Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 40 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
630
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 22:14:00 -
[121] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:baltec1 wrote: A single system in caldari high sec has more industry slots than entire regions of 0.0
That doesn't sound broken to you?
Doesn't null require infrastructure be built by players? I'll grant you that the current capacities available are lacking, but in the end we will still likely have that issue even if the capacity issue is corrected because not all entities will likely be interested in investing in it. You can literally spend a trillion ISK and not have a region with more slots than the best hi-sec systems. Let's reverse the situation: imagine that it cost a trillion ISK to rent the same hi-sec slot capacity as could be obtained in a single 0.0 system. Would that be OK with you? One quick thing to point out. Highsec is amongst other things a good starting point and home to smaller and newer individuals and entities for a variety of activities including industry. The barrier of entry is intentionally low to be inclusive of a wide array of players.
In regard to this particular comparison my comment was simply to point out that a single metric being used as a meter stick was probably a bad overall sticking point since, as one part is highly player activity influenced, there is no guarantee that that specific situation would be reversed even if the means to do so were more obtainable.
All that said I conceded the current imbalance in that statement and more directly a few posts later. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
503
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 22:52:00 -
[122] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:baltec1 wrote: A single system in caldari high sec has more industry slots than entire regions of 0.0
That doesn't sound broken to you?
Doesn't null require infrastructure be built by players? I'll grant you that the current capacities available are lacking, but in the end we will still likely have that issue even if the capacity issue is corrected because not all entities will likely be interested in investing in it. Not to mention that any given Caldari highsec system on any given day probably has more people in space than whatever nullsec region you want to look at. VFK sees more traffic and trade than most high sec systems. 50th percentile, maybe.
Even a total backwater of highsec like Derelik has plenty of systems with multiple times the activity, and a couple that might match the activity levels of Deklein as a whole.
I'm just not seeing where nullsec has a large enough market to justify much more than shipping a tiny portion of highsec's production out there.
If the market grows to the point where the jump freighter pilots have trouble keeping up, then nullsec might need a buff to industry, but I just really don't see that happening without the addition of a lot of scalable content to nullsec that doesn't seem to be in the works. http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3905
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 22:56:00 -
[123] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Just because you sucked at securing your NPC space doesn't mean my corp and many others didn't manage it.
The simple fact that we DID bring the 20 carriers + support needed to do our business easily disproves your argument.
The simple fact that we DID need to bring such firepower, to do what in sov null sec would be a regular delivery of some stuff to sell, easily disproves that NPC null sec risk is comparable to sov null sec in any way.
Edit: also, not every alliance is composed of thousands upon thousands of warm bodies to carry around. But hey, your blob-tastic approach to anything in game easily explains your sympathy to brute force solve with numbers what should not need them. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3492
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 23:57:00 -
[124] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:One quick thing to point out. Highsec is amongst other things a good starting point and home to smaller and newer individuals and entities for a variety of activities including industry. The barrier of entry is intentionally low to be inclusive of a wide array of players. Highsec needs to be the best for THE NEWBIESSSSSSSSS I am a nullsec zealot. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
630
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 00:06:00 -
[125] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:One quick thing to point out. Highsec is amongst other things a good starting point and home to smaller and newer individuals and entities for a variety of activities including industry. The barrier of entry is intentionally low to be inclusive of a wide array of players. Highsec needs to be the best for THE NEWBIESSSSSSSSS Accessible doesn't necessarily mean best. And newbs aren't the only ones ever short on resources or isk. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1883
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 00:21:00 -
[126] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Fearghaz Tiwas wrote:[ Further reason for why industry in Hi-sec should be taxed. You pay CONCORD and the factions for protection.
tax high sec, I can't fund my account with PLEX. Those like me, quit playing. CCP suffers massive revenue loss and likely goes bankrupt. EVE ceases to exist. How does that make the game better? You seriously overestimate your worth and the number of people "like you". There are over 100k players that lives in null (it's probably far above that but that's irrelevant), almost everyone I've met has an alt in hisec. Be it a mere pricechecker, up to Incursion runner or a full time miner. Another thing, not everyone in hisec deals with industry, and you highly underestimate the ability for people to adapt, especially newer players that haven't been too attached to certain aspects of the game yet.
So no, even if everyone "like you" left, CCP goes bankrupt is the least possible scenario that could happen. "I'd rather have other players-áget shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3905
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 01:12:00 -
[127] - Quote
Sarah Schneider wrote: You seriously overestimate your worth and the number of people "like you". There are over 100k players that lives in null (it's probably far above that but that's irrelevant), almost everyone I've met has an alt in hisec. Be it a mere pricechecker, up to Incursion runner or a full time miner. Another thing, not everyone in hisec deals with industry, and you highly underestimate the ability for people to adapt, especially newer players that haven't been too attached to certain aspects of the game yet.
So no, even if everyone "like you" left, CCP goes bankrupt is the least possible scenario that could happen.
CCP understimated how many would quit over aurum store and imposing IP usage fees on independent web masters and developers.
Those who are in hi sec are there because (for one reason or another) don't want or cannot "adapt". While you might have 100k players in null sec, 350k are in hi sec, just losing a little fraction, say 50k, would be around -10% revenue a year.
Let's see how CCP would take another drop, the last time they had to lay off 20% of their work force.
But hey, since spamming 1000000000000 photocopy nerf threads did not involve any CCP response, it obviously means that spamming one more WILL get CCP to reply! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4130
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 01:53:00 -
[128] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Plus, a reply with "You seriously overestimate your worth and the number of people "like you" shows an elitist attitude worth of the worst BoB. It seriously reminds me my country "radical chich" left-oid, sniffy politicians. It's not elitism, it's pointing out that the typical crybaby kneejerk response in these threads about unsubscribing is nothing more than a desperate attempt by a handful of people to hold onto game imbalance which benefits them.
They, like you, completely fail to see the big picture here, and instead of making reasonable replies they divert away from the topic with idiocy such as "hurf durf you're too lazy to make industry work in null" or "herp derp sov null is ubersafe, risk vs. reward lolz" or "highsec needs amazing industrial capacity because newbies need that industrial capacity since highsec ships blow up so much more than null" or "durrr nullsec = third world country and nobody manufactures there" and a whole host of other fallacies.
You're seriously arguing to preserve a system whereby even the best player effort, risk, and expenditure in player-owned space is still inferior to facilities that are risk-free, superior in number and capabilities, available from the start, and virtually free of charge, available in the safest area of the game.
That's like saying that a five-star $$$$ restaurant should serve you grilled-cheese sandwiches with canned and microwaved tomato soup while the local soup kitchen should always feature a four-course meal with wine pairings, filet mignon, asparagus, etc.
I don't think it's even possible to dumb this down even further, but some of you people are remarkeably still not getting it because you're so afraid of the combination of the words "nerf" and "highsec" you become completely incapable of rational and intelligent thought and instead revert to the mental equivalent of a toddler who won't share his toys.
Jesus Christ, people... Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 01:54:00 -
[129] - Quote
I think nullsec industry should be better than high sec because it might attract more players and corporations into those areas. |
Kelvan Hemanseh
Hole Exploitation Inc.
34
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:14:00 -
[130] - Quote
Yes. |
|
Zhade Lezte
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
90
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:51:00 -
[131] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Fearghaz Tiwas wrote:[ Further reason for why industry in Hi-sec should be taxed. You pay CONCORD and the factions for protection.
tax high sec, I can't fund my account with PLEX. Those like me, quit playing. CCP suffers massive revenue loss and likely goes bankrupt. EVE ceases to exist. How does that make the game better?
Keep sov null in its current state, everyone funds their account with PLEX in increasingly safe highsec (let's ignore the implication of this on PLEX prices just to keep this going for a while). Those like me get bored, quit playing. CCP suffers massive revenue loss as amazing fleet battles and tales of massive sov wars become a thing of the past. Without these epic tales no new blood is drawn into the game, the dull droning of mining lasers and mission agents in highsec is not enough to keep players engaged and subscribers drop that are not replaced by anyone new. EVE ceases to exist.
We can all play the ~touching my playstyle will kill eve~ card. Let's not.
Especially when the changes being suggested are not anywhere near the hyperbolic levels you have touted. You probably would be able to afford your PLEX, you just might have to work moderately harder at that. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4133
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:52:00 -
[132] - Quote
I really doubt most casual highsec players would even notice the difference, frankly.
They're just so gripped with terror at the idea of a nerf. Frankly I blame CCP for not nerfing high sec more often, otherwise they'd be used to it and wouldn't complain as much. Low and Null have had to content with various nerfs over the years, and the last major nerf to highsec that I can think of was to incursions, half of which was rolled back because people cried too much. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Zhade Lezte
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
90
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 04:04:00 -
[133] - Quote
To be fair I think that "rolled back because they cried too much" is a bit much since some of the incursion nerfs were kind of ridiculous (such as making it virtually impossible to lower sansha influence), and income of a group activity like that really should be a bit above their obvious competitor of highsec missioning.
Much like industry in a PVP zone should be a bit more lucrative than industry in a safe zone, even if it is made closer to the guaranteed safety of the safezone via, oh goodness, group activity. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1036
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 04:09:00 -
[134] - Quote
Domina Trix wrote:I think nullsec industry should be better than high sec because it might attract more players and corporations into those areas.
Sugartits, if better ore, better ice, better pi, better rats, better bounties, better drops and moon goo hasn't done it do you really think better industry will do it?
Fact is when your alliance overlords can kick you out at a moment's notice or a massive enemy fleet shows up destroying everything you've invested in your production infrastructure, no amount of better is going to make it moar better than hisec.
Besides, the only way to allow for the scale of production that occurs in hisec but in nullsec is to turn nullsec into hisec and hisec into nullsec because there's no way you're going to move that much material through without losing significant percentages of it first. HTFU!...for the children! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4133
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 04:14:00 -
[135] - Quote
In fact, chances are a nerf to highsec industrial capacity sufficient enough to cause nullsec industrial alts to do their production closer to home would probably free up a lot more industrial slots than are currently available. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Zircon Dasher
141
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 04:16:00 -
[136] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote: Fact is when your alliance overlords can kick you out at a moment's notice destroying everything you've invested in your production infrastructure, no amount of better is going to make it moar better than hisec.
Maybe if you were not useless to the alliance 'overlords' they wouldn't kick you out. What if that changed? Would it be worth it then? |
Dark Reignz
Four-Q
9
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 04:22:00 -
[137] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Plus, a reply with "You seriously overestimate your worth and the number of people "like you" shows an elitist attitude worth of the worst BoB. It seriously reminds me my country "radical chich" left-oid, sniffy politicians. It's not elitism, it's pointing out that the typical crybaby kneejerk response in these threads about unsubscribing is nothing more than a desperate attempt by a handful of people to hold onto game imbalance which benefits them. They, like you, completely fail to see the big picture here, and instead of making reasonable replies they divert away from the topic with idiocy such as "hurf durf you're too lazy to make industry work in null" or "herp derp sov null is ubersafe, risk vs. reward lolz" or "highsec needs amazing industrial capacity because newbies need that industrial capacity since highsec ships blow up so much more than null" or "durrr nullsec = third world country and nobody manufactures there" and a whole host of other fallacies. You're seriously arguing to preserve a system whereby even facilities gained using the best player effort, risk, and expenditure in player-owned space is still inferior to facilities that are risk-free, superior in number and capabilities, available from the start, and virtually free of charge, available in the safest area of the game. That's like saying that a five-star $$$$ restaurant should serve you grilled-cheese sandwiches with canned and microwaved tomato soup while the local soup kitchen should always feature a four-course meal with wine pairings, filet mignon, asparagus, etc. Free of charge of course, with no dress code. I don't think it's even possible to dumb this down even further, but some of you people are remarkeably still not getting it because you're so afraid of the combination of the words "nerf" and "highsec" you become completely incapable of rational and intelligent thought and instead revert to the mental equivalent of a toddler who won't share his toys. Jesus Christ, people...
What is desperate, is the endless tears from nullbears who want hi sec slain. Your post is pretty much typical. I will add again that you nullbears need to look at the MAP / Activity .... those bright lights in Hi Sec, a true representation of "where its at" will die if you get your sad greedy ways and by that, I mean, as other have said. Mass Quitters.
Drop it please, thanx, much appreciated! |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1036
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 04:22:00 -
[138] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Mr Kidd wrote: Fact is when your alliance overlords can kick you out at a moment's notice destroying everything you've invested in your production infrastructure, no amount of better is going to make it moar better than hisec. Maybe if you were not useless to the alliance 'overlords' they wouldn't kick you out. What if that changed? Would it be worth it then?
You replied while I was editing and amending. I doubt the changes will affect your opinion. So, I will say that I don't live in null. There's a reason for that. Primarily it has to do with people telling me how I should play the game in order to be useful to them so they don't kick me out of "their" space. I get enough of that BS at work. Last I checked, Eve was a game, not a job and I will cowtow to noone.
That you nullbears want to make nullsec into hisec having your cake and eating it too is just sad and pathetic. You want mass scale industry go to hisec. You want everything else, take your pick, null, ls or w-space. HTFU!...for the children! |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3494
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 04:33:00 -
[139] - Quote
Dark Reignz wrote:What is desperate, is the endless tears from nullbears who want hi sec slain. Your post is pretty much typical. I will add again that you nullbears need to look at the MAP / Activity .... those bright lights in Hi Sec, a true representation of "where its at" will die if you get your sad greedy ways and by that, I mean, as other have said. Mass Quitters.
Drop it please, thanx, much appreciated! It is a good day to die.
It is also a good day to be protected by CONCORD. Choose CONCORD, choose not-explosions. I am a nullsec zealot. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4133
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 04:37:00 -
[140] - Quote
Dark Reignz wrote:What is desperate, is the endless tears from nullbears who want hi sec slain. Your post is pretty much typical. I will add again that you nullbears need to look at the MAP / Activity .... those bright lights in Hi Sec, a true representation of "where its at" will die if you get your sad greedy ways and by that, I mean, as other have said. Mass Quitters.
Drop it please, thanx, much appreciated! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
|
Theangryhobo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
159
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 04:40:00 -
[141] - Quote
I think your signature is much better from yesterdays, if I do say so myself, Alvaria.
I don't think I've ever been called a nullbear before, but I take offense to that. Those bright lights in highsec are made by those who think EVE is meant to cater to you, because they have yet to learn the cold, hard truth those of us down here have, that EVE will grind you up and spit you out with no remorse, unless you actually work for what you get. . |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
The Pilots Who Say Ni
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 04:58:00 -
[142] - Quote
I honestly believe it's a no brainer that nullsec industry should be better then hisec industry. Not just marginally better.... I mean "better."
Although I don't mind the current state of Eve Online right now, I feel it could be much improved if this change was to take place. Take a look for yourself and take a roam from High to low, then onto null sec. There is a much higher ratio of pilots who prefer to spend 24/7 in high sec without ever even thinking about venturing into low or null sec!
I think for those 24/7 high sec players, if they wish to stay their... let them. But please keep in mind; "More isk = more risk!" Currently, I feel this isn't the case because of how reliable hi-sec space industry is.
I think it depends how CCP wants their game to be played out;
- Do they want more activity in nullsec? Not just a group of Alliances who have Blued each other and suddenly everything is peaceful and fine. Or, would they prefer to have different Alliances and Corporations going to war for control over a particular Mineral/Gas?
Sorry, I'm still a 2 month old noob. But just my opinion anyways.
It's just common sense tell me that industry should be greater for High, Low and Null sec respectively.
It would be great to see this change implemeted and see how New Eden would change over time. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1083
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 05:03:00 -
[143] - Quote
Primary Me wrote:So here we go, should nullsec industry be the equal or better than hisec or is the open, risk free hisec industrial machine necessary to keep the forges of Eve burning? Is it simply risk v reward, or more complex than that?
I say make nullsec industry match highsec industry, not the other way around.
EvE Forum Bingo |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4134
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 05:09:00 -
[144] - Quote
Nobody is saying to make highsec industry match nullsec industry as it currently is. THAT would be even more ******** than what we currently have. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2345
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 05:38:00 -
[145] - Quote
Primary Me wrote:
A factor or question that has come up a number of times, but then lost in the depths of economic arguments, is whether nullsec should be on par or better than hisec for industry, which, thinking about it, is a question that needs to be answered first, before discussing any balancing that might need to be done.
Null industry has the potential to be as good as, or better, than high sec right now. No changes are needed.
The problem is not with the mechanics. It's with the people who choose to live there. They are just not the type that want to settle in and actually set up an industrial base. They want to shoot stuff.
If they insist on whining that it is somehow easier in high sec then they should move there and stop flooding the forum with tears. For a bunch of elite PVP Gods, they sure spend a lot of time crying over having to make something of themselves in the area of the game that does nothing to hold their hands.
Null is what you make it guys. If you can't make it, then move back to high sec and stop your bellyaching.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3494
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 05:40:00 -
[146] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Nobody is saying to make highsec industry match nullsec industry as it currently is. THAT would be even more ******** than what we currently have. Yeah, highsec is well-developed and well-patrolled by CONCORD, something like that is impossible. I am a nullsec zealot. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7981
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 07:01:00 -
[147] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:baltec1 wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:baltec1 wrote: A single system in caldari high sec has more industry slots than entire regions of 0.0
That doesn't sound broken to you?
Doesn't null require infrastructure be built by players? I'll grant you that the current capacities available are lacking, but in the end we will still likely have that issue even if the capacity issue is corrected because not all entities will likely be interested in investing in it. Not to mention that any given Caldari highsec system on any given day probably has more people in space than whatever nullsec region you want to look at. VFK sees more traffic and trade than most high sec systems. 50th percentile, maybe. Even a total backwater of highsec like Derelik has plenty of systems with multiple times the activity, and a couple that might match the activity levels of Deklein as a whole. I'm just not seeing where nullsec has a large enough market to justify much more than shipping a tiny portion of highsec's production out there. If the market grows to the point where the jump freighter pilots have trouble keeping up, then nullsec might need a buff to industry, but I just really don't see that happening without the addition of a lot of scalable content to nullsec that doesn't seem to be in the works.
Perhaps that might be something to do with the fact that so many "0.0 players" actually keep more characters in hi-sec than they do in their own space? Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7981
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 07:02:00 -
[148] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Primary Me wrote:
A factor or question that has come up a number of times, but then lost in the depths of economic arguments, is whether nullsec should be on par or better than hisec for industry, which, thinking about it, is a question that needs to be answered first, before discussing any balancing that might need to be done.
Null industry has the potential to be as good as, or better, than high sec right now. No changes are needed.
No it doesn't.
There.
Aren't.
The.
Slots.
Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3496
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 07:16:00 -
[149] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Primary Me wrote:
A factor or question that has come up a number of times, but then lost in the depths of economic arguments, is whether nullsec should be on par or better than hisec for industry, which, thinking about it, is a question that needs to be answered first, before discussing any balancing that might need to be done.
Null industry has the potential to be as good as, or better, than high sec right now. No changes are needed. No it doesn't.There. Aren't. The. Slots. General Discussion sure reaches its potential for ******** arguments. In fact I think it's growing in terms of ability to be ********. Like, literally, you're retarding the progress of EVE Online by such displays of stupidity. I am a nullsec zealot. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3905
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 07:58:00 -
[150] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: It's not elitism, it's pointing out that the typical crybaby kneejerk response in these threads about unsubscribing is nothing more than a desperate attempt by a handful of people to hold onto game imbalance which benefits them.
The only handful is here, is some dozens of bored industrialists who (in another thread) found making 8B a month is too little and the same dozen of super-rich mega dominating large null sec alliance talking heads pretending their life is so bad and ugly.
Were they the perma-forgotten low sec players, they'd have credibility to back their sobbings. Where they NPC null sec players, the deadly risk they run every day would appear an appropriate prize.
But no, those who cry are the second most spoiled brats after hi seccers. I mean, only hi seccers are worse!
James Amril-Kesh wrote: They, like you,
You speak to the guy who proposed to remove hi sec completely except for the starter systems. So keep the "you" for your own sermons. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 40 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |