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Markus Reese
Incertae Sedis
345
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Posted - 2013.03.27 01:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
First off, the comments about an investigation into the commanders. Had they been within his scope, there would most assuredly be some statement about the honor and their giving their lives in an attempt to protect the homeland. It seems odd to me that the actions of the Admiral would be addressed in such a disconcerting tone had Heth's cabinet had any power or sway over what has happened.
Secondly, It is pretty obvious that Heth is in direct opposition to Ishukone's operations. The fact that if my charts are correct, the relief fleet moved through a low security constellation instead of controlled and safe high security space. To me it seems like a foolish and illogical move unless there was greater threat on the main shipping routes.
Ishukone is one of the three major companies in caldari and also manufacturers of the prominent Vulture fleet command modification to the standard navy Ferox. For the navy to estrange itself from such a specialist supplier so openly begs other questions.
Who else will follow since it seems that Heth would put racial grudges ahead of the well being of the survivors of Caldari Prime? |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
781
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Posted - 2013.03.27 02:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
As a squadron member in support of the convoy while it was in route to its destination, I assure you that the path chosen to be taken by the convoy was the most legitimate and calculated path that could have been taken at the time.
Executor Heth has made his stance clear regarding Ishukone and the activities of the Federation. His public attack against the admiral he put in place does not speak well of him.
I will refrain from further comment. ~Malcolm Khross
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
10
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Posted - 2013.03.27 02:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
I tend to agree with Khross-haan.
Executor Heth put Admiral Yanala into that position. To some degree, then, he deserves responsibility for any failures on her part.
Similarly, Ishukone is attempting to deliver aid to the people of Caldari Prime. Surely it is good to deliver necessary food and medical supplies to the Caldari people...?
While I appreciate Khross-haan's discretion, I will go a step further: action against Heth may be required soon, for the good of the State. |
Tiber Brucato
Alexylva Paradox
16
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Posted - 2013.03.27 03:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
I hope he's ready to bear the responsability of saying those words, and how history will judge them. |
Markus Reese
Incertae Sedis
345
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Posted - 2013.03.27 03:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote:As a squadron member in support of the convoy while it was in route to its destination, I assure you that the path chosen to be taken by the convoy was the most legitimate and calculated path that could have been taken at the time.
Executor Heth has made his stance clear regarding Ishukone and the activities of the Federation. His public attack against the admiral he put in place does not speak well of him.
I will refrain from further comment.
First off, my apologies to you and the fleet!
I was in station at the time I read the news article via a mobile neocom terminal. Upon checking my charts data, I misread the location of the constellation as being in black rise.
Having returned to my quarters, I re-checked the constellation and found my statement about routing to be in error.
That is all. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
258
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Posted - 2013.03.27 08:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
I was expecting him to be outspoken against Ishukone. His interests have long seemed to lie more in harming the Gallente than helping the Caldari, and Ishukone has long fended off his un-Caldari was in trying to dictate the corporations actions to that effect.
I am surprised and appalled by what he is saying about his own military commanders appointed by himself. Despite having lost the viscous battle, they still possess more honor and integrity than him, and regardless of that, he shares the blame for any of the Admiral's failings since Heth personally appointed the Admiral for the position.
I fear that the message about the viscous attacks by Gallente my end up ignored by the other nations solely because the speaker is so reprehensible. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
385
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Posted - 2013.03.27 08:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
There is no really such things as division.
Markus Reese wrote:First off, the comments about an investigation into the commanders. Had they been within his scope, there would most assuredly be some statement about the honor and their giving their lives in an attempt to protect the homeland. It seems odd to me that the actions of the Admiral would be addressed in such a disconcerting tone had Heth's cabinet had any power or sway over what has happened. Orders must be followed, and those, who give orders can't hold your hand in whatever you do. Unfortunately, this time, despite practically destroying gallente strike force, we have failed. Analysing the situation and learning from our mistakes is a best choice to prepare for a proper retaliation strike, that gallenteans wouldn't be able to resist.
Markus Reese wrote: Secondly, It is pretty obvious that Heth is in direct opposition to Ishukone's operations. The fact that if my charts are correct, the relief fleet moved through a low security constellation instead of controlled and safe high security space. To me it seems like a foolish and illogical move unless there was greater threat on the main shipping routes.
Oh, this is not so obvious, or, rather, it should be turned in different direction. Tibus Heth represent corporations of our State, and it is rather Ishukone who is in opposition to the rest of the State. Of course our valorous leader can't ignore this issue. Ishukone plays by walking on a thin edge, and, unfortunately, walks in different direction that the rest of the State by licking federal boots.
Markus Reese wrote: Ishukone is one of the three major companies in caldari and also manufacturers of the prominent Vulture fleet command modification to the standard navy Ferox. For the navy to estrange itself from such a specialist supplier so openly begs other questions.
This is not the only thing that they are working for, there are still covert ops and even jump freighters. But still this is not relevant. Just producing some sort of good doesn't allow a corporation to oppose everyone else and disgracing the State by their deeds.
Markus Reese wrote: Who else will follow since it seems that Heth would put racial grudges ahead of the well being of the survivors of Caldari Prime?
So far what he said, I will fully follow to his words. He is doing necessary things. Of course there will be traitorous scum that will try to oppose him and thus oppose our State, but this is definitely is not enough to make a 'division'. Caldari are strong and determined. And we can find and root out rebellous traitorous scum before they will really hurt. |
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam Amarr Empire
208
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Posted - 2013.03.27 09:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Let me start with two apologies before I continue. Firstly, I apologize to my Caldari friends and to any Caldari who might see the following as some outsider trying to dictate something to you all. That is not my intent, I merely wish to draw some attention to some historical similarities. Secondly, I apologize to any fellow Amarrians for the upcoming usage of a distasteful word. Now then, with that out of the way I'll get to the point.
It occurred to me that there are some similarities, granted they could seem slight and minor, between the current state of affairs within the leadership of the Caldari State, and something that happened in the Empire nearly two thousand years ago. I speak of Zaragram the Second, one of our Emperors who is more commonly remembered as The Mad Emperor if he is even remembered at all. The Mad Emperor came into power at a time in the Empire when political power was heavily vested in the Council of Apostles, of which the Emperor traditionally held the chief position within. However Zaragram sought more and more power. His reign was characterized by bold Imperial decrees that were increasingly contrary to Amarrian faith and tradition. In fact his religious decrees are quite plainly considered heretical, both by modern standards and the standards of the time. The Mad Emperor became simply a grave threat to the Amarrian people and Amarrian culture at large. Eventually The Mad Emperor's heresies earned him not only a worldly assassination, but also the most severe punishment to exist in the Empire. His name was struck from The Book of Records. I...may not be able to truly explain the cultural significance of this action to those who are not Amarrian themselves. But suffice it to say, it is considered more severe than execution or enslavement. But even with the actions of faithful Amarrians to reverse the heretical decrees of the Mad Emperor, to repair the damage he had done, it still took some five centuries before the Empire could be said to have recovered and began to thrive again.
Again, I am not intending to dictate or even suggest drastic action to the Caldari people. I simply felt it was an appropriate time to draw attention to seemingly, if vaguely, similar situations. If anything I would stress that history has lessons that can provide some longer-term perspective on the present age. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
385
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Posted - 2013.03.27 10:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
You amarrians with your Emperors. No, of course I respect your culture, but just projecting Emperor on us was not a really good move. Yes, I know a certain organization, that is inclined towards one of our own empires of the old age. And I know of a certain corporations, whose leader too often challenges the State.
Luckily, we have Tibus Heth, who is protecting our culture, our souverenity and our interests and won't allow this 'Mad Emperor' scenario to come true. Together with our Executor, all together as one State we will overcome all problems and difficulties. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
783
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 10:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thank you for sharing a lesson gleaned from history, Ferhnah. You need not apologize for seeking to impart wisdom from the experiences of your own people and you didn't attempt to dictate the actions the Caldari should take.
I will consider the lessons contained within the history you have presented. ~Malcolm Khross
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
11
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Posted - 2013.03.27 15:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
As Khross-haan has said, thank you, Ms. Fehrnah.
I know that I have been outspoken lately about the arrogance of some. If I may be so bold, Fehrnah's lesson is a wonderful example of how cross-cultural exchange should be: the humble sharing of a lesson, rather than an imperious passing-from-on-high of a decree.
Again, thank you. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
12
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Posted - 2013.03.27 16:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Also, Khross-haan? We may have to disagree soon. It's very nearly unseemly to be of like mind on so many things. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
529
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Posted - 2013.03.27 16:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
As the pilot who made the suggestion to fleet command for the Ishukone jump freighters to use Seyllin as the detour system, I want to make clear that the suggestion was made in response to an urgent request for a lowsec system that not only had a highsec connection, but was also close to Luminaire and within jump range of the system the convoy was held up in.
This request was made in response to a potentially hostile situation that was brewing in the Sivala-Uedama pipe. Rather than risk losing one or more of the freighters and the urgently-needed supplies within, the commander of the Ishukone pilots decided to take the suggestion, and sent Verin ahead to supply the cynosural beacon. Any other option would have caused unnecessary risk to the convoy. Morwen Lagann Director, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
789
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Posted - 2013.03.27 16:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Also, Khross-haan? We may have to disagree soon. It's very nearly unseemly to be of like mind on so many things.
I disagree. ~Malcolm Khross
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Reeves Todako
Caldari Corn Paste
50
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Posted - 2013.03.27 17:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sounds to me like everyone, Caldari Commanders included, need to take a vacation! Perhaps add a bit more Caldari Corn Paste to your diets, eh? Studies have shown it to be 34.9% more effective then competitors brands in calming the nerves and digestive systems! |
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
238
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Posted - 2013.03.27 17:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Reeves Todako wrote:Sounds to me like everyone, Caldari Commanders included, need to take a vacation! Perhaps add a bit more Caldari Corn Paste to your diets, eh? Studies have shown it to be 34.9% more effective then competitors brands in calming the nerves and digestive systems! Caldari State Executor Tibus Heth needs to purge the Caldari Navy of its Commanders and take direct control of the Navy.
This debacle is the fault of the Caldari Navy. Unfortunately, they have misrepresented themselves to the Caldari State Executor who, in his greatness of goodwill to his people, believed in them.
The time is now for the Caldari State to rise up from this disaster and remove the incompetent in the Caldari Navy. |
Fredfredbug4
The Scope Gallente Federation
625
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 17:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
As usual, Tibus Heth directs the blame to everyone but himself and the people of the State are beginning to see through this charade. I accidentally my assets, is this bad?-á |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
16
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Posted - 2013.03.27 18:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm finding it difficult to take Fractal Muse seriously.
Is that person serious?
I'm assuming not...? |
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
238
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Posted - 2013.03.27 18:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:I'm finding it difficult to take Fractal Muse seriously.
Is that person serious?
I'm assuming not...? I am serious.
The signs are clear and the path that needs to be taken even clearer.
The Caldari State has allowed for the incompetence of its navy to persist for too long. It is time to shake things up and to purge the bad commanders across all of the organization. This restructuring would strengthen the Caldari State and allow Heth to enact policy in a more direct and forceful manner.
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Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
793
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 18:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fractal Muse wrote: I am serious.
The signs are clear and the path that needs to be taken even clearer.
The Caldari State has allowed for the incompetence of its navy to persist for too long. It is time to shake things up and to purge the bad commanders across all of the organization. This restructuring would strengthen the Caldari State and allow Heth to enact policy in a more direct and forceful manner.
In that case I will put this politely.
Your opinion, for all it is worth, has been noted. ~Malcolm Khross
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2346
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Posted - 2013.03.27 18:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fractal Muse wrote:I am serious.
The signs are clear and the path that needs to be taken even clearer.
The Caldari State has allowed for the incompetence of its navy to persist for too long. It is time to shake things up and to purge the bad commanders across all of the organization. This restructuring would strengthen the Caldari State and allow Heth to enact policy in a more direct and forceful manner. Yes, clearly! I mean, let's face it, it's not like completely uprooting one's military command structure during a period of high crisis has ever caused serious problems for anyone in the past, right? That's just crazy talk. Mane 614
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Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
848
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Posted - 2013.03.27 18:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Giving Heth full control and authority over the Caldary Navy would be the greatest present you could give the Federation.
That's exactly what the CN needs more massive blunders like Caldari Prime. Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas!-á |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
16
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Posted - 2013.03.27 18:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
I can't recall the name of it, but there's a rule of logic: logical parsimony? Okkama's Razor? Something like that.
In brief, when comparing two competing theories, the one with the fewest or simplest assumptions is best.
Does it require more to assume that there is widespread corruption and malfeasance in the breadth of the State's institutions, or that Heth put our fleet in an untenable position?
So. Seriously here. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
1368
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Posted - 2013.03.27 18:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Boy we sure are looking like swell and justified folk hoping for another screw up from Heth where another few million die. Gotta stick it to the Caldari eh?
It's not like WE have any flaws or anything ever since this war started, not like we've gone from a big melting pot to a border line racist and ultranationalist Empire or something right guys?
Guys?
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
262
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Posted - 2013.03.27 19:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Fractal Muse wrote:Reeves Todako wrote:Sounds to me like everyone, Caldari Commanders included, need to take a vacation! Perhaps add a bit more Caldari Corn Paste to your diets, eh? Studies have shown it to be 34.9% more effective then competitors brands in calming the nerves and digestive systems! Caldari State Executor Tibus Heth needs to purge the Caldari Navy of its Commanders and take direct control of the Navy. This debacle is the fault of the Caldari Navy. Unfortunately, they have misrepresented themselves to the Caldari State Executor who, in his greatness of goodwill to his people, believed in them. The time is now for the Caldari State to rise up from this disaster and remove the incompetent in the Caldari Navy. First off all, there is a reason there is a chain of command and duties are delegated in the command structure: It is impossible for a single commander to micromanage entire fleets like you are suggesting. Beyond that, Heth's health seems to be failing, so I would question his ability to cope with command decisions at this time.
What you are suggesting would be utterly disastrous, and despite my low opinion of the man, I do not believe he is quite so arrogant and stupid as to try it.
Heth shares some of the blame for this incident as well. Admiral Yanala had stepped down from commanding ships and directing fleets. If she truly lost her edge, then some fault lies with the person who put her in charge of the task force in Luminaire. Beyond that, the fleet was not very well supported, and perhaps not enough ships were left with the Shiigeru initially. That's a top level blunder. Remind me, who is at the top? |
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
240
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Posted - 2013.03.28 13:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
From the various responses from outspoken Caldari "citizens" it seems that the Caldari State Executor should institute a much broader board of inquiry to conduct loyalty tests throughout the various corporations. These public displays of protestation to the great leader of the Caldari State should not be ignored.
This level of dissidence within the Caldari State is bad for business and bad for its corporations. As such, I hope that Heth uses this moment as a catalyzing moment to remove the doubt of his rule and his current state of health. Internal auditors should be given full authority to remove any and all who are publicly and even privately questioning the leadership of their legal and rightful leader.
The challenges to the Caldari State are not just with its seditious military leaders but deeper still. Heth should rally the workers and bring about real change to the State.
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Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
813
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 13:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fractal Muse wrote:From the various responses from outspoken Caldari "citizens" it seems that the Caldari State Executor should institute a much broader board of inquiry to conduct loyalty tests throughout the various corporations. These public displays of protestation to the great leader of the Caldari State should not be ignored.
This level of dissidence within the Caldari State is bad for business and bad for its corporations. As such, I hope that Heth uses this moment as a catalyzing moment to remove the doubt of his rule and his current state of health. Internal auditors should be given full authority to remove any and all who are publicly and even privately questioning the leadership of their legal and rightful leader.
The challenges to the Caldari State are not just with its seditious military leaders but deeper still. Heth should rally the workers and bring about real change to the State.
You should consider submitting an application to Executor Heth to join the CPD and become an adviser. You're obviously quite confident in your capability to dictate to him and others precisely how they should proceed and why despite none of it being any of your business or jurisdiction.
I am quite certain the Executor would give your application the time it deserves in review.
~Malcolm Khross
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Anja Suorsa
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 13:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote: I am quite certain the Executor would give your application the time it deserves in review.
You're a wicked tease. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
388
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Fractal Muse wrote:From the various responses from outspoken Caldari "citizens" it seems that the Caldari State Executor should institute a much broader board of inquiry to conduct loyalty tests throughout the various corporations. These public displays of protestation to the great leader of the Caldari State should not be ignored.
This level of dissidence within the Caldari State is bad for business and bad for its corporations. As such, I hope that Heth uses this moment as a catalyzing moment to remove the doubt of his rule and his current state of health. Internal auditors should be given full authority to remove any and all who are publicly and even privately questioning the leadership of their legal and rightful leader.
The challenges to the Caldari State are not just with its seditious military leaders but deeper still. Heth should rally the workers and bring about real change to the State.
Althought a number of protesters is concerning, I really doubt it is the case. Those, who protests, or more like, whose protests you do hear, are already capsuleers, and most of them are already dissidents and outcasts. Those, who are not... well, I think their citizenship status most probably was long ago revoked for their behaviour, provided certain levels of authority are allowed to read this media.
Heavy monitoring of citizens allows corporations to fine troublemakers almost instantly. But it is not the prosecution, that keeps citizens in line. The Executor represents the State, and the State represents all citizens, our views,our lives, our hopes and our future. So, how much foolishness a citizen must show to protest against Executor, after all what he did for us?
I believe such events still can happen, but in a State controlled media they are dealt with fast and efficient. Most probably they are peoples with very low IQ level, or siblings of top end managers, who lost positions during reforms. |
Rhiannon Dellacorte
Azure Industrial Technologies
70
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Boy we sure are looking like swell and justified folk hoping for another screw up from Heth where another few million die. Gotta stick it to the Caldari eh?
It's not like WE have any flaws or anything ever since this war started, not like we've gone from a big melting pot to a border line racist and ultranationalist Empire or something right guys?
Guys?
I don't think any of them can hear you over the sound of how awesome they think they are. All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again. |
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