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Smeagol Muffdiver
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.03.17 01:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi, I need to make a few runs soon out and in of Jita with with 4000m3 goods worth around 200mil. Since I don't need to go far I can split it into smaller pieces.
Now what kind of ship would I go for? is there some kind of risk/reward ratio gankers use? I mean to gank a very sturdy ship the ganker also needs a more expensive throw away ship to blow up the vicim before the CONCORD kills him.
Option A) use the strongest possible ship I can fly and take everything in one go. This probably makes me a target for a ganking group.
Option B) I take a smaller ship but still somewhat sturdy ship (so that the solo cheap ganker can't kill me) and take lets say 50mil per run so that the gank-group in more powerful ships don't see me as a viable target.
What would be good ship for this in the T1 (max cruiser) range? I can fly a Badger II. Should I make a tank version of it? At what cargo value do gankers start licking their lips?
I plan using a safespot warp out bookmark and then continue from there. What about when I approach the station with warp to 0 and spam dock.. is that somewhat safe?
Thanks for any advice. Using a contracting corp for the transport is not an option.
kind regards Muff |
Haulie Berry
283
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Posted - 2013.03.17 01:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Smeagol Muffdiver wrote:
Thanks for any advice. Using a contracting corp for the transport is not an option.
kind regards Muff
Are you sure? Hauling, like mining, is peasant work. I try to have someone else do it whenever possible.
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Smeagol Muffdiver
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.03.17 01:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
true. but in this case drop off/pickup is at a customs office. thats why I need to do it in person. anyway appreciate some good advice on a suitable ship. |
Thur Barbek
Republic University Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 02:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just get a t2 transport ship like the crane. Its unscannable, you can tank it decently and still have a MWD on it. Its cloak means you only have a chance to die undocking (fit inertia stabs in low slots to align in 2 seconds.) or if you mess up and sit uncloaked on a gate or something.
Or, just use a big old freighter... anything under 1b cargo is generally safe. I realize that this is overkill for your 4k m/3 cargo but it would be very rare to get ganked for 200m in a freighter.
Or, courier it (collateral = 100% security) to w/e system. Outside of tradehubs and shipping lanes, suicide ganks are pretty rare. |
Smeagol Muffdiver
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.03.17 02:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thur Barbek wrote:Just get a t2 transport ship like the crane. Its unscannable, you can tank it decently and still have a MWD on it. Its cloak means you only have a chance to die undocking (fit inertia stabs in low slots to align in 2 seconds.) or if you mess up and sit uncloaked on a gate or something.
Or, just use a big old freighter... anything under 1b cargo is generally safe. I realize that this is overkill for your 4k m/3 cargo but it would be very rare to get ganked for 200m in a freighter.
Or, courier it (collateral = 100% security) to w/e system. Outside of tradehubs and shipping lanes, suicide ganks are pretty rare.
it should be T1, a freighter is out of reach too and I also mentioned contracting is no option.
I found this in a forum: "This ships tank is over 10k which staves Single Tornado's and Small Destroyers which make up most Gank Groups. Heavier Coordinated Ganks will break it no problem.
[Badger Mark II, More Tank] Damage Control II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II
Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Amplifier II
[empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I"
Guess I will try this. |
Termy Rockling
EVE University Ivy League
26
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Posted - 2013.03.17 02:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Upper level T1 Industrial filled with shields and reinforced bulkheads and damagecontrol. Also 200M is pennies, most wont bother such with tornados.
The Badger2 looks ok |
Smeagol Muffdiver
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.03.17 02:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Termy Rockling wrote:Upper level T1 Industrial filled with shields and reinforced bulkheads and damagecontrol. Also 200M is pennies, most wont bother such with tornados.
The Badger2 looks ok
thanks. |
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
4
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 11:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
1) I think it's fairly rare if not very rare for T3 Battlecruisers to be used to suicide gank T1 industrials, blockade runners, & mining vessels UNLESS there is a severe grudge involved. 2) You don't really want to be transporting more than 30 million ISK worth of goods in a T1 industrial. It attracts too much attention. 3) To my view the only real use for T1 industrials is to empty PI from customs offices and to do level four Distribution missions. I generally won't use T1 industrial outside of those activities. 4) As another reply said your best option is to use a Prowler/blockade runner with cloak & inertia stabilizers. 5) The primary and usual vessel to gank is the catalyst. In most cases only one will be used. 6) Your suggestion that a 10,000 EHP tank will be enough to survive a gank from a Catalyst is incorrect. Your ship will be turned into scrap at that level. I don't know the exact figure to survive a gank but it is about 18,000 EHP.
Hope that is of use to you. |
shar'ra matcevsovski
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
362
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 14:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
iirc blockade-runners are immune to cargo scanners so that-¦would be prolly the easiest and fastest way. You can also double (courier)contract your goods, wich will hide your cargo aswell. cargo scanners will only show a plastic wrap, but whats in it. shar'ra phone home |
Termy Rockling
EVE University Ivy League
27
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Posted - 2013.03.17 18:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:iirc blockade-runners are immune to cargo scanners so that-¦would be prolly the easiest and fastest way. You can also double (courier)contract your goods, wich will hide your cargo aswell. cargo scanners will only show a plastic wrap, but whats in it.
Problem with BRunners and PWraps is that ppl tend to assume you have expensive cargo when its hidden :) |
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shar'ra matcevsovski
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
363
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Posted - 2013.03.18 14:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Termy Rockling wrote: Problem with BRunners and PWraps is that ppl tend to assume you have expensive cargo when its hidden :)
you might be right with the wraps, I give you that, but not with the B-runners because in this case hidden means that it shows it as empty, so no differenr result as a actuall empty Brunner would show.
shar'ra phone home |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
510
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 15:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:Termy Rockling wrote: Problem with BRunners and PWraps is that ppl tend to assume you have expensive cargo when its hidden :)
you might be right with the wraps, I give you that, but not with the B-runners because in this case hidden means that it shows it as empty, so no differenr result as a actuall empty Brunner would show. Issue with that is blockade runners are generally easy to kill, and being unscanable makes them a lottery target, never know what it will drop. Many gankers enjoy this risk. The big difference here between the unscanable blockade runner and the previous unscanable ORCA corp hanger is the ORCA's corp hanger did not drop loot, so the was no chance of an unknown high value loot drop. The blockadee runner while unscanable does drop loot from that unscanable cargo space.
To the OP, if you are stuck on t1 ships you basically have two options. A small fast ship not normally used for cargo, some cruisers can have a pretty decent cargo hold if fit with cargo rigs and expanders. I don't think you will be able to reach 4000m3 but 2000m3 should not be a problem. You will still have a fast ship with fast algin times that will be hard to catch, plus gankers generally ignore ships not normally used for hauling. But no guarantees.
another option is T1 indys like your badger II. If you only need 4000m3 that leaves you a fair bit of room for tank. for example you can fit a reinforced bulkhead and damage controller in the low slots rather than filling them with cargo expanders. the badger can also fit a few decent shield tank mods. to avoid ganks you want to be around 20,000ehp or a close to it as possible.
the popular ganking ships are the ganknado which can do about 14,000 damage alfa strike and the blaster Talos which only does about 8-10,000 but can usually get off two shots before CONCORD shows up. these ships however are very expensive for ganking T1 indys. the returns just aren't there. Your biggest fear would be the blaster catalyst they put out less damage but are very cheap to buy. if you can get over 20,000 ehp toward kenetic/thermal you are fairly safe. the EHP shown on your ship fitting screan is calculated by your worst resist, usually EM. So if you stack for thermal/kinetic your EHP toward a catalyst will be higher than that. for example if you have 3000 shield hp at 0%em/70%th/72%kn/50%ex resists your sheild ehp will only be 3000 against em but 10,000 against the 70% thermal resist, then you still have armor and hull. With a damage controller II and a reinforced bulkhead or two and some shield extender rigs you should be able to get dam near 20,000 ehp at least toward thermal/kenetic.
No matter what you do you can always be ganked, but it does not take much to make you a less attractive target than the other 20-30 T1 haulers going in and out of Jita at the same time as you. As the old saying goes, "When running from a lion, you do not need to out run the lion, only to out run the person next to you." Gankers will go for the most appealing targets, if you are less appealing then the next guy, you should be safe. |
Kodama Ikari
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
30
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Posted - 2013.03.18 21:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thur Barbek wrote:Just get a t2 transport ship
Yes
Thur Barbek wrote:like the crane.
No
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Issue with that is blockade runners are generally easy to kill
Only if you're afk or REALLY unlucky. Some first-hand PI tips |
Sophia Merchana
Merchana Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.03.18 21:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
What if you maxed out a Badger II with over 18Km3 and threw in 6 Giant Secure Containers and put a password on them and regularly drove in and out of Jita with 0 to ???M isk inside it? That should make you a not very appealing target. |
Termy Rockling
EVE University Ivy League
27
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 21:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sophia Merchana wrote:What if you maxed out a Badger II with over 18Km3 and threw in 6 Giant Secure Containers and put a password on them and regularly drove in and out of Jita with 0 to ???M isk inside it? That should make you a not very appealing target.
Passwords only work when the can is anchored in space, also cargoscanners see inside cans, thats why you need to do the plasticwrap trick to hide stuff. |
Sophia Merchana
Merchana Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.03.18 21:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Termy Rockling wrote: Passwords only work when the can is anchored in space, also cargoscanners see inside cans, thats why you need to do the plasticwrap trick to hide stuff.
Wow, I didn't realize I had been doing that just for luck. That info is what I got from some corpmates. I guess just have my kind of luck then. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2983
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Posted - 2013.03.18 21:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Just drive a plain cargo expanded badger (or tanked, whatever) from the Customs office to a station, then pay someone else the pennies they'll ask to haul it to Jita.
Otherwise, this will get you about 36k Omni EHP heated with pretty even resists. That puts you around the 3 Tornado range to gank.
[Badger Mark II, HS Tank]
Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II EM Ward Field II
[Empty High slot] [Empty High slot]
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1924
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 23:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
A bustard offers a pretty decent tank... 61k before DCU is activated, 80k with it....
[Bustard, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II EM Ward Amplifier II
Improved Cloaking Device II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
One of the few times I recommend passive hardeners over active hardeners is when you think you may be shot before you get the chance to activate your tank. This happens most often when people try to alpha indy ships... hence why I fit resistance amps instead of active hardeners. This is even more-so the case now that active hardeners are no longer give any benefit when not active.
Other Options include using a shield tanked cruiser with the lows used for cargo expanders... Moa can carry 1189 m3, while sporting a 50+ k EHP tank...
Battlecruisers are also decent choices. The Ferox can carry 1250 m3 while sporting a 85+ k EHP tank.
Battleships work too... The Raven can carry 2200+ m3 while sporting an 85+ k EHP tank...
I focused on caldari only because you mentioned you can fly that race... Armor tankers with enough mids to fit a tank make the best choice for heavy cargo carriers.
A domi can carry 2500-3250+ m3 while sporting a 74-60+ k EHP tank...
The truth is though, transport ships are usually ideal. The cloaky version is hard to catch as long as you have insta-undock bookmarks and actively pilot it. The Deep Space Transports can all carry 6+k ish stuff while sporting 80+k EHP tanks... making them excellent tools for the job.
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Trainspotting.
0
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Posted - 2013.03.19 12:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:1) I think it's fairly rare if not very rare for T3 Battlecruisers to be used to suicide gank T1 industrials, blockade runners, & mining vessels UNLESS there is a severe grudge involved. No, grudge is really needed, only lack of reason in choosing the amount of isk you haul on any given day. I will usually gank T1s using nado for loads worth 800mil and above, although lately if I can I use ruppies. Much better profitability ratios.
Quote:2) You don't really want to be transporting more than 30 million ISK worth of goods in a T1 industrial. It attracts too much attention. 3) To my view the only real use for T1 industrials is to empty PI from customs offices and to do level four Distribution missions. I generally won't use T1 industrial outside of those activities.
Again, not really. Depending on circumstances (what you are hauling, what your fit is), you can be fairly ok with loads of up to 300-400 mil, although those can be dangerous zone (particularly if you move through areas with ganking gangs active). Above that, you're asking to be ganked, and probably will be. T1s are fine for a lot of purposes, as long as you use some common sense. Put some basic tank and most people will not bother killing you for cargos of up to 100-150 mil. Although, you can be just unlucky and run into someone bored enough...
Quote:4) As another reply said your best option is to use a Prowler/blockade runner with cloak & inertia stabilizers. Agreed. For OP's purpose, BR with tank (large shield extender, passive resis + dc) would be the way to go.
Quote:5) The primary and usual vessel to gank is the catalyst. In most cases only one will be used. 6) Your suggestion that a 10,000 EHP tank will be enough to survive a gank from a Catalyst is incorrect. Your ship will be turned into scrap at that level. I don't know the exact figure to survive a gank but it is about 18,000 EHP.
Nope. Cata is usually used for ganking miners, where you have the advantage of slow Concord spawns in 0.5 systems and where their high dps plays a significant role in sucessfull gank. For hauler ganking (on gate stuff), minnie ships are the weapon of choice due to their high alphas. Hence - thrashers, ruppies, nados - depending on your target. So, a 10k ehp t1 hauler won't be turned into scrap, at least not on a gate by a solo cata because catalysts can't tank gate guns long enough. Note that I'm talking solo ganking here tho, gang ganking is another thing. |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
329
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 15:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thur Barbek wrote:Just get a t2 transport ship like the crane. Its unscannable, you can tank it decently and still have a MWD on it. Its cloak means you only have a chance to die undocking (fit inertia stabs in low slots to align in 2 seconds.) or if you mess up and sit uncloaked on a gate or something.
Is unscannable cargo hold always a good thing?
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Kodama Ikari
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
31
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Posted - 2013.03.19 15:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:perspective of someone who actually ganks for profit
Thanks for the useful info. Do you only use 1 tornado?
salpad wrote:Is unscannable cargo hold always a good thing? If you're not AFK, it won't matter. If you are AFK, its only bad if you typically AFK with 200 - 400m worth of stuff. That is to say, a cargo valuable enough to make its loss plus the ship painful, but not so valuable that the if guy willing to gank you completely blindly could have scanned you, he would have seen the cargo and ignored you. Then again, back when blockade runners were scannable, the guy doing the scanning could always calculate the value wrong, or the guys in tornado could be bored and looking to take a chance and move on. Really, the answer is just to not be AFK if you don't mind losing your ship. Some first-hand PI tips |
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Trainspotting.
1
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Posted - 2013.03.19 16:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kodama Ikari wrote:Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:perspective of someone who actually ganks for profit Thanks for the useful info. Do you only use 1 tornado?
I do, but you'll find that ganking gangs are plentiful (got to know several groups since I've started doing this). My primary motive is in fact (significant) profit so you won't see me ganking miners or random, low value haulers (I do kill folks with suspect flags whenever I can thought). However guys I've met killed a lot (and I do mean a LOT) of stuff just for the lols, so there are no guarantees that my advice will work in 100% of situations
As for blocade runner ganking, I haven't personaly done it (it's really a lottery), which doesn't mean that I don't get an itchy finger every time I see one. One of these days I just might decide to scratch it.... |
Kryxal
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 18:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Another thing about using Blockade Runners ... if you're doing it right, you should be virtually impossible to catch. Don't use the Perimeter-Jita gate, make a warp to zero BM instead of just warping to 4-4, use insta-undocks, and of course use that cloak you have! For that matter, if you're feeling REALLY paranoid, do the pickup from the POCOs by warping to about 6k and go into orbit at 2k (it's slightly larger, but you'll be within 2500, so you drop cloak, drag cargo in, cloak up, break away). |
Backfyre
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
48
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
For T1, I use a tanked iteron 5 and get about 12,000 EHP. That's about all you get without going to a T2.
A note on ganking damage - review some goon ganks to get an idea on numbers. In a 0.5 system, a destroyer can lay out about 11k damage and a brutix can do 25k. Obviously less in Jita.
At 200M in cargo, a 12M destroyer (or two) will take a bite at you. With insta-warp undocks and warping to 0 to gate or station, you significantly reduce your risk. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1931
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Backfyre wrote:For T1, I use a tanked iteron 5 and get about 12,000 EHP. That's about all you get without going to a T2.
A note on ganking damage - review some goon ganks to get an idea on numbers. In a 0.5 system, a destroyer can lay out about 11k damage and a brutix can do 25k. Obviously less in Jita.
At 200M in cargo, a 12M destroyer (or two) will take a bite at you. With insta-warp undocks and warping to 0 to gate or station, you significantly reduce your risk.
An Itty V can get 20-30k EHP.... depending on how many lows you designate to Bulkheads instead of cargo expanders...
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Desivo Delta Visseroff
Hybrid Flare strange tactical and research syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 15:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Here's a tanked Itty Fit that may fit your needs.... No implants, just skills.
[Iteron Mark V, Tanked Itty]
Low Damage Control II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Power Diagnostic System II
MID Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Shield Recharger II
HIGH Improved Cloaking Device II Small Nosferatu II
RIGS Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
EHP is 16998 Passive shield recharge is 286 Resists are 39/51/63/69 - shields 58/45/45/24 - armor Cargo 7500m3 Price @36Million |
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Hybrid Flare strange tactical and research syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 16:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Or if You like to bring the fight to the gankers......
[Iteron Mark V, Assault Itty]
LOW Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
MID Patterned Stasis Web I Patterned Stasis Web I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II Cap Recharger II
HIGH Modal Electron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Nosferatu II
RIGS Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
EHP is 10,062 DPS is 87 Passive shield recharge is 19 Resists are 39/51/63/69 - shields 58/45/45/24 - armor Cargo 7500m3 Price @26Million
Just hold them, drain them, and slap them to death while laughing away in chat |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3003
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 17:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
4k cargo hurricane.
Lows full of expanders, rigs with expander rigs, one GSC with 3900m-¦ + 100m-¦ left, fit four large shield extenders or invuls or whatever you want.
Gives you plenty of EHP. |
Ackemi
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
In the T1 only cruiser or below range:
[Scythe, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Warp Core Stabilizer I Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II
EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor S [empty high slot]
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Cargohold Optimization I Medium Cargohold Optimization I
30k+ EHP. Fit meta if needed. 1300m3 Cargo. Faster align. Single point won't hold you at a gate. KM ***** on those that do try! Likely they won't even bother to scan you... You will be able to use the logi ship if you want to Pvp in fleets.
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CENTUREAN
Zervas Aeronautics Tribal Band
5
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Posted - 2013.03.29 07:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
All this over 200m?....... Lol what?
I used to haul 3-5b a week to jita from losec every week in a t1 frig semi-afk.
I auto piloted a frigate to jita with 2.5b in the cargo hold and fell asleep. Woke up with pod in space. It was only 2.5b though, not worth worrying about. |
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