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BadFC
BadFleet
23
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Posted - 2013.04.02 03:36:00 -
[91] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:David Devant wrote:It seems daft, but I honestly think that Zarnak's point 3 (i.e. RP reasons around white supremacy) really shouldn't be underestimated. People who play this game generally have reasonable IQs and (in my experience) are rarely facist pigs and don't want to pretend to be one either.
It might be helpful if the story actually evolved rather than staying so static. The empress Jamyl has done a pretty crap job of leading her people. Maybe there could be some reform on the cards? Some mention of terrible Minmatar atrocities.
I know the vast majority will say that they don't care about this sort of thing but actually the 4 race model is sort of a personality test and in my experience players often conform to it. Exactly. Figure that basically 90+% of all players come from USA or Europe. Capitalist democracies by and large. And like all other governments on Earth they indoctrinate their youth from day one with the notion that Our Way Is Best And Only Way For The World. Then they carefully edit history to make themselves into shining stars and everyone else look bad. What these obedient little drones don't do is look outside their own tiny windows at the scope of history or the size of the planet that they live on. When people, especially Americans, think of slavery they only think of their own tarnished history and, like all good little practitioners of White Guilt, make a big hum-do about opposing it. Meanwhile, back in the rest of human existence... the pyramids weren't build by union workers with great health benefits, yet no one minds taking billions of photos of them and saying "wow that's cool." The Roman Empire took slaves a tribute in all their conquests. You know, Rome, the "Greatest Western Civilization?" And oh yeah, all those big democracy fans might want to read up on the slave-based economy of the "Birthplace of Democracy," Ancient Greece. And it never stopped, either. The Barbary States enslaved untold numbers of white Europeans in their time. The Spanish were not the first people to start enslaving people in the New World, either: The local tribal nations (Aztecs come to mind) had been doing it to each other for untold centuries before ever laying eyes a pale face. Even today human trafficking still rages on all over the world. The only difference is that now they're more subtle about it, but there's no shortage of fat, old English chaps flying over to Thailand on a daily basis to take advantage of the uncountable number of underage sex slaves over there. And speaking of sex slaves, do I even need to mention Russia? Or the very idea of "Mail Order Brides?" Heck, look at the USA's own Founding Fathers. Are you, Mr.Patriot, going to tell me that they were unforgivably evil people because, oh yeah, they all happened to be slave owners? And tell me: What is the real, tangible difference between a Haitian seamstress making .05 an hour at some Disney owned factory and a straight-up slave from three hundred years ago? Do you think the police down there are really going to stand up for her rights if some white business executive tries to do Bad Things to her? The illusion of freedom must be very comforting indeed to those people buying Nike shoes and Little Mermaid toys for their kids. Here's the reality: The more energy you put into your song & dance routine about freedom, democracy and opposing slavery the more of a hypocrite you look like when all the evidence from the present down to three thousand years ago starts to pile up. You're not doing it because it's what you really believe - you're doing it because it's what you've been taught by The System and peer pressure to claim (quite loudly) that you believe. I promise that if you took the average EvE playing male and dumped him on island of naked women who made them their king it would be nothing more than orgies at gunpoint 24/7. I don't care what their political party card says, or what their religion is, or anything else. Slavery isn't a social, economic, moral or political issue. It's about power, and seeking power over others is hardwired into the human psyche at a genetic level - no exceptions. You can apply self-discipline to overcome actually acting on that desire, but the desire will always still be there in the back of your mind one way or another. So spare me the self-righteous garbage about loving "freedom." You love your own freedom, nothing more.
U Mad bro?
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1271
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 11:27:00 -
[92] - Quote
No, but only because I found a picture of you.
Live Events are neither. |
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
419
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 12:31:00 -
[93] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Takseen wrote:
No amount of stabbed farmers can take away a system from pvpers that want to hold it.
right as long as the pvpers: are online 24/7 and never want to leave that system to do some pvp.
Even one guy deplexing for half a day can put a huge dent in the farmer's efforts if they were actually interested in flipping the system. If they're not interested in flipping your system, they'll just go somewhere less well defended. Now if there's such a low level of occupancy that they can't muster even half a day's worth of defending, then maybe they don't deserve to hold a system?
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Rina Kondur
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
35
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Posted - 2013.04.02 13:00:00 -
[94] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote: When Amarr advances I don't see the same surge in numbers. The reason I created this post was simple: Why?
maybe cos u have irratating cockbags like fweddit acting like 2 year old children it puts alot of people off
Confirming Fweddit is a part of the Amarr Militia. But unlike you suggest we are slightly older than two. We at least know correct spelling, punctuation, and sentence structure. I also find your attack quite insulting and demand an apology or I will be filing a petition with the good people at CCP. Such language and personal attacks can not be tolerated in such a child friendly game. Most of my corporation members are at most six years old. I can't have them seeing language like this.
Also. Posting in a Faction Warfare thread that will accomplish absolutely nothing. Carry on. |
Juan Rayo
Justified Chaos
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 13:11:00 -
[95] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Takseen wrote:Cearain wrote:
If ccp wants to leave fw sov broken they can but if they are going to spend any time on it they should focus on the real problem. Make it so you win sov through pvp instead of hide and seek plexing and FW is fixed.
No amount of stabbed farmers can take away a system from pvpers that want to hold it. right as long as the pvpers: are online 24/7 and never want to leave that system to do some pvp.
Bull. I can tell you for a fact that a corp that lives in fw losec, doesn't have people online 24/7 and does leave their home system to go roam and pew pew CAN in fact easily hold a system against farmers. I know this because you know, I AM actually in faction warfare not complaining about it from afar, and my corp would never get our system taken by farmers (lol).
I know CLONE also defend their systems quite easy, TPlus also do it, and everyone knows farmers only go to Qcat systems to die, fortress Nenna is defended as well. That's on the Gallente side but I'm sure the Caldari in Enaluri would laugh their butts off if you told them that farmers could make their system vulnerable, as they do a great job defending their home.
Hell, JUSTK and others have been keeping not 1 but 3 systems. And one of those systems is Eha.
So yeah, as Takseen said, no amount of stabbed farmers can take away a system from pvpers that want to hold it.
One thing we do is "a plex a day" policy. It's quite simple: if every corpie runs one defensive plex a day, nobody has to burn out and the systems stay healthy in our hands. That and you aggresively chase out/kill the farmers and you are in control of your area.
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Archon Malefacous
Reclamation Technologies Libertus Coventu Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 13:30:00 -
[96] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:David Devant wrote:It seems daft, but I honestly think that Zarnak's point 3 (i.e. RP reasons around white supremacy) really shouldn't be underestimated. People who play this game generally have reasonable IQs and (in my experience) are rarely facist pigs and don't want to pretend to be one either.
It might be helpful if the story actually evolved rather than staying so static. The empress Jamyl has done a pretty crap job of leading her people. Maybe there could be some reform on the cards? Some mention of terrible Minmatar atrocities.
I know the vast majority will say that they don't care about this sort of thing but actually the 4 race model is sort of a personality test and in my experience players often conform to it. Exactly. Figure that basically 90+% of all players come from USA or Europe. Capitalist democracies by and large. And like all other governments on Earth they indoctrinate their youth from day one with the notion that Our Way Is Best And Only Way For The World. Then they carefully edit history to make themselves into shining stars and everyone else look bad. What these obedient little drones don't do is look outside their own tiny windows at the scope of history or the size of the planet that they live on. When people, especially Americans, think of slavery they only think of their own tarnished history and, like all good little practitioners of White Guilt, make a big hum-do about opposing it. Meanwhile, back in the rest of human existence... the pyramids weren't build by union workers with great health benefits, yet no one minds taking billions of photos of them and saying "wow that's cool." The Roman Empire took slaves a tribute in all their conquests. You know, Rome, the "Greatest Western Civilization?" And oh yeah, all those big democracy fans might want to read up on the slave-based economy of the "Birthplace of Democracy," Ancient Greece. And it never stopped, either. The Barbary States enslaved untold numbers of white Europeans in their time. The Spanish were not the first people to start enslaving people in the New World, either: The local tribal nations (Aztecs come to mind) had been doing it to each other for untold centuries before ever laying eyes a pale face. Even today human trafficking still rages on all over the world. The only difference is that now they're more subtle about it, but there's no shortage of fat, old English chaps flying over to Thailand on a daily basis to take advantage of the uncountable number of underage sex slaves over there. And speaking of sex slaves, do I even need to mention Russia? Or the very idea of "Mail Order Brides?" Heck, look at the USA's own Founding Fathers. Are you, Mr.Patriot, going to tell me that they were unforgivably evil people because, oh yeah, they all happened to be slave owners? And tell me: What is the real, tangible difference between a Haitian seamstress making .05 an hour at some Disney owned factory and a straight-up slave from three hundred years ago? Do you think the police down there are really going to stand up for her rights if some white business executive tries to do Bad Things to her? The illusion of freedom must be very comforting indeed to those people buying Nike shoes and Little Mermaid toys for their kids. Here's the reality: The more energy you put into your song & dance routine about freedom, democracy and opposing slavery the more of a hypocrite you look like when all the evidence from the present down to three thousand years ago starts to pile up. You're not doing it because it's what you really believe - you're doing it because it's what you've been taught by The System and peer pressure to claim (quite loudly) that you believe. I promise that if you took the average EvE playing male and dumped him on island of naked women who made them their king it would be nothing more than orgies at gunpoint 24/7. I don't care what their political party card says, or what their religion is, or anything else. Slavery isn't a social, economic, moral or political issue. It's about power, and seeking power over others is hardwired into the human psyche at a genetic level - no exceptions. You can apply self-discipline to overcome actually acting on that desire, but the desire will always still be there in the back of your mind one way or another. So spare me the self-righteous garbage about loving "freedom." You love your own freedom, nothing more.
Silence! Get back to work slave! |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
159
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 13:44:00 -
[97] - Quote
Rina Kondur wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote: When Amarr advances I don't see the same surge in numbers. The reason I created this post was simple: Why?
maybe cos u have irratating cockbags like fweddit acting like 2 year old children it puts alot of people off Confirming Fweddit is a part of the Amarr Militia. But unlike you suggest we are slightly older than two. We at least know correct spelling, punctuation, and sentence structure. I also find your attack quite insulting and demand an apology or I will be filing a petition with the good people at CCP. Such language and personal attacks can not be tolerated in such a child friendly game. Most of my corporation members are at most six years old. I can't have them seeing language like this. Also. Posting in a Faction Warfare thread that will accomplish absolutely nothing. Carry on.
better start that petition then GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 14:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Juan Rayo wrote:Cearain wrote:Takseen wrote:Cearain wrote:
If ccp wants to leave fw sov broken they can but if they are going to spend any time on it they should focus on the real problem. Make it so you win sov through pvp instead of hide and seek plexing and FW is fixed.
No amount of stabbed farmers can take away a system from pvpers that want to hold it. right as long as the pvpers: are online 24/7 and never want to leave that system to do some pvp. Bull. I can tell you for a fact that a corp that lives in fw losec, doesn't have people online 24/7 and does leave their home system to go roam and pew pew CAN in fact easily hold a system against farmers. I know this because you know, I AM actually in faction warfare not complaining about it from afar, and my corp would never get our system taken by farmers (lol). I know CLONE also defend their systems quite easy, TPlus also do it, and everyone knows farmers only go to Qcat systems to die, fortress Nenna is defended as well. That's on the Gallente side but I'm sure the Caldari in Enaluri would laugh their butts off if you told them that farmers could make their system vulnerable, as they do a great job defending their home. Hell, JUSTK and others have been keeping not 1 but 3 systems. And one of those systems is Eha. So yeah, as Takseen said, no amount of stabbed farmers can take away a system from pvpers that want to hold it. One thing we do is "a plex a day" policy. It's quite simple: if every corpie runs one defensive plex a day, nobody has to burn out and the systems stay healthy in our hands. That and you aggresively chase out/kill the farmers and you are in control of your area.
Oh I see you let enemy come and take the plexes but then after the enemy leaves you have your alts spin buttons to keep it. That does sound like a good strategy with these mechanics.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Princess Nexxala
quantum cats syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
338
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 14:41:00 -
[99] - Quote
Works great, one of many ways to counter the farmers.
Cearain wrote:
Oh I see you let enemy come and take the plexes but then after the enemy leaves you have your alts spin buttons to keep it. That does sound like a good strategy with these mechanics.
derp? |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 14:50:00 -
[100] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Works great, one of many ways to counter the farmers. Cearain wrote:
Oh I see you let enemy come and take the plexes but then after the enemy leaves you have your alts spin buttons to keep it. That does sound like a good strategy with these mechanics.
If you can't beat the rabbits, join them. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Juan Rayo
Justified Chaos
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 14:57:00 -
[101] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Oh I see you let enemy come and take the plexes but then after the enemy leaves you have your alts spin buttons to keep it. That does sound like a good strategy with these mechanics.
Guess you missed the part where I mentioned how we kill them or chase them off. In any case, you are changing the subject: you made a bullshit, patently false assertion (yet again) about FW, and I am telling you it's false, and why it is false: no ammount of plex farmers can take a system from pvpers that want to hold it, and no those pvpers don't have to be there 24/7, and can actually go roam and have fun.
FW is great at the moment man. You should try it sometimes, maybe then you'll stop with your hyperbolic **** about it.
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:12:00 -
[102] - Quote
Juan Rayo wrote:Cearain wrote:Oh I see you let enemy come and take the plexes but then after the enemy leaves you have your alts spin buttons to keep it. That does sound like a good strategy with these mechanics. Guess you missed the part where I mentioned how we kill them or chase them off.
You are either there 24/7 to do this or you are not.
You claimed you did not have to be. And pointed out that you can just run defensive plexes to account for it. I actually agree that is a good way to do it. And I posted the lossmails of alts in stabbed ships who do this defensive plexing for you. So like I said if you can't beat the rabbits join them.
Juan Rayo wrote: In any case, you are changing the subject: you made a bullshit, patently false assertion (yet again) about FW, and I am telling you it's false, and why it is false: no ammount of plex farmers can take a system from pvpers that want to hold it, and no those pvpers don't have to be there 24/7, and can actually go roam and have fun.
FW is great at the moment man. You should try it sometimes, maybe then you'll stop with your hyperbolic **** about it.
I have done faction war in these mechanics. The sov game is still broken and rabbit pve is still the most effective way to fight for sov.
But if you don't believe me look at the top vp gainers for a day and then look at their killboard for that day. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
420
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 17:06:00 -
[103] - Quote
Cearain sometimes you just confuse me. Obviously if there is no one to defend your system, you will have to do something else to repair the damage afterwards instead. In this case, you dplex. Would you prefer if we had to rep a structure, shoot another structure, mine roids or shoot red crosses? |
Dan Carter Murray
398
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 18:11:00 -
[104] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Cearain sometimes you just confuse me. Obviously if there is no one to defend your system, you will have to do something else to repair the damage afterwards instead. In this case, you dplex. Would you prefer if we had to rep a structure, shoot another structure, mine roids or shoot red crosses?
he prefers a notification system and a warlock summoning stone IF YOU DON'T FLY AMARR THEN YOU DON'T LIKE A CHALLENGE SO GET ******
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1199
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 18:34:00 -
[105] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:he prefers a notification system and a warlock summoning stone We call this a Titan Bridge in Eve. All of our pilots have been instructed to place a warlock summonning stone, err.. cyno, on every one of their ships. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 19:09:00 -
[106] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Cearain sometimes you just confuse me. Obviously if there is no one to defend your system, you will have to do something else to repair the damage afterwards instead. In this case, you dplex. Would you prefer if we had to rep a structure, shoot another structure, mine roids or shoot red crosses?
No I wish we could actually defend our systems by fighting the people trying to take the plex in the first place. You know, pvp.
But the current mechanics do not provide the tools necessary to effectively do that. So we are left with sending our own rabbits out to defensive plex after the enemy leaves. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
420
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Posted - 2013.04.02 19:26:00 -
[107] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
No I wish we could actually defend our systems by fighting the people trying to take the plex in the first place. You know, pvp. But the current mechanics do not provide the tools necessary to effectively do that. So we are left with sending our own rabbits out to defensive plex after the enemy leaves.
If you're online, you can chase them out by warping into their plex. If you're NOT online, which is possible for a pvp group with a limited operational timezone, you unfortunately might need to do some dplexing.
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
859
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Posted - 2013.04.02 22:00:00 -
[108] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Cearain wrote:
No I wish we could actually defend our systems by fighting the people trying to take the plex in the first place. You know, pvp. But the current mechanics do not provide the tools necessary to effectively do that. So we are left with sending our own rabbits out to defensive plex after the enemy leaves.
If you're online, you can chase them out by warping into their plex. If you're NOT online, which is possible for a pvp group with a limited operational timezone, you unfortunately might need to do some dplexing.
Right but if we were notified when our miltiary complexes were being attacked, then we would only need about 10 people to cover the warzone. And those 10 or more people would see constant pvp action.
Instead the rabbits can hide and plex, forcing the pvpers to either choose to endlessly "roam" around looking for them or turning rabbit themselves and d-plexing. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
266
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 22:08:00 -
[109] - Quote
I just had an idea : what if the timer always goes forward, whatever the faction of the ship in it and give LP only to the winning side when a faction manage to be alone around the beacon ? Timer may stop when more than one faction is in the room, but the idea is to not have to deplex the time of the plex on top of the time the plexer already plexed.
That would stress the need to defend the plex and fight for it, because you would lose more than a little time doing this (pvper seem to value their time more than plexers, as strange as that can seem).
Downside of the idea is that this would favor blob when real fights for systems happen. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1279
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 01:34:00 -
[110] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Cearain sometimes you just confuse me. Obviously if there is no one to defend your system, you will have to do something else to repair the damage afterwards instead. In this case, you dplex. Would you prefer if we had to rep a structure, shoot another structure, mine roids or shoot red crosses?
Actually... you may be on to something there! Why not try these things?
Live Events are neither. |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1624
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 04:09:00 -
[111] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:I just had an idea : what if the timer always goes forward, whatever the faction of the ship in it and give LP only to the winning side when a faction manage to be alone around the beacon ? Timer may stop when more than one faction is in the room, but the idea is to not have to deplex the time of the plex on top of the time the plexer already plexed.
That would stress the need to defend the plex and fight for it, because you would lose more than a little time doing this (pvper seem to value their time more than plexers, as strange as that can seem).
Downside of the idea is that this would favor blob when real fights for systems happen.
thats basically what we are asking for since inferno, just not as harsh as your variant. variant a) timers could run backwards if the offender leaves the plex till the plex is back at default state variant b) plex could reset to default state if the offender leaves variant c) timer could count only in one direction, last ship determines who wins (quite drastic)
i personally don't care... any of those three variants would create a incentive to stay and fight. Variant C favors the defender maybe a bit too much (blob risk), B could be a nice compromise... even A would be great. a eve-style bounty system (done)-á dust boarding parties You fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
558
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 08:46:00 -
[112] - Quote
Regardless of solutions offered, it is nice to see the disparate FW crowd agreeing that something is amiss and in need of fixing.
Now I only hope the farm lobby doesn't frequent the forums or they'll threadnaught CCP into believing that the solution is even more LP like they did when they co-opted the "Fix FW" campaign and got us into the mess we are in now |
Horak Thor
The Vo'Shun
201
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 09:15:00 -
[113] - Quote
Faction war is as yet still broken. The fact is its a permanent war, every few months without fail war zone control shifts and the farmers with it. Why does it shift? Because 1 side burns out, stops playing loses loads of systems, starts playing, the other side burns out loses systems etc etc
If ccp wanted a feature basing the victor on who is currently less bored burnt out with game mechanics. Mission success The Vo'Shun is recruiting |
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