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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Jeremy Tebeau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
I did a search and did not see anyone discussing this idea in the last few months, so I wished to bring it up (or back up if it has been proposed before) and to voice my support for such a system. _________________________________________________________________________________________________
I have been playing Eve for about a week and I am having a load of fun in faction warfare, but I have to always fly with a fleet because I get destroyed by higher skilled players who, because of skills alone, do almost double the damage I do.
I am going to have to wait months to train all the skills I need to be competitive and even the highest level implants only reduce the time by a fraction, but prevent me from being able to PvP because of their cost.
Eve Online is much harder to get into than other MMOs (*cough WoW) because of its complexity, but having to play for 3 or even 6 months to max out a particular field does not help and makes a new player's life much harder. _________________________________________________________________________________________________
However, a conversation I heard on fleetcoms gave me an idea: What if we could buy a PLEX like item from CCP that would give a instant boost to a character's skill points when redeemed. Again, like PLEX, players could trade them on the market, allowing everyone access.
Of course, wealthy players would then buy tons of them to increase their skills, but that could be easily balanced by the item giving a reduced amount of points if the character has a larger pool already. Alternatively, there could simply be a cap on the highest level it could make you, thus making it strictly a way for newer players to catch up to veterans. _________________________________________________________________________________________________
Agree or disagree, I am open to suggestions and counter-proposals. Again, I am speaking from the perspective of a new, but dedicated, Eve player and I simply wish for more able minds to discover this great game. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
673
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 02:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
First wrong forum and second no Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1022
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
'Cause there's no way this would ever be abused. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
bloodknight2
Talledega Knights PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
64
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree...and disagree. Older players have better skilsl, because they play this game for a long time. The newest guy in my corp had less SP than i have in gunnery when he first gets in. He was flying a rifter in our pvp ops and he was quite usefull. DPS isn't everything. Now, he fly T2 ans soon a loki. That's what make eve so special <3 |
Jim Era
6375
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
this idea is bad, and you should feel bad for making me post |
Alternate Poster
Blatant Tax Avoidance Victrix Mortalis
34
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's called the Character Bazaar |
Jeremy Tebeau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Again, I am very new, so if this is the wrong section, please point me to the right one.
It would also be helpful if you gave an example of how you think it could be abused. I will be the first to say that my idea is not perfect, but no system is and the one we have now is deeply flawed in the way I outlined.
Also, I am aware of the Character Bazzarr, but it can be very expensive to buy a character and it is simply not the same as bringing one up yourself. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2660
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 02:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jeremy Tebeau wrote:Again, I am very new, so if this is the wrong section, please point me to the right one.
It would also be helpful if you gave an example of how you think it could be abused. I will be the first to say that my idea is not perfect, but no system is and the one we have now is deeply flawed in the way I outlined.
Also, I am aware of the Character Bazzarr, but it can be very expensive to buy a character and it is simply not the same as bringing one up yourself.
We'd sell the skillpoints of alts that we don't use anymore to our mains. The current system isn't flawed, it's just very misunderstood. You can still be very useful to people on day 1 & anyone that doesn't see that is bad at this game.
Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Jim Era
6376
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
How is it flawed? You should be able to join a game that others have been playing for nearly a decade and be able to be their equal?
deal with it. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1301
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Instead of pointing out the hundreds of reasons why this is a terrible idea, I will simply say ;
"You should be ashamed of yourself".
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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Pantiy
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
26
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Welcome to eve and here is your first lesson. GTFO never ever post again. Second lesson new chars get a bonus to training time. Be glad you weren't around when we had LEARNING skills. |
Jeremy Tebeau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:We'd sell the skillpoints of alts that we don't use anymore to our mains. There are so many ways we'd abuse this. The current system isn't flawed, it's just very misunderstood. You can still be very useful on day 1 & anyone that tells you otherwise is bad at this game (and has probably never left highsec).
You misread me, I am not saying that we should be able to sell our character's skill points, but that we should be able to buy skill point boosters from CCP. Thus your exploit is nonexistant. |
Jim Era
6376
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
boosters are bad mmmkaay? |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
210
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
This thread is a shining example of how terrible the EVE community is. My best suggestion is to stop using the forums entirely as they are utterly useless.
Jita local is more helpful than the answers you will receive here. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Jim Era
6377
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
This thread is a generous example of why young players should not try to bring about change in a game they do not understand. |
Alara IonStorm
4616
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Posted - 2013.03.16 02:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Buying SP... No.
You don't need to catch up with Veterans in EVE because when you pick a class or progression of ships you can hit the ceiling quicker giving the Vet more options but you a specialized career where you match them. What is more you after a time match them in entire subsets like combat or a type of Industry.
One of the things that makes EVE great is that with the open field strategy you can insert may low SP roles into a Battlefleet adding to the whole. While 5% here and 10% there are nice a proper ECM Ship or Tackler or Logi or Dmg Dealer can mean a hell of a lot.
---
On that I am in favor of lowering the newbie general grind in certain area's. For instance Drones.
Drones (Launch 1 Drone per Lvl) Drone Interfacing (+20% Dmg) Trainable at Drone V
A more newbie friendly system for instance.
Drones (20% Dmg Per Lvl) Drone Interfacing (+10% Dmg) Trainable at Drone IV
Adjusting the base stats of the Drones so they equal the same amount of Damage as now this grind is less harsh allowing more Drone Damage but requiring the same time to max out.
Another thing is Ammo, Guns are often balanced around T2 Ammo like Scorch. There should be better T1 opportunities to use the same tactics to a slightly lesser effectiveness, they should look into an Ammo overhaul for guns so T1 Ammo can use said tactics instead of a ship being useless until a T2 gun can be attained.
Certain skills can do with a shortening and others can be combined as well to shorten the base train. ____ \___/ .\__/ ..\_/ ...\/
Basically an upside down Pyramid of specialization that shortens the time fore core skills while keeping the time for specialization long. I think it could stand to be a bit thinner at the bottom. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
6510
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 03:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
First up, this should really be in features and ideas.
Welcome to Eve OP, it's been discussed many times before and the general consensus of opinion is nope.
While an older player may well have exponentially more skill points, they only give him choice, and expensive clones. A newbie in a frigate, can be extremely effective in FW from day one, if you can pack tackle you'll always be welcome in fleets, hero tacklers are much appreciated, sometimes with cash or ships, sometimes with an older player sharing their knowledge and advice.
All of the major alliances got to where they are now, 2 in particular are infamous for it, on the backs of newbies in frigates.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. |
Jeremy Tebeau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 03:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:This thread is a shining example of how terrible the EVE community is. My best suggestion is to stop using the forums entirely as they are utterly useless.
Jita local is more helpful than the answers you will receive here.
I agree completely, this is a hornets nest.
And Jim Era, you are clearly a veteran who likes the current system. But, if you are capable, try to see this from the perspective of the tens of thousands who are in my shoes. _________________________________________________________________________________________________
Alara, I agree with you for the most part, and although, from what I have read, it takes in the order of 6 months to max out a specialty, that is a long time for a game and computers in general.
The time investment encourages veterans to keep playing, but it also drives away innumerable able players. I hope that by having another form of investment, whether real money or gametime will have the same effect with less drawbacks. _________________________________________________________________________________________________
BTW, for those who missed this:
To make myself clear, I like that the system allows you to advance without having to put large amounts of time into the game, but I simply wish to alleviate the problem of not being able to advance significantly faster and thus having to wait to play well.
If you think my idea is bad, then propose a better one. If you like the system as it is, then say so. The floor is yours. |
Jim Era
6377
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 03:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
I am not a vet. I started last year. But you don't see me bitching about not making as much isk, or getting blown up due to inferior skills. I just work and slowly gain better ability to undergo the task at hand.
I've spent most of my current time training to make isk in the ways of industry, now I am slowly (but surely) gaining more combat skills. Currently stuck on multiple sets of 20+ day skills in order to fly the ship I plan to. It is a pain in the ass, but it will be rewarding when the time comes. |
Jeremy Tebeau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 03:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:First up, this should really be in features and ideas.
Welcome to Eve OP, it's been discussed many times before and the general consensus of opinion is nope.
While an older player may well have exponentially more skill points, they only give him choice, and expensive clones. A newbie in a frigate, can be extremely effective in FW from day one, if you can pack tackle you'll always be welcome in fleets, hero tacklers are much appreciated, sometimes with cash or ships, sometimes with an older player sharing their knowledge and advice. Specialise in only a couple of types of ship, by knowing the capabilities of both yourself and your ships, you will soon be the equal or better than a player in a similar vessel, who has 100 million SP more than you do, but isn't as specialised.
All of the major alliances got to where they are now, 2 in particular are infamous for it, on the backs of newbies in frigates.
Thank you for making a CONSTRUCTIVE comment. I actually agree with you, although I still wish there was a way to speed training that wasn't lost if you get podded. |
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Din Chao
185
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Posted - 2013.03.16 03:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jeremy Tebeau wrote:To make myself clear, I like that the system allows you to advance without having to put large amounts of time into the game, but I simply wish to alleviate the problem of not being able to advance significantly faster and thus having to wait to play well.
If you think my idea is bad, then propose a better one. If you like the system as it is, then say so. The floor is yours. The problem is you think having more skill points faster is helpful. Having 40 mil skill points does not mean you can "play well." The system we have now has already been tweaked over the last ten years.
Train Cybernetics to 5 and get some +5 implants. Best we can do for you right now... |
Jeremy Tebeau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 03:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Implants are not the solution because, although I could get a set if I really wanted, I am a PvP player and I die too often to be able to hope to be able to replace them every time. I would have to stop playing for the next few months and that is not an option.
I also realize that player skill is more significant that skills. But when the disparity is this great and my opponent at least halfway decent, it makes it nearly impossible to beat him in 1v1. Fleets help, but the problem still exists. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
6512
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 03:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jeremy Tebeau wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:First up, this should really be in features and ideas.
Welcome to Eve OP, it's been discussed many times before and the general consensus of opinion is nope.
While an older player may well have exponentially more skill points, they only give him choice, and expensive clones. A newbie in a frigate, can be extremely effective in FW from day one, if you can pack tackle you'll always be welcome in fleets, hero tacklers are much appreciated, sometimes with cash or ships, sometimes with an older player sharing their knowledge and advice. Specialise in only a couple of types of ship, by knowing the capabilities of both yourself and your ships, you will soon be the equal or better than a player in a similar vessel, who has 100 million SP more than you do, but isn't as specialised.
All of the major alliances got to where they are now, 2 in particular are infamous for it, on the backs of newbies in frigates. Thank you for making a CONSTRUCTIVE comment. I actually agree with you, although I still wish there was a way to speed training that wasn't lost if you get podded.
You can somewhat mitigate the podding loss with jump clones, you can jump once every 24 hours. Have one in highsec, with attribute implants that you can jump into for a few days if you're doing something other than PvP, just jump back into a lowsec zero implant or cheap combat implant clone for FW.
If you don't know about jumpclones, look into it, you can get them with no standings grind via Estel Arador Corp Services
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. |
Jim Era
6377
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 03:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
I say we all try to kill OP as much as possible for not getting it. |
Jeremy Tebeau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 03:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:You can somewhat mitigate the podding loss with jump clones, you can jump once every 24 hours. Have one in highsec, with attribute implants that you can jump into for a few days if you're doing something other than PvP, just jump back into a lowsec zero implant or cheap combat implant clone for FW. If you don't know about jumpclones, look into it, you can get them with no standings grind via Estel Arador Corp Services
Thanks you again for being constructive, that is actually helpful to me and to others in my place. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
402
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 03:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
...to ease new player experiance or ease rich players ability to win?
no thanks, -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
T'Laar Bok
73
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 05:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
NO! Amphetimines are your friend.
http://eveboard.com/pilot/T'Laar_Bok |
DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
81
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Posted - 2013.03.16 05:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Regardless of whether the OP idea is good or bad, you can't drop such a feature into the current system.
I would welcome mechanics that make the "shallow end of the pool" gameplay more accessible to new players - and CCP has actually made it easier to get into a lot of hulls quite recently - but the high end stuff is fairly well time balanced.
Put it this way: In a normal MMO you would have to grind for months and months in repetitive missions in order to unlock a bunch of stuff. In EVE, yes, maybe you will take longer to Tech 2 into Carriers and Black-ops and what not, but you can click a few buttons to do it, and you can do things totally unrelated to the skills you are training, and/or just take a nap.
I think I know what I prefer. I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Silent Requiem
59
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Posted - 2013.03.16 05:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jeremy Tebeau wrote:A To make myself clear, I like that the system allows you to advance without having to put large amounts of time into the game, but I simply wish to alleviate the problem of not being able to advance significantly faster and thus having to wait to play well.
If you think my idea is bad, then propose a better one. If you like the system as it is, then say so. The floor is yours.
This is where I think you don't allow for what Eve is. Eve has always been a game about the future. When you start you need to realise that you are playing for the long term, not immediately. I have been playing since 2009 and by some players still considered a newbie, however it took me all of 10 minutes to realise that I couldn't just come in here and expect to be equal to everyone immediately.
Eve is about time. Everything in this game takes time. It takes time to train skills. It takes time to produce ships and modules. It takes time to research that blueprint. It takes time to set up structures.
However your argument that skills = playing well is so flawed. I've seen 2 day old players killing players who have been around for years. Skills are how you fit better items, not how you fit ships. A player with 2 months training can fly frigates as good as someone who has been playing since 2003.
This thread keeps re-appearing every so often, and it's always responded to in the same way. Essentially what you are asking for is to buy power (something all players should not want, and CCP have said they don't want to ever do), to get into ships that you shouldn't be flying. Just in case you are new and not an alt, the last time players found out that CCP had lost their way and were going to try and sell power (by selling better guns and ammo for real money), there were riots in Jita.
There is nothing wrong with the skill training system as it is, but people need to learn to patient with Eve, as instant gratification rarely happens and when it does, it's so few and far between that your chances of it happening to you are basically zero.
If you are dying a lot in PVP, then you need to look at the way your ship is fitted, and how you fight. If you are worried about making money via industry then start small and work up to the big stuff. Again its about being patient. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1062
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 05:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Paging Malcanis - your law is required in this thread. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
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