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Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
23
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Posted - 2013.03.16 19:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Because my skiff fleet isn't color coordinated with my tech 1 orca. This is an obvious oversight and needs to get addressed.
Additionally, rigs that boost structure hp's would be welcome for orca pilots who want to tank their ship. |
DataRunner Attor
Independent Confederacy of Worlds
29
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
captial class ships don't exactly follow the same rules as sub-caps, in your case the tech two version would be the rorqual. |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
23
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
That's fair, but it's inconsistent. Orca's really aren't capital ships though, they don't even require Advanced Spaceship Command, let alone the Capital Ships skill. They're actually sub freighter/jump freighter which follows the tech 1 -> tech 2 progression. But really I want a maroon orca, because my fleet would be 2.3 times sexier.
And structure rigs so I can buffer my orca better. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
691
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
But what would it do as a T2, that the T1 can not do? Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
59
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
To be fair, I would compare the Orca to an Industrial Carrier and the Rorqual to an Industrial Supercarrier. The only thing ORE hasn't developed yet is a jump-drive-equipped Industrial Dreadnought (think "Mega-Exhumer") or an Industrial Titan. ...I have no idea what an Industrial Titan would do. Perhaps it could function as a mobile factory. You know, with factory slots and all of that.
Anyway, since the T2 platforms are all about specialization, if we really were to seriously discuss the concept of a T2 Orca, I would say perhaps something like "Increase the tank, decrease the mobility, increase the power of drones, increase the power of gang links, decrease the size of the hangar and remove the ore bay."
Call it the Narwhal. |
Dave Stark
2007
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
the rorqual says hi.
there's nothing the orca doesn't do, that a tech 2 version could do. in short; we don't need a t2 orca. Want miners to move from high sec to null sec? Then give them a reason to join player corps, and stop null sec grav sites being worth less isk/hour than high sec asteroid belts. Really isn't difficult. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
859
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
T2 Orca should be covops and have interdiction nullifier. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
23
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:the rorqual says hi.
there's nothing the orca doesn't do, that a tech 2 version could do. in short; we don't need a t2 orca.
I disagree. There's plenty of things that a Tech 2 could do.
Random things: More defense Additional Bonus to shield harmonizing gang link (only that one) More cargo Compression abilities
I'm not saying that these would have to be the bonuses, but they would be nice to haves.
But if I was really going to put some thought into it I think that a tech 2 orca could dovetail into the off-grid boosting change. If the orca has to be exposed in belt maybe it could get a solid defense boost and a bonus to remote shield repping or some additional drone damage. Maybe they give a bonus to shield transfer amount if the target is a barge or industrial.
This is just throwing ideas out there, not any clearly laid out ideas.
And this is also about structure rigs. Any problems with structure rigs?
edit: I'm a moron, I listed half the things the roq does anyway. I'm a moron. |
DataRunner Attor
Independent Confederacy of Worlds
29
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Most time a tech two version gives up something to further specialize in something, so tell me, what is the orca giving up to become a tech two version, and what does it specialize in?
Demanding you want something, and not give a inkling of what should it be is bad, and against the F&I Discussion rules. |
Sentamon
759
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Posted - 2013.03.16 21:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
+ Warp Core strength Orca might lead to some lowsec mining.
.... oh and make it yellow to match the taxi mining frigates
DataRunner Attor wrote:Most time a tech two version gives up something to further specialize in something, so tell me, what is the orca giving up to become a tech two version, and what does it specialize in?
Demanding you want something, and not give a inkling of what should it be is bad, and against the F&I Discussion rules.
pretty easy, give up some cargo space .. maybe tractor beam bonus ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
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Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
692
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Posted - 2013.03.16 21:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
The biggest things people will want are siege warfare boost and more ore hold. During the command ship rebalance they will be doing the orca also, and all commas ships will be getting a second link bonus. During that time they might redo the cargo capacities reducing the cargo hold an increasing the ore hold maybe. In short wait till after the rebalancing before asking for new ships. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Red Teufel
Take it Deep
213
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Posted - 2013.03.16 21:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
if you get a t2 orca i want a t2 bump capital. it's purpose is to launch miners out of range of the roids. |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
23
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Posted - 2013.03.16 21:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
DataRunner Attor wrote: Most time a tech two version gives up something to further specialize in something, so tell me, what is the orca giving up to become a tech two version, and what does it specialize in? .
Bad generalization.
Assault frigates, EWAR frigates, covert ops scanners, intercepters, logistics, heavy assault ships, combat recon ships, command ships, and exhumers don't give something up at all, they are straight improvements on the Tech 1 version.
The only ship types that have significant sacrifice for their specialization are jump freighters, black ops, stealth bombers, with an outside nod to interdictors and heavy interdictors. Notice that all of these are either jump capable, cloak, or do unique gate interdiction.
But you want a more specific requests?
1. Structure rigs, the thing everyone seems to be ignoring. Ships such as the orca are structure tanks and it would be nice to be able to add significant buffer tank to ships that can't significantly improve their tank using their current slot layout. Currently you get more out of using the 2 low power slots to tank than using the 4 mids and 3 rigs together.
2. Tech 2 orca could improve on it's presence as a mining ops support many ways, but being able to help fleet members in emergencies seems like a good route to take given the current state of the game. Currently the orca has bonuses that are discordant with each other because an orca cannot be a fleet booster and a hauler at the same time, but that's what it is bonused to do. Retaining a decent sized fleet hanger is optimal so that you can centralize the collection of ore to one ship even if that ship is not the one actively hauling the ore back to a station. With the upcoming changes to off grid boosters the ability to be more active in mining op defense seems like a natural progression for a industrial command ship. |
Dave Stark
2009
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Posted - 2013.03.16 21:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:Dave Stark wrote:the rorqual says hi.
there's nothing the orca doesn't do, that a tech 2 version could do. in short; we don't need a t2 orca. I disagree. There's plenty of things that a Tech 2 could do. Random things: More defense Additional Bonus to shield harmonizing gang link (only that one) More cargo Compression abilities I'm not saying that these would have to be the bonuses, but they would be nice to haves. But if I was really going to put some thought into it I think that a tech 2 orca could dovetail into the off-grid boosting change. If the orca has to be exposed in belt maybe it could get a solid defense boost and a bonus to remote shield repping or some additional drone damage. Maybe they give a bonus to shield transfer amount if the target is a barge or industrial. This is just throwing ideas out there, not any clearly laid out ideas. And this is also about structure rigs. Any problems with structure rigs? edit: I'm a moron, I listed half the things the roq does anyway. I'm a moron.
more defense? the orca already has over 200k ehp for christ sake. i don't think it needs a bonus to that particular link, the fact that you're not restricted to mining gang links is already a huge plus in the orca's favour. more cargo i'll agree with, mainly because i disagree with the compression. the ore bay itself needs to be bigger, not the fleet hangar, not the regular cargo, the damn ore bay. should be at least double what it is now, if not triple. 50k is a joke, especially when the mack is pushing almost 40. Want miners to move from high sec to null sec? Then give them a reason to join player corps, and stop null sec grav sites being worth less isk/hour than high sec asteroid belts. Really isn't difficult. |
DataRunner Attor
Independent Confederacy of Worlds
29
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Posted - 2013.03.16 22:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:DataRunner Attor wrote: Most time a tech two version gives up something to further specialize in something, so tell me, what is the orca giving up to become a tech two version, and what does it specialize in? . Bad generalization. Assault frigates, EWAR frigates, covert ops scanners, intercepters, logistics, heavy assault ships, combat recon ships, command ships, and exhumers don't give something up at all, they are straight improvements on the Tech 1 version. The only ship types that have significant sacrifice for their specialization are jump freighters, black ops, stealth bombers, with an outside nod to interdictors and heavy interdictors. Notice that all of these are either jump capable, cloak, or do unique gate interdiction. But you want a more specific requests? 1. Structure rigs, the thing everyone seems to be ignoring. Ships such as the orca are structure tanks and it would be nice to be able to add significant buffer tank to ships that can't significantly improve their tank using their current slot layout. Currently you get more out of using the 2 low power slots to tank than using the 4 mids and 3 rigs together. 2. Tech 2 orca could improve on it's presence as a mining ops support many ways, but being able to help fleet members in emergencies seems like a good route to take given the current state of the game. Currently the orca has bonuses that are discordant with each other because an orca cannot be a fleet booster and a hauler at the same time, but that's what it is bonused to do. Retaining a decent sized fleet hanger is optimal so that you can centralize the collection of ore to one ship even if that ship is not the one actively hauling the ore back to a station. With the upcoming changes to off grid boosters the ability to be more active in mining op defense seems like a natural progression for a industrial command ship.
not quite correct.
Currently tech one variants are general little weaker, however that's a cost of being cheaper to manufacture(not really a debuff or a buff) AND the fact they are not truly specialized in a certain role. Which can allow it to specialized to a role you want it to be through not only equipment change, but also rig controls.
However a Tech two version is focused on a certain role. For example, equipping an assualt ship for E-war is rather...Daft and not exactly recommended. If you wish to try it, be my guest. I guess I didn't explain it well enough.
So the question is, what role will this tech two version play, and what would be the cost of it playing this role? Like do you want it to be a big cargo command ship so that it gives massive role bonuses and a large cargo hold, of course lets say at the cost of it losing it ability to divide up the ship into corp hangers?
However having it a direct upgrade from it old version would be pointless because then it will cause the orca itself to not be used very much anymore. It all about keeping a balance. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
410
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Posted - 2013.03.17 08:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:But what would it do as a T2, that the T1 can not do? I personally like the 'Fleet Support' role thats been suggested:
Bigger Maintainance bay (expaned refiting to allow T3 sub swaps) No ore bay Smaller cargo Similar corp bay No link bonuses Keep its drone bay Abiity to cyno like a JF.
A solid mobile base for roams, allowing repairs and refits.
Some have even suggested a clone bay on it, but I am not fully convinced of that as I think it would mess with WH combat too much. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
692
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 08:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:But what would it do as a T2, that the T1 can not do? I personally like the 'Fleet Support' role thats been suggested: Bigger Maintainance bay (expaned refiting to allow T3 sub swaps) No ore bay Smaller cargo Similar corp bay No link bonuses Keep its drone bay Abiity to cyno like a JF. A solid mobile base for roams, allowing repairs and refits. Some have even suggested a clone bay on it, but I am not fully convinced of that as I think it would mess with WH combat too much. But such a ship has nothing to do with Mining or ORE ship styles, and would be extremely off track from the industrial command line. Not saying such a ship would not be desirable, just not as a t2 orca. Maybe a new t2 battleship, or a retro-fitted freighter. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
410
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 08:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:But what would it do as a T2, that the T1 can not do? I personally like the 'Fleet Support' role thats been suggested: Bigger Maintainance bay (expaned refiting to allow T3 sub swaps) No ore bay Smaller cargo Similar corp bay No link bonuses Keep its drone bay Abiity to cyno like a JF. A solid mobile base for roams, allowing repairs and refits. Some have even suggested a clone bay on it, but I am not fully convinced of that as I think it would mess with WH combat too much. But such a ship has nothing to do with Mining or ORE ship styles, and would be extremely off track from the industrial command line. Not saying such a ship would not be desirable, just not as a t2 orca. Maybe a new t2 battleship, or a retro-fitted freighter. Your probably right about the freighter. But as a succesful corporation, I think Ore would see how their ships are being used and focus development around those uses. A lot of people use Orcas as mobile platforms and I think ORE would consider making one suited to that role. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
692
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 08:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:But what would it do as a T2, that the T1 can not do? I personally like the 'Fleet Support' role thats been suggested: Bigger Maintainance bay (expaned refiting to allow T3 sub swaps) No ore bay Smaller cargo Similar corp bay No link bonuses Keep its drone bay Abiity to cyno like a JF. A solid mobile base for roams, allowing repairs and refits. Some have even suggested a clone bay on it, but I am not fully convinced of that as I think it would mess with WH combat too much. But such a ship has nothing to do with Mining or ORE ship styles, and would be extremely off track from the industrial command line. Not saying such a ship would not be desirable, just not as a t2 orca. Maybe a new t2 battleship, or a retro-fitted freighter. Your probably right about the freighter. But as a succesful corporation, I think Ore would see how their ships are being used and focus development around those uses. A lot of people use Orcas as mobile platforms and I think ORE would consider making one suited to that role. It is hard to say who would design such a ship, as ORE command ships have fitting services on both and the Rorqual has a jump drive, and the faction navys have capital ships that fit the role also. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
410
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 11:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:It is hard to say who would design such a ship, as ORE command ships have fitting services on both and the Rorqual has a jump drive, and the faction navys have capital ships that fit the role also. True. There are multiple options in that respect. Maybe one of the minor corps could get togther with ORE to develop the Orca hull further? MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
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Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
26
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Posted - 2013.03.17 17:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:The only thing ORE hasn't developed yet is a jump-drive-equipped Industrial Dreadnought (think "Mega-Exhumer") or an Industrial Titan. ...I have no idea what an Industrial Titan would do.
I do. 'Doomsday'-scale mining laser. When you absolutely positively have to mine that asteroid in one fell swoop.
You pick a target, fire up the laser, big flash of light... asteroid is gone, all the ore from it is in your hold, you can't jump for 10 minutes and can't mine another asteroid for 60 minutes.
At least it would be a way to get rid of those gigantic Spodumain asteroids...
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Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
520
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Posted - 2013.03.17 18:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:But what would it do as a T2, that the T1 can not do? Have an awesome paint job. Isn't that enough? http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
555
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Posted - 2013.03.17 19:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
YEA WE NEED THE EXACT SAME THING!
BUT BETTER https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Dave Stark
2030
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 19:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:YEA WE NEED THE EXACT SAME THING!
BUT BETTER
so, the rorqual? Want miners to move from high sec to null sec? Then give them a reason to join player corps, and stop null sec grav sites being worth less isk/hour than high sec asteroid belts. Really isn't difficult. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
694
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Posted - 2013.03.17 19:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:But what would it do as a T2, that the T1 can not do? Have an awesome paint job. Isn't that enough? That paint job better be made with pure platinum, as the projected cost for a T2 orca would be around 3.7bill with current prices. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
26
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Posted - 2013.03.17 23:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:But what would it do as a T2, that the T1 can not do? Have an awesome paint job. Isn't that enough? That paint job better be made with pure platinum, as the projected cost for a T2 orca would be around 3.7bill with current prices.
I was going to say you can't put a price on style, but you just did.
/worth every isk. |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
170
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:But what would it do as a T2, that the T1 can not do? I personally like the 'Fleet Support' role thats been suggested: Bigger Maintainance bay (expaned refiting to allow T3 sub swaps) No ore bay Smaller cargo Similar corp bay No link bonuses Keep its drone bay Abiity to cyno like a JF. A solid mobile base for roams, allowing repairs and refits. Some have even suggested a clone bay on it, but I am not fully convinced of that as I think it would mess with WH combat too much.
We can't even use the clone bay on a Rorqual, so adding one to a T2 Orca wouldn't change anything.
Honestly, I'd prefer that the Rorqual gets an overhaul before they make a T2 Orca, especially if force fields are going the way of the dodo. |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1249
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 13:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
DJ P0N-3 wrote: We can't even use the clone bay on a Rorqual, so adding one to a T2 Orca wouldn't change anything.
Honestly, I'd prefer that the Rorqual gets an overhaul before they make a T2 Orca, especially if force fields are going the way of the dodo.
eh, when'd they break clonebays on the rorq? One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Mikhael Taron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2013.03.20 22:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Industrial command ship. Sounds like it oversees something to do with industry, so the head of a mining fleet makes sense. That being the case I fail to see why it needs a large cargohold; it isn't a hauler. Reduce that - or remove it.
Keep the corporate hangars. As a support vessel it ought to have modules and charges for the fleet, and separate compartments allows proper management of fleet resources.
If the hulk is now a pure fleet ship - which I think it is - then four of those will overwhelm the orca's current ore hold in next to no time. I say 4 as I can't see the point of an orca for anything less. Increase the size of the ore hold so it can handle 4 x hulks output from 1/2 hour's mining. What's that? 200k? 300k? Someone do the maths.
Fleet defence. The maintenance bay is a bit dismal. Increase its size to allow the four hulk pilots to switch into their combat vessels, should they come under attack. While I'm not sure about BS-size craft, certainly I think the bay ought to take BC-size craft. Limiting the hangar to industrials is wrong for this, as the combat ships would have nowhere to go when the mining ships are boarded.
Drones? Remove them. An orca is not designed to be alone, without cover of any type. The barges provide the defence from rats, and the combat ships in the maintenance hangar from more interesting threats. Also, a command ship doesn't sound like a vessel that gets dirty its hands from mining.
Tank. Structure is the orca's tank, so the 2 low-slots ought to suffice. DCU 2 will give it an effective HP of over 125k, increasing to over 160k with a T2 bulkhead. That ought to last while the miners are jumping into their Tengus. With that in mind, the mid-slots seem a bit redundant. Unless it fits struct repairers for afterwards? Hmmm...
Just my tuppence-worth.
You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
33
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Posted - 2013.03.20 22:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
DataRunner Attor wrote:captial class ships don't exactly follow the same rules as sub-caps, in your case the tech two version would be the rorqual. Orca is a command ship. It's no more "capital", than your average freighter. It's just a conincidence, that it is big and have a maintenance bay. Though, I fail to see, what bonuses would be appropriate for a T2 ORE command ship. But I do appreciate the humor of the OP's request, thus my +1. |
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