded into the lottery from 8 to at least 20. Continueing to build on a broken system, won't cure the system. Putting extra bpo's up for auction, is actually just that, adding stuff to an already broken system, without fixing it.
I must admit that I don't have any better ideas though, but it is my firm belief that auctioning bpo's for isk will only break the system further.
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.12 13:59:00 -
[69]
Right, but if they plan to auction once a month, why not simply reseed the lottery once a month?
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Maggot
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Posted - 2005.08.12 14:02:00 -
[70]
Ja'kar, I have nothing against wealthy players. I just dont think they should be given any further power. If they want to buy them from the open market thats fine, but at least let the small corps have a chance at them first through the lottery.
Yes, the lottery has not been kind to some. But I have yet to see an alternative that does not give megacorps or grinders too much of an advantage. The philosophy of eve was that power gaming was to be avoided and up to now it has done a pretty good job. Of course it can never be eradicated.
If CCP's vision is that tech 2 should eventually level out like tech 1 then by all means distribute new BPO's, but do it through the lottery or even this RP trading idea that has been suggested.
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Raven
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Posted - 2005.08.12 15:56:00 -
[71]
This is a great idea. Demand for certain T2 items such as ships is already so high that the prices are seriously inflated. In addition then it forces the megarich corps that want to keep their monopoly to spend a few billions to keep it, thereby draining their resources and eventually dedicated semi rich players will most likely get the chance to get the BPO that they want and sell. It would sure be better than the occasional noob that just sells his BPO to the next rich guy that comes along for a silly price. It's quite obvious that when some T2 items have 2400% markup that something is obviously wrong with the market. More BPO's and BPC's given by research agents would go a long way in eliminating that problem.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:31:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 12/08/2005 16:33:19 Why not let players fill in a form upon registering; 'I'm a rich pampered paperweight of human DNA and expect to be handed everything ingame too'
I mean why change the way things are in a computergame, eBay 4tw as you kids say.
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Fidelis Deus
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:58:00 -
[73]
I approve this idea.
As other people have pointed out, it soon becomes unprofitable to contiunally buy up BPOs that you already have.
If this still becomes a problem with megacorps buying up BPOs, CCP could simply opt to change the system to a faster rate - BPOS bimonthly.
This is an excellent isk think to counter rampant inflation in this game.
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:26:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Fidelis Deus I approve this idea.
As other people have pointed out, it soon becomes unprofitable to contiunally buy up BPOs that you already have.
If this still becomes a problem with megacorps buying up BPOs, CCP could simply opt to change the system to a faster rate - BPOS bimonthly.
This is an excellent isk think to counter rampant inflation in this game.
Exactly.
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Derran
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:18:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Maggot Dreadful idea as these will all be bought up by the very rich corps. Money comes to money and the T2 lottery distribution was the only example where small corps could have a hope of competing with the big boys. This advantage will be wiped out in a couple of months. There are some very rich corps out there and this aution would just serve to increase their market dominance.
I agree. I hope this one gets totally reworked the way it is thought up on the present drawing board. Even now the lottery only gives the small timers a slight chance. The larger corps I think seed the lottery with alts just to increase their chances anyway. Not that I blame them but it still has that effect. I would like a BPC effort where the R&D agent would offer BPCs of varying run amounts with varying research on it, depending on the agent quality and agent level.
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Gun Kata
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:33:00 -
[76]
Tech 2 BPO Auction = Customised Event for Rich Corps
imo
"I have seen everything now." "Yeah? Have you ever seen a man eat his own head?" |
Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:11:00 -
[77]
I like the idea 8) We`ll have more HACs then 8)
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Plekto
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Posted - 2005.08.13 02:31:00 -
[78]
The real solution is to impliment reverse engineering. Make it cost a decent amount of mooney and destroy the item you are creating, as well as taking a long time -at least 2-4 times what the item takes to make a BPC of.
What you get a a result is a BPC of any item in the game(!) that's good for 2-6(based upon a new extremely hard skill's level, obviously - 1+skill level)) runs.
This would break the backs of the horders and make it possible to get BPCs of almost anything in the game for a price.
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Heptameron
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Posted - 2005.08.13 06:23:00 -
[79]
An auction would be bad.... there is already far too much control on the t2 market by a couple of super corps. There should be more ways of getting your hands on a t2 BPO. I like the reverse engineering idea.... 'special' drops from a 0.0 big npc spawn that would need this and specific skills to do it. I also think npc haulers should drop better loot, ok beef up their protection but could occassionally contain a BPO.
An auction will still be owned by the super rich, remember were talking about 5 bill minimum. And of course those guys who do dedicate their time to this type of agent have a right to do so just as others have a right to strap on guns and go shoot s**t. It's the way they choose to play the game. To take away possibly many months of gameplay in one foul swish of the ccp change stick would lose players for sure. ---------------------------------------------- Director Octavian Vanguard
We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.08.13 06:58:00 -
[80]
Alright, i only read the first couple pages, and since it seemed to just be the same thing getting re-hashed i decided to skip ahead, so if this is answered then ok.
So, everybody seems to be saying that this is bad because it will just put more money into the hands of the rich people. What nobody seems to be noticing is that the money is already there! If corp a, b, and c all own a winbutton bpo, who cares if one of them owns two? Also, whoever bought it is now several bil behind it's competitors, so if there's nothing to gain from it it makes sense to let it drop into the hands of sombody else who isn't strong enough to threaten you anyway.
Also, more bpo's = lower prices, or atleast lower waiting lists. If more bpo's were going up for auction and big corps like NAGA were getting them then awsome, i don't have to wait as long to get a new hac or whatever.
So in short, i can see how this might not help the non rich people much, but i also don't see how it would hurt, and i see tons of places where it would help even the non rich.
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Heptameron
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Posted - 2005.08.13 07:41:00 -
[81]
No it doesn't necessarily mean more and cheaper t2 items. It means they will control the market even more than they do now and be able to continue to dictate the prices.
More randomness in the way BPO's hit the market it needed to create genuine competition. By keeping them only in reach of those that already have profited from them by means of a lottery will just ensure that it stays that way. But more seriously will basically wipe out a particular type of gameplay (not that i have ever even bothered with these kind of agents :p). Those that have already invested their time in research agents will either leave the game or have to reskill. Those who want to get into that side of the game will have nothing to really aim for because unless you have a shedload of cash actually getting a BPO will be impossible.
I think an RP based auction would be better served to the game and the community and give a reward for those who have spent their time doing the work.
But also by introducing random drops (weighted by risk of course :p) and particularly in 0.0 sectors (CCP for some time have been trying to push people out into 0.0) it would give other players a real chance to get lucky. Of course those that are doing the RP based missions should have more of a chance but at least we may have smaller corps managing to get in on the market and take some of the controlling factor away from the bigger corps. ---------------------------------------------- Director Octavian Vanguard
We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by.
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Kael Jorensen
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Posted - 2005.08.13 07:53:00 -
[82]
I agree the RP point auction would be a nice reward for the agent runners but I think in the end alot of those BPOs will still end up in the hands of the big corps. They will approach the winners and offer them large sums of isk for the BPOs and there you go. Either way you do it, it will take a few months before you really start to see the effects of the new BPOs on the markets.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.08.13 08:00:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Heptameron No it doesn't necessarily mean more and cheaper t2 items. It means they will control the market even more than they do now and be able to continue to dictate the prices.
More randomness in the way BPO's hit the market it needed to create genuine competition. By keeping them only in reach of those that already have profited from them by means of a lottery will just ensure that it stays that way. But more seriously will basically wipe out a particular type of gameplay (not that i have ever even bothered with these kind of agents :p). Those that have already invested their time in research agents will either leave the game or have to reskill. Those who want to get into that side of the game will have nothing to really aim for because unless you have a shedload of cash actually getting a BPO will be impossible.
I think an RP based auction would be better served to the game and the community and give a reward for those who have spent their time doing the work.
But also by introducing random drops (weighted by risk of course :p) and particularly in 0.0 sectors (CCP for some time have been trying to push people out into 0.0) it would give other players a real chance to get lucky. Of course those that are doing the RP based missions should have more of a chance but at least we may have smaller corps managing to get in on the market and take some of the controlling factor away from the bigger corps.
We all agree that it would be better if the new bpo's went to sombody else, but it wouldn't change anything if they did just go to the rich people.
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Maggot
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Posted - 2005.08.13 08:36:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Necrologic
Originally by: Heptameron No it doesn't necessarily mean more and cheaper t2 items. It means they will control the market even more than they do now and be able to continue to dictate the prices.
More randomness in the way BPO's hit the market it needed to create genuine competition. By keeping them only in reach of those that already have profited from them by means of a lottery will just ensure that it stays that way. But more seriously will basically wipe out a particular type of gameplay (not that i have ever even bothered with these kind of agents :p). Those that have already invested their time in research agents will either leave the game or have to reskill. Those who want to get into that side of the game will have nothing to really aim for because unless you have a shedload of cash actually getting a BPO will be impossible.
I think an RP based auction would be better served to the game and the community and give a reward for those who have spent their time doing the work.
But also by introducing random drops (weighted by risk of course :p) and particularly in 0.0 sectors (CCP for some time have been trying to push people out into 0.0) it would give other players a real chance to get lucky. Of course those that are doing the RP based missions should have more of a chance but at least we may have smaller corps managing to get in on the market and take some of the controlling factor away from the bigger corps.
We all agree that it would be better if the new bpo's went to sombody else, but it wouldn't change anything if they did just go to the rich people.
yes it would, it would make life harder for small corps as they would be competing against the big boys for sales. |
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