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The Apostle
The Black Priests
417
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey, yes, this a serious request to get this answered.
Picked up this snippet posted recently (by Mittens) from a popular site starting with k. Feel free to find and read the whole post for context if you think you need to.
xxxxx snip xxxxxx
Quote:Though we've had a crushing grip on Empire's oxygen windpipe there were the remaining pockets of oxygen stockpilers and speculators have been leaking onto the market, betting against us. Those stockpiles appear to be reaching their end: sell orders have started thinning out, and buy orders have begun marching steadily upwards. There's only a few largeish orders that's the last real barrier between sustained 1k prices. Oxygen prices have already nearly destroyed gallente reactor profitability: 1k and above should be enough to shut them down and send Empire into a panic. After all, once it's clear the interdiction is working, if you need oxygen for you ships or your towers suddenly it's time to get it before it goes even higher.
At that point, all hell breaks loose as the well runs dry. Drought and pestilence everywhere.
I'm going to ignore the "lolz" and "personal gain" ethos that has been attributed to this campaign and seek a response based on the underlined points.
Mittens. If you're right and the interdiction DOES bring empire to it's knees it will only do so because you will push inflation through the roof.
This genuinly concerns me so I ask these questions in a contrite manner and will refrain from being a smartass.
Question 1) Why does Empire need to be sent "into a panic" with "drought and pestilence everywhere"?
Question 2) As the CSM chair (with it's inherent Eve representation), you're OK that this potentially ruins the economic model for everyone?
Question 3) If the economic model is smashed by inflation, do you realize that CCP could simply become proactive on indy ganking and stop it all. Are you giving them cause? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Goddess Ishtar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.10.14 22:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think somebody has forgotten that Eve Online is a game. |
Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Iure Divino
44
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
I can answer these, I think:
1) Goons set out to destroy any MMO they enter.
2) See #1.
3) See #1. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
417
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Goddess Ishtar wrote:I think somebody has forgotten that Eve Online is a game. Correct. But I think you'll agree that a lot of RL cash and RL time goes into making it the game it is. YEARS of RL investment in fact. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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John Rothman
Sleeper Asset Relocation Services
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Goddess Ishtar wrote:I think somebody has forgotten that Eve Online is a game.
^ this
If they can make profit on it, and they have fun doing it, why give a flying frak about you? |
Infinimo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
hahaha |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
576
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
EVE's economy has value in that it generates gameplay and player stories, not because we need to meet our annual GNP goal. A chaotic, fluctuating commodities market is a terrible thing to happen in RL, but an awesome thing to happen in a game.
Economic warfare of this kind is much like shooting warfare. Horrible on the news, awesome in game. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Infinimo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't speak for mittens but 1) because we can 2) yes 3) lmao |
Infinimo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:EVE's economy has value in that it generates gameplay and player stories, not because we need to meet our annual GNP goal. A chaotic, fluctuating commodities market is a terrible thing to happen in RL, but an awesome thing to happen in a game.
Economic warfare of this kind is much like shooting warfare. Horrible on the news, awesome in game. thanks for ruining my double post you meany |
Goddess Ishtar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Goddess Ishtar wrote:I think somebody has forgotten that Eve Online is a game. Correct. But I think you'll agree that a lot of RL cash and RL time goes into making it the game it is. YEARS of RL investment in fact. So what? Nothing we are doing is against the rules and if CCP attempted to shield the carebears by changing the rules it would have a much bigger negative impact on the game than anything we're doing. That's what you're asking them to do, isn't it--provide some sort of mechanism where people in highsec are completely safe all the time?
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Infinimo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Goddess Ishtar wrote:The Apostle wrote:Goddess Ishtar wrote:I think somebody has forgotten that Eve Online is a game. Correct. But I think you'll agree that a lot of RL cash and RL time goes into making it the game it is. YEARS of RL investment in fact. So what? Nothing we are doing is against the rules and if CCP attempted to shield the carebears by changing the rules it would have a much bigger negative impact on the game than anything we're doing. That's what you're asking them to do, isn't it--provide some sort of mechanism where people in highsec are completely safe all the time? not emptyquoting |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
57
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
If/when they stop, wont you see heaps of people mining again and making isk from the inflated prices, and after awhile everything will slowly return to normal?
CCP might think it'd be interesting to see how well the Economy recovers from something like this. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
417
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:EVE's economy has value in that it generates gameplay and player stories, not because we need to meet our annual GNP goal. A chaotic, fluctuating commodities market is a terrible thing to happen in RL, but an awesome thing to happen in a game.
Economic warfare of this kind is much like shooting warfare. Horrible on the news, awesome in game. I'll accept that economic warfare can be fun but it's a no win for anybody unless the protaganist has or can manipulate all of the goods. They don't nor can they.
They can maipulate the production but that just fuels general inflation, for all parties. Why bother? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
101
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Goons have notoriously short attention spans. They will not be able to keep this prolonged Gallente-Ice-Thing adventure up for much longer, before they get bored and move on to something else.
That said, I think it's great they are doing what they are doing. It breathes some much needed life into the game. It's the players who create the conflict and content, and players have been in a malaise since Incarna released. That the Goons are on this little escapade and raising the hackles of players everywhere ... goddamned ******* awesome! The War-Free University-á- http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com/2011/10/war-free-university.html |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
77
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
All your questions could be answered with a single answer.
The Mittani is an ass who would rather see EvE fail than do the right and responsible thing as CSM chair to help CCP improve EvE.
This is the typical assinine mentality of a Goon. Can't expect anything less from thier leader. Frankly I seriously doubt he is actually causing the damage he wants to Empire.
But...it is a sandbox game. If Goonswarm wants to act as the "cancer of EvE" that it is and work towards EvE's destruction and downfall then so be it. Perhaps CCP will ban them from EvE like Second Life did so long ago. Draculina Alucardi...3rd account canceled, no reason to hold an account for a SC pilot, if you can only use it in PVP ... thanks CCP :)-á Support the cause! Linky |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
417
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
non judgement wrote:If/when they stop, wont you see heaps of people mining again and making isk from the inflated prices, and after awhile everything will slowly return to normal?
CCP might think it'd be interesting to see how well the Economy recovers from something like this. Yeah, valid point. I have mentioned myself that it really needs to be a very long and sustained campaign to have the effect Mittens claims he's after.
It's why I'm asking because they can't do it but have convinced their members they can. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Infinimo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Goons have notoriously short attention spans. They will not be able to keep this prolonged Gallente-Ice-Thing adventure up for much longer, before they get bored and move on to something else.
That said, I think it's great they are doing what they are doing. It breathes some much needed life into the game. It's the players who create the conflict and content, and players have been in a malaise since Incarna released. That the Goons are on this little escapade and raising the hackles of players everywhere ... goddamned ******* awesome! Oxytope prices just went over 1000 because of lack of supply (not speculation this time) and we're still going strong we set up a whole subforum, scoreboard and reward system for this. sorry to burst your bubble but it isn't ending any time soon |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
660
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kazanir and I actually wrote that, mittens reposted it to kugu |
Trainwreck McGee
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
To me Goons bring out the beauty in the sandbox.
And no i'm not sucking up to them they can royally go **** themselves. CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Karim alRashid
Aliastra Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
If EVE economy is gonna get ruined, the main credit for this goes to CCP with their absurd CONCORD bounty payments.
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Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
660
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
"because we can" |
Infinimo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
you made me miss the snipe weaselior :( |
Goddess Ishtar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:It's why I'm asking because they can't do it but have convinced their members they can. Then why do you care?
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Infinimo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
basically we are waving our collective dicks in the faces of the eve community |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
660
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
also this is the most fun many of us have had with this game in years
empire is an untapped source of people who aren't so jaded from being savaged by goons that it's fun again to cause suffering and misery |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
417
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Kazanir and I actually wrote that, mittens reposted it to kugu Thx for the heads up. I missed the attribution. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
660
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:non judgement wrote:If/when they stop, wont you see heaps of people mining again and making isk from the inflated prices, and after awhile everything will slowly return to normal?
CCP might think it'd be interesting to see how well the Economy recovers from something like this. Yeah, valid point. I have mentioned myself that it really needs to be a very long and sustained campaign to have the effect Mittens claims he's after. It's why I'm asking because they can't do it but have convinced their members they can.
every single moon reaction on a gallente tower (the best :effort: tower for anything but carbides) now loses money except fullerides and nanotransistors which are insanely profitable for some reason) because fueling a gallente pos costs 500m a month |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
102
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
Question 1) Why does Empire need to be sent "into a panic" with "drought and pestilence everywhere"?
Question 2) As the CSM chair (with it's inherent Eve representation), you're OK that this potentially ruins the economic model for everyone?
Question 3) If the economic model is smashed by inflation, do you realize that CCP could simply become proactive on indy ganking and stop it all. Are you giving them cause?
Answer #1: The Mittanni himself admitted that he is sadistic. As someone else mentioned, goons joined EVE to destroy it. However, they discovered that EVE was the PERFECT game for their antics.
Answers #2 and #3: You fail to understand the robustness of EVE's economy. The only thing that this event has done is shift supply and demand around. So yeah, maybe fuel is more expensive. This has very little to do with T1 goods, as those can EASILY be manufactured without ever touching a POS, so long as you are willing to wait for your ME research.
The WORST CASE is that T2 returns to pre-invention prices, and everyone starts flying T1 again. Even if Goonswarm takes it a step farther and tries to prevent T1 industry from happening, then people will just go back to flying cruisers and rifters. Not even Goonswarm can stop people from mining in noobships. |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
660
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
i mean I just go all :3: at that 500m a month for a gallente tower bit |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
660
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
oops |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
577
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Infinimo wrote:Malcanis wrote:EVE's economy has value in that it generates gameplay and player stories, not because we need to meet our annual GNP goal. A chaotic, fluctuating commodities market is a terrible thing to happen in RL, but an awesome thing to happen in a game.
Economic warfare of this kind is much like shooting warfare. Horrible on the news, awesome in game. thanks for ruining my double post you meany
Please accept my sincere apologies. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
417
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:The Apostle wrote:non judgement wrote:If/when they stop, wont you see heaps of people mining again and making isk from the inflated prices, and after awhile everything will slowly return to normal?
CCP might think it'd be interesting to see how well the Economy recovers from something like this. Yeah, valid point. I have mentioned myself that it really needs to be a very long and sustained campaign to have the effect Mittens claims he's after. It's why I'm asking because they can't do it but have convinced their members they can. every single moon reaction on a gallente tower (the best :effort: tower for anything but carbides) now loses money except fullerides and nanotransistors which are insanely profitable for some reason) because fueling a gallente pos costs 500m a month And here's the thing (as also mentioned above).
For all the "drought and pestilence" rhetoric it is only going to hurt moon owning alliances and pilots who want to fly T2.
That's why I'm asking why Mittens is even bothering? The fun and frolics bit I already get but that's not the bit I eluded to in the OP.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
87
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:i mean I just go all :3: at that 500m a month for a gallente tower bit I get the same way when I log in and look at the price history graph for oxytopes.
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non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
57
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:The Apostle wrote:non judgement wrote:If/when they stop, wont you see heaps of people mining again and making isk from the inflated prices, and after awhile everything will slowly return to normal?
CCP might think it'd be interesting to see how well the Economy recovers from something like this. Yeah, valid point. I have mentioned myself that it really needs to be a very long and sustained campaign to have the effect Mittens claims he's after. It's why I'm asking because they can't do it but have convinced their members they can. every single moon reaction on a gallente tower (the best :effort: tower for anything but carbides) now loses money except fullerides and nanotransistors which are insanely profitable for some reason) because fueling a gallente pos costs 500m a month Some people might be silly enough to change over to another races pos just for the lower price of the fuel... ofc they'd have to watch their silos more and possibly change how often they visit the pos, because of the smaller silo sizes? |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
660
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:And here's the thing (as also mentioned above).
For all the "drought and pestilence" rhetoric it is only going to hurt moon owning alliances and pilots who want to fly T2.
That's why I'm asking why Mittens is even bothering? The fun and frolics bit I already get but that's not the bit I eluded to in the OP.
and people who make t2 items, and people who run t2 reactions for money, etc
i'll be satisfied with blowing up the t2 economy but the economic contagion is already spreading to other fuels we haven't hit in an organized fashion and hopefully it'll see more ripples out :3: |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
87
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
It's reassuring to know that when I finally get committed to mental institution that there will be easy access to a computer with internet so I, too, can never stop posting. |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
660
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Some people might be silly enough to change over to another races pos just for the lower price of the fuel... ofc they'd have to watch their silos more and possibly change how often they visit the pos.
forcing someone to tear down and replace towers is basically the height of griefing you just stole hours of their life they must now spend doing some of the most annoying tasks in eve |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
102
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:The Apostle wrote:non judgement wrote:If/when they stop, wont you see heaps of people mining again and making isk from the inflated prices, and after awhile everything will slowly return to normal?
CCP might think it'd be interesting to see how well the Economy recovers from something like this. Yeah, valid point. I have mentioned myself that it really needs to be a very long and sustained campaign to have the effect Mittens claims he's after. It's why I'm asking because they can't do it but have convinced their members they can. every single moon reaction on a gallente tower (the best :effort: tower for anything but carbides) now loses money except fullerides and nanotransistors which are insanely profitable for some reason) because fueling a gallente pos costs 500m a month
Switch to Amarr towers then? You can still run reactions on those, and they still get a 50% bonus to silo capacity. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
57
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
I actually enjoyed onlining and offlining a pos when I had one. But it was a novelty for me. Only doing research stuff. |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
661
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:Switch to Amarr towers then? You can still run reactions on those, and they still get a 50% bonus to silo capacity. pretty sure you can't because of their hideously low CPU but I could be wrong |
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Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
102
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:19:00 -
[41] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:you use caldari instead, which makes up for their lack of silo bonus by having a shitload of cpu
No, don't tel..!
I mean, SUSH you, using Caldari Towers is a TERRIBLE idea. |
John Rothman
Sleeper Asset Relocation Services
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
I'm not sure what's funnier... that you think this would make EVE "fail", that you think this is what Goons are actually doing, or that this wouldn't improve EVE.
Just full of LOL.
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:All your questions could be answered with a single answer.
The Mittani is an ass who would rather see EvE fail than do the right and responsible thing as CSM chair to help CCP improve EvE.
This is the typical assinine mentality of a Goon. Can't expect anything less from thier leader. Frankly I seriously doubt he is actually causing the damage he wants to Empire.
But...it is a sandbox game. If Goonswarm wants to act as the "cancer of EvE" that it is and work towards EvE's destruction and downfall then so be it. Perhaps CCP will ban them from EvE like Second Life did so long ago.
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
78
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
oh no ships and modules might become expensive again.
losses becoming meaningful will surely be the death of eve |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 23:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
things happens, they come and go and in the larger scheme it doesn't really matter. What matter is that people engaging in such or against it have fun doing it. The value of their time its on theirs shoulders. |
JamesCLK
Lone Star Exploration Narwhals Ate My Duck
13
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
Posting in a srs thread.
Goons aren't out to ruin THE game, they're out to ruin YOUR game. This has always held true; afterall, why would goons try to ruin a game that caters to their favorite playstyle (namely being dicks <3)?
I always say: Less QQ, more PEW PEW. If you don't like bending over to goons, stand up and fight back. Don't make yourself a target, use regular mining barges instead of exhumers. You'll still mine a bit of valuable ice when you don't get ganked, but losses won't hurt as much. Get creative and make defence pacts with other mining corps.
Right now, those hisec bears that are just backing down are being spineless slugs. Don't like it? Do something about it.
Just my 2 cents.
NB: I also think CCP would rather see how the economy adjusts and/or recovers, than step in and ban the oh so lovely goons. EDIT: Clarification - Mittens is tired of people thinking hisec is safe, he finds great joy in proving the contrary. Tears ensue. Adapt or die. |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:02:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mehrdad Kor-Azor wrote:
1) Goons set out to destroy any MMO they enter. .
That's just a little pathetic. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
89
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:Mehrdad Kor-Azor wrote:
1) Goons set out to destroy any MMO they enter. .
That's just a little pathetic. More so because it's not true.
|
Mixne
More Money More Problems
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:Mehrdad Kor-Azor wrote:
1) Goons set out to destroy any MMO they enter. .
That's just a little pathetic.
Pretty sure stuff like this pops up simply due to the population Goons bring to games. I know back in my earlier days of gaming, Goons annoyed me when I joined an MMO and landed on a "Goon server". It had nothing to do with me knowing who they were, but more to do with me seeing them everywhere. I'm older now and less apt to make a quick, unjustified judgement like that and the Goons don't annoy me at all. In fact, anyone that understands the concept of a "sandbox" should be applauding them for driving the sandbox. Of course, getting blown up by them and set back some large number of hours of "work" kind of sucks. However, those hours of "work" should have been fun, which offsets the loss. If they weren't fun, you may be better off doing something else in EVE... something that IS fun to you. |
Cerisia
Lone Star enterprises
86
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:38:00 -
[49] - Quote
I've recently returned after a long break, sailed into the whole "Incarna is bad mkay" thing (which was quite right IMO) and I've seen first hand how GS has made this game suddenly interesting and fun again (yeah ok , I don't mine - so it's not affecting me first hand)
The miners (that have balls anyway) are banding together and trying to work out ways of beating Goon attacks, Goons are suddenly everywhere in the forums. TBH I've not had as much fun in an MMO for ages and long may it continue.
That said I wouldn't trust a Goon farther than I can throw one - but that's just a healthy reaction me thinks :) I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
I'm not gonna lie this is kind of funny. It doesn't hurt me at all so go for it goons! |
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Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
78
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:53:00 -
[51] - Quote
John Rothman wrote:I'm not sure what's funnier... that you think this would make EVE "fail", that you think this is what Goons are actually doing, or that this wouldn't improve EVE. Just full of LOL. Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:All your questions could be answered with a single answer.
The Mittani is an ass who would rather see EvE fail than do the right and responsible thing as CSM chair to help CCP improve EvE.
This is the typical assinine mentality of a Goon. Can't expect anything less from thier leader. Frankly I seriously doubt he is actually causing the damage he wants to Empire.
But...it is a sandbox game. If Goonswarm wants to act as the "cancer of EvE" that it is and work towards EvE's destruction and downfall then so be it. Perhaps CCP will ban them from EvE like Second Life did so long ago.
It really doesn't suprise me that you are too stupid to read since I specifically stated that I really doubt that what GS is doing is having the effect Mittani really desired.
You very much are full of LOL. Draculina Alucardi...3rd account canceled, no reason to hold an account for a SC pilot, if you can only use it in PVP ... thanks CCP :)-á Support the cause! Linky |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
161
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 00:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
just mine ice in a procurer, nobody's going to bother with you |
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 01:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
In keeping with my instructions from CCP (under penalty of forum banning) to only post positve remarks concerning the Goons and the game I am hereby stating my full support for the actions of the Goons and applaud their effort to destroy the game balance (and indeed the game itself) through metagaming and mechanics exploitation.
BRAVO GOONS ! |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
50
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 01:14:00 -
[54] - Quote
Karim alRashid wrote:If EVE economy is gonna get ruined, the main credit for this goes to CCP with their absurd CONCORD bounty payments.
Oh no .. Q Q all over the floor. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
149
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 01:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
All economic debates aside, if you're asking the Mittani a serious bizness question, URDOINITWRONG.
But the serious bizness answer is, they're doing it for attention, fun, and to push the economy in ways it hasn't been pushed in a while. Fame, fun, and testing the capabilities and resilience of an computerized trade model, are all completely legit ways to play the game. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
155
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 01:29:00 -
[56] - Quote
Who said that the CSM are supposed to represent everyone?
They are supposed to represent those that have voted in them. If goons are the most "organized" (heh) group in this game and can easelly set us up the CSM, then tough luck. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 01:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Who said that the CSM are supposed to represent everyone?
They are supposed to represent those that have voted in them. If goons are the most "organized" (heh) group in this game and can easelly set us up the CSM, then tough luck.
CORRECTION: If the Goons are the most NUMEROUS in the game, then via a purely "majority rule" they are certain to be heavily represented. Might be an arguement for a more republican form of CSM. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
151
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 01:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
Cerisia wrote:I've recently returned after a long break, sailed into the whole "Incarna is bad mkay" thing (which was quite right IMO) and I've seen first hand how GS has made this game suddenly interesting and fun again (yeah ok , I don't mine - so it's not affecting me first hand)
The miners (that have balls anyway) are banding together and trying to work out ways of beating Goon attacks, Goons are suddenly everywhere in the forums. TBH I've not had as much fun in an MMO for ages and long may it continue.
That said I wouldn't trust a Goon farther than I can throw one - but that's just a healthy reaction me thinks :)
Cerisia gets it. I wish the rest of the EvE community had this attitude - positive, creative, and resilient in the face of opposition. Sadly, most wish to complain instead when presented with a challenge.
And a challenge, really, is all this 'Oxytope crisis" really is. Something to force you to change your mode of operation - find alternatives. Think outside the box, think on your feet. To push you to take risks - mine in more dangerous areas or new territory, to try new ships or towers, or other activities for income.
Think of the whole expansion fight, WiS, FiS, all that crap. The whole big deal over the last few months has been a bunch of bored players begging CCP to provide deeper challenge, and more content.
The Goons are giving that to you NOW. No waiting. No debating. It's arguable more real, and more impactful, than the Incursions CCP spent months working on.
I'll stop feeding Goon egos now, but seriously everyone - there are lots of workarounds to the Goon attacks. Step up your game. Move out of the kiddie pool and into the deep end, or you're going to get shot. The lifeguard is posted, and he's the one with the sniper rifle. |
A Lunchbox
Basgerin Pirate
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 01:44:00 -
[59] - Quote
This is almost as funny as when Goons joined AOC and farmed level 20s in Khopshef province with level 80 chars for like 4 months. Freaking hillarious.
P.S. they got rolled out of the game by a giant NAP fest of carebear guilds burning their guild city to the ground. Just saying, carebears. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
155
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 01:49:00 -
[60] - Quote
A Lunchbox wrote:This is almost as funny as when Goons joined AOC and farmed level 20s in Khopshef province with level 80 chars for like 4 months. Freaking hillarious.
P.S. they got rolled out of the game by a giant NAP fest of carebear guilds burning their guild city to the ground. Just saying, carebears.
Goons got beaten by carebears in a game where men run half naked and women run with their boobs showing?
The irony. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
151
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 02:08:00 -
[61] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Goons got beaten by carebears in a game where men run half naked and women run with their boobs showing?
The irony.
Not ironic,depressing. Apparently the players of that game have twice the balls of the average whiny EvE Player. |
Jita Alt666
353
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 02:26:00 -
[62] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote:In keeping with my instructions from CCP (under penalty of forum banning) to only post positve remarks concerning the Goons and the game I am hereby stating my full support for the actions of the Goons and applaud their effort to destroy the game balance (and indeed the game itself) through metagaming and mechanics exploitation.
BRAVO GOONS !
On a side note that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOONS, My postings on third party game review forums have quadrupled in number and grown quite negtive in nature. Anyone reading them will certainly not bother trying EVE. (Hey, if the Goons are working to destroy EVE, then I should too.)
Im pretty sure posts like this will encourage more and more goons to come and enjoy eve.
You are helping CCP grow the game. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 03:39:00 -
[63] - Quote
Infinimo wrote:Oxytope prices just went over 1000 because of lack of supply (not speculation this time) and we're still going strong we set up a whole subforum, scoreboard and reward system for this. sorry to burst your bubble but it isn't ending any time soon
Assuming the campaign is very good and can shut down the majority of OxyIso, people will shift to the other fuels over time. The campaign will have to expand, and thus decrease the efficeny of the campaign and life will be back to normal of the occasional suicide in some bot infested ice belt.
Have fun while it lasts, but in the long run it won't change much. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 03:50:00 -
[64] - Quote
Goddess Ishtar wrote:I think somebody has forgotten that Eve Online is a game.
Quite right, but it's not the OP who's fallen to this, it's Mittens.
|
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 03:57:00 -
[65] - Quote
JamesCLK wrote:Posting in a srs thread.
Goons aren't out to ruin THE game, they're out to ruin YOUR game. This has always held true; afterall, why would goons try to ruin a game that caters to their favorite playstyle (namely being dicks <3)?
I always say: Less QQ, more PEW PEW. If you don't like bending over to goons, stand up and fight back. Don't make yourself a target, use regular mining barges instead of exhumers. You'll still mine a bit of valuable ice when you don't get ganked, but losses won't hurt as much. Get creative and make defence pacts with other mining corps.
Right now, those hisec bears that are just backing down are being spineless slugs. Don't like it? Do something about it.
Just my 2 cents.
NB: I also think CCP would rather see how the economy adjusts and/or recovers, than step in and ban the oh so lovely goons. EDIT: Clarification - Mittens is tired of people thinking hisec is safe, he finds great joy in proving the contrary. Tears ensue. Adapt or die.
This.
EVE's Carebears need to stop being such revoltingly soft and squishy entitlement-menatlity victims, and grow some ******* teeth.
Oh, and like I said, it seems like it's Mittens taking this game too seriously, not us "pubbies. (whatever those are)." |
FlamesOfHeaven
Sarif Digital Augmentation Research
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 04:15:00 -
[66] - Quote
Well.. all I know know is that Oxygen Isotope shortage is just gonna screw ppl using gallente control tower and some supercaps (Nyx ).
Straving the supercaps? Sounds like a plan.
Dont see why theres alot of cheese/wine lately. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
122
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 05:20:00 -
[67] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Question 1) Why does Empire need to be sent "into a panic" with "drought and pestilence everywhere"?
Question 2) As the CSM chair (with it's inherent Eve representation), you're OK that this potentially ruins the economic model for everyone?
Question 3) If the economic model is smashed by inflation, do you realize that CCP could simply become proactive on indy ganking and stop it all. Are you giving them cause?
I was going to reply to this with a nice thoughtful explanation, mostly about pointing out that the backbone of the EVE Online economy is founded on miner bots and if the economic model is based on something that is against the freaking rules and if we feel that CCP is not fulfilling their obligation to clean up this mess then by god, we can certainly help out...
... Followed up with a quick reply pointing out that by allowing these fat afk pubbies to dominate highsec unmolested then they gain an incorrectly large amount of influence over the economy, CCP's ear, et cetera, which compounds every other problem with the game (See also: recent mission buffs that benefit AFK Mission runners combined with nerfs to Nullsec Sanctums) ...
... Followed up one more time with the fact that killing them is fun and there's nothing against the rules in it ....
I was going to post something like that.
But then I realized it's The Apostle. Making a "WAAH, GOONIES ARE MEAN" thread. AGAIN.
Buddha gently caressing Jesus in a love shack, this is what, your 15th thread crying about Mittani, Goons, or Mittani being in Goons? And to say nothing about the dozens upon dozens of replies you put in every thread mentioning Goons?
I never thought I'd have to say this on the EVE forums of all places, cause god knows I need one too (hell, I'm a nullsec anom runner that didn't quit after the Sanctum nerf), but I'll say it:
GET A LIFE. |
Avid Bumhumper
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 05:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:The Apostle wrote:non judgement wrote:If/when they stop, wont you see heaps of people mining again and making isk from the inflated prices, and after awhile everything will slowly return to normal?
CCP might think it'd be interesting to see how well the Economy recovers from something like this. Yeah, valid point. I have mentioned myself that it really needs to be a very long and sustained campaign to have the effect Mittens claims he's after. It's why I'm asking because they can't do it but have convinced their members they can. every single moon reaction on a gallente tower (the best :effort: tower for anything but carbides) now loses money except fullerides and nanotransistors which are insanely profitable for some reason) because fueling a gallente pos costs 500m a month
It only costs 500 mil a month if your dumb enough not to stockpile.... |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
122
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 05:30:00 -
[69] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote:On a side note that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOONS, My postings on third party game review forums have quadrupled in number and grown quite negtive in nature. Anyone reading them will certainly not bother trying EVE. (Hey, if the Goons are working to destroy EVE, then I should too.)
More tears, man, I can still see some dry parts of your keyboard. |
Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 05:54:00 -
[70] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Hey, yes, this a serious request to get this answered. Picked up this snippet posted recently (by Mittens) from a popular site starting with k. Feel free to find and read the whole post for context if you think you need to. xxxxx snip xxxxxx Quote:Though we've had a crushing grip on Empire's oxygen windpipe there were the remaining pockets of oxygen stockpilers and speculators have been leaking onto the market, betting against us. Those stockpiles appear to be reaching their end: sell orders have started thinning out, and buy orders have begun marching steadily upwards. There's only a few largeish orders that's the last real barrier between sustained 1k prices. Oxygen prices have already nearly destroyed gallente reactor profitability: 1k and above should be enough to shut them down and send Empire into a panic. After all, once it's clear the interdiction is working, if you need oxygen for you ships or your towers suddenly it's time to get it before it goes even higher.
At that point, all hell breaks loose as the well runs dry. Drought and pestilence everywhere. I'm going to ignore the "lolz" and "personal gain" ethos that has been attributed to this campaign and seek a response based on the underlined points. Mittens. If you're right and the interdiction DOES bring empire to it's knees it will only do so because you will push inflation through the roof. This genuinly concerns me so I ask these questions in a contrite manner and will refrain from being a smartass. Question 1) Why does Empire need to be sent "into a panic" with "drought and pestilence everywhere"? Question 2) As the CSM chair (with it's inherent Eve representation), you're OK that this potentially ruins the economic model for everyone? Question 3) If the economic model is smashed by inflation, do you realize that CCP could simply become proactive on indy ganking and stop it all. Are you giving them cause?
You would be amazed at how game mechanics have changed over the years as a direct result of goons exploiting various situations. 'Bumping' is one of the better known ones. Personally I hope this will result in Insurance payouts for suicided ships in high sec being removed.. but such is hope. |
|
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
143
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 05:56:00 -
[71] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Question 1) Why does Empire need to be sent "into a panic" with "drought and pestilence everywhere"?
Question 2) As the CSM chair (with it's inherent Eve representation), you're OK that this potentially ruins the economic model for everyone?
Question 3) If the economic model is smashed by inflation, do you realize that CCP could simply become proactive on indy ganking and stop it all. Are you giving them cause?
1. Because we're Goons. 2. Yes...because we're Goons. 3. They've done it before, and they're thinking about doing it again, and we'll find a way around it again...because we're Goons.
Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 06:04:00 -
[72] - Quote
Avid Bumhumper wrote:It only costs 500 mil a month if your dumb enough not to stockpile....
Opportunity costs...how do they work?!
|
Tear Miner
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 06:06:00 -
[73] - Quote
Is there some way to take away The Apostle's 400+ likes for this one thread?
Seriously, guy? This is a video game. Look at all the drama it causes, and I bet CCP is going to make mention of this to ADVERTISE how much of a sandbox build your own empire change the world etc. type of game Eve Online is.
I don't know.... maybe, just maybe do something useful and come up with a counter to the oxygen isotope crisis, in-game, instead of whining about it on the forums. |
Fuujin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 06:06:00 -
[74] - Quote
Avid Bumhumper wrote:
It only costs 500 mil a month if your dumb enough not to stockpile....
You know if you mine the oxygen isotopes, they're free!
|
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
122
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 06:12:00 -
[75] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:Goons got beaten by carebears in a game where men run half naked and women run with their boobs showing?
The irony. Not ironic,depressing. Apparently the players of that game have twice the balls of the average whiny EvE Player.
Actually, it's just that AoC is utter **** and Goons burning it could only IMPROVE that one. That and after 4 months of Goons trolling it the game was dead. Not cause of Goons trolling, but because, well, did I mention AoC is a bad bad game? |
Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 06:19:00 -
[76] - Quote
Xython wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:Goons got beaten by carebears in a game where men run half naked and women run with their boobs showing?
The irony. Not ironic,depressing. Apparently the players of that game have twice the balls of the average whiny EvE Player. Actually, it's just that AoC is utter **** and Goons burning it could only IMPROVE that one. That and after 4 months of Goons trolling it the game was dead. Not cause of Goons trolling, but because, well, did I mention AoC is a bad bad game?
Didn't want that game anyways |
Shadowsword
The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 06:32:00 -
[77] - Quote
The Apostle wrote: Question 1) Why does Empire need to be sent "into a panic" with "drought and pestilence everywhere"?
Question 2) As the CSM chair (with it's inherent Eve representation), you're OK that this potentially ruins the economic model for everyone?
Question 3) If the economic model is smashed by inflation, do you realize that CCP could simply become proactive on indy ganking and stop it all. Are you giving them cause?
1/ Because they have fun doing it. Is there need of a better reason? They also get money from it.
2/ Official IRL position =/= InGame position.
3/ You're overestimating the Goons if you think they'll disrupt the market. All they do is redistribute a bit the cards where profitability is concerned. |
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 07:21:00 -
[78] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote:In keeping with my instructions from CCP (under penalty of forum banning) to only post positve remarks concerning the Goons and the game I am hereby stating my full support for the actions of the Goons and applaud their effort to destroy the game balance (and indeed the game itself) through metagaming and mechanics exploitation.
BRAVO GOONS !
On a side note that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOONS, My postings on third party game review forums have quadrupled in number and grown quite negtive in nature. Anyone reading them will certainly not bother trying EVE. (Hey, if the Goons are working to destroy EVE, then I should too.) Im pretty sure posts like this will encourage more and more goons to come and enjoy eve. You are helping CCP grow the game.
Well glad you approve.. I'll keep doing it. |
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 07:26:00 -
[79] - Quote
Xython wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote:On a side note that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOONS, My postings on third party game review forums have quadrupled in number and grown quite negtive in nature. Anyone reading them will certainly not bother trying EVE. (Hey, if the Goons are working to destroy EVE, then I should too.) More tears, man, I can still see some dry parts of your keyboard.
I'm not crying.. CCP is... after all it's their goat that gets axed..
as for ice.. I could not care less.. I don't use it or need it. I'm just doing what I was told to. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
588
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 07:31:00 -
[80] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Cerisia wrote:I've recently returned after a long break, sailed into the whole "Incarna is bad mkay" thing (which was quite right IMO) and I've seen first hand how GS has made this game suddenly interesting and fun again (yeah ok , I don't mine - so it's not affecting me first hand)
The miners (that have balls anyway) are banding together and trying to work out ways of beating Goon attacks, Goons are suddenly everywhere in the forums. TBH I've not had as much fun in an MMO for ages and long may it continue.
That said I wouldn't trust a Goon farther than I can throw one - but that's just a healthy reaction me thinks :) Cerisia gets it. I wish the rest of the EvE community had this attitude - positive, creative, and resilient in the face of opposition. Sadly, most wish to complain instead when presented with a challenge. And a challenge, really, is all this 'Oxytope crisis" really is. Something to force you to change your mode of operation - find alternatives. Think outside the box, think on your feet. To push you to take risks - mine in more dangerous areas or new territory, to try new ships or towers, or other activities for income. Think of the whole expansion fight, WiS, FiS, all that crap. The whole big deal over the last few months has been a bunch of bored players begging CCP to provide deeper challenge, and more content. The Goons are giving that to you NOW. No waiting. No debating. It's arguable more real, and more impactful, than the Incursions CCP spent months working on. I'll stop feeding Goon egos now, but seriously everyone - there are lots of workarounds to the Goon attacks. Step up your game. Move out of the kiddie pool and into the deep end, or you're going to get shot. The lifeguard is posted, and he's the one with the sniper rifle.
You have summed up the situation perfectly, IMO.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
|
Lamya Fox
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 07:48:00 -
[81] - Quote
You people need to diffrentiate between Mittens the CSM and Mittens the leader of the Goons.
They are not One in the same. Think of it as a man with two hats on. When dealing with the CSM he would be representing the EVE community. But when he is playing EVE he is playing EVE as the leader of his corp/alliance.
|
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
313
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 07:53:00 -
[82] - Quote
One of the great things about Eve is that you can use military power to affect the economic abilities of your opponents. What we're seeing here is simply an extension of that.
Also let's not forget that in the real world there are quite a few commodities where the supply is controlled by just a handful of companies or countries. If the rest of world doesn't like it, then they're welcome to use force to grab some of that supply for themselves.
And so it is in Eve. If you don't like the Goons controlling the supply of oxygen, then take it from them. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Guy Grand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 07:54:00 -
[83] - Quote
Goonswarm makes EVE better. They do that by being very capable and adept "bad guys". Are they damaging EVE with their economic warfare? No, in fact they are doing the opposite.
And no, they are not going to just get bored and do something else. The only thing that is going to stop them is finding a newer and better way to cause grief and misery. And even then that's a maybe.
What to do? Figure out how to make money from this of course, duh. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
588
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 08:11:00 -
[84] - Quote
The amusing thing is that the OP, by the very act of making threads like this, is perpetuating and encouraging the goons in their campaign.
Indeed, one might almost suspect that he... Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Chera Frane
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 08:32:00 -
[85] - Quote
Infinimo wrote:basically we are waving our collective dicks in the faces of the eve community
At last! The real and pathetic reason for the Goons. They are just a bunch of flashers.
|
Cidwm
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 08:36:00 -
[86] - Quote
The goons like to have a monopoly on something. Could possibly be there way of gaining extra money since im hoping people are becoming more wise to there scams, or starve oxygen resources from potential invading alliances. Not sure on the exact situation in there area of EVE space since my sources don't really bother with it but having a monopoly over 1 resource can make them very rich gits to fund there warmachine if they can pull it off. Also on a side note, would like to point out that if you look at the CSM roster for the CSM 6, 5 out of the 14 names, inlcuding the CSM chair all come the same coalition that i know of. certainly this can't be healthy for EVE for them to have such an influence on EVE from that respect as well!
It's nice to see some market PVP in action mind. Good thing i don't actually use that particual resource much :) |
Cedille Mureau
Institute of Archaeology
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 08:51:00 -
[87] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Who said that the CSM are supposed to represent everyone?
They are supposed to represent those that have voted in them. If goons are the most "organized" (heh) group in this game and can easelly set us up the CSM, then tough luck.
I am getting a little tired of posting this but here goes.
Quote from the Evelopedia article "What is the CSM"
"The Scope of the CSM
The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the GÇ£greatest good for the greater player baseGÇ¥. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis.
This document was originally created by P+¬tur J+¦hannes +ôskarsson on behalf of CCP.
It's official, the article is a little outdated regarding the length of tenure in the CSM but the rest still holds true. The role of the CSM is to represent the *WHOLE* of the player community, not as some might wish to perpetuate the interests of a minority.
That's why some people are organising a hisec campaign to ensure that hisec residents are represented in the next CSM.
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
81
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 09:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
Cidwm wrote: Also on a side note, would like to point out that if you look at the CSM roster for the CSM 6, 5 out of the 14 names, inlcuding the CSM chair all come the same coalition that i know of. certainly this can't be healthy for EVE for them to have such an influence on EVE from that respect as well!
Then maybe empire carebears should actually get out the vote the next time CSM elections come around?
Highseccers are always talking about how CCP should pander to their every whim because they supposedly represent 85% of the players (they don't, but anyway) but when CCP puts in a system that would enable their opinions and concerns to be directly represented to the development team, they all decide that spending 30 seconds on the eve-o website clicking on their favoured candidate is just too much effort and they'd much rather run another level 4 mission instead. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
592
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 09:04:00 -
[89] - Quote
Cedille Mureau wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:Who said that the CSM are supposed to represent everyone?
They are supposed to represent those that have voted in them. If goons are the most "organized" (heh) group in this game and can easelly set us up the CSM, then tough luck. I am getting a little tired of posting this but here goes. Quote from the Evelopedia article "What is the CSM" "The Scope of the CSM The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the GÇ£greatest good for the greater player baseGÇ¥. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis. This document was originally created by P+¬tur J+¦hannes +ôskarsson on behalf of CCP. It's official, the article is a little outdated regarding the length of tenure in the CSM but the rest still holds true. The role of the CSM is to represent the *WHOLE* of the player community, not as some might wish to perpetuate the interests of a minority. That's why some people are organising a hisec campaign to ensure that hisec residents are represented in the next CSM.
I don't see anything in there that says members of the CSM are constrained from acting in game in ways that someone doesn't like.
CSM members are just as entitled to scam, pirate, gank, invade, interdict and smack other players as any other player is. Do you have a specific complaint about the two Goonswarm CSMs with respect to their actions as CSM members?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
201
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Posted - 2011.10.15 10:15:00 -
[90] - Quote
Goons should do something better, like reset TEST [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
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Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
65
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 10:26:00 -
[91] - Quote
Oh boy. Another Goon Blob, Mr. Apostle. How they run to the bait. A CSM that doesn't represent "us" but "them." I've seen a picture of Mittens. . . I've seen a picture of Mittens. I think I'll leave that there.
One must consider even psychopaths can subscribe to EVE. That's where the model falls down and goes boom. Having a framework that requires some modicum of character in a character seems to at least prevent the psychologically challenged from seizing control of the show.
CCP, apparently, doesn't really care about little things like that. They're prouder of even smaller things like....this CSM.
This has run into the "as long as I get paid, who cares?" ditch. Any ascendency previously claimed has dissipated like smoke in the breeze. Ever wonder what Ho Chi Mihn meant by "paper tiger"?
To her it doesn't matter much.-á It's chasms have been leapt, and she leans upon the skepticism of her chosen fate. |
Avon
Versatech Co. Raiden.
77
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 10:29:00 -
[92] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote: If you don't like the Goons controlling the supply of oxygen, then take it from them.
Don't listen to this man, I am making a fortune out of this.
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Alice Saki
Ducklings
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 10:38:00 -
[93] - Quote
What real people Mine?!?! Not Bots?
Come on the goons kill the Market! xD My Null Roams.... Badger MKII :D They all-áHate my Stabby Badger... xD |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
248
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 11:15:00 -
[94] - Quote
My only problem with what they're doing is that, realistically, it wouldn't be allowed to happen. Concord would simply destroy any Goon ships detected in high sec or high sec gates would be programmed not to allow them entry.
I'm not saying that makes for interesting gameplay, only that it would happen that way. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
595
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 12:01:00 -
[95] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:My only problem with what they're doing is that, realistically, it wouldn't be allowed to happen. Concord would simply destroy any Goon ships detected in high sec or high sec gates would be programmed not to allow them entry.
I'm not saying that makes for interesting gameplay, only that it would happen that way.
Very few things about EVE mechanics are "realistic". Especially when people try to apply cultural assumptions that derive from a massively different society to the one the EVE lore describes. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
595
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 12:02:00 -
[96] - Quote
Headerman wrote:Goons should do something better, like reset TEST
I'm sure they'll do that right after you guys reset Solar Fleet and XiX. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
59
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 12:09:00 -
[97] - Quote
I'd have thought the goons activities would have made fishing very attractive to miners/high-sec players. I can see all sorts of fun you could have when you know there are random gankers about.
I probably assume too much |
Cedille Mureau
Institute of Archaeology
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 12:23:00 -
[98] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I don't see anything in there that says members of the CSM are constrained from acting in game in ways that someone doesn't like.
CSM members are just as entitled to scam, pirate, gank, invade, interdict and smack other players as any other player is. Do you have a specific complaint about the two Goonswarm CSMs with respect to their actions as CSM members?
I'm not sure if this is directed at me but to make myself perfectly clear, I was responding to the post by Renan Ruivo stating that the CSM is only obliged to listen to the people who voted for them. This, presumably means the goons and their allies. What I was trying to put over for the umteenth time is that according to the document setting up the CSM, the CSM is obligated to listen to all the players in EVE not just those who voted for them. To do otherwise would be to set up a group with increased influence and access to CCP without reference to the greater interests of the game.
As to your point about the conduct (in game) of members of the CSM, I have never advocated that they be treated differently from anyone else. If they want to go around making a nuisance of themselves, provided it is done within the rules then they must be allowed to do so, to do otherwise would be to put them at a disadvantage.
Hope this clears up what I meant in my original post. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
498
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 12:47:00 -
[99] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Question 1) Why does Empire need to be sent "into a panic" with "drought and pestilence everywhere"? It generates gameplay and content for the sandbox.
Quote:Question 2) As the CSM chair (with it's inherent Eve representation), you're OK that this potentially ruins the economic model for everyone? How does it ruin any kind of economic model? What does his role as CSM chair have to do with it?
Quote:Question 3) If the economic model is smashed by inflation, do you realize that CCP could simply become proactive on indy ganking and stop it all. Are you giving them cause? How does it cause inflation? What economic model does it smash? How? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
668
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 12:53:00 -
[100] - Quote
Othran wrote:I'd have thought the goons activities would have made fishing very attractive to miners/high-sec players. I can see all sorts of fun you could have when you know there are random gankers about. I probably assume too much someone from raiden. had a grand old time in a mack that didn't even have ice harvesters but had a ginormous tank, i think he got a bunch of people with that one including me
since it was early when most macks were untanked, people weren't bothering to scan and kept crashing into him |
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 13:01:00 -
[101] - Quote
Fuujin wrote:Avid Bumhumper wrote:
It only costs 500 mil a month if your dumb enough not to stockpile....
You know if you mine the oxygen isotopes, they're free!
Can I mine some deep in null close to your bots?
Nah was joking, rather like to bubble your systems gates or stations undocks, and sometimes your JB's |
Guy Grand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 13:04:00 -
[102] - Quote
As a quick aside: anyone who believes an elected official represents their own personal interests is the very worst kind of fool. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
80
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 14:56:00 -
[103] - Quote
A Lunchbox wrote:This is almost as funny as when Goons joined AOC and farmed level 20s in Khopshef province with level 80 chars for like 4 months. Freaking hillarious.
P.S. they got rolled out of the game by a giant NAP fest of carebear guilds burning their guild city to the ground. Just saying, carebears.
I remember that. I was there farming Goons with my Ranger because they all sucked at PvP. Easy kills for me. Draculina Alucardi...3rd account canceled, no reason to hold an account for a SC pilot, if you can only use it in PVP ... thanks CCP :)-á Support the cause! Linky |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
105
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 15:54:00 -
[104] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Taedrin wrote:Switch to Amarr towers then? You can still run reactions on those, and they still get a 50% bonus to silo capacity. pretty sure you can't because of their hideously low CPU but I could be wrong
You can just barely run a 4 input complex reaction (ferrogel) on an Amarr tower. You won't have any CPU left what-so-ever, however. But Amarr towers have enormous amounts of PG, so you'll be able to anchor craptons of guns.
If you do a 3 input reaction, then you still have enough CPU for several ewar mods. |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 16:28:00 -
[105] - Quote
The Apostle wrote: Question 1) Why does Empire need to be sent "into a panic" with "drought and pestilence everywhere"?
Fun and profit.
The Apostle wrote: Question 2) As the CSM chair (with it's inherent Eve representation), you're OK that this potentially ruins the economic model for everyone?
Not everyone just some ppl.
The Apostle wrote: Question 3) If the economic model is smashed by inflation, do you realize that CCP could simply become proactive on indy ganking and stop it all. Are you giving them cause?
Didint they tell recently that they want more drought and pestilence in eve?
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Luckytania
Bullets of Justice Damned Nation
20
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:09:00 -
[106] - Quote
Trainwreck McGee wrote:To me Goons bring out the beauty in the sandbox.
And no i'm not sucking up to them they can royally go **** themselves. Just think of them as Sanshas. Just not as predictable and easy to profit from as Incursions.
Personally, RL me, I have no problem with this chaos they're causing. (If they actually succeed in causing it.)
As an in character me, perhaps we need some sort of bio-weapon which is only fatal to Goons and is contagious even through a clone instantiation? |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 01:37:00 -
[107] - Quote
Luckytania wrote:As an in character me, perhaps we need some sort of bio-weapon which is only fatal to Goons and is contagious even through a clone instantiation?
Soap |
Kengutsi Akira
34
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 04:34:00 -
[108] - Quote
Mehrdad Kor-Azor wrote:I can answer these, I think:
1) Goons set out to destroy any MMO they enter.
2) See #1.
3) See #1.
this. If EVE folded tomorrow and CCP went into full production on WoD instead, theyd be there, destroying the game. Hell, they were in Star Trek Online for a while, as Starfleet Dental, trying to destroy that game. They took a game thats entirely PVE (except for BG-like PVP) and turned it into open world PVP for a while. It was pretty funny. All I can say is; If CCP is stupid enough to let the Goons destroy the game, then they deserve what they get.
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Kengutsi Akira
34
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 04:41:00 -
[109] - Quote
Lamya Fox wrote:You people need to diffrentiate between Mittens the CSM and Mittens the leader of the Goons.
They are not One in the same. Think of it as a man with two hats on. When dealing with the CSM he would be representing the EVE community. But when he is playing EVE he is playing EVE as the leader of his corp/alliance.
uh actually no, he's developing the game for the benefit of the Goons etc. If we listen to the CSM, all the changes to the game are brought on by them and are their ideas (as by the self-patting on the back by the CSMs in the thread about the winter patches). Now, if thats accurate, then the ABC ores being removed from low level wormholes idea, the remove ice from high sec idea, the T2 production only in 0.0 idea, all those ideas in that thread are all CSM ideas, that are negatively affecting the people the Goons care the least about unless theyre in their gun sights; the ppl in high sec AKA the "pubbies"
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Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 05:03:00 -
[110] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Luckytania wrote:As an in character me, perhaps we need some sort of bio-weapon which is only fatal to Goons and is contagious even through a clone instantiation? Soap
he knows |
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
50
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 06:58:00 -
[111] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Luckytania wrote:As an in character me, perhaps we need some sort of bio-weapon which is only fatal to Goons and is contagious even through a clone instantiation? Soap
Real world economic collapse will work better.
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