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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.07.28 00:34:00 -
[31]
"Total ROF multiplier: 0.792"
Now, how did you get those numbers?
You said the extruded has a RoF reduction of 10.5%.
(1-0.105)^8 = 0.4117 RoF multiplier. Then we add skills, rapid firing 4:
0.8*0.4117 = 0.32936
OK, so the real RoF multiplier is 0.33, which means a 9 sec RoF will get lowered to about 2.97 sec.
Since
a) I don't want to do all this math to compare battleships when there are so incredibly many configs to use
b) I don't even have a battleship myself yet, I won't argue for either side anymore. |
Darkwolf
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Posted - 2003.07.28 01:01:00 -
[32]
Hey, you're right. How the heck did I do that?
Hmm. *edits wildly*
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Kaerider
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Posted - 2003.07.28 09:29:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Kaerider on 28/07/2003 09:32:27
another fact most of you seem to have forgotten is the cpu needs.
an armageddon can never fit 4 tachyons and 4 heavy beams with it's standard cpu output.
i have to use 2 photonic cpu's on my arma to boost it's output high enough to use 5 mega beams, 2 heavies and accessoirs (booster, hardeners, smartbomb, dmg mods and stuff).
besides large energy weapons need a ****** load of cap, even if you have controlled burst 4 and battleship 3 (i can run 3 1/2 mega beams appox infinite. may rise to 4 at half cap, but i'm not absolutly sure on the numbers. those are just out of my head from experience).
besides, every goddamn ship got thermal and emp hardeners fitted, which kills the dmg potential of an arma/apoc (see above calc's), where a scorp/raven has a wider range of possible damage types (same goes for minmatar ships) and a wider use of possible applications due to the higher number of med slots.
so in the end, armarr ships arent that good afterall. but i agree in the point that lvl 2 battleships never an overall rethinking, as those are usually not much better then the lvl 1 ships (comparing arma to apoc and raven to scorp), but cost a damn lot more.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.28 09:59:00 -
[34]
"but i reckon until we'll see better missile AI/speed/beefer launchers, they will be used only as support weapons."
At the moment i'd be quite happy if they just resolved the issue with missiles shooting down each other instead of designated target. It's quite ridiculous when i have 4 launchers going, and *none* of the fired missiles *ever* hits because they bump into one another on their merry way.
While am at the subject, what the hell is wrong with rockets?.. Used a 3k NPC rat for a test, had him nicely webified so he'd sit still and tried shooting from ~10k range... i could see the rockets actually hit him if i was firing single units, yet they'd never cause any damage. They'd only become effective after i closed in on the target, to about 1.5k (which i don't actually mind, it's just odd because the missile boats have targetting range bonus which would indicate they're supposed to operate from larger distances... o.O )
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dalman
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Posted - 2003.07.28 11:02:00 -
[35]
Edited by: dalman on 28/07/2003 11:04:57
First I used multi in the HMBL too.
And I used skills: medium energy 4, rapid firing 4 and surgical strike 4.
Though I do now, and hasn't stated either, the Raven can take huge amount of damage, and bringing it down is very hard.
But on the other hand it wont deal much damage either, so a 1 on 1 between a Raven and an Amarr battleship will never end with one ship not escaping.
The damage numbers was to show that. A fleet of Caldari ships will deal very little damage. Although not many ships will go down either. Most big fleet engagement would end with just some cruisers down on both sides. Using ECM ships a Caldari fleet vs Amarr fleet would end in a stalement.
But as I stated, Minmatar are much worse. No ECM, no bid damage, no good defence.
*edit*
I'm not aware of whether the modules really can fit on an Armageddon.
But with electronics lvl 5 and weapon upgrades lvl 4, the arma will fit very much. Otherwise it will have to give up 1 extruded and use a photonic CPU.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Drefsab
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Posted - 2003.07.28 15:44:00 -
[36]
The overall main problem is that CCP seam to thing having the ability to use missles is worth a lot. But sadly untill they sort them out its just not. I have been playing around with Doms and Megathrons and what do you get for all the masive extra cost between these ships? 1 turret and 1 missle or 2 missle, but you loose 1 low and one med slot, then you have to loose another low slot to a cpu booster to even get 6 turrets working properly. Its just not worth 60odd mil extra. They should at least up the cpu output on the megathron to match if not surpass the doms.
For example
6 250mm Gauss's with 7 Magnetic Vortex II's
VS
7 250mm Gauss's with 5 Megnetic Vortex II's (and one missle slot that is pointless).
Which ship do you think would win (remember that just 2 vortex II's will give a boost of over 20% RoF).
"Death Before Dishonor" |
Deiton
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Posted - 2003.07.28 15:59:00 -
[37]
Seriously we are forgetting the megathron. It is by far the worst balanced ship in the game. It isn't good in ANYTHING. has 8 high slots with 7 turrets and 2 missile slots(bla) and 4 medium and 6 lo and 2500 in drone space.
So what makes that ship unique or good in some way? NOTHING. It is horribly crappy compared to the Armageddon and yes EVEN to the dominix because of the higher drone space on the dominix. When is CCP gona do something about these damn battleships and balance them out like they did to the cruisers? My guess is never but they might be listening...
This is totally unfair and they better do something quickly cause people are starting to lose interest...
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ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.07.29 11:36:00 -
[38]
I agree that many of you are focusing way too much on theoretical damage per second stats.
The Raven has the highest shields and 6 medium slots compared the Apoc's 4 which gives you the ability to absorb way more damage then the Apoc or ECM it to hell and back there for eliminating the need for shield hardeners all together.
Also did anyone factor in the Ravens 5% missile launcher speed per level in their damage per second calculations? The Raven is a level 2 battleship so that means you get 10% faster missile launching by default.
I also agree that something needs to be done to make the Megathron more appealing. There isnĘt much that makes it stand out from the other battleships. Its basically living in the shadow of the Apoc atm. 
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dalman
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Posted - 2003.07.29 11:59:00 -
[39]
Edited by: dalman on 29/07/2003 12:00:09
"Also did anyone factor in the Ravens 5% missile launcher speed per level in their damage per second calculations? The Raven is a level 2 battleship so that means you get 10% faster missile launching by default."
Yes, that's used i my first calculation.
And that bonus is very little. It's worth half of adding an extruded heatsink.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Jack Brennan
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Posted - 2003.07.29 12:57:00 -
[40]
The Dominix with 6 highs 5 mids and 7 lows, still seems to me to be the best allround Battleship out there at the moment.. a finely tuned example with 4 neutron cannons can dish out 250 damage a shot at close range.
Taking 250 as a low average thats at least 1000 damage per volley. not forgetting you can also fit a couple of 250mm guass guns on it as well causing another 300 damage with good skills for the two.
with your 5 mid slots you can fit sheild hardeners and an afterburner or two.. with DMB stabilisers in the low slots, This ship is capable of getting under the energy weapons of an Amarr battleship.. ripping its guts out with 1300 damage (if all guns fired at once) per volley.
Just my 2 isk..
p.s Just to keep things in perspective.. I've had a neutron cannon perfect strike with wrecking damage of 592 damage on one gun!(6.24DMB using AM at 11km) dont rule out the dominix! There is life in the old war horse yet.
Jack Brennan |
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