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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Viqer Fell
Hax. Game Over.
27
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Posted - 2013.04.01 15:56:00 -
[331] - Quote
Ivoto wrote:Insha'Fozzie!!!
Rebalance God and loved by all!
Gives me a reason to check out the Nag, now that it wont be a multiple weapon platform. Oh yeah, and its:
V E R T I C A L
There is nothing wrong with split weapon system ships. What there is a problem with is introducing new ships without thinking about the balancing beforehand. So glad my time invested in training for capital missiles is now wasted just to pander to the people like yourself who don't have the patience to train up for stuff.
Sorry Fozzie but this change reflects the continued insistence on dumbing down the game and pushing it towards being just a generic MMO with generic MMO mechanics and styles. There is a good reason EvE has survived 10 years and not died like most other generic MMO's. Becoming more like the failed opposition is not how you develop the game. |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group Aerodyne Collective
116
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Posted - 2013.04.01 18:31:00 -
[332] - Quote
Viqer Fell wrote:Why are you so obsessed with making all ships across the races generically the same? Agree. If anyone forgot how a balanced versatility should look - let me remind you: Terran, Protoss, Zerg. That was an epic game design. CCP can not create nothing at least remotely matching that design - I'm quite aware - but do they even try? |
Bluedromm
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.04.01 21:25:00 -
[333] - Quote
Rifter: Dmg/rof + range bonus and a 4th turret. Or dmg+rof bonus like Hurricane and Rupture.
Punisher: More speed, more cap, a drone, and maybe a launcher (some bigger amarr t1 ships have launcher hardpoints, but none of the frigates), without a web and with the poor tracking of lasers this ship has problems applying it's full damage. Or give it a 3rd mid and change it's role to that of a tanky drone boat with unbonused turrets and launchers like the Prophecy. Amarr do not have a drone bonused frigate, why?
EW frigs: The Crucifier could have been the Amarr drone frigate, why only 3 drones? I don't like the Vigil. I know it's main role is EW, but it's bigger version, the Bellicose, can be used as a combat ship, so why the Vigil must be so useless? The exploration frigs are more pvp capable. |
Major Killz
163
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Posted - 2013.04.02 00:46:00 -
[334] - Quote
Rifter needs some serious increase in tank. Well before you can look at adding damage. OR! A serious increase in speed and damage projection and 1 more mid slot.
- killz |
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Unclaimed.
210
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Posted - 2013.04.02 14:32:00 -
[335] - Quote
Not sure if you're doing a balance pass on support frigates, but I've noticed that where logistics are called for in a frigate gang, the Scythe is substantially superior to both of the shield support frigates. It can fit a decent tank, is fast enough to keep up with anything except an interceptor, has twice the effective range, better repair output, and better tank. |
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2013.04.03 11:11:00 -
[336] - Quote
Viqer Fell wrote:Why are you so obsessed with making all ships across the races generically the same?
Getting sick of seeing Dev after Dev push us towards jumping into Generic Cruiser or Generic Frigate and now Generic Dreadnought. It's like the art police who demand every ship was symmetrical.
no point in typing out a meaningful cogent argument as to why this is bad as you wont change your mind so I will settle with "you suck"
They are trying to appeal to the general audience now since they got a little more attention with the dust. For me too these balancings or nerfings has been all about making everything much more similar.
Gnosis is the perfect example where we are headed. Let's remove other ships, atleast it's balanced. |
Jureth22
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
1
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Posted - 2013.04.04 20:08:00 -
[337] - Quote
test server : naglfar 3 hs / 2 guns
50% special bonus to projectile damage + 5% rate of fire level + 5% damage bonus level
isnt that a little bit too much? |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
247
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Posted - 2013.04.04 20:28:00 -
[338] - Quote
Jureth22 wrote:test server : naglfar 3 hs / 2 guns
50% special bonus to projectile damage + 5% rate of fire level + 5% damage bonus level
isnt that a little bit too much? nah it is minmatar , has to be the best in its class |
Jureth22
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
1
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Posted - 2013.04.04 20:52:00 -
[339] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Jureth22 wrote:test server : naglfar 3 hs / 2 guns
50% special bonus to projectile damage + 5% rate of fire level + 5% damage bonus level
isnt that a little bit too much? nah it is minmatar , has to be the best in its class
waiting for the day revelations will have 5 bonuses :D |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
706
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Posted - 2013.04.04 20:53:00 -
[340] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Rifter needs some serious increase in tank. Well before you can look at adding damage. OR! A serious increase in speed and damage projection and 1 more mid slot.
- killz
You just retired the breacher and slasher, well done.
The breacher/slasher/rifter are all filling more or less the same niches and that just doesn't work very well.. BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
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Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice R O G U E
45
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Posted - 2013.04.04 22:25:00 -
[341] - Quote
I think I will pitch this "heavy frigate" idea into a separate thread after all, eventually to see if a tankier Rifter (and others of its level) could be a fun implementation.
Indeed, giving Rifter speed is too much. Imo, Vigil and Slasher should be fastest. Breacher (and similar) should be wicked in hurling missiles. Just an opinion.
However, I find it imperative that we have two variants of Rifter (and others of its class) - The one we have at the moment and maybe a heavier one that can take more punishment - now don't say "That's an Assault Frigate", I'd imagine this tankier version being much slower and less agile. AF's still be the better of what Tech2 has to offer.
Regardless of all that is said above, I'm either for a tankier Rifter or a dual-damage bonus Rifter (Small Proj Turrets + Rockets) along with some negative tweaks to overall HP. It's stings should really hurt.
Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all. |
Vincent Gaines
Double-Down Transmission Lost
319
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Posted - 2013.04.05 14:43:00 -
[342] - Quote
Viqer Fell wrote:
There is nothing wrong with split weapon system ships. What there is a problem with is introducing new ships without thinking about the balancing beforehand. So glad my time invested in training for capital missiles is now wasted just to pander to the people like yourself who don't have the patience to train up for stuff.
Oh my god, stop crying.
Really.
Hell back in 2008 I trained large hybrids even though they were worthless, because I liked them and figured they'd get a buff. Guess what, they did. All that wasted training time is no longer wasted.
I trained up capital missiles and fly a moros, I haven't touched a phoenix in years. You don't see me whining.
Your training time was your decision, knowing full well that you were training for a weapons system that was complete crap. If you were using a Nag over a moros these days you were either stupidly lucky to survive, or never even used it.
These "wasted SP time" arguments are terrible. To train citadels you skilled up Torps to V and Missile launcher operation to V. Both skills are very useful in countless other ship classes and races.
Your only "wasted" time is from the Citadel missile skill itself. considering CCP in the meantime has offered free SP for removing learning skills and several remaps, you are fine.
Now, stop complaining because a projectile Nag is awesome. |
Meduza13
Silver Octopus Infernal Octopus
1
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Posted - 2013.04.05 16:34:00 -
[343] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Jureth22 wrote:test server : naglfar 3 hs / 2 guns
50% special bonus to projectile damage + 5% rate of fire level + 5% damage bonus level
isnt that a little bit too much? nah it is minmatar , has to be the best in its class hmm more dmg,same or better range than than rev , no cap need , choosable dmg type , oh yeah balanced
To make it fully "balanced" i suggest reduction in jump drive capacitor usage around 50% too, on top of 3 damage bonuses, oh and maybe some extra shield boost as well. Cheers. |
Vincent Gaines
Double-Down Transmission Lost
319
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Posted - 2013.04.05 17:03:00 -
[344] - Quote
Jureth22 wrote:test server : naglfar 3 hs / 2 guns
50% special bonus to projectile damage + 5% rate of fire level + 5% damage bonus level
isnt that a little bit too much?
Nag has 3 HS, 2 hardpoints. Right. Every other dread has 3 hardpoints. That's 3 guns.
3 > 2. This means, 3 is greater than 2.
So, you have to balance it by adding a virtual gun. So you give the ship a 50% bonus to damage.
1 gun 1 gun ____ 2 guns
1.5 gun (adding .50) 1.5 gun (adding .50) ____ 3 guns
See how that works?
That now leaves you with 2 bonuses. Since the guns don't use cap there are no other modifications to make. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
62
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Posted - 2013.04.05 17:09:00 -
[345] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Jureth22 wrote:test server : naglfar 3 hs / 2 guns
50% special bonus to projectile damage + 5% rate of fire level + 5% damage bonus level
isnt that a little bit too much? nah it is minmatar , has to be the best in its class hmm more dmg,same or better range than than rev , no cap need , choosable dmg type , oh yeah balanced
Did you checked the EHP of the naglfar against the revelation before typing this crap? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
62
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Posted - 2013.04.05 17:12:00 -
[346] - Quote
Viqer Fell wrote:Ivoto wrote:Insha'Fozzie!!!
Rebalance God and loved by all!
Gives me a reason to check out the Nag, now that it wont be a multiple weapon platform. Oh yeah, and its:
V E R T I C A L There is nothing wrong with split weapon system ships. What there is a problem with is introducing new ships without thinking about the balancing beforehand. So glad my time invested in training for capital missiles is now wasted just to pander to the people like yourself who don't have the patience to train up for stuff. Sorry Fozzie but this change reflects the continued insistence on dumbing down the game and pushing it towards being just a generic MMO with generic MMO mechanics and styles. There is a good reason EvE has survived 10 years and not died like most other generic MMO's. Becoming more like the failed opposition is not how you develop the game.
Ther eis a problem. A ship with split weaposn that is competitive without damage mods becomes very weak after yuo add several damage mods comapred to the competition using same 3 damage mods. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
249
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Posted - 2013.04.05 22:56:00 -
[347] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:Jureth22 wrote:test server : naglfar 3 hs / 2 guns
50% special bonus to projectile damage + 5% rate of fire level + 5% damage bonus level
isnt that a little bit too much? nah it is minmatar , has to be the best in its class hmm more dmg,same or better range than than rev , no cap need , choosable dmg type , oh yeah balanced Did you checked the EHP of the naglfar against the revelation before typing this crap?
you mean without implant set? hmm yup naglfar better ehp, better boost , faster ,locks faster, cap recharge more or less same cap recharge even with a cap booster on the rev... , so if you dont count in the broken slave set then the naglfar will be superior to the rev in everything , other than most people prefer armor tank over shield, and imho an average dread pilot doesnt use slave set anyway well insta ammo change is good for the rev or no ammo use, but i dont think that makes up for the other things
or you could compare it to lol phoenix with the useless cap missiles , doing more dmg than the phoenix, oh and actually better at choosing dmg type, for a little less ehp , the phoenix is better at 2 thing : cheaper :D, and maybe primaried last
the best part naglfar will hardly every be able to fit anything that uses up his cpu/pg, yet the phoenix has cpu problems .... balanced
im glad i sold my rev already :P time to buy a naglfar
ohoh i forgot to add that armor tank is better vs neutralizers |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
249
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Posted - 2013.04.05 22:59:00 -
[348] - Quote
Meduza13 wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:Jureth22 wrote:test server : naglfar 3 hs / 2 guns
50% special bonus to projectile damage + 5% rate of fire level + 5% damage bonus level
isnt that a little bit too much? nah it is minmatar , has to be the best in its class hmm more dmg,same or better range than than rev , no cap need , choosable dmg type , oh yeah balanced To make it fully "balanced" i suggest reduction in jump drive capacitor usage around 50% too, on top of 3 damage bonuses, oh and maybe some extra shield boost as well. Cheers. yup it is matar after all , and we all know they use hit and run doctrine , and also support shield boosts on some ships, also it should be able to move when sieged and probably sign tank too ,and be able to kite enemy dreads fighting in falloff is too much hinderance |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
99
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Posted - 2013.04.05 23:28:00 -
[349] - Quote
Meduza13 wrote:Viqer Fell wrote:Why are you so obsessed with making all ships across the races generically the same?
Getting sick of seeing Dev after Dev push us towards jumping into Generic Cruiser or Generic Frigate and now Generic Dreadnought. It's like the art police who demand every ship was symmetrical.
Fully agreed, thats exactly what ive said couple days ago.
I've also said the same many, many times.
+1 bump |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
99
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Posted - 2013.04.05 23:29:00 -
[350] - Quote
Vayn Baxtor wrote:I think I will pitch this "heavy frigate" idea into a separate thread after all, eventually to see if a tankier Rifter (and others of its level) could be a fun implementation.
Indeed, giving Rifter speed is too much. Imo, Vigil and Slasher should be fastest. Breacher (and similar) should be wicked in hurling missiles. Just an opinion.
However, I find it imperative that we have two variants of Rifter (and others of its class) - The one we have at the moment and maybe a heavier one that can take more punishment - now don't say "That's an Assault Frigate", I'd imagine this tankier version being much slower and less agile. AF's still be the better of what Tech2 has to offer.
Regardless of all that is said above, I'm either for a tankier Rifter or a dual-damage bonus Rifter (Small Proj Turrets + Rockets) along with some negative tweaks to overall HP. It's stings should really hurt.
The heavy frigate you are looking for is called the stabber. |
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Major Killz
163
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Posted - 2013.04.06 01:03:00 -
[351] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Major Killz wrote:Rifter needs some serious increase in tank. Well before you can look at adding damage. OR! A serious increase in speed and damage projection and 1 more mid slot.
- killz You just retired the breacher and slasher, well done. The breacher/slasher/rifter are all filling more or less the same niches and that just doesn't work very well..
F*ck the Breacher and Slasher.
I can accept a ship is bad or useless because that is a reality. I DONT NEED A SHIP TO BE GOOD. Unlike so many in this game that espouse concepts like "fair". What a joke. CCP changed things because of that silly notion. Things will always be "broken" because people cannot accept somethings are just inferior. Somethings have to be.
With that said.
I want the Rifter to be GOOD because I like the way it looks v0v
- killz |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
708
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Posted - 2013.04.06 02:25:00 -
[352] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Major Killz wrote:Rifter needs some serious increase in tank. Well before you can look at adding damage. OR! A serious increase in speed and damage projection and 1 more mid slot.
- killz You just retired the breacher and slasher, well done. The breacher/slasher/rifter are all filling more or less the same niches and that just doesn't work very well.. F*ck the Breacher and Slasher. I can accept a ship is bad or useless because that is a reality. I DONT NEED A SHIP TO BE GOOD. Unlike so many in this game that espouse concepts like "fair". What a joke. CCP changed things because of that silly notion. Things will always be "broken" because people cannot accept somethings are just inferior. Somethings have to be. With that said. I want the Rifter to be GOOD because I like the way it looks v0v - killz I want it to be good while not doing the exact same thing as the other two minnie frigs.. Give it fittings for arties and an optimal bonus!
I would love that :P BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
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Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
78
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Posted - 2013.04.06 05:47:00 -
[353] - Quote
I don't see why the nag slip weapon system was anoying. Sure it takes longer to train but it's also something that make the ship unique. Now it's going to be another ships in the blob.
Not supporting this. This game needs it's ocacional odd balls. If everything is the same with just different skins... well it gets realy booring realy fast. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1137
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Posted - 2013.04.06 06:04:00 -
[354] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:I don't see why the nag slip weapon system was anoying. Sure it takes longer to train but it's also something that make the ship unique. Now it's going to be another ships in the blob.
Not supporting this. This game needs it's ocacional odd balls. If everything is the same with just different skins... well it gets realy booring realy fast.
This. Fix Capital Missiles/Torps and the Nag would be fine. |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction Transmission Lost
322
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Posted - 2013.04.07 15:01:00 -
[355] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:I don't see why the nag split weapon system was anoying. Sure it takes longer to train but it's also something that make the ship unique. Now it's going to be another ships in the blob.
Not supporting this. This game needs it's ocacional odd balls. If everything is the same with just different skins... well it gets realy booring realy fast.
why have 2 different weapons that perform sub-par when you can have a single system that performs optimally?
It's tactically sound, and for example why a Paladin doesn't have a version with 75mm... because a single battery of equally effective weaponry is much better to have.
Just like the worthless turret on the Phoenix.
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CaptainFalcon07
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
118
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Posted - 2013.04.07 21:01:00 -
[356] - Quote
Frankly split weapon systems have always been crap.
Because you need to use damage mods to boost the performance of both weapon systems, while on other systems you only have to boost one weapon system.
Meaning you need to use twice as much damage mods to get the same amount of dps increase to the ship using only one weapon system.
Removing capital missile on Nag and making it a pure gun boat is a very welcomed change.
Capital Missiles suck and is the reason why I trained for a Revelation(before Moros got buffed) instead of a Phoenix despite already having Caldari BS V. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
128
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Posted - 2013.04.09 00:09:00 -
[357] - Quote
The change to the rifter seems comparitively small compared to how weak it now is. How about giving it some extra speed and reducing sig slightly so it is just slightly lesser than the slasher. |
Black Garius
Everset Dropbears
0
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Posted - 2013.04.09 14:14:00 -
[358] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:I don't see why the nag split weapon system was anoying. Sure it takes longer to train but it's also something that make the ship unique. Now it's going to be another ships in the blob.
Not supporting this. This game needs it's ocacional odd balls. If everything is the same with just different skins... well it gets realy booring realy fast.
EXACTLY. The Naglfar has a unique selling point with the dual weapons and any changes to it will DESTROY that uniqueness and with it destroys a LARGE portion of EvE as well. I like the way it is now that is why I trained for it and not the other Dreads wich I'll considered main stream in other words BORING AS HELL. Just for example for the dual weapons the Cyclone still have it and that not bothers anyone why this one get scrutinized?
NAGLFAR is a sophisticated ship as EvE itself LETS KEEP IT THAT WAY.
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
133
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Posted - 2013.04.09 14:46:00 -
[359] - Quote
Black Garius wrote:Azrael Dinn wrote:I don't see why the nag split weapon system was anoying. Sure it takes longer to train but it's also something that make the ship unique. Now it's going to be another ships in the blob.
Not supporting this. This game needs it's ocacional odd balls. If everything is the same with just different skins... well it gets realy booring realy fast. EXACTLY. The Naglfar has a unique selling point with the dual weapons and any changes to it will DESTROY that uniqueness and with it destroys a LARGE portion of EvE as well. I like the way it is now that is why I trained for it and not the other Dreads wich I'll considered main stream in other words BORING AS HELL. Just for example for the dual weapons the Cyclone still have it and that not bothers anyone why this one get scrutinized? NAGLFAR is a sophisticated ship as EvE itself LETS KEEP IT THAT WAY.
I have to agree with this but didn't want to say anything as everyone seemed really happy with this change. I was training towards dual weapon systems and really looking forward to reaching the pinnacle of dual weapon systems which is flying the Naglfr. Is there not some way this can be reworked so that dual weapon systems actually work as I think it takes a lot of flavour out the game.
Now I have lost the interesting feeling of training towards the ship as I know I will end up in a cookie cutter projectile Naglfr similar to all the other dreads. Also the pinnacle of missile systems is surely the capital launchers, and I was really looking forward to firing some of these beasts from my Naglfr. Surely they can easily be reworked so they are effective. Perhaps they have a longer flight time and damage projection that other weapon systems, but they could do a degree more damage to make up for the fact. |
Aprudena Gist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.04.09 15:19:00 -
[360] - Quote
Black Garius wrote:Azrael Dinn wrote:I don't see why the nag split weapon system was anoying. Sure it takes longer to train but it's also something that make the ship unique. Now it's going to be another ships in the blob.
Not supporting this. This game needs it's ocacional odd balls. If everything is the same with just different skins... well it gets realy booring realy fast. EXACTLY. The Naglfar has a unique selling point with the dual weapons and any changes to it will DESTROY that uniqueness and with it destroys a LARGE portion of EvE as well. I like the way it is now that is why I trained for it and not the other Dreads wich I'll considered main stream in other words BORING AS HELL. Just for example for the dual weapons the Cyclone still have it and that not bothers anyone why this one get scrutinized? NAGLFAR is a sophisticated ship as EvE itself LETS KEEP IT THAT WAY. No the Nagalfar has a unique broken point. Split weapons systems on any ship is stupid and be thrown away on all ships immediately. |
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