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Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
164
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Posted - 2013.03.23 18:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have some words of advice for my fellow Caldari, and for the State itself after yesterday's events - let Caldari Prime go.
Focusing so much on the homeworld has left you all blind to what that obsession has done to the Caldari people at large. The military and economy of the State is weakening, and what's worse nationalism and xenophobia seem to run rampant within society. Instead of the heads of the Megas competing with each other, driving innovation, progress, and diversity, you've allowed the bulk of Caldari population within the cluster to be placed under the boot of an incompetent dictator.
Let it go. It's simply not worth the effort and sacrifices that are being made on its behalf.
Even if the State was somehow able to hold onto the planet, its full of Federal citizens who do not want to be under State authority, who will rise up. With the destruction of the Shiigeru and its escorts, there's nothing in orbit to stop the Federal Navy from acting with impunity.
It's over.
Now, let go of this obsession, and accept that Caldari Prime will be returned to the fold of the Federation. Depose this pompous ass of a dictator, and get back to work repairing the damage that the State has suffered since then. Every time the Gallente and Caldari clash, it's only making others in the cluster stronger.
Specifially, a certain empire that enslaves individuals and brainwashes them into their religious ideology. |
Fredfredbug4
The Scope Gallente Federation
592
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Posted - 2013.03.23 18:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Caldari Prime belongs to the Caldari. The only reason why Federal citizens were upset was that the Provist occupation was very oppressive. For example, those that wanted to leave the planet were not allowed to.
It's the leadership of both the State and the Federation that are at fault. I accidentally my assets, is this bad?-á |
Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
165
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Posted - 2013.03.23 18:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:It's the leadership of both the State and the Federation that are at fault. No doubt, both sides are too focused on each other to pay attention to the larger, common threats. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
126
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Posted - 2013.03.23 18:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sakura Nihil wrote:Every time the Gallente and Caldari clash, it's only making others in the cluster stronger.
Specifially, a certain empire that enslaves individuals and brainwashes them into their religious ideology.
Our two empires are allies. The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State. I don't see why you think it acceptable to speak poorly of your allies; I thought the Caldari were more respectful than that.
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Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
822
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Posted - 2013.03.23 18:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Regardless of my affiliation and political beliefs I believe Ms. Sakura speaks with such wisdom that makes me wish the average State loyalist possessed a fraction of the vision she displayed here.
The Amarr Empire is truly a greater threat to the Federation than the Caldari State could ever be. I believe the same applies to the Caldari state. Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas!-á |
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Kaltiovon
366
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Posted - 2013.03.23 18:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote: Our two empires are allies. The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State. I don't see why you think it acceptable to speak poorly of your allies; I thought the Caldari were more respectful than that.
One capsuleer's opinion doesn't speak for the entirety of our race, Ms. Kernher. The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word.
- The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21 |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2295
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Posted - 2013.03.23 19:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State. Both of these are true only as long as the State remains in direct competition with the Gallente. Mane 614
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Iwan Terpalen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.03.23 19:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
I will agree, to some extent. Yesterday was a day for grief and rage. Today is for picking up the pieces, and having a good, hard, sane bit of thinking on how to go on from here on out. The past is a sunk cost. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
126
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Posted - 2013.03.23 19:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State. Both of these are true only as long as the State remains in direct competition with the Gallente.
No. The State and the Empire are close in other areas. State-Kingdom relations are very high. The State is the Empire's primary trading partner for our minerals. The Empire invested in the State, and the State in return offered schooling for those of us emancipated five years ago.
There is more than just military ties between us, and we are both stronger together than separate. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
371
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Posted - 2013.03.23 19:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sakura Nihil wrote: Let it go. It's simply not worth the effort and sacrifices that are being made on its behalf.
Even if the State was somehow able to hold onto the planet, its full of Federal citizens who do not want to be under State authority, who will rise up. With the destruction of the Shiigeru and its escorts, there's nothing in orbit to stop the Federal Navy from acting with impunity.
If we allow Gallente to have it, then all peoples on CN Shiigeru and many other ships, including those, that were commanded by me, died for nothing. We must continue the fight in memory of those, who were fighting among us, and to make future for those, who will live after us. |
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2295
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Posted - 2013.03.23 19:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:No. The State and the Empire are close in other areas. State-Kingdom relations are very high. The State is the Empire's primary trading partner for our minerals. The Empire invested in the State, and the State in return offered schooling for those of us emancipated five years ago. There is also our joint research projects. You do realise that this situation persists almost entirely because the Empire provides a counterbalance to the Federation, right? The State has almost nothing in common with the Empire - honestly, it has a lot more in common with the Minmatar Republic than anyone else.
Like I said - to understand the Caldari-Amarr alliance, you need to grasp the balance of power in this cluster. The alliance exists out of pragmatism, not friendship. Mane 614
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Vikarion
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
380
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Posted - 2013.03.23 19:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Sakura Nihil wrote:Every time the Gallente and Caldari clash, it's only making others in the cluster stronger.
Specifially, a certain empire that enslaves individuals and brainwashes them into their religious ideology. Our two empires are allies. The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State. I don't see why you think it acceptable to speak poorly of your allies; I thought the Caldari were more respectful than that.
Miss Nihil isn't Caldari. She's a member of an anarchist organization, one of whose stated goals is the destruction of the State as an entity, and necessarily, Caldari culture along with it. Taking her advice about what the State should do is only slightly better than taking the advice of EOM. |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
28
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Posted - 2013.03.23 19:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sakura Nihil wrote:I have some words of advice for my fellow Caldari, and for the State itself after yesterday's events - let Caldari Prime go.
You first, Gallente supporter.
Just let Caldari Prime go. Remove the Gallente troops, and get the Federation Navy away from the planet.
Amarr Victor, Deus Vult
+¦+à+¦ +º+ä+à+å+¬+¦+¦+î +Ñ+¦+º +¦+º+í +º+ä+ä+ç |
Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
166
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Posted - 2013.03.23 21:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Sakura Nihil wrote:Every time the Gallente and Caldari clash, it's only making others in the cluster stronger.
Specifially, a certain empire that enslaves individuals and brainwashes them into their religious ideology. Our two empires are allies. The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State. I don't see why you think it acceptable to speak poorly of your allies; I thought the Caldari were more respectful than that. Nominal allies. Who, if it wasn't for the Federation, would be at each other's throats due to galactic politics and strategy. I may be Civire, but I certainly don't support the State, much less their brainwashed, slaver allies of convenience.
Diana Kim wrote: If we allow Gallente to have it, then all peoples on CN Shiigeru and many other ships, including those, that were commanded by me, died for nothing. We must continue the fight in memory of those, who were fighting among us, and to make future for those, who will live after us.
News flash - they have died for nothing. The moment Heth and the State took Caldari Prime, yesterday's events were practically guaranteed to happen. The Federation could not have a hostile fleet present in one of its most important systems, much less one with a superweapon. The moment they saw an opportunity to remove their home of this threat, they took it. For that, I actually applaud them and their thinking, the Federation I grew up knowing would have been scared to take such a decisive action like the one we saw yesterday.
If you truly want to honor the memory of the people lost yesterday, stop attacking the Gallente. The only way this issue will be settled for all time is for the Luminaire system in its entirety to be under a single flag, and the only way to do this with military force is to have one empire completely defeat the other. The chances of this happening are about as good as Heth deciding to go pick fruit for the rest of his life. So, each action, each fight, each war will only generate more martyrs that will block the road to peace for generations.
Vikarion wrote:Miss Nihil isn't Caldari. She's a member of an anarchist organization, one of whose stated goals is the destruction of the State as an entity, and necessarily, Caldari culture along with it. Taking her advice about what the State should do is only slightly better than taking the advice of EOM. The last person to deride me this way was Admiral Yanala, and last I checked, she was a waste of biomass on the surface of Caldari Prime. I suggest you re-examine what you're really fighting for, because the State and Heth's puppets are leading our civilization to a dark, dark place. |
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
715
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Posted - 2013.03.23 21:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Your words would carry more weight, Ms. Nihil, if you lived with your people, or expressed an iota of support for them. To date I have seen nothing but derision from you towards the Caldari.
How many of us must turn our backs to you before you realize this? |
Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
170
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Posted - 2013.03.23 22:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:Your words would carry more weight, Ms. Nihil, if you lived with your people, or expressed an iota of support for them. To date I have seen nothing but derision from you towards the Caldari.
How many of us must turn our backs to you before you realize this? I don't expect any of you to have a miraculous change of heart and come around to my position. I'm a pirate, a killer of thousands, and someone who has not lived in the State. It makes perfect sense that you'd support others who you've worked with rather than me.
I'm merely offering an outside opinion, one relatively free of bias. You all are losing. Your attempt to obtain and hold onto CP was short-lived, and your chances to re-take it in the long run get worse every passing day. Yet, you all are so obsessed with the planet that you are willing to drag the entire State and its population down to reclaim it.
It is stupidity. The sooner you realize this, the better. Preferably before the Caldari population pays the price for your lack of vision. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
213
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Posted - 2013.03.23 22:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote: Our two empires are allies. The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State. I don't see why you think it acceptable to speak poorly of your allies; I thought the Caldari were more respectful than that.
Pacts of non-aggression were signed with the Emperor Heideran at a time when the Caldari State had just exited from a century of conflict with the Federation. Whilst what was initially an agreement to contain a potentially hostile and adversarial Federation at the time has grown into one of mutual advantage and understanding it does not change the fact that no political arrangement made will remain as such if it does not continue to provide tangible benefits to the State. To think otherwise would be folly, just as it would be in believing that the Empire does not have its own agendas or interests it may wish to pursue inimical to that of the State's own.
A lesson perhaps learned by the Federation if at all. |
Gosakumori Noh
Viziam Amarr Empire
162
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Posted - 2013.03.23 22:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
The defenders of Caldari Prime have not died in vain. They fought for a home imprisoned by the embrace of their enemy, and remained true to their convictions. They will be remembered far longer than anyone who ran away, and memories do not require clone transfers for "immortality."
However, on a higher level, I do agree that it was imprudent of Executor Heth to try and hold the planet, if holding it was indeed his objective. I would not have recommended that particular time for an invasion, myself; and far from surprising, the outcome of this battle must realistically be considered expected. Indeed, I imagine many null security alliances would welcome an "invading" titan being left in their home system, alone....
I also agree that the current situation strengthens the hand of the Empire by draining the Federation. I, of course, consider that a Good Thing.
However, I am not convinced that the Empire will remain above difficulties. Misery spreads before it recedes. I'm not particularly worried about the savages, though I suppose they might pull another super fleet out of their collective posterior. Rather, my fear is that there are troubles brewing within. I might not be able to flatter Tiberious into prematurely shooting the wad, but little ravens have been whispering to me about zombies in the cloister for some time, now. While it might all be Amarr Paradigm, I would still prefer my particular branch of the Paradigm prevail. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
598
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Posted - 2013.03.23 23:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Miss Nihil's logic is impeccable. It was not a sensible act to even try to take a planet in the heart of enemy space, let alone to hold it. But some things transcend logic and the pull of Home for the Caldari people is one of those things. Yesterday's defeat - let's not mince words, we were defeated - has been a body blow to the average citizen of the State.
Whilst some Empyreans choose lives apart from ordinary people, those who serve a faction, those of us known as Loyalists, do well to never forget that we are merely the tip of the spear. Our money is provided by Baseliners. Our crews are hired from amongst them. Senior Executives and leaders generate the orders we follow and our social mores are generated from below. Those of you who have walked the concourses of our Orbitals since then have no doubt polled the mood of the baseliners, the base of the State's pyramid of power.
They are shocked. They are frightened. They are grieving. But most of all they are ANGRY. That anger is currently directed to many places - to the Caldari Navy who failed to stop the Federation aggression. To the leaders who put them in such an impossible situation. To the Executor who claimed the world through a magnificent coup but then allowed a chance for a final diplomatic solution to trickle through his fingers. To the Federation whose enduring jealousy and spite has made peaceful coexistence under any terms but their own impossible.
They are also angry at US. At the magic men and women who have recieved Jove's gift and who they expect to achieve the impossible. In the coming days I expect the shock and grief to fade - but I do not expect my people to stop looking at me without an expression that demands I be part of a solution. I hope the rest of you also strive to join me.
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Derek Quaid
Discreet Bounties
148
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Posted - 2013.03.23 23:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pursuing a futile goal on the basis of justifying sunk costs is bad economics and, therefore, bad policy. The planet has little more than sentimental value, and the resources squandered in pursuing it have a very high opportunity cost indeed. CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties |
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Vikarion
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
385
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Posted - 2013.03.24 00:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sakura Nihil wrote:Vikarion wrote:Miss Nihil isn't Caldari. She's a member of an anarchist organization, one of whose stated goals is the destruction of the State as an entity, and necessarily, Caldari culture along with it. Taking her advice about what the State should do is only slightly better than taking the advice of EOM. The last person to deride me this way was Admiral Yanala, and last I checked, she was a waste of biomass on the surface of Caldari Prime. I suggest you re-examine what you're really fighting for, because the State and Heth's puppets are leading our civilization to a dark, dark place.
Wow. You really have no clue. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
373
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Posted - 2013.03.24 00:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sakura Nihil wrote: If you truly want to honor the memory of the people lost yesterday, stop attacking the Gallente.
I will... as soon as there will be no more Gallente.
Sakura Nihil wrote: The only way this issue will be settled for all time is for the Luminaire system in its entirety to be under a single flag, and the only way to do this with military force is to have one empire completely defeat the other. The chances of this happening are about as good as Heth deciding to go pick fruit for the rest of his life. So, each action, each fight, each war will only generate more martyrs that will block the road to peace for generations.
And that's why we need to launch full scale attack on all major Gallente homeworld. Just like they did on ours. We will plant Provist flags on Villore, Gallente Prime and any other remaining administrative centers, who supported this murderous government. Also all gallentean government workers should be put under trial and executed. And then there will be peace. And no one ever touch our planet again. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1356
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Posted - 2013.03.24 00:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
I've always pictured you with the most annoying and nasally 12 year old voice due to your looks and rhetoric.
Is that what you really sound like?
If so, all your party lines are just making me laugh harder.
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Tiber Brucato
The Voidstalker Heresy
3
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Posted - 2013.03.24 00:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Going to say the same thing I said elsewhere.
So long as the State insists on being a threat to Federal security there will be no permanent peace for Caldari Prime. A faction doesn't allow a hostile force an enclave within its own borders. Fate has seen fit to lock the Gallente and Caldari people together by virtue of proximity. To try and deny their connection to each other is madness. Peace will be achieved once the rightful order has been restored - once the Caldari and Gallente people begin working together again. Some people say that reintegration of the State into the Federation is the answer - I don't think that will work. Both empires will have to come to peaceful terms with each other and learn to share. Share space, share famine and plenty, and share the common destiny the children of Luminaire have in store. |
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Kaltiovon
374
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Posted - 2013.03.24 00:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tiber Brucato wrote:
So long as the State insists on being a threat to Federal security....
This was a bad approach when you posted it previously in another thread and its a bad approach now. The State doesn't insist on being a threat to Federal security, it insists on having its world of origin and protecting it. The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word.
- The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21 |
Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
170
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Posted - 2013.03.24 01:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:(Good Points) I'd agree with most of this, except the part about the Fed's jealousy. However, I'll settle for a "good" post and not nitpick.
Vikarion wrote:Sakura Nihil wrote:Vikarion wrote:Miss Nihil isn't Caldari. She's a member of an anarchist organization, one of whose stated goals is the destruction of the State as an entity, and necessarily, Caldari culture along with it. Taking her advice about what the State should do is only slightly better than taking the advice of EOM. The last person to deride me this way was Admiral Yanala, and last I checked, she was a waste of biomass on the surface of Caldari Prime. I suggest you re-examine what you're really fighting for, because the State and Heth's puppets are leading our civilization to a dark, dark place. Wow. You really have no clue. And your comeback lacks bite.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
373
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Posted - 2013.03.24 01:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tiber Brucato wrote:Going to say the same thing I said elsewhere.
So long as the State insists on being a threat to Federal security there will be no permanent peace for Caldari Prime. A faction doesn't allow a hostile force an enclave within its own borders. Then we should move these borders deep into Federation territory to secure our planet (as alternative of completely decapitating them).
Tiber Brucato wrote: Fate has seen fit to lock the Gallente and Caldari people together by virtue of proximity. To try and deny their connection to each other is madness. Peace will be achieved once the rightful order has been restored - once the Caldari and Gallente people begin working together again. Some people say that reintegration of the State into the Federation is the answer - I don't think that will work. Both empires will have to come to peaceful terms with each other and learn to share. Share space, share famine and plenty, and share the common destiny the children of Luminaire have in store. This alliance was the greatest mistake our peoples made. At least, in the form it was established. It might be possible to integrate Federation into the State as a separate corporation, where they can do whatever they want and do not spread their poison about liberty to other megacorps. Of course, first, those responsible for bringing gallente capitals onto Caldari Prime, together with those, who hired mercenaries to attack the planet, must be put under tribunal for crimes against humanity during war time. |
Tiber Brucato
The Voidstalker Heresy
3
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Posted - 2013.03.24 01:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
The State is a hostile astropolitical entity aligned with another hostile astropolitical entity. As such it is a threat to Federal security by its very nature at present. It's all well and good to say "honest, we won't attack you , but words do not a bulwark make. This is one of the root problems to this conflict. Neither side will put themselves in the shoes of the other. It is, in my opinion, completely reasonable for Caldari Prime to be a Caldari posession. It is equally reasonable for the Federation to expect and enforce a secure border to their territory. |
Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
121
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Posted - 2013.03.24 01:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:
And that's why we need to launch full scale attack on all major Gallente homeworld. Just like they did on ours. We will plant Provist flags on Villore, Gallente Prime and any other remaining administrative centers, who supported this murderous government. Also all gallentean government workers should be put under trial and executed. And then there will be peace. And no one ever touch our planet again.
As it stands you lot can't even mount a credible attempt at taking Nennamaila, much less assault the Federation Core Worlds. Not that reality is of much importance in the galaxy you're living in.
Do carry on with your crazy, though. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
214
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Posted - 2013.03.24 03:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote: As it stands you lot can't even mount a credible attempt at taking Nennamaila, much less assault the Federation Core Worlds. Not that reality is of much importance in the galaxy you're living in.
Do carry on with your crazy, though.
I certainly would feel no need to take Nennamaila at present - where would I be able to score cheap and easy kills against those that live there otherwise? |
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