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Maximus Hashur
n.Die The Periphery
31
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Posted - 2013.04.09 14:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why use these if they take up cap? I thought at first that they were an armor equivalent of an ASB. I just started trying a few fits, and realized they use cap.
Why bother with them at all? Looked up...saw this F***ING clown dropping like a rock.-á Woke up in Vylade wondering what just happened!!! |
Nihi Lismus
Chaos From Order Manifest Destiny.
153
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Posted - 2013.04.09 14:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
at first: CCP allways said, that the AAR never should be the equicalent of an ASB. It should be - and it is - different.
Why to use one? a good amount of bonus rep in some hot sitaution? |
Nalha Saldana
Sickology
705
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Posted - 2013.04.09 14:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Its awesome to make fits like the triple rep myrm or active armor frigates. Its not very useful in pve because its not very cheap to run and you cant run 2. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
50
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Posted - 2013.04.09 15:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
good for burst tanking in small scale pvp |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
835
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Posted - 2013.04.09 16:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
the 7 slow slot hyperion with dual reps and one AAR is going to be awwwwwwwwsome.
a maelstrom only with tackle! http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Klown Walk
Fat People Lag IRL
206
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Posted - 2013.04.09 17:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
I have a vexor fit that im gonna try with a single AAR. Tanks between 760-1000 dps for about a min if you perma run it. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
919
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Posted - 2013.04.09 18:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Klown Walk wrote:I have a vexor fit that im gonna try with a single AAR. Tanks between 760-1000 dps for about a min if you perma run it. blueballing gate camps 4tw.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
147
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Posted - 2013.04.09 20:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
They're good for repairing far more than a normal armor repairer can. Until it runs out of charges. Then back to normal. I wear my sunglasses at night. |
Tub Chil
Last Men Standing
47
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Posted - 2013.04.09 20:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
if incoming DPS is not high enough to pop you quickly, then: small AAR + aux rigs give you same armor as 400mm plate Medium AAR + aux rigs give same armor as 1600mm plate
it uses cap, but is a lot easier to fit, also does not slow you down.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
942
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Posted - 2013.04.09 21:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:Its awesome to make fits like the triple rep myrm or active armor frigates. Its not very useful in pve because its not very cheap to run and you cant run 2.
How does XtraLarge ASB compare to Large AAR on armor bonused Myrm? XL ASB reps more, 'cause they fit, Large AAR don't rep, cause they don't fit. How does XL ASB compare to medium AAR on armor bonused Myrm? XL ASB reps more, cause they're capless, medium AAR don't rep, cause they cap out.
Nihi Lismus wrote:at first: CCP allways said, that the AAR never should be the equicalent of an ASB. It should be - and it is - different.
Yeah, different, as in one must be good while the other suck. If they're both good, they'd be the same. Can't have that. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
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Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
361
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Posted - 2013.04.09 21:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Not another oooo armour your so sucky thread!
They are different. Get over it!
The Small AAR's are awesome for frig pvp. And I can imagine that using the mediums as part of a dual/tripple rep setup would be just as awesome.
Also with the active armour rig changes and plate/skill changes armour ships can be quite fast as well. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
942
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Posted - 2013.04.09 21:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Not another oooo armour your so sucky thread!
They are different. Get over it!
The Small AAR's are awesome for frig pvp. And I can imagine that using the mediums as part of a dual/tripple rep setup would be just as awesome.
Also with the active armour rig changes and plate/skill changes armour ships can be quite fast as well.
Indeed, they suck, thus different. And you're supposed to use medium AARs, I mean, ASBs, on frigs. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
50
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Posted - 2013.04.09 21:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
oh look, dude ran out of cap charges. Very dead now.
Can I run out of paste? Only if im poor. |
Hakaimono
Stillwater Corporation
106
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Posted - 2013.04.09 22:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
All we need now is an AHB that uses duct tape. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
905
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 00:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:the 7 slow slot hyperion with dual reps and one AAR is going to be awwwwwwwwsome.
a maelstrom only with tackle!
sorry to burst your bubble but you can only fit one. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Nalha Saldana
Sickology
706
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 01:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
The big strength of AAR vs ASB is free mids and more cycles, AAR lasts a lot longer. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
363
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Posted - 2013.04.10 01:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:Not another oooo armour your so sucky thread!
They are different. Get over it!
The Small AAR's are awesome for frig pvp. And I can imagine that using the mediums as part of a dual/tripple rep setup would be just as awesome.
Also with the active armour rig changes and plate/skill changes armour ships can be quite fast as well. Indeed, they suck, thus different. And you're supposed to use medium AARs, I mean, ASBs, on frigs.
Bah!
People who insist armour tanking sucks are just closed minded and have no idea how to fly armour boats!
ASB's....now they suck big time. bloody useless to have a tank for 20 odd seconds then nothing! whoop dee doo they are cap independent....big deal. ASB's (unless boosted to hell and back) are crap for frig fights! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
50
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Posted - 2013.04.10 01:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:the 7 slow slot hyperion with dual reps and one AAR is going to be awwwwwwwwsome.
a maelstrom only with tackle! sorry to burst your bubble but you can only fit one.
dual reps and ONE AAR reading comprehension ftw. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
944
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Posted - 2013.04.10 04:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:oh look, dude ran out of cap charges. Very dead now.
Can I run out of paste? Only if im poor.
You run out of cap before out of paste. You will be both poor and dead. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
55
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Posted - 2013.04.10 04:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:oh look, dude ran out of cap charges. Very dead now.
Can I run out of paste? Only if im poor. You run out of cap before out of paste. You will be both poor and dead.
You can actually make AAR fits cap stable unlike ASBs without cap charges. |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1650
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Posted - 2013.04.10 04:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
AARs are basially ASBs with additional penalties. Since armor can not have nice things. a eve-style bounty system (done)-á dust boarding parties You fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Maximus Hashur
n.Die The Periphery
31
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Posted - 2013.04.10 13:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Am i reading the armor repair amount on the Small AAR correct? Is it only 45 per cycle? EFT said it was around 140 or something.
Can anyone confirm what the cycle repair rate is from actual experience? Looked up...saw this F***ING clown dropping like a rock.-á Woke up in Vylade wondering what just happened!!! |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
56
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Posted - 2013.04.10 13:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
need to load nanite paste into it for ihgher reps |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1651
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Posted - 2013.04.10 14:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Maximus Hashur wrote:Am i reading the armor repair amount on the Small AAR correct? Is it only 45 per cycle? EFT said it was around 140 or something.
Can anyone confirm what the cycle repair rate is from actual experience? 45 without paste and 3x45 with paste for 8 cycles max
a eve-style bounty system (done)-á dust boarding parties You fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Stonkeep
Osmanli Empire
14
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Posted - 2013.04.10 16:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
AAR seems to be the poor mans deadspace armor repairer. It does the same thing as some of the deadspace modules for far much cheaper price.
Large AAR = 1050 rep every 15 sec - costs 600k Centus B-Type AR = 1080 rep every 15 sec - costs 280mil.
Also, smaller modules seem to be punished more than the bigger ones. Small AAR will run out of charges after 7 cycles, which comes to about 47sec max active time(without any skills). Whereas a large one can run pretty long time(cap permitted).
ASB seems still better with being able to use more than 1, no cap usage and more rep tho I do not think CCP intended for these 2 modules to compete each other. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2489
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
AAR is armor tanking 1.5, doesn't save the hole scene, but offers some improvements.
On frigs it works, just like T2 reppers (and even T1) always worked, even without any bonuses.
On medium size, the biggest problem area it still needs some work.
+ it's a clear improvement on plate+repper fits, works especially well with a reactive armor hardener on T2 hulls in solo/small gang pvp. Plate+RAH allow enough buffer to carry you over the reload. Add Legion links, and you'll get over 2000 hps tank against antimatter or kinetic missiles on an Oneiros.
+ it improves PVE Domi tank enough to make soloing C3 anoms as fast as a Tengu.
- it is expensive to use
- it does not save T1 armor tanking ships like Myrmidon, which still don't rep enough
- it certainly does not make active armor viable on non-bonused T1 ships
- you die just as easily to neuts as before
- it uses same amount of cap regardless of it's rep amount
Mild buff to all medium and large reppers, say 7-10% rep amount and as much decrease in cap usage, AARs included would balance things. I'd also shorten cap booster reload times by as much as 50% to reduce the need to fit multiple boosters.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
115
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Since armor shouldn't equal shields can we get an active layering mod to increase our buffer? (high slot mod)
Edit: damn it Dust, I meant a mid. |
Ark Destroyer
Neutral Talent
284
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Posted - 2013.04.10 19:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Allot of you just need to broaden your options for using an AAR.
Think of this scenario: you have a full EHP battleship like say a navy megathron, tons of EHP, good resists, yadda yadda.
Let's pretend that ship is fighting a second one, only the 2nd one dropped a plate for a large AAR.
navy mega 2: Has abit less armor, but can run the AAR while fighting for all cycles, have it reload while the EHP holds, and repair again.
So in this fight the 2nd navy mega over time will actually have a larger buffer because it can rep (rather well) for each cycle/reload, while having its buffer still hold out over the 60 second reload. This makes repping the buffer much more cap efficient.
To reiterate:
AAR's can be used on large buffer ships to increase the overall armor your enemy needs to chew threw, by surviving for the 60 second reload. This has held true in a few situations, it effectively gives you an even large armor buffer, if the buffer is large enough to survive at least 60 seconds, which in most small/medium gang pvp is common.
It also works well as some people have mentioned in junction with normal armor repairers. For example you have a 3 rep ship, you can run your AAR first, giving the most efficient armor repairing and another if needed. Once the AAR runs out, you can simply use your 3rd rep to hold while it reloads. Than the AAR is reloading, use it + another if needed, makes a more efficient and stronger armor tank overall. ASB's can't do this tactic very well because if you wanted to do it, you would need the ASB, another booster, and a cap injector as well to run the other booster. ASB'S you pretty much run strong till the cap charges/your cap runs out, than you blow up. AAR'S you have a better chance at outlasting in junction with another rep/2reps or a large enough buffer to survive the initial 60 second reload.
Neutral Talent CEO Specializing in "complete" super-capital packages
Complete supercapital packages |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
547
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Posted - 2013.04.10 20:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
I love the AAR. It is so good I have switched my mision typhoon from shields back to armor. The boosted rep amount is just huge. tool tips do not show the boosted amount, only the amount the rep does without the boost. i.e. no charges. multiply that by three and you basically got a dual rep for the cap and slot cost of a single rep. You don't need to waste slots on boost amps as the armor rep boosters are rigs. With a large AAR and two nano pumps I get a base rep of 585hp. loaded with nanite paste that becomes 1755hp per cycle.
I can see why they did not let you fit two of these to a ship. Ships that had viable dual large reps before would then have the equivalent of quad rep with the same fitting costs. 3510 armor rep not even maxed out? That would be way OP.
The only down side is the cost of the Nanite paste, which I now make myself, from my own PI products. I sell way more than I use, but at least I do not have to buy it. I know the opportunity cost is the same if I make it myself, rather than buy it. But really it is not. nanite paste is way over priced. 1 gel matrix biopaste + 1 Data chip + 4 nanites equals 10 nanite repair paste. I am making more profit off nanite repair paste than I ever did off fuel blocks. I am still making fuel blocks to run my tower, just cut back production a bit to add nanite paste into the mix.
Cap charges used by the ASB may be cheap but you can not carry many. Every ship fit I use an ASB on has a full cargohold of cap boosters. Nanite paste I carry a stack of 500, and it still does not take up much of my cargo hold.
For anyone who armor tanks and wishes they could fit a dual large rep on their ship, but can not without dropping something else they want. Well this is the solution. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2495
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 07:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
It's only 1.6x T2 repper, not equal to dual rep.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
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