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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
92
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Posted - 2011.10.14 06:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
There are two CSMs in this game.
The one that the players voted for. And EVE University.
The recent wardec policy changes are proof of EVE University, via Kelduum Revaan, being the other de facto CSM. CCP caters to their needs, without any oversight by the players. They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. They can turn it on or off at their whim.
The only single danger left for them is the suicide gank. Any other method of PvP against them is fruitless. The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
408
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Posted - 2011.10.14 06:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
In just because..... Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
44
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Posted - 2011.10.14 06:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Why worry about Eve-Uni? No one really cares what you think about Eve-Uni. because you've gone on about them over and over again. Don't you think it's getting a bit old? How long can you hold a grudge for?
I've never been part of the Uni. I just think it's just a corp that helps people new to Eve, which is great cause Eve isn't the easiest thing to just play without learning how to do all the different things in the game, and you feel like it's your job to give them a hard time about not much at all.
I'd like to see you try running a corp thats meant to train new players while getting heaps of wardecs. I don't think it's a simple thing unless you want to teach people how to fight during a wardec.
get over it. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
571
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Posted - 2011.10.14 06:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
19
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Posted - 2011.10.14 06:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aw, can't afford the 1B/week fee? Seems like you need to mine more blue ice. |
Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
297
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
I love Eve-u. Big fan. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate Not Usually Killing Everyone.
94
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Not really any one cares and besides, this is just making EVE Uni into an honorary ISD based corp hehe The Drake is a Lie |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
63
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
EVE U is cool. They need a mascot for all their games though. How about the hyena. PS seems qualified. Ask them. They may spring for a fur suit.
Anyone that war decs EVE U should use mental floss more frequently. There may even be a few scrip bottles in the med chest that require some attention.
Why not just run a bus over the school kids in the crosswalk. That'll give you a sense of power!
On second thought. Floss.
To her it doesn't matter much.-á It's chasms have been leapt, and she leans upon the skepticism of her chosen fate. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
92
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:Anyone that war decs EVE U should use mental floss more frequently. There may even be a few scrip bottles in the med chest that require some attention.
Why not just run a bus over the school kids in the crosswalk. That'll give you a sense of power! Half their members are carebear lifers.
Besides, no one in this game should be able to recuse themselves from the Sandbox.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
149
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Why worry about Eve-Uni? No one really cares what you think about Eve-Uni. because you've gone on about them over and over again. Don't you think it's getting a bit old? How long can you hold a grudge for?
I've never been part of the Uni. I just think it's just a corp that helps people new to Eve. Which is great cause Eve isn't the easiest thing to just play without learning how to do all the different things in the game, and you feel like it's your job to give them a hard time about not much at all.
I'd like to see you try running a corp thats meant to train new players while getting heaps of wardecs. I don't think it's a simple thing unless you want to teach people how to fight during a wardec.
get over it.
/me feeding something bad and knowing it wont change.
Liked for truth. I don't have a problem with CCP looking beyond CCP and caring about how new players are welcomed into EVE.
OP isn't a nice man. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
88
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Besides, no one in this game should be able to recuse themselves from the Sandbox.
Exactly this. You should not be able to reap the rewards of a corporation and its infrastructure while effectively making yourself immune to all but the wealthiest of people in the game. Not even a corporation that does so much supposed "good."
Isn't one of the most common pieces of advice given to nubbins, "don't buy/create that which you are unwilling or unable to protect" ? "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
28
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
big fan of your posting. don't ever stop.
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
92
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ciar Meara wrote:Liked for truth. I don't have a problem with CCP looking beyond CCP and caring about how new players are welcomed into EVE. Then maybe CCP should do their job in retaining players on their own. Set-up their own NPC training corp run by GMs. Rather than giving special favours and privileges to a player-run corporation.
All CCP is doing is setting up a carebear haven that is free from most of the harshness of New Eden.
Unless EVE University has to start kicking people from the corp after 6-8 months of membership (minus a small select teaching staff), then this corporation is simply going to morph from newbie training corp to carebear haven, since nearly all forms of PvP can now be avoided within the confines of EVE University.
Quote:OP isn't a nice man. I'm a sweetheart.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
934
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 07:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think the warshield mechanic is silly, but it's a waste of the GM's time trying to police accusations involving it.
If the Uni becomes too soft and weak to the point that they aren't adequately training their newbies in the arts of war and murder, larger entities who can afford the fees can simply dec them and cut them to shreds.
There's three major newbie organizations left in this game: GSF, TEST and E-Uni.
We (GSF and TEST) train our youth in deep null because they grow up hard and the fear of loss is bled out of them immediately. Presumably the Uni will learn to have 'war weeks' where they intentionally drop their war-shield such that the combat aspect of EVE isn't denied to their students.
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Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
403
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Is agony unleashed still going? Cant remember if its them or eve-uni that just teaches people to spam ecm everywhere. GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ |
Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's nice to ~teach~ 1000+ people while collecting 7% tax ...
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Thorn Galen
The Scope Gallente Federation
71
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
@Op.
That's funny. I recall that very recently, Eve University went to the rescue of Chribba's Sov. To me, that's a good thing and shows a willingness to fight for the right reasons. They were there. So was the Northern Coalition. Where you there ? You don't care ?
You claim they are getting an unfair advantage by using an exploit which now, apparently everyone else can and does use. How does that give them the advantage ? Everyone can use the same mechanism.
You mention some statistics without giving a source of the types of members they have in the Corp. (x%) newbies, (x%) older players - meaningless numbers without factual data. Why are you so upset over this ? You keep posting and reposting the same story.
You want to Wardec them but cannot afford it or what ? What is your reason - and it cannot be that they are being "protected" because the mechanism is open to all. Go on, give us the facts, backed by proper data.
Else it's all just butthurt hokum.
The door is not real. |
Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Unless EVE University has to start kicking people from the corp after 6-8 months of membership
I didn't know EVE-U curriculum is 6-8 months long,
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ArmyOfMe
TEDDYBEARS. Excuses.
21
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Protecting corps and alliances like this is silly and should be removed asap. However, talking about eve uni as an example is just r3tarded, cause i dont think there is any other corp in eve that has had as many war dec's against them. At least try and find some other targets every once in a while so eve-uni actually have time to train up players in between all the dec's.
Oh, and why the f'ing hell is r3tarded censored??????
CCP, for the love of god boost the deimos..... |
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
OP is creepy. Like "stalker ex" creepy. |
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Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote: You claim they are getting an unfair advantage by using an exploit which now, apparently everyone else can and does use.
Except, you know, people who choose not to exploit.
Quote: How does that give them the advantage ? Everyone can use the same mechanism.
Are you asking here how an exploit gives an advantage over anyone, who chooses to play without exploits? Obvious answer is that this is the very reason one uses and exploit, because it gives him/her advantage, or otherwise he/she wouldn't bother and take the risk of being banned.
Are you suggesting that the proper answer to exploits is to exploit yourself? If yes, ok, we'll leave at that, because apparently there's not point talking with you on any topic whatsoever, if no, why are you then telling that everyone can exploit themselves?
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non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
49
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't mind if they get wardecs, but there needs to be a balence to it. War all the time is a bit much. It wouldn't be easy to train people other things while at war. And I don't believe they should or do have an unfair advantage that other corps don't/can't have.
I just think OP needs to put this pointless grudge to rest. Drama queens need to have breaks, don't they?
On a side note: Goons and Test are big teaching corps? For some reason I never thought of Test and Goons as teaching new players. Maybe they do, but I think +¡t's a very small part of what they really do and not their main focus. |
Thorn Galen
The Scope Gallente Federation
72
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 08:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Karim alRashid wrote:Are you suggesting that the proper answer to exploits is to exploit yourself? If yes, ok, we'll leave at that, because apparently there's not point talking with you on any topic whatsoever, if no, why are you then telling that everyone can exploit themselves?
The Op has made it clear the the GM's say it is not an exploit, or am I wrong ? That is how I read the original post in the first thread. No, I am not for exploits but the Op is clearly concerned about this being an exploit. I am saying everyone who can, or needs to, uses the mechanism which has now been pronounced as not being an exploit. Unless CCP rules otherwise, clearly it remains a non-exploit which causes pain to some.
Sounds to me like someone wants to farm many easy kills from a Corp who are not willing to be at war all the time ?
Whatever, I'm done in this thread. It all sounds like a load of butthurt to me.
Peace out. The door is not real. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
79
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 08:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:There are two CSMs in this game. The one that the players voted for. And EVE University. The recent wardec policy changes are proof of EVE University, via Kelduum Revaan, being the other de facto CSM. CCP caters to their needs, without any oversight by the players. They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. They can turn it on or off at their whim. Their decshield is 19 corporations strong, and they've been allowed to use an exploit to avoid the CONCORD costs of that decshield. The only single danger left for them is the suicide gank. Any other method of PvP against them is fruitless. Have you ever noticed that you are the only person who cares about what E-Uni is doing? And since you got kicked out of the uni for being a huge troll how do you expect anybody to take you seriously?
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
93
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote:The Op has made it clear the the GM's say it is not an exploit, or am I wrong ? They are avoiding 72 billion ISK per month in CONCORD fees running their 19 corp decshield. That "exploit" is not commonly known, and apparently EVE University wishes that to remain a "sekrit". The exploit was given to them by CCP. EVE University can remain war free at no little cost to themselves (which I would call an exploit, even if CCP has given them special privilege to make use of it.)
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
153
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:I think the warshield mechanic is silly, but it's a waste of the GM's time trying to police accusations involving it.
If the Uni becomes too soft and weak to the point that they aren't adequately training their newbies in the arts of war and murder, larger entities who can afford the fees can simply dec them and cut them to shreds.
There's three major newbie organizations left in this game: GSF, TEST and E-Uni.
We (GSF and TEST) train our youth in deep null because they grow up hard and the fear of loss is bled out of them immediately. Presumably the Uni will learn to have 'war weeks' where they intentionally drop their war-shield such that the combat aspect of EVE isn't denied to their students.
There's a difference between GMs having to deal with edge cases, and making it legal to create corps and alliances, blatantly, to simply drive up the cost of wardecs.
You also seem to think that if someone DOES pay the exorbiant costs of the wardec, then the corp won't just hop alliances to remove the wardec within 24 hours. Which is now within the rules.
This isn't a change whose only impact is making the wardec costs less, it is a change that makes PVP opt-in within highsec.
As for thinking the Uni will "drop their dec shield for a wardec week" - hah. Really.
I almost wish E-Uni WERE given special treatment, because this change has allowed every carebear corp in highsec to use the same exploits. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Goddess Ishtar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:EVE University can remain war free at no little cost to themselves Good for them. Any corp that puts that much effort into helping newbies should get the same protection.
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
93
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:And since you got kicked out of the uni for being a huge troll how do you expect anybody to take you seriously? Apparently a lot of people are peeved that high sec is now a PvP-free zone (minus suicide ganking), all because EVE University lobbied hard for some sort of change to the wardec mechanics to make their lives easier.
This is what CCP gave them (and the rest of high-sec benefits as a side-effect) -- exploits are now legal.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
93
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Goddess Ishtar wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:EVE University can remain war free at no little cost to themselves Good for them. Any corp that puts that much effort into helping newbies should get the same protection. You think all of this is so that the Uni can run a few tackling and d-scan classes?
No. It's about being able to run missions and incursions without interruption. It's about mining and industry. Avoid wars has little at all to do with newbs. It's for the benefit of their mission/incursion runners and their industrialists. More than half their membership is well beyond the newbie stage of their careers.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Darian Reymont
EVE University Ivy League
11
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Deary me, it's getting hard to keep track of all these threads of yours, Poetic!
As much as I like the sound of being a part of the shadow CSM, I feel the need to once again clarify some of the misinformation Poetic is spreading.
Firstly, we never asked for these policy changes. We have pressured CCP to look at wardec mechanics for many years now, but to put it frankly we're just not that important. It's possible that these policy changes were intended as a bone to distract us, or perhaps CCP truly did mean it as a favour to us, but we weren't directly consulted and would much rather see an improved wardec system than have to use a decshield.
Secondly, the idea that we dislike PvP is flat out ridiculous. Our desire for wardec improvement does not come from wanting to be immune to PvP, it comes from war in Empire space being pointless and terrible, as well as our being consistently wardecced for the majority of a year by people who have no intention of fighting. We are constantly PvPing both in the traditional UniBlobs and small gangs in low and NPC nullsec, and have recently completed the first of what should hopefully become regular wardec events that provide actual fighting for everyone involved. We will also be using our decshield corps, which are now operated by what I consider to be official E-UNI Best Friends, to run wargames with our students. PvP training has never been a focus for E-UNI (due to there being several corporations out there who already offer excellent PvP training), but if anything it is currently on the increase, not the opposite.
With regards to our player base, yes we have a sizeable group of experienced pilots, most of whom function as staff in some form (be it administrative, teaching, mentoring or military). Poetic is correct (for once) in that we are not solely a "newbie" corp, but train anybody and everybody who has a desire to learn, so we also have many experienced pilots who are actively taking part in classes and events. Finally, even with the decshield, the NPC corps are still the best "carebear haven" available.
I understand that you're angry, Poetic. I'm genuinely sorry for the hurt we clearly caused you, but this is going beyond silly now. Do you even believe what you're writing? Director of Human Resources EVE University |
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
93
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Darian Reymont wrote:Our desire for wardec improvement does not come from wanting to be immune to PvP, it comes from war in Empire space being pointless and terrible, as well as our being consistently wardecced for the majority of a year by people who have no intention of fighting. These non-fighting enemies do not force you to remain docked. You're own rules force you to do that. Don't blame the war mechanics on your own WSOP. Your rules are your own worst enemy. And then you use those rules you inflict upon yourselves as a reason for CCP to develop rules to satisfy your needs.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote:The Op has made it clear the the GM's say it is not an exploit, or am I wrong ?
What GMs say is that they do not consider this an exploit as far as their work is concerned, all they say is that they will not punish the exploit.
It's still an exploit, a use of game mechanics in unintended ways in order to gain an advantage and this is the truth.
And truth is not decided by majority vote.
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Darian Reymont
EVE University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Darian Reymont wrote:Our desire for wardec improvement does not come from wanting to be immune to PvP, it comes from war in Empire space being pointless and terrible, as well as our being consistently wardecced for the majority of a year by people who have no intention of fighting. These non-fighting enemies do not force you to remain docked. Your own rules force you to do that. Don't blame the war mechanics because of your own WSOP. Your rules are your own worst enemy. And then you use those rules that you inflict upon yourselves as a reason for CCP to develop more rules to satisfy your needs.
But the WSOP has nothing to do with why we don't like the current wardec mechanics. We can scrap the WSOP whenever we like so it's hardly "inflicted" upon us, we choose to operate it. We can't do anything about the mechanics besides ask CCP to look at them, which is all we've been doing for years now. Director of Human Resources EVE University |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
93
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
Darian Reymont wrote:But the WSOP has nothing to do with why we don't like the current wardec mechanics. We can scrap the WSOP whenever we like so it's hardly "inflicted" upon us, we choose to operate it. We can't do anything about the mechanics besides ask CCP to look at them, which is all we've been doing for years now. The WSOP has everything to do with all of the whining about faildecs coming from the University. Why would you even care about faildecs if it wasn't for your overly restrictive WSOP? If a wartarget wasn't attacking you, why would you even care? That would be great and fantastic, no? But it's not, because of your WSOP.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Darian Reymont
EVE University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2011.10.14 10:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
If somebody decs us and doesn't turn up at all then we don't use the WSOP. It's more often than not the kind of war where they will turn up just enough to be a threat to solo students still learning the ropes, but with no intention of actually fighting capable pilots. The whole exercise is pointless, as there are no win conditions or consequences for either side. It's a sort of harassment, which in a game like EVE would be fine, if there were mechanics in place for us to harass them back.
I'm not sure what your point is here, Poetic. You're saying we dislike wardec mechanics because of our own WSOP, which we have total control over? That we've pressurised CCP into changing their policies because that was... easier than changing our own, which we have subsequently changed anyway? Director of Human Resources EVE University |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
93
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 10:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Darian Reymont wrote:If somebody decs us and doesn't turn up at all then we don't use the WSOP. What a load of complete BS. Have you taken over as Propaganda Minister from that tool Irdalth? (You are better at it then he is. You should consider switching Director roles with him.)
You use the WSOP for every wardec (minus this last month). If a wardec turns into a faildec, you simply use a slightly less restrictive version of the WSOP known as the R-WSOP. But it's still pretty restrictive.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
147
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Posted - 2011.10.14 10:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:The WSOP has everything to do with all of the whining about faildecs coming from the University. Why would you even care about faildecs if it wasn't for your overly restrictive WSOP?
Why are you complaining about something that has no impact on your gameplay, unless you're one of the corps who wardecs the Uni simply to grief them by having them hoist themselves on their own WSOP petard?
If you can't afford the half-billion ISK a week to maintain a warded on the Uni, find someone else to warded. Is it really that hard? |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
93
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Posted - 2011.10.14 10:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:The WSOP has everything to do with all of the whining about faildecs coming from the University. Why would you even care about faildecs if it wasn't for your overly restrictive WSOP? Why are you complaining about something that has no impact on your gameplay, unless you're one of the corps who wardecs the Uni simply to grief them by having them hoist themselves on their own WSOP petard? If you can't afford the half-billion ISK a week to maintain a warded on the Uni, find someone else to warded. Is it really that hard? First of all, the Uni griefs itself. No one is forcing them to use their WSOP. They do that to themselves. I cannot force them to use their own WSOP, so how do you figure that's me griefing them?
Secondly, thanks to EVE University's lobbying of CCP, wardeccing any corporation is a complete waste of time now. All exploits to avoid wardecs are now legal.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
15
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Posted - 2011.10.14 10:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
This is not about EVE-Uni, it's a precedent and pandora's box.
Per usual, it'll need a lot of abuse of this mechanic (previously called exploit) and a lot of whining before this gets turned around by CCP. So all this posting and shouting is a GOOD thing. The more we shout about it, the more people reply to it how it's "not at all a bad thing" the more coverage it gets and the more people start to use it.
And once corporations start mass using this mechanic (previously called exploit) then finally CCP, the lumbering hulk that it is, will wake up, give it 2 seconds of attention and nerf it into the ground. So please, do keep posting, shouting and replying in threads like this and please, PLEASE, every corp should start using this mechanic (previously called exploit). That's the fastest way to get it taken care of.
And yes, the GM who allowed EVE-Uni to do this in the first place should be fired. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. |
Darian Reymont
EVE University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2011.10.14 10:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Darian Reymont wrote:If somebody decs us and doesn't turn up at all then we don't use the WSOP. What a load of complete BS. Have you taken over as Propaganda Minister from that tool Irdalth? (You are better at it then he is. You should consider switching Director roles with him.) You use the WSOP for every wardec (minus this last month). If a wardec turns into a faildec, you simply use a slightly less restrictive version of the WSOP known as the R-WSOP. But it's still pretty restrictive. No, we use the RSOP when there is a threat but it isn't deemed very serious, which is the majority of the faildecs we get these days. The full WSOP is only used during wardecs where there is a very real threat. If there is no threat at all, then we don't use any of the WSOP options and remain at a non-war but high alert status. This happens vary rarely, but it does happen (the last time was the recent war with Personal Training that started a week or two before the NSOP event and is currently ongoing). Furthermore, we're in the process of making more changes to the way we deploy the WSOP following the success of the recent NSOP event that should see even less use of the WSOP in future.
Also please stop insulting Irdalth, it's making you look even worse than you normally do. Irdalth is one of the nicest people in this game, not to mention one of the hardest working, and anybody who has spoken to him will tell you the same. That you somehow managed to fall out with him really speaks volumes. Director of Human Resources EVE University |
|
Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 10:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Darian Reymont wrote:Also please stop insulting Irdalth, it's making you look even worse than you normally do. Irdalth is one of the nicest people in this game, not to mention one of the hardest working, and anybody who has spoken to him will tell you the same. That you somehow managed to fall out with him really speaks volumes.
I have no vested interest in that part of the conversation nor am I taking sides in it but "friendly and helpful" doesn't somehow make one capable of being a good spokesperson. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
93
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 10:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Darian Reymont wrote:Furthermore, we're in the process of making more changes to the way we deploy the WSOP ... that should see even less use of the WSOP in future. That's hilarious. You don't need to change the way you deploy the WSOP so that there's less need for the WSOP. CCP did that for you. That's why you have 19 corporations decshielding you. And I'm sure there's a contingency to alliance hop if necessary. Since the University will never be involved in a non-consensual war again, there's no need to tinker with the WSOP. That's a thing of the past. For the University Museum. The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Orion GUardian
48
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 10:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
You Sir/Madam got a serious problem withy our stalker mentality.
If your arguments weren't so COMPLETELY "Eve-Uni is a villain" all the time perhaps some people would listen more to arguments that might even be valid.
If you made a thread about how the change in Rules changes the Highsec landscape due to wardec changes etc it would be a COMPLETELY different matter than "Eve-Uni this, Eve-Uni that blablabla"
You Sir/Madam really need to rethink your priorities because this thread is NOT about the change of GM-policies but because of your huge Ego trying to bash Eve-Uni PLEASE, just play the game its big enough to justignore EU |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
411
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 10:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
@Poetic
Dude. Your tweet bio is still showing "A student at EVE University, plying my trades in New Eden and learning as much as I can before I move on to other pastures."
Please make the appropriate corrections forthwith.
for Eve-Uni CEO
PS: Just sayin' Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
93
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 10:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:@Poetic
Dude. Your tweet bio is still showing "A student at EVE University, plying my trades in New Eden and learning as much as I can before I move on to other pastures." I shall. Made changes elsewhere. Forgot the Twitters.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
411
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 10:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:The Apostle wrote:@Poetic
Dude. Your tweet bio is still showing "A student at EVE University, plying my trades in New Eden and learning as much as I can before I move on to other pastures." I shall. Made changes elsewhere. Forgot the Twitters. For the record, I was following Helmar and saw you "lobbying".... Followed the link.
Word of professional advice if I would be so bold: CEO's don't usually get involved nor seek to reverse staff decisions without making the staff look rather poorly. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
93
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 10:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:For the record, I was following Helmar and saw you "lobbying".... Followed the link.
Word of professional advice if I would be so bold: CEO's don't usually get involved nor seek to reverse staff decisions without making the staff look rather poorly. I was lobbying Hilmar about what? The last time I tweeted to Hilmar was when he mentioned buffing up the CONCORD AI. I thought he was making joke. Turned out he was being serious.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
493
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 10:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
Vachir Khan wrote:Per usual, it'll need a lot of abuse of this mechanic (previously called exploit) and a lot of whining before this gets turned around by CCP. So all this posting and shouting is a GOOD thing. The more we shout about it, the more people reply to it how it's "not at all a bad thing" the more coverage it gets and the more people start to use it.
And once corporations start mass using this mechanic (previously called exploit) then finally CCP, the lumbering hulk that it is, will wake up, give it 2 seconds of attention and nerf it into the ground. So please, do keep posting, shouting and replying in threads like this and please, PLEASE, every corp should start using this mechanic (previously called exploit). That's the fastest way to get it taken care of. Give me ~35 days, and I'll have DecShield Alliance up and running from scratch.
I'm thinking of pricing it at 2M ISK to shed your wardec (obviously with a bulk discount if you get decced more than once in a month, because I'm a nice person) to cover the upkeep fee.
What do you think? Does it sound like a reasonable plan? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Darian Reymont
EVE University Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 11:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Darian Reymont wrote:Furthermore, we're in the process of making more changes to the way we deploy the WSOP ... that should see even less use of the WSOP in future. That's hilarious. You don't need to change the way you deploy the WSOP so that there's less need for the WSOP. CCP did that for you. That's why you have 19 corporations decshielding you. And I'm sure there's a contingency to alliance hop if necessary. Since the University will never be involved in a non-consensual war again, there's no need to tinker with the WSOP. That's a thing of the past. For the University Museum. You're correct of course, I worded things poorly. I should have said we were in the process of making changes, prior to finding out about CCP's policy changes. At this stage they are redundant, I suppose, though it does serve to highlight that we were not aware of these changes prior to the announcement.
For the record, E-UNI will not be alliance hopping. If somebody wants to pay up and dec us then we'll fight them, same as always. Hopefully anybody willing to stump up that much cash actually intends to fight, anyway. If not, we can try out those new WSOP policies.
Anyway the conversation is starting to loop, so I'm going to bow out at this stage. I'll reiterate some key points from E-UNI's perspective:
- We did not lobby CCP for these policy changes, nor were we aware of them before the announcement.
- We do not want any special treatment from CCP.
- We do not want to be immune to PvP (or even wardecs).
- We are (mostly) not evil!
Fly safe, New Eden. Director of Human Resources EVE University |
Orion GUardian
48
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 11:14:00 -
[50] - Quote
On a side note, could someone pelase elaborate what this Mechanic entails?
As far as I understodd some corporation creates a few ONe-Man corps and an Alliance with them to increase Wardec costs and then can even leave the alliance to get rid of the Wardec? Anything else? |
|
Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 11:45:00 -
[51] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:There are two CSMs in this game. The one that the players voted for. And EVE University. The recent wardec policy changes are proof of EVE University, via Kelduum Revaan, being the other de facto CSM. CCP caters to their needs, without any oversight by the players. They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. They can turn it on or off at their whim. Their decshield is 19 corporations strong, and they've been allowed to use an exploit to avoid the CONCORD costs of that decshield. The only single danger left for them is the suicide gank. Any other method of PvP against them is fruitless.
Griefer tears, best tears
Edit: Actually a bitter ex I see. Sick and sad. |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
705
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 11:48:00 -
[52] - Quote
Small note: Although I haven't actually mention it to any of the members, I plan to have semi-regular wardecs with RvB (due to the really good fights they brought this last month), and the members of the "DecShield" corporations are free to log in and randomly jump out at any E-UNI member.
Orion GUardian wrote:On a side note, could someone pelase elaborate what this Mechanic entails? Go have a look at the comments in the other thread about the DecShield thing - you should be able to peace together the way that works from the comments, and maybe check eve-search.com for "Immune Empire" for a practical example of the old "join alliance" thing.
And now my favourite bit:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Thorn Galen wrote:The Op has made it clear the the GM's say it is not an exploit, or am I wrong ? They are avoiding 72 billion ISK per month in CONCORD fees running their 19 corp decshield. That "exploit" is not commonly known... The exploit was given to them by CCP... Not commonly known, apart from the fact you yourself quoted someone explaining it earlier today...
Poetic, please understand, we can never be together, we're too different. I know you still love me, but please, start taking the medication again... for me? Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Jokerface666
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
49
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 12:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
So basically you are flaming that it costs now a lot of money to be able to shoot noobs.... instead of going out and engaging somebody of your size....
sir you just lost all possible respect as a eve player and a human beeing... you are officcially worthless now.
To EVE-UNI: awesome job guys, i wish i had known about you when i started eve. ------------------------------w00t w00t rapetrain------------------------------ |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 13:03:00 -
[54] - Quote
non judgement wrote: On a side note: Goons and Test are big teaching corps? For some reason I never thought of Test and Goons as teaching new players. Maybe they do, but I think +¡t's a very small part of what they really do and not their main focus.
Training new players is one of the most important things we do. We have a very small recruitment pool: we don't recruit eve players to join goons, we recruit goons to come play eve. That means that every single new goon is tremendously valuable to us. Because we have just a trickle of new players most of the time, our training isn't as organized as Eve Uni, obviously. During our annual newbie drive we'll run a few actual classes, but most of the time it is more informal than that.
To some extent we teach them Eve the same way throwing a child into deep water teaches her to swim. At times people have accused us of trying to generate lag by bringing "alts" in T1 frigates and T1 cruisers to a fleet fight, but those aren't alts, those are newbies. We want our newbies on the battlefield in their in their little rifters the first day they play Eve Online. Yes they die if anyone looks in their direction and it is terrible for our k/d ratio, but we keep giving them piles of free pre-fit rifters until they learn how to fly small tacklers like a pr0, or they finish training for something more durable. Between fights we have our wiki, videos, in-game help channel, mentors, squads, and the Boot Camp subforum to explain what is going on. We spend about 500 million a month on free stuff for newbies at the alliance level, plus squads have their own programs like giving newbies 103 free skill books, free cruisers, free implants, and other things.
I've seen public recruiting PVP corps that won't even look at anyone with less than 10 or 15 million skill points. That is insane. How many of those skill points are wasted on mining, mission running, production, or other skills that are completely worthless for a PVP character? Not to mention all the bad habits they will pick up after months of running level 2 missions in "safe" space as they wait for the skills to train. You can't expect someone to spend 9,999,999 skillpoints as a care bear and suddenly morph into a grizzly when they hit 10,000,000.
Plus, newbies are awesome to be around. The better you get at Eve the more insufferable you become, and that's a fact. Little bees, best bees. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfv1QtZDirY
Our buddies in TEST explained it pretty well here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96b7Jk5xCTQ |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
52
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 13:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
You might be right and that TEST video seems pretty good. But still the fact is that you guys spending 500m is nothing. Being able to field titans and sc means 500m is just a drop in the ocean. My point is that your main focus isn't just training people. If it was, I'd have to say that you guys sure have a lot of nullsec space for an alliance that just trains new players.
|
Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 13:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
Jokerface666 wrote:So basically you are flaming that it costs now a lot of money to be able to shoot noobs.... instead of going out and engaging somebody of your size....
Actually, the discussed abuse of game mechanics does not differentiate between new and old players, on either side of the war declaration.
Also, EVE University are a pretty big size corp, 1300+ members, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the third or fourth largest in EVE. Plus, it has been stated a few times that there are about 300 or so members older than an year in EVE University.
All this begs the question: Do you even know what you are talking about or just came here to express you e-hatred against somebody? |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
70
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 13:38:00 -
[57] - Quote
Damn them for using a game mechanic cleverly to achieve a result... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
494
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 13:39:00 -
[58] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:Damn them for using a game mechanic cleverly to achieve a result... Seeing as how up until very recently, that very use was deemed an exploit, yes. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
51
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 13:48:00 -
[59] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:Damn them for using a game mechanic cleverly to achieve a result...
Your sarcasm aside, the point is not using a game mechanic cleverly, but using it in unintended ways.
cf. POS bowling, evading CONCORD or changing corps while in space to surprise war targets - all pretty well within game mechanics.
Of course, you may argue that the possibility to create a decshield was intended way back when CCP introduced increasing costs for multitude of wardecs and I really can't prove to you that it was unintended, as well as you can't prove to me that it was intended.
So, it's matter of opinion whether this is how it should be or just an oversight from CCP devs.
And people just voice their opinion, like they are supposed to do on this facility called "forums".
|
Poetic Stanzitroll
BLOG University
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 13:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote: Poetic, please understand, we can never be together, we're too different. I know you still love me, but please, start taking the medication again... for me?
My heart is broken. I have gathered the shattered pieces and placed them in a bag. You have broken my heart.
-Check out my blog, it's the best! |
|
Orion GUardian
49
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 13:51:00 -
[61] - Quote
Anela Cistine wrote:non judgement wrote: On a side note: Goons and Test are big teaching corps? For some reason I never thought of Test and Goons as teaching new players. Maybe they do, but I think +¡t's a very small part of what they really do and not their main focus.
Training new players is one of the most important things we do. We have a very small recruitment pool: we don't recruit eve players to join goons, we recruit goons to come play eve. That means that every single new goon is tremendously valuable to us. Because we have just a trickle of new players most of the time, our training isn't as organized as Eve Uni, obviously. During our annual newbie drive we'll run a few actual classes, but most of the time it is more informal than that. To some extent we teach them Eve the same way throwing a child into deep water teaches her to swim. At times people have accused us of trying to generate lag by bringing "alts" in T1 frigates and T1 cruisers to a fleet fight, but those aren't alts, those are newbies. We want our newbies on the battlefield in their in their little rifters the first day they play Eve Online. Yes they die if anyone looks in their direction and it is terrible for our k/d ratio, but we keep giving them piles of free pre-fit rifters until they learn how to fly small tacklers like a pr0, or they finish training for something more durable. Between fights we have our wiki, videos, in-game help channel, mentors, squads, and the Boot Camp subforum to explain what is going on. We spend about 500 million a month on free stuff for newbies at the alliance level, plus squads have their own programs like giving newbies 103 free skill books, free cruisers, free implants, and other things. I've seen public recruiting PVP corps that won't even look at anyone with less than 10 or 15 million skill points. That is insane. How many of those skill points are wasted on mining, mission running, production, or other skills that are completely worthless for a PVP character? Not to mention all the bad habits they will pick up after months of running level 2 missions in "safe" space as they wait for the skills to train. You can't expect someone to spend 9,999,999 skillpoints as a care bear and suddenly morph into a grizzly when they hit 10,000,000. Plus, newbies are awesome to be around. The better you get at Eve the more insufferable you become, and that's a fact. Little bees, best bees. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfv1QtZDirYOur buddies in TEST explained it pretty well here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96b7Jk5xCTQ
And again I wonder why people hate g00ns or Test ;)
Anyway: I foud out about the mechanic used I I personally findthat rather elaborate and had required someone to think a bit about how to do it, so I don't have such a big problem with it as it requires quite a bit of work to setup the whole thing I doubt all of Empire will do that now.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
574
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 14:03:00 -
[62] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Rico Minali wrote:Damn them for using a game mechanic cleverly to achieve a result... Seeing as how up until very recently, that very use was deemed an exploit, yes.
It wasn't that long ago that adding scan probes to the DScan was an exploit too. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
KaarBaak
86
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 14:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
Dalloway Jones wrote:OP is creepy. Like "stalker ex" creepy.
My impression.
|
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
71
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 14:29:00 -
[64] - Quote
Karim alRashid wrote:Rico Minali wrote:Damn them for using a game mechanic cleverly to achieve a result... Your sarcasm aside, the point is not using a game mechanic cleverly, but using it in unintended ways. cf. POS bowling, evading CONCORD or changing corps while in space to surprise war targets - all pretty well within game mechanics. Of course, you may argue that the possibility to create a decshield was intended way back when CCP introduced increasing costs for multitude of wardecs and I really can't prove to you that it was unintended, as well as you can't prove to me that it was intended. So, it's matter of opinion whether this is how it should be or just an oversight from CCP devs. And people just voice their opinion, like they are supposed to do on this facility called "forums".
I do see the point from both sides actually anyway, just couldnt resist a dig.
Wardecs are broken, everyone, including ccp know this. One major issue is the use of wardecs simply to grief and lets face it that is used SO very much. It shouldnt be that easy. Eve Uni however is large enough in itself to not be griefed and can defend itself, so in this case no, there isnt any sympathy for them. There isnt yet a middle ground that makes sense and would actually be implementable, lots of ideas but usually they are from one side or teh other who either want to make griefing easier or to make their corporation super safe, the answer isnt a simple one.
So, no, it isnt ideal to allow the tactic to be used but until wardecs are made fairer to both the aggressor and the victim of wars what do ccp do? Wardecs need a complete overhaul. |
Big Jobs
Highwaymen Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 14:41:00 -
[65] - Quote
The Irony is this:
1) When the Privateer Alliance are NOT exploiting (at no point was what they were doing classed as an exploit by CCP) - CCP step in and change the rules specificaly to nerf them.
2) When the E-Uni ARE exploiting. As their attempt to avoid war were classed as an exploit up until the GMs announcement earlier this week - CCP not only do not step in to change the rules, they throw up their hands and legalise the exploit!!!!
You couldnt make it up!
*A Brief Recap*
2007-2008 Privateer alliance, a ragtag mish mash of mercs, reformed pirates, bored vets, noobs, and drifters wardec hundereds of the self proclaimed "powerbloc" alliances to test the mettle of their "leet pvpers".
With a few exceptions, the 0.0 leet alliance are found to be woeful and they die in droves, their mouths agape in astonishment as they find their pod floating in space - as a unruly bunch of renegades wipe the floor with their comrades.
The majority of the 0.0 alliances proved so easy to defeat, Privateers decided to up the challenge and dec all of them.... at once. And everyone else as well. The tears from the 0.0ers flodded the forums. At the time you would generaly have 5 Privatter posts on the front page of the forums with 0.0ers whining.
CCP steps in.
And the infamous Alliance P nerf hits tranquality. The only alliance (at the time) to have CCP step in specificaly with a change of game mechanics designed to destroy the alliance. A nerf actualy NAMED after the alliance (and hurridley changed into Alliance X when people pointed out the DeV had forgotten to edit it out).
The first major dump in the sandbox. A seminal moment in the decline of EvE into the sorry state it is today where the game actualy has a countdown to "ship spinning" as an advertising boast.
At the time, I, and many many others told CCP that the nerf was going to open a HUGE can of worms. They did not listen. They were fearless even back then you see.
And so it was proven, over the following years we have had constant abuses of the system. Some clamped down on (Imune alliance) and some not. Thousands of petitions for the GMs to deal with. Loopholes being shut opening new ones up. So much frustration on the part of the players and the Staff dealing with the issue.
Luckily we are getting scary vampires and can play with 12 year old hyper head shotting kiddies soon so it will be all worth while!
TLDR
+ 1 Feel like a chump that DESPITE all the constant CCP let downs over years of play, I was starting to have a glimer of hope in CCP with the latest dev blogs.... And then this. |
Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 14:44:00 -
[66] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vachir Khan wrote:Per usual, it'll need a lot of abuse of this mechanic (previously called exploit) and a lot of whining before this gets turned around by CCP. So all this posting and shouting is a GOOD thing. The more we shout about it, the more people reply to it how it's "not at all a bad thing" the more coverage it gets and the more people start to use it.
And once corporations start mass using this mechanic (previously called exploit) then finally CCP, the lumbering hulk that it is, will wake up, give it 2 seconds of attention and nerf it into the ground. So please, do keep posting, shouting and replying in threads like this and please, PLEASE, every corp should start using this mechanic (previously called exploit). That's the fastest way to get it taken care of. Give me ~35 days, and I'll have DecShield Alliance up and running from scratch. I'm thinking of pricing it at 2M ISK to shed your wardec (obviously with a bulk discount if you get decced more than once in a month, because I'm a nice person) to cover the upkeep fee. What do you think? Does it sound like a reasonable plan?
I think that sounds terribly familiar to something but I can't quite remember what it was... It's a great plan and you should go ahead with this, please don't forget to advertise it everywhere possible. In a short while we will have zero wars in EVE and this will stay for years to come, due to your effort!
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. |
Gogurt
61
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 14:47:00 -
[67] - Quote
People don't like eve-uni because of how cocky they are, they make noobs wait a month in a queue to join with the possibility of a flat out rejection. Sometimes I'll lurk in the EVE-Uni channe and just this month there were dozens of complaints and apparent rejections. They told them "lol, not our loss, we get 50 aps a day" I, at least was like >.> ...wtf...
So hearing about favoritism EVE-Uni receives from CCP kind of rubs me the wrong way to even though I have no interest in their wars or policies. It's not like they really do anything but empire pvp.. so ... I mean there aren't real classes that could possibly consist of any value that meet in space besides pvp.... they're really just a large RP empire blob corp
Why you would want to roleplay as a student or teacher? Maybe you never wen to college? Maybe unrequited love for you 6th grade teacher.. I dunno. Maybe they were bullied |
Poetic Stanzitroll
BLOG University
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 15:36:00 -
[68] - Quote
It's pretty clear.
Docking games are legitimate uses of in-game mechanics to avoid war targets.
Dec shields are illegitimate uses of in-games mechanics to avoid war targets.
I really don't understand the confusion? -Check out my blog, it's the best! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
496
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 15:39:00 -
[69] - Quote
Vachir Khan wrote:In a short while we will have zero wars in EVE and this will stay for years to come, due to your effort! With or without sarcasm, it's a win-win.
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
414
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 15:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
Anela Cistine wrote:non judgement wrote: On a side note: Goons and Test are big teaching corps? For some reason I never thought of Test and Goons as teaching new players. Maybe they do, but I think +¡t's a very small part of what they really do and not their main focus.
Training new players is one of the most important things we do. We have a very small recruitment pool: we don't recruit eve players to join goons, we recruit goons to come play eve. That means that every single new goon is tremendously valuable to us. Because we have just a trickle of new players most of the time, our training isn't as organized as Eve Uni, obviously. During our annual newbie drive we'll run a few actual classes, but most of the time it is more informal than that. To some extent we teach them Eve the same way throwing a child into deep water teaches her to swim. At times people have accused us of trying to generate lag by bringing "alts" in T1 frigates and T1 cruisers to a fleet fight, but those aren't alts, those are newbies. We want our newbies on the battlefield in their in their little rifters the first day they play Eve Online. Yes they die if anyone looks in their direction and it is terrible for our k/d ratio, but we keep giving them piles of free pre-fit rifters until they learn how to fly small tacklers like a pr0, or they finish training for something more durable. Between fights we have our wiki, videos, in-game help channel, mentors, squads, and the Boot Camp subforum to explain what is going on. We spend about 500 million a month on free stuff for newbies at the alliance level, plus squads have their own programs like giving newbies 103 free skill books, free cruisers, free implants, and other things. I've seen public recruiting PVP corps that won't even look at anyone with less than 10 or 15 million skill points. That is insane. How many of those skill points are wasted on mining, mission running, production, or other skills that are completely worthless for a PVP character? Not to mention all the bad habits they will pick up after months of running level 2 missions in "safe" space as they wait for the skills to train. You can't expect someone to spend 9,999,999 skillpoints as a care bear and suddenly morph into a grizzly when they hit 10,000,000. Plus, newbies are awesome to be around. The better you get at Eve the more insufferable you become, and that's a fact. Little bees, best bees. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfv1QtZDirYOur buddies in TEST explained it pretty well here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96b7Jk5xCTQ
I never thought I'd see the day when I preferred the Goon approach to Eve to the Eve Uni approach. Its strange times we're living in.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
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Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
93
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 15:52:00 -
[71] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vachir Khan wrote:In a short while we will have zero wars in EVE and this will stay for years to come, due to your effort! With or without sarcasm, it's a win-win.
Please, please do it. I will even help you run it.
The sooner people learn why we are "whining" the better.
This isn't a change to help noobs avoid wardecs, it is a unilateral change allowing anyone to avoid any wardec.
This includes 0.0 alliances who can now create alt corps for logistics, and keep them immune from AD0PT / whoever.
Pro change, CCP. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
496
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:06:00 -
[72] - Quote
Lady Go Diveher wrote:Please, please do it. I will even help you run it.
The sooner people learn why we are "whining" the better. ~30 days to get to Empire Control V, but yeah, on my wayGǪ
HmmGǪ how many moons are there in highsec? I'm sure you can get dotlan to spit out a number, butGǪ :effort:
And hey, even if they figure out why this is a particularly bad idea, I get an alliance-creation alt, and that's another handy service to provide. So, really, win-win-win. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Thorn Galen wrote:The Op has made it clear the the GM's say it is not an exploit, or am I wrong ? They are avoiding 72 billion ISK per month in CONCORD fees running their 19 corp decshield. That "exploit" is not commonly known, and apparently EVE University wishes that to remain a "sekrit". The exploit was given to them by CCP. EVE University can remain war free at no little cost to themselves (which I would call an exploit, even if CCP has given them special privilege to make use of it.)
What they're doing is actually considered a valid buisness practice in some countries in RL.
Japan, for example, builds giant corporate alliances called keiretsu; they pool resources to defend against hostile takeovers and minimize economic risk. Each member company owns small shares in the others, so if one company is threatened with a takeover, the keiretsu as a whole is sufficiently placed to block the attempt.
A 19-corp decshield is just such a strategy -- protect your assets with a 'united front', so that a wardec on one is unwise. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2441
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:16:00 -
[74] - Quote
I clicked this thread expecting a whine about Goons & Friends running the CSM.
I was pleasantly surprised by an entirely different conspiracy theory! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
49
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:21:00 -
[75] - Quote
I didn't know jack squat about Eve-U before this thread. Now I have respect for the concept. It's a player-drive solution against this sort if thing.
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KaarBaak
86
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:48:00 -
[76] - Quote
By definition, if CCP doesn't think it's an exploit, it's not an exploit. Maybe it was an exploit, but is no longer. People should use the correct terminology. It's now a 'valid game mechanic.' |
Barakkus
816
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:53:00 -
[77] - Quote
Yay for the ignore functionality. I no longer see Tom Gerrard threads or Xenuria...add one more to the list... |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
98
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:54:00 -
[78] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:I never thought I'd see the day when I preferred the Goon approach to Eve to the Eve Uni approach. Its strange times we're living in.
The core concept of EVE Online is non-consensual PvP. That anyone, anywhere can **** on your day.
The Goons have always embraced this aspect of EVE.
EVE University has always fought hard against it, petitioned CCP against it.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
58
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:59:00 -
[79] - Quote
I'm going to ignore the rabble thus far to say that the high sec war declaration mechanics are in desperate need of an overhaul. War declaration "immunity" by forcing war declarations to be prohibitively expensive is one of those things that makes the need more urgent. As it stands, there is no real way to win a war, which limits their value to creating an involuntary sustained PVP environment. War declaration avoidance removes the one value War Declarations have in high security space.
I'm not going to bash EVE University for taking advantage of it, because lets be honest; it would be stupid of them not to. However, the problem really does need to be fixed with a good, well thought out game design solution, and it needs to be done sooner rather than later. This problem was supposed to be addressed two years ago, to no avail. |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
65
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 17:09:00 -
[80] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Vyl Vit wrote:Anyone that war decs EVE U should use mental floss more frequently. There may even be a few scrip bottles in the med chest that require some attention.
Why not just run a bus over the school kids in the crosswalk. That'll give you a sense of power! Half their members are carebear lifers. Thirty-five percent are 4-8 months old. And fifteen percent are newbies. (You can run the stats on their full member list, available on their website.) They welcome newbies, but they're not a newbie corporation. Besides, no one in this game should be able to recuse themselves from the Sandbox.
Wait. I get it. You excel at pointing out irrelevancies. Everyone has to have a calling in life. I'm glad you found yours.
To her it doesn't matter much.-á It's chasms have been leapt, and she leans upon the skepticism of her chosen fate. |
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 17:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
Evelgrivion wrote:As it stands, there is no real way to win a war, which limits their value to creating an involuntary sustained PVP environment.
What kind of avoidance?
Seems to me the moment you pay you can wardec, the cost is to high?
|
Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
58
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 17:18:00 -
[82] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Evelgrivion wrote:As it stands, there is no real way to win a war, which limits their value to creating an involuntary sustained PVP environment. What kind of avoidance? Seems to me the moment you pay you can wardec, the cost is to high?
I'm having trouble deciphering your sentence. |
Esagila
20
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 17:20:00 -
[83] - Quote
As a teaching university for noobs I can certainly see it being argued that it is in CPPGÇÖs best interests to shield the newer players from griefing while they are trying to learn the game as it will probably boost retentionGǪ making new long term players. This is more or less, good for everyone.
However, do the non-noobs (say teachers, staff or graduates that hang around) really need a shield against war decs? I donGÇÖt understand why they would, having a selective war dec to protect the noobs but not give immunity to non-noobs I think would be a pretty good balance and allow for less abuse/griefing of new players. Maybe this is an outlandish suggestion or I am not understanding the tactics of the situation fully GÇô but I am curious.
|
Poetic Stanzitroll
BLOG University
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 17:39:00 -
[84] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote: The core concept of EVE Online is non-consensual PvP. That anyone, anywhere can **** on your day.
Exactly. There is nothing as non-consensual as not consenting to the consent of possible non-consensual war targets. I really think this point is quite obvious. Green eggs and ham even! -Check out my blog, it's the best! |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
66
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 18:47:00 -
[85] - Quote
Esagila wrote:As a teaching university for noobs I can certainly see it being argued that it is in CPPGÇÖs best interests to shield the newer players from griefing while they are trying to learn the game as it will probably boost retentionGǪ making new long term players. This is more or less, good for everyone.
However, do the non-noobs (say teachers, staff or graduates that hang around) really need a shield against war decs? I donGÇÖt understand why they would, having a selective war dec to protect the noobs but not give immunity to non-noobs I think would be a pretty good balance and allow for less abuse/griefing of new players. Maybe this is an outlandish suggestion or I am not understanding the tactics of the situation fully GÇô but I am curious.
It's not that EVE-Uni can't handle wardecs, they have always done so very well, and have included newbies in the process.
The problem is that EVE-Uni was getting wardecced so often it was actually hampering the process of teaching newbies (as in actually having sessions, getting instruction, etc.). |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 18:55:00 -
[86] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Vyl Vit wrote:Anyone that war decs EVE U should use mental floss more frequently. There may even be a few scrip bottles in the med chest that require some attention.
Why not just run a bus over the school kids in the crosswalk. That'll give you a sense of power! Half their members are carebear lifers. Thirty-five percent are 4-8 months old. And fifteen percent are newbies. (You can run the stats on their full member list, available on their website.) They welcome newbies, but they're not a newbie corporation. Besides, no one in this game should be able to recuse themselves from the Sandbox.
Why isn't it okay to artificially raise the price of a war dec, but it's okay to use neutral RR'ers when combating the vicious carebears? Also, why can you abuse aggression mechanics to kill lowbies? Why is it anything benefiting a carebear is automatic ****?
|
Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
64
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 19:09:00 -
[87] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:Why isn't it okay to artificially raise the price of a war dec, but it's okay to use neutral RR'ers when combating the vicious carebears? Also, why can you abuse aggression mechanics to kill lowbies? Why is it anything benefiting a carebear is automatic ****?
Being against war declaration avoidance does not imply an endorsement of aggression mechanics abuse or neutral remote repairs in high security space, nor does it imply a hatred of care bears. For the record, I am against neutral remote repairs in high security space, but "aggression mechanics abuse" is too broad in scope to support or oppose. |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 19:25:00 -
[88] - Quote
Evelgrivion wrote:Igualmentedos wrote:Why isn't it okay to artificially raise the price of a war dec, but it's okay to use neutral RR'ers when combating the vicious carebears? Also, why can you abuse aggression mechanics to kill lowbies? Why is it anything benefiting a carebear is automatic ****?
Being against war declaration avoidance does not imply an endorsement of aggression mechanics abuse or neutral remote repairs in high security space, nor does it imply a hatred of care bears. For the record, I am against neutral remote repairs in high security space, but "aggression mechanics abuse" is too broad in scope to support or oppose.
I'm glad players like you exist. I want CCP to revise the whole thing, but notice how the second carebears gain a slight upper-hand the "leet pvpers" start flipping ****? That's absurd, and I hate to see players scream for "balance" just so they can spend time ruining other players' enjoyment. That's wrong, IMO, and only hurts EvE in the end.
Also, I think non-consensual PvP isgood, but not when it's excessively abused. Players shouldnt spend all of their time murdering little kestrels so they can pad their killboard. I think it's absurd that "leet pvpers" wont seek out an actual fight as opposed to the typical slaughter.
Some may view carebears as a problem to EvE online, and they may believe they are ruining the spirit of the game, or side-stepping the sandbox, but the whole point of the sandbox is to allow every (reasonable) style of play. It seems as though these "leet pvpers" are a cancer in EvE. Nothing is wrong with PvP, but excessive griefing makes for an annoying experience. Again, I'm not saying there shouldn't be conflict (I think PvP is great in EvE), but blowing harmless players up for the sake of blowing up harmless players is rather stupid.
Even the recent Goonswarm iniative to **** block ice mining is totally fine. They have a goal in the end to manipulate the ice market. Even something as disruptive as that is okay. Although there may be a fine line between necessary and abusive I still feel like the endless harassment of EvE uni is just outrageous.
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Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 19:50:00 -
[89] - Quote
Poetic Stanzitroll wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote: The core concept of EVE Online is non-consensual PvP. That anyone, anywhere can **** on your day.
Exactly. There is nothing as non-consensual as not consenting to the consent of possible non-consensual war targets. I really think this point is quite obvious. Green eggs and ham even!
Glad you agree with yourself.
|
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 21:46:00 -
[90] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:Why isn't it okay to artificially raise the price of a war dec ... It's okay to raise the cost of a wardec ... but ...
1. E-Uni is taking raising the cost to an extreme.
2. E-Uni is not bearing the cost itself of taking it to that extreme, utilizing an exploit to avoid the majority of the CONCORD fees to raise the cost of a wardec against them. The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
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supersexysucker
Uber Awesome Fantastico Awesomeness Group
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:03:00 -
[91] - Quote
lol um did we all forget about CCP's last thing with a big alliance... you know cheating... O rite... nothing changed? lol Shocking.
Love for some 0.0 alliances to dec and pwn these asshats dec shield yourself all you want when the big guys come to **** you =) |
Goddess Ishtar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:31:00 -
[92] - Quote
supersexysucker wrote:lol um did we all forget about CCP's last thing with a big alliance... you know cheating... O rite... nothing changed? lol Shocking.
Love for some 0.0 alliances to dec and pwn these asshats dec shield yourself all you want when the big guys come to **** you =) Most of the 0.0 alliances get along quite well with E-Uni. I'm sure that will spawn some new conspiracy theories from their favorite stalker...
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Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
76
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:31:00 -
[93] - Quote
I don't know about this threads actual topic but I know there are only two CSM members worth two ***** and thats Trebor and Seleen. Draculina Alucardi...3rd account canceled, no reason to hold an account for a SC pilot, if you can only use it in PVP ... thanks CCP :)-á Support the cause! Linky |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:37:00 -
[94] - Quote
Goddess Ishtar wrote:Most of the 0.0 alliances get along quite well with E-Uni. I'm sure that will spawn some new conspiracy theories from their favorite stalker... What conspiracy? CCP has been bending over backwards to make EVE University's high-sec existence easier, because they believe EVE University is a newbie training corporation and that they help with new player retention.
The recent wardec policy change is evidence of this "backwards over bending."
(Whereas EVE University does recruit newbies, and they probably have some success retaining them as permanent paying customers for CCP, the majority of their members are long-time, experienced carebears who are not at all interested in PvP or the EVE sandbox.)
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Jessie Kenan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:41:00 -
[95] - Quote
@OP
Boo ******* hoo, I can't wardec a newbie corp to get cheap kills. Thing is that they're actually providing a service that benefits the whole of eve (new player retention) while all you do is ***** and moan on the forums.
I wouldn't mind if Estel Corp did the same, but of course they don't need to since they don't attract the ***** wardecs as they're not full of noobs. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:43:00 -
[96] - Quote
Jessie Kenan wrote:I wouldn't mind if Estel Corp did the same, but of course they don't need to since they don't attract the ***** wardecs as they're not full of noobs. Neither is EVE University. You've been misled. Only 15% of their total membership are characters less than three months old.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Jessie Kenan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:57:00 -
[97] - Quote
92% of all statistics are not based on actual facts. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
87
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:58:00 -
[98] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel you need to forget about E-Uni and put your energies into destroying the real enemy: roleplayers |
Trainwreck McGee
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:59:00 -
[99] - Quote
whhhhaaaaa i cant leet pvp noobs in a intro carebear corp whhaaaaa whaaaaa whaaaaa i might have to actually pvp with people who want to whaaaaa whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Seriously get a ******* life CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Sara XIII
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:51:00 -
[100] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Jessie Kenan wrote:I wouldn't mind if Estel Corp did the same, but of course they don't need to since they don't attract the ***** wardecs as they're not full of noobs. Neither is EVE University. You've been misled. Only 15% of their total membership are characters less than three months old.
Can you back this up? |
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
90
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:56:00 -
[101] - Quote
Sara XIII wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Jessie Kenan wrote:I wouldn't mind if Estel Corp did the same, but of course they don't need to since they don't attract the ***** wardecs as they're not full of noobs. Neither is EVE University. You've been misled. Only 15% of their total membership are characters less than three months old. Can you back this up? Poetic never lets things like facts or proof get in the way of his obsession with the uni.
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Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:36:00 -
[102] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Igualmentedos wrote:Why isn't it okay to artificially raise the price of a war dec ... It's okay to raise the cost of a wardec ... but ... 1. E-Uni is taking raising the cost to an extreme. 2. E-Uni is not bearing the cost itself of taking it to that extreme, utilizing an exploit to avoid the majority of the CONCORD fees to raise the cost of a wardec against them.
1. How much of an extreme are we talking? I honestly don't know because it doesn't matter to me. Although, it does make sense that even within the lore of EvE an entity could have so much political pull and money to make war declarations difficult. Also, if someone REALLY wants to kill a person they can, it will just cost them. As I said before, war decs are fine, but excessive griefing (especially against new players) is just out of line.
2. This I didnt know about please elaborate before I say something I regret |
Mohr Cowbell
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:37:00 -
[103] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:There are two CSMs in this game. They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. .
I have no idea if this is true or not. But seriously, why do you want to wardec E-UNI? Theres not exactly a shortage of corps to wardec. Oh wait.... oh.... I see why.
|
Digital Messiah
N7 Corporation
45
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:39:00 -
[104] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Why worry about Eve-Uni? No one really cares what you think about Eve-Uni. because you've gone on about them over and over again. Don't you think it's getting a bit old? How long can you hold a grudge for?
I've never been part of the Uni. I just think it's just a corp that helps people new to Eve. Which is great cause Eve isn't the easiest thing to just play without learning how to do all the different things in the game, and you feel like it's your job to give them a hard time about not much at all.
I'd like to see you try running a corp thats meant to train new players while getting heaps of wardecs. I don't think it's a simple thing unless you want to teach people how to fight during a wardec.
get over it.
/me feeding something bad and knowing it wont change. Good points, also it isn't like EVE-U is holding SOV : / "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" |
Gogurt
62
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:42:00 -
[105] - Quote
... |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:45:00 -
[106] - Quote
How about a compromise: Get rid of the escalating costs of wardecs, so everyone in Eve can wardec Eve Uni and Privateers can wardec every single 0.0 alliance. To compensate and provide a safe place for lessons or whatever, implement a new concord widget that prevents launching drones and firing non-civilian weapons in 1.0 space at all.
There is plenty of precedent for magical concord widgets. You can't use a smartbomb on the Jita undock due to magical widgets. You can't use bubbles in highsec due to magical widgets. You can't jump your super cap fleet into highsec due to magical widgets. A new widget that was only used in 1.0 systems would fit right in.
1.0 systems are mostly places where billions of humans live, it always seemed a little odd that no one minds people firing all kinds of weapons right next to the amarr home world. It's a game so ammunition that misses the target never hits anything, but realistically plenty of ammo would get sucked into the planet's the gravity well, and even if it all burned up harmlessly in the atmosphere it would disturb the population. 1.0 systems are also where brand new newbies spawn, and they just want to be left alone while they figure out how to make their ships go. Allowing civilian guns would let them still do that first tutorial mission. If some jerk wants to put 8 small civilian guns on his battleship and try to gank people in 1.0 systems, I wish him good luck, it certainly won't go quickly.
1.0 systems are almost worthless now, this would just make them slightly more worthless. You can't mine there, the belts are all tapped out. If you want to rat you are much better off going to a 0.7 or 0.8 system, even as a low-skill newbie. (If you do want to rat in 1.0, I imagine civilian guns would be sufficient.) There would need to be some code jiggering so that missions wouldn't send you to fight things in 1.0 systems. People could cower in 1.0 and be poor and almost completely safe (with a reasonable tank even that 8 civilian gun ganker isn't much of a threat). "Schools" can keep their precious newbies safe during classes. But if you want to make any money you have to leave 1.0 and expose yourself to real guns and other dangers. Real newbies will be safe, but oldbies hiding in a school won't be able to rake in the isk without exposing themselves to danger. Everyone is happy.
Hilariously, Jita is a 0.9 system, so this wouldn't protect alliances visiting the largest market in the game. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
108
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 02:58:00 -
[107] - Quote
Sara XIII wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Jessie Kenan wrote:I wouldn't mind if Estel Corp did the same, but of course they don't need to since they don't attract the ***** wardecs as they're not full of noobs. Neither is EVE University. You've been misled. Only 15% of their total membership are characters less than three months old. Can you back this up? Can you write a little PHP or Python or Ruby?
http://members.eveuniversity.org, and then run them against the API for character age. The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Sara XIII
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 04:04:00 -
[108] - Quote
Unfortunately I can't. But you had to get that number from somewhere. |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
713
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 04:50:00 -
[109] - Quote
Sara XIII wrote:Unfortunately I can't. But you had to get that number from somewhere. Tip: It came from his ass.
I'll actually some some of the work for you both this weekend if I get the chance - we have the data in the forum database already. Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
glepp
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 07:02:00 -
[110] - Quote
In this thread: witness the fury of a lover scorned.
By golly, i almost don't wish i have better stuff to do. |
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non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
58
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 07:05:00 -
[111] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Sara XIII wrote:Unfortunately I can't. But you had to get that number from somewhere. Tip: It came from his ass. I'll actually some some of the work for you both this weekend if I get the chance - we have the data in the forum database already. Seems like lots of things he says comes from his ass.
I almost feel like offering some help, if any corp wants to get rid of a wardec they can join and leave my alliance. But it'd expect to be paid, of course. ;D |
Stetson Hollander
Fool's Paradise
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 18:07:00 -
[112] - Quote
Poetic Stanzitroll wrote:It's pretty clear.
Docking games are legitimate uses of in-game mechanics to avoid war targets.
Dec shields are illegitimate uses of in-games mechanics to avoid war targets.
I really don't understand the confusion?
Its clearly evident that when it suits to hurt the uni your all for it. If however it hurts the "rights" of trolls greifers and asshats its perfectly ok.
Work for Fox news they need people as bitter and full of their own spiteful vendettas , at least then you could make some money at it.
|
Zerra Zeta
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 18:09:00 -
[113] - Quote
Stetson Hollander wrote:Poetic Stanzitroll wrote:It's pretty clear.
Docking games are legitimate uses of in-game mechanics to avoid war targets.
Dec shields are illegitimate uses of in-games mechanics to avoid war targets.
I really don't understand the confusion? Its clearly evident that when it suits to hurt the uni your all for it. If however it hurts the "rights" of trolls greifers and asshats its perfectly ok. Work for Fox news they need people as bitter and full of their own spiteful vendettas , at least then you could make some money at it.
Why isn't there a downvote button?
Hearing about how teenagers hate the 'media' as portrayed on their comedy central news programs hurts my head. |
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 18:15:00 -
[114] - Quote
non judgement wrote:I've never been part of the Uni. I just think it's just a corp that helps people new to Eve. Which is great cause Eve isn't the easiest thing to just play without learning how to do all the different things in the game, and you feel like it's your job to give them a hard time about not much at all.
The problem is, they don't help new players. I'll tie what I mean into the following...
Quote:I'd like to see you try running a corp thats meant to train new players while getting heaps of wardecs. I don't think it's a simple thing unless you want to teach people how to fight during a wardec.
They don't teach PvP. They teach blobbing. As I mentioned previously, I watched a single RvB Hookbill warp into an EUni gatecamp at range. Rifters and other T1 frigates began to break off, chasing the juicy kill. I watched said Hookbill demolish seven or eight frigates and manage to warp out in structure. Even the biggest noob under my command could have known how to properly gank that Hookbill. However, without their Blackbird and ECM screen, they are nothing. When they come up against competent PvPers, they run and hide, and always will. They are just getting rich off of the work of the numerous lower members they have, nothing more.
You want to learn the basics of PvP? Join another corporation. They boast about being the premier alliance for learning in EvE, yet from what I have heard from many players, they don't actually teach anything. As was said earlier, no one should be safe from the Sandbox. Good job, CCP. You took one step forward with recent changes and decisions, only to take five-hundred steps back by taking away from PvP, legitimate or not.
|
Stetson Hollander
Fool's Paradise
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 18:17:00 -
[115] - Quote
Zerra Zeta wrote:Stetson Hollander wrote:Poetic Stanzitroll wrote:It's pretty clear.
Docking games are legitimate uses of in-game mechanics to avoid war targets.
Dec shields are illegitimate uses of in-games mechanics to avoid war targets.
I really don't understand the confusion? Its clearly evident that when it suits to hurt the uni your all for it. If however it hurts the "rights" of trolls greifers and asshats its perfectly ok. Work for Fox news they need people as bitter and full of their own spiteful vendettas , at least then you could make some money at it. Why isn't there a downvote button? Hearing about how teenagers hate the 'media' as portrayed on their comedy central news programs hurts my head.
media thats laughable. what rock did you crawl out from ? its clearly evident that Fox news is not fair and balanced.
if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck ....
poetic is the same process, propaganda for bitter vendettas . fairly imballanced . |
Kengutsi Akira
34
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 18:24:00 -
[116] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:There are two CSMs in this game. The one that the players voted for. And EVE University. The recent wardec policy changes are proof of EVE University, via Kelduum Revaan, being the other de facto CSM. CCP caters to their needs, without any oversight by the players. They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. They can turn it on or off at their whim. Their decshield is 19 corporations strong, and they've been allowed to use an exploit to avoid the CONCORD costs of that decshield. The only single danger left for them is the suicide gank. Any other method of PvP against them is fruitless.
well yeah, CCP have stated that the Goons' manner of exploiting CONCORD is allowed, why not give the carebears allowed exploits too?
An hell, the chairman of the CSM is trying to break the game... why dont ppl want to out him too? lol |
Lovelocke
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
29
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 18:24:00 -
[117] - Quote
More tears about the uni haha love it. I love how griefers use "legitimate" mechanics which happen to help them, such as neut RR etc, but as soon as their targets use a legitimate mechanic they cry more tears than they've ever collected!
Oh and Poetic, can't really say much more. Kinda thought you would be letting your hardon die down and move on. Obviously not. I'm personally all for every single advantage given to e-uni because they actually do a hell of a lot for the game and all of you faggots filling the thread with tears; what the **** have you done for the game? Exactly, now stfu and do one. |
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 18:25:00 -
[118] - Quote
Lovelocke wrote:More tears about the uni haha love it. I love how griefers use "legitimate" mechanics which happen to help them, such as neut RR etc, but as soon as their targets use a legitimate mechanic they cry more tears than they've ever collected!
Oh and Poetic, can't really say much more. Kinda thought you would be letting your hardon die down and move on. Obviously not. I'm personally all for every single advantage given to e-uni because they actually do a hell of a lot for the game and all of you faggots filling the thread with tears; what the **** have you done for the game? Exactly, now stfu and do one.
That's just it...it wasn't a legit mechanic. It was, and should by all rights, still be considered an exploit.
|
Kengutsi Akira
34
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 18:29:00 -
[119] - Quote
Azelor Delaria wrote:Lovelocke wrote:More tears about the uni haha love it. I love how griefers use "legitimate" mechanics which happen to help them, such as neut RR etc, but as soon as their targets use a legitimate mechanic they cry more tears than they've ever collected!
Oh and Poetic, can't really say much more. Kinda thought you would be letting your hardon die down and move on. Obviously not. I'm personally all for every single advantage given to e-uni because they actually do a hell of a lot for the game and all of you faggots filling the thread with tears; what the **** have you done for the game? Exactly, now stfu and do one. That's just it...it wasn't a legit mechanic. It was, and should by all rights, still be considered an exploit.
like kiting CONCORD?
Quote:Cleaning up your own CONCORD spawn, so other people can make their own attack runs, is actually really easy. Dock at the closest station to the belt you just ganked in, then immediately undock in a newbie ship and don't move - simply drift for 30 seconds with your docking immunity. This will pull CONCORD to you, and since you have your docking immunity sentry guns will not kill you before CONCORD gets there. If multiple people participated in a gank, they should all do this at the same time.
Quote:Sometimes clever pubbies, or lazy goons, will leave a spawn in a belt. You need to get rid of that before you gank, or you'll be instagibbed when you gank (unless you're in a Galtpest).
Concord usually only spawns one fleet per system. Concord, once spawned, will travel from place to place dealing with anything that shoots something they shouldn't. That means you just need to summon CONCORD somewhere else: take a newbieship in an alt and plink something - a GSC, or the staging pos. Just don't do it near faction police or sentry guns, so you don't die before CONCORD gets there.
If two people gank at once, however, there will be two fleets. It appears that the closest spawn is the one that moves: ergo get closer to the spawn you want to move (nearby belt, nearby pos, whatever) than the one you don't, then summon it. If all else fails, use safespots just off-grid. Don't worry about CONCORD being close: they take a flat 6 seconds to warp regardless of distance.
yeah cause thats not exploiting game mechanics at all
|
Zerra Zeta
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 18:37:00 -
[120] - Quote
Stetson Hollander wrote:Zerra Zeta wrote:Stetson Hollander wrote:Poetic Stanzitroll wrote:It's pretty clear.
Docking games are legitimate uses of in-game mechanics to avoid war targets.
Dec shields are illegitimate uses of in-games mechanics to avoid war targets.
I really don't understand the confusion? Its clearly evident that when it suits to hurt the uni your all for it. If however it hurts the "rights" of trolls greifers and asshats its perfectly ok. Work for Fox news they need people as bitter and full of their own spiteful vendettas , at least then you could make some money at it. Why isn't there a downvote button? Hearing about how teenagers hate the 'media' as portrayed on their comedy central news programs hurts my head. media thats laughable. what rock did you crawl out from ? its clearly evident that Fox news is not fair and balanced. if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck .... poetic is the same process, propaganda for bitter vendettas . fairly imballanced .
http://i.imgur.com/rOEQw.gif
|
|
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 19:23:00 -
[121] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:Azelor Delaria wrote:Lovelocke wrote:More tears about the uni haha love it. I love how griefers use "legitimate" mechanics which happen to help them, such as neut RR etc, but as soon as their targets use a legitimate mechanic they cry more tears than they've ever collected!
Oh and Poetic, can't really say much more. Kinda thought you would be letting your hardon die down and move on. Obviously not. I'm personally all for every single advantage given to e-uni because they actually do a hell of a lot for the game and all of you faggots filling the thread with tears; what the **** have you done for the game? Exactly, now stfu and do one. That's just it...it wasn't a legit mechanic. It was, and should by all rights, still be considered an exploit. like kiting CONCORD? Quote:Cleaning up your own CONCORD spawn, so other people can make their own attack runs, is actually really easy. Dock at the closest station to the belt you just ganked in, then immediately undock in a newbie ship and don't move - simply drift for 30 seconds with your docking immunity. This will pull CONCORD to you, and since you have your docking immunity sentry guns will not kill you before CONCORD gets there. If multiple people participated in a gank, they should all do this at the same time. Quote:Sometimes clever pubbies, or lazy goons, will leave a spawn in a belt. You need to get rid of that before you gank, or you'll be instagibbed when you gank (unless you're in a Galtpest).
Concord usually only spawns one fleet per system. Concord, once spawned, will travel from place to place dealing with anything that shoots something they shouldn't. That means you just need to summon CONCORD somewhere else: take a newbieship in an alt and plink something - a GSC, or the staging pos. Just don't do it near faction police or sentry guns, so you don't die before CONCORD gets there.
If two people gank at once, however, there will be two fleets. It appears that the closest spawn is the one that moves: ergo get closer to the spawn you want to move (nearby belt, nearby pos, whatever) than the one you don't, then summon it. If all else fails, use safespots just off-grid. Don't worry about CONCORD being close: they take a flat 6 seconds to warp regardless of distance. yeah cause thats not exploiting game mechanics at all
This is why people laugh at the "leet pvpers" theyre just a bunch of carebears lmao. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
157
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 21:52:00 -
[122] - Quote
If i block you, does that keeps your threads away from my front page? Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 22:38:00 -
[123] - Quote
Confirming Kelduum Revaan leads secret CSM composed only of secret Uni Directors. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
111
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 22:43:00 -
[124] - Quote
Ogi Talvanen wrote:Confirming Kelduum Revaan leads secret CSM composed only of secret Uni Directors. Just Kelduum. He's a one-man Shadow CSM. He's the only one in the Uni that discusses game mechanics with CCP.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 22:49:00 -
[125] - Quote
You dont think Darian Reymont and Irdalth Delrar arent also in it? |
Azmodeus Valar
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 22:56:00 -
[126] - Quote
Ogi Talvanen wrote:You dont think Darian Reymont and Irdalth Delrar arent also in it?
Darian isn't, Irdalth isn't. Only those directors who have been inducted into the Secret Society of the Shadows are given access to the CCP skype conferences and messenger. It is a long an arduous process to become one of the Shadow Directors, but well worth it. We get briefings on game mechanics, special input into setting coding priorities, and naked pictures of the devs. We also get cookies.
/sarcasm |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
111
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:01:00 -
[127] - Quote
Azmodeus Valar wrote: We get briefings on game mechanics, special input into setting coding priorities, and naked pictures of the devs. We also get cookies. Joking aside, the recent wardec policy change was made to appease Kelduum's constant bitching about his own WSOP griefing his corporation every time they were wardecced. And CCP is also under the illusion that EVE University is still a newbie training corporation, rather than a large PvP shelter for long-time carebears.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:01:00 -
[128] - Quote
I knew it! You are in it too!! |
Azmodeus Valar
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:03:00 -
[129] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Azmodeus Valar wrote: We get briefings on game mechanics, special input into setting coding priorities, and naked pictures of the devs. We also get cookies. Joking aside, the recent wardec policy change was made to appease Kelduum's constant bitching about his own WSOP griefing his corporation every time they were wardecced. And CCP is also under the illusion that EVE University is still a newbie training corporation, rather than a large PvP shelter for long-time carebears.
Your ability to say "joking aside", and then make bizarre accusations pieced together from the voices in your own head continues to amaze me. |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
719
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:07:00 -
[130] - Quote
Of course, we know who started it all with the CSM...
So, its all your fault Poetic... go on, admit it. You started it all - you decided I should be on CSM 7 back in August.
(meanwhile, back in the real world and on a slightly more realistic note, the E-UNI forums now list how long someone has been in the corp in their profile, and will have all the accounts updated in about 3 days, so everyone can see just how much of Poetics data is being pulled out of his ass.) Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
|
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:08:00 -
[131] - Quote
Azmodeus Valar wrote:Ogi Talvanen wrote:You dont think Darian Reymont and Irdalth Delrar arent also in it? Darian isn't, Irdalth isn't. Only those directors who have been inducted into the Secret Society of the Shadows are given access to the CCP skype conferences and messenger. It is a long an arduous process to become one of the Shadow Directors, but well worth it. We get briefings on game mechanics, special input into setting coding priorities, and naked pictures of the devs. We also get cookies. /sarcasm
Az, I thought that the Shadow Dir's had to go through the crucible of D6 before entering the Society.
|
Azmodeus Valar
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:13:00 -
[132] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Azmodeus Valar wrote:Ogi Talvanen wrote:You dont think Darian Reymont and Irdalth Delrar arent also in it? Darian isn't, Irdalth isn't. Only those directors who have been inducted into the Secret Society of the Shadows are given access to the CCP skype conferences and messenger. It is a long an arduous process to become one of the Shadow Directors, but well worth it. We get briefings on game mechanics, special input into setting coding priorities, and naked pictures of the devs. We also get cookies. /sarcasm Az, I thought that the Shadow Dir's had to go through the crucible of D6 before entering the Society.
For revealing our secrets, we are placing you under double secret probation. |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:13:00 -
[133] - Quote
They replaced that with naked dancing under the moonlight. After that you are shadow CSM shadow director. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
111
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:14:00 -
[134] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:(Meanwhile, back in the real world and on a slightly more realistic note, the E-UNI forums now list how long someone has been in the corp in their profile, and will have all the 20,000 accounts updated in about three days, so everyone can see just how much of Poetics data is being pulled out of his ass.) E-Uni has 20,000 members now? Who the hell cares about any of the forum posters other than E-Uni members. And how long someone has been in the corp is meaningless (since most of the longtime carebears jump corp every single wardec) ... it's how long someone has been in the game.
My data is accurate and drawn from your published members list. A minority of E-Uni members have been playing the game for three months or less.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
719
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:16:00 -
[135] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:My data is accurate and drawn from your published members list. A minority of E-Uni members have been playing the game for three months or less.
Then please, post it here so everyone can see.
... actually no, don't, as if it has come out of your ass, I'd rather not see it.
Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:18:00 -
[136] - Quote
Kinky. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
112
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:20:00 -
[137] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:My data is accurate and drawn from your published members list. A minority of E-Uni members have been playing the game for three months or less. Actually no, don't, as if it has come out of your ass, I'd rather not see it. Coming from someone who was just attempting to pass off "how long someone has been in E-Uni" as a meaningful metric, that's priceless. Especially when E-Uni encourages carebears to drop corp every wardec (thus resetting the "time in E-Uni" counter.)
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:38:00 -
[138] - Quote
Poetic, regarding all the notoriety you are bringing to your 12 char Jita based mfg corp, how thrilled are they?
|
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:39:00 -
[139] - Quote
They dont know. |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
720
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:43:00 -
[140] - Quote
Poetic, please quote the whole post, and do feel free to post your data, despite it likely being somewhat... unhygienic. That said, I'm not certain why the majority of E-UNI members apparently being in the corp for over 3 months would be a bad thing - surely that means there is significant player retention?
Anyway, the "time in E-Uni" counter is the total number of weeks the character spent in E-UNI, coming from the Character Info API and rounded down.
Go check my profile there and do the math yourself if you need to - I'm listed as being in E-UNI for 264 weeks, even though I first joined on 2006.07.27, 272 weeks ago. Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
|
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:48:00 -
[141] - Quote
Thats lot of weeks. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
112
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:51:00 -
[142] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Poetic, please quote the whole post, and do feel free to post your data, despite it likely being somewhat... unhygienic. That said, I'm not certain why the majority of E-UNI members apparently being in the corp for over 3 months would be a bad thing - surely that means there is significant player retention? I see you added a Registered row. That's good. That's the more interesting and useful metric.
That's fantastic that E-Uni has lots and lots of player retention and that players feel snug and warm within the confines of EVE Uni. What it means though is that EVE Uni is no longer a simple training corporation, and more of a shelter for carebears from PvP. You certainly don't need 1000 carebears to train 50 newbs, correct?
Whereas you may still train newbies, the primary function of the University for the majority of your members is certainly not training. Most of your members have next to zero contact with newbies.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
720
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:03:00 -
[143] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Whereas you may still train newbies, the primary function of the University for the majority of your members is certainly not training. Most of your members have next to zero contact with newbies.
So, then just what is it? Carebearing maybe?
I hate to repeat myself, but as in your other thread, "proof or STFU".
Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
159
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:04:00 -
[144] - Quote
I really really really
really
don't get what all this high-sec drama is all about. Didn't even know that high-sec could breed drama... this sounds so out of place to me.. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:08:00 -
[145] - Quote
Well let me explain. Kelduum the Shadow CSM wants to remove all pvp from high sec and Poetic is against it. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
113
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:12:00 -
[146] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Whereas you may still train newbies, the primary function of the University for the majority of your members is certainly not training. Most of your members have next to zero contact with newbies. So, then just what is it? Carebearing maybe? You're using your No-WSOP month as proof that your corporation is full of ravenous, war-hungry students? If so, then why the need for a 19 corporation decshield? If you guys aren't carebears and you love PvP so much, why not invite it on a constant basis. Be the next RvB. (Oh right, because whereas a month was a novelty, war all the time would lose you 1000 carebears, and without numbers, and the pretend notion that you're mostly filled with newbies, CCP would pay you ****-all attention.)
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Darian Reymont
EVE University Ivy League
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:15:00 -
[147] - Quote
Did you know that I am actually the popular actor, Bruce Boxleitner? You may remember me from my roles as Tron in the Tron movies and Captain John Sheridan the popular sci-fi series, Babylon 5.
What's that? Proof? Err... did you know I am actually the popular actor, Bruce Boxleitner? Director of Human Resources EVE University |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:16:00 -
[148] - Quote
We know you are Bruce Boxleitner. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:21:00 -
[149] - Quote
Ogi Talvanen wrote:Well let me explain. Kelduum the Shadow CSM wants to remove all pvp from high sec and Poetic is against it.
No no, get it straight.
Mittens is actually a puppet of Kelduum's.
The whole thing about Mittens' thing "0.0 good, high sec bad" is part of an extremely complicated ploy of Kelduum's. He has been working on it for years. Kelduum tried explaining it to me once, but my eyes started bleeding because it was way too devious for me to understand. His plan is reaching end game soon.
Kelduum does not want to remove PvP from high sec, he wants to remove ALL PvP, everywhere. Think how much happier we would all be if we would all laid down our pitchforks and lasers, held hands, and sang Kum-By-Ya.
I for one will welcome the new Eve, where peace and prosperity is available to all.
|
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
113
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:25:00 -
[150] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Retention rate is a pretty basic thing in MMOs - especially when it comes to the 2nd and 3rd monthly subs which tend to be the point where players continue to play, so I would have thought that E-UNI having a number of people who have been playing for more than 3 months would be a good thing, especially when you consider we haven't been recruiting much in the last month, people tend to stop playing so end with older characters before they join us, and CCP have been running the "come back to EVE" stuff fairly heavily. And that's great if you help a new player stay with EVE Online past the three month mark. I'm sure a lot of corporations help with that. EVE-Uni might do it slightly better than most.
But ...
EVE University has 1500 members. And like I've stated, a small percentage of those (15%) could be described as newbies, as players requiring training.
EVE University certainly doesn't need 1000 veterans to train 150 newbies, does it? Most of the those 1000 veterans have little at all to do with the newbies. To most its an Incursion corporation, or a research and invention corporation ... it's anything but a training corp. One thousand of your members no longer require training in any aspect of this game.
To ensure that you remain a training corp, and are seen as a training corporation, and not this carebear commune you are slowly morphing into, perhaps you should consider some changes:
- Keep a permanent teaching staff of a couple or few hundred.
- Train new players for six months.
- At the end of six months you release them back into the wild.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
|
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
721
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:27:00 -
[151] - Quote
Darian Reymont wrote:Did you know that I am actually the popular actor, Bruce Boxleitner?
Confirming that Darian is actually Bruce.
How could I not give Bruce a job as an E-UNI director after he was on the National Board of Directors of the Screen Actors Guild?
Also, I'm Jeff Bridges, also from Tron (where I was Clu and Flynn!) as well as Iron Man (you may note the similarity) and The Big Lebowski. Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
721
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:32:00 -
[152] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Random attempt to change the subject, complete with numerous failures at basic math.
Repeating myself again, but: "Proof or STFU". Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:35:00 -
[153] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote: Also, I'm Jeff Bridges, also from Tron (where I was Clu and Flynn!) as well as Iron Man (you may note the similarity) and The Big Lebowski.
Nice to meet you Jeff. |
Handsome Hussein
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:36:00 -
[154] - Quote
I get it! Idiotic Stanziel is butthurt because he was kicked from his incursion/research and invention/carebear haven corporation!
Surely that must be the reason. Why else would he generate so much drama and wasted words over how someone else runs their corp? And who truly gives a **** whether Eve-Uni actually teaches PvP/blobbing/PvE/what-have-you? If you think the Uni doesn't do **** for training, don't let their alum join your corp until they've proven otherwise. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
113
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:36:00 -
[155] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Darian Reymont wrote:Did you know that I am actually the popular actor, Bruce Boxleitner? Confirming that Darian is actually Bruce. Is this the genius PR campaign that you and Darian came up with? This is your attempt at controlling the message? LOL. When you can't actually beat the facts, just throw out a bunch of random sh!t. Kudos Kelduum. (Unistas call you a genius quite often, don't they? You've kinda let that go to your head, right?)
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
113
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:38:00 -
[156] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote: And who truly gives a **** whether Eve-Uni actually teaches PvP/blobbing/PvE/what-have-you? Because CCP believes they are, and bends over deeply to accommodate their desires (re: ability to avoid wardecs.)
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Handsome Hussein
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:41:00 -
[157] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Handsome ******* wrote: And who truly gives a **** whether Eve-Uni actually teaches PvP/blobbing/PvE/what-have-you? Because CCP believes they are, and bends over deeply to accommodate their desires (re: ability to avoid wardecs.) The only person who really seems to care is you. If it means that much to you that you can't dec the Uni, ******* petition them for the exploit. From what I can tell, CCP just doesn't want to police that sort of ****, and I can't really blame them because I imagine it'd be fairly hard to track down corp ownership and accounts and figure out if someone actually is using that exploit. Personally, I'd rather they spend that time dealing with RMTers and botting than worrying about how some high-sec alliance can't be deced. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Darian Reymont
EVE University Ivy League
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:43:00 -
[158] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Kelduum Revaan wrote:Darian Reymont wrote:Did you know that I am actually the popular actor, Bruce Boxleitner? Confirming that Darian is actually Bruce. Is this the genius PR campaign that you and Darian came up with? This is your attempt at controlling the message? LOL. When you can't actually beat the facts, just throw out a bunch of random sh!t. Kudos Kelduum. (Unistas call you a genius quite often, don't they? You've kinda let that go to your head, right?) Sorry, I thought we were living in a world where you can claim anything you like without providing any evidence. Director of Human Resources EVE University |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
113
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:47:00 -
[159] - Quote
Darian Reymont wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Kelduum Revaan wrote:Darian Reymont wrote:Did you know that I am actually the popular actor, Bruce Boxleitner? Confirming that Darian is actually Bruce. Is this the genius PR campaign that you and Darian came up with? This is your attempt at controlling the message? LOL. When you can't actually beat the facts, just throw out a bunch of random sh!t. Kudos Kelduum. (Unistas call you a genius quite often, don't they? You've kinda let that go to your head, right?) Sorry, I thought we were living in a world where you can claim anything you like without providing any evidence. members.eveuniversity.org
I already posted the ratios.
Do I have to run a live UStream of me running the app a second time?
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
723
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:52:00 -
[160] - Quote
Darian Reymont wrote:Sorry, I thought we were living in a world where you can claim anything you like without providing any evidence. Hang on, we aren't? Damn. Can I still be Jeff Bridges though?
Poetic Stanziel wrote:I already posted the ratios.
Do I have to run a live UStream of me running the app a second time? No, just providing the results of the app along with how you reached your conclusion so someone can verify it would be fine, rather than just linking to the page. Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
|
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
63
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:59:00 -
[161] - Quote
I love this thread... But I'm starting to become afraid that it's just a big ploy to advertise E-Uni and that you guys are actually good friends. If it isn't the case then it's great how our new CSM still talks to the little guy. Either way it's pretty funny.
I give it a 462.388888 / 500. |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 01:02:00 -
[162] - Quote
Confirming Kelduum and Poetic are big friends. |
Vricrolatious
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 01:06:00 -
[163] - Quote
Thread... wtf?
This is now a WIDot thread
All post from here on in should be as random as possible and filled with ponies! WIDot, Best Dot, Even Sans Dot! -Vric |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
723
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 01:13:00 -
[164] - Quote
Ogi is unfortunately incorrect.
Also, confirming I am not actually Jeff Bridges. As Poetic mentioned in one of his other threads, I'm British and work in IT.
I'm actually David Warner, noted English actor known for being Sark and the MCP (as well as Ed Dillinger) in Tron, three separate characters in Star Trek (Pat Stewart really got the "There are four lights!" line spot on, although I'd rather not talk about the other roles) as well as the "Evil Genius" in Time Bandits (one of my favourite roles!).
So, you see, it's all true. Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 01:20:00 -
[165] - Quote
This thread is actually a pretty nice advert for Eve-Uni.
And I agree with the Goons/Test, OP is making a fool of themselves, as bitter exes tend to, unfortunately |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
723
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 01:25:00 -
[166] - Quote
Vastek, Vricrolatious, you're doing it wrong!
(This thread is now about making a vague claim about something, and then link to something which is related but does not confirm your claim, as Poetic started on the previous page.) Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 03:50:00 -
[167] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:(This thread is now about making a vague claim about something, and then link to a page which is related but does not confirm your claim, as Poetic started on the previous page.) You're exceptionally desperate to pretend that the claims are untrue. Odd, since you have all the data yourself in the EVE database, and you could easily counter-claim with your "facts" with but a few SQL statements.
Odd that you aren't doing that, eh?
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Handsome Hussein
30
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 03:58:00 -
[168] - Quote
Holy ****, what a trainwreck! I can't look away... Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 04:12:00 -
[169] - Quote
Vastek Non wrote:This thread is actually a pretty nice advert for Eve-Uni. If you're a carebear, want to be in a large player-run corporation, and avoid all conflict, while having access to some research and invention slots in the corporation POS. So, yeah, excellent advert.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Azahni Vah'nos
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 04:43:00 -
[170] - Quote
It's a good thing EVE Uni doesn't have bunnies ... because the OP has a pot, and will use it!!!
And if anyone in EVE Uni has Furriers, quick, hide them!!!
p.s. See Fatal Attraction movie as reference for those scratching their heads at the comments. Nex (Cash Shop)-á/ Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna |
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Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
736
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 04:56:00 -
[171] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:I'm working on code to import it all into Google Docs, so people can view and verify the data on their own. I do hope you didn't retrieve the data using something scraping EVE Gate - that kind of thing is an EULA violation as you're supposed to use the API.
Though, of course, if you had the data already, where did it go? It was very careless of you losing it like that after all the work you did to collate the data for all those 1500 characters, especially with the different ratios of characters you keep mentioning.
Oh, and I do also hope you're calculating a characters total time in E-UNI, rather than just their creation date, or the time they joined the corp (either originally or most recently), as they alone won't tell you anything (people do tend to come back to EVE a lot with their old characters when CCP do those offers). I'll let you do the work on calculating that yourself though. Remember to calculate down to the second rather than day or week, or you will lose resolution in the totals.
Poetic Stanziel wrote:If you're a carebear, want to be in a large player-run corporation, and avoid all conflict, while having access to some research and invention slots in the corporation POS. So, yeah, excellent advert. You know, if you keep mentioning stuff like that, people will start to think you are upset because you were kicked out...
--
David WaKelduum Revaan Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Poetic Stanzitroll
BLOG University
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 05:07:00 -
[172] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Odd, since you have all the data yourself in the E-UNI database, and you could easily counter-claim with your "facts" with but a few SQL statements.
I recommend "GRANT SELECT ON `Secret_CSM_FILES_DB` TO `Poetic Stanzitroll`; DROP USER `Kelduum Revann`;"
Then maybe an ajax or curl call to my blog. -Check out my blog, it's the best! |
Jovan Geldon
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
69
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 05:22:00 -
[173] - Quote
itstimetostopposting.jpg |
Khandu Eesi
EVE University Ivy League
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 05:55:00 -
[174] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote: This
????
|
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 06:09:00 -
[175] - Quote
Khandu Eesi wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote: This A long time ago, sir. My opinion has changed. ;)
How are you doing, Khandu? How's the training regimen going?
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 06:13:00 -
[176] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:You know, if you keep mentioning stuff like that, people will start to think you are upset because you were kicked out... If I was kicked out, why would you have awarded me a graduate medal? You suggested it would be in everyone's best interest, and I took your advice. I dropped roles, waited 24 hours, and then, just before I left, you awarded me my medal.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Kengutsi Akira
37
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 06:16:00 -
[177] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Ogi is unfortunately incorrect. Also, confirming I am not actually Jeff Bridges. As Poetic mentioned in one of his other threads, I'm British and work in IT. I'm actually David Warner, noted English actor known for being Sark and the MCP (as well as Ed Dillinger) in Tron, three separate characters in Star Trek (Pat Stewart really got the "There are four lights!" line spot on, although I'd rather not talk about the other roles) as well as the "Evil Genius" in Time Bandits (one of my favourite roles!). So, you see, it's all true.
This WOULD be funny if true Given he's 70, wonder if there are any older EVE players O.o |
Lovelocke
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
34
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 08:17:00 -
[178] - Quote
Azelor Delaria wrote:Lovelocke wrote:More tears about the uni haha love it. I love how griefers use "legitimate" mechanics which happen to help them, such as neut RR etc, but as soon as their targets use a legitimate mechanic they cry more tears than they've ever collected!
Oh and Poetic, can't really say much more. Kinda thought you would be letting your hardon die down and move on. Obviously not. I'm personally all for every single advantage given to e-uni because they actually do a hell of a lot for the game and all of you faggots filling the thread with tears; what the **** have you done for the game? Exactly, now stfu and do one. That's just it...it wasn't a legit mechanic. It was, and should by all rights, still be considered an exploit.
But it is now, amiright? What about all of the faggoty things griefers used to do which became exploits? E-uni is simply using a game mechanic so stop ******* whining like a little ******* ***** and carry on using your ****** neutral RR's like the big ******* ****** you are. |
T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 08:25:00 -
[179] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:Kelduum Revaan wrote:Ogi is unfortunately incorrect. Also, confirming I am not actually Jeff Bridges. As Poetic mentioned in one of his other threads, I'm British and work in IT. I'm actually David Warner, noted English actor known for being Sark and the MCP (as well as Ed Dillinger) in Tron, three separate characters in Star Trek (Pat Stewart really got the "There are four lights!" line spot on, although I'd rather not talk about the other roles) as well as the "Evil Genius" in Time Bandits (one of my favourite roles!). So, you see, it's all true. This WOULD be funny if true Given he's 70, wonder if there are any older EVE players O.o
I know of two dutch brothers who are both over 70 (in their 80s I believe) who play eve, and use it as a means of keeping contact, plus they get to play with eachother like when they were young... :)
CSM 4 Alt2, CSM5 Alt1 / Rage Quit, CSM6 Fail Candidate Hasbeen Ragequitting Creator of New Edens Largest Non-Profit Events
derp. |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
232
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 09:46:00 -
[180] - Quote
Please refrain from real-life political discussions in this thread.
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
|
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Darian Reymont
EVE University Ivy League
36
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 11:36:00 -
[181] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Kelduum Revaan wrote:You know, if you keep mentioning stuff like that, people will start to think you are upset because you were kicked out... If I was kicked out, why would you have awarded me a graduate medal? We all make mistakes, Poetic. We were even considering you for management position at one point - lucky escape! Director of Human Resources EVE University |
Cipher Jones
93
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 15:19:00 -
[182] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:There are two CSMs in this game. The one that the players voted for. And EVE University. The recent wardec policy changes are proof of EVE University, via Kelduum Revaan, being the other de facto CSM. CCP caters to their needs, without any oversight by the players. They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. They can turn it on or off at their whim. Their decshield is 19 corporations strong, and they've been allowed to use an exploit to avoid the CONCORD costs of that decshield. The only single danger left for them is the suicide gank. Any other method of PvP against them is fruitless.
So the CSM get something approved that is desired by an overwhelming majority of players and its bad? They finally pull out a win/win and you cry about it?
Oh, and you mean mechanic formerly regarded as exploit. Just to clarify.
If you want to kill nubs you're a sad piece of work, and if you can't find anybody to kill in New Eden, biomass now and save yourself the imminent tears.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 16:09:00 -
[183] - Quote
Darian Reymont wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Kelduum Revaan wrote:You know, if you keep mentioning stuff like that, people will start to think you are upset because you were kicked out... If I was kicked out, why would you have awarded me a graduate medal? We all make mistakes, Poetic. We were even considering you for management position at one point, before you showed how mental you are. Not considering. I was offered it twice. Media Manager. I turned it down both times. Not my thing. But it was nice to get the offer and I thanked the offerees.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 16:13:00 -
[184] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:If you want to kill nubs you're a sad piece of work, and if you can't find anybody to kill in New Eden, biomass now and save yourself the imminent tears. No player-run corporation in this game should be able to recuse themselves from the sandbox.
This policy change allows every highsec corporation to do just that, avoid all non-consensual highsec PvP except the suicide gank.
And EVE University is not a corp filled with newbs. The majority of their members are a year old or older. It is a carebear corporation.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
511
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 16:19:00 -
[185] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:No player-run corporation in this game should be able to recuse themselves from the sandbox.
This policy change allows every highsec corporation to do just that, avoid all non-consensual highsec PvP except the suicide gank. Yes, but at least it'll be cheap!
Only 2M. Pre-order now! GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Asuka Smith
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 16:29:00 -
[186] - Quote
Empire PVP is awful anyways, it's got all the problems of lowsec and then on top of that a million neuts and RR exploits and blah blah blah. In 0.0 you avoid this BS, fight like men, AND it's not like people stay in EVE-Uni for their entire career. More targets for me when they get big fish small pond syndrone and form an alliance like CVA. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 16:31:00 -
[187] - Quote
Asuka Smith wrote:AND it's not like people stay in EVE-Uni for their entire career. You would be surprised.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
97
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 16:34:00 -
[188] - Quote
And what I find interesting about this thread.
That EVE university has to have a war dec shield. And the number of people in NPC corps because of war dec's. Something is wrong with this picture.
|
Cipher Jones
93
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 16:38:00 -
[189] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:If you want to kill nubs you're a sad piece of work, and if you can't find anybody to kill in New Eden, biomass now and save yourself the imminent tears. No player-run corporation in this game should be able to recuse themselves from the sandbox. This policy change allows every highsec corporation to do just that, avoid all non-consensual highsec PvP except the suicide gank. And EVE University is not a corp filled with newbs. The majority of their members are a year old or older. It is a carebear corporation.
If you only play Eve to grief, this policy may make you asshurt enough to quit over it.
And if you only play Eve to grief and you've been doing it a while you've made people quit.
If you only play Eve to carebear and have been harassed by griefers this policy would likely make you wish to stay/rejoin.
Furthermore, griefing is in fact against the eula, but it is rarely enforced.
CCP could choose to leave the rules intact and simply ban the griefers, but this course of action would result in a loss in income. CCP chose to change one rule so that they wouldn't have to enforce 2 rules. Its funny how people only cry about the one that effects then negatively. i.e. you are harassing Caldari Citzen10917 in game, he corp jumps, you cry. You would cry a lot harder if CCP banned your ass for harassment, which they have explicitly reserved the right to do.
And of course, this is so they can work on important stuff like FiS instead of mediate.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 16:43:00 -
[190] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:If you want to kill nubs you're a sad piece of work, and if you can't find anybody to kill in New Eden, biomass now and save yourself the imminent tears. No player-run corporation in this game should be able to recuse themselves from the sandbox. This policy change allows every highsec corporation to do just that, avoid all non-consensual highsec PvP except the suicide gank. And EVE University is not a corp filled with newbs. The majority of their members are a year old or older. It is a carebear corporation. If you only play Eve to grief, this policy may make you asshurt enough to quit over it. And if you only play Eve to grief and you've been doing it a while you've made people quit. If you only play Eve to carebear and have been harassed by griefers this policy would likely make you wish to stay/rejoin. Furthermore, griefing is in fact against the eula, but it is rarely enforced. So, basically killing anyone in highsec (without a wardec), you would call griefing and/or harassment?
Quote:And of course, this is so they can work on important stuff like FiS instead of mediate. That's the GM job. To mediate. They don't code. They don't work on FiS. They are the customer service reps.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
511
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 16:48:00 -
[191] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:If you only play Eve to grief, this policy may make you asshurt enough to quit over it. The problem is that this won't affect griefers in any way.
It probably won't affect the nuisance deccers all that much, but it does affect proper warfare something immensely. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Handsome Hussein
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 16:59:00 -
[192] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It probably won't affect the nuisance deccers all that much either, since they'll just switch methods to get their killmails, but it does affect proper warfare something immensely. Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much such a decshield costs on a weekly basis? Seems to me that would be a pretty big ISK sink.
FWIW the only non-consensual PvP I worry about in high-sec is suiciding or aggression mechanics. If my corp gets war-deced and I don't want to deal with it, I would simply drop corp and come back when the nuisance is gone.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Uni (and Tippia in a month) have essentially created NPC corps for a weekly fee. Where's the problem here, tax rate or something? The Uni already has a pretty stiff tax rate IIRC. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:03:00 -
[193] - Quote
Awwww......ONE alliance in the whole of Eve that you can't war dec and you want to cry....
Boo hoo, maybe you'll have to war dec someone that will actually fight back this time... I am a Pod Pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1109/Hostile-Takeover-by-Marek-Okon[1].jpg
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:04:00 -
[194] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but the Uni (and Tippia in a month) have essentially created NPC corps for a weekly fee. Where's the problem here, tax rate or something? The Uni already has a pretty stiff tax rate IIRC.
Kelduum Revaan wrote:"I have been in communication with CCP about various things. Some time ago I did make a list of ways to improve our teaching facilities ... amongst them was adding E-UNI to the CONCORD NPC faction in game. ( source)
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Handsome Hussein
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:15:00 -
[195] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Handsome ******* wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but the Uni (and Tippia in a month) have essentially created NPC corps for a weekly fee. Where's the problem here, tax rate or something? The Uni already has a pretty stiff tax rate IIRC. Kelduum Revaan wrote:"I have been in communication with CCP about various things. Some time ago I did make a list of ways to improve our teaching facilities ... amongst them was adding E-UNI to the CONCORD NPC faction in game. ( source) Yeah, I've read that several times while you were making a fool out of yourself. What's the issue? Also, Kelduum has repeatedly stated that he has never petitioned or asked CCP for special treatment, regardless of what was actually on his list. I have no reason to believe you over him, especially since he could just be trolling the village idiot Stanziel. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:18:00 -
[196] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Handsome ******* wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but the Uni (and Tippia in a month) have essentially created NPC corps for a weekly fee. Where's the problem here, tax rate or something? The Uni already has a pretty stiff tax rate IIRC. Kelduum Revaan wrote:"I have been in communication with CCP about various things. Some time ago I did make a list of ways to improve our teaching facilities ... amongst them was adding E-UNI to the CONCORD NPC faction in game. ( source) Yeah, I've read that several times while you were making a fool out of yourself. What's the issue? Also, Kelduum has repeatedly stated that he has never petitioned or asked CCP for special treatment, regardless of what was actually on his list. Making a list of how E-Uni's existence in EVE could be improved and then handing that list to CCP ... that's not asking for special treatment? How would you describe that then?
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Handsome Hussein
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:20:00 -
[197] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Making a list of how E-Uni's existence in EVE could be improved and then handing that list to CCP ... that's not asking for special treatment? How would you describe that then? So, even if he did, I don't see any special treatment being handed out. Tippia is about to use the same mechanic to (hopefully) turn a profit. Please explain to me where all the fuss is. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:21:00 -
[198] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:And what I find interesting about this thread.
That EVE university has to have a war dec shield. And the number of people in NPC corps because of war dec's. Something is wrong with this picture.
If there's something wrong with this picture we should all start thinking what's the cause of it.
It's not the new "shield" or the NPC corps. It's how player corps run, the time play requirements in those, the notion of KB stats where you get warnings because you've got ganked 5 times this month and only made 2 poor kils, Ring bell CTA's.
Those you mentioned mean some freedom, everything else doesn't. That's the problem when the game notion becomes a second job. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:23:00 -
[199] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Making a list of how E-Uni's existence in EVE could be improved and then handing that list to CCP ... that's not asking for special treatment? How would you describe that then? So, even if he did, I don't see any special treatment being handed out. Tippia is about to use the same mechanic to (hopefully) turn a profit. Please explain to me where all the fuss is. I contend that this wardec policy change was to benefit the Uni ... that it actually affects all highsec corporations just gives it the appearance that no favouritism was involved.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Handsome Hussein
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:25:00 -
[200] - Quote
I contend that this wardec policy change was to benefit the Uni ... that it actually affects all highsec corporations just gives it the appearance that no favouritism was involved.[/quote] Even if it was done to benefit a carebear learning institute, who ******* cares? Anyone can use the mechanic. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
|
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:28:00 -
[201] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:I contend that this wardec policy change was to benefit the Uni ... that it actually affects all highsec corporations just gives it the appearance that no favouritism was involved. Even if it was done to benefit a carebear learning institute, who ******* cares? Anyone can use the mechanic. Making yourself immune to wardecs should be available to nobody.
There should be some sort of system in place (bidding system?) where some wardecs will get through and some won't ... depending on how much you want to pay to initiate or avoid. The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
511
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:31:00 -
[202] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote:Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much such a decshield costs on a weekly basis? Seems to me that would be a pretty big ISK sink. If you absolutely have to go with a decshield, it depends on how high you want the cost for the enemy to be. The wiki provides us with the formula:
B * (N +1) * (W + 1), where B = Base Price (2M for a corp, 50M for an alliance), N = number of wars you currently have (1 for your shielddeccing corp), W = number of wars currently against the target corporation (which is the number you're aiming to inflate with the shield).
For a single corp, though, joining and leaving a decshedding alliance will probably be cheaper (only 2M a month in upkeep fee per corp, which the alliance will probably want to recoup as a fee), and will also have more effect (since you get rid of the wardec entirely, instead of just making it more expensive).
Quote:Correct me if I'm wrong but the Uni (and Tippia in a month) have essentially created NPC corps for a weekly fee. Where's the problem here, tax rate or something? The Uni already has a pretty stiff tax rate IIRC. The problem is that this makes wardecs in highsec pointless. If I want to save my POSes from someone who wants GÇ£myGÇ¥ moon, then I can just evade the wardec that is needed to get rid of it, and no-one will ever be able to disrupt my S&I activities there.
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
P42ALPHA
nul-li-fy Atlas.
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:37:00 -
[203] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Sara XIII wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Jessie Kenan wrote:I wouldn't mind if Estel Corp did the same, but of course they don't need to since they don't attract the ***** wardecs as they're not full of noobs. Neither is EVE University. You've been misled. Only 15% of their total membership are characters less than three months old. Can you back this up? Poetic never lets things like facts or proof get in the way of his obsession with the uni.
After reading some of this thread, I got too yours. Never have I laughted so hard. SO SO True |
Handsome Hussein
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:39:00 -
[204] - Quote
Tippia wrote:B * (N +1) * (W + 1), where B = Base Price (2M for a corp, 50M for an alliance), N = number of wars you currently have (1 for your shielddeccing corp), W = number of wars currently against the target corporation (which is the number you're aiming to inflate with the shield). So quite a bit. CCP might just be thinking "rather than deal with all these petitions that are kind of hard to prove, we just let them have the ISK sink."
Tippia wrote:The problem is that this makes wardecs in highsec pointless. If I want to save my POSes from someone who wants GÇ£myGÇ¥ moon, then I can just evade the wardec that is needed to get rid of it, and no-one will ever be able to disrupt my S&I activities there. I gathered that much, and that is really the only problem I see. Here is where I see petitioning working to alleviate the problem, until and if high-sec warfare gets a facelift (which apparently it needs?) Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:45:00 -
[205] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote:Tippia wrote:B * (N +1) * (W + 1), where B = Base Price (2M for a corp, 50M for an alliance), N = number of wars you currently have (1 for your shielddeccing corp), W = number of wars currently against the target corporation (which is the number you're aiming to inflate with the shield). So quite a bit. CCP might just be thinking "rather than deal with all these petitions that are kind of hard to prove, we just let them have the ISK sink." Kelduum has already stated that they are avoiding a large proportion of the costs. Normally their nineteen corporation decshield would cost 72B ISK per month to maintain ... they are only paying a small fraction of that cost. So the ISK sink argument doesn't come into play either. The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Handsome Hussein
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:46:00 -
[206] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Kelduum has already stated that they are avoiding a large proportion of the costs. Normally their nineteen corporation decshield would cost 72B ISK per month to maintain ... they are only pay a small fraction of that cost. So the ISK sink argument doesn't come into play either. Link? Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:52:00 -
[207] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Kelduum has already stated that they are avoiding a large proportion of the costs. Normally their nineteen corporation decshield would cost 72B ISK per month to maintain ... they are only pay a small fraction of that cost. So the ISK sink argument doesn't come into play either. Link?
Kelduum Revaan wrote:As far as the mechanic or mechanics used to prevent the wars costing us up to 72 billion ISK per month, I would rather not go into detail, as although I have had confirmation from CCP it is fine, the mechanic could be used in other ways - similarly, I would rather people didn't speculate as to this, at least in public, although I'm certain that a few of you may know how it works. Lets just call it a special E-UNI "sekrit"... ( source)
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 17:53:00 -
[208] - Quote
Today, I found a way around the decshield for EVE University. I checked with a GM to make sure it wouldn't be considered an exploit, and was informed that it was not. However, there is a portion that falls under the "grey area" (it would make it impossible for the decced corporation/alliance to toggle mutual on any wars they currently have). It also would put the dec fee at a flat rate, instead of it increasing exponentially.
The GM escalated me to make sure that they were correct, so once I have a clear answer, I will post how to get around the EVE University dec shield.
Sometimes, coming up with a solution while bitching about the problem works wonder. :D |
Handsome Hussein
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 18:05:00 -
[209] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Kelduum Revaan wrote:As far as the mechanic or mechanics used to prevent the wars costing us up to 72 billion ISK per month, I would rather not go into detail, as although I have had confirmation from CCP it is fine, the mechanic could be used in other ways - similarly, I would rather people didn't speculate as to this, at least in public, although I'm certain that a few of you may know how it works. Lets just call it a special E-UNI "sekrit"... ( source) I get a lot of things from that, but not that CCP is providing the goods. Rather, they are saying that whatever the Uni is doing to get that ISK is fine.
Could be anything, from RMT to Uni management to buy PLEX (might explain the recent price hikes...) to market manipulation. And I get that the mechanic is in-game, so all that extra income that could be going to shiny new ******* ships is instead being used to make an NPC corp. ISK sink.
Again, you're failing to convince me that others couldn't do the exact same thing. Rather than getting up in the Uni's **** and thinking they're special for some reason (and obsessing over it), why don't you do something productive to outline the problem like Tippia? Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Andrea Griffin
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 18:13:00 -
[210] - Quote
Not that one person matters much, but I would occasionally make donations to Eve Uni and send new pilots looking for a corporation there as well. I will no longer do so and will, in fact, discourage new players from joining. This is absolutely inappropriate behavior and against the spirit of Eve. It's not you guys who need to repair what has been broken, it's us. CCP Wrangler |
|
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 18:18:00 -
[211] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Kelduum Revaan wrote:As far as the mechanic or mechanics used to prevent the wars costing us up to 72 billion ISK per month, I would rather not go into detail, as although I have had confirmation from CCP it is fine, the mechanic could be used in other ways - similarly, I would rather people didn't speculate as to this, at least in public, although I'm certain that a few of you may know how it works. Lets just call it a special E-UNI "sekrit"... ( source) I get a lot of things from that, but not that CCP is providing the goods. Rather, they are saying that whatever the Uni is doing to get that ISK is fine. Again, you're failing to convince me that others couldn't do the exact same thing. I'm sure the method is open to all. But I doubt more than a handful know how to do it.
The one method is to simply dec an alliance-less corp multiple times, then move that corp into an alliance. All those wars now apply to the alliance for the next calculation. Corp deccing is cheaper than alliance deccing. That method is not what the Uni is doing, since Ivy League membership remains unchanged.
At any rate ... the point is that the ISK sink argument for decshields is moot. There are methods to make creating decshields inexpensive. You don't need to create your decshield at the alliance rate, you can create it at the corporate rate.
Quote: Rather than getting up in the Uni's **** and thinking they're special for some reason (and obsessing over it), why don't you do something productive to outline the problem like Tippia? I have. I haven't gone into any detail on how to fix it ... I'll leave that for others ... but I have pointed out the big big problem here (without mentioning the Uni), is that it is now impossible to engage highsec corps (other than through suicide ganking.) That removes them all from the sandbox ... they are now, in essence, NPC corps, but with all the benefits of a player-run corporation.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Orion GUardian
50
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 18:29:00 -
[212] - Quote
Ogi Talvanen wrote:Confirming Kelduum and Poetic are big friends.
I am selling proof in form of images of them both drinking Sake in a jacuzzi for 100m ISK. Uploaded to a safe location where I provide you a DL link. Just send me the ISK ingame and I will contact you |
Handsome Hussein
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 18:34:00 -
[213] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:The one method is to simply dec an alliance-less corp multiple times, then move that corp into an alliance. All those wars now apply to the alliance for the next calculation. Corp deccing is cheaper than alliance deccing. That method is not what the Uni is doing, since Ivy League membership remains unchanged. So... How is what the Uni doing worse than this? I don't get why the Uni even factors into this... Right. You're completely ******* mental over them.
Poetic Stanziel wrote:I have. I haven't gone into any detail on how to fix it ... I'll leave that for others ... but I have pointed out the big big problem here (without mentioning the Uni), is that it is now impossible to engage highsec corps (other than through suicide ganking.) That removes them all from the sandbox ... they are now, in essence, NPC corps, but with all the benefits of a player-run corporation. This is a well-thought out statement, makes a lot of sense and is a great argument. But you ****** it up by getting all tinfoil mental over the Uni (who aren't even using the corp-cost mechanic to cheapen their decshield!).
Wow.
You really need to get over them if you're going to be at all productive. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Cerulean Ice
EVE University Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 18:47:00 -
[214] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:No player-run corporation in this game should be able to recuse themselves from the sandbox.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
merriam-webster definition of recuse
- to disqualify (oneself) as judge in a particular case; broadly
- to remove (oneself) from participation to avoid a conflict of interest
merriam-webster definition of conflict of interest
- a conflict between the private interests and the official responsibilities of a person in a position of trust
|
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 18:58:00 -
[215] - Quote
Handsome ******* wrote:But you ****** it up by getting all tinfoil mental over the Uni (who aren't even using the corp-cost mechanic to cheapen their decshield!). They're using a different, as yet unknown (except by a handful of people) method. Either way ... same difference.
The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 19:01:00 -
[216] - Quote
Cerulean Ice wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:No player-run corporation in this game should be able to recuse themselves from the sandbox. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
- to remove (oneself) from participation to avoid a conflict of interest
You are correct, sir. I guess I knew what the first half meant (to remove (oneself) from participation), but was unaware of the conflict of interest portion of the meaning.
Thanks. I'll use "remove" instead. The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 19:30:00 -
[217] - Quote
Alrighty, still no word from the GM, but I just want to say the following.
A few months ago, CCP decided to remove the ability to make ships unprobable. This was done to GÇ£facilitateGÇ¥ more PvP, while also using the excuse that GÇ£no one should ever be truly safeGÇ¥ in EVE. The sandbox should not be so closed as to prevent combat between players. Carebears cried about this, of course, and IGÇÖll admit I was one of them before I realized I didnGÇÖt truly care. I would just play a bit smarter and there we would go.
However, in the span of roughly six months, CCP has done a complete reversal of the GÇ£HTFUGÇ¥ stance. They have made it so corporations can be immune (or, rather, close to it) to war decs. They are creating a situation where you can legally close off your space. The sandbox for these people becomes only the people in the corporation and alliance, with everyone else becoming a nuisance at best.
Why is this? There is no way to say EVE University now becomes GÇ¥dec-proofGÇ¥, something that Kelduum has wanted, if his posts are to be believed and that it wasn't something they wanted. Whether Poetic is right in Kelduum negotiating with CCP to implement such a thing is trivial. What matters is that the sandbox has been destroyed. Whether you agree with high sec PvP being legitimate or not, you have to understand itGÇÖs only a matter of time before other things come down the line that affect low-security space and null-security space. WhatGÇÖs next? Reintroduction of GÇ£unprobableGÇ¥ ships? Increasing the DPS of the sentry guns in low sec so that they insta-pop even a battleship?
Tinfoil hattery or not, this has real and drastic consequences to all aspects of EVE Online. This now becomes a game of who has the most money. Ships were never to be balanced around price, so why should anything else? |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
748
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 19:33:00 -
[218] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:And EVE University is not a corp filled with newbs. The majority of their members are a year old or older. It is a carebear corporation. So, a care-bear corporation with 50B in kills and losses in the last month (interesting definition of carebear), and rather than just being over 3 months old as they were earlier in the thread, they're now over a year old? Finished collating your data again have you Poetic? If so, please do show the rest of the class.
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Handsome ******* wrote:But you ****** it up by getting all tinfoil mental over the Uni (who aren't even using the corp-cost mechanic to cheapen their decshield!). They're using a different, as yet unknown (except by a handful of people) method. Except that you already quoted a post in the original thread which explained at least one way to avoid part of the cost.
You're going round in circles again Poetic... I guess we will be back here again tomorrow with your claims getting bigger.
Pro Tip: If you're going to make stuff up, try to have at least have some proof with it, and stick to the made up things - don't just try and make them worse when you are found out.
Also, I'm still David Warner. Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 19:37:00 -
[219] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:And EVE University is not a corp filled with newbs. The majority of their members are a year old or older. It is a carebear corporation. So, a care-bear corporation with 50B in kills and losses in the last month (interesting definition of carebear) Any corporation that needs a 19 corp decshield to protect them from mean people and baddies ... that's a carebear corporation. How many kills and losses will you have over the next month?
Quote:Pro Tip: If you're going to make stuff up, try to have at least have some proof with it, and stick to the made up things - don't just try and make them worse when you are found out. I'm still waiting for you to refute anything I've said.
What God Wants, God Gets, God Help Us All |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
748
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 20:03:00 -
[220] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Quote:Pro Tip: If you're going to make stuff up, try to have at least have some proof with it, and stick to the made up things - don't just try and make them worse when you are found out. I'm still waiting for you to refute anything I've said.
And I have yet to see anything proving any of your (various, and rapidly changing) accusations, or any of the data you claimed you were 're-compiling' after 'apparently' losing it. Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
|
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 20:25:00 -
[221] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Quote:Pro Tip: If you're going to make stuff up, try to have at least have some proof with it, and stick to the made up things - don't just try and make them worse when you are found out. I'm still waiting for you to refute anything I've said. And I have yet to see anything proving any of your (various, and rapidly changing) accusations, or any of the data you claimed you were 're-compiling' after 'apparently' losing it. I never lost anything (that's your spin.) I'm just in the process of inserting it into Google Docs, where folks can analyze and confirm the data for themselves. Little point just pumping out reports on the data, if people can't see the data. What I did was just for me, so I wrote quick and dirty code, with no view to usability. Sort of the Irdalth method of design, except that I don't expect anyone to use it other than myself. What God Wants, God Gets, God Help Us All |
Darian Reymont
EVE University Ivy League
38
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 20:43:00 -
[222] - Quote
I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing your data, Poetic. Director of Human Resources EVE University |
ShipToaster
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 22:49:00 -
[223] - Quote
Place the blame for claiming that eve university is not a newbie corp at my door as I was the one who brought it up initially. The figures I saw mentioned were that newbs of under six months in eve university were under 50% of the total membership and players over a year were 25%. These figures were well over a year old.
Same goes for mentioning that the relationship between eve university and ccp is becoming a concern. I never took this as far as PS but I dont like the idea of any alliance getting special treatment even if it was only CCP asking what they could do to help you.
Handsome ******* wrote:[]Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much such a decshield costs on a weekly basis? Seems to me that would be a pretty big ISK sink.
Taking the eve university 19 corp dec shield as an example the answer to your question is it has no cost if not decced but if decced it costs 950 million per week, possibly more if you dont make the aggressor corps wars mutual, instead of 72 billion.
Method to set one a decshield up is:
1. make all current wars mutual so they do not count in any calculations 2. dec with dec shield corp 3. pay 50 million 4. make this war mutual 5. repeat steps 2 through 4 until you reach desired amount
in eve universities case it would cost 19x50=950 million to set it up.
Kelduum Revaan wrote:So, a care-bear corporation with 50B in kills and losses in the last month (interesting definition of carebear)
I dont think it is fair to use these stats to try to claim you are not a carebear corp as you have been in your wardec event for the last month. Were you not around 2000 members just before your month of fighting started and you lost at least 800 carebears for this event? |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
108
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 22:53:00 -
[224] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:I never lost anything (that's your spin.) I'm just in the process of inserting it into Google Docs, where folks can analyze and confirm the data for themselves. Little point just pumping out reports on the data, if people can't see the data. What I did was just for me, so I wrote quick and dirty code, with no view to usability. Sort of the Irdalth method of design, except that I don't expect anyone to use it other than myself. So you're plugging some random numbers into a Google spreadsheet and using that as proof?
|
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
752
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 23:27:00 -
[225] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:Kelduum Revaan wrote:So, a care-bear corporation with 50B in kills and losses in the last month (interesting definition of carebear) I dont think it is fair to use these stats to try to claim you are not a carebear corp as you have been in your wardec event for the last month. Were you not around 2000 members just before your month of fighting started and you lost at least 800 carebears for this event? Maybe not directly, but it does somewhat call into question Poetics definition of 'carebear', especially as we have been PvPing a fair bit, and will continue to.
Also, while we did have just over 2,000 members before Incarna, the general rage and annoyance at CCP saw the number drop steadily as members move on and some newer players became inactive, pretty much confirming the CSMs stats in-line with the decline in PCU numbers. However this decline has been arrested, to the point where we're seeing it stabilise and slowly recover over the last few weeks.
Edit:Handsome ******* wrote:The Uni already has a pretty stiff tax rate IIRC. Actually, I dropped that to 0.1pct this morning, and it should stay that way for the next month at least. Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Poetic Stanzitroll
BLOG University
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 02:39:00 -
[226] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:I haven't gone into any detail on how to fix it ... I'll leave that for others ... but I have pointed out the big big problem here (without mentioning the Uni), is that it is now impossible to engage highsec corps (other than through suicide ganking.) That removes them all from the sandbox ...
A box without sand is hardly a box at all, It's more like a 5-sided cube. And a sandbox without people is really just a 5-sided cube with sand. The solution is to fill the cube with people and surround it with sand! -Check out my blog, it's the best! |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
116
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 04:19:00 -
[227] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:So you're plugging some random numbers into a Google spreadsheet and using that as proof?
Yeah. What God Wants, God Gets, God Help Us All |
Kengutsi Akira
40
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 04:28:00 -
[228] - Quote
Poetic Stanzitroll wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:I haven't gone into any detail on how to fix it ... I'll leave that for others ... but I have pointed out the big big problem here (without mentioning the Uni), is that it is now impossible to engage highsec corps (other than through suicide ganking.) That removes them all from the sandbox ...
A box without sand is hardly a box at all, It's more like a 5-sided cube. And a sandbox without people is really just a 5-sided cube with sand. The solution is to fill the cube with people and surround it with sand!
Minecraft talk O.o
What Mittani wants, Mittani gets, Mittani help us all
|
Jokerface666
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
54
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 09:50:00 -
[229] - Quote
Karim alRashid wrote:Jokerface666 wrote:So basically you are flaming that it costs now a lot of money to be able to shoot noobs.... instead of going out and engaging somebody of your size....
Actually, the discussed abuse of game mechanics does not differentiate between new and old players, on either side of the war declaration. Also, EVE University are a pretty big size corp, 1300+ members, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the third or fourth largest in EVE. Plus, it has been stated a few times that there are about 300 or so members older than an year in EVE University. All this begs the question: Do you even know what you are talking about or just came here to express you e-hatred against somebody?
Ok i'll esplain it to you,
EVe UNI offers not only education for new pilots, it offers education for older pilots who want to try something else. As an example: if you have only done PVP and some mining for the last 4 years in EVE, and you want to go for industry now for some reason,you either join EVE-UNI or read trough 100 of wiki pages. ------------------------------w00t w00t rapetrain------------------------------ |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 14:40:00 -
[230] - Quote
Azelor Delaria wrote:Alrighty, still no word from the GM, but I just want to say the following.
A few months ago, CCP decided to remove the ability to make ships unprobable. This was done to GÇ£facilitateGÇ¥ more PvP, while also using the excuse that GÇ£no one should ever be truly safeGÇ¥ in EVE. The sandbox should not be so closed as to prevent combat between players. Carebears cried about this, of course, and IGÇÖll admit I was one of them before I realized I didnGÇÖt truly care. I would just play a bit smarter and there we would go.
However, in the span of roughly six months, CCP has done a complete reversal of the GÇ£HTFUGÇ¥ stance. They have made it so corporations can be immune (or, rather, close to it) to war decs. They are creating a situation where you can legally close off your space. The sandbox for these people becomes only the people in the corporation and alliance, with everyone else becoming a nuisance at best.
Why is this? There is no way to say EVE University now becomes GÇ¥dec-proofGÇ¥, something that Kelduum has wanted, if his posts are to be believed and that it wasn't something they wanted. Whether Poetic is right in Kelduum negotiating with CCP to implement such a thing is trivial. What matters is that the sandbox has been destroyed. Whether you agree with high sec PvP being legitimate or not, you have to understand itGÇÖs only a matter of time before other things come down the line that affect low-security space and null-security space. WhatGÇÖs next? Reintroduction of GÇ£unprobableGÇ¥ ships? Increasing the DPS of the sentry guns in low sec so that they insta-pop even a battleship?
Tinfoil hattery or not, this has real and drastic consequences to all aspects of EVE Online. This now becomes a game of who has the most money. Ships were never to be balanced around price, so why should anything else?
Nobody in the Eve university is safe unless they stay in a station 24/7 and NEVER undock. I'm sorry, but what you're saying is all wrong because members are still vulnerable. |
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Wacktopia
Sicarius. Legion of The Damned.
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 14:43:00 -
[231] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:There are two CSMs in this game. The one that the players voted for. And EVE University. The recent wardec policy changes are proof of EVE University, via Kelduum Revaan, being the other de facto CSM. CCP caters to their needs, without any oversight by the players. They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. They can turn it on or off at their whim. Their decshield is 19 corporations strong, and they've been allowed to use an exploit to avoid the CONCORD costs of that decshield. The only single danger left for them is the suicide gank. Any other method of PvP against them is fruitless.
Wanna fight them? Pretty sure I saw EVE Uni roaming low sec in frig blobs last time I was there.
Wanna war-dec them? Make a decent alliance and pay the bil/week fee.
What is exactly the problem here? |
Pherras Williams
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 15:09:00 -
[232] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:There are two CSMs in this game. The one that the players voted for. And EVE University. The recent wardec policy changes are proof of EVE University, via Kelduum Revaan, being the other de facto CSM. CCP caters to their needs, without any oversight by the players. They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. They can turn it on or off at their whim. Their decshield is 19 corporations strong, and they've been allowed to use an exploit to avoid the CONCORD costs of that decshield. The only single danger left for them is the suicide gank. Any other method of PvP against them is fruitless. Wanna fight them? Pretty sure I saw EVE Uni roaming low sec in frig blobs last time I was there. Wanna war-dec them? Make a decent alliance and pay the bil/week fee. What is exactly the problem here?
The problem is they suck at flying spaceships so they go for the "weakest " target they can find thinking that poppin noobs is pro
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Kengutsi Akira
40
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Posted - 2011.10.17 16:22:00 -
[233] - Quote
Pherras Williams wrote:Wacktopia wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:There are two CSMs in this game. The one that the players voted for. And EVE University. The recent wardec policy changes are proof of EVE University, via Kelduum Revaan, being the other de facto CSM. CCP caters to their needs, without any oversight by the players. They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. They can turn it on or off at their whim. Their decshield is 19 corporations strong, and they've been allowed to use an exploit to avoid the CONCORD costs of that decshield. The only single danger left for them is the suicide gank. Any other method of PvP against them is fruitless. Wanna fight them? Pretty sure I saw EVE Uni roaming low sec in frig blobs last time I was there. Wanna war-dec them? Make a decent alliance and pay the bil/week fee. What is exactly the problem here? The problem is they suck at flying spaceships so they go for the "weakest " target they can find thinking that poppin noobs is pro
sounds like everyone else in EVE - again, whats the problem?
What Mittani wants, Mittani gets, Mittani help us all
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ShipToaster
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 04:21:00 -
[234] - Quote
Azelor Delaria wrote:Today, I found a way around the decshield for EVE University. I checked with a GM to make sure it wouldn't be considered an exploit, and was informed that it was not. However, there is a portion that falls under the "grey area" (it would make it impossible for the decced corporation/alliance to toggle mutual on any wars they currently have). It also would put the dec fee at a flat rate, instead of it increasing exponentially.
The GM escalated me to make sure that they were correct, so once I have a clear answer, I will post how to get around the EVE University dec shield.
Sometimes, coming up with a solution while bitching about the problem works wonder. :D
Anything happening on this yet? |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 04:33:00 -
[235] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:......
And this is a problem because ????? OH it isn't fair right. Well Yeh neither is EVE, funny how things look different when the shoe is on the other foot.
People complaining about getting war decc'd for no reason. And now the war decc'rs can complain about not be able to war dec somebody.
Hmmm I call this BALANCE.
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Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
68
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 04:55:00 -
[236] - Quote
Forgive my ignorance but how is the new policy ONLY helping Eve U?
Can't anyone do this? or did I miss something? |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
163
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 07:24:00 -
[237] - Quote
Apollo Gabriel wrote:Forgive my ignorance but how is the new policy ONLY helping Eve U?
Can't anyone do this? or did I miss something? You are correct. The only reason it's getting any attention is because the OP has a grudge against e-uni.
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Cipher Jones
98
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 15:21:00 -
[238] - Quote
Andrea Griffin wrote:Not that one person matters much, but I would occasionally make donations to Eve Uni and send new pilots looking for a corporation there as well. I will no longer do so and will, in fact, discourage new players from joining. This is absolutely inappropriate behavior and against the spirit of Eve.
And ******* with people until it forces them to stop playing a video game is against the spirit of profit, which EvE was designed for.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
ShipToaster
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:11:00 -
[239] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Apollo Gabriel wrote:Forgive my ignorance but how is the new policy ONLY helping Eve U?
Can't anyone do this? or did I miss something? You are correct. The only reason it's getting any attention is because the OP has a grudge against e-uni.
*sigh*
The OP did over sensationalise this and it got off topic quickly but what happened here is important.
What is being said here is a little more complex than it appears on a surface read. The wardec issue itself is of relatively minor importance as is eve universities involvement. This thread does make the claim that there are two CSM's but does not really go into enough detail of the reasoning for this. I dont speak for PS and his reasoning might be very different from mine but I will try to explain it as I see it.
The CSM are the elected representatives and are empowered to discuss issues with CCP. They have access, responsibilities, duties and procedures and this defines what the CSM is. This is the legitimate method that was set up after previous alleged corruption (added alleged and did not say who was involved or when to be careful here but many will know what this is about, find out if you dont know) and is accepted by all eve players to some degree as it is accessible to all eve players.
By directly discussing game changes with player(s) not in the CSM then CCP can be said to have created another CSM like group. CCP have legitimised eve university through their ceo and given them special access similar to that which the CSM has without extending the same opportunity to all other eve players.
For me the problems this raises are trust, openness and fairness.
Trust. I want CCP to be as impartial as they can be. Some decisions on game mechanics will go your way, some wont, but you want to believe that you have been fairly treated. I am assuming that the wardec reversions are temporary and that new mechanics or simply fixed mechanics are coming soon (tm) but if wardec changes favour eve university then I will always think that this decision was based on discussions that most of EVE was unable to participate in. This for me is the issue in a nutshell.
Openness. The CSM are to a large degree open about their dealings with CCP, as are CCP themselves, but I have no minutes describing what was discussed between eve university and CCP. The EN24 article may be referring to this when it talks about secrecy and secret meetings.
Fairness. I have no idea what impact discussions between eve university and CCP will have on EVE. I dont like this. I dont like the fact that all alliances were not asked by CCP what CCP can do to help us.
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Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 16:32:00 -
[240] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Apollo Gabriel wrote:Forgive my ignorance but how is the new policy ONLY helping Eve U?
Can't anyone do this? or did I miss something? You are correct. The only reason it's getting any attention is because the OP has a grudge against e-uni. *sigh* The OP did over sensationalise this and it got off topic quickly but what happened here is important. What is being said here is a little more complex than it appears on a surface read. The wardec issue itself is of relatively minor importance as is eve universities involvement. This thread does make the claim that there are two CSM's but does not really go into enough detail of the reasoning for this. I dont speak for PS and his reasoning might be very different from mine but I will try to explain it as I see it. The CSM are the elected representatives and are empowered to discuss issues with CCP. They have access, responsibilities, duties and procedures and this defines what the CSM is. This is the legitimate method that was set up after previous alleged corruption (added alleged and did not say who was involved or when to be careful here but many will know what this is about, find out if you dont know) and is accepted by all eve players to some degree as it is accessible to all eve players. By directly discussing game changes with player(s) not in the CSM then CCP can be said to have created another CSM like group. CCP have legitimised eve university through their ceo and given them special access similar to that which the CSM has without extending the same opportunity to all other eve players. For me the problems this raises are trust, openness and fairness. Trust. I want CCP to be as impartial as they can be. Some decisions on game mechanics will go your way, some wont, but you want to believe that you have been fairly treated. I am assuming that the wardec reversions are temporary and that new mechanics or simply fixed mechanics are coming soon (tm) but if wardec changes favour eve university then I will always think that this decision was based on discussions that most of EVE was unable to participate in. This for me is the issue in a nutshell. Openness. The CSM are to a large degree open about their dealings with CCP, as are CCP themselves, but I have no minutes describing what was discussed between eve university and CCP. The EN24 article may be referring to this when it talks about secrecy and secret meetings. Fairness. I have no idea what impact discussions between eve university and CCP will have on EVE. I dont like this. I dont like the fact that all alliances were not asked by CCP what CCP can do to help us.
Do you have proof that this is going on? If so, I would love to see it.
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
124
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 19:51:00 -
[241] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:ShipToaster wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Apollo Gabriel wrote:Forgive my ignorance but how is the new policy ONLY helping Eve U?
Can't anyone do this? or did I miss something? You are correct. The only reason it's getting any attention is because the OP has a grudge against e-uni. *sigh* The OP did over sensationalise this and it got off topic quickly but what happened here is important. What is being said here is a little more complex than it appears on a surface read. The wardec issue itself is of relatively minor importance as is eve universities involvement. This thread does make the claim that there are two CSM's but does not really go into enough detail of the reasoning for this. I dont speak for PS and his reasoning might be very different from mine but I will try to explain it as I see it. The CSM are the elected representatives and are empowered to discuss issues with CCP. They have access, responsibilities, duties and procedures and this defines what the CSM is. This is the legitimate method that was set up after previous alleged corruption (added alleged and did not say who was involved or when to be careful here but many will know what this is about, find out if you dont know) and is accepted by all eve players to some degree as it is accessible to all eve players. By directly discussing game changes with player(s) not in the CSM then CCP can be said to have created another CSM like group. CCP have legitimised eve university through their ceo and given them special access similar to that which the CSM has without extending the same opportunity to all other eve players. For me the problems this raises are trust, openness and fairness. Trust. I want CCP to be as impartial as they can be. Some decisions on game mechanics will go your way, some wont, but you want to believe that you have been fairly treated. I am assuming that the wardec reversions are temporary and that new mechanics or simply fixed mechanics are coming soon (tm) but if wardec changes favour eve university then I will always think that this decision was based on discussions that most of EVE was unable to participate in. This for me is the issue in a nutshell. Openness. The CSM are to a large degree open about their dealings with CCP, as are CCP themselves, but I have no minutes describing what was discussed between eve university and CCP. The EN24 article may be referring to this when it talks about secrecy and secret meetings. Fairness. I have no idea what impact discussions between eve university and CCP will have on EVE. I dont like this. I dont like the fact that all alliances were not asked by CCP what CCP can do to help us. Do you have proof that this is going on? If so, I would love to see it. I'm tired of posting the damned links to this question over and over ... someone else can do it ... but Kelduum has admitted several times in forum posts that he discusses changes with CCP devs and has sent them suggestions on fixes that would be helpful to the University.
What God Wants, God Gets, God Help Us All |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
175
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 19:54:00 -
[242] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:I'm tired of posting the damned links to this question over and over ... someone else can do it ... but Kelduum has admitted several times in forum posts that he discusses changes with CCP devs and has sent them suggestions on fixes that would be helpful to the University.
You realize there is nothing wrong with that, right?
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
124
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 19:59:00 -
[243] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:I'm tired of posting the damned links to this question over and over ... someone else can do it ... but Kelduum has admitted several times in forum posts that he discusses changes with CCP devs and has sent them suggestions on fixes that would be helpful to the University.
You realize there is nothing wrong with that, right? As the name of this thread suggests, and as ShipToaster eloquently expanded upon ... its a second, one-man CSM (Kelduum), who has no accountability to anyone but himself, and no vision for the game beyond that of his carebear corporation.
What God Wants, God Gets, God Help Us All |
Handsome Hussein
52
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 20:04:00 -
[244] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:As the name of this thread suggests, and as ShipToaster eloquently expanded upon ... its a second, one-man CSM (Kelduum), who has no accountability to anyone but himself, and no vision for the game beyond that of his carebear corporation. As usual, blowing **** way out of proportion. If Kelduum talked to CCP about something and CCP decided it was a Good Idea to implement, how is that a problem? It's CCP's game and CCP has a right to implement or act upon any suggestion they damn well see fit. They will have to deal with the consequences, but it is still their sole decision. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
177
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 20:05:00 -
[245] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:I'm tired of posting the damned links to this question over and over ... someone else can do it ... but Kelduum has admitted several times in forum posts that he discusses changes with CCP devs and has sent them suggestions on fixes that would be helpful to the University.
You realize there is nothing wrong with that, right? As the name of this thread suggests, and as ShipToaster eloquently expanded upon ... its a second, one-man CSM (Kelduum), who has no accountability to anyone but himself, and no vision for the game beyond that of his carebear corporation. Anybody in the game can talk to CCP about upcoming changes and offer insight and suggestions. It doesn't mean that every person who does so is a separate CSM. You insinuating that it does makes you look like a loon.
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Kengutsi Akira
56
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 20:24:00 -
[246] - Quote
One of the best things this all is doing, mittani and the Goons' hijinks included, is showing CCP what a mindbogglingly ******** idea it was to put together a group of people like the CSM with no way to recall them if they go awry no checks and balances sounds great doesnt it? What Mittani wants, Mittani gets, Mittani help us all
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
177
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 20:42:00 -
[247] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:One of the best things this all is doing, mittani and the Goons' hijinks included, is showing CCP what a mindbogglingly ******** idea it was to put together a group of people like the CSM with no way to recall them if they go awry no checks and balances sounds great doesnt it? If the CSM had gone awry you'd have a point but since they are effective and getting stuff done you just look like a loon.
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Kengutsi Akira
58
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:00:00 -
[248] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Kengutsi Akira wrote:One of the best things this all is doing, mittani and the Goons' hijinks included, is showing CCP what a mindbogglingly ******** idea it was to put together a group of people like the CSM with no way to recall them if they go awry no checks and balances sounds great doesnt it? If the CSM had gone awry you'd have a point but since they are effective and getting stuff done you just look like a loon.
really? please list the things this CSM have done, that can be attributed to them and not where (like in the thread about the winter expansion) they jumped in and started claiming the ideas were theirs What Mittani wants, Mittani gets, Mittani help us all
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
181
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:32:00 -
[249] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Kengutsi Akira wrote:One of the best things this all is doing, mittani and the Goons' hijinks included, is showing CCP what a mindbogglingly ******** idea it was to put together a group of people like the CSM with no way to recall them if they go awry no checks and balances sounds great doesnt it? If the CSM had gone awry you'd have a point but since they are effective and getting stuff done you just look like a loon. really? please list the things this CSM have done, that can be attributed to them and not where (like in the thread about the winter expansion) they jumped in and started claiming the ideas were theirs So you already know everything they have done but you hate Goons so much you refuse to accept the reality. Got it.
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Sealy
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.30 21:09:00 -
[250] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:I'm tired of posting the damned links to this question over and over ... someone else can do it ... but Kelduum has admitted several times in forum posts that he discusses changes with CCP devs and has sent them suggestions on fixes that would be helpful to the University.
You realize there is nothing wrong with that, right? As the name of this thread suggests, and as ShipToaster eloquently expanded upon ... its a second, one-man CSM (Kelduum), who has no accountability to anyone but himself, and no vision for the game beyond that of his carebear corporation.
Ok there is a Third CSM, I was at FanFest and i spoke to the Devs and explained to them that it was it was great how i could make ships unscannable by making the Sensor strenght 2/3 of the ships signature and i suggested they should change this. Hey what did they do... they changed it.
Just after Wh cam out i was speaking to another dev at Fanfest and told them how if you ecm a ship it runs awayand stays outside of range until you switch it off reducing the amount of DPS.. I suggested they change this...
So i must admit i am the third CSM....
What else do you want changing??
Maybe i should change OOC Remote rep with station games. Ohhh lets suggest that you cannot dock and undock more that twice in 30min at the same station....
Get real.... there is only one CSM do you think they are at the beckon call of Kelduum or anyone else? they might speak to Kelduum and ask his advice about how training is going and how they could make it better as they want a high retention rate in the game to make money.
If you think you can do any better join the CSM yourself and change eve. |
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