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Nivo Green
Wormhole Hunters
1
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Posted - 2013.03.04 05:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
How many people have noticed that there is only one dedicated shield tanking hybrids platform for battleships ( Rokh)?
I gather this has more to do with caldari only using hybrids as a secondary platform, and them being among the only big shield tankers ( with minmatar shield tanking a few ships).
Is there any where in the game where this combination could be realized or am I ignorant to some very viable shield tanked hybrid battleship? And I'm not talking about shield vindicators, shield tanking something that has the intention of being armor tanked laid out in its slots does not make it a dedicated shield tank ship. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
2201
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Posted - 2013.03.04 06:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
On the other hand we wont have a dedicated armor missile battleship until the changes for the typhoon hit. The Drake is a Lie |
Nivo Green
Wormhole Hunters
1
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Posted - 2013.03.04 06:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:On the other hand we wont have a dedicated armor missile battleship until the changes for the typhoon hit.
Forgot about this too. Seems there are a few holes in the battleship class role list.
Although its pretty easy to shift minmatar ships around for tanking type / missiles and projectiles
Given the limited factions that shield tank there doesn't seem to be room in the game to insert a hybrid shield battleship besides the rokh, which is primarily about damage projection. I supposed there is only one laser shield battleship too. There is a lot more variety in armor tanked ships than shields at first glance |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
2201
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Posted - 2013.03.04 06:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Also the scorpion is the only battleship that has any ewar bonuses
tbh we need 4 each of BCs and BSes both
2 combat 1 attack and 1 ewar
Right now there's a mostly a gap in the ewar line up for anything larger than a cruiser
Also couldn't we have two marauders per race?
Perhaps have them use the hull that makes the most sense for them
Second Kronos: Drone boat, Domi hull, Hyperion becomes Black ops but retains the exact same stats as the original Sin Second Golem: Rail boat, Rokh hull Second Paladin: Missile boat, since amarr don't have a clear missile line in T1 this can just be a blakc and blue abaddon Second Vargur: Missile boat, typhoon hull, maelstrom becomes new black ops and retains Panther stats The Drake is a Lie |
Alara IonStorm
4369
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Posted - 2013.03.04 06:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
I always liked the idea of Mark II T1 Vessels sort of like how the Onyx and the Eagle use the Moa Model a Mark II Ship would do the same but Racial Mark II's would not like up in class or tier.
An example a Naga Mk II that has 8 Missile Hardpoints, a RoF Bonus and a Missile Velocity Bonus or a Scorpion with a 5% Shield Resist Bonus and a 5% Hybrid Damage Bonus making it a big Merlin.
While say Gallente would have an Armor Rail Megathron Mk II as a range ship with 8 turrets and an Optimal + Tracking Bonus or a Vexor Mk II with a 25m3 Drone Bay 5 Blaster Turrets and a 7.5 Armor Rep Bonus.
Alternate idea's CCP and players might like but could not do. The problem with filling a role in a Racial lineup currently is that while one race might have more designs that work with X Ship type you are limited by other races need for an equal ship even if there is not much demand.
Cruisers for an example.
1 Logistic 1 EWAR 1 Attack 1 Combat
Now the Devs might want an active tanker for the Gallente Cruiser lineup, but with the Drone Vexor and the Fast Attack Thorax they are now out of options. The only solution now would be costly, IE: design 4 new ships 1 for each race then find a role for them.
For a Mark II Ship instead you use the same model and fill the gap in ship number elsewhere.
Missile Naga Active Vexor HAM Maller Opt Bonus Arty Tempest
Each race gets a new ship but X race like has more options in say Battleships while Y Race is Cruiser Heavy and Z Race is all about the Frigates.
Rail Merlin Rail Megathron TD / Neut Bonused Geddon with Missile and 175m3 Dronebay Remote Tracking / Sebo Scythe |
Nivo Green
Wormhole Hunters
1
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Posted - 2013.03.04 06:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
There are tons of combinations of weapon systems and roles missing in every class besides cruisers it seems. Its difficult to figure out whether or not filling those roles is what CCP wants or not because while cruisers are designed to be the most versatile hull, and battleships/battle cruisers are designed to be more specialized attack dps/tanky vessels, there exists things like the scorpion which is an oddity among battleships.
Is the scorpion an odd one out? or is it a hint that CCP thinks battleships can be versatile like cruisers and not just be better more expensive versions of their smaller counterparts?
The best game mechanic in place for allowing versatility among the battleships, and all of the ship classes is the tech 3 paradigm. From what I know, and have read CCP's stance on making tech 3 anything beyond the strategic cruisers is that they won't or don't plan to. This is probably because they never really balanced tech 3's or established exactly what they wanted from tech 3. Hopefully we will see CCP has found the direction they want to progress tech 3 into when they get around to balancing tech 3 ships. Tech 3 battleships could be very versatile and if balanced right not gain stats that would make them better than their more specialized tech II and tech I counterparts.
The concept that tech 3 battleships would be so absurdly expensive and imbalancing comes from the current status of tech 3 strategic cruisers i believe, which is damaging the level at which such ideas can even be explored. |
Jensaro Koraka
Hidden Squid Society
18
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Posted - 2013.03.04 07:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nivo Green wrote:How many people have noticed that there is only one dedicated shield tanking hybrids platform for battleships ( Rokh)?
I gather this has more to do with caldari only using hybrids as a secondary platform, and them being among the only big shield tankers ( with minmatar shield tanking a few ships).
Is there any where in the game where this combination could be realized or am I ignorant to some very viable shield tanked hybrid battleship? And I'm not talking about shield vindicators, shield tanking something that has the intention of being armor tanked laid out in its slots does not make it a dedicated shield tank ship.
***Title updated for the more general topic of battleship roles*** Why is there another thread on this and why aren't either of them in ships and modules? "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1064
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Posted - 2013.03.04 07:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oh there is a bit of variety, but only when you move into the pirate classes (go figure) and start multi-training. But yes, so far as it looks now, you've got one drone battleship (Domi) and all the rest are really just "Giant Turrets and Armor Tank" as the rule of the thumb (unless you're Caldari, then it's Giant Missiles and ASB Shield Tank")
In the end almost every battleship is just a static artillery platform with slightly different paint jobs. The variety is more cosmetic than actual. EvE Forum Bingo |
Nivo Green
Wormhole Hunters
1
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Posted - 2013.03.04 08:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Oh there is a bit of variety, but only when you move into the pirate classes (go figure) and start multi-training. But yes, so far as it looks now, you've got one drone battleship (Domi) and all the rest are really just "Giant Turrets and Armor Tank" as the rule of the thumb (unless you're Caldari, then it's Giant Missiles and ASB Shield Tank")
In the end almost every battleship is just a static artillery platform with slightly different paint jobs. The variety is more cosmetic than actual.
This is the sad truth. Would be interesting to hear if CCP actually wanted battleships to be just that and nothing more, or if they are open to versatility in the ship class. Thats where I think the scorpion is a great example of the variety that a battleship can offer in different roles, yet not compete for the same role as the falcon. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2132
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Posted - 2013.03.04 08:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Shield tanked hybrid battleships:
Rokh Hyperion* Navy Dominix
* 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount is just another spelling of "this is a shield tanking ship"
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
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Cyprus Black
The Learning Curve.
684
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Posted - 2013.03.04 09:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
You should get a domi, fit it with long range sentry drones, a micro jump drive, drone upgrade mods, and neuts in the highslots.
It absolutely destroys people. Warp to known gatecamp at 100k. Deploy sentries. Jump away 100k. Enemies get hammered by the sentries while flying 200k towards you. They can either stop at the halfway point to deal with the sentries (to which you deploy more from your current location) or they skip them and come after you. If they choose the latter, you jump away again. Trolling is like art. Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
85
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Posted - 2013.03.04 11:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Navy Domi. Hyperfleet Industries is selectivly recruiting. Enquire today. Killboard
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Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
200
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Posted - 2013.03.04 11:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nivo Green wrote:How many people have noticed that there is only one dedicated shield tanking hybrids platform for battleships ( Rokh)?
There are alternatives, but none of them uses Caldari Battleship training. Kinda sad, since Rokh on its own is an amazing ship. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1014
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Posted - 2013.03.04 11:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
I am missing a shield tanking drone boat with dedicated lasers. Right now, Gallente has to fill in but it's sub-optimal. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |
monkfish2345
D'reg The Methodical Alliance
21
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Posted - 2013.03.04 14:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
i just hope we can go back to the good old days when battleships were a desirable ship to fly. we're finally moving away from this situation where BC's have pretty much been the class of choice for all situations, except super blobs.
then again that's like saying i'd like a reason for fleet commanders to fly command ships. |
Nivo Green
Wormhole Hunters
1
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Posted - 2013.03.04 19:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
monkfish2345 wrote:i just hope we can go back to the good old days when battleships were a desirable ship to fly. we're finally moving away from this situation where BC's have pretty much been the class of choice for all situations, except super blobs.
then again that's like saying i'd like a reason for fleet commanders to fly command ships.
Yeah certainly, hopefully we will see this become a reality with the coming ship balancing. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2612
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Posted - 2013.03.04 19:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Who needs more than 1 shield tanked BS when you have the the mother******* Rohk?!?! Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Alara IonStorm
4370
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Posted - 2013.03.04 19:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
monkfish2345 wrote:i just hope we can go back to the good old days when battleships were a desirable ship to fly. we're finally moving away from this situation where BC's have pretty much been the class of choice for all situations, except super blobs.
then again that's like saying i'd like a reason for fleet commanders to fly command ships. 2 of best things they can do for Battleships.
1. Decrease 100mn MWD usage proportionally to other ships. Let them run for 4-6 minutes not 2. 2 Increase Scan Res too a 145-170 average. Now it takes 7-9 seconds to lock a Shield BC. 145-170 would bring lock times to around 8 seconds for a Cruiser, 5 for a Battlecruiser, 10+ for a Frigate. Very reasonable. |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
274
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Posted - 2013.03.04 19:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
I have always thought we could do with one more BS for each race, bring in EWAR for the others and Caldari can have something else added to their types of DPS. "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves." |
Alara IonStorm
4371
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Posted - 2013.03.04 19:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Turelus wrote:I have always thought we could do with one more BS for each race, bring in EWAR for the others and Caldari can have something else added to their types of DPS. Or just add a second Scorpion for Attack and a second of the other 3 for EWAR. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13072
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Posted - 2013.03.04 19:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: GǪnow if only they could pronounce it correctly. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5479
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Posted - 2013.03.04 21:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: GǪnow if only they could pronounce it correctly.
"Maby just a cin-der block is better" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13074
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Posted - 2013.03.05 00:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tippia wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: GǪnow if only they could pronounce it correctly. "Maby just a cin-der block is better" Exactly.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1025
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Posted - 2013.03.05 07:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:Also the scorpion is the only battleship that has any ewar bonuses
tbh we need 4 each of BCs and BSes both
2 combat 1 attack and 1 ewar
Wait, are you saying every race should have the same role ships? I'll have to disagree especially for ewar. While I do not think ewar needs to be nerfed, I do think if it was available to every race it would become too pervasive requiring a nerf. That it's primarily limited to Caldari if fine. If you want to use it, cross train. If you're not willing to cross train, you can't have it.
What you're suggesting really makes the game too homogenous. Each race should have their own specific advantaged roles. Now, if only Gallente had one. HTFU!...for the children! |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
308
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Posted - 2013.03.05 07:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
And a new ship type with 8 slots on each power level that can permacloak even when locking on a target and firing. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
2203
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Posted - 2013.03.05 08:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Xercodo wrote:Also the scorpion is the only battleship that has any ewar bonuses
tbh we need 4 each of BCs and BSes both
2 combat 1 attack and 1 ewar
Wait, are you saying every race should have the same role ships? I'll have to disagree especially for ewar. While I do not think ewar needs to be nerfed, I do think if it was available to every race it would become too pervasive requiring a nerf. That it's primarily limited to Caldari if fine. If you want to use it, cross train. If you're not willing to cross train, you can't have it. What you're suggesting really makes the game too homogenous. Each race should have their own specific advantaged roles. Now, if only Gallente had one.
I said ewar, not ECM
I want a tracking disrupting, sensor damping and target painting wet of BSes to sit along side the scorpion
hardly homogeneous
also can we get a bit of a TP buff pewees? :3 They're uses are fairly limited tbh and can't stand lone very well without the aid of a web or something.... The Drake is a Lie |
baltec1
Bat Country
5484
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Posted - 2013.03.05 08:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:
Wait, are you saying every race should have the same role ships? I'll have to disagree especially for ewar. While I do not think ewar needs to be nerfed, I do think if it was available to every race it would become too pervasive requiring a nerf. That it's primarily limited to Caldari if fine. If you want to use it, cross train. If you're not willing to cross train, you can't have it.
What you're suggesting really makes the game too homogenous. Each race should have their own specific advantaged roles. Now, if only Gallente had one.
Name a battleship with a sensor damp bonus. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1027
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 14:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:Xercodo wrote:Also the scorpion is the only battleship that has any ewar bonuses
tbh we need 4 each of BCs and BSes both
2 combat 1 attack and 1 ewar
Wait, are you saying every race should have the same role ships? I'll have to disagree especially for ewar. While I do not think ewar needs to be nerfed, I do think if it was available to every race it would become too pervasive requiring a nerf. That it's primarily limited to Caldari if fine. If you want to use it, cross train. If you're not willing to cross train, you can't have it. What you're suggesting really makes the game too homogenous. Each race should have their own specific advantaged roles. Now, if only Gallente had one. I said ewar, not ECM I want a tracking disrupting, sensor damping and target painting wet of BSes to sit along side the scorpion hardly homogeneous also can we get a bit of a TP buff pewees? :3 They're uses are fairly limited tbh and can't stand lone very well without the aid of a web or something....
Ah yeah, ewar =! ecm. My bad.
HTFU!...for the children! |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
636
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Posted - 2013.03.05 15:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Roime wrote:Shield tanked hybrid battleships:
Rokh Hyperion* Navy Dominix
* 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount is just another spelling of "this is a shield tanking ship"
Sniper Rails shield mega hurts his mom too, unfortunately locking time is sooooooooooooo looooooooooooong... (1xl asb +2sebo 1TC and lows full of DMG MODS!!!) *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
512
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Posted - 2013.03.05 15:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
I SAW HYPERION SHAPED BLACK OPS...
OOOOOHHH YEAASSSS
p.s. Battleship roles will be gained by Black Ops, I think they will take on the roles of their recon counterparts. |
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