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StrongSmartSexy
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.04.02 14:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
SehrGute wrote:edit: were did my text go?????? damit, i'll rewrite later.
Did you click post and then it loaded up the same screen with your reply gone but the quote still there? Because that happens to me if I take too long to type up my reply. If you click post and it reloads the same page and what you typed is missing, then simply press back and it'll be there again. |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
61
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Posted - 2013.04.02 17:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
I think the problem with all the battleships is that they tend to fill one role: kill all the things. Without a wide variety in slot layouts or bonuses they tend to step on each others toes. Because pirate faction ships, navy faction ships, and marauders are all in the same area with ship bonuses there's going to be one that will blow the others away.
Maybe tiericide will help, but trying to find a niche for each battleship would be a difficult task. |
StrongSmartSexy
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.04.02 17:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:I think the problem with all the battleships is that they tend to fill one role: kill all the things. Without a wide variety in slot layouts or bonuses they tend to step on each others toes. Because pirate faction ships, navy faction ships, and marauders are all in the same area with ship bonuses there's going to be one that will blow the others away.
Maybe tiericide will help, but trying to find a niche for each battleship would be a difficult task. Yeah, especially with the similarities between the Kronos and the Vindicator as both are armor blaster boats with webbing bonuses. Good luck trying to make the Kronos original beyond simply "This one is better at active tanks and the Vindi is better at buffer tanks!" |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
590
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Posted - 2013.04.02 19:40:00 -
[34] - Quote
StrongSmartSexy wrote:Yeah, especially with the similarities between the Kronos and the Vindicator as both are armor blaster boats with webbing bonuses. Good luck trying to make the Kronos original beyond simply "This one is better at active tanks and the Vindi is better at buffer tanks!"
Yeah. The original idea was that Marauders would be for PVE use. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with that, but it was probably a mistake to force a PVP weakness in the form of the weak sensor strength. So improve the electronics so PVP use is viable, then emphasise the PVE use by giving them bonuses to exploration thingies - probe strength, salvaging, can hacking, maybe even cloaking (no scan res or velocity penalty with cloak fitted?), to emphasise the ability to survive in hostile space. |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
66
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Posted - 2013.04.02 20:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Just a random thought I had, if you wanted to keep them focused on PvE you could remove the drone bay and give them the option to fit on assault launchers in the extra highs. Swap out salvage bonuses for light missile bonuses. With the changes to PvE rat AI this may give it a niche that it can live in, especially if the total damage output of pirate ships and marauders was close.
It makes sense for the vargr, not so much for the paladin and kronos. The golem would have to be investigated because people would be trying to shove powergrid mods in the lows to fit extra torpedo launchers. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
61
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Posted - 2013.04.03 13:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
Would prefer them to have a special unique highslot point defence style module for anti-drone/frigate work rather than than using a currently existing small weapon and having to balance it in a way to stop people just using a fuel rack of torps or similar. On the other hand, full rack of 100% bonus weapons, that'll make up for their lacking sensor strength :p lol |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
438
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Posted - 2013.04.03 14:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote:Would prefer them to have a special unique highslot point defence style module for anti-drone/frigate work rather than than using a currently existing small weapon and having to balance it in a way to stop people just using a fuel rack of torps or similar. On the other hand, full rack of 100% bonus weapons, that'll make up for their lacking sensor strength :p lol This idea I like. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Ager Agemo
Imperial Collective
255
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Posted - 2013.04.03 14:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Mr Floydy wrote:Would prefer them to have a special unique highslot point defence style module for anti-drone/frigate work rather than than using a currently existing small weapon and having to balance it in a way to stop people just using a fuel rack of torps or similar. On the other hand, full rack of 100% bonus weapons, that'll make up for their lacking sensor strength :p lol This idea I like.
it would give them twice DPS... given ALL the weakness and the ******* hard it would be to fit full weapon racks with their powergrids, it actually would be balanced... they would be like oversized attack battlecruisers, in short, HUGE glass cannons (quite adequate to grind down capital ships fast actually...) |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
71
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Posted - 2013.04.03 15:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Mr Floydy wrote:Would prefer them to have a special unique highslot point defence style module for anti-drone/frigate work rather than than using a currently existing small weapon and having to balance it in a way to stop people just using a fuel rack of torps or similar. On the other hand, full rack of 100% bonus weapons, that'll make up for their lacking sensor strength :p lol This idea I like. it would give them twice DPS... given ALL the weakness and the ******* hard it would be to fit full weapon racks with their powergrids, it actually would be balanced... they would be like oversized attack battlecruisers, in short, HUGE glass cannons (quite adequate to grind down capital ships fast actually...)
This is actually what I was looking at. Powergrids on Marauders tend to be very low because they only need to fit 4 battleship sized weapons, trying to fit 5 or 6 would be extremely tight with grid mods/rigs. Additionally, unbonused cruise missiles/torpedoes are terrible, especially if you didn't fit the necessary prop mod. Without drones to fall back on, tackle frigs/drones would suck really really bad in PvE. |
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
59
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Posted - 2013.04.03 15:56:00 -
[40] - Quote
I would suggest they refocus them towards pvp. Replace the role bonus with cargo bay bonus of 50% and maybe a cap capacity bonus. Perhaps geared towards more solo and small gang stronger active reps and better tracking. And buff the T2 resists there focus should be on survival and whilst having good damage application. Extra slots should have more than T1 counterparts and ofc rebalance the damage bonuses for a more normal turret setup with maybe 1utility slot. And nerf the drone capabilities with the tracking bonus its less necessary maybe a set of smalls and keep the large dronebays
Paladin remove the web bonus its out of place and replace with a tracking bonus HP bonus instead of reps its more ammarian
Golem remove TP bonus its a minmatar thing and replace with explosion radius bonus
Kronos remove web bonus and refocus towards speed and repping as to provide a bigger difference to the vindi
Vargur replace the falloff bonus its too good on bs and its conflicts with the machariel 'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium |
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Mole Guy
Xoth Inc Unclaimed.
46
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Posted - 2013.04.03 16:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
there were some good ideas in here. i dont think they need more fire power, 4 t2 x2 is damage enough. (of course, the vargur is in need of power).
1.if they need to be in hostile territory as the description implies, they need scanning bonuses.
2.sensor str needs to be better than any other bs out there, period. from a mission stand point.
3.i still like the salvage ability, so we need to keep the large cargo holds.
4. give them a bonus to salvage drones % and an extra drone bay to hold 5 salvage drones.
5.i REALLY like the idea of having the assault launchers in 1 high slot. give them 1 assault launcher and give it the x2 weap bonus so it can fend off pesky drones and frigs (or a small turret slot if its a turret based ship).
6.resists...the dang thing needs resists. the actve rep bonus is nice, but its even better when you can resist the damage to begin with. maybe the lighter ones like on the field command ship (absolution or zealot, not the damnaiton and sacrilege).
7. better scan resolution. if this were just a ship they built for massive damage and cleaning up the field, it would have better damage bonuses than a tier 3 bc or any pirate bs. it isnt, its a utility ship. needs good range and great scan res.
8.i love my web bonus on my paladin, dont do away with that. but even with it, i cant hit frigs with mega pulse.
what about a speed bonus? they could be light weight, fast striking. that could give it a little unique bonus. maybe 5% or 7.5% to burner speeds or something. they come in, destroy everything, loot the field and then burn out before anyone knows they were there.
the problem is, ccp designed them to not be "overpowered" and then went and made everything else over powered around it and when we speak of buffing them up like they should be, people freak out because they think it would be OP when in reality, what is OP anymore? there are A LOT of powerful craft out there to choose from, we need a good utility craft that can hold its own. the marauder needs to be buff (6 pack abs buff). it doesnt need more fire power, it just needs to get rid of the gimpy sensors, get some resists and a more modern bonus pack. the scan probe bonus would be nice. make it as good as a cov ops since it has more room for better equipment and its designed for "deep space operations behind enemy lines".
normally, i would be against the whole cloaking bonus idea, but the point was made that since they do survive behind enemy lines, and that got me to thinking. a unique cloaking bonus would be that they could they get a scan resolution penalty reduction (20% at marauder 1-100% at marauder 5) and the cloaking delay is removed like on a bomber (maybe 20-100% depending on marauder skill level). marauders could throw on a normal cloak, would slow to whatever the cloak says % wise, once the threat is gone, decloak and start raiding the sanctum again without having double gimped scan str. no flying cloaked, no speed bonus while cloaked, none of that black ops stuff, just the ability to disappear and then come back and continue on.
or they could gain an ability towards the micro jump drive or something. that would be a kewl new niche. a % to jump distance or reduction in power needs to they could fit a burner and mjd. or, a reduction in the time it takes to activate it, so u could mwj out, then cloak up and slow boat away. the time delay reduction would be nice. 10% per level... could make the marauder an escape artist, or ebul in pvp.
these are just ideas, no need to bash em. im not asking for anything, just throwing it out there so you guys might come up with something creative based off of them.. =) |
androch
Chillwater Ltd
43
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Posted - 2013.04.03 17:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
supernova ranger wrote:So I can finally fly Marauders but won't even buy one cause they are useless. Their role to mission and salvage is over with a noctis present and their firepower is less then that of their pirate counterparts while being just as expensive.
I'd like to see the Marauders kept in play but used more effectively where noctises can't go. I think by giving them bonuses to target spectrum breakers, +warp core stabilization, and the re-target lock time reduced for de-cloaking would be a good starting place to see them move into lowsec to do missions.
so its not enough being tanked beyond any other sub capital ship in the game with the added ability of cherry picking wrecks if youre alone? or the fact that it puts out as much dps as your favorite pirate battleships, only thing that needs a buff to make it better would be to get rid of its abyssmal scan resolution |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc Unclaimed.
46
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 19:13:00 -
[43] - Quote
androch wrote:supernova ranger wrote:So I can finally fly Marauders but won't even buy one cause they are useless. Their role to mission and salvage is over with a noctis present and their firepower is less then that of their pirate counterparts while being just as expensive.
I'd like to see the Marauders kept in play but used more effectively where noctises can't go. I think by giving them bonuses to target spectrum breakers, +warp core stabilization, and the re-target lock time reduced for de-cloaking would be a good starting place to see them move into lowsec to do missions. so its not enough being tanked beyond any other sub capital ship in the game with the added ability of cherry picking wrecks if youre alone? or the fact that it puts out as much dps as your favorite pirate battleships, only thing that needs a buff to make it better would be to get rid of its abyssmal scan resolution
bs 5, plus marauder 10x skill, it deserves some nice bonuses. its beyond a bs. i dont think it needs any more firepower personally, but it needs something else besides a small bone. and its tank isnt the best, my damnation will kick its butt. a scan res bonus will not make it any beter than a pirate bs. it has a specific role to play. it needs bonuses to fullfill it. why dont we get rid of all the bonuses and just make it a t2 shiney bs? that costs 850m, and has the firepower of a tier 3 bc. better scan res and better sensor str is a start. but its an exploration/combat ship. it needs exploration bonuses. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
438
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 19:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
Now, a few people have mentioned scanning bonuses. And I thnk they are on the right track. Here's why:
Marauders are PvE ships. Thats not really an issue. What is an issue is what PvE they are intended to be used for. If these ships are designed for use deep behind enemy lines and are meant to be self sufficient, then a modified exploration role seems ideal.
If they are behind enemy lines, they will be taking on vulnerable assets that would otherwise be hidden. They will need to use probes to find these. A large cargobay for ammo and loot is still necessary. A form of cloaking bonus would be good. It would allow the ship to be independant and survive a lot longer in hostile territory. The ships speed and it's targeting delay aren't a major issue, although I do agree about the scan resolution.
I love the idea of a 'point defense' system, although that does seem to be what drones are. The idea of using smaller weapons and having them be bonused in the same way as the large weapons is intriguing though. But I doubt it would be possible to distinguish between module sizes, so you would end up with say a Golem able to mount 5 or 6 launchers. That would be a bad idea. What about a specific module limited to Marauders, (and even a new line of smaller craft, if it pans out that way,) that does not use launcher or turret slots, but does use ammo? One that basically uses the same principles as FoF missiles, attacking the nearest viable target, but has a heavily limited range and low damage. (I may have to write this one up in a seperate thread for further discussion.)
TL:DR Marauders do not need to be mission boats, plenty of ships fill that niche. Exploration would be a perfect role for them. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc Unclaimed.
46
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 22:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
the exploration niche would deffinately be good.
now, the idea of a point blank that uses ammo but no slot? thats something to think about. i would know how to implement it nor having a restriction to allow multiple sized launchers. i know the caracal gets bonuses for small and medium missiles, but nothing is limiting the size, its player choice.
i really dont think ccp would want to spend the time to develope the code for it tho.
but, yes, thats why we have drones. webs and drones.
back to the exploration side, a bs sized ship that can scan plexes or sanctums, cloak when needed, has a large bay for loot and salvage would REALLY be nice. plus, maybe its own ammo bay so the loot isnt hampered by the ammount of ammo you havent used yet.
ok so, cov ops scan bonus moderate resist boost (maybe slightly less armor to make up for the repper/resist bonus) web bonus (for the 2/tracking and missile bonus for the other 2) cloaking bonus to scan res (maybe lock delay/scan reduction with level) large cargo/ammo hold repper bonus increase
plus the other bonus i am forgetting.
this sounds like a fun worm hole ship.
what about an rr bonus? if you are out with friends pillaging and plundering, doing what marauders do, a good rr bonus would deffinately come in handy. maybe range bonus, doesnt have to be ammount 3x range or something only marauders have...
what do ya think? |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
72
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 23:18:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mole Guy wrote:what do ya think?
I think there's a lot of ideas and it really comes down to what CCP wants to set aside for the marauders niche. It needs to do something that isn't trumped by pirate/navy battleships. But at least we tossed around a few ideas, maybe one of them will be picked up. |
Paikis
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
735
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 03:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
Let them equip a siege module! /end-troll
Seriously though, what's wrong with making them slow battleships with large tanks and high damage? Pirate BSs should all receive a speed/agility boost (to about the level of the Machariel, maybe a bit less) and they can be the fast battleships, and have the Marauders be the big, slow guns. |
Sarmatiko
1006
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 04:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
I actively fly on Kronos, Vargur and Paladin and I don't think that Marauders are in need of any significant buff.
Obsolete tractor beam bonus - only one annoying thing that should be tweaked and totally dependent from Marauder skill level.
DPS / Tank / Resists of Marauders are great (see solo Maze or lvl 5 completion on Vargur for example) They are cheaper than Pirate battleships - paying more for pirate BS you will get your small extra for extra price. They can be easily fitted with T2 modules/ASB tank decreasing possibility of suicide gank without significant impact on effectiveness.
Also I hate when people demand buffs comparing Vargur/Kronos PVE ability to Machariel or nullbear Vindicator. Machariel is just overpowered and will suffer from upcoming TE nerf (while Vargur will not). Vindicator usable only in specific fit for 0.0 anomalies and its effectiveness is limited.
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Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
440
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Posted - 2013.04.04 08:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
[quote=Mole Guy] what about an rr bonus? if you are out with friends pillaging and plundering, doing what marauders do, a good rr bonus would deffinately come in handy. maybe range bonus, doesnt have to be ammount 3x range or something only marauders have.../quote] Doesn't that kind of kill the whole 'lone wolf' concept that the ship is based on? MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
62
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Posted - 2013.04.04 10:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
Wordy Brain Fart bit:
I like the lone exploration style ideas. If you want to keep it really useful for PvE in hostile situations, but without making it a bit too annoying for surprise PvP ganks you'd need to keep the cloak delay in my opinion, although if it can't warp cloaked that would be less of an issue. I'm worried that having a cloaky Battleship might start to tread on the toes of the Black Ops ships, although it depends what CCP have in mind for those.
Could run out of highslots quickly though, 4x weapons, cloak, probelauncher, salvager, tractor beam won't all fit. But I guess with a decent sized drone bay (which I think they need) they could carry a load of salvage drones, whilst also having ECM drones for some defence against PvP. Better Sensor strength is also a must, even if it is only onpar with T1 BS.
You could end up with an absolutely epic ship for solo exploration, however it would need to be balanced so that it doesn't suddenly turn into an overpowered monster when used in a pure pvp fit (think full gank, lots of tank, cloak and neuts in the highs?) at the end of the day if you gave them enough grid to fit the largest guns, they'd be able to drop down and use heavy neuts. So really the problem comes down to the cloak, I can't see how this could be balanced in a good way overall. Although I do have one alternative idea....
No role bonus removing the cloaking speed penalty, no ability to fit covops, but a role bonus to remove the scanres bonus - The ship could then have a high sensor strength and a relatively clean sig, meaning that it would be hard to probe. So you'd have more time when working in dangerous space before people are on you, and can hide if need be (although only able to wait for them to leave) - but wouldn't have the ability to act as a Heavy scout and potentially tread on the roles of cloaky T3s / Black Ops? |
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Mole Guy
Xoth Inc Unclaimed.
47
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Posted - 2013.04.04 11:44:00 -
[51] - Quote
sounds good. as far as an rr bonus, it would defeat the lone wolf play. but the cloak thing really isnt an issue. we can fit em now. just get rid of the scan penalty. the delay doesnt matter to me. just an idea to help survivability. and they wouldnt come close to blops. not looking to go down that road.
maybe another utility slot and block the use of neuts. 4 guns/4 utility scanning, cloaking, tractor, salvage if it had bonuses to these, it would be a very useful wh or pve ship. |
StrongSmartSexy
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.04.04 11:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
Marauder's ship description was sadly a bit of an embellishment on CCP's part. "...versatility and prolonged deployment in hostile environments" and "...perfect ships to take on long trips behind enemy lines." was really just a way of hyping up the Marauder's combination of huge cargo capacity, stronger tank and ammo usage efficiency which meant they don't have to dock up as often as their T1 counterparts.
I doubt CCP is going to rebalance Marauders towards exploration roles to fulfill their original description. Also, we already have good exploration ships in the form of T3s that can do 'long trips behind enemy lines' with covert ops, scanning & interdiction nullifier subsystems.
I'm not saying that we can't or shouldn't have a battleship sized exploration ship but unless Marauders were given some significant evasive buffs such as a covert ops cloak (which would probably be overpowered), it's billion isk price tag doesn't justify the risk of attempting to take a big & slow ship into dangerous space simply for PVE or exploration aspects.
Personally, I'm hoping CCP will make Marauders more viable for PvP - the battleship-sized versions of Assault ships/Heavy assault ships. And again, changing the tractor bonus would barely impact its PVE capabilities given the existence of the Noctis and salvage drones.
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Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
56
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Posted - 2013.04.04 11:58:00 -
[53] - Quote
I really hated the fact these were designed in the first place with the notion of being 'PVE boats', particularly given the Kronos is the coolest looking Megathron hull ever, but also because this goes against the whole grain of Eve. I also despise the fact that this is the only option for a true non-Serpentis blasterboat, as it's the only one that retains actual webs....
Anyhow, this now no longer chimes with the aspiration of making PVE 'shooting activites'/fits more aligned/akin to PVP, so I really think (that's you Rise/Fozzie) they should take a long hard look at what the actual role for Marauders should be - nothing in Eve that fires a weapon should be stovepiped into 'PVE' because if you make it right from the start, the mission fits will naturally evolve (look at the evolution of incursion fits on pirate BS's).
First off, get rid of the absurdly low sensor strength. Secondly, bin the tractor bonus (salvaging mechanics need looking at seperately re: wreck ownership), then look at where these ships could actually fit into each races doctrine.
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
StrongSmartSexy
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.04.04 12:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
Jonas Sukarala wrote: Paladin remove the web bonus its out of place and replace with a tracking bonus HP bonus instead of reps its more ammarian
In terms of Pulse Laser setups, a 7.5% tracking bonus per level would leave the Paladin with worse target-tracking performance than with a 90% web but I agree that it's an odd bonus for an Amarr ship. Ideally the repair bonus for Marauders would be changed to a resist bonus which would lend themselves to buffer fits for PVP and active tanks for PVE.
Jonas Sukarala wrote: Golem remove TP bonus its a minmatar thing and replace with explosion radius bonus
Simply removing the TP bonus from the Golem because it's a Minmatar trend to have EWAR ships with TP bonuses isn't a good justification. CCP themselves have acknowledged the incongruity of Minmatar having TP bonuses when Caldari (who use missiles) benefit from them the most. I do like the idea of changing it to an explosion radius bonus though as it would free up mid slots.
Jonas Sukarala wrote: Kronos remove web bonus and refocus towards speed and repping as to provide a bigger difference to the vindi
It sucks that the Vindicator's changes a few years ago made it conflict with the Kronos, but removing the webbing ability from this Marauder for the sake of originality would hurt it's combat ability.
Jonas Sukarala wrote: Vargur replace the falloff bonus its too good on bs and its conflicts with the machariel
Why should the Marauder get nerfed by having the falloff bonus changed and not the Machariel's? The Vargur is the one that takes longer to train after all. |
StrongSmartSexy
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.04.04 12:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:I really hated the fact these were designed in the first place with the notion of being 'PVE boats', particularly given the Kronos is the coolest looking Megathron hull ever, but also because this goes against the whole grain of Eve. I also despise the fact that this is the only option for a true non-Serpentis blasterboat, as it's the only one that retains actual webs....
Anyhow, this now no longer chimes with the aspiration of making PVE 'shooting activites'/fits more aligned/akin to PVP, so I really think (that's you Rise/Fozzie) they should take a long hard look at what the actual role for Marauders should be - nothing in Eve that fires a weapon should be stovepiped into 'PVE' because if you make it right from the start, the mission fits will naturally evolve (look at the evolution of incursion fits on pirate BS's).
First off, get rid of the absurdly low sensor strength. Secondly, bin the tractor bonus (salvaging mechanics need looking at seperately re: wreck ownership), then look at where these ships could actually fit into each races doctrine.
I could not agree with you more. Even before Marauders were released, CCP always liked to drive home the fact that EVE is a PVP game first and foremost and the PVE aspect is ultimately a means to an end (isk for pew pew so to speak), but then they went ahead and released T2 Battleships and decided to make them PVE focused by giving them huge sensor strength holes.
Like you said, it goes against EVE. Ships with damage or combat bonuses should never be designed with PVE in mind. |
marVLs
109
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 13:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Yup marauders need buff, how i see it for lvl4s:
Give all bigger bonus to tractor range (80km) and make use of salvage drones (auto salvage and got bonus to salv chance so on lvl5 all of them combined have the power of T2salvager). Increase scan res. With so much skilling and price marauders should be better than any other BS for lvl4s and give more relaxing play.
Paladin: Overall is good but it needs little more cap rech and range bonus so pulse lasers could fit nicelly in lvl4s (scorch with 80km optimal)
Vargur: It's good now but mach makes it not shine so much, it could be cool if they change it to arty ship with MJD bonus (shorter reuse time) and little more dam bonus
Kronos: Vindi takes all from it, it should be rail ship but with 20% web range bonus per level and little more dam bonus
Golem: TargetPainters are pain in the... now it's the worst marauder, because of torp range and TP circus not mentioning 20rockets in launcher and reload, reload, reload... Just remove TP bonus and give torp velo bonus so javelins have around 84km on all5 without rigs. Now you can fit 2xrigors and everything gets better. Or remove TP bonus, give torp range bonus but smaller (javs to about without rigs 60km) and give him MWD bonus (a lot smaller cap consumption) It's all about those TP
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supernova ranger
EVE University Ivy League
8
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Posted - 2013.04.04 13:19:00 -
[57] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:StrongSmartSexy wrote:Yeah, especially with the similarities between the Kronos and the Vindicator as both are armor blaster boats with webbing bonuses. Good luck trying to make the Kronos original beyond simply "This one is better at active tanks and the Vindi is better at buffer tanks!" Yeah. The original idea was that Marauders would be for PVE use. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with that, but it was probably a mistake to force a PVP weakness in the form of the weak sensor strength. So improve the electronics so PVP use is viable, then emphasise the PVE use by giving them bonuses to exploration thingies - probe strength, salvaging, can hacking, maybe even cloaking (no scan res or velocity penalty with cloak fitted?), to emphasise the ability to survive in hostile space.
first time I've heard probing on a BS
I like +1 |
supernova ranger
EVE University Ivy League
8
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Posted - 2013.04.04 13:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
I don't believe the Marauders should be replacing their pirate partners in combat effectiveness. I also believe we don't need another highsec missioning boat. Far too many ships (new and old) can fill that role and a BS will be hard pressed to beat the isk effectiveness of the rattlesnake or t3's for lvl 4's.
But there are better missions/ lvl 5's, lots of exploration, and plenty of people board who are looking for targets they can try and kill in lowsec.
I believe this ship needs to be buffed in a way as such that it can, by itself, survive initial engagements following which it runs and hides.
So I say a ship intended to operate in hostile space in such a way needs the ability to: Run away: +aoe ecm and/or +warp stab Hide: +agility and/or the ability to effectively cloak in order to keep bouncing or wait out the armada over his/her head to pass by Collect its loot with ease: tractor and salvage bonuses Survive: A strong active tank with a substantial amount of base buffer Engage targets small and large: weapons with enough firepower to take down npc BS's relatively quick + ewar or small weapons to take down the smaller targets Operate for extended periods of time alone: ++cargo bay and +capacitor recharge rate to avoid the need to use cap rechargers Engage gurista rats: fix the sensor strength problem
It would also be complimented by the ability to: scan: +scan resolution and -fitting requisites for probe launchers not crush WH's: -mass use a unique module: + unique module that speeds up the pve process but reduces your ability to run and hide - your not allow to jump out of or dock in system till the end of the cool down? Something along the lines of an overdrive module or weapon with a nasty drawback to sig. radius, buffer tank, align time, etc.
Well those are just my thoughts... Hopefully these changes would make for a very challenging yet not impossible target to hunt while providing the pilot with enough isk/hr to justify to risk |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc Unclaimed.
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 14:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
i still like the idea of the MJD bonus. they can have a reduction to cut the time in 1/2 or more, or increase the distance up to like 150 or something. maybe the delay could be dropped down by 15% per level to 3 seconds, minus the 5% per level from mjd. that would give someone around 2 seconds to lock you before you blink. easy for ceptors and whatnot, but other ships start to run short on time. or like an extra 10% range per level too. when you are trying to run that blockaide, you can jump in a gate, mjd, pop out 100km-150km behind the bubble before you get locked by the interlopers and align and warp out. if yer gettin pummeled in sanctums or wh space, u can pop yer mjd and try to get out assuming yer not pointed.
make em lighter, less armor, but better resistance so the EHP is about the same but the weight is different. these should NOT be (IMO) heavy azzed bombardment boats. they should be fast, nimble, hard hitting but still be able to take a hit or 2. they should be able to locate enemies and warp to them. locate roid belts and go in and clear the belt of hostiles for the miners to follow. they shouldnt be jammed by rats very easily.
Run away: +aoe ecm and/or +warp stab Hide: +agility and/or the ability to effectively cloak in order to keep bouncing or wait out the armada over his/her head to pass by Collect its loot with ease: tractor and salvage bonuses Survive: A strong active tank with a substantial amount of base buffer Engage targets small and large: weapons with enough firepower to take down npc BS's relatively quick + ewar or small weapons to take down the smaller targets Operate for extended periods of time alone: ++cargo bay and +capacitor recharge rate to avoid the need to use cap rechargers Engage gurista rats: fix the sensor strength problem
this is REALLY close to the ship i am collecting input to help design. the mjd would help escape the cloak would definately help hide tractor/salvage bonus is nice to include the use of drones strong active tank-yes, but one doesnt need buffer if u have resists. lessen the ammount to lighten the ship for fast strikes but still have the same EHP
limit its use of weapons like neuts or whatever.
personally, i agree with strong..."Personally, I'm hoping CCP will make Marauders more viable for PvP - the battleship-sized versions of Assault ships/Heavy assault ships. And again, changing the tractor bonus would barely impact its PVE capabilities given the existence of the Noctis and salvage drones." |
Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 14:54:00 -
[60] - Quote
Didn't read all the pages but I've seen one suggestion popping up frequently
The moment you do this, the whole BS warfare will change. BS's with T2 resist line will be nigh unbreakable in a pvp environment with logistics. The only reason they are not being used en-masse for pvp is their low sensor str, and it should stand that way for a good reason.
So, please don't. |
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