Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Destiny Foundation
445
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 20:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Violence begets violence.
Your just cause does not matter when you use force. If a husband attacks the man who was sleeping with his wife, that man is going to respond in kind.
Your just cause is still just, however, but the moment you use force is the moment you forfeit the opportunity for the opposing side to recognize your righteousness.
Violence begets violence. This is how many Gallenteans felt back in 110, and war has raged for five years. Now, it will be waged for another five. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
118
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 20:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
The conflict goes back further than 110. |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Destiny Foundation
445
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 20:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
As an addendum, I felt the same in 110 as many Caldari pilots now feel. I, however, have seen things from a wider angle since then. |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Destiny Foundation
445
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 20:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:The conflict goes back further than 110.
Like I said. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2267
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 20:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
There's been enough violence.
That's why we need to stop. The Titan's gone. Luminaire is ours - all of it. It's not under Provist threat anymore. We can end this all, right now. We can evacuate every last civilian who no longer wants to live on Caldari Prime. We can give the Caldari their planet back. We can prove every Provist in this cluster wrong. We can prove the Gallente Federation is the paragon of morality it always wanted to be.
We can have peace.
It could be so simple. Mane 614
|
Markus Reese
Incertae Sedis
328
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 20:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gallente, you have allowed history to repeat.
Look what we did with one ship and man as martyr.
Now there is a fleet and a whole planet of martyrs.
|
BloodBird
Mixed Metaphor
93
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 20:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:There's been enough violence.
That's why we need to stop. The Titan's gone. Luminaire is ours - all of it. It's not under Provist threat anymore. We can end this all, right now. We can evacuate every last civilian who no longer wants to live on Caldari Prime. We can give the Caldari their planet back. We can prove every Provist in this cluster wrong. We can prove the Gallente Federation is the paragon of morality it always wanted to be.
We can have peace.
It could be so simple.
It is never that simple, Andreus. You know this as well as the rest of us do. It might be considered a weakness with our system, that we can't just abandon members of our Union, but this here is truth:
When the Caldari nation-states on Caldari Prime signed the charter and joined with the rest of us, indeed when they helped FOUND this union, they were accepted as members of a pact, a covenant.
This covenant stated among other things that members were part of the whole. They would never be abandoned except in extreme situations. We did not abandon Seyllin, we did not abandon Placid when it came under attack, and we did not abandon Caldari Prime.
If there is to be peace and the Caldari State is to have their origin-world for themselves, they must come to an agreement with the States residing on the planet they desire to own. Or those States has to secede from the Union before-hand. Then they can be conquered or assimilated by anyone strong enough and our nation would not be obliged to help them.
But as long as they are members, as long as they want to remain with this union, as long as the State want the planet they reside on, and as long as they say no, we are bound to help them. We can not forsake them, unless we want to forsake our very existence.
If we could just casually throw anyone of our members to the wolves when it became prudent to do so, we would soon fall apart. The situation is so much more complicated than most people realize.
And that's why this war will not end anytime soon. That is why so many will die.
We all have our integrity and our honor. And they create opposing goals.
|
Lialus Raithe
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 20:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
I am unsure if this topic is a wise one at this time. Many are still reeling from the events of the day on both sides.
Empathy is noble when it is sincere and voluntary. Coerced empathy is a cheap shot.
|
Gosakumori Noh
Viziam Amarr Empire
158
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 21:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
None of this would be happening if the Jove had simply used their superior technology to remain hidden. No "good" deed goes unpunished. |
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Kaltiovon
344
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 21:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
and so it continues. Nothing is learned, nothing is resolved, and we repeat the same ******* bull **** that we have for two hundred years. Maybe we deserve to drag each other down into oblivion.. The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word.
- The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21 |
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
581
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 21:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
It is not noble, but today I was a vessel for the hatred of a people.
When I return to the State - what do you think they are going to demand of me, once I've atoned for my part in today's loss? |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2272
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 21:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:When I return to the State - what do you think they are going to demand of me, once I've atoned for my part in today's loss? Nothing, if they have any decency.
You fought as hard as you could for what you believed in, and what your nation demanded of you. Few could ask for more than that, and none should. Your nobility is not in question. Mane 614
|
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
60
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 21:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
If only Gariushi had lived and this useless excuse for a dictator had died instead.
Those of you who fought for this madman gaze back at our home and look. Look at the pride and ego made manifest scaring our home. It's very presence tainting the air with ash and dust. That is what this man has brought the Caldari people. Ashes and dust. If he had any honor left he would fall on his sword. Since he almost certainly won't it is up to you. Bring him a cup of tea and let us move on. Without him. |
Lialus Raithe
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
125
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 22:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:It is not noble, but today I was a vessel for the hatred of a people.
When I return to the State - what do you think they are going to demand of me, once I've atoned for my part in today's loss?
I could not say it any better than Monsieur Ixiris, in truth.
I do not think anyone could ask more of you. |
Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 22:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Did you Caldari loyalists really feel that the Federation could continue to live with a gun to its head indefinitely? That titan represented a hostile foreign military force in the same system as Gallente Prime. One that could be turned against us at any time for any reason or, no reason or, merely the whim of one madman.
You've just reaped what you sewed today.
I sincerely hope that now, without that Leviathan in orbit, we can sit down and attempt to negotiate a lasting and honorable peace between our governments. Part of that settlement has got to involve returning Caldari Prime to the State.I firmly believe that as long as Caldari Prime is not part of the State and recognized as such that this war will drag out and millions will die. We need to end this cycle of violence here and now. |
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Kaltiovon
346
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 22:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:
You've just reaped what you sewed today.
It appears our collective races do alot of that. Time to stop planting the seeds. The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word.
- The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21 |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
175
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 22:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:Did you Caldari loyalists really feel that the Federation could continue to live with a gun to its head indefinitely? That titan represented a hostile foreign military force in the same system as Gallente Prime. One that could be turned against us at any time for any reason or, no reason or, merely the whim of one madman.
You've just reaped what you sewed today.
I sincerely hope that now, without that Leviathan in orbit, we can sit down and attempt to negotiate a lasting and honorable peace between our governments. Part of that settlement has got to involve returning Caldari Prime to the State.I firmly believe that as long as Caldari Prime is not part of the State and recognized as such that this war will drag out and millions will die. We need to end this cycle of violence here and now. Our two peoples are surely two seeds from the same bad tree. Luminaire gave birth to the twins Death and Destruction, locked in a seemingly unending spiral of vengeance.
I can agree the titan should not have been there, but it's presence as a bastion against the Gallente shouldn't have been necessary either I only wish we could have removed Heth from power before this came to pass so that our side could come to the diplomatic table.
Now I wish the Federation would back down and come to the table themselves.
We need a neutral Luminaire for both sides, not an endless cycle of trying to steal planets back from each other. Caldari prime for the Caldari Gallente Prime for the Gallente and a system for peace. |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 23:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:There's been enough violence.
That's why we need to stop. The Titan's gone. Luminaire is ours - all of it. It's not under Provist threat anymore. We can end this all, right now. We can evacuate every last civilian who no longer wants to live on Caldari Prime. We can give the Caldari their planet back. We can prove every Provist in this cluster wrong. We can prove the Gallente Federation is the paragon of morality it always wanted to be.
We can have peace.
It could be so simple.
Perhaps you should have attempted peace before attacking that Titan?
Amarr Victor, Deus Vult
+¦+à+¦ +º+ä+à+å+¬+¦+¦+î +Ñ+¦+º +¦+º+í +º+ä+ä+ç |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 23:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Simon Louvaki wrote:Nick Bete wrote:
You've just reaped what you sewed today.
It appears our collective races do alot of that. Time to stop planting the seeds.
I watched the Gallente plant a bunch of them today. Quite the crop they have there.
Amarr Victor, Deus Vult
+¦+à+¦ +º+ä+à+å+¬+¦+¦+î +Ñ+¦+º +¦+º+í +º+ä+ä+ç |
Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
188
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 00:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:
We need a neutral Luminaire for both sides, not an endless cycle of trying to steal planets back from each other. Caldari prime for the Caldari Gallente Prime for the Gallente and a system for peace.
Well said. |
|
Markus Reese
Incertae Sedis
328
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 00:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote:
We need a neutral Luminaire for both sides, not an endless cycle of trying to steal planets back from each other. Caldari prime for the Caldari Gallente Prime for the Gallente and a system for peace.
Well said.
Agreed on this. Both sides should petition for a unity. Caldari Prime needs assistance as both Gallente and Caldari citizens are in dire need of help. I recommend that Duvolle Laboratories around planet Astrin.
Reason is that it is the only station in system that isn't around a home planet, as well as it is the location that we were evacuating refugees and the injured. |
Lialus Raithe
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 00:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Adel Khamez wrote:Perhaps you should have attempted peace before attacking that Titan?
You have repeatedly demonstrated a very selective understanding of history.
On topic: I would prefer to see blood ceasing to be spilled on either side of this conflict, as distant as that vision seems now. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2283
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 00:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Adel Khamez wrote:Perhaps you should have attempted peace before attacking that Titan? No.
You don't get to tell a nation that had a gun pointed in its face that it's wrong for not having negotiated peace first after it knocks the gun out of its assailant's face. Mane 614
|
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
181
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 01:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote:
We need a neutral Luminaire for both sides, not an endless cycle of trying to steal planets back from each other. Caldari prime for the Caldari Gallente Prime for the Gallente and a system for peace.
Well said. Agreed on this. Both sides should petition for a unity. Caldari Prime needs assistance as both Gallente and Caldari citizens are in dire need of help. I recommend that Duvolle Laboratories around planet Astrin. Reason is that it is the only station in system that isn't around a home planet, as well as it is the location that we were evacuating refugees and the injured. For some unfathomable reason (why would your naval facilities and customs offices be over another planet rather than your capitol?), every station besides that one is positioned over Caldari prime.
If the intention is to support the civilians planetside, why not base operations out of the logistics facility that's right there?
If neutral ground is needed, perhaps building a new neutral station would be better. I can;t see a scientific base would be any more appropriate than a naval or governmental base for that. Perhaps even building new facilities for the Federation Navy over Gallente Prime and turning over some of the stations over Caldari prime to Caldari or neutral parties would be warranted. |
Markus Reese
Incertae Sedis
331
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 02:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
I myself am Caldari. I however can understand why gallente stations are at Caldari Prime. First the extravagant luxury lifestyle of the Gallente can sometimes be narrow visioned. When leaving planets and looking up at the stars, they probably do not want the giant stations in their skies. Place them around Caldari as a symbol of power. Secondly, It takes resources to run stations. Why mar Gallente Prime's surface when the extreme environment of Caldari prime is available for harvest.
The lab would only be a short term solution. Recommended because that is where Sisters of Eve have set up in response. Being removed from both Caldari Prime and Gallente Prime will remove some tension. Ideally, the Sisters of Eve would set up a station there, but it would take years to construct. In which case, I believe Gicodel would make an excellent choice. Close to Luminaire |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 04:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Adel Khamez wrote:Perhaps you should have attempted peace before attacking that Titan? No. You don't get to tell a nation that had a gun pointed in its face that it's wrong for not having negotiated peace first after it knocks the gun out of its assailant's face.
The Fed Navy forced half the population of Caldari Prime to leave by the simple expedient of carpet bombing them, and then you call re-taking the home world a "gun to the face". Until you are willing to admit that the Gallente Federation committed an atrocity that day, and have no right to that planet, then I don't think we are ever going to agree on anything.
If the Gallente Federation's leaders did not desire war, well ... they have bought an express ticket to War-ville.
We shall all see how this works out in the coming months. Amarr Victor, Deus Vult
+¦+à+¦ +º+ä+à+å+¬+¦+¦+î +Ñ+¦+º +¦+º+í +º+ä+ä+ç |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
822
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 05:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
The Caldari Navy showed how incompetent they were today. Even bringing that big shot admiral didn't do them any good.
If anything this is a good indication of how future battles will play out. SP-DR is recruiting: http://spdr.enjin.com Amarr Empire in a nut shell: http://i48.tinypic.com/2luayva.jpg |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
588
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 07:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mekhana wrote:The Caldari Navy showed how incompetent they were today. Even bringing that big shot admiral didn't do them any good.
If anything this is a good indication of how future battles will play out.
Don't be a fool, do you know nothing of logistics? The Leviathan was a political weapon, not a military one - you seem to be the only person labouring under the misapprehension that the Caldari Navy can project force into the Federation Navy's backyard as well as they can.
|
Vikarion
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
366
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 08:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
No, I never sympathize with the Gallente. They get plenty of help already from CONCORD and those friendly folks who fly those Polaris frigates around...can't quite remember their names. |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
822
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 09:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Mekhana wrote:The Caldari Navy showed how incompetent they were today. Even bringing that big shot admiral didn't do them any good.
If anything this is a good indication of how future battles will play out. Don't be a fool, do you know nothing of logistics? The Leviathan was a political weapon, not a military one - you seem to be the only person labouring under the misapprehension that the Caldari Navy can project force into the Federation Navy's backyard as well as they can.
Then do you agree they shouldn't have tested us? Do you remember why the Federation Navy fleet was brought into the field? Or do you conveniently ignore and forget things at will?
Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas!-á |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |