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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Sarmatiko
1028
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Posted - 2013.04.12 13:15:00 -
[91] - Quote
Why would anyone do Lvl 4 missions in lowsec? It's easier to make low SP FW alt and farm LP without any serious risk (like already many farmers do). This will not increase tasty carebear traffic for low sec pirates - people just move into 0.0 under renter's intel channel protection (safest place in EVE). Others will just unsubscribe and this will end well for CCP business.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
530
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Posted - 2013.04.12 13:18:00 -
[92] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:
Still, in my opinion, missions in their current state serve no other function than establishing a culture of compulsively hoarding carebears.
Which are no worse than killboard hoarders, or null sec system hoarders, or moon hoarders. Their subscription, their fun.
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Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
426
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Posted - 2013.04.12 13:31:00 -
[93] - Quote
So long as moon mining gets moved to include High Sec, sure... move the level 4 missions.
Might as well take the risk out of moon mining if extra ganking risk is going to be added to doing Level 4's.
Because, let's be honest... .moving level 4's to Low or Null is all about giving bored Null Seccers more to shoot at... that's what they will tell you. But eventually it would just create more fat and cuddly Nullbears ?
Balance, and all that... not that there's any risk in moon mining these days.... who the Hell wants the Sov Grind to claim any moon, nevermind a valuable one.
Should I get another can of gas ?
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
359
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Posted - 2013.04.12 13:39:00 -
[94] - Quote
Been discussed before as mentioned and I will give the same answer I always give.
Level four missions are popular because outside of HighSec Incursions they're the best reliable ISK/H in HighSec. Anomalies in NullSec (even crappy NullSec) still pay you more money, the issue with them is NullSec has people interupting your cash flow. Making L4 Missions LowSec only will just make them something only a few people do and penalise those who live in Empire and need a good steady income. No one is going to move to LowSec for L4 missions because the risk isn't worth the rewards, until they make it so you can run a L4 mission AND fend off the 12 pirates which want to gank you it's not going to work. LowSec faces the simple issue that there is no real way to police it and make it safe for you corporation or alliance to run missions there without having superior numbers online at all times and knowing you can always be hot dropped.
If you're worried about HighSec being too valuable look at ways to make other areas more appealing without harming the income of those who want to live in HighSec. No perfect refining in HighSec, bigger taxes, things which don't outright stop people making ISK or enjoying the game but make the idea of a move to LowSec or NullSec more appealing (though no one eve wants to live in LowSec for PVE) Ideas like this can even be ties into the FW system to make taxes and refining dynamic based on who is winning the war, Caldari start to lose so the Stations take more of your minerals to cover the demand for more war assets. Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |
Mei Sui
Justified Chaos
5
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Posted - 2013.04.12 13:42:00 -
[95] - Quote
There are some good comments in the thread, so IGÇÖll try and address them. IGÇÖm paraphrasing but IGÇÖll try my best to summarize.
1. GÇ£Pfft, theyGÇÖll just move to level 3GÇÖsGÇ¥: And they are more than welcome to do so. But consider the Isk source coming from missions. They essentially come from 3 areas: Bounties/Tags, Mission Reward itself and Salvage. Put together you can get approximately (guessing here) about 10M isk per hour. Level 3GÇÖs on the other hand IGÇÖm going to guess will be about 1/3 to -+ of this and as one of the previous posters pointed out, itGÇÖs all about ISK per hour versus relative safety. If the mission runners want to stay in the safety of high sec, they should not be rewarded by outsized gains no matter the downstream benefits to fund PvP, etc.
2.GÇ£YouGÇÖll feed us to Evil Pirates!!!GÇ¥ : Pirates are the primary risk factor in lowsec, no doubt. But make no mistake; they are just as important part to the EVE Universe as mission runners. And while yes you will have to put your gold plated Raven at risk by moving into low-sec that is a choice you make for the rewards you want. Keep an eye on local, make intel channels, join corporations, stay aligned to warp outGÇÖs and pay attention! What scares people I think is the fact theyGÇÖll have to actually start paying attention and canGÇÖt use missions (as much) as an AFK ATM machine. (Level 5GÇÖs on the other hand, were designed for groups so they are not quite the same as level 4GÇÖs which are the highest tier that can be soloGÇÖd)
Another factor that wasnGÇÖt mentioned, but one I thought about while driving to work, was the fact that this could also increase the risk, but to the pirates. While the image of feeding plump mission runners to pirates is an enticing one, donGÇÖt forget that pirates will attract another kind of player and that is the bounty hunter. While lambs attract wolves, wolves attract hunters looking for pelts. Not ALL of those RavenGÇÖs will be as helpless as they appear.
3. GÇ£CCP will not risk the wrath of the carebearsGÇ¥: CCP has made wide scale mission running adjustments when it was adversely affecting the economy. The example that comes to mind was the simultaneous removal of Drone minerals and T1 loot that was crashing the mineral market. At that time a tier 1 battleship was going around for 60M, a Tier 2, 85M and Tier 3, 120M. This essentially took out the dedicated miner as a worthwhile profession due to the fact that you had an unlimited source of minerals that was not constrained due to depletion. You could just run missions ad infinitum. Now those prices have increased anywhere from 50-100% due to that source being shut off and the mineral market now being more closely tied to the available ores in the area and not just mission loot. This affected every mission runner and cut down their available profits. Not a huge drop, but a noticeable one never-the-less.
Anyways, keep the flames coming! :) |
Jantunen the Infernal
O C C U P Y
103
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Posted - 2013.04.12 13:54:00 -
[96] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. Which would be a good thing. Then all the carebears would stick with level 3s in highsec, making less isk, but the people who would take the risk of traveling to lowsec would earn more isk. Risk vs. reward and all that. Of course it'll never happen due to CCPs new pro-carebear stance, but it's always nice to dream. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4101
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
I have not noticed a shortage of Targets in Low Sec. Why do you want more ? There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
79
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:03:00 -
[98] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:.... And while yes you will have to put your gold plated Raven at risk.. How many Pirate fly PvE fitted ships in lowsec?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8632
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:07:00 -
[99] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Mei Sui wrote:.... And while yes you will have to put your gold plated Raven at risk.. How many Pirate fly PvE fitted ships in lowsec?
Most of the ones I speak to make their ISK doing level 5s. Please vote for me for CSM8-áhere
My recommended voting list |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
531
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:12:00 -
[100] - Quote
Jantunen the Infernal wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. Which would be a good thing. Then all the carebears would stick with level 3s in highsec, making less isk, but the people who would take the risk of traveling to lowsec would earn more isk. Risk vs. reward and all that. Of course it'll never happen due to CCPs new pro-carebear stance, but it's always nice to dream. You say that now. But in less than a year whiners will be back in the forums crying and asking CCP to move L3's to lo sec. |
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
87
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:15:00 -
[101] - Quote
Losec is gai, some abomination form of playing 'just-the-tip', blue ballsy foreplay played between nullsec and hisec where you have to grind sec status ratting to offset pew..
1) Convert losec to nullsec 2) Fix nullsec 3) Get bacon http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca |
Mirajane Cromwell
131
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:27:00 -
[102] - Quote
I think they could introduce completely new Fleet mission -system that would be separate from the current mission system. I don't mean Incursions but the system could use same mechanics. These Fleet missions would be designed to be so hard that you can't solo them and level 1-2 fleet missions would be in high-sec, level 3-4 fleet missions in low sec, and level 5-6 fleet missions in null sec. Rewards for the fleet missions would be higher than the old solo missions ie. solo level 4 mission in high sec would pay less than level 2 fleet mission in high sec, and so on.
Having Fleet mission -system in place, it would teach players to fleet up more and move in low sec as a group and hopefully that way have higher survivality chance against pirates (and it doesn't feel that scary when you move there with your buddies ). |
baltec1
Bat Country
5927
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:28:00 -
[103] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Jantunen the Infernal wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. Which would be a good thing. Then all the carebears would stick with level 3s in highsec, making less isk, but the people who would take the risk of traveling to lowsec would earn more isk. Risk vs. reward and all that. Of course it'll never happen due to CCPs new pro-carebear stance, but it's always nice to dream. You say that now. But in less than a year whiners will be back in the forums crying and asking CCP to move L3's to lo sec.
Most of us dont even want lvl 4s moved to low sec. Just the rewards for high sec toned down so low and null players are rewardedfor taking on a greater risk. |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
621
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:32:00 -
[104] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Mei Sui wrote:.... And while yes you will have to put your gold plated Raven at risk.. How many Pirate fly PvE fitted ships in lowsec? Most of the ones I speak to make their ISK doing level 5s. gold plated Ravens i guess? Or maybe pimped faction/pirate battleships?
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baltec1
Bat Country
5927
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:35:00 -
[105] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Malcanis wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Mei Sui wrote:.... And while yes you will have to put your gold plated Raven at risk.. How many Pirate fly PvE fitted ships in lowsec? Most of the ones I speak to make their ISK doing level 5s. gold plated Ravens i guess? Or maybe pimped faction/pirate battleships?
T3s.
All the power and tank of a battleship coupled with the speed and sig of a cruiser. |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
2812
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:37:00 -
[106] - Quote
Maybe we can't bring LvL 4s to Lowsec.
But could we please fix it for me, to bring my ships to highsec and kill missioners without concord interfering.
Thanks Jim, -Buhhd |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1127
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:38:00 -
[107] - Quote
Buhhdust Princess wrote:Maybe we can't bring LvL 4s to Lowsec.
But could we please fix it for me, to bring my ships to highsec and kill missioners without concord interfering.
Thanks Jim, -Buhhd
Your mind is playing silly games with you. This is not a signature. |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
2812
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:46:00 -
[108] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Buhhdust Princess wrote:Maybe we can't bring LvL 4s to Lowsec.
But could we please fix it for me, to bring my ships to highsec and kill missioners without concord interfering.
Thanks Jim, -Buhhd Your mind is playing silly games with you.
And so is jim, ohgod. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4101
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:56:00 -
[109] - Quote
This debate was raging long before I started playing 3 years ago.
Not much success so far, huh ? There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
1522
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Posted - 2013.04.12 15:03:00 -
[110] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:This debate was raging long before I started playing 3 years ago.
Not much success so far, huh ?
http://imageshack.us/a/img39/2138/firsthybrid.jpg We all saw where this was going. Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel IG OOPE |
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Sarmatiko
1028
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Posted - 2013.04.12 15:11:00 -
[111] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:You say that now. But in less than a year whiners will be back in the forums crying and asking CCP to move L3's to lo sec. "Remove CONCORD because high Sec is too safe! " "Remove missions because EVE is all about PVP!" "Remove warp to zero bacause I can't tackle anyone!" "Remove anything from the game that I dont like!"
I think these ideas are fresh and new and never been discussed. Topicstarter should make another threads because this can change everything.
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Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
608
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Posted - 2013.04.12 15:17:00 -
[112] - Quote
Oh my, it's yet another nerf high sec thread! Run! What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2594
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Posted - 2013.04.12 15:26:00 -
[113] - Quote
A note on exploration and risk (as I have seen that brought up).
Where I have seen a lot of DED 4 tengue's doing a straight up boss kill, the owners of them tending to be former nullsec renters, and no shortage of lightweight high secs being "mined with lasers" as the saying goes, the real reason why there's not a lot of exploration outside of highsec is due to getting there.
There are two walls. The Great Wall of Carebear, is the first. It's a ring of renters and zombies shuffling around doing nothing until living meat shows up - these are the ones making lowsec more like the parking lot of the shopping mall in Dawn of the Dead.
The other is a psychological wall comparable to why people get stuck in the same traffic jams every day, over and over, without even thinking to find another route.
There are carebears on BOTH sides of that wall.
Explorers who know how to use wormholes to travel and get to nullsec and find most of it deserted, and fill their hulls with loot. No gank pipelines, no bubble camps, and practically nobody else. I have gone months without seeing anybody else "out there".
The mindset of most players, no matter what their playing style is, is to be "station bound" and "area bound", kind of like how a kid never goes around the block until some courage later on leads them to do so. I have seen people pod themselves out of wormholes because it was going to take an extra day to get out, but there was still a way out.
The ultimate problem is travel. So once more I must say that if we can eliminate the dependency on gates, by whatever mechanics and rules (why delve into details considering it's not likely?) we would put an end to these walls. The bubble camp is replaced by the combat patrol and the uber leet PVPers have to actually hunt for their prey. No more "ring of renters" keeping nullsec safe from exploitation either.
Do that, and make all resources finite to that "over-mined" and "over-missioned" regions (all security statuses) dry up, even tech moons being sucked dry, and this game truly becomes the high risk PVP game that everybody says it would be if only lvl4s were moved to low. Make these changes I suggest and most of the players will be too busy fighting over resources and salvage to run missions.
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Shiho Weitong
Koa Mai Hoku Nulli Legio
15
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Posted - 2013.04.12 15:46:00 -
[114] - Quote
If we're seriously talking Risk/Reward, nullsec should be Hammered by 25+ caps with support from NPC pirates every day to even closely make up for the rewards and lowsec rats should be the most profitable thing in EVE to even closely make up for the risk.
Lowsec is by FAR the most dangerous place in eve, due to a mix of relatively high population density coupled with the fact that most players are there for the PVP.
Nullsec on the other hand is by far the safest place in eve, due to the blobs and the Nullbear mentality.
Somewhere in between lies NPC nullsec, which actually seems relatively well balanced. |
Ryu Ibarazaki
Brave Newbies Inc.
25
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Posted - 2013.04.12 15:48:00 -
[115] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:You really take these forums way too seriously if you didn't at least chuckle. Figures. Everyone's got a stick up their A^%..... But you asked what do I personally contribute? What have I done to leave my mark upon the vastness of time and space? Why I'm the Queen of the Seven Space Lanes my friend. My opponents cry aloud and tremble at the sight of my Hello Kitty painted Vindicator streaking across the stars blaring Cher as round after round of pulsing hot Void collides into their meaty insides spit roasting them and spilling their guts into the vacuum of space. I'm the Terror of Low Sec. The demolisher of Hulks, the Baron of Booty. The Reaper of pods and Bane of all who fly. A strong Solar Wind is always to my back and the glare of dying stars shimmers across my gleaming hull as with devilish grin and malicious lust I descend upon my prey like the sheers to a calf at slaughter. I'm the Wanderer, the Hunter, and the silent Nomad. I answer to no one, heed no call, seek no ally except those who deal in the Devil's Trade of ransom and pillage. I seek no faltering Alliance of fools and weak pitiable wretches whom cling to one another like leper's diseased and my guns are the cure. I only answer to the Jolly Rodger. So Hoist The Colors. For I am a Pirate and Satan's Handmade. What is my contribution to Eve? To ensure Chaos and Terror reign supreme in a universe gone soft. To sow seeds of anger and strife at every turn. To laugh at my enemies suffering even as I profit from their misfortune and ill gotten luck. I'm a wretch and love every second of it. Better?
You had me at 'meaty insides'. |
Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
94
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Posted - 2013.04.12 15:54:00 -
[116] - Quote
Such an original idea! Clearly you have played EVE for more than 2 weeks.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4101
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Posted - 2013.04.12 16:01:00 -
[117] - Quote
This should be made a banable topic at this point. Over and over and back and forth and around and around. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
310
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Posted - 2013.04.12 16:04:00 -
[118] - Quote
This is brilliant idea i barely made it here from all bright intelligence and originality pouring out of this thread..it is like beacon of GD http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1756
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Posted - 2013.04.12 16:07:00 -
[119] - Quote
Did not read the tread, just responding to the OP. I do not agree.
L5 missions are already in low sec only, providing the balance you want. L4 missions that are in low sec already pay better than the same mission in high sec, providing the balance you want. Every player risks $15 a month. They all deserve reward for that risk irrelevant of where they play. Many players enjoy high sec and the play style afforded by high sec. This screams of the standard "You are having fun playing the game in a way I do not like, therefore the game should be changed" whine. The REAL low risk / high reward activity is station trading at a trade hub. You do not even undock and have zero chance of a ship exploding out from under you. Yet you can make far more isk than a mission runner. If your goal is to nerf low risk / high reward activities you should go after that, not missions. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1128
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Posted - 2013.04.12 16:08:00 -
[120] - Quote
Patrakele wrote:Such an original idea! Clearly you have played EVE for more than 2 weeks.
or not... This is not a signature. |
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