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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Quintessen
Jalepeno Self Sabatoge
51
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Posted - 2013.03.23 23:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:I just want to say to CCP, please do not simplify or dumb down the scanning system in anyway.
That is my only concern. Apart from that interested to see what they mean by allowing us to explore new frontiers which we have never seen before. Hopefully null sec exploration will become a bit more profitable.
As long as it's not press button, get cookie I have trouble thinking of how it could be easier. Anyways, I'll wait till I see the proposal before I get upset or anything.
That said, I wouldn't mind if exploration became a part of all ships with certain ships being better at it since a lot of the stuff I'm finding with exploration I'm not going to do with a dedicated exploration ship. So if I'm wondering around looking for stuff and I come across a DED complex and my ship is 10 jumps away I'll probably just skip it and move on. There's definitely room for improvement here. |
Quintessen
Jalepeno Self Sabatoge
51
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Posted - 2013.03.24 05:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Frankly I wouldn't mind if sites would tell you their group right away so I didn't have to waste time on sites I didn't care about. Is this game supposed to be grindy in that way? |
Quintessen
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52
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Posted - 2013.03.25 13:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sylvia Nardieu wrote:Meh, editor lost my complete post and left me with initial quote I used Let's try again: Anyone thinking that scanning is only about high skills and nothing to do with personal skill/knowledge obviously never had to scan down a boosting eccm'd T3. Right now some aspects of scanning are tedious and repetitive and should be worked on. Should aspects of scanning be made automatic? Answer is - absolutely no. Too lazy to hit d-scan every now and then - you deserve to be caught. Cant be bothered re-positioning probes - you don't deserve awards exploration can provide. Simple as that.
How do you reconcile that they shouldn't be automatic, but that they shouldn't be tedious and repetitive? EVE isn't a twitch game. It's a game of preparation and strategy. And, hopefully, different enough strategies that you can't just look one up and implement it perfectly.
E.g. a way to make the scanner strategic and automatic would be to allow the user to "optimize" for a certain size range and distance. Perhaps they come at a balance. You can extend your range and only see very large ships or that there are a large number of ships within some X amount of distance, but then you miss out on smaller hulls. Maybe you shorten up your range considerably to see all sizes of hulls but you only get a few thousand kilometers of range.
Also if possible it would be nice if people's ships existed for a shorter period of time on grid and detectable before they could activate modules. Catching people right now is partly difficult because of the amount of time people have after you're on grid, but still not able to target them. It's hard to do a surprise attack when you're sitting there for a few seconds decelerating in warp. |
Quintessen
Jalepeno Self Sabatoge
52
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Posted - 2013.03.25 13:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Sylvia Nardieu wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Takes you all will to live after 15min doing it.
You're bored after 15mins of probing? Maybe exploration isn't really for you then? For real. For pure true mind-numbing, try filling up an Orca 6 times with Ice with 2 toons. can i be tabbed out while i'm doing it? because i manage to do it with ore without wanting to kill myself but tv shows keep me sane...
And this is why mining needs to attentiveness. The problem with making it more attentive is that fewer people would do it AFK which while people would normally consider a good thing, downward pressure on mineral prices from increased supply is what is keeping T1 ship and module prices down. Also mining would have to be made fairly engaging if it were replaced with a different mechanic. Something that was mellow, but also rewarding. |
Quintessen
Jalepeno Self Sabatoge
52
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Posted - 2013.03.25 13:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Quintessen wrote:
E.g. a way to make the scanner strategic and automatic would be to allow the user to "optimize" for a certain size range and distance. Perhaps they come at a balance. You can extend your range and only see very large ships or that there are a large number of ships within some X amount of distance, but then you miss out on smaller hulls. Maybe you shorten up your range considerably to see all sizes of hulls but you only get a few thousand kilometers of range.
Just a btw: I believe we are discussing Core Scanner Exploration Probing and that aspect mentioned in the Odyssey ad and presentation, which can't even see ships. EDIT: maybe a bit has been brought in about d-scan, but d-scanning ships has nothing to do at all with skills.
I was specifically referring to the point about 'being too lazy to d-scan'. For me it's not about laziness. Having to hit it every X seconds is the definition of tedium. It reminds me of Homer Simpson's job which apparently was hitting a button every X seconds. Any mechanic that can be done with one of those little birds that bops up and down continuously is a bad mechanic. |
Quintessen
Jalepeno Self Sabatoge
52
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Posted - 2013.03.25 15:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Quintessen wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Quintessen wrote:
E.g. a way to make the scanner strategic and automatic would be to allow the user to "optimize" for a certain size range and distance. Perhaps they come at a balance. You can extend your range and only see very large ships or that there are a large number of ships within some X amount of distance, but then you miss out on smaller hulls. Maybe you shorten up your range considerably to see all sizes of hulls but you only get a few thousand kilometers of range.
Just a btw: I believe we are discussing Core Scanner Exploration Probing and that aspect mentioned in the Odyssey ad and presentation, which can't even see ships. EDIT: maybe a bit has been brought in about d-scan, but d-scanning ships has nothing to do at all with skills. I was specifically referring to the point about 'being too lazy to d-scan'. For me it's not about laziness. Having to hit it every X seconds is the definition of tedium. It reminds me of Homer Simpson's job which apparently was hitting a button every X seconds. Any mechanic that can be done with one of those little birds that bops up and down continuously is a bad mechanic. But one has to hit it constantly, as the 'situation in system' can change....constantly. There is no 'fix' for that reality.
That's why I was referring to making it something that you don't have to click on constantly -- i.e. automation -- but does require thinking. |
Quintessen
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53
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Posted - 2013.03.25 16:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Quintessen wrote:That's why I was referring to making it something that you don't have to click on constantly -- i.e. automation -- but does require thinking. and what sort of "thinking" does the current system require other than "mindlessly click the same button over and over"?
It doesn't require any thinking and that's why it must go. I think people have known for a long time that the basic fact-finding and intelligence gameplay in this game was in sore need of revamp. The problem is that there are multiple sides vying for advantage and they're often in opposition. Currently the status quo favors those not wanting to fight. Local as intelligence tool is a widely debated topic here. Ultimately CCP is going to have to come up with a solution to the problem, but annoying it is one of those problems that needs to be fixed in large chunks. You simply cannot remove local or do a major revamp until all the other pieces are in place.
D-scan is a useful tool, but frankly it's also a tool that you don't need to think about. That should change. I'm not going to get into how since clearly CCP already has stuff in the pipe and what would be the point. We'll need to see where they go with this before we can comment on positives and negatives. |
Quintessen
Jalepeno Self Sabatoge
53
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Posted - 2013.03.25 16:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Roime wrote:Yes, local greatly reduces the chances of catching people, but D-Scan does not, because some people don't use it. If it would be automatic, everyone would see approaching ships and simply warp out.
Furthermore finding targets and analyzing the system with the current D-scan is a player skill. I don't get how your idea would make it more of a mind game, sounds more like it would remove the need for any player skills.
Automatic does not mean continuous. A cycle time of say 10 seconds or 30 seconds wouldn't give players an overt advantage. But in any case the analysis is where the skill comes in, not the hitting of the button. |
Quintessen
Jalepeno Self Sabatoge
56
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Posted - 2013.03.26 17:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:The problem is, that removing one man's tedious is another man's dumbing down.
I can quote an exact process here.
1) find configuration online 2) launch to new location 3) move to safe spot 4) launch probes (enough for configuration) 5) move all to center (using shift drag) 6) arrange into configuration 7) center probes around blip (using shift drag) 8) size down probes (shift drag and alt drag) so they look smaller 9) scan 10) if less than 100% goto 7 11) get bacon
Not a lot of thinking in the above. It's not like the locations fight back or change the parameters as you scan. That's tedium. It's playing the same chess game over and over again when you know how your opponent will move. Maybe it has more than one move set, but once you've seen all the possible moves, it's the same each and every time. That's the very definition of tedium.
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Quintessen
Jalepeno Self Sabatoge
56
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Posted - 2013.03.26 20:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pelea Ming wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Pelea Ming wrote:Daemon Xel wrote:Also fix sites please, nothing more annoying then getting to a radar site and all nodes empty. well, you realize them having something in them is based on the total modified effectiveness of the 'hack' between both ship, module, and skill level bonuses... the higher that total is, not only the more likely they are to have something in them, but that it be something worth the time. The Hacking Skills only improve the chance of the can opening per cycle, not the contents. Otherwise, post source for this information. personal experience from doing such things myself in C6 WH sites.
What formula covers the difference between not succeeding in the hack and succeeding, but getting nothing or getting nothing worthwhile? |
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Quintessen
Jalepeno Self Sabatoge
56
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Posted - 2013.03.26 20:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:No formula for opening a can. Just increased chance of faster opening.
Don't believe everything posted in GD. Ever. Especially if people cannot post source material or are reluctant to.
I didn't believe it, but was giving them the opportunity to post sources for the formula I described above. |
Quintessen
Jalepeno Self Sabatoge
57
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Posted - 2013.03.28 18:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Rek Seven wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:"
As a high sec carebear, how many of my alt mining accounts will I be unsubscribing with this "industrial resource rebalance"?
Hopefully all of them you whiny man child... But i guess just like everyone else, you have to wait and see. indeed. it's about time high sec mining wasn't an isk printing machine and null was worth mining in once again.
So why isn't null worth mining? |
Quintessen
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57
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Posted - 2013.03.28 19:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Quintessen wrote: So why isn't null worth mining?
AFK cloakies Null rents and politics Stress Others can dictate to you, your play style Difficulty transporting, lack of trade hubs, hassles converting mins to ISK Too much boom I want to log in, do my thing for a couple hours, be left alone, no stress, make some ISK, then log out. EVE may be life to you. It is a casual escape from the stresses of my life for me. I don't need a game that is more work than fun, thanks.
Lack of industry in general seems to be the problem, not that null mining isn't worthwhile. It seems the fundamental problem is that you can't see locally which causes the miners/industrialists to be even bigger targets causing more stress. The other stuff is just a part of null and isn't going to change (e.g. politics, dictating play style).
Though that's partly, but not entirely, due to the major null alliance's opinion of industrialists. The first and overriding criteria of a lot of null alliances is, do you have lots of PvP experience and can you fly the ships if our PvP fleet doctrines.
Easier industry would be good, but so would null sec alliance adjusting their attitudes towards industrialists (some not all have this problem). |
Quintessen
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57
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Posted - 2013.03.28 20:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Since every nullsec mineral is worth more in terms of isk/m3, how is it that it's less profitable? And would it matter that it's more profitable than hi sec mining if it's still less profitable than all the other things you can do in null that are so much more profitable? Would it really need to be a 100M/hour kind of thing to viable? |
Quintessen
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57
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Posted - 2013.03.28 20:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:because a minerals isk/m3 is irrelevant. however i will assume you mean ore, because that is relevant
Sorry, yeah. Let's just say it's been a long week.
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