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Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
24
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Posted - 2013.04.05 23:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sentries are still awesome on dedicated drone ships. Easy to choose the good damage type, delicious resist on my rattle makes lvl 4 extremely easy. The only drones i've lost since the update where to pirates.
Drones are fine, you jsut need a good boat/the skill for it. And some awareness.
I sell drones and drones accessories. |
Baggo Hammers
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.04.05 23:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
It all comes down to whether you know what you are doing or not. Most of the whines were from folks who liked to AFK. I mean c'mon it's NPC AI. |
Senator Lennon
Blazing Sun Dauntless.
0
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Posted - 2013.04.06 16:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
In my experience drones are most useful when you're in a bigger ship that can't hit frigs well, they're lifesavers for killing frigs when soloing 4's I can tell you that, and EW drones can give you jsut the extra boost you need in a pvp engagement. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
122
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Posted - 2013.04.06 16:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:the most affected are the bigger ships using lights to deal with frigates. Now they can't do that very effectively and that can be very annoying indeed.
However MJD solves pretty much all issues with battleships and non-missile bcs are quite capable of killing elite frigates with their guns.
another common workround is to force aggro on the boat. Logi or e-war of some kind seems to make this happen. Spam a tp or other e-war or rep a drone remotely and ai by all accounts will give that bs alot more attention. May be a pita to fit this for some but if it works....
for the non missiles peeps webs seems to be good. Especially for blaster gallente. Granted you want the massive dps killing big crap but if a web + high tracking combo lets you blap frigs....better than that webber living way too long ot annoy you possibly. And if the web gets you top aggor score for more cycles from the other rats...not a bad thing either.
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Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
361
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Posted - 2013.04.06 18:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
All the drone I lost since the change are drone I sent so far they were in weapon range of the enemy ship while I still wasn't. Do you expect ship to just burn toward you till they are in range while a flight of drone shoot at them? I also hear sentries can do in. Maybe use the right drone for the right job? |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
233
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Posted - 2013.04.06 18:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:The rats in that picture haven't targeted or aggressed the person taking the picture, which means they didn't "switch aggro"--this is a new wave that initially aggroed on the drones and never switched back to the player.
Yeah, don't do that. Pull in your drones before each new wave, and make sure all rats are targeting you before you launch drones, and you'll be fine.
Interestingly, I DID just have a pocket of rats completely detarget me to switch targets. There was, however, a second player in the pocket, so perhaps a factor.
@Frostys Virpio: You realise that if you're not using sentries, sending them (med/heavy) past 10km is death? What use is that??
Frankly it's a shame drone use is pigeon holed now - use sentries, or don't bother. Occasionally you might use lights for frigs, but there are much easier ways. They're just not worth the hassle - outside of sentry toting drone boats and I'm pretty sure that's the exception that proves the rule |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
76
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Posted - 2013.04.06 22:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
Just got into the dominix navy MJD sentry beastin' L4s thing and I can confirm it works pretty damn well.
the new rat AI absolutely hates everything else though and you still have to keep an eye on the sentries but the navy potato has so many damn slots you can get your optimal well over 100km with the wardens and apply enough dps to mop them up pretty effectively.
i keep a flight of hobgoblins handy to deal with any close spawning scramming elite frigates but you can pretty much shoot off with the MJD and snipe them most of the time. freelance space bum |
hellcane
Never Back Down
3
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Posted - 2013.04.07 00:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:The rats in that picture haven't targeted or aggressed the person taking the picture, which means they didn't "switch aggro"--this is a new wave that initially aggroed on the drones and never switched back to the player.
Yeah, don't do that. Pull in your drones before each new wave, and make sure all rats are targeting you before you launch drones, and you'll be fine. Ding ding ding.
This type of agro happened before the drone changes. Most people that complain about the changes are people who want to afk through missions or want to leave drones out 24/7 and pay no attention to them. |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
176
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Posted - 2013.04.07 00:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote:That explains why I see so many ratting carriers.
Why risk an expensive set of Fighters when you can use Drone Damage Amplifiers and Senties. They've given people who would otherwise leave the ships docked up or parked in a POS a reason to take them out and do stuff, thus putting them at risk. |
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2013.04.07 01:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
Well - you certainly won't have any trouble keeping your drones alive and successfuly using them in PVE, however, the only thing that used to make drones shine despite their low overall DPS was the fact noone needed to pay attention to them.
So yes - I'd consider them highly unattractive atm, but I personally don't care because I just undock them anymore (flying gunships most of the time anyway). |
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Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
361
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Posted - 2013.04.07 02:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Chris Winter wrote:The rats in that picture haven't targeted or aggressed the person taking the picture, which means they didn't "switch aggro"--this is a new wave that initially aggroed on the drones and never switched back to the player.
Yeah, don't do that. Pull in your drones before each new wave, and make sure all rats are targeting you before you launch drones, and you'll be fine. Interestingly, I DID just have a pocket of rats completely detarget me to switch targets. There was, however, a second player in the pocket, so perhaps a factor. @Frostys Virpio: You realise that if you're not using sentries, sending them (med/heavy) past 10km is death? What use is that?? Frankly it's a shame drone use is pigeon holed now - use sentries, or don't bother. Occasionally you might use lights for frigs, but there are much easier ways. They're just not worth the hassle - outside of sentry toting drone boats and I'm pretty sure that's the exception that proves the rule
Taking care of the orbitting frigs once they start to apply E-war on you? If you are shooting at a target, I am pretty sure it goes up to 30km at elast before they get auto targeted because I don't lose them at 30km. But I guess I play a different game than you do... |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
233
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Posted - 2013.04.07 07:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Chris Winter wrote:The rats in that picture haven't targeted or aggressed the person taking the picture, which means they didn't "switch aggro"--this is a new wave that initially aggroed on the drones and never switched back to the player.
Yeah, don't do that. Pull in your drones before each new wave, and make sure all rats are targeting you before you launch drones, and you'll be fine. Interestingly, I DID just have a pocket of rats completely detarget me to switch targets. There was, however, a second player in the pocket, so perhaps a factor. @Frostys Virpio: You realise that if you're not using sentries, sending them (med/heavy) past 10km is death? What use is that?? Frankly it's a shame drone use is pigeon holed now - use sentries, or don't bother. Occasionally you might use lights for frigs, but there are much easier ways. They're just not worth the hassle - outside of sentry toting drone boats and I'm pretty sure that's the exception that proves the rule Taking care of the orbitting frigs once they start to apply E-war on you? If you are shooting at a target, I am pretty sure it goes up to 30km at elast before they get auto targeted because I don't lose them at 30km. But I guess I play a different game than you do...
They're targetted at much shorter ranges too, elites will web, 10km is the most I've seen (as a rule of thumb) where you might get them back alive.
It's a no brainier to not use them for me outside the conditions I described, at ~400k a pop, a 10/20 second reload cycle is just smarter. The level of micromanagement and luck/no lag coulpled with the range/size limitations (medium/heavies lol) required to not lose them was simply not worth what little they bring to the fight. When you add in the unpredictability/randomness of target switching...again why bother? |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
49
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Posted - 2013.04.07 11:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
in light of these changes I would like CCP to bridge the gap between t1 and t2 sentries. The difference is just too large and a 20 day+ train is more than many people are willing to wait. If they either:
A: made t1 sentries better or B: reduced training time (combat drone V and drone sharpshooting V req instead of sentry drone V maybe?)
I think then the jump between "useless" standard drone boats and sentry boats will be a lot smaller. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
233
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Posted - 2013.04.07 12:23:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:in light of these changes I would like CCP to bridge the gap between t1 and t2 sentries. The difference is just too large and a 20 day+ train is more than many people are willing to wait. If they either:
A: made t1 sentries better or B: reduced training time (combat drone V and drone sharpshooting V req instead of sentry drone V maybe?)
I think then the jump between "useless" standard drone boats and sentry boats will be a lot smaller.
Faction sentries actually do really well for that. You tend not to lose sentries because of a) instant recall sitting beside them and b) their extensive HPs. |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
76
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Posted - 2013.04.07 12:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:in light of these changes I would like CCP to bridge the gap between t1 and t2 sentries. The difference is just too large and a 20 day+ train is more than many people are willing to wait. If they either:
A: made t1 sentries better or B: reduced training time (combat drone V and drone sharpshooting V req instead of sentry drone V maybe?)
I think then the jump between "useless" standard drone boats and sentry boats will be a lot smaller.
the faction sentry drones pretty much already do that. they are a little pricey though and you do not want to forget them in a mission. freelance space bum |
supernova ranger
EVE University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2013.04.08 20:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
useless to me
I don't like sitting still in a mission as on more then one occasion you have to slow boat your way to a gate
So sentries make you a sitting duck and i've had T2's die within 6 seconds of getting targeted
hvy's get shot down almost as soon as they are launched
lights usually die if they take a direct hit with their MWD's on.... enemy drones fly in circles but ours still go in a straight line, batter up!...let alone that it'll take 2 years to bring down a BS with them - even when at all 5
mediums have an average of the problems with an average of firepower
Overall: Without the heavy's, drone boats can't move and have reduced DPS and can still die when you are carefully watching them |
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall Mors ex Elementis
0
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Posted - 2013.04.09 03:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:A lot of non-drone people will tell you a lot of crap they read from each other about drones being fine as if it were the truth. Actual drone users will tell you that they're full of crap. Frigates are not all you have to worry about. Every rat on the screen can and most likely will target your drones, regardless of the size of the rat or your drones. You have been warned. Start training for a Tengu now.
ACTUAL Drone users will tell you all you have to do is pay attention. The new AI requires that you actually micro manage your Drones when before the change you jumped into pocket -> aggro'd everything with a civilian blaster -> dropped Drones then AFK'd for 20 minutes. "Man it's soo hard to pay attention to a game for more than 10 minutes, I dun wanna" is what I hear when people complain about NPC AI in relation to Drones.
Quote:Sentries still kick all kinds of ass.
^ This, get T2 Sentry Drones IMMEDIATELY! Everything dies to T2 Sentries from Frig > BC in 1-2 volleys with enough distance, (3) DDA's and ship skill lvl 5 (not all Drone boats are BS's). But even with (3) Navy Omni's your Guarde II's won't hit **** under about 11KM (at least not reliably) oh but wait for the Tiericide Domi change to add +50% tracking/Optimal at Gal BS 5!!!
What I would love to see CCP add (the Dev did talk about Drone overhaul coming soonish) is Sentry Logistics Drones. Even if the rep'd amount was slightly less than their Heavy counterparts they would be far superior as they can switch targets almost instantly. Though to be kind to the ACTUAL Logistics ships (my alt is one) I would reduce the max range of the Logi Sentries to maybe 75% of what a Large RR/Xfer can get to, at least before adding Drone Omnis. And since there are no (or probably wouldn't be) any modules for bonus to cycle time like the gang mods the Large RR's would still always be superior but then the Domi would have yet another niche role in Eve, as if it doesn't have enough hats already. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
637
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Posted - 2013.04.09 03:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
DeLindsay wrote:...But even with (3) Navy Omni's your Guarde II's won't hit **** under about 11KM (at least not reliably)... I haven't had the same experience there. 2 T2 omni's allows me to hit BS sized targets @ 5-7KM (haven't seem them really try to get any closer) and cruisers to varying degrees as close as 6-8KM. |
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall Mors ex Elementis
0
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Posted - 2013.04.09 03:29:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:DeLindsay wrote:...But even with (3) Navy Omni's your Guarde II's won't hit **** under about 11KM (at least not reliably)... I haven't had the same experience there. 2 T2 omni's allows me to hit BS sized targets @ 5-7KM (haven't seem them really try to get any closer) and cruisers to varying degrees as close as 6-8KM.
Well ofc you can hit BS's and sometimes Cruisers, but have you noticed how many misses, or very low damage numbers at that close range ike 80-130 dmg per volley? For me, at or above 11km my Guarde II's hit for FULL damage on almost every shot, on every target not moving with MWD, incl Frigs. I insta everything but the Elite Cruisers and BC's (takes 2 volleys each, rarely 3) while at ranges up to 69km with my Guardes (3 Navy Omnis). More to the point, once targets get under 12km or so, I redact the Sentries and bring out Med/Light to taste and kill what's left. I never EVER send Heavies out more than short distance anymore, unless it's the only ship left and it's a BS with a huge tank.
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Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
261
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Posted - 2013.04.09 04:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
My latest creation:
Typhoon, Mr. Phoontastic
5x t2 cruise missile launchers 3x t1 drone link
1x LMJD 1x meta 3 Signal Booster + Targeting Range Script (118 km targeting range) 1x t2 cap recharger 1x t1 omnidirectional tracking link
1x meta 4 armor rep 1x meta 4 1600m armor plate 1x t1 primary armor resist 1x t1 secondary armor resist 2x t2 drone damage amplifier 1x need to put EANM here, don't have one fitted right now
3x t1 rigor rigs
5x t1 hobs 5x t2 wardens 5x t1 salvage drones
Very tight on cpu. The game fitting window says: Drone dps: 332.1 Missile dps: 231.5 Total dps: 563.6 Not spectacular, but not too bad. Guristas will probably make me warp out a lot. The other factions should be ok. I have done AE4 and Silence the Informant, it was not quick, but it is doable. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |
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DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall Mors ex Elementis
0
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Posted - 2013.04.09 13:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
Plate + local Repper = inefficient, better for another resist mod or 2nd rep. Why do you need to target out to 118km when the rats are 40-60km in most pockets for missions? Unless you are using speed script 90% of the time, drop the SeBo and both cap rechargers for a cap booster with 800's, then use the remainder 2 slots for possibly 2 more drone omnis or 1 + 1 TP. If you're determined to use missile rigs (Cruise dmg sucks compared to even unboosted T2 sentry dmg) then I'd suggest dmg/RoF rigs, otherwise drop all those rigs for (3) Aux Nano Pumps, then your repper does quite a bit more per cycle. |
Kate Stenton
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
44
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Posted - 2013.04.09 22:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
My 2c.
I trained drones from the start since most people recommended it, so I've been using them for the whole time I've played EVE (less than a year).
The changes can be absurdly frustrating. I lost my first T2 drone in a Serp. Vigil in my Myrm a week ago. The drone was in structure by the time I collapsed the drone bay group and expanded the group in space. I had full room aggro before I deployed them, too.
I don't run missions very often but only a couple times have my sentries gotten aggro in L4's and they are easy to recall.
I ran a Sansha 4/10 in my Ishkur last night. There are 2 rooms and you get full aggro on warp-in. Obviously I'm using lights on that ship but not once did the rats switch to my drones (about 40 frigates total).
As a drone user I feel slighted since we already have to do all the things that gun/missile users do PLUS babysit the drones. I could never use "aggressive" since 1 or 2 go off and attack their own ships and/or the trigger. Every time a drone gets aggro, I lose 25% of my DPS for 15-30 seconds.
Obviously it's not as bad as some people say, since they're still being used. |
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall Mors ex Elementis
0
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Posted - 2013.04.09 23:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
Kate Stenton wrote:As a drone user I feel slighted since we already have to do all the things that gun/missile users do PLUS babysit the drones. I could never use "aggressive" since 1 or 2 go off and attack their own ships and/or the trigger. Every time a drone gets aggro, I lose 25% of my DPS for 15-30 seconds.
Or think of it this way, Drone users have to babysit our Drones that use ZERO ammo. Most missioners that use Turrets/Launchers have no sympathy for Drone users who cry about losing Drone now and again since we might lose (1) Drone at a cost of 1-2 mil every once in a while where those that use ammo spend that much in ONE LvL 4 Mission. All in all, the changed AI that causes all the fuss about Drones taking aggro is a very good thing, even at the expense of Drone loss/micro management. I've started back in 2006 (different toon) and just got back this year from a decently long break, the new AI was a pain for me at first, but once I learned how to deal with the changes it's not really that bad. Sure you lose DPS while bringing Drones in, putting them out (why I use almost exclusively Sentries) but no more so over the duration of a mission as the reloading of weapons' ammo.
I might pull my Drones in 2-4 times for an entire LvL 4 due to aggro that eats up maybe 3 minutes in total. Take an average time for a medium to long LvL 4 of 45min to 1hr and how much downtime would ANY weapon system have while reloading, it's about 3 minutes. For every completed LvL 4 that you DON'T lose any T2 Drone, you just about equaled what ammo users spend on the same LvL 4. I have lost (1) T2 Sentry, (2-3) Hob II's and (1) Hammerhead 2 since I came back, all through learning how to play against the new AI, that's not unreasonable at all. I will argue that Serpentis have a damn hardon for Drones, but I overcame that with a single Med RR (even complex ones are cheap). I just lock whichever Sentry is taking dmg and rep it, no more problem, no pulling them in. My (1) RR can keep up with around 12 NPC ships on one T2 Guarde. Granted I have no idea how bad it is for T1 Drone users who have low skills in Drone Nav & Drone Dura, so your mileage may vary.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
226
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Posted - 2013.04.10 03:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
Baggo Hammers wrote:It all comes down to whether you know what you are doing or not. Most of the whines were from folks who liked to AFK. I mean c'mon it's NPC AI.
mjd + sentries = you can still afk |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1335
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Posted - 2013.04.12 02:52:00 -
[55] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:I'm seeing what appears to be a Rattlesnake using Hobgoblin I's.
That leads me to assume low Drone skills.
That leads me to assume that you really shouldn't be in anything bigger than cruiser, let alone a Pirate Battleship...
I second what both of these guys are saying.
And you'd be completely wrong, a sensation you must be rather used to by now.
Why T1 Hobgoblins? Take another look at the picture. They're taking fire, getting hit. Do you know what the life expectancy is of a light drone is once it draws mass aggro? Probably not, since you're obviously not a drone use. Suffice it to say they die real quick, and T2s die just as fast as T1s - but they cost ten times as much.
So the question is: Why should I spend good money on what basically amounts to chaff-drones when I can toss a BPO in once a week and crank out a few hundred disposable zerglings and not have to scream at my monitor every time the AI decides to take a crap on my style?
So yeah, T1 light drones because why waste good money on cannon fodder?
As for the rest - I've switched to Navy issue for Mediums, despite the cost, because in those cases having double the hitpoints in everything actually does[/i[ make a difference in life expectancy and I can almost always get them recalled in time.
Most of the time, however, I'm just sitting around bored with my Sentries, doing my impression of an over-tanked Domi pilot (puke) and missing the days back when I was still [i]flying my drone ships and not just playing pillbox-commander.
That familiar sensation? It's you being wrong about everything. Again. Learn to like it.
Live Events are neither. |
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall Mors ex Elementis
22
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Posted - 2013.04.12 03:00:00 -
[56] - Quote
Quote:So the question is: Why should I spend good money on what basically amounts to chaff-drones when I can toss a BPO in once a week and crank out a few hundred disposable zerglings and not have to scream at my monitor every time the AI decides to take a crap on my style?
I'm not gonna lie this is actually a good tactical idea. Although I don't personally have issues with Drone aggro, or more to point losing my 10x cost T2 Drones, she still has a valid point. Hell the Goons do it all the time, send in waves of idiot alliance corps with tons of newbish players to sacrifice to the Eve gods before bringing in the "real fleet" and mopping up what's left. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
236
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
If I absolutely have to use lights, I use warrior II's, they have a hope in hell of getting back.
Rare though, as I've mentioned, its less hassle to reload and blap with cruises. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1243
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Posted - 2013.04.12 16:52:00 -
[58] - Quote
Paikis wrote:You think wrong. Drones were never useless, the players trying to AFK with them were (are) useless.
This. Drones work perfectly; it's when you release them and just ignore them that you lose them. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1337
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Posted - 2013.04.13 06:18:00 -
[59] - Quote
I've had drones get instalocked and alpha-popped two seconds after launch.
Sorry if I can't afford the amount of coke you must be snorting to consider two seconds to be "not paying attention."
Live Events are neither. |
Hoinus
Duty Free Exchange
1
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Posted - 2013.04.13 06:39:00 -
[60] - Quote
nothing shoots my drones idk what change, i mostly use sentries and as long as your also shooting something.... they never target your drones. |
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