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Fix Lag
100
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
GM Karidor announced here that wardecs can now be avoided in ways previously considered exploits. There was no accompanying devblog or explanation.
These exploits were considered as such with good reason, because without rules against them all a corporation has to do is create shell corporations which (to sum things up) all toggle decs with each other between mutual and non mutual and have members move between them as needed, and if POSes are threatened then a corporation just has to drop from an alliance and make sure their tower is stronted.
Hoping that players forget to fuel their POSes is a pretty terrible game mechanic. Allowing people damn near impunity to go about in highsec is a pretty terrible game mechanic. Making the entire wardec system require massive amounts of meta-gaming to work is a pretty terrible game mechanic.
And promising to boost CONCORD (which Hilmar recently did via Twitter) while simultaneously nerfing the ability to fight people legitimately in highsec is ludicrously stupid and goes against the very ideal that was Eve.
Why?
Why was it changed?
Why was it changed now, and why was it changed without an overhaul of the wardec system's in-game mechanics?
This change along with anecdotal evidence of meetings between CCP employees and corporation CEOs earlier this year as well as circumstantial evidence (corporation policy change timing) reeks of favoritism towards certain groups.
Remember the Aurora program? You probably don't, because it was shut down years ago after evidence of CCP favoritism when distributing rewards surfaced.
Remember the T2 BPO scandal? CCP sure does. You still can't even say the guy's name who broke the story. CCP played favorites and gave certain groups advantages over others.
Every time CCP has played favorites and tried to hide it, **** has hit the fan and things have ended badly for everyone.
So, give us a good explanation of why the rules were arbitrarily changed for the worse on October 10th. Because your credibility, or at least what little is left, is at stake here. |
Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 08:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
EVE is turning to the mass market, haven't you been paying attention the last 3 years? Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. |
DarkAegix
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
97
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 08:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Perhaps it's so bittervets don't wardec nooby corps for some :elitekills:? |
Fix Lag
100
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Perhaps it's so bittervets don't wardec nooby corps for some :elitekills:?
That's why corporations are allowed to join alliances.
And I'm not surprised to see this argument coming from someone in Red vs. Blue. Grow a pair and risk something bigger than a frigate.
|
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
14
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:And promising to boost CONCORD (which Hilmar recently did via Twitter) while simultaneously nerfing the ability to fight people legitimately in highsec is ludicrously stupid and goes against the very ideal that was Eve. Are you stupid?
Since when was anything like that "promised"? Its because of people like you that CCP has so much problems communicating outside of official channels. |
Fix Lag
101
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Stella SGP wrote:Fix Lag wrote:And promising to boost CONCORD (which Hilmar recently did via Twitter) while simultaneously nerfing the ability to fight people legitimately in highsec is ludicrously stupid and goes against the very ideal that was Eve. Are you stupid? Since when was anything like that "promised"? Its because of people like you that CCP has so much problems communicating outside of official channels.
"HilmarVeigar: @deanasfreddie wow, that's impressive! @ArnarHrafn do we need to take a look at some CONCORD AI upgrades to curb the ganking?"
"ArnarHrafn @HilmarVeigar @deanasfreddie I believe we need to look at it, yes"
Followed by about 5 or 10 tweets from Hilmar about how they want to make CONCORD smarter.
What I'm really saying here is that you should shut up, because you are wrong, and I have evidence to prove it.
|
DarkAegix
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
97
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 08:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote: And I'm not surprised to see this argument coming from someone in Red vs. Blue. Grow a pair and risk something bigger than a frigate.
Says the forum alt. Furthermore, RVB isn't limited to frigs, which shows what you know. (Hint: nothing)
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ArmyOfMe
TEDDYBEARS. Excuses.
22
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dear OP, why are you complaining about the war dec changes seeing as you have never had any kills
And if you dont have the balls to post with your main, then you really shouldnt be the one complaining about how others are avoiding risk.
Am i doin this rite?
CCP, for the love of god boost the deimos..... |
Fix Lag
101
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Oh, sorry, I missed the part where you fly around in T2 ships, battleships, and capitals, killing and podding each other. |
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
14
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:Stella SGP wrote:Fix Lag wrote:And promising to boost CONCORD (which Hilmar recently did via Twitter) while simultaneously nerfing the ability to fight people legitimately in highsec is ludicrously stupid and goes against the very ideal that was Eve. Are you stupid? Since when was anything like that "promised"? Its because of people like you that CCP has so much problems communicating outside of official channels. "HilmarVeigar: @deanasfreddie wow, that's impressive! @ArnarHrafn do we need to take a look at some CONCORD AI upgrades to curb the ganking?" "ArnarHrafn @HilmarVeigar @deanasfreddie I believe we need to look at it, yes" Followed by about 5 or 10 tweets from Hilmar about how they want to make CONCORD smarter. What I'm really saying here is that you should shut up, because you are wrong, and I have evidence to prove it. So you are stupid...
I've seen that post before and how is that a "promise"? Stop acting like a little kid and crying 'you promised' at everything people say. |
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Fix Lag
101
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
If I had a dollar for every time someone whined that I'm a forum alt I'd have more money than Hilmar Veigar after the latest subscription numbers came in. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
51
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Another forum whiner goes to "soon to be forgotten" pool. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
mogwai
Sparks of Insanity
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 08:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote: And promising to boost CONCORD (which Hilmar recently did via Twitter) while simultaneously nerfing the ability to fight people legitimately in highsec is ludicrously stupid and goes against the very ideal that was Eve.
Why?
Why was it changed?
iirc, the last time CONCORD got a 'decent' boost was after the 'Yulai Incident' when Zombie Inc. tanked them to hell and back. Since then, everything in eve has moved forward apart from CONCORD. If you look at skills, new ships etc etc.... CONCORD is starting to look a little 'outdated' (even though they still pack a punch.)
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Fix Lag
101
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Stella SGP wrote: So you are stupid...
I've seen that post before and how is that a "promise"? Stop acting like a little kid and crying 'you promised' at everything people say.
Get out. In the face of mounds of evidence to the contrary, you continue to blatantly display the ideal attributes of an EVE-Online scrub who spends his time running level 4s and mining ice. I'm not talking about Hilmar promising a damn game feature. I'm talking about him mentioning ever-so-not-very-subtly that they will be adjusting CONCORD mechanics once again in response to Goonswarm's suicide ganking. |
DarkAegix
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
97
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 08:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:podding each other. Look! You can see the two brain cells fighting each other!
No podding allowed or necessary.
Again, shows what you know. Nothing.
I assume you enjoy the risk of deploying a battleship blob against a bunch of hulks?
I can assure you that there's more risk in frig vs frig than blob vs Hulk.
So, get your facts straight, post with your main and stop crying. |
Fix Lag
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 08:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
"Blob vs. Hulk..." "But your KB stats don't show any kills" "You're the reason CCP can't communicate"
Oh my god what the hell is wrong with everyone responding to this thread
I should give up now; Einstein was right when he said stupidity was infinite |
ACE McFACE
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 08:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Even if everyone in RvB only flew frigates that would mean theres a lot of fair fights as its not Domi v Frigate but rather Frigates v Frigates. ZE GOGGLES, ZEY DO NOTHING! (Not wearing them so don't waste your time reading this sig) |
ArmyOfMe
TEDDYBEARS. Excuses.
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 08:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:If I had a dollar for every time someone whined that I'm a forum alt I'd have more money than Hilmar Veigar after the latest subscription numbers came in. not whining at all, just pointing out the irony of one risk adverse player complaining about other people being risk adverse
CCP, for the love of god boost the deimos..... |
Fix Lag
101
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
ACE McFACE wrote:Even if everyone in RvB only flew frigates that would mean theres a lot of fair fights as its not Domi v Frigate but rather Frigates v Frigates.
when the hell did this thread become a thread about fair fights in EVE
because those don't exist, you see, and if you think they do then you are playing the wrong game.
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Fix Lag
101
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
ArmyOfMe wrote:Fix Lag wrote:If I had a dollar for every time someone whined that I'm a forum alt I'd have more money than Hilmar Veigar after the latest subscription numbers came in. not whining at all, just pointing out the irony of one risk adverse player complaining about other people being risk adverse
I'M NOT A CHARACTER THAT EVER LOGS IN OTHER THAN THE FORUMS BECAUSE I HAVE A CATCHY NAME WHAT ABOUT THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND |
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ArmyOfMe
TEDDYBEARS. Excuses.
22
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:ArmyOfMe wrote:Fix Lag wrote:If I had a dollar for every time someone whined that I'm a forum alt I'd have more money than Hilmar Veigar after the latest subscription numbers came in. not whining at all, just pointing out the irony of one risk adverse player complaining about other people being risk adverse I'M NOT A CHARACTER THAT EVER LOGS IN OTHER THAN THE FORUMS BECAUSE I HAVE A CATCHY NAME WHAT ABOUT THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND CAPS are cool amirite?
I was hoping this would be a battle of wits, but i guess i won on walkover
CCP, for the love of god boost the deimos..... |
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:Stella SGP wrote: So you are stupid...
I've seen that post before and how is that a "promise"? Stop acting like a little kid and crying 'you promised' at everything people say.
Get out. In the face of mounds of evidence to the contrary, you continue to blatantly display the ideal attributes of an EVE-Online scrub who spends his time running level 4s and mining ice. I'm not talking about Hilmar promising a damn game feature. I'm talking about him mentioning ever-so-not-very-subtly that they will be adjusting CONCORD mechanics once again in response to Goonswarm's suicide ganking. Stupid is indeed an understatement in your case.
What evidence? Did you not used the word "promised"? He simply suggested that Concord should be looked into thats all. |
Fix Lag
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
No, caps mean you are sufficiently stupid to the point that shouting over the internet has become necessary. |
Im Blue
ZC Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
imo ccp just cut back on GM or at least there overtime and this one change allowed them to not investigate and just paste the standard 'sorry for you loss' crap they normally reply with. |
Fix Lag
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Stella SGP wrote:What evidence? Did you not used the word "promised"? He simply suggested that Concord should be looked into thats all.
Oh my god the nightmare never ends |
John Hand
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
not bad, seems like war deccing alliances are crying because they can't pew pew gank people anymore.
Go to Low sec there are a lot of noobs out there for you to kill, and hay....some might actually shoot back at your 5 billion isk dead space fitted bhaalgorn, oh nose! |
Fix Lag
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
God, please kill EVE. We deserve it. |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
51
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:
So, give us a good explanation of why the rules were arbitrarily changed for the worse on October 10th. Because your credibility, or at least what little is left, is at stake here.
"for the worse" is also arbitrary - in case you hadn't realized.
John Hand wrote:not bad, seems like war deccing alliances are crying because they can't pew pew gank people anymore.
I don't see the big problem either. What's the OP afraid of? The only people benefiting from the new rules are newb and mining corps, those who want to fight will still fight back and won't evade you.
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
147
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:So, give us a good explanation of why the rules were arbitrarily changed for the worse on October 10th. Because your credibility, or at least what little is left, is at stake here.
Changed for the worse? Do you realise that it is still possible to pad your killboard with hisec fools by suicide ganking them in mission space or pulling aggro tricks in incursions?
This rule simply ensures that GMs are not faced with complex rules of when it's okay or not okay to do certain things in hisec. Note that this rule does not stop you using neutral reppers, neutral bumpers, neutral fleet boosters, neutral tracking links, neutral remote sensor boosters or neutral scouts. So basically, now all is fair in love and war.
I'll side with Ripard Teg on this one. Piebear tears are truly delicious.
And BTW, when CCP announced they were going to "fix" lag, they didn't mean they were taking lag for a trip to the vet. Sorry to disappoint you.
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Fix Lag
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:And BTW, when CCP announced they were going to "fix" lag, they didn't mean they were taking lag for a trip to the vet. Sorry to disappoint you.
notsureifinsulted.jpg |
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Fix Lag
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
Since apparently this point is lost among all of you rejoicing that you are free to run your level 4 missions in peace (at least until a Goon comes along and ruins your day), let me reiterate it here (I'm iterating on something. How novel.)
IDGAF about not being able to kill highsec people per se. I care that this change was made specifically to benefit one particular group who have been named by Ripard Teg already and that CCP is playing favorites again. |
DarkAegix
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
97
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
ITT Fix Lag learns that he fails at both EVE and forum PVP. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
79
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:God, please kill EVE. We deserve it. You started this horrible thread. Man up and take responsibility.
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Fix Lag
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Fix Lag wrote:God, please kill EVE. We deserve it. You started this horrible thread. Man up and take responsibility.
what have I done
WHAT HAVE I DONE |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
233
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
Wardecs only matter in high sec.
Maybe you should, I dunno, live somewhere else. |
Fix Lag
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Wardecs only matter in high sec.
Maybe you should, I dunno, live somewhere else.
I can't hear you over the sound of me grinding TCUs in Delve |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
143
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Wardecs only matter in high sec.
Apparently not even there, either Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Thorn Galen
The Scope Gallente Federation
72
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
jeez, this issue is going on in this thread as well ? Take the hint and get over it - CCP does not appear to care about it. Again more butthurt. Bye bye thread, it's all been said before. Ad nauseum. The door is not real. |
Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Wardecs only matter in high sec.
Maybe you should, I dunno, live somewhere else.
Maybe you should, I dunno, get some knowledge of the game?
|
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
233
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 09:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Karim alRashid wrote: Maybe you should, I dunno, get some knowledge of the game?
Cry moar, Habib. |
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Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2011.10.14 09:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Karim alRashid wrote: Maybe you should, I dunno, get some knowledge of the game?
Cry moar, Habib.
I don't see me crying, in fact I see you crying and whining and wailing and not even knowing implications of wardecs on the gameplay in lowsec.
BTW, do you even know what "Habib" means? We're not that close.
PS. Still insisting that ship's purpose is determined by the ship's name? |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
234
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 10:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
Wow, you suffer from some serious butthurt. No wonder you're a 4 year old toon and no one wants you in their corp.
An yep, know what it means. Had the displeasure of living in that area of the world for a while. It's called sarcasm. Derp. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Universal Consortium
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 10:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:Jada Maroo wrote:Wardecs only matter in high sec.
Maybe you should, I dunno, live somewhere else. I can't hear you over the sound of me grinding TCUs in Delve
THUS SPAKE LEET PVP-THUSTRA!!! HARKEN, PUBBIES, HARKEN, AND BEG FOR DEATH!!!!!!
Stop posting, please, kthxbai. I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count? |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
412
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 11:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
Fix Lag?
It has. It's gonna be called "Time Dilation"
New alt needed... This one is ****** anyway Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 11:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Wow, you suffer from some serious butthurt. No wonder you're a 4 year old toon and no one wants you in their corp.
Oh the irony, apparently you're so mad that you don't even realize how pathetic you look with such petty insults and desperate attempts at a burn that you pull out of your ass.
Of course, I'm not gonna join a corp just to ~prove~ something to your insignificant persona.
Quote: An yep, know what it means. Had the displeasure of living in that area of the world for a while. It's called sarcasm. Derp.
Translation: Just looked it up in Wikipedia.
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Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
130
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 12:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
Here's how I see it happening.
CCP is recognizing that there is indeed a significant number of users that prefer a safer environment for their gameplay. Yes, Eve's meant to have a degree of danger no matter where you are, but many new users are put off my not fully understanding this, putting most or all of their isk in their first mining barge then having it all blown away. Many quit because of this. Yes, let's admit it, there's a lot of carebears out there and their cash is as good as ours. So, CCP is making high sec a little safer for those people in efforts to retain and draw a larger base of players. Hell... look at the most recent "afk cloaker" megathread... people in there are crying to have cloaking broken so they can be safer even in null space.
Hopefully CCP will draw the line, though, when it comes to making an area safer and retaining the dangerous aspects of Eve at the borders of high sec. I may not completely agree with making high safer, but I can understand why... however to make low/null/wormholes safer really will take away a vital core part of the game... it'll be a dagger in the very heart of Eve.
So, if my advice was worth a damn I'd say this... let it go. Let high sec have a little more safety. In the long run, it may result in someone playing longer that decides it's time to really get out there and experience the "real" Eve. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
494
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 13:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:So, if my advice was worth a damn I'd say this... let it go. Let high sec have a little more safety. In the long run, it may result in someone playing longer that decides it's time to really get out there and experience the "real" Eve. The problem is that it is not GÇ£a little more safetyGÇ¥ GÇö it's complete safety for any and all corp assets in highsec space. POSes can no longer be removed. S&I can no longer be disrupted or interdicted.
GǪand that's nice, I suppose, in a GÇ£completely break the marketGÇ¥ kind of way. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
132
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 15:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:So, if my advice was worth a damn I'd say this... let it go. Let high sec have a little more safety. In the long run, it may result in someone playing longer that decides it's time to really get out there and experience the "real" Eve. The problem is that it is not GÇ£a little more safetyGÇ¥ GÇö it's complete safety for any and all corp assets in highsec space. POSes can no longer be removed. S&I can no longer be disrupted or interdicted. GǪand that's nice, I suppose, in a GÇ£completely break the marketGÇ¥ kind of way.
I know, I know... it's definitely not ideal, just trying to think on a broader scope what may be being thought at the higher levels.
It would be interesting to allow a corp in an alliance to be wardec'd specifically, and having that dec follow the corp whether they stay in the alliance or not. Of course... then you have to consider the mechanics... if I dec Corp X specifically in Alliance Y, the dec should affect the whole alliance (so they can defend their corp) yet if that corp leaves the dec follows them and remains active. If the dec'd corp leaves the alliance the alliance would be "off the hook"... could add an interesting mechanic to the game perhaps?
Hmm... this could use fleshing out, what do you think? Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
66
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 15:21:00 -
[49] - Quote
I have a catchy name, this is no a fourum alt its my main, my reputation rides on this character both in fourum and in space yet I dont get wardecs. Then agian I cannot afford to pvp at the moment. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
496
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 15:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
MehGǪ I think I'm going to set up a wardec-shedding alliance that people can join and leave for a nominal fee.
If they're going to be stupid about it, one might as well try to turn a buck from it.
Only problem is that by the time I've trained the skills, someone else will have done the same (and I can't exactly wardec them to get rid of the competition eitherGǪ ) GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
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Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 15:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:ACE McFACE wrote:Even if everyone in RvB only flew frigates that would mean theres a lot of fair fights as its not Domi v Frigate but rather Frigates v Frigates. when the hell did this thread become a thread about fair fights in EVE because those don't exist, you see, and if you think they do then you are playing the wrong game.
So why is it okay for "leet PvPers" to prey on the weak players (UNFAIRLY), but it's not okay for these same "noobs" to fight back any way they can?
Why is it okay for you to be unfair, but the second the carebears get smart and realize they can get away from your wardecs you all of sudden scream how unfair it is?
Eve is not fair. That's all there is to it. If a carebear makes it really hard for you to kill him then that's perfectly okay, as long as hes not abusing any game mechanics. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 15:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
For the record, to declare so many wardecs on yourself from shell corporations is going to cost isk submitted to CONCORD. Its going to cost more to buy safer safety in highsec, thats an isk sink right there. Not a great reason, but a good enough one not to complain loudly. As for bashing POS...do you really want to do it that bad? And there are plenty of other areas to shoot people, this might be CCP's way of saying "GTFO HIGHSEC!" cause you too are surrounded in perfect safety while your complaining your target's price is insane |
Poetic Stanzitroll
BLOG University
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 15:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:IDGAF about not being able to kill highsec people per se. I care that this change was made specifically to benefit one particular group who have been named by Ripard Teg already and that CCP is playing favorites again.
And I don't think it needs be mentioned who that *cough* UNI *cough* group is.
Fix Lag wrote:when the hell did this thread become a thread about fair fights in EVE
because those don't exist, you see, and if you think they do then you are playing the wrong game.
Exactly. There is nothing fair about alliances using Dec-Shield to avoid fights... or... wait. I'm confused. -Check out my blog, it's the best! |
Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
119
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
The game's mechanics are its rules. Abitrary words posted on an internet forum which are to be manually enforced by incompetent GMs are not how game rules are best implemented.
Either code it into the game mechanics, or allow it to occur naturally. |
Calvaire Democriaties
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.14 16:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
GOD you are all so sad |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
242
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
He mad, bro.
The uncomfortable use of excessive smilies is proportional to the amount of butthurt. I can almost see his pale little nerd-hands shaking in rage. |
Calvaire Democriaties
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.14 16:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
P.S. - I wish life was 'fair' too |
Graelyn
Wolfsbrigade
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:38:00 -
[58] - Quote
Quote:Remember the Aurora program? You probably don't, because it was shut down years ago after evidence of CCP favoritism when distributing rewards surfaced.
That is not what the AURORA debacle was about.
At all.
+ Cardinal Graelyn +
Owner/Operator, "The Summit"
|
Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
To be fair, it's rather a double standard that high sec aggressors frequently use convoluted and hard to understand mechanics to bring PvP to those trying to avoid it - see aggro extension with mission ganking, etc. - and then turn around and cry foul when equally convoluted and ridiculous mechanics are used to avoid it.
Do wardec mechanics need a revision? Yes. Is it bad that GM's have decided to let the current system stand alone on its merits or lack thereof? Not particularly.
I was once in a Merc corp that was hired to remove some Poses- when the corp owning them dropped from alliance we sat there extending aggro on it by shooting mods for six hours after the dec dropped on them until it came out of reinforced, and killed the POS anyway. Where there's a will, there's a way - yes, wardec mechanics need a look, but this is far from the end-of-the-world situation it's being made out to be. |
Written Word
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
34
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 16:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
I have a man on the inside, he told me this.
They have a special coin. If any GM finds a situation where just copy pasting "Go f off, the logs show nothing" may not be the complete answer, they flip said coin. One side says copy paste anyways, and one side says tell the customer its legit. An incredibly useful system with only one drawback. They lose this coin a lot and the whole department has to drop what they are doing and locate this coin again.
Well the metrics came back, the GMs discovered the people ruling on wardecs lose this coin the most. Since there is only one coin and its a massive setback if its lost, changing the rules to always answer yes its legit makes the workplace a more productive place for everybody. |
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Khamal Jolstien
THORN Syndicate BricK sQuAD.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.14 17:01:00 -
[61] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:Fix Lag wrote:ACE McFACE wrote:Even if everyone in RvB only flew frigates that would mean theres a lot of fair fights as its not Domi v Frigate but rather Frigates v Frigates. when the hell did this thread become a thread about fair fights in EVE because those don't exist, you see, and if you think they do then you are playing the wrong game. So why is it okay for "leet PvPers" to prey on the weak players (UNFAIRLY), but it's not okay for these same "noobs" to fight back any way they can? Why is it okay for you to be unfair, but the second the carebears get smart and realize they can get away from your wardecs you all of sudden scream how unfair it is? Eve is not fair. That's all there is to it. If a carebear makes it really hard for you to kill him then that's perfectly okay, as long as hes not abusing any game mechanics.
Because what the "leet PvPers" do isn't unfair. What the GMs are no longer doing their jobs to enforce is a clear exploit.
|
Russell Casey
One Ton THREE WOLF
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 17:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:God, please kill EVE. We deserve it.
And Hilmar heard FixLag's prayer. And He did smile. Then the Almighty spoke, "All Devs to World of Darkness, more Nex products for EVE." And EVE did die. And Hilmar was pleased, for he secretly worked for Lucasarts and Bioware. And the Goons lawled. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 17:31:00 -
[63] - Quote
LAWL!
Come to wormholes, no sov, no war-decs, no "neutral alts", no station games, just pew-pew!
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
243
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 17:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:LAWL!
Come to wormholes, no sov, no war-decs, no "neutral alts", no station games, just pew-pew!
Well let's not exaggerate. Yes, wormholes are awesome. But there are station (POS) games and gate (the WH, especially if it's a HS) games. |
Montevius Williams
Trigger works
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 17:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
Khamal Jolstien wrote:Igualmentedos wrote:Fix Lag wrote:ACE McFACE wrote:Even if everyone in RvB only flew frigates that would mean theres a lot of fair fights as its not Domi v Frigate but rather Frigates v Frigates. when the hell did this thread become a thread about fair fights in EVE because those don't exist, you see, and if you think they do then you are playing the wrong game. So why is it okay for "leet PvPers" to prey on the weak players (UNFAIRLY), but it's not okay for these same "noobs" to fight back any way they can? Why is it okay for you to be unfair, but the second the carebears get smart and realize they can get away from your wardecs you all of sudden scream how unfair it is? Eve is not fair. That's all there is to it. If a carebear makes it really hard for you to kill him then that's perfectly okay, as long as hes not abusing any game mechanics. Because what the "leet PvPers" do isn't unfair. What the GMs are no longer doing their jobs to enforce is a clear exploit.
But thats the thing - the GM's and by that extention, the EVE higher ups, have deemed that its NOT an exploit by coming out and saying "we're not changing anything here, you can keep doing what you're doing." Now, that doesnt mean that they cant change it, and who knows, maybe they will change it soon, but in meantime, its not an exploit per GM's. If it was, they would be banning people - doesnt look like thats happening.
Looks like the carebears won this round of PvP for now.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
497
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 18:08:00 -
[66] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:But thats the thing - the GM's and by that extention, the EVE higher ups, have deemed that its NOT an exploit by coming out and saying "we're not changing anything here, you can keep doing what you're doing." Well, that's just it: they are coming out and saying that they're changing something by no longer considering it an exploit. And let's not kid ourselves here, they had been very clear about it being an exploit up until just a week ago.
The problem here is that it's not something they should say GÇ£keep doing itGÇ¥ about GÇö it's something they should say GÇ£now, you can start doing itGÇ¥. That is why it seems like such a resignation: they can't be bothered to police it so they turn not bothering into a policy and make it legal instead. People who GÇ£keep doing itGÇ¥ are, without any question of a doubt, exploiters who are now given a free pass.
GǪand, of course, then there's the fact that this screws up things immensely in highsec, but a bit of abuse will probably take care of that in due time. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Handsome Hussein
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 18:17:00 -
[67] - Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the biggest issue I see here is that a decshield rules out any possibility of POS-bashing in high-sec. Otherwise it simply turns your alliance/corp into a faux-NPC org, with the associated ISK-sink.
Not being able to remove the offending structure(s) is a big deal. Leaves only the fresh scent of pine. |
Trainwreck McGee
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 18:23:00 -
[68] - Quote
Move to Null Sec noob leave them poor carebears alone CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 18:35:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Montevius Williams wrote:But thats the thing - the GM's and by that extention, the EVE higher ups, have deemed that its NOT an exploit by coming out and saying "we're not changing anything here, you can keep doing what you're doing." Well, that's just it: they are coming out and saying that they're changing something by no longer considering it an exploit. And let's not kid ourselves here, they had been very clear about it being an exploit up until just a week ago. The problem here is that it's not something they should say GÇ£keep doing itGÇ¥ about GÇö it's something they should say GÇ£now, you can start doing itGÇ¥. That is why it seems like such a resignation: they can't be bothered to police it so they turn not bothering into a policy and make it legal instead. People who GÇ£keep doing itGÇ¥ are, without any question of a doubt, exploiters who are now given a free pass. GǪand, of course, then there's the fact that this screws up things immensely in highsec, but a bit of abuse will probably take care of that in due time.
Policing the exploit might not be the issue -- CCP has likely had internal meetings about the decshield matter and what to do about it. It may just be that they couldn't find a way to properly adjust it right now without affecting other systems. It's equally likely that the fix they had in mind would require extended downtime to apply, in which case it makes more sense to bump it around on the schedule a bit, and possibly fit it into a timeslot that will already require extended downtime.
Yes, it's an exploit that's suddenly been given a green light, but there are dozens of potential reasons for why. Frankly, it's time-consuming and pointless to debate those reasons, and I'm going to see what CCP may have set for a more appropriate fix. |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 18:41:00 -
[70] - Quote
Khamal Jolstien wrote:Igualmentedos wrote:Fix Lag wrote:ACE McFACE wrote:Even if everyone in RvB only flew frigates that would mean theres a lot of fair fights as its not Domi v Frigate but rather Frigates v Frigates. when the hell did this thread become a thread about fair fights in EVE because those don't exist, you see, and if you think they do then you are playing the wrong game. So why is it okay for "leet PvPers" to prey on the weak players (UNFAIRLY), but it's not okay for these same "noobs" to fight back any way they can? Why is it okay for you to be unfair, but the second the carebears get smart and realize they can get away from your wardecs you all of sudden scream how unfair it is? Eve is not fair. That's all there is to it. If a carebear makes it really hard for you to kill him then that's perfectly okay, as long as hes not abusing any game mechanics. Because what the "leet PvPers" do isn't unfair. What the GMs are no longer doing their jobs to enforce is a clear exploit.
I forgot neuts RR'ing is not an exploit . Seriously, the whole system is ******, and sitting here bitching about JUST carebears abusing mechanics is a load of horse ****. I would much rather people ask CCP to fix it all instead of saying "I WANT EASIER KILLS SEESEEPEE!!!!111" |
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 19:04:00 -
[71] - Quote
There is more than a little wrong with how wars work in highsec currently.
For example people rarely attempt to defend highsec POS towers and instead just evacuate all their assets from the tower using haulers that can just warp straight to station at some point during the multiple hour duration of the siege and then drop the corp from the alliance and by the time you can re-declare war on them either the entire tower or at least everything valuable on/in it is gone.
Not to mention that a defender who actually fights back and wins has no way of keeping the war going on their side, you can make it mutual but the attacker can still retract at any time and in order to counterattack you have to re-declare war against the former attacker which is a huge pain in the ass because you can go from having someone by the balls to them completely turtling up during that 24 hour period in which you can't shoot them or any of their assets
Its much worse for corps than it is for alliances too, every war you declare has to go through that 24 hour vote period even if there's only one person who can vote or if all of the people who can vote have already voted.
And it irritates me to no end to see people constantly respond to peoples complaints about war mechanics with "hurr u shud muv 2 [type of space I live in]" as if that somehow lessens the need for the mechanics to be revamped. |
Keno Skir
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 19:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:ArmyOfMe wrote:Fix Lag wrote:If I had a dollar for every time someone whined that I'm a forum alt I'd have more money than Hilmar Veigar after the latest subscription numbers came in. not whining at all, just pointing out the irony of one risk adverse player complaining about other people being risk adverse I'M NOT A CHARACTER THAT EVER LOGS IN OTHER THAN THE FORUMS BECAUSE I HAVE A CATCHY NAME WHAT ABOUT THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND
I understand that you have presented a loose discussion not involving you as a direct promise to you. Secondly that you did indeed accuse someone of avoiding risk whilst posting on a forum alt to do the very same.
The change character link is up top of these very forums, catchy name or otherwise it'd be nice to know who i'm addressing :) The Apostle-á :-á I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk-á :-á Silly Austrians Sarmatiko-á-á-á-á :-á Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk-á :-á Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Cipher Jones
91
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 19:58:00 -
[73] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:GM Karidor announced here that wardecs can now be avoided in ways previously considered exploits. There was no accompanying devblog or explanation. These exploits were considered as such with good reason, because without rules against them all a corporation has to do is create shell corporations which (to sum things up) all toggle decs with each other between mutual and non mutual and have members move between them as needed, and if POSes are threatened then a corporation just has to drop from an alliance and make sure their tower is stronted. Hoping that players forget to fuel their POSes is a pretty terrible game mechanic. Allowing people damn near impunity to go about in highsec is a pretty terrible game mechanic. Making the entire wardec system require massive amounts of meta-gaming to work is a pretty terrible game mechanic. And promising to boost CONCORD (which Hilmar recently did via Twitter) while simultaneously nerfing the ability to fight people legitimately in highsec is ludicrously stupid and goes against the very ideal that was Eve. Why? Why was it changed? Why was it changed now, and why was it changed without an overhaul of the wardec system's in-game mechanics? This change along with anecdotal evidence of meetings between CCP employees and corporation CEOs earlier this year as well as circumstantial evidence (corporation policy change timing) reeks of favoritism towards certain groups. Remember the Aurora program? You probably don't, because it was shut down years ago after evidence of CCP favoritism when distributing rewards surfaced. Remember the T2 BPO scandal? CCP sure does. You still can't even say the guy's name who broke the story. CCP played favorites and gave certain groups advantages over others. Every time CCP has played favorites and tried to hide it, **** has hit the fan and things have ended badly for everyone. So, give us a good explanation of why the rules were arbitrarily changed for the worse on October 10th. Because your credibility, or at least what little is left, is at stake here.
If you drop from an alliance it only costs 2 mil to dec you. And then said alliance cant defend your ***** ass.
You have to un-anchor and re-anchor a POS if you switch corps, and have to have the standings in the new corp to do so, and the corp has a 7 day delay on standings.
I see a lot of nubs losing POS's over this, which IMHO is excellent. And I'm thinking CCP likes it too.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Khamal Jolstien
THORN Syndicate BricK sQuAD.
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 20:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:Khamal Jolstien wrote:Igualmentedos wrote:Fix Lag wrote:ACE McFACE wrote:Even if everyone in RvB only flew frigates that would mean theres a lot of fair fights as its not Domi v Frigate but rather Frigates v Frigates. when the hell did this thread become a thread about fair fights in EVE because those don't exist, you see, and if you think they do then you are playing the wrong game. So why is it okay for "leet PvPers" to prey on the weak players (UNFAIRLY), but it's not okay for these same "noobs" to fight back any way they can? Why is it okay for you to be unfair, but the second the carebears get smart and realize they can get away from your wardecs you all of sudden scream how unfair it is? Eve is not fair. That's all there is to it. If a carebear makes it really hard for you to kill him then that's perfectly okay, as long as hes not abusing any game mechanics. Because what the "leet PvPers" do isn't unfair. What the GMs are no longer doing their jobs to enforce is a clear exploit. But thats the thing - the GM's and by that extention, the EVE higher ups, have deemed that its NOT an exploit by coming out and saying "we're not changing anything here, you can keep doing what you're doing." Now, that doesnt mean that they cant change it, and who knows, maybe they will change it soon, but in meantime, its not an exploit per GM's. If it was, they would be banning people - doesnt look like thats happening. Looks like the carebears won this round of PvP for now. Just because they're no longer enforcing it, doesn't mean it's not an exploit by definition. It just means the GMs are no longer interested in doing the job they're paid (by us) to do. Customer service has gone by the wayside in this case. I would still highly recommend petitioning, and escalating each and every time someone takes advantage of this, as it is clearly in error. |
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