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Havoc Zealot
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
29
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Posted - 2013.04.09 04:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have recently started to expand my small little trade empire and am looking to make an impact on a particular NPC Null region. Any tips on how to push out the current competition? |
Samroski
Games Inc.
180
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Posted - 2013.04.09 05:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
1. Undercut relentessly 2. Pod repeatedly 3. Profit Happiness is a warm gun, mama. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
488
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Posted - 2013.04.09 13:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Havoc Zealot wrote:I have recently started to expand my small little trade empire and am looking to make an impact on a particular NPC Null region. Any tips on how to push out the current competition?
When a new guy comes into Jita trying to take over, and they come again and again, I know when they lose ISK. this actually entertains me.
Dont lose ISK repeatedly is the biggest thing. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
115
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Posted - 2013.04.09 13:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
A good tip would be loss leaders..
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Stonkeep
Osmanli Empire
13
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Posted - 2013.04.09 14:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:Havoc Zealot wrote:I have recently started to expand my small little trade empire and am looking to make an impact on a particular NPC Null region. Any tips on how to push out the current competition? When a new guy comes into Jita trying to take over, and they come again and again, I know when they lose ISK. this actually entertains me. Dont lose ISK repeatedly is the biggest thing.
I think trade-hub trading and region trading differs in this case. In Jita you usually go against the top dogs and the volume of trade is huge so the loss of ISK would be quite high. However, in slower region trading the competition might not be that good of a trader(SP wise) and the volume is much much lower than that of Jita or another trade-hub.
Lowering profits low enough that your competitors are not making any ISK is a good strategy to drive them off the region. This strategy of course, would require patience, time and good amount of ISK. Not everyone patient enough to wait for this and some people just either change their tactic or move to another region.
Also, it is important to note that this strategy is not fail proof so if this strategy is not succesful "Dont lose ISK repeatedly" is a good advice. |
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
131
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Posted - 2013.04.09 14:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Or as a perversion of 'Don't lose ISK often', 'lose ISK where necessary'. If you find that that's often, you may want to revise why that is the case. |
Havoc Zealot
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
29
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Posted - 2013.04.09 18:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
I know exactly who my competition is too, and it is a pain in the ass because he sells the same items. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
533
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Posted - 2013.04.10 02:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Havoc Zealot wrote:I know exactly who my competition is too, and it is a pain in the ass because he sells the same items.
If its only 1 competitor, then you should consider yourself lucky. |
Havoc Zealot
United Brothers Of Eve Seventh Sanctum.
29
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Posted - 2013.04.10 18:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Do you recommend that I just adjust prices to kill our margins until he leaves? or continue to .01 isk eachother all day as he is in the same TZ as me. |
Halvan Zan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.04.10 19:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Havoc Zealot wrote:Do you recommend that I just adjust prices to kill our margins until he leaves? or continue to .01 isk eachother all day as he is in the same TZ as me.
Have you spoke with this other trader? Depending upon where he is at in his business and what aspirations he may share, it may be of mutual benefit to partner up. You may have to split profits, but you are doing that now anyway from the sounds of it. Not only would you be able to raise your prices considerably with less competition, you would have the benefit of getting out of the .01 game. At the same time, between the two of you perhaps your empire could expand a bit. In new products or into new territory.
Coincidentally, what region are we talking about?
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Havoc Zealot
United Brothers Of Eve Seventh Sanctum.
29
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Posted - 2013.04.10 19:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
When you say split the profits with him are you saying here you get these items and i get these?
He is trying to trip me up now by splitting orders and changing subtle numbers. |
Halvan Zan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.04.10 19:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Havoc Zealot wrote:When you say split the profits with him are you saying here you get these items and i get these?
He is trying to trip me up now by splitting orders and changing subtle numbers.
I am saying to come to an agreement of mutual benefit, in whatever form that may take. Whether that entails a price-setting agreement, a split of the market, a system-by-system split, or however else you two can come to agreement.. who knows.
Are you both station trading, hauling, industrialists, or what? If you each specialize in different areas of the flow more than the other you may benefit each other that way.
This is Eve, however, so be mindful that he may not be the most honorable of business partners. If you are worried that he may not be a stand up guy, start small. Make an agreement on 1-2 high volume items and see if you two can't manage that together to increase profits for both of you. If that works and you find working with one another to be benefiicial, expand.
If that fails to work you can always go with brute force.
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Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
255
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Posted - 2013.04.10 19:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Havoc Zealot wrote:When you say split the profits with him are you saying here you get these items and i get these?
He is trying to trip me up now by splitting orders and changing subtle numbers. Blow up his ship and pod him.
Find out how he is moving his goods to the system and take him out.
In terms of trade tactics - kill him. Destroy his ISK.
Treat ISK as health. Take a loss to deliver a killing blow.
If you constantly undercut him to the point of it being unprofitable for him to trade (and for you) he will either leave or buy up all of your stock and relist... ;) but, if you have more stock in reserve you can then immediately relist below his new listing price. You can repeat this cycle over and over until he or you runs out of ISK. You could do the opposite to him, undercut and undercut and undercut and then buy up all of his orders and relist.
There are so many options!
Welcome to the wonderful world of trader PvP.
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Havoc Zealot
United Brothers Of Eve Seventh Sanctum.
29
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think i am going to have to go with the above PVP |
Halvan Zan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Havoc Zealot wrote:I think i am going to have to go with the above PVP
Good luck. The first and foremost step in any pvp, market or otherwise, is to know your opponent. Do not understimate their bankroll, their allies, or their use of alts to manipulate the situation.
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Kara Books
Deal with IT.
533
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Posted - 2013.04.10 23:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
If its just one competitor, you really are better off exhausting all options before moving to plan B, which is Griefing/brute force takeover.
if its more then 2 people going at it for regional, then I hope you are satisfied with 10% margins, as in 10B isk turns into 1B isk profit, quite a bit off from 40% which 2 people can share (20% each sorta) |
Havoc Zealot
United Brothers Of Eve Seventh Sanctum.
29
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Posted - 2013.04.11 01:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thanks for all of the input guys, helps a lot |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
534
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Posted - 2013.04.11 06:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Havoc Zealot wrote:Thanks for all of the input guys, helps a lot
You never answered, what region. |
Havoc Zealot
United Brothers Of Eve Seventh Sanctum.
29
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Posted - 2013.04.11 18:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
no I didn't because my margins in other stations of the region are pretty awesome :D |
Halvan Zan
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2013.04.11 22:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Oh come on, would anyone reading these forums really be so cruel? |
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Darvaleth Sigma
215
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Posted - 2013.04.12 15:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Halvan Zan wrote:Oh come on, would anyone reading these forums really be so cruel?
*slowly raises hand* Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life! |
El 1974
Green Visstick High Green Rhino
82
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Posted - 2013.04.13 18:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
I have a somewhat similar question. I have managed to more or less monopolize the trade on a few items in a single station. I build stuff and sell it for 10% profit. Nobody else bothers to sell 'my items' in 'my station' for only 10% profit, which allows me to make a nice profit for little work and with zero competition. Except there is one guy occassionally buying my stuff and then relisting it at 10x cost price. When I put more items up for sale, he starts undercutting me. I keep a small stock so the guy rarely manages to sell even one item at 10x cost price and thus is moslty losing money, but he's doing it with many items on the market, so I asume he doesn't even notice that he is losing money manipulating 'my' item's prices. If I simply list more items at my usual price he'll be unlikely to change his modus operandi. Sometimes he sells a few items at 10x the usual price and makes a nice profit. The main problem is that whenever he does that there is a chance one of my competitors will notice an opportunity and enter the market as well. It took me more than a year to drive out my competition. My current strategy is driving the price down to make him suffer losses, but this cuts down my profit as well. And the guy is stubborn and apparantly successfull enough with other items to keep trying. Maybe I should just send him a list of items I have on stock, telling him he'll lose money trying to manipulate the price of those items. But I'm reluctant to make him any wiser. Perhaps one of you has a good tip. Killing him is not an option. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
432
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Posted - 2013.04.13 20:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
... cheerfully scoops the broken dreams and wasted ISK of others... again... and again... and twice on Sundays... and once more for the Ol' Gaffer...
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Santiago Azurant
Trojan Legion Fidelas Constans
0
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Posted - 2013.04.17 08:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
If its in an NPC station the solution is simple. Start putting those prices up with 30-40% profit. If he buys it all and relists, happy times for you, rinse and repeat. Either he is going to give you a nice chunk of isk or eventually stop trading those items.
And ummm which station?
El 1974 wrote:I have a somewhat similar question. I have managed to more or less monopolize the trade on a few items in a single station. I build stuff and sell it for 10% profit. Nobody else bothers to sell 'my items' in 'my station' for only 10% profit, which allows me to make a nice profit for little work and with zero competition. Except there is one guy occassionally buying my stuff and then relisting it at 10x cost price. When I put more items up for sale, he starts undercutting me. I keep a small stock so the guy rarely manages to sell even one item at 10x cost price and thus is moslty losing money, but he's doing it with many items on the market, so I asume he doesn't even notice that he is losing money manipulating 'my' item's prices. If I simply list more items at my usual price he'll be unlikely to change his modus operandi. Sometimes he sells a few items at 10x the usual price and makes a nice profit. The main problem is that whenever he does that there is a chance one of my competitors will notice an opportunity and enter the market as well. It took me more than a year to drive out my competition. My current strategy is driving the price down to make him suffer losses, but this cuts down my profit as well. And the guy is stubborn and apparantly successfull enough with other items to keep trying. Maybe I should just send him a list of items I have on stock, telling him he'll lose money trying to manipulate the price of those items. But I'm reluctant to make him any wiser. Perhaps one of you has a good tip. Killing him is not an option.
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