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Dark Lightstrong
Asset Reclamation Services LLC
10
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Posted - 2013.04.10 23:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello!
Just today I did my first L4 and my fit is like this:
[Raven, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II
5a Prototype Shield Support I X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Thermic Dissipation Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
And my corpmate us using this fit like this:
[Raven, 2 asb] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor I Co-Processor I Damage Control II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 EM Ward Field II EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I [empty high slot]
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
(note that he is doing missions in amarr space and I am doing them in caldari space, therefore different hardeners)
Well, my question is, am I missing something? Did I overlook something significant? Do I not need those rigs or a target painter for more damage applied? I was told that using a target painter is not worth it (by a veteran L4 runner that was/is doing L4s for years) |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
58
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Posted - 2013.04.11 00:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
2 rigors 1 flare
painters are definitely worth it for a raven |
SuburbanFatCat IV
Krystal Red
2
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Posted - 2013.04.11 00:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not using painters is just plain stupid with any missile mission boat. They help when you need to escape from those elite scram frigs. |
Charlie Jacobson
67
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Posted - 2013.04.11 00:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Your corpmate's fit is way overtanked for L4s and will kill slowly. Yours will do a lot more damage, but the tank leaves little wiggleroom for mistakes. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
262
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Posted - 2013.04.11 01:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't use tp either. Been doing alright. My opinion on the topic, tp is not a requirement.
New Setup 1 is alright. I think you will get hurt in the missions that drop you on top of the rats. If you get in trouble, release the drones and when scram rats go after drones, warp out.
2 asb seems like a beefier tank. I don't use asb so I can not tell how much beefier the tank is. But you pay for it with less dps. So you might be staying fighting longer, but doing less dps, so you might end up warping out anyway. I can not tell if this trade off is worth it because I don't fly that kind of fit.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |
Dark Lightstrong
Asset Reclamation Services LLC
10
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Posted - 2013.04.11 01:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:I don't use tp either. Been doing alright. My opinion on the topic, tp is not a requirement.
New Setup 1 is alright. I think you will get hurt in the missions that drop you on top of the rats. If you get in trouble, release the drones and when scram rats go after drones, warp out.
2 asb seems like a beefier tank. I don't use asb so I can not tell how much beefier the tank is. But you pay for it with less dps. So you might be staying fighting longer, but doing less dps, so you might end up warping out anyway. I can not tell if this trade off is worth it because I don't fly that kind of fit.
What kind of fit are you using then? |
Hae Sung
Da Learnin Corp
25
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Posted - 2013.04.11 02:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Target painter isn't a requirement, but it does help boost applied damage considerably when using missiles.
What people tend to overlook is that the damage formula for missiles takes the lowest of 3 values, one of which is the product of the ratios of the sig size of you target to expl radius of missiles (directly influenced by target painters) and the explosions velocity of your missile to the velocity of your target.
As even cruiser sized rats tend to outpace the explosion velocity of your missiles you can mitigate this effect by changing the first ratio.
Take a look at the link below if you want to wrap your head around it.
Source:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage
TL;DR - Target Painters Help |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
262
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Posted - 2013.04.11 02:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dark Lightstrong wrote:Caleidascope wrote:I don't use tp either. Been doing alright. My opinion on the topic, tp is not a requirement.
New Setup 1 is alright. I think you will get hurt in the missions that drop you on top of the rats. If you get in trouble, release the drones and when scram rats go after drones, warp out.
2 asb seems like a beefier tank. I don't use asb so I can not tell how much beefier the tank is. But you pay for it with less dps. So you might be staying fighting longer, but doing less dps, so you might end up warping out anyway. I can not tell if this trade off is worth it because I don't fly that kind of fit.
What kind of fit are you using then? My old Raven was pretty close to your New Setup 1, just different strategy.
The current one is like this:
6x t2 cruise missile launchers
1x t2 x-large shield booster 1x LMJD 2x t2 shield boost amps 2x t1 signal boosters with Targeting Range scripts
4x t2 bcu 1x t2 co-processor
Drones to taste. I am doing t1 hobs and a flight of salvage drones on my other ships. You could stick sentries, that would give you over 100 dps.
2x t1 rigor rigs 1x t1 ccc rig I think the rigs are left over from an older fit.
Game says I got 486.7 dps for cruise missiles, 75 dps for t1 hobs, 561.7 dps total.
Not a great fit, but with LMJD I got the ability to get out of trouble, which is always a good thing. I know I got a lot of t2 mods on it, with t1 modes you could probably fit a drone link.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
180
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Posted - 2013.04.11 03:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
New Setup 1 looks good, if a bit heavy on tank. The 2asb fit is just way over tanked with not enough gank for my liking. Guristas are one of the easiest factions to tank as they mainly deal kinetic with a little bit of thermal. I would drop the DC and add a Co-Processor II so you can add a tractor beam, you don't have a prop mod so it will save you a ton of time slowboating to wrecks to scoop mission items. You will also be able to fit a variety of other item in the other utility high, a few that come to mind are salvager, drone link, cloak or a remote armor rep for your drones when they need it.
You should work on getting Guided Missile Precision and Target Navigation Prediction to 4 as soon as you can, if you haven't already, and then to 5 when you have all the other missile support skills to at least 4. The missile implants for slot 8 and 9 will help out as well as they boost those skills. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
60
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Posted - 2013.04.11 09:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
That second fitting is just terrible.
Resistance rigs do almost nothing due to diminishing returns and are unnecessary in the first place (ship has >1k tank with only one ASB running vs sansha without them).
Drone link augmentor is good with sentries and terrible with everything else because you don't want your drones far away any more with the new AI. It's not necessary either, as the frigs will come to you.
IF running 2 ASBs is the goal, CPU should be generated from rigs instead of low slots - especially since the rig slots are not used sensibly anyway.
If your mate really insists on running with 2 ASBs, i'd change the setup to something like this:
[Raven, 2 asb] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
At least it has some damage application with 2 more BCS, rigor rig and painter and still > 750 hp/s with the ASBs running alternated. |
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Velarra
207
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Posted - 2013.04.11 13:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Following by the theme suggested by Chi'Nane T'Kal you could eventually go:
[Raven, 2 asb]
Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Internal Force Field Array I
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot]
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1 Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
926
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Posted - 2013.04.11 18:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Following by the theme suggested by Chi'Nane T'Kal you could eventually go:
[Raven, 2 asb]
Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Internal Force Field Array I
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot]
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1 Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2
the raven and its CPU problems
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1707
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Posted - 2013.04.11 21:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
* You don't need a DCU (I never used one). * A Signal Amplifier is quite handy to make use of cruise missile range. * Definitely 2x Rigor and 1x Flare rigs * CN or DG XL shield booster + Heavy Cap Booster II (build your own cap charges from reprocessed mission junk). * 100MN Afterburner to make those long trips between gates, reduce incoming dmg, and kite all but Angels.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=394780#post394780
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Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
64
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 00:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
oh i like the sig amp idea. 250km range and you cant even use half of it XD
wish they changed the bonus to explosion radius or velocity. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
62
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Posted - 2013.04.12 09:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Following by the theme suggested by Chi'Nane T'Kal [...]
You do me too much credit, I simply wanted to - somewhat - fix the posted fitting without abolishing the dual ASB theme it already had.
Tsukino Stareine wrote: wish they changed the bonus to explosion radius or velocity.
Well, they did. It's called 'Typhoon' in the summer expansion :). |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dark Lightstrong wrote:Hello!
Just today I did my first L4 and my fit is like this:
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
(note that he is doing missions in amarr space and I am doing them in caldari space, therefore different hardeners)
Well, my question is, am I missing something? Did I overlook something significant? Do I not need those rigs or a target painter for more damage applied? I was told that using a target painter is not worth it (by a veteran L4 runner that was/is doing L4s for years) Cruise missile have issues applying damage to targets due to their large explosion radius and the slow explosion velocity. There are two schools of thought on how to address this issue 3 rigors or 2 rigors and 1 flare... neither is wrong, but putting anything else in your rigs slots is wrong.
You need your rigs to offset Cruise Missile issues... anything other than a rigor or flare doesn't help.
Depending on your skills and rigs, a Target Painter might not help with applying damage to Battleships or even Battlecruisers, but it will help will smaller ships. Rigors decrease the size of the missiles explosion radius, while a target painter increase the size of a ship signature. Signature/Explosion Radius. The larger the target signature radius and/or the smaller the missiles explosion radius the better.
My opinion.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1709
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:oh i like the sig amp idea. 250km range and you cant even use half of it XD
wish they changed the bonus to explosion radius or velocity. You really should try it before knocking it.
Example, I keep at 105 km where I can usually turn-off my hardeners. Targeting range is 121.87 km
I tried using a MJD, and it works too, but I dropped the cap booster to fit it, which I wouldn't recommend to people that don't know what they are doing.
A faction shield booster should be a priority, so one can drop the co-pro.
[Raven, Standard vs. Guristas] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Signal Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 X-Large Shield Booster II 100MN Afterburner II
[empty high slot] Small Tractor Beam II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 |
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