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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mei Sui
Justified Chaos
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 01:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.
One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation.
Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills.
While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec)
There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer.
Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away! |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
1497
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 01:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
A simple search would have provided you with years of threads all saying the same thing and they would of provided you with the exact same answer in each one. Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel IG OOPE |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
561
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 01:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:A simple search would have provided you with years of threads all saying the same thing and they would of provided you with the exact same answer in each one.
This one is different, I sense a great darkness inside it. "I do want to point out one "abuse" thing I did see however. *snipped* Please do not post details of possible exploits on the forums. - CCP Eterne" ... Because of Falcon. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2385
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 01:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
I always like to post in these threads: Yah... ofc all level 4 missions should be in lowsec.
Not a new idea. It is a good idea though, but the entitlement party of highsec would cry too much.
|
Mei Sui
Justified Chaos
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 01:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
I did run a search just now and it does show up in several threads. But usually as responses to other ideas or to address another topic. i.e inflation.
But, a good idea is worth repeating I think, even if it is in other threads. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1524
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 01:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Signed for great justice. Professional bad guys were unfortunately not available so instead they sent me. |
Alexa Coates
Federation Navy Assembly Group LLC
374
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 01:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
how bout you all stop trying to ruin the game for 75% of the players. just because we dont want to fight your un-fair ass, doesn't mean you should force us
tl;dr kill yourselves, you are the cancer killing eve. That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers. |
Alternate Poster
Blatant Tax Avoidance Victrix Mortalis
78
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 01:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
All missions, stations, belts, moons and sigs should be in Jove space. |
Frying Doom
2306
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 01:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:how bout you all stop trying to ruin the game for 75% of the players. just because we dont want to fight your un-fair ass, doesn't mean you should force us
tl;dr kill yourselves, you are the cancer killing eve. And this is why they will never be moved.
It would be the whine heard around the world.
The obvious answer is of course to leave hi-sec missions alone and increase the pay out of lo-sec missions to ,make them more attractive.
Or to open a new space, for example Jove space, make it dangerous like null sec and put new higher paying missions in there. Vote Now! My recommendations are:-á 1.James Arget 2.Ayeson 3.Nathan Jameson 4.Cipreh 5.Chitsa Jason 6. Malcanis 7. Mike Azariah 8. Ripard Teg 9. Mangala Solaris 10. Ali Aras 11. Roc Wieler And remember not voting is the same as voting for Null. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3362
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 02:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2566
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 02:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Posting in another "we killed everything that moved in lowsec for no reason and now there's no more targets" thread.
|
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
298
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 02:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'll refine the suggestion. (because frankly, that will never happen)
Increase the income spread between high sec and low sec agents, so that high sec provides considerably less income and low-sec slightly more than now. That way, Massive amounts of content won't be stripped from high sec, while the high-sec/low-sec income spread is increased to where many people feel it should be. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1524
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 02:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. This is what makes the idea so awesome. Professional bad guys were unfortunately not available so instead they sent me. |
Fairren
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
34
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 02:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec. One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation. Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills. While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec) There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer. Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away! I don't think you understand mission runner income well. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1263
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 02:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
I always wondered what all those pirate battleships were doing deep in high-sec. This would make more sense lore wise:
Level 1 : 1.0 and lower Level 2 : 0.8 and lower Level 3 : 0.6 and lower Level 4 : 0.5 and lower Level 5 : 0.4 and lower
Payout modifications are no longer by security status but simplified to high-sec, low-sec and null-sec.
Nerf enough? Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |
DRGaius Baltar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 02:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec. One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation. Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills. While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec) There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer. Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away!
Oh its you again
|
stoicfaux
2582
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 03:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Don't use a bigger stick, instead give everyone else a bigger carrot. The easier, sub-saving way is to make everything else (i.e. Incursions, FW, null-sec, industry, trading) more profitable than level 4s. Let (human) nature run its course.
|
Grayson Cole
Xerex Industrial Solutions
49
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 03:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
What an original idea! Great thread, would read again.
Also, no. Caldari Militia Gÿ£G£½GÿP |
Rexxorr
Zero Corp Tax
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 03:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nothing much would change, a few might unsub but most would just farm lvl 3 missions. Then in a few months we would have whine threads about how lvl 3 missions are to much isk for too little risk.
This has happened before with lvl 5 missions being removed from high sec completely, The result is almost no one runs lvl 5 missions anymore.
This is mostly just thinly disguised whine about not having enough baby seals to club, Really move missions ? If isk is truly a problem, just reduce npc bounties... |
Toshiroma McDiesel
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
117
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 03:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
But think about the mission gankers. Without level 4's in Hi-Sec, who's going to fly those faction fit Golems out of Osmon for them to gank? I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service. |
|
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
619
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 03:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. This is what makes the idea so awesome. translation: i don't need anything myself if it makes you lose something too |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1528
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 03:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. This is what makes the idea so awesome. translation: i don't need anything myself if it makes you lose something too It's pretty sad that you can make more money in nearly perfect safety running L4s as opposed to doing anoms in, say, low-sec. L4s are completely out of whack; L3s are plenty for high-sec. Professional bad guys were unfortunately not available so instead they sent me. |
Ryu Ibarazaki
Brave Newbies Inc.
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 04:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
OP stop the madness. Ninja Salvaging lvl 4 mission runners in high sec helps pay for my PvP habit.
|
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 04:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
I would like to understand this argument better. Is the goal of moving level 4 missions to low sec to increase opportunities for PvP or to decrease the amount of isk being generated? Everything that I've seen tells me that the net positive of moving the missions would be...lets go with "minimal."
So these are my thoughts on moving the missions, lets figure out where I'm wrong. 1. PvE boats are built differently than PvP boats. PvE boats are designed to take a little beating over a long time, whereas PvP boats are designed to spike damage. With the difference between fitting ideology, PvP pilots will more easily steamroll the PvE pilots.
2. People that just want to fly around in a blingy ships won't be coerced to go to low sec to fly missions. If their enjoyment of the game is reduced enough, these are the people most likely to leave the game.
3. People that want to PvP have to be able to sustain their PvP habit. Other games have completely removed the barrier to PvP, namely if you die you just appear again with all your stuff and are free to go at it. Now I understand and agree that this isn't the way EvE is designed. You lose your ship and whatever else every time you get blown up. The idea still exists though, people will only be able to PvP as much as their able to replace losses. Make it harder to recover from losses and you're going to effectively kill PvP for the small fish.
4. Risk vs Reward is all kinds of screwed up in low sec. You can't just pile on ridiculous amounts of risk, provide a marginal amount of reward, and expect things to be balanced. How much more risk is low sec than high sec, particularly for any PvE-ish activity (missions, hauling, mining, etc)? Twice as dangerous? Three times? Fifty times? For it to be worth going into low sec the additional profits need to exceed the additional risk taken. As everyone goes to low sec to mindlessly blow up anything that isn't their gang the risk vs reward is ridiculously out of wack. Simply moving level 4's into low sec doesn't change that balance.
5. A lot of isk is added from missions, but it's spread across a lot of players. Barring bots or something of the sorts, players having access to isk generating activities is what gives players personal options and allows the player ran economy to exist.
I would really like to understand the ideas from the other side, but I simply don't see the benefits of moving level 4's to low sec. But if there's a good counter argument, I would like to understand it. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2392
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 04:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Why not buff low/null instead? The only way I can pay for my drunken pvp is through missions and since I'm equally bad at pve, I don't earn much either. |
Tesal
280
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 04:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP: Were moving all level 4 missions to lowsec. **** you carebears.
Carebear 1: I quit.
Carebear 2: WAAAAAAAAAAAAH, my butt hurts.
1 week later at the carebear therapists office.
Therapist: You lost level 4 missions in hisec. How does that make you feel.
Carebear 2: I don't know what to do. I'm so depressed. My life is over.
Therapist: You know that EvE is a video game and its ok take your aggression out on other players. Its just a fantasy world, its not real. Explosions in an internet spaceships game might help your depression and anxiety.
Carebear 2: I'm a pirate now. I will go to lowsec. Yay I'm cured. I will go around killing other people for fun. EXPLOSIONS. Yay.
One week later.
CCP: Were getting rid of lowsec and making it hi-sec so carebears can do level 4's. **** you pirates.
The saga continues... |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
416
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 05:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm not sure what to think about low and null sec players who beg to CCP to feed them carebears. If you're in low and looking for a fight then just go to the nearest gate and there's one to be had.
Or are you looking to fight people in PVE ships who can't fight back? And if you are then how does that make you any better than the carebears?
How does acting tough go hand in hand with asking for opponents who can't fight? Surely the tough people will pick any number of the already available targets in low and null. We miss you Saede. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1119
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dear me, this again.
So, level 4 mission runners would take pve fit ships to be ganked whilst doing missions in lo-sec by gangs of pvp fit ships.
The OP has been playing since 2006. Hmm, perhaps the OP has only bought the character and has been playing Eve for a few hours and has much to learn.
Eve is about risk versus reward, not about losing ships just to pad some one else's kill board stat's.
This is not a signature. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1119
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:March rabbit wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. This is what makes the idea so awesome. translation: i don't need anything myself if it makes you lose something too It's pretty sad that you can make more money in nearly perfect safety running L4s as opposed to doing anoms in, say, low-sec. L4s are completely out of whack; L3s are plenty for high-sec.
If you get your production slots in null-sec, will you please stop whinging about hi-sec? This is not a signature. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
360
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
Posting in a stealth pirate "feed me more victims" thread.
Seriously though, level 5 missions already lead to lowsec systems, and the main reason people don't do them is because of the OMGWTFPWNED that likely occurs. Lowsec is a wasteland for a reason! I would not agree, at all, that level 4 missions should be moved there too.
Though, perhaps some new level 4 missions could be put there, awesome ones with massive amounts of additional loot. I'd see no issue with that, as highsec players would still have the choice to decline such missions for ones that they know are safe, whilst still leaving the possibility open for those willing to take the additional risk for the additional reward. Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
|
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
86
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote: ... moving the level 4 agents to low sec.
Stopped reading there. Bad Idea is still bad, no matter how much time passes or how You try to justify that. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Stroumfita
The Chive.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
Low sec has LvL 5 missions, and LvL 4 with better rewards.
If you don't know how to profit from PvE at low sec systems then grow some fu**ing balls and deal with it. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
235
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dear OP: level 5 missions used to be in High Sec. Once they were moved, people simply downgraded to level 4 missions and continued doing those. What makes you think that they won't do the same swap from 4 to 3 if you move all level 4 missions to low sec? I mean, take high sec exploration for example - I think everyone here agrees that the high sec rewards there are tiny compared to jackpots you can get in null - yet still, the VAST majority of explorers remains in high sec. Why? Because there's this (false) belief that the moment you cross the low sec threshold, every pirate in the game will come crashing down on you, taking your hard earned iskies.
Stoicfaux is right, a bigger stick won't help, it'll only trigger endless whines. What you need is a bigger carrot, something to get the highbears' attention and make them go "you know what? This might be worth risking my almost certain death in the jaws of those evil pirates". The moment they enter low/null, you've already won them to your side, as they realize their ideas of imminent death were vastly exaggerated.
It would also help if there was some sort of "what to do in case of trouble" tutorials for new pilots, such as how to react to gate camps - the more people would feel ready to enter the "dangerous space", the more likely they would be to do it.
EDIT:
Xen Solarus wrote:Though, perhaps some new level 4 missions could be put there, awesome ones with massive amounts of additional loot. I'd see no issue with that, as highsec players would still have the choice to decline such missions for ones that they know are safe, whilst still leaving the possibility open for those willing to take the additional risk for the additional reward.
There was this awesome post on EVE Evolved about a year ago on how the low sec should be changed. I still wholely agree with it:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/13/eve-evolved-risk-vs-reward-in-lowsec/ |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
590
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
Gogela wrote:I always like to post in these threads: Yah... ofc all level 4 missions should be in lowsec.
Not a new idea. It is a good idea though, but the entitlement party of highsec would cry too much.
Sounds like the lowsec people think they are entitled to easier kills....
The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
|
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
426
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Well then, but let's rebalance those missions for PvP fits. Bonus points for coming up with the idea on how to do that without breaking those missions.
While we are at it, abstract risk/reward is irrelevant. It's all about ISK/hour, including delays due to won or avoided PvP encounters and average ISK drain from PvP losses. If the resulting number isn't better than number available to you in relatively safe and predictable space, then why bother with uncertainity of free space?
Finally, speaking of "carebears will be hit" argument. Those who actually blow up their ISK earned in PvP will be hit the most, and not the "carebears" who already have assets that are barely ever blown up. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1480
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
I think you should invent a codeword for this idea. Something like "fukallevecozbored", so each time any of you feets the need to tlak abotut eh s issue, could jsut start a thread iwth s signel word. FAI:
OP: fukallevezcozbored 2n post: Awful 3rd post: horrible 4th post: awesome 5th post: fukallevecozbored 2.0 6th post: hatebears 7th post: ib4l 8th post: riskreward 9th post: fukallevezcozbored 10th post: thisthreadagain 11th post: riskreward 12th post: hatebears 13th post: ISD lock
The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1121
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Most folk do level 4 missions solo, so even if missions were to be made more like pvp, a solo pvp fit mission runner is still easy game for bored lo-sec gate campers. This is not a signature. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1480
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:(...)
Though, perhaps some new level 4 missions could be put there, awesome ones with massive amounts of additional loot. I'd see no issue with that, as highsec players would still have the choice to decline such missions for ones that they know are safe, whilst still leaving the possibility open for those willing to take the additional risk for the additional reward.
Rule #1 every palyer is a min-maxer.
If those missions were really good pay, would be farmed to death by professional farmers = inflation + bloc whining until they're nerfed as incursions were.
If they are not that good, runners will balance them in terms of iSK/hour and will find them as lacking as Lvl5s are.
(ISK/hour includes potential loss of a specialyzed and very expensive ship) The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Alec Enderas
14th Legion Eternal Evocations
65
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
Enough threads about this topic. What i think was not mentioned here yet is - you can't force players to go to lowsec. Most of the carebears would just move to grind lvl 3 missions. It's the mentality. Somebody mentioned risk vs. reward - how about lvl 4 missions (like worlds collide, extravaganzas...that already exist) getting a nice chance of having a faction drop ? (like 30-50%) |
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
141
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec. One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation. Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills. While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec) There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer. Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away!
I have no problem with l4s in high sec. I would like it if they occasionally sent people out into low sec or were a bit further from major trade hubs (like 1 in 10 or 1 in 15 missions) but I do not see the entire need to remove them from high sec. |
|
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
86
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
Super spikinator wrote: ... I would like it if they occasionally sent people out into low sec
They already, do. Only noboy wil ever force You to accept such missions. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Ritsum
Ubiquitous Hurt
161
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Moving L4's to low is pretty stupid imho. People already lose their ships to ganks and so on in High sec so low sec is not much of a difference apart from people with lower sec status can do it too.
They should just reduce the bounty's and LP rewards from L4's and review a new mission system for low/npc null.
Much more simple then changing every single mission location and agents etc and forcing High sec players into low/null.
Edit: On a side note making a new rewarding mission system in low/npc null would not even make sense since the people that live there do not endorse that playstyle >.>. So why bother trying to coerce High sec players to low by changing the locations of missions? They would just stop doing those missions and either quit or do something else in high sec. I am a proud High Sec Pve player. Got a problem? |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
LE SIGH!
Ok throw lvl 4 agents into low sec... watch all the mission runners either do lvl 3's or just quit.
you cant lead a pig tot he slaughterhouse if it knows its gonna die. |
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:55:00 -
[44] - Quote
really? this again. lets see mission returns are static, but inflation has halved the value of isk. can we first market index mission rewards, then discuss the risk? L5s are already in low-sec and I am betting the running has dropped like a stone since the patch a couple of years back.
players will migrate to Incursion or blitz L3 or mining for isk. if you are really this bored OP, camp an L5 agent and good luck.
/thread /argument |
Cannibal Kane
Somali Coast Guard Authority
1647
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:how bout you all stop trying to ruin the game for 75% of the players. just because we dont want to fight your un-fair ass, doesn't mean you should force us
tl;dr kill yourselves, you are the cancer killing eve.
That was rude and deserve a war dec. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1121
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
There are already level 4 missions in lo-sec and the three people doing them are fine with it. This is not a signature. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
320
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec. One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation. Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills. While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec) There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer. Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away!
Sadly the idea is half baked at best and solve's little with content in Low Sec let alone increases traffic. All you would do is force High Sec players to do level three's and keep grinding away aimlessly in the "safety" of High Sec. You see already people are bitching and moaning about "baww Pirates" simply because there's an element to this game in which risk used to be a very real factor in each decision made.
Sure there is the occasional suicide gank in High Sec but generally speaking a self aware player who watches local will generally be aware of the attackers. Null Sec is another safe haven now with vast coalitions spread from one corner of Eve to the next under the guise of something unique giving their members undisturbed means to rat or do other pve elements of the game.
Simply put there is no definitive reason or rather incentive for pve players to go to Low Sec at all. Not when you have two options to generate vast amounts of isk compared to the paltry scraps in low unless you grind standing for lvl 5 agents and speed run in a Carrier.
There are several real problems with why traffic in low is comprised of 95% pvp and such a small number of pve players. Here is just a few examples.
1. Isk generated in Low Sec is far less than just running a level 4 in High Sec in relative safety compared to Low.
2. Null sec offers much greater reward and the safety of a Coalition.
3. Low Sec is comprised mainly of Pirates, Faction Warfare, etc so to a pve player they want no reason to deal with these potential threats.
4. Any affront to pve players which inadvertently puts them at risk to such elements of gameplay is decried as unfair and unjust therefore nothing changes.
So really the stubbornness of these players creates the conundrum of what you have today in which vast Coalitions blue each others for relative safety and isk printing and those who really are introverted and want just a pve game just stay in High Sec. I personally wouldn't have any issue except that the quality of this game suffers due to the stubbornness of those who refuse to accept risk.
You cannot force risk upon these players because you will get the same tired bitchy responses day in and day out. Just like how I'm called every name in the book for suicide ganking some afk miner's Hulk and I'm thought of as the Devil because this person wants nothing to do with the risk mechanic and only wants to AFK mine.
Sadly the only way Low Sec will change is if CCP puts something back into the region that drives people enough to go there. make Anom's profitable as well as the nerfed Drone Sites. Give Low Sec a certain mineral that can only be mined there that is part of T2 production or something.
it forces players to go into these regions for the reward. They weigh the risk and see the reward is greater. Without any reward there is no creation of risk, combat, population etc. These are just some simple steps that need to be taken.
Will they? I've been around since 2004 and I can tell you I'm not holding my breath anytime soon especially with no one in the current CSM directly supporting our gameplay. |
pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
1115
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
anither I DEMAND THAT PEOPLE PLAY THIS GAME MY WAY post
stop whinning OP only thing you want is easy targets nothing more nothing less this has nothing to do with risk - reward concept
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
235
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Well then, but let's rebalance those missions for PvP fits. Bonus points for coming up with the idea on how to do that without breaking those missions.
Define "without breaking". Imo, missions need a major overhaul in the first place, so a player would be encouraged to bring warp scrams, neuts, ewar, different fits to different missions. They should have more in common with exploration too, for instance breaking into an enemy information center and extracting vital data or smuggling an escaped slave past an amarr blockade or similar. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
321
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:anither I DEMAND THAT PEOPLE PLAY THIS GAME MY WAY post
stop whinning OP only thing you want is easy targets nothing more nothing less this has nothing to do with risk - reward concept
Perhaps if these "targets" actually accepted risk and participated in such mechanics they wouldn't be so easy? Just a thought. |
|
Caldari Citizen 20120308
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:37:00 -
[51] - Quote
While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
|
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
321
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. |
Dave Stark
2545
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions.
and what's your overwhelmingly colossal contribution to the game? please, enlighten me. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
321
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. and what's your overwhelmingly colossal contribution to the game? please, enlighten me.
Simple. I style hair and I'm an up and coming Florist. Heck for just 10,000 isk I'll bedazzle those tight leather space pants of yours. After all, even Pirates gotta look fabulous. |
Dave Stark
2545
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. and what's your overwhelmingly colossal contribution to the game? please, enlighten me. Simple. I style hair and I'm an up and coming Florist. Heck for just 10,000 isk I'll bedazzle those tight leather space pants of yours. After all, even Pirates gotta look fabulous.
impressive, you used all those words to say "nothing"
|
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
620
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:March rabbit wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. This is what makes the idea so awesome. translation: i don't need anything myself if it makes you lose something too It's pretty sad that you can make more money in nearly perfect safety running L4s as opposed to doing anoms in, say, low-sec. L4s are completely out of whack; L3s are plenty for high-sec. i wrote it many times and i can repeat:
RISK/REWARD
RISK - player driven REWARD - CCP controlled
improving RISK/REWARD can be done different ways: - increasing REWARD - CCP needs to work on something here - decreasing RISK - it can be made by players or by CCP enforcing changes of some rules
If you want to fix RISK/REWARD you can do it by yourself (decreasing RISK in low-sec or increasing RISK in high-sec). This is totally possible (take a look to deep 0.0 farmland and to high-sec miner- and freighter-geddons). No need to ask CCP to change the whole game. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
321
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. and what's your overwhelmingly colossal contribution to the game? please, enlighten me. Simple. I style hair and I'm an up and coming Florist. Heck for just 10,000 isk I'll bedazzle those tight leather space pants of yours. After all, even Pirates gotta look fabulous. impressive, you used all those words to say "nothing"
You really take these forums way too seriously if you didn't at least chuckle. Figures. Everyone's got a stick up their A^%.....
But you asked what do I personally contribute? What have I done to leave my mark upon the vastness of time and space?
Why I'm the Queen of the Seven Space Lanes my friend. My opponents cry aloud and tremble at the sight of my Hello Kitty painted Vindicator streaking across the stars blaring Cher as round after round of pulsing hot Void collides into their meaty insides spit roasting them and spilling their guts into the vacuum of space.
I'm the Terror of Low Sec. The demolisher of Hulks, the Baron of Booty. The Reaper of pods and Bane of all who fly. A strong Solar Wind is always to my back and the glare of dying stars shimmers across my gleaming hull as with devilish grin and malicious lust I descend upon my prey like the sheers to a calf at slaughter.
I'm the Wanderer, the Hunter, and the silent Nomad. I answer to no one, heed no call, seek no ally except those who deal in the Devil's Trade of ransom and pillage. I seek no faltering Alliance of fools and weak pitiable wretches whom cling to one another like leper's diseased and my guns are the cure.
I only answer to the Jolly Rodger. So Hoist The Colors. For I am a Pirate and Satan's Handmade.
What is my contribution to Eve? To ensure Chaos and Terror reign supreme in a universe gone soft. To sow seeds of anger and strife at every turn. To laugh at my enemies suffering even as I profit from their misfortune and ill gotten luck. I'm a wretch and love every second of it.
Better? |
Dave Stark
2545
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Better?
tl:dr |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
326
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Better? tl:dr
Obviously you have no rebuttal because you are just trying to be a prick about what flavor best serves peoples tastes in this game. The point obviously is to HAVE FUN. Personally I can't understand how people in this game can shoot rocks and rats for hours on end. I'd rather just scam with one of my alts or ransom off a HS pipe gate.
It's all rather simple and quite enjoyable! Pity CCP doesn't really promote Piracy as a valid profession especially toward younger players. |
Dave Stark
2545
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:48:00 -
[60] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Better? tl:dr Obviously you have no rebuttal because you are just trying to be a prick about what flavor best serves peoples tastes in this game. The point obviously is to HAVE FUN . Personally I can't understand how people in this game can shoot rocks and rats for hours on end. I'd rather just scam with one of my alts or ransom off a HS pipe gate. It's all rather simple and quite enjoyable! Pity CCP doesn't really promote Piracy as a valid profession especially toward younger players.
i am having fun, can't you tell? getting a reaction from you was far too easy. |
|
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
326
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:49:00 -
[61] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Better? tl:dr Obviously you have no rebuttal because you are just trying to be a prick about what flavor best serves peoples tastes in this game. The point obviously is to HAVE FUN . Personally I can't understand how people in this game can shoot rocks and rats for hours on end. I'd rather just scam with one of my alts or ransom off a HS pipe gate. It's all rather simple and quite enjoyable! Pity CCP doesn't really promote Piracy as a valid profession especially toward younger players. i am having fun, can't you tell? getting a reaction from you was far too easy.
Oh okay. I was trolling you the whole time and only kidding hurr durr!! Jesus Christ....
|
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1294
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:50:00 -
[62] - Quote
What a original and not already discussed to death idea. You sir are a genius in your creativity and ability to deduce a major flaw in Eve Online. I tip my hat to you good sir. Don't Vote for Malcanis
New Eden Training Simulation. -áIdea to improve NPE. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2515
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:56:00 -
[63] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:You really take these forums way too seriously if you didn't at least chuckle. Figures. Everyone's got a stick up their A^%..... But you asked what do I personally contribute? What have I done to leave my mark upon the vastness of time and space? Why I'm the Queen of the Seven Space Lanes my friend. My opponents cry aloud and tremble at the sight of my Hello Kitty painted Vindicator streaking across the stars blaring Cher as round after round of pulsing hot Void collides into their meaty insides spit roasting them and spilling their guts into the vacuum of space. I'm the Terror of Low Sec. The demolisher of Hulks, the Baron of Booty. The Reaper of pods and Bane of all who fly. A strong Solar Wind is always to my back and the glare of dying stars shimmers across my gleaming hull as with devilish grin and malicious lust I descend upon my prey like the sheers to a calf at slaughter. I'm the Wanderer, the Hunter, and the silent Nomad. I answer to no one, heed no call, seek no ally except those who deal in the Devil's Trade of ransom and pillage. I seek no faltering Alliance of fools and weak pitiable wretches whom cling to one another like leper's diseased and my guns are the cure. I only answer to the Jolly Rodger. So Hoist The Colors. For I am a Pirate and Satan's Handmade. What is my contribution to Eve? To ensure Chaos and Terror reign supreme in a universe gone soft. To sow seeds of anger and strife at every turn. To laugh at my enemies suffering even as I profit from their misfortune and ill gotten luck. I'm a wretch and love every second of it. Better?
<3
Saved the thread, which consists mostly of bears flinging the same non-arguments they learned in NPC corp chats ad nauseaum.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
328
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:05:00 -
[64] - Quote
Roime wrote:Tara Read wrote:You really take these forums way too seriously if you didn't at least chuckle. Figures. Everyone's got a stick up their A^%..... But you asked what do I personally contribute? What have I done to leave my mark upon the vastness of time and space? Why I'm the Queen of the Seven Space Lanes my friend. My opponents cry aloud and tremble at the sight of my Hello Kitty painted Vindicator streaking across the stars blaring Cher as round after round of pulsing hot Void collides into their meaty insides spit roasting them and spilling their guts into the vacuum of space. I'm the Terror of Low Sec. The demolisher of Hulks, the Baron of Booty. The Reaper of pods and Bane of all who fly. A strong Solar Wind is always to my back and the glare of dying stars shimmers across my gleaming hull as with devilish grin and malicious lust I descend upon my prey like the sheers to a calf at slaughter. I'm the Wanderer, the Hunter, and the silent Nomad. I answer to no one, heed no call, seek no ally except those who deal in the Devil's Trade of ransom and pillage. I seek no faltering Alliance of fools and weak pitiable wretches whom cling to one another like leper's diseased and my guns are the cure. I only answer to the Jolly Rodger. So Hoist The Colors. For I am a Pirate and Satan's Handmade. What is my contribution to Eve? To ensure Chaos and Terror reign supreme in a universe gone soft. To sow seeds of anger and strife at every turn. To laugh at my enemies suffering even as I profit from their misfortune and ill gotten luck. I'm a wretch and love every second of it. Better? <3 Saved the thread, which consists mostly of bears flinging the same non-arguments they learned in NPC corp chats ad nauseaum.
Well he wanted my opinion and I gave him my delusional ramblings rattling around in my head But yes I agree. Eve has become too friendly if that's the correct term for it. And because it has become too friendly the core elements of what make Eve appealing have diminished.
I remember reading about Titan kills and gawking at the thought. Or reading reports of Battleship fleets spending hours traveling and maneuvering across null sec just to engage an enemy. Strategy and tact were what made those FC's and fights legendary in my mind.
I remember my first trek into low sec scared out of my mind and being blown up. Luckily that Pirate gave me advise. And I wanted that power over other players that he had. The unpredictability in Eve is what is most appealing. The unknown. Sadly I think with such Coalitions and power blocks it seems that the players have outgrown New Eden.
|
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
421
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:07:00 -
[65] - Quote
Not gonna happen. You know how many people would rage quit over it? *removed inappropriate signature* - CCP Eterne |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
328
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:10:00 -
[66] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Not gonna happen. You know how many people would rage quit over it?
Probably the dozen people who actually sit at their computer instead of AFKing when missioning or mining.... |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
421
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:14:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Not gonna happen. You know how many people would rage quit over it? Probably the dozen people who actually sit at their computer instead of AFKing when missioning or mining....
Never afked missions nor mining. Guess I am not part of the majority, eh? I have afked cloaking before just to **** people off though. *removed inappropriate signature* - CCP Eterne |
|
CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
2288
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:15:00 -
[68] - Quote
I have removed a personal attack from this thread. New Eden Community Representative GÇ+ New Eden Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
|
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:15:00 -
[69] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.
One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to... Bad idea. The level 4 mission take way too long for the average player in his PVE fitted ship... longer than an hour on some. They will be tracked down and destroyed. Risk far exceeds rewards, so for most that try... they will die and never go back.
If you are serious about risk/reward and the possibility of getting new players into other areas. Special lowsec, very short, very profitable, low NPC risk missions would be better. Something that paid out high, but only required a Cruise to kill the rats... in five minutes. They will still die (sometimes/often) but their loss will be somewhat insignificant.
Some won't go or won't go back, other will think... that was fun.
|
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:19:00 -
[70] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Barrogh Habalu wrote:Well then, but let's rebalance those missions for PvP fits. Bonus points for coming up with the idea on how to do that without breaking those missions. Define "without breaking". Imo, missions need a major overhaul in the first place, so a player would be encouraged to bring warp scrams, neuts, ewar, different fits to different missions. They should have more in common with exploration too, for instance breaking into an enemy information center and extracting vital data or smuggling an escaped slave past an amarr blockade or similar.
Truth
Missions in losec (regardless of where the agent is based) need to be based around doing them in PvP fit ships.
Nobody in their right mind is going to go to losec, especially if it's FW losec, in a PvE fit ship to do missions, regardless of the potential reward.
Those not in their right mind (or unwilling to do any research) will do it once then be forever scared of entering losec. The odds of survival are just too low. |
|
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
74
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:25:00 -
[71] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:... Because there's this (false) belief that the moment you cross the low sec threshold, every pirate in the game will come crashing down on you, taking your hard earned iskies... I will be trying in the future to run L1s and maybe 2 s in low sec with my new toon outfitting in a Slasher with AC... that ship looks fun. I will be annoyed if the rats kill me, I expect a pirate to kill me eventually. My ISK loss will be acceptable.
I will not be taking a fitted BS into Lowsec to run L4s that can take an hour. I will be tracked down and destroyed... at least I hope I would or I will be very disappointed in pirates.
L4s too much risk and they take too long.
|
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
329
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:30:00 -
[72] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Tara Read wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Not gonna happen. You know how many people would rage quit over it? Probably the dozen people who actually sit at their computer instead of AFKing when missioning or mining.... Never afked missions nor mining. Guess I am not part of the majority, eh? I have afked cloaking before just to **** people off though.
Judging from the people I've ganked you are in the minority |
Sentamon
811
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:35:00 -
[73] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.
One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec.
Fair enough, so when will gankers and pirates face any sort of risk? Remove 100% safety in stations and hiding behind non-criminal alts and you might have something. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
kes88
Swords of Persephone
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:52:00 -
[74] - Quote
Tara Read wrote: 1. Isk generated in Low Sec is far less than just running a level 4 in High Sec in relative safety compared to Low.
2. Null sec offers much greater reward and the safety of a Coalition.
3. Low Sec is comprised mainly of Pirates, Faction Warfare, etc so to a pve player they want no reason to deal with these potential threats.
4. Any affront to pve players which inadvertently puts them at risk to such elements of gameplay is decried as unfair and unjust therefore nothing changes.
So really the stubbornness of these players creates the conundrum of what you have today in which vast Coalitions blue each others for relative safety and isk printing and those who really are introverted and want just a pve game just stay in High Sec. I personally wouldn't have any issue except that the quality of this game suffers due to the stubbornness of those who refuse to accept risk.
You cannot force risk upon these players because you will get the same tired bitchy responses day in and day out. Just like how I'm called every name in the book for suicide ganking some afk miner's Hulk and I'm thought of as the Devil because this person wants nothing to do with the risk mechanic and only wants to AFK mine.
Sadly the only way Low Sec will change is if CCP puts something back into the region that drives people enough to go there. make Anom's profitable as well as the nerfed Drone Sites. Give Low Sec a certain mineral that can only be mined there that is part of T2 production or something.
it forces players to go into these regions for the reward. They weigh the risk and see the reward is greater. Without any reward there is no creation of risk, combat, population etc. These are just some simple steps that need to be taken.
Will they? I've been around since 2004 and I can tell you I'm not holding my breath anytime soon especially with no one in the current CSM directly supporting our gameplay.
I do want to respond to a couple of things you've said here and some other points in this thread:
Firstly, you refer to the 'stubborness of those who refuse to accept risk' - I have two things I want to say about this:
1) Why on earth would someone, in their nice shiny BS want to jump into low and try and mish whilst avoiding being popped when they can have their cake and eat it in high sec. Yes, certainly risk averse, but sensible surely? If you fancy a pint of beer, you're probably gonna go down to your local where you can have a nice quiet pint, than the dodgy end of town pub where you are likely to get beaten up/mugged just so you can have your pint? No L4 missioners wants to deliberately turn themselves into a sitting duck when they are in a pve fit BS.
2) Stubborness is irrelevant. Low sec dwellers are just as stubborn about the fact that they want more targets. Criticising someone for being risk averse in this case is silly, because they don't care that they are being risk averse.
Secondly, I think that although the OP has good intentions - ie by considering the influx of isk brought by missioning but I feel that a lot of the pro-low sec posters in here simply want to have more easy targets. You aren't demanding that more people go to low sec and pvp, you are demanding that more people go to low sec and present themselves as easy targets (I say easy targets because someone missioning is at a disadvantage being in a pve fit)
Thirdly, on a slightly different note, something I always note in these sorts of posts is that people who profess to be suicide gankers or pvpers nearly always argue that they are ganking someone who is afk, presumably to justify the kill. I find it hard to believe that all these people being ganked are all horrid nasty afk players.
Fourthly, has it ever occured to anyone that not all high sec missioners want to stay in high sec all the time? I personally want to mission in hi, but I don't mind going into low/null for other reasons. I simply don't want to waste isk replacing ships that I don't need to lose, because I can mish in high without having to risk getting popped in something expensive.
|
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 11:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
kes88 wrote: ~carebear confessions~
After a bit of consideration, I think we should abolish missions altogether. That's right, all of them, everywhere. I don't care if it doesn't make you ever tiptoe out of high sec either. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1124
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 11:47:00 -
[76] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions.
You pays your money, you makes your choice.
It amuses me how some tough-guy, Eve is a sandbox players, want to tell other folk how they should play.
CCP provide the sandbox, the players decide how to use it. This is not a signature. |
Black Cadelanne
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 11:48:00 -
[77] - Quote
L5 are to heavy for OP?
Not soon, not now, never. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1124
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 11:48:00 -
[78] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:kes88 wrote: ~carebear confessions~ After a bit of consideration, I think we should abolish missions altogether. That's right, all of them, everywhere. I don't care if it doesn't make you ever tiptoe out of high sec either.
Don't like missions?
Don't do 'em.
Easy really. This is not a signature. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 11:50:00 -
[79] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Fair enough, so when will gankers and pirates face any sort of risk? Remove 100% safety in stations and hiding behind non-criminal alts and you might have something.
What makes you think we are safe from each other out there?
Do you really think the whole of low sec is in the same boat, all merrily camping those high sec gates together, waiting for the lemmings to finally arrive?
Really? |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 11:51:00 -
[80] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:kes88 wrote: ~carebear confessions~ After a bit of consideration, I think we should abolish missions altogether. That's right, all of them, everywhere. I don't care if it doesn't make you ever tiptoe out of high sec either. Don't like missions? Don't do 'em. Easy really.
Way to miss the point. |
|
kes88
Swords of Persephone
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 12:15:00 -
[81] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:kes88 wrote: ~carebear confessions~ After a bit of consideration, I think we should abolish missions altogether. That's right, all of them, everywhere. I don't care if it doesn't make you ever tiptoe out of high sec either.
Not exactly a tempered response...perhaps we should abolish pvp, just because I don't personally like the way YOU play? Hmm?
I strongly suggest you watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZD6-vGQms
The bit you want is at exactly 2: 58. Number of players living in high sec. There is too much isk going into the game (I believe he says 26 Trillion from bounties alone) and there are too few sinks. Further into that particular lecture he goes through the stats on how players make their isk. You might want to look at that.
The vast majority of players choose to live in high sec, making their isk grinding missions whether they say they pvp, or they actually pvp.
I stick by my earlier statements that these sorts of threads frequently descend into pro-low seccers demanding more easy targets.
I'm not saying that it would be a bad thing to get more people into low and null to do more pvp, I'm saying why would anyone mish somewhere where they risk losing their expensive stuffs? Someone mentioned earlier that having mishes in which one could combine pve/pvp fits more easily, maybe in smaller less expensive ships might encourage this, but I'm not making any suggestions. I don't know how to 'fix' this issue, nor do I profess to.
Ultimately, CCP need to find a way to a) encourage (not FORCE) players to pvp, and go into lower sec systems and b) develop greater isk sinks to combat inflation caused by the majority of players earning their isk grinding missions etc I absolutely do not agree that the way to do this is to move L4s to low sec. Do you see what I'm saying now?
(I appreciate that I'm trying to get my point across, but I'm not the *most* articulate person)
|
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
621
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 12:21:00 -
[82] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:kes88 wrote: ~carebear confessions~ ...I think... LIAR.
|
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
74
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 12:23:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. Those damn CCP people. Worried about their jobs and feeding their families. What is wrong with them! |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
35
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 12:38:00 -
[84] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:kes88 wrote: ~carebear confessions~ After a bit of consideration, I think we should abolish missions altogether. That's right, all of them, everywhere. I don't care if it doesn't make you ever tiptoe out of high sec either. After a bit of consideration, let's abolish PvP altogether. It is just as sensible as your solution. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
528
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 12:40:00 -
[85] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. And so what if they pay 15 dollars to "collect rocks and shoot crosses"? People aren't playing this game to please you. Thy're not paying $15 to play how you want them to play and do what you want them to do. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 12:42:00 -
[86] - Quote
kes88 wrote: (I appreciate that I'm trying to get my point across, but I'm not the *most* articulate person)
Indeed, you could have taken my post with a grain of salt..
I got your point the first time and I never said it wasn't true. I'm just resigned to the fact that nothing will drag some people away from their safe havens and just to to spite them, I would like see their toys taken away from them.
I know this does not amount to a viable business strategy for CCP.
Still, in my opinion, missions in their current state serve no other function than establishing a culture of compulsively hoarding carebears.
|
Demica Diaz
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 12:56:00 -
[87] - Quote
I honestly do not think that moving level 4 missions to low sec will help at all. People who mission in their expensive ships will not risk to get jumped by 10 pirates in low sec, instead they will grind level 3 missions.
Better sollution would be reduce ammount of ISK you get from level 4 high sec missions vs low sec level 4 missions. But yet again, I dont see even that bringing high sec mission runners to low sec at all.
|
kes88
Swords of Persephone
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 12:58:00 -
[88] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:kes88 wrote: (I appreciate that I'm trying to get my point across, but I'm not the *most* articulate person) Indeed, you could have taken my post with a grain of salt.. I got your point the first time and I never said it wasn't true. I'm just resigned to the fact that nothing will drag some people away from their safe havens and just to to spite them, I would like see their toys taken away from them. I know this does not amount to a viable business strategy for CCP. Still, in my opinion, missions in their current state serve no other function than establishing a culture of compulsively hoarding carebears.
No, I agree. There is some serious need for balancing the higher levels missions for that exact reason - the compulsively hoarding. Unfortunately, in order to change anything, CCP will probably end up annoying a huge number of us high-seccers in trying to correct the balance. Mainly because we like hoarding... |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
78
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 12:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:...Still, in my opinion, missions in their current state serve no other function than establishing a culture of compulsively hoarding carebears... Some people like to run missions. The come online with some friends run two or three missions, socialize, make some plans... in game and out... then log off. They are not compulsively hoarding carebears, as they often time have very little in value... be it ships or ISK. They maybe carebears, but the money is made in trading and manufacturing... not grunt work.
I agree that missions need a rework, but you have different types of players running them. Including PvPers.
|
Stroumfita
The Chive.
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 13:14:00 -
[90] - Quote
Moving LvL 4s out of high sec will not solve the problem, those who don't want to risk will stay to lvl 3s.
What do you think will make some ppl to move into low sec for lvl 4s when blitzing lvl 3s in NPC 0.0 is more profitable?
And with a cloaky nulli t3 cruiser with some safe spots and some instas is far more safe even from 1.0 space.
Take a look at all the PvE events that EvE can give you, see what profit you the most and then move to your choice. |
|
Sarmatiko
1028
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 13:15:00 -
[91] - Quote
Why would anyone do Lvl 4 missions in lowsec? It's easier to make low SP FW alt and farm LP without any serious risk (like already many farmers do). This will not increase tasty carebear traffic for low sec pirates - people just move into 0.0 under renter's intel channel protection (safest place in EVE). Others will just unsubscribe and this will end well for CCP business.
|
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
530
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 13:18:00 -
[92] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:
Still, in my opinion, missions in their current state serve no other function than establishing a culture of compulsively hoarding carebears.
Which are no worse than killboard hoarders, or null sec system hoarders, or moon hoarders. Their subscription, their fun.
|
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
426
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 13:31:00 -
[93] - Quote
So long as moon mining gets moved to include High Sec, sure... move the level 4 missions.
Might as well take the risk out of moon mining if extra ganking risk is going to be added to doing Level 4's.
Because, let's be honest... .moving level 4's to Low or Null is all about giving bored Null Seccers more to shoot at... that's what they will tell you. But eventually it would just create more fat and cuddly Nullbears ?
Balance, and all that... not that there's any risk in moon mining these days.... who the Hell wants the Sov Grind to claim any moon, nevermind a valuable one.
Should I get another can of gas ?
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
359
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 13:39:00 -
[94] - Quote
Been discussed before as mentioned and I will give the same answer I always give.
Level four missions are popular because outside of HighSec Incursions they're the best reliable ISK/H in HighSec. Anomalies in NullSec (even crappy NullSec) still pay you more money, the issue with them is NullSec has people interupting your cash flow. Making L4 Missions LowSec only will just make them something only a few people do and penalise those who live in Empire and need a good steady income. No one is going to move to LowSec for L4 missions because the risk isn't worth the rewards, until they make it so you can run a L4 mission AND fend off the 12 pirates which want to gank you it's not going to work. LowSec faces the simple issue that there is no real way to police it and make it safe for you corporation or alliance to run missions there without having superior numbers online at all times and knowing you can always be hot dropped.
If you're worried about HighSec being too valuable look at ways to make other areas more appealing without harming the income of those who want to live in HighSec. No perfect refining in HighSec, bigger taxes, things which don't outright stop people making ISK or enjoying the game but make the idea of a move to LowSec or NullSec more appealing (though no one eve wants to live in LowSec for PVE) Ideas like this can even be ties into the FW system to make taxes and refining dynamic based on who is winning the war, Caldari start to lose so the Stations take more of your minerals to cover the demand for more war assets. Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |
Mei Sui
Justified Chaos
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 13:42:00 -
[95] - Quote
There are some good comments in the thread, so IGÇÖll try and address them. IGÇÖm paraphrasing but IGÇÖll try my best to summarize.
1. GÇ£Pfft, theyGÇÖll just move to level 3GÇÖsGÇ¥: And they are more than welcome to do so. But consider the Isk source coming from missions. They essentially come from 3 areas: Bounties/Tags, Mission Reward itself and Salvage. Put together you can get approximately (guessing here) about 10M isk per hour. Level 3GÇÖs on the other hand IGÇÖm going to guess will be about 1/3 to -+ of this and as one of the previous posters pointed out, itGÇÖs all about ISK per hour versus relative safety. If the mission runners want to stay in the safety of high sec, they should not be rewarded by outsized gains no matter the downstream benefits to fund PvP, etc.
2.GÇ£YouGÇÖll feed us to Evil Pirates!!!GÇ¥ : Pirates are the primary risk factor in lowsec, no doubt. But make no mistake; they are just as important part to the EVE Universe as mission runners. And while yes you will have to put your gold plated Raven at risk by moving into low-sec that is a choice you make for the rewards you want. Keep an eye on local, make intel channels, join corporations, stay aligned to warp outGÇÖs and pay attention! What scares people I think is the fact theyGÇÖll have to actually start paying attention and canGÇÖt use missions (as much) as an AFK ATM machine. (Level 5GÇÖs on the other hand, were designed for groups so they are not quite the same as level 4GÇÖs which are the highest tier that can be soloGÇÖd)
Another factor that wasnGÇÖt mentioned, but one I thought about while driving to work, was the fact that this could also increase the risk, but to the pirates. While the image of feeding plump mission runners to pirates is an enticing one, donGÇÖt forget that pirates will attract another kind of player and that is the bounty hunter. While lambs attract wolves, wolves attract hunters looking for pelts. Not ALL of those RavenGÇÖs will be as helpless as they appear.
3. GÇ£CCP will not risk the wrath of the carebearsGÇ¥: CCP has made wide scale mission running adjustments when it was adversely affecting the economy. The example that comes to mind was the simultaneous removal of Drone minerals and T1 loot that was crashing the mineral market. At that time a tier 1 battleship was going around for 60M, a Tier 2, 85M and Tier 3, 120M. This essentially took out the dedicated miner as a worthwhile profession due to the fact that you had an unlimited source of minerals that was not constrained due to depletion. You could just run missions ad infinitum. Now those prices have increased anywhere from 50-100% due to that source being shut off and the mineral market now being more closely tied to the available ores in the area and not just mission loot. This affected every mission runner and cut down their available profits. Not a huge drop, but a noticeable one never-the-less.
Anyways, keep the flames coming! :) |
Jantunen the Infernal
O C C U P Y
103
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 13:54:00 -
[96] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. Which would be a good thing. Then all the carebears would stick with level 3s in highsec, making less isk, but the people who would take the risk of traveling to lowsec would earn more isk. Risk vs. reward and all that. Of course it'll never happen due to CCPs new pro-carebear stance, but it's always nice to dream. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4101
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
I have not noticed a shortage of Targets in Low Sec. Why do you want more ? There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
79
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:03:00 -
[98] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:.... And while yes you will have to put your gold plated Raven at risk.. How many Pirate fly PvE fitted ships in lowsec?
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8632
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:07:00 -
[99] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Mei Sui wrote:.... And while yes you will have to put your gold plated Raven at risk.. How many Pirate fly PvE fitted ships in lowsec?
Most of the ones I speak to make their ISK doing level 5s. Please vote for me for CSM8-áhere
My recommended voting list |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
531
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:12:00 -
[100] - Quote
Jantunen the Infernal wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. Which would be a good thing. Then all the carebears would stick with level 3s in highsec, making less isk, but the people who would take the risk of traveling to lowsec would earn more isk. Risk vs. reward and all that. Of course it'll never happen due to CCPs new pro-carebear stance, but it's always nice to dream. You say that now. But in less than a year whiners will be back in the forums crying and asking CCP to move L3's to lo sec. |
|
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
87
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:15:00 -
[101] - Quote
Losec is gai, some abomination form of playing 'just-the-tip', blue ballsy foreplay played between nullsec and hisec where you have to grind sec status ratting to offset pew..
1) Convert losec to nullsec 2) Fix nullsec 3) Get bacon http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca |
Mirajane Cromwell
131
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:27:00 -
[102] - Quote
I think they could introduce completely new Fleet mission -system that would be separate from the current mission system. I don't mean Incursions but the system could use same mechanics. These Fleet missions would be designed to be so hard that you can't solo them and level 1-2 fleet missions would be in high-sec, level 3-4 fleet missions in low sec, and level 5-6 fleet missions in null sec. Rewards for the fleet missions would be higher than the old solo missions ie. solo level 4 mission in high sec would pay less than level 2 fleet mission in high sec, and so on.
Having Fleet mission -system in place, it would teach players to fleet up more and move in low sec as a group and hopefully that way have higher survivality chance against pirates (and it doesn't feel that scary when you move there with your buddies ). |
baltec1
Bat Country
5927
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:28:00 -
[103] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Jantunen the Infernal wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. Which would be a good thing. Then all the carebears would stick with level 3s in highsec, making less isk, but the people who would take the risk of traveling to lowsec would earn more isk. Risk vs. reward and all that. Of course it'll never happen due to CCPs new pro-carebear stance, but it's always nice to dream. You say that now. But in less than a year whiners will be back in the forums crying and asking CCP to move L3's to lo sec.
Most of us dont even want lvl 4s moved to low sec. Just the rewards for high sec toned down so low and null players are rewardedfor taking on a greater risk. |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
621
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:32:00 -
[104] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Mei Sui wrote:.... And while yes you will have to put your gold plated Raven at risk.. How many Pirate fly PvE fitted ships in lowsec? Most of the ones I speak to make their ISK doing level 5s. gold plated Ravens i guess? Or maybe pimped faction/pirate battleships?
|
baltec1
Bat Country
5927
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:35:00 -
[105] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Malcanis wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Mei Sui wrote:.... And while yes you will have to put your gold plated Raven at risk.. How many Pirate fly PvE fitted ships in lowsec? Most of the ones I speak to make their ISK doing level 5s. gold plated Ravens i guess? Or maybe pimped faction/pirate battleships?
T3s.
All the power and tank of a battleship coupled with the speed and sig of a cruiser. |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
2812
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:37:00 -
[106] - Quote
Maybe we can't bring LvL 4s to Lowsec.
But could we please fix it for me, to bring my ships to highsec and kill missioners without concord interfering.
Thanks Jim, -Buhhd |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1127
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:38:00 -
[107] - Quote
Buhhdust Princess wrote:Maybe we can't bring LvL 4s to Lowsec.
But could we please fix it for me, to bring my ships to highsec and kill missioners without concord interfering.
Thanks Jim, -Buhhd
Your mind is playing silly games with you. This is not a signature. |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
2812
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:46:00 -
[108] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Buhhdust Princess wrote:Maybe we can't bring LvL 4s to Lowsec.
But could we please fix it for me, to bring my ships to highsec and kill missioners without concord interfering.
Thanks Jim, -Buhhd Your mind is playing silly games with you.
And so is jim, ohgod. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4101
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:56:00 -
[109] - Quote
This debate was raging long before I started playing 3 years ago.
Not much success so far, huh ? There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
1522
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 15:03:00 -
[110] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:This debate was raging long before I started playing 3 years ago.
Not much success so far, huh ?
http://imageshack.us/a/img39/2138/firsthybrid.jpg We all saw where this was going. Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel IG OOPE |
|
Sarmatiko
1028
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 15:11:00 -
[111] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:You say that now. But in less than a year whiners will be back in the forums crying and asking CCP to move L3's to lo sec. "Remove CONCORD because high Sec is too safe! " "Remove missions because EVE is all about PVP!" "Remove warp to zero bacause I can't tackle anyone!" "Remove anything from the game that I dont like!"
I think these ideas are fresh and new and never been discussed. Topicstarter should make another threads because this can change everything.
|
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
608
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 15:17:00 -
[112] - Quote
Oh my, it's yet another nerf high sec thread! Run! What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2594
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 15:26:00 -
[113] - Quote
A note on exploration and risk (as I have seen that brought up).
Where I have seen a lot of DED 4 tengue's doing a straight up boss kill, the owners of them tending to be former nullsec renters, and no shortage of lightweight high secs being "mined with lasers" as the saying goes, the real reason why there's not a lot of exploration outside of highsec is due to getting there.
There are two walls. The Great Wall of Carebear, is the first. It's a ring of renters and zombies shuffling around doing nothing until living meat shows up - these are the ones making lowsec more like the parking lot of the shopping mall in Dawn of the Dead.
The other is a psychological wall comparable to why people get stuck in the same traffic jams every day, over and over, without even thinking to find another route.
There are carebears on BOTH sides of that wall.
Explorers who know how to use wormholes to travel and get to nullsec and find most of it deserted, and fill their hulls with loot. No gank pipelines, no bubble camps, and practically nobody else. I have gone months without seeing anybody else "out there".
The mindset of most players, no matter what their playing style is, is to be "station bound" and "area bound", kind of like how a kid never goes around the block until some courage later on leads them to do so. I have seen people pod themselves out of wormholes because it was going to take an extra day to get out, but there was still a way out.
The ultimate problem is travel. So once more I must say that if we can eliminate the dependency on gates, by whatever mechanics and rules (why delve into details considering it's not likely?) we would put an end to these walls. The bubble camp is replaced by the combat patrol and the uber leet PVPers have to actually hunt for their prey. No more "ring of renters" keeping nullsec safe from exploitation either.
Do that, and make all resources finite to that "over-mined" and "over-missioned" regions (all security statuses) dry up, even tech moons being sucked dry, and this game truly becomes the high risk PVP game that everybody says it would be if only lvl4s were moved to low. Make these changes I suggest and most of the players will be too busy fighting over resources and salvage to run missions.
|
Shiho Weitong
Koa Mai Hoku Nulli Legio
15
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 15:46:00 -
[114] - Quote
If we're seriously talking Risk/Reward, nullsec should be Hammered by 25+ caps with support from NPC pirates every day to even closely make up for the rewards and lowsec rats should be the most profitable thing in EVE to even closely make up for the risk.
Lowsec is by FAR the most dangerous place in eve, due to a mix of relatively high population density coupled with the fact that most players are there for the PVP.
Nullsec on the other hand is by far the safest place in eve, due to the blobs and the Nullbear mentality.
Somewhere in between lies NPC nullsec, which actually seems relatively well balanced. |
Ryu Ibarazaki
Brave Newbies Inc.
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 15:48:00 -
[115] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:You really take these forums way too seriously if you didn't at least chuckle. Figures. Everyone's got a stick up their A^%..... But you asked what do I personally contribute? What have I done to leave my mark upon the vastness of time and space? Why I'm the Queen of the Seven Space Lanes my friend. My opponents cry aloud and tremble at the sight of my Hello Kitty painted Vindicator streaking across the stars blaring Cher as round after round of pulsing hot Void collides into their meaty insides spit roasting them and spilling their guts into the vacuum of space. I'm the Terror of Low Sec. The demolisher of Hulks, the Baron of Booty. The Reaper of pods and Bane of all who fly. A strong Solar Wind is always to my back and the glare of dying stars shimmers across my gleaming hull as with devilish grin and malicious lust I descend upon my prey like the sheers to a calf at slaughter. I'm the Wanderer, the Hunter, and the silent Nomad. I answer to no one, heed no call, seek no ally except those who deal in the Devil's Trade of ransom and pillage. I seek no faltering Alliance of fools and weak pitiable wretches whom cling to one another like leper's diseased and my guns are the cure. I only answer to the Jolly Rodger. So Hoist The Colors. For I am a Pirate and Satan's Handmade. What is my contribution to Eve? To ensure Chaos and Terror reign supreme in a universe gone soft. To sow seeds of anger and strife at every turn. To laugh at my enemies suffering even as I profit from their misfortune and ill gotten luck. I'm a wretch and love every second of it. Better?
You had me at 'meaty insides'. |
Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 15:54:00 -
[116] - Quote
Such an original idea! Clearly you have played EVE for more than 2 weeks.
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4101
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 16:01:00 -
[117] - Quote
This should be made a banable topic at this point. Over and over and back and forth and around and around. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
310
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 16:04:00 -
[118] - Quote
This is brilliant idea i barely made it here from all bright intelligence and originality pouring out of this thread..it is like beacon of GD http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1756
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 16:07:00 -
[119] - Quote
Did not read the tread, just responding to the OP. I do not agree.
L5 missions are already in low sec only, providing the balance you want. L4 missions that are in low sec already pay better than the same mission in high sec, providing the balance you want. Every player risks $15 a month. They all deserve reward for that risk irrelevant of where they play. Many players enjoy high sec and the play style afforded by high sec. This screams of the standard "You are having fun playing the game in a way I do not like, therefore the game should be changed" whine. The REAL low risk / high reward activity is station trading at a trade hub. You do not even undock and have zero chance of a ship exploding out from under you. Yet you can make far more isk than a mission runner. If your goal is to nerf low risk / high reward activities you should go after that, not missions. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1128
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 16:08:00 -
[120] - Quote
Patrakele wrote:Such an original idea! Clearly you have played EVE for more than 2 weeks.
or not... This is not a signature. |
|
AeonOfTime
syrkos technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:17:00 -
[121] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: Every player risks $15 a month. They all deserve reward for that risk irrelevant of where they play. Many players enjoy high sec and the play style afforded by high sec. This screams of the standard "You are having fun playing the game in a way I do not like, therefore the game should be changed" whine.
Could not have put it better myself.
Play the game the way you like, and do not try to make everyone else play like you think they should. Yes, some people actually like the casual EVE side. Highsec level 4 mission runners do not keep you from playing the game the way you like. If you are jealous of their alleged lavish and risk-free lifestyle, run some highsec level 4 missions yourself. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4103
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:22:00 -
[122] - Quote
AeonOfTime wrote: Highsec level 4 mission runners do not keep you from playing the game the way you like.
Indeed, I would understand these knuckleheaded threads if the High Sec activities were actually harming their experience in some way. In ANY way.
Talk about a bunch of cry-babies, I mean really that's the only way to put it. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Nifter Telfo
Pen Cap Technologies
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 22:02:00 -
[123] - Quote
If anything, they should move level 5s to high sec as well. We have high sec incursions which gives buckets of ISK, so why not Level 5s? Could give some very nice 3-5 man group content. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
429
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 22:05:00 -
[124] - Quote
Nifter Telfo wrote:If anything, they should move level 5s to high sec as well. We have high sec incursions which gives buckets of ISK, so why not Level 5s? Could give some very nice 3-5 man group content.
... and Sanctums and Havens.... c'mon folks... let's get this "Herpaderp Friday" rocking off the rails...
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Praetor Meles
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
36
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 22:07:00 -
[125] - Quote
Posting in stealth "change nothing" thread. [insert random rubbish that irritates you personally] is further evidence that Eve is dying/thriving*
* delete as required to make your point |
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
248
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 22:53:00 -
[126] - Quote
I think moving all LvL IV agents to lowsec is probably a bad move for a variety of reasons, but as someone who actually does run lowsec LvL IV's more than once in a blue moon, I'd really appreciate more agents throughout lowsec. Many corporations have all their lowsec agents in one hub, which is a pita if you're not planning on living out of that hub. Lowsec as it is is fairly scarce on resources except for exploration - more Lvl IV agents would help it to support a higher population.
Either create more lowsec Lvl IV agents, or move some of the less used ones from highsec. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
339
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 23:16:00 -
[127] - Quote
kes88 wrote:Tara Read wrote: 1. Isk generated in Low Sec is far less than just running a level 4 in High Sec in relative safety compared to Low.
2. Null sec offers much greater reward and the safety of a Coalition.
3. Low Sec is comprised mainly of Pirates, Faction Warfare, etc so to a pve player they want no reason to deal with these potential threats.
4. Any affront to pve players which inadvertently puts them at risk to such elements of gameplay is decried as unfair and unjust therefore nothing changes.
So really the stubbornness of these players creates the conundrum of what you have today in which vast Coalitions blue each others for relative safety and isk printing and those who really are introverted and want just a pve game just stay in High Sec. I personally wouldn't have any issue except that the quality of this game suffers due to the stubbornness of those who refuse to accept risk.
You cannot force risk upon these players because you will get the same tired bitchy responses day in and day out. Just like how I'm called every name in the book for suicide ganking some afk miner's Hulk and I'm thought of as the Devil because this person wants nothing to do with the risk mechanic and only wants to AFK mine.
Sadly the only way Low Sec will change is if CCP puts something back into the region that drives people enough to go there. make Anom's profitable as well as the nerfed Drone Sites. Give Low Sec a certain mineral that can only be mined there that is part of T2 production or something.
it forces players to go into these regions for the reward. They weigh the risk and see the reward is greater. Without any reward there is no creation of risk, combat, population etc. These are just some simple steps that need to be taken.
Will they? I've been around since 2004 and I can tell you I'm not holding my breath anytime soon especially with no one in the current CSM directly supporting our gameplay.
I do want to respond to a couple of things you've said here and some other points in this thread: Firstly, you refer to the 'stubborness of those who refuse to accept risk' - I have two things I want to say about this: 1) Why on earth would someone, in their nice shiny BS want to jump into low and try and mish whilst avoiding being popped when they can have their cake and eat it in high sec. Yes, certainly risk averse, but sensible surely? If you fancy a pint of beer, you're probably gonna go down to your local where you can have a nice quiet pint, than the dodgy end of town pub where you are likely to get beaten up/mugged just so you can have your pint? No L4 missioners wants to deliberately turn themselves into a sitting duck when they are in a pve fit BS. 2) Stubborness is irrelevant. Low sec dwellers are just as stubborn about the fact that they want more targets. Criticising someone for being risk averse in this case is silly, because they don't care that they are being risk averse. Secondly, I think that although the OP has good intentions - ie by considering the influx of isk brought by missioning but I feel that a lot of the pro-low sec posters in here simply want to have more easy targets. You aren't demanding that more people go to low sec and pvp, you are demanding that more people go to low sec and present themselves as easy targets (I say easy targets because someone missioning is at a disadvantage being in a pve fit) Thirdly, on a slightly different note, something I always note in these sorts of posts is that people who profess to be suicide gankers or pvpers nearly always argue that they are ganking someone who is afk, presumably to justify the kill. I find it hard to believe that all these people being ganked are all horrid nasty afk players. Fourthly, has it ever occured to anyone that not all high sec missioners want to stay in high sec all the time? I personally want to mission in hi, but I don't mind going into low/null for other reasons. I simply don't want to waste isk replacing ships that I don't need to lose, because I can mish in high without having to risk getting popped in something expensive.
I'll respond based upon your points.
On the first point. You are only reinforcing my statements as far as missioning and risk. Why would a mission runner venture to low sec at all? And it certainly is sensible if not down right lazy imo. We make things too easy for players in a "risky" universe. I'm not even saying these people should be in low sec.
I'm merely pointing out that they go unabated in their ventures and low sec gives them no incentive to go there.
On the second point you could not be more wrong. I don't really enjoy easy ganks. Sure they are meh kills and sometimes funny but I'd MUCH rather have a decent fight as I'm sure many a low sec dweller here would agree with me. That's why we are even IN low sec to begin with.
Many decent fights are to be had especially in FW space and I've been very open in wishing CCP would encourage these pve players to dabble in pvp or like I stated making Piracy a viable starting profession for newer players.
On the third point I can attest that 9 times out of 10 the people I gank i HS are either afk or semi afk which is why they are so easy to kill in the first place. Like I stated earlier if these pilots were self aware and had basic knowledge to watch local, D scan, etc it would be almost impossible to catch them.
On the fourth point you sound like you want your cake and want to eat it too. Eve shouldn't be WoW or Pve/Pvp sanctioned zones. Eve is supposed to be dangerous no matter where you are. Just because you want to avoid that element doesn't mean it should be so. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
339
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 23:18:00 -
[128] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. You pays your money, you makes your choice. It amuses me how some tough-guy, Eve is a sandbox players, want to tell other folk how they should play. CCP provide the sandbox, the players decide how to use it.
You sound upset. Where did the mean Pirate touch you? On your pod? Again I'd have no qualms with you being a reclusive hermit shooting rocks all day if it wasn't a detriment to what Eve should be, Utter chaos and danger. Sorry if this isn't a "pve" server for your cross shooting. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
339
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 23:19:00 -
[129] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Tara Read wrote:.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. Those damn CCP people. Worried about their jobs and feeding their families. What is wrong with them!
Oh please.... Stop making this about CCP and more about you people threatening to quit because you don't want risk in a game that is built around it. |
Mire Stoude
Antelope with Night Vision Goggles
174
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 23:19:00 -
[130] - Quote
Anytime I want to run missions in low sec for amazing returns I just jump in my cloaky stabbed atron and circle a complex for 10-20 minutes at a time. |
|
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
522
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 23:20:00 -
[131] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. Or leave.
Bravo, you killed EvE. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
|
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
339
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 23:23:00 -
[132] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. And so what if they pay 15 dollars to "collect rocks and shoot crosses"? People aren't playing this game to please you. Thy're not paying $15 to play how you want them to play and do what you want them to do.
I never said they did. However these people ***** and moan when they are killed because they expect their precious CONCORD to protect them. It's like guards in Stormwind only in space (see how I made that easier for you to relate to?)
The point is these people have become too comfortable. And judging from the outcries in this thread any sort of risk or danger is seen as an affront to your precious afk game play. Why don't you learn the mechanics? Why don't you outsmart gankers? it's not hard to do.
All it is is laziness in my eyes. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
536
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 23:47:00 -
[133] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:I never said they did. However these people ***** and moan when they are killed because they expect their precious CONCORD to protect them. It's like guards in Stormwind only in space (see how I made that easier for you to relate to?)
The point is these people have become too comfortable. And judging from the outcries in this thread any sort of risk or danger is seen as an affront to your precious afk game play. Why don't you learn the mechanics? Why don't you outsmart gankers? it's not hard to do.
All it is is laziness in my eyes. You know what? I see more anti-carebears ***** and whine than I see carebears do it. And in case we forget, the outcry on this very thread, if you haven't noticed, is to have the game mechanics changed in favor of the ganker over the mission runner. And there are a couple of other whine threads on the very first page of GD asking for game mechanics to be changed to suit gankers over carebears.
This notion that "carebears" are whiners while deliberately ignoring the fact that gankers tend to be just as whiny (or worse) seriously needs to stop. I would suggest you follow your own advice and stop asking CCP to change the game mechanics to suit you and find ways to lure and gank your soft targets. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
339
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 23:53:00 -
[134] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tara Read wrote:I never said they did. However these people ***** and moan when they are killed because they expect their precious CONCORD to protect them. It's like guards in Stormwind only in space (see how I made that easier for you to relate to?)
The point is these people have become too comfortable. And judging from the outcries in this thread any sort of risk or danger is seen as an affront to your precious afk game play. Why don't you learn the mechanics? Why don't you outsmart gankers? it's not hard to do.
All it is is laziness in my eyes. You know what? I see more anti-carebears ***** and whine than I see carebears do it. And in case we forget, the outcry on this very thread, if you haven't noticed, is to have the game mechanics changed in favor of the ganker over the mission runner. And there are a couple of other whine threads on the very first page of GD asking for game mechanics to be changed to suit gankers over carebears. This notion that "carebears" are whiners while deliberately ignoring the fact that gankers tend to be just as whiny (or worse) seriously needs to stop. I would suggest you follow your own advice and stop asking CCP to change the game mechanics to suit you and find ways to lure and gank your soft targets.
What are you smoking? I never suggested mechanics be changed to favor gankers so DON'T make asshat comments without first reading and digesting the information given to you. I suggested changing pve content in low sec to favor more traffic and a reason to bring people back to these regions besides pvp.
|
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1270
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 23:58:00 -
[135] - Quote
Nifter Telfo wrote:If anything, they should move level 5s to high sec as well. We have high sec incursions which gives buckets of ISK, so why not Level 5s? Could give some very nice 3-5 man group content. Now here's something.
MOVE ALL INCURSIONS TO LOW-SEC !!! Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |
Fairren
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
35
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 00:02:00 -
[136] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:
1. GÇ£Pfft, theyGÇÖll just move to level 3GÇÖsGÇ¥: And they are more than welcome to do so. But consider the Isk source coming from missions. They essentially come from 3 areas: Bounties/Tags, Mission Reward itself and Salvage.
The LP rewards are a big part of the income, too.
The LP store, salvage, and loot income is supply/demand driven. You can't treat it the same as static income from bounties and rewards and expect to nerf high sec missions effectively. |
Mei Sui
Justified Chaos
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 01:19:00 -
[137] - Quote
Fairren wrote:Mei Sui wrote:
1. GÇ£Pfft, theyGÇÖll just move to level 3GÇÖsGÇ¥: And they are more than welcome to do so. But consider the Isk source coming from missions. They essentially come from 3 areas: Bounties/Tags, Mission Reward itself and Salvage.
The LP rewards are a big part of the income, too. The LP store, salvage, and loot income is supply/demand driven. You can't treat it the same as static income from bounties and rewards and expect to nerf high sec missions effectively.
That is true, for the mission runner the LP store is a major source of isk. In Inflation terms however, it is not a net increase into the money supply. LP functions the same way as the mineral market, where it facilitates the transfer of ISK between parties, but does not add ISK directly into the money supply. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
536
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 01:42:00 -
[138] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tara Read wrote:I never said they did. However these people ***** and moan when they are killed because they expect their precious CONCORD to protect them. It's like guards in Stormwind only in space (see how I made that easier for you to relate to?)
The point is these people have become too comfortable. And judging from the outcries in this thread any sort of risk or danger is seen as an affront to your precious afk game play. Why don't you learn the mechanics? Why don't you outsmart gankers? it's not hard to do.
All it is is laziness in my eyes. You know what? I see more anti-carebears ***** and whine than I see carebears do it. And in case we forget, the outcry on this very thread, if you haven't noticed, is to have the game mechanics changed in favor of the ganker over the mission runner. And there are a couple of other whine threads on the very first page of GD asking for game mechanics to be changed to suit gankers over carebears. This notion that "carebears" are whiners while deliberately ignoring the fact that gankers tend to be just as whiny (or worse) seriously needs to stop. I would suggest you follow your own advice and stop asking CCP to change the game mechanics to suit you and find ways to lure and gank your soft targets. What are you smoking? I never suggested mechanics be changed to favor gankers so DON'T make asshat comments without first reading and digesting the information given to you. I suggested changing pve content in low sec to favor more traffic and a reason to bring people back to these regions besides pvp. See bold above. You tell me to "go learn the game mechanics" (insinuating I don't already) and I tell you to stop bitching and whining and go play the game. Again, follow your own advice. |
Mei Sui
Justified Chaos
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 01:44:00 -
[139] - Quote
A lot of people are reacting as if I'm suggesting that Level 4 agents be removed all together. If you want to farm level 4 missions all day long, you have my blessing. It's just the security status of the system will be a little more red than you may be used to, OR like it to be.
One poster said that EVE needs to provide a 'good and secure' source of income. It will continue to provide a secure source of income, via level 3 agents and below. There's nothing that says it has to be a 'good' source of income. If you want to live with no risk and mission away, your friendly level 3 agent will be glad to help. A few million per hour via level 3 missions is a decent source of income, if you want more, you should risk more.
Finally, a lot of mission runners are stating they have no effect in the EVE world. As was pointed out in the economics lecture during the 2012 Fanfest, that is patently wrong. Hi-Sec mission is an ENORMOUS source of ISK being dumped into the economy. This is causing a rising inflation rate that is hard to contain. The CCP presenter (Dr. Guymundsson, CCP EyoG) mentioned that one way CCP is looking at containing this enormous source of ISK has been increasing the ISK sinks via Fee's and Taxes. I believe this will go a long way in address a lot of issues without resorting to singular band aid solutions.
|
Cazador 64
Nightmare Logistics
141
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:03:00 -
[140] - Quote
I have read this post before I am sure of it. I am also sure this will never happen. They have lvl 5s in low sec you point is null and void |
|
Cazador 64
Nightmare Logistics
141
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:10:00 -
[141] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. Or leave. Bravo, you killed EvE.
This, I love when people make these post like EVE is some new MMO that's fresh on the market. The amount of unsubs would be unfathomable CCP knows this that's why lvl 4's will never be moved to low just so you can have more targets.
|
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
281
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 02:14:00 -
[142] - Quote
I don't know what all the hub-bub is about.
You can make more isk in Faction Warfare than you can running level 4's.
And all you need is a frig with warp stabs and saint's patience to watch local while you run down the 20 minute timers. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1488
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 12:49:00 -
[143] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:A lot of people are reacting as if I'm suggesting that Level 4 agents be removed all together. If you want to farm level 4 missions all day long, you have my blessing. It's just the security status of the system will be a little more red than you may be used to, OR like it to be.
One poster said that EVE needs to provide a 'good and secure' source of income. It will continue to provide a secure source of income, via level 3 agents and below. There's nothing that says it has to be a 'good' source of income. If you want to live with no risk and mission away, your friendly level 3 agent will be glad to help. A few million per hour via level 3 missions is a decent source of income, if you want more, you should risk more.
Finally, a lot of mission runners are stating they have no effect in the EVE world. As was pointed out in the economics lecture during the 2012 Fanfest, that is patently wrong. Hi-Sec missions are an ENORMOUS source of ISK being dumped into the economy. This is causing a rising inflation rate that is hard to contain. The CCP presenter (Dr. Guymundsson, CCP EyoG) mentioned that one way CCP is looking at containing this enormous source of ISK has been increasing the ISK sinks via fee's and taxes. I believe this solution will go a long way in address a lot of issues without resorting to singular band aid solutions.
Well, obviously, less players certainly add less ISK to the game. I gues that EVE was a cooler place when it had 100,000 subscribers.
Anyway, I see you're stubborn enough to pretend to tell others how to play the game... which means that you may be quite bad at playing it your way. I completely fail to see how Llvl4 running harms you in whatever you do, unless you pretend that someone agrees to pad your KB with dedicated Lvl4 fits. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
572
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 13:36:00 -
[144] - Quote
All level 4 and level 3 should be in lowsec. |
Praetor Meles
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
37
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 13:54:00 -
[145] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:All level 4 and level 3 should be in lowsec.
0/10...must try harder. [insert random rubbish that irritates you personally] is further evidence that Eve is dying/thriving*
* delete as required to make your point |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
94
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:13:00 -
[146] - Quote
if you run missions in low sec you know there's neither risk nor reward just constant irritation of dscan spamming and interruption, for solo players at least. maybe blitz missions are worthwhile if you have social skills maxed out, for the LP. otherwise i might as well be doing stuff in null where local is all i really need. which is where i'm going next when i have my HAC skills trained. L4s really aren't that brilliant income.
low sec missioning should be different imo. more like fw plexes where there's little PvE and if you bail on the objective when you see trouble coming then you lose. freelance space bum |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
572
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:24:00 -
[147] - Quote
Praetor Meles wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:All level 4 and level 3 should be in lowsec. 0/10...must try harder.
Opinions... why do people have different opinions? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4104
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:26:00 -
[148] - Quote
We should all put Bounties on folks who start these idiotic threads. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Dave Stark
2558
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:26:00 -
[149] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Praetor Meles wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:All level 4 and level 3 should be in lowsec. 0/10...must try harder. Opinions... why do people have different opinions?
because opinions are like facts for the incorrect.
it lets them feel like their voice is valid, even when it isn't. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4104
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:33:00 -
[150] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Praetor Meles wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:All level 4 and level 3 should be in lowsec. 0/10...must try harder. Opinions... why do people have different opinions? because opinions are like facts for the incorrect. it lets them feel like their voice is valid, even when it isn't.
Actually, opinions are valid.
It's when they insist the opinion is truth simply by stating it, or putting it in print that the problem arises. Like the Louisiana school textbooks that state men and dinosaurs walked together. Oh yes indeed. Problems. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
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Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
432
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:37:00 -
[151] - Quote
... strums the banjo and waits for a new Level 4 mission, available in Low Sec only, called "Deliverance"...
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Bellanea Rajanir
Poseidaon
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:38:00 -
[152] - Quote
Move all mineable moons into high sec. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4104
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:41:00 -
[153] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:... strums the banjo and waits for a new Level 4 mission, available in Low Sec only, called "Deliverance"...
Dueling Banjo Dogs There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
572
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:41:00 -
[154] - Quote
Bellanea Rajanir wrote:Move all mineable moons into high sec.
Sure, but also remove concord from the game. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4104
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:42:00 -
[155] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Bellanea Rajanir wrote:Move all mineable moons into high sec. Sure, but also remove concord from the game.
You are not trolling properly. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
572
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:44:00 -
[156] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Bellanea Rajanir wrote:Move all mineable moons into high sec. Sure, but also remove concord from the game. You are not trolling properly.
Im not trolling, im responding to the suggestion to move all mineable moons into high sec. |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:44:00 -
[157] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:I did run a search just now and it does show up in several threads. But usually as responses to other ideas or to address another topic. i.e inflation.
But, a good idea is worth repeating I think, even if it is in other threads. No it's a stupid idea... Stupid... Lets find more ways to drive people out of the game... |
Sebben
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 17:06:00 -
[158] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec. One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation. Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills. While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec) There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer. Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away!
So your trying to get PVE fit people to go into lowsec/nullsec to do PVE missions, with generally no PVP ships, so you can take your PVP ship, and gank the PVE people, who can't combat your PVP fit ship with their PVE fit ship.
And your calling it a Financial Stabilization....
Next you'll be asking to eliminate local.
You should have been a politician. |
Mei Sui
Justified Chaos
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 17:14:00 -
[159] - Quote
Sebben wrote:Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec. One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation. Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills. While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec) There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer. Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away! So your trying to get PVE fit people to go into lowsec/nullsec to do PVE missions, with generally no PVP ships, so you can take your PVP ship, and gank the PVE people, who can't combat your PVP fit ship with their PVE fit ship. And your calling it a Financial Stabilization.... Next you'll be asking to eliminate local. You should have been a politician.
One good idea at a time |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4104
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 17:19:00 -
[160] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.
You are 8 years or so late on this.
Lame. Lame. Lame. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
536
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 19:04:00 -
[161] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:One good idea at a time If what you're trying to accomplish is drive CCP's customers away, well, yeah, this indeed is a great idea. |
Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
212
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 19:19:00 -
[162] - Quote
If CCP moves level 4 missions to low sec they should also move incursions to low sec as well. In fact move everything to low sec so the only people who can make money is the ones that are in a corp or have enough time to spend the time it takes to grind up in high sec for a decentship that can travel to low-sec and spend hours trying not to die from all the people waiting to blow them out of the water.
What are you crazy? If anything make level 5 missions more numerable or profitable to encourage those, but there's a lot of people who like to play eve casually. Not everyone is a teenager with innumerable hours of free time a day to devote to an online video game or has the patience to grind level 3 missions in high sec because they're broke and they want to mission in low sec. |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
332
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 19:26:00 -
[163] - Quote
As others have said a lot of people enjoy running Level 4 missions and that is all they do in Eve so moving them all to lowsec would loose a lot of subs for CCP, a better solution would be:
Adjust all highsec missions to payout up to Level2-3 tops.
Then the economy is safe, Risk:Reward is balanced and people can still enjoy shooting large red crosses in safety! Candy's Capital Shop |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
97
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 19:27:00 -
[164] - Quote
if they made the LP payouts anywhere near as good as L5 missions I would totally run them in low. what's the best you can make in a one room blapfest like the blockade? 15000? freelance space bum |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
82
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 19:43:00 -
[165] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:if they made the LP payouts anywhere near as good as L5 missions I would totally run them in low. what's the best you can make in a one room blapfest like the blockade? 15000?
Want better LP rewards? Join FW. One FW L4 mission can pay you upwards of 80,000 LP. Not to mention the LP costs for items in the FW LP store are a lot lower than you typical npc corp. Example: Navy Mega costs around 600k LP in a typical LP store, but in Gallente FW LP store it only costs 250k.
You want incentive to go to lowsec, there it is. |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
97
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 20:03:00 -
[166] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:if they made the LP payouts anywhere near as good as L5 missions I would totally run them in low. what's the best you can make in a one room blapfest like the blockade? 15000? Want better LP rewards? Join FW. One FW L4 mission can pay you upwards of 80,000 LP. Not to mention the LP costs for items in the FW LP store are a lot lower than you typical npc corp. Example: Navy Mega costs around 600k LP in a typical LP store, but in Gallente FW LP store it only costs 250k. You want incentive to go to lowsec, there it is.
yeah, might have to try that out. I've run the novice plexes and L1s with a minmatar alt before but I was falling prone to piracy somewhat. but if I can take my sentries anyone popping in to say hi will catch a burn freelance space bum |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1058
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 01:46:00 -
[167] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.
See, this is the kind of thing that makes me rub my temples and shake my head.
Repeat after me: you CAN NOT force players into doing something they don't want to do.
Let's be honest - if someone wanted to mission in low sec, they would already be missioning in low sec. Heck, FW was basically a way to print insane amounts of ISK with minimal, virtually nonexistent risk.
Someone who doesn't want to mission in low sec, will NEVER mission in low sec, no matter how big a carrot you dangle in front of them. Well, within limits, of course. If a single mission awarded 10 billion ISK, people would do it, as doing it once would more than offset any losses, but realistically, there's no reasonable reward that could be offered that would make people come to low sec if they weren't willing before.
What it would do, however, is kill high sec mission running community. Which, to be fair, is fairly small to start with, but still, subs are subs (and many of those mission runners run multiple subs, if for no other reason than to speedily salvage).
In short, it's not a solution, because it just plum won't work. Secondly, it's not a solution because there's no problem to start with - it's just a different play style. And once you start to force people out of their chosen playstyles in an MMO that claims to be a sandbox...well...it never ends well.
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1194
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 01:59:00 -
[168] - Quote
If missions were structured in such a way that in order to do them effectively you didn't need to be flying a ridiculously fit, incredibly vulnerable ship that can't defend itself against other players then it might be appropriate to move level 4 missions to lowsec.
Regardless of whether or not mission runners would actually go to lowsec to run level 4s all that would do is introduce a bunch of totally defenseless targets to lowsec and that doesn't seem particularly valuable to me.
I'm all for looking at highsec PVE income and adding additional risk to it, but I think moving level 4 missions to lowsec is probably not the way to do it. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1339
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 02:31:00 -
[169] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.
Alright I will spend some time seriously thinking... NO.
Next?
Live Events are neither. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4107
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 02:33:00 -
[170] - Quote
The only possible response to this thread now or in the future:
Monty Python There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4107
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 02:35:00 -
[171] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec. Repeat after me: you CAN NOT force players into doing something they don't want to do.
For real. I go playing in Low Sec when and if I feel like it. That's what it's there for. This subject is seriously just too bizarre. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Caleb Seremshur
Dark Circle Enforcement Templis Dragonaors
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 14:08:00 -
[172] - Quote
Rexxorr wrote:Nothing much would change, a few might unsub but most would just farm lvl 3 missions. Then in a few months we would have whine threads about how lvl 3 missions are to much isk for too little risk.
This has happened before with lvl 5 missions being removed from high sec completely, The result is almost no one runs lvl 5 missions anymore.
This is mostly just thinly disguised whine about not having enough baby seals to club, Really move missions ? If isk is truly a problem, just reduce npc bounties...
How about keeping faction patrols in lowsec? They are, after all, still empire space. There might be no concord but full-blown pirates will eventually get mobbed by faction police.
Since we're on that topic, make faction police pay bounties in lowsec, to provide a legitmate excuse for fighting them.
Next we make it that because lowsec is about increased risk, lowsec faction patrols will have sleeper ai, use drones, scram/web, use ECM and generally fight like players, they will viciously target neutral pirates, enemy FW players and AWOXers.
Next we increase the density of mission hubs slightly and introduce a techmoon or two to the empire territories.
Since people whining about L4's want more nullsec space to be a pack of slavering yuppies in, let's make the barrier to hitting highsec a little higher for this group of people whom, aside from their sec status, have no limitations to participating in highsec/lowsec activities. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
350
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 14:28:00 -
[173] - Quote
The fight against inflation should be done by nerfing null sec sov-space bounty revenue. Moving lv4 missions to low sec will just make people cry without adressing the problem. G££ <= Me |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 14:56:00 -
[174] - Quote
Altrue wrote:The fight against inflation should be done by nerfing null sec sov-space bounty revenue. Moving lv4 missions to low sec will just make people cry without adressing the problem.
Indeed. And yet even as we speak they organise their union activity against paying residents of New Eden. What we need is some form of 'Space Thatcher' to make the CSM more accountable to all eve players. freelance space bum |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
345
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 19:57:00 -
[175] - Quote
Op has a great idea! I love it - ship prices would fall like a rock! Why? Because you would convert a bunch of mission runners to miners.
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3242
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 23:50:00 -
[176] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Don't use a bigger stick, instead give everyone else a bigger carrot. The easier, sub-saving way is to make everything else (i.e. Incursions, FW, null-sec, industry, trading) more profitable than level 4s. Let (human) nature run its course.
CCP tried this with faction warfare button-spinning. It didn't work as well as many people would have expected. Lowsec filled up with 3-day-old button spinning alts who would warp to a safespot the moment anyone entered local.
The greatest problem with lowsec from a carebear's perspective is the people in lowsec who will shoot everything that moves (and if it doesn't move, they'll bump it so it does move, then shoot it because it's moving).
I think the carrot needs to be offered to people in lowsec to not shoot some people. Why would a trigger happy PvPer decide to not shoot something? What sort of reward could be on offer that would be sweeter than exploding someone else's ship? Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Veronica Kerrigan
Hand Of Midas My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
88
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 23:52:00 -
[177] - Quote
I believe we already have high risk high reward missions that are in lowsec only. They are called level 5 missions. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1341
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 23:53:00 -
[178] - Quote
A more honest thread title would have been "Moving All Level 4 Mission Runners to Another Game."
CCP's accounting department would like a word with you. Live Events are neither. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3242
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 23:55:00 -
[179] - Quote
As for the idea of moving L4s to lowsec: L5s are already in lowsec, as are incursions that pay out 50% more than hisec incursions. Very few people engage in these activities. I wonder why that is?
The carrot just cannot be big enough to draw risk-averse players into low sec to learn how to PvP. Missions to lowsec will be skipped and abandoned. Moving industry to lowsec will benefit the people who are already in lowsec and know how to keep new folks off their lawn, meanwhile hisec will simply starve and the game will die.
Depriving hisec players of income will lead to hisec players not having the ability to fund their excursions into lowsec.
Ultimately, the problem with lowsec is the people in lowsec. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
94
|
Posted - 2013.04.14 23:56:00 -
[180] - Quote
ok boys and girls.
back in 2005 upto 2008
I ran missions in low sec or null sec.
why did I do this??
better lp rewards and income. and low sec was must more empty back then and if you played your cards right and befriended the locals. you usually got left alone if you kept your head on.
Did I lose ships to low sec pvpers? yes and no. sometimes it was bad luck and what not. Did I ever get scanned down? nope.
places I missioned off of the top of me head were.
Ziriert Hophib << lost a sacriledge here to dumn luck Yahyerer Gyerzen << my 1st pvp was in this system.. I killed me a loot thief lol Aranir << lost a raven to a sacriledge and his 2 friends and after he dide they was on grid. and last but not least. G-0Q86 < lost an apoc to a random gate camp. lost other shiops tooo but that's the part and parcel of low/null missions.
would I do them now days??? lol nope.
|
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bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
95
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 18:30:00 -
[181] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:As for the idea of moving L4s to lowsec: L5s are already in lowsec, as are incursions that pay out 50% more than hisec incursions. Very few people engage in these activities. I wonder why that is?
The carrot just cannot be big enough to draw risk-averse players into low sec to learn how to PvP. Missions to lowsec will be skipped and abandoned. Moving industry to lowsec will benefit the people who are already in lowsec and know how to keep new folks off their lawn, meanwhile hisec will simply starve and the game will die.
Depriving hisec players of income will lead to hisec players not having the ability to fund their excursions into lowsec.
Ultimately, the problem with lowsec is the people in lowsec.
I agree.. don't matter what ccp does to make null or low sec mission desirable, people just wont go. and the more desirable ccp makes it. the more that pvp corps will exploit it.
imo null sec and low sec missions too a HUGE hit when cco made most missions out of system. that's why null sec and low sec missions rocked back in the day. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2617
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 18:36:00 -
[182] - Quote
bufnitza calatoare wrote:ok boys and girls.
back in 2005 upto 2008
I ran missions in low sec or null sec.
why did I do this??
better lp rewards and income. and low sec was must more empty back then and if you played your cards right and befriended the locals. you usually got left alone if you kept your head on.
Did I lose ships to low sec pvpers? yes and no. sometimes it was bad luck and what not. Did I ever get scanned down? nope.
places I missioned off of the top of me head were.
Ziriert Hophib << lost a sacriledge here to dumn luck Yahyerer Gyerzen << my 1st pvp was in this system.. I killed me a loot thief lol Aranir << lost a raven to a sacriledge and his 2 friends and after he dide they was on grid. and last but not least. G-0Q86 < lost an apoc to a random gate camp. lost other shiops tooo but that's the part and parcel of low/null missions.
would I do them now days??? lol nope.
Back in those days, when we were strapping rockets onto pterodactyls, not everybody and every thing in lowsec was attacked. In fact the small fish were left alone and this was BEFORE WTZ.
Yes that's right, before WTZ.
It was not like some nullsec napfest though. Some of the first skills you learn is how to use AB/MWD.
As Matrix Skye likes to say when people complain about carebears and lowsec's lack of activity or targets: "You people won lowsec. You killed everybody. Congratulations." (Paraphrasing here).
Back in the day there were pirates and they went after big fish who should know better (and did) and they lived off loot and ransom. Small fish were left alone - griefing a noob out of the game (and therefore less targets in the future) was not worth the KM. This is why we don't shoot baby ducks and most game animals have size limits. If you were a big wheel you could make arrangements or beat the pirates. A good time was had by all.
Now it's simply killmail whoring, anything and everything. And when someone does get their act together and tries to break up a camp, what happens? They all jump into an Orca and that jumps into highsec.
Meanwhile, the scanning mechanics, though opening up a great avenue towards exploration that have been my career, made it so that any monkey can scan down any ship.
Now in that latter part, the gate camp was the hardest part to deal with, but any ship equipped to run, or a pilot with skills in how to handle these situations, had a chance (a chance is the important part. You play poker for a chance to win, not to just hand over money) to make it to their mission. Then there was the gauntlet run of getting out later. It was not a picnic, but it was not a lose lose situation either.
Scanning was the end of low-sec mission running, for it became immensely easier to scan a target down, but there was nothing to help the target. The target has the same mechanics for a decade.
|
Darius Brannock
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 21:17:00 -
[183] - Quote
I think the only way to get more people going to losec/null from high sec is to simply fix the insurance system. I am not going to risk my expensive ship for an insurance payback of a few percent of the cost of the ship plus modules - that's a joke.
However, if insurance worked something like the following, I would easily consider risking mission/exploration ships outside high sec:
1. Initially pay a fee of 10% of the hull value to start an insurance contract for 90 days (or however many days seems right)
2. Anytime during the next 90 days that the player loses the ship the following will happen:
a. ship loss will still drop some modules and some cargo hold items as it does now. b. the player will pay a 10% service fee based on the estimated market value of the ship and all its fittings at time of loss. b. the player will receive a new ship back as it was before the loss - minus the fitted modules that dropped with the wreck. c. they cannot access the ship until they pay the service fee. d. player will not receive any payouts on or return of cargo hold items. e. if player has access to the wreck before someone else gets to it, then they can recover the dropped modules and cargo items that were not destroyed. If player has no access to said wreck, then they must find replacements themselves.
3. This can happen an unlimited number of times during the 90 days of the insurance contract.
If my auto insurance company only gave me the option of insurance like that provided in Eve, I would tell them to **** off. Just because someone was exploiting Eve insurance in the past does not mean it cannot be remade into a useful tool to encourage more MMO and risk taking in the game. People will still get to blow up ships, some stuff will still drop, and it will still be cost the loser some hard earned ISKs - but not their whole ship.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
566
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 21:39:00 -
[184] - Quote
OP...
To what end?
Why do you want L4 missions moved to low sec?
If the answer is, becuase you want massive deflation as the ISK flow into game takes a MASSIVE hit as people simply stop running L4 missions, well.. okay. I disagree, but at least your desired outcome is based in reality.
If the answer to that is, that you want people to go out to low sec in PVE ships to run L4s, so that you can hunt and kill them, then you are clueless as to the mindset of the player that is running L4s in high sec.
Move L4s to low sec, people stop running L4s. There will NOT be any more people in low sec, in PVE ships, running L4 missions.
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
4489
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 22:13:00 -
[185] - Quote
Is it just me or did everyone forget ...
WE ALREADY TRIED THIS!?!!!!
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Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
347
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 00:40:00 -
[186] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tara Read wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tara Read wrote:I never said they did. However these people ***** and moan when they are killed because they expect their precious CONCORD to protect them. It's like guards in Stormwind only in space (see how I made that easier for you to relate to?)
The point is these people have become too comfortable. And judging from the outcries in this thread any sort of risk or danger is seen as an affront to your precious afk game play. Why don't you learn the mechanics? Why don't you outsmart gankers? it's not hard to do.
All it is is laziness in my eyes. You know what? I see more anti-carebears ***** and whine than I see carebears do it. And in case we forget, the outcry on this very thread, if you haven't noticed, is to have the game mechanics changed in favor of the ganker over the mission runner. And there are a couple of other whine threads on the very first page of GD asking for game mechanics to be changed to suit gankers over carebears. This notion that "carebears" are whiners while deliberately ignoring the fact that gankers tend to be just as whiny (or worse) seriously needs to stop. I would suggest you follow your own advice and stop asking CCP to change the game mechanics to suit you and find ways to lure and gank your soft targets. What are you smoking? I never suggested mechanics be changed to favor gankers so DON'T make asshat comments without first reading and digesting the information given to you. I suggested changing pve content in low sec to favor more traffic and a reason to bring people back to these regions besides pvp. See bold above. You tell me to "go learn the game mechanics" (insinuating I don't already) and I tell you to stop bitching and whining and go play the game. Again, follow your own advice.
Follow my own advise? I don't live in high sec yet I know it's mechanics and how to exploit them. I was merely stating that HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as:
1. watching local.
2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another.
3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station.
4. use D scan.
These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... |
Igor Slovensky
get outa dodge corp
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 01:03:00 -
[187] - Quote
People are going to play eve the style they choose. Changing the location of lvl 4 agents will only result in those people wishing to avoid low or null sec to adjust their game accordingly. They will continue to avoid low and null sec space, and fine other ways to gain isk in high sec.
If you wish to discourage isk making in high sec space, do what others have done. Gank in high sec and pay the price without crying about it. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
567
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 13:20:00 -
[188] - Quote
Tara Read wrote: I was merely stating that HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as: 1. watching local. 2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another. 3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station. 4. use D scan. These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk....
Doing those things is not the problem.
The problem is that if we go to low sec to run a mission, someone (or group) will show up to hunt us, forcing us to jump safe to safe for 5 minutes waiting for the aggression timer to go away so we can log off safely, waiting for the hunter to get bored and move on, so we can come back.
All that "down time" from guns on red + DESTROIES the profitability. Move L4s to low sec, and you simply reduce the profitability of L4s to less than that of L3s in high sec without all the down time.
Null has the same problem. Sure, if local is blue, Null can be more profitable than high sec. Unfortunately, one cloaky camper, and the system is totally shut down. If I spend 75% of my time logged off, docked up, or sitting in the POS shield because of a single cloaky camper... well... there is nothing you can do to "balance" of high sec vs. null sec profit that makes null profitable enough to compensate for the fact that one cloaky camper can shut down an entire solar system.
Rock, Paper, Scissors works as a game because for every strategy, there is a counter. Rock, Paper, Scissors, Nuke Bomb... not so effective as a game. Cloaky camper = nuke bomb. There is no strategy to counter it, other than to not play when a cloaky camper show up.... or, as I've done... just move back to high sec. |
Reachok
Full Circle Research Corporation
10
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 13:36:00 -
[189] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec. One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation. Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills. While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec) There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer. Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away!
I didn't even bother reading the other posts. I'll even assume you're not just a bored person sitting in your cubicle somewhere just trolling for laughs.
You are wrong.
The vast majority of subscribers reside in high sec. Anything that pushes otherwise (mostly) happy subscribers into doing something that they do not want to do will result in those subscribers letting their accounts lapse.
Say what you want, give us all the reasons that you can dream up, this game IS a business. And high sec is the cash cow.
Some of you won't be happy until the cow is dead.
The bad guys went the other way, seriously.... |
Reachok
Full Circle Research Corporation
10
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 13:39:00 -
[190] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Tara Read wrote: I was merely stating that HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as: 1. watching local. 2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another. 3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station. 4. use D scan. These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... Doing those things is not the problem. The problem is that if we go to low sec to run a mission, someone (or group) will show up to hunt us, forcing us to jump safe to safe for 5 minutes waiting for the aggression timer to go away so we can log off safely, waiting for the hunter to get bored and move on, so we can come back. All that "down time" from guns on red + DESTROIES the profitability. Move L4s to low sec, and you simply reduce the profitability of L4s to less than that of L3s in high sec without all the down time. Null has the same problem. Sure, if local is blue, Null can be more profitable than high sec. Unfortunately, one cloaky camper, and the system is totally shut down. If I spend 75% of my time logged off, docked up, or sitting in the POS shield because of a single cloaky camper... well... there is nothing you can do to "balance" of high sec vs. null sec profit that makes null profitable enough to compensate for the fact that one cloaky camper can shut down an entire solar system. Rock, Paper, Scissors works as a game because for every strategy, there is a counter. Rock, Paper, Scissors, Nuke Bomb... not so effective as a game. Cloaky camper = nuke bomb. There is no strategy to counter it, other than to not play when a cloaky camper show up.... or, as I've done... just move back to high sec.
QFT!! This guy understands!!
The bad guys went the other way, seriously.... |
|
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
State War Academy Caldari State
184
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 14:00:00 -
[191] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:March rabbit wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. This is what makes the idea so awesome. translation: i don't need anything myself if it makes you lose something too It's pretty sad that you can make more money in nearly perfect safety running L4s as opposed to doing anoms in, say, low-sec. L4s are completely out of whack; L3s are plenty for high-sec.
First where is your source and where are your numbers?
What is sad is people come on the forums run their pie holes and have no idea what they have said.
If you honestly can say that null missions on upgraded sites makes less then lvl 4 missions then A. you have never done either lvl 4 missions or B. Never done upgraded null missions correctly or c. done neither. If your corp doesnt have the ability to keep the sites upgraded in null then maybe you should move back to hi-sec
To top it all off lvl 4 mission running and running missions in the blue doughnut are almost if not equal risk. If anything Null provides better safety from Intel and assumption all newts are there to kill you. I know because I do both. I run lvl 4 on another account when not able to in null.
Its easy to say something is better then the other when your not doing both. |
Fatbear
Starwinders SCUM.
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 14:03:00 -
[192] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Posting in another "we killed everything that moved in lowsec for no reason and now there's no more targets" thread.
What this man said. I'm a lowsec dweller too these days.
Removing L4s from highsec isn't the answer. Increasing the rewards of lowsec parallel to the risk is the answer. You've got L4s in high, and L4s in low; right now the difference in payout is minimal. Increase the benefits of moving into unsafe space, rather than penalising players for wanting to stay secure and you'll see more traffic.
As it stands though, with the number of pirate corps/alliances that sit on gates 24/7, we've (notice that, I said we, I'm a piwat too) over-culled our foodchain. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
146
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 14:45:00 -
[193] - Quote
The OP idea is obviously stupid. But somethign COULD be done to have more poeple in low sec. The same thing was made in FW.. make missiosn taht are FAST to complete and give good isk in low sec.
Special missions that can be completed within 5-10 minutes with a larger payout (around 70-100m/isk per hour) would draw a lot of people . Specially if they can be completed with smaller ship than battleships ( HAcs for example) |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
185
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 15:36:00 -
[194] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:The OP idea is obviously stupid. But somethign COULD be done to have more poeple in low sec. The same thing was made in FW.. make missiosn taht are FAST to complete and give good isk in low sec.
Special missions that can be completed within 5-10 minutes with a larger payout (around 70-100m/isk per hour) would draw a lot of people . Specially if they can be completed with smaller ship than battleships ( HAcs for example)
FW style missions in low-sec is a great idea. Fast, dangerous and doable in something smaller than a battleship. -á |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
94
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 15:51:00 -
[195] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: It's when they insist the opinion is truth simply by stating it, or putting it in print that the problem arises. Like the Louisiana school textbooks that state men and dinosaurs walked together. Oh yes indeed. Problems.
Louisiana is a myth, a state like that couldn't possibly exist. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1136
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 16:01:00 -
[196] - Quote
This is a gas thread, an old worn and tired gas thread at that. This is not a signature. |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
95
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 16:21:00 -
[197] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:March rabbit wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. This is what makes the idea so awesome. translation: i don't need anything myself if it makes you lose something too It's pretty sad that you can make more money in nearly perfect safety running L4s as opposed to doing anoms in, say, low-sec. L4s are completely out of whack; L3s are plenty for high-sec.
I used to do lvl 4 missions in high sec. make anywhere from 1-3b isk a week and nearly doubled that once I started farming enemies abound with 6 chars .
then the tag market crashed and I went to null some 9 months ago.. and was making 1-4b isk on a great day normally it became 300m a day. also did something that high sec aint done for me in years. made new friends.. friends I would give the last of my isk to and have done, people who made the game enjoyable again.
so basically.. moving to null/low sec is a life style choice. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1563
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 16:46:00 -
[198] - Quote
bufnitza calatoare wrote:so basically.. moving to null/low sec is a life style choice. I noticed a few months ago that the bounties I can earn running random anoms in low-sec are roughly equal to those one can earn doing L4s in high-sec. This assumes that I find a quiet system or two where I can spam anoms to my heart's content without interruption. However, L4s in high-sec also have mission rewards and can be salvaged in virtually complete safety, whereas running anoms carries a very real risk.
Your statement probably holds true for null-sec, but low-sec gets the shaft for any sort of grind income.
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:To top it all off lvl 4 mission running and running missions in the blue doughnut are almost if not equal risk. You are correct. Running missions in sov-null incurs exactly zero risk. Professional bad guys were unfortunately not available so instead they sent me. Voter response is quite good this time around: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qCaz2OlMecY/UWhTTh_NfFI/AAAAAAAAPOE/ryjfQkApycs/s1600/05.jpg |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
624
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 17:06:00 -
[199] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as: 1. watching local. 2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another. 3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station. 4. use D scan. These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... you missed one important part:
5. abandoning accepted mission because local pirates made it so you have no chance to finish it |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
95
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 17:09:00 -
[200] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Tara Read wrote:HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as: 1. watching local. 2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another. 3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station. 4. use D scan. These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... you missed one important part: 5. abandoning accepted mission because local pirates made it so you have no chance to finish it
youmissed out on, don't need to if you are said pirates. |
|
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
624
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 17:44:00 -
[201] - Quote
bufnitza calatoare wrote:March rabbit wrote:Tara Read wrote:HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as: 1. watching local. 2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another. 3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station. 4. use D scan. These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... you missed one important part: 5. abandoning accepted mission because local pirates made it so you have no chance to finish it youmissed out on, don't need to if you are said pirates. said pirates are already in low-sec.
and we are speaking here about high-sec dwellers who will need to do this rather often than seldom |
Aston Martin DB5
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 18:22:00 -
[202] - Quote
NO! So put that in your juice box and suck it.
Why you ask, because I'm drinking on Kool-aid, what come at me! |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3433
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 19:04:00 -
[203] - Quote
My opinion of what needs to happen for missions HERE.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
570
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 19:17:00 -
[204] - Quote
bufnitza calatoare wrote: then the tag market crashed and I went to null some 9 months ago.. and was making 1-4b isk on a great day normally it became 300m a day. also did something that high sec aint done for me in years. made new friends.. friends I would give the last of my isk to and have done, people who made the game enjoyable again.
so basically.. moving to null/low sec is a life style choice.
And how much do yu make when a cloaky camper shows up?
I've moved to null a couple times. Get set up, making decent profit, one cloaky camper shows up and shuts down the system for weeks.... back to high sec for me.
I'd rather make less ISK an hour in high, then be camped in by a single cloaky. |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
373
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 19:20:00 -
[205] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:My opinion of what needs to happen for missions HERE.
How dare you like yourself??
:D
Reading time. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
570
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 19:27:00 -
[206] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:My opinion of what needs to happen for missions HERE.
TLDR: Anyone that doesn't play the way you want them to is playing wrong.
The arrogance of some people is beyond measure.
"We want flowers with teeth.
The reason why most players avoid and/or hate PvP is due to a lack of knowledge brought about via missioning."
Oh my gawd, you arrogant, ignorant, pompous moron!!!!!!
You have NO FREAKIN' CLUE!!!!!
"Force them to meet up with another player at the mission gate. "
As if you have the power to "force" anyone to do anything, except quit the game if they can't play the way they enjoy playing. |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
95
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 19:45:00 -
[207] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:bufnitza calatoare wrote: then the tag market crashed and I went to null some 9 months ago.. and was making 1-4b isk on a great day normally it became 300m a day. also did something that high sec aint done for me in years. made new friends.. friends I would give the last of my isk to and have done, people who made the game enjoyable again.
so basically.. moving to null/low sec is a life style choice.
And how much do yu make when a cloaky camper shows up? I've moved to null a couple times. Get set up, making decent profit, one cloaky camper shows up and shuts down the system for weeks.... back to high sec for me. I'd rather make less ISK an hour in high, then be camped in by a single cloaky.
well funny you should say that...
I been in null sec for near on 9 months now.
when we was in immensea we got the odd cloaky every week nothing major.
we then moved to a -1.0 system in the drone regions pretty much on order of our ceo/director. we got camped near 90% of the time.
now we live in feythabolis. and we get even less campers than we did in immensea.
also we know how to deal with afk cloakers.. do you?? oh of course not you went back to empire. what ya do is.. see if they hold any null sec space.. send you own afk cloaker up there.. sooner or later you get offered .. if you leave our afk cloaker leaves.
its all about meta mechanics |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3433
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 20:04:00 -
[208] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:My opinion of what needs to happen for missions HERE. TLDR: Anyone that doesn't play the way you want them to is playing wrong. The arrogance of some people is beyond measure. "We want flowers with teeth. The reason why most players avoid and/or hate PvP is due to a lack of knowledge brought about via missioning." Oh my gawd, you arrogant, ignorant, pompous moron!!!!!! You have NO FREAKIN' CLUE!!!!! "Force them to meet up with another player at the mission gate. " As if you have the power to "force" anyone to do anything, except quit the game if they can't play the way they enjoy playing. You are cherry picking hard core there bro...
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Princess Missie
FLA5HY RED
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 23:54:00 -
[209] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tara Read wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tara Read wrote:I never said they did. However these people ***** and moan when they are killed because they expect their precious CONCORD to protect them. It's like guards in Stormwind only in space (see how I made that easier for you to relate to?)
The point is these people have become too comfortable. And judging from the outcries in this thread any sort of risk or danger is seen as an affront to your precious afk game play. Why don't you learn the mechanics? Why don't you outsmart gankers? it's not hard to do.
All it is is laziness in my eyes. You know what? I see more anti-carebears ***** and whine than I see carebears do it. And in case we forget, the outcry on this very thread, if you haven't noticed, is to have the game mechanics changed in favor of the ganker over the mission runner. And there are a couple of other whine threads on the very first page of GD asking for game mechanics to be changed to suit gankers over carebears. This notion that "carebears" are whiners while deliberately ignoring the fact that gankers tend to be just as whiny (or worse) seriously needs to stop. I would suggest you follow your own advice and stop asking CCP to change the game mechanics to suit you and find ways to lure and gank your soft targets. What are you smoking? I never suggested mechanics be changed to favor gankers so DON'T make asshat comments without first reading and digesting the information given to you. I suggested changing pve content in low sec to favor more traffic and a reason to bring people back to these regions besides pvp. See bold above. You tell me to "go learn the game mechanics" (insinuating I don't already) and I tell you to stop bitching and whining and go play the game. Again, follow your own advice. Follow my own advise? I don't live in high sec yet I know it's mechanics and how to exploit them. I was merely stating that HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as: 1. watching local. 2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another. 3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station. 4. use D scan. These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk....
tara read still talking **** |
Mei Sui
Justified Chaos
13
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 00:29:00 -
[210] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:My opinion of what needs to happen for missions HERE.
Great article Marlona. I enjoyed reading it and I think we're on the same page even with different methods. I think the crux of the argument is still the same, the lack of a scale in risk along with the rewards.
The moving agents idea is a good one as long as the rewards scale with them as they move out. Maybe a difficult to implement, but well worth it. And give real incentive in sticking with a particular agent so that they follow them. If they switch to someone they don't know, they start at the bottom of the ladder again. |
|
Drogdasan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 03:32:00 -
[211] - Quote
This carebear drinks the tears of the crying PvPers and loves it. This carebear is getting full on your tears. This carebear will now go and run afk missions to burn it all off. |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
96
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 04:55:00 -
[212] - Quote
Drogdasan wrote:This carebear drinks the tears of the crying PvPers and loves it. This carebear is getting full on your tears. This carebear will now go and run afk missions to burn it all off.
how the **** do you come to that conclusion? |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Sons Of Alexander AL3XAND3R.
496
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 05:08:00 -
[213] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:TLDR: Anyone that doesn't play the way you want them to is playing wrong. Maybe you're just playing the game badly.
bufnitza calatoare wrote:its all about meta mechanics 99% of carebears are unaware this game has any meta mechanics. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
96
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 05:17:00 -
[214] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:My opinion of what needs to happen for missions HERE. TLDR: Anyone that doesn't play the way you want them to is playing wrong. .
so by your very own statement.. anyone NOT playing the game your way is doing it wrong too... |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
572
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 05:50:00 -
[215] - Quote
bufnitza calatoare wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:My opinion of what needs to happen for missions HERE. TLDR: Anyone that doesn't play the way you want them to is playing wrong. . so by your very own statement.. anyone NOT playing the game your way is doing it wrong too...
Nothing can be further from the truth.
I don't think that those that want to trade ammo in space are playing wrong. I don't think people that manage hundreds of orders or run market manipulations are playing wrong. I don't think those that grind sov are playing wrong. I don't think those that put up gate camps in low thinking themselves great pirates, are playing wrong. I could go on..
Play how you want. Let me play how I want. And stop this arrogant, ignorant Bull Dung that I'm only a carebear because I just don't know any better.
The people that I think are wrong, are the people so arrogant, that they think they know what I would enjoy more than I know what I enjoy. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
572
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 05:51:00 -
[216] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:My opinion of what needs to happen for missions HERE. Great article Marlona. I enjoyed reading it and I think we're on the same page even with different methods. I think the crux of the argument is still the same, the lack of a scale in risk along with the rewards.
You can never balance risk with reward, because the risk creates large chunks of time that you can't be generating ISK, destroying the reward.
|
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3439
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 05:57:00 -
[217] - Quote
Well the idea I talked about in the article would royally **** up mission bots. Is that what you are worried about LHA Tarawa?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
572
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 06:05:00 -
[218] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Well the idea I talked about in the article would royally **** up mission bots. Is that what you are worried about LHA Tarawa?
Not at all.
I am mostly a miner these days... and no, I don't bot that either.
What I'm worrid about is the arrogance and ignorance displayed in your article, and all over these boards, that anyone that plays differently that you is "playing wrong".
Go play how ever you want. But, QUIT telling me how I should play!
You do NOT know my subjective tastes, better than I do!
Let this sink into you tiny little brain. I actually know what I enjoy (harvesting resources, making ISK, hanging out with friends, low stress, avoiding conflict) and what I do NOT enjoy (stress, conflict, immature punks looking for easy kills worried about KB stats and epeen).
I play EVE for the cooperative elements, NOT the conflict elements. AND, not because someone "miss trained me". |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
96
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 06:12:00 -
[219] - Quote
speaking f bots and you are playing the game wrong..
being a 2004 player my self.
I have seen many a solo player who refuses to play the game as a mmo and as a single player game, they end up not getting anywhere in the game.. buy isk from isk sellers and items.. then they lose it to Captain CCP.
now if "those" solo mmo'ers had at least made an attempt to play the game as a MMO that is ment to be based around pvp in all its forms.. then maybe they will see the game in a new light.
I my self truly started to see the game as a mmo when I started camping 3/10s in high sec.
it was a race to the last room with around 20 players all racing to the final room. we would fit our ships to get there ahead of everyone else.
from there I went to proper pvp .
rest is history |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3439
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 06:43:00 -
[220] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Let this sink into you tiny little brain. I actually know what I enjoy (harvesting resources, making ISK, hanging out with friends, low stress, avoiding conflict) and what I do NOT enjoy (stress, conflict, immature punks looking for easy kills worried about KB stats and epeen).
I play EVE for the cooperative elements, NOT the conflict elements. AND, not because someone "miss trained me". "Easy kills" would apply far less than they do now. Why do you hate the idea of learning something new and change?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
|
Dave Stark
2628
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 06:44:00 -
[221] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:I am mostly a miner these days...
actually, you're a chronic whiner. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1136
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 06:46:00 -
[222] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Well the idea I talked about in the article would royally **** up mission bots. Is that what you are worried about LHA Tarawa?
Suspect some folk are mission botting?
Report them to CCP they will deal with it.
Mission locations are fine as they are. This is not a signature. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 12:12:00 -
[223] - Quote
I believe you are misreading the motive here. I don't think anybody here is looking for you to change. Your attitude and personality is what makes the idea of ganking your precious ships or at least inconveniencing your play style so attractive.
|
Eisen Kern
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 12:22:00 -
[224] - Quote
If there's a change to the accessibility of agent missions, it should be to add level 5's to high sec rather than to remove level 4's. Removing content from players rarely goes down as well as adding content. |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 12:37:00 -
[225] - Quote
Three words: Level 6 Missions
Put those babies in null. Make the payout stupidly high. Watch the null sec alliances be crushed by a tidal wave of ISK-hungry carebears stampeding into their space to get at the ultimate carebear experience. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 12:51:00 -
[226] - Quote
The funny thing is that it's not even that simple to tackle a mission runner in a dead space room. More often than not the acceleration gate lands you miles and miles away, with no way to warp on top of him (dead space).
This leaves you with the option to burn to him, with rats deciding to dps/neut the newcomer, giving your target ample time to warp off. If that's not a level playing field, I don't know what is... it is actually far easier to gank an explorer.
Of course, few carebears actually realize this, as they are simply to cowardly to try.
|
Aracimia Wolfe
The Cursed Navy
236
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 12:58:00 -
[227] - Quote
I endorse the OP's product and/or service.
Also confirming I just want to watch the world burn Malcanis for CSM 8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717 \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ m8m8m8m8m8m8m8 o7
|
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
628
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 13:16:00 -
[228] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:The funny thing is that it's not even that simple to tackle a mission runner in a dead space room. the funny thing is: you don't need to tackle, kill or anything carebear. You just need to make his mission impossible to complete and you win.
Scan him and visit in his mission -> he warps away wait for him to return visit him in his mission -> he warps away
repeat this a couple of times and you killed all profit from mission. You didn't kill carebear (it matters to you) but you killed his profit (it matters to him). And carebear has nothing to protect himself from killing his profit by pirates. Which is plain stupid |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 13:25:00 -
[229] - Quote
I see your point, but if he warps off he kills my profit too: the loot from his wreck.
Another way to deal with harassment is to trap the pirate on the gate, but I guess I should know better than to imagine that a likely course of action for your dedicated mission runner...
What is it about isk that makes it the sole driving force that trumps any other consideration for you? Really.... |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1503
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 13:38:00 -
[230] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:My opinion of what needs to happen for missions HERE.
So, every player should be forced to learn to be like you? Play your way or go away? Is that the best you can come with?
The fix to PvE is better PvE, not PvP. There is no way to force into PvP someone not willing to. They will rather quit than play your way.
And something may be really wrong with PvP, provided the amounts of whine the PvP bunch drops on the forums. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
|
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
83
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 13:50:00 -
[231] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:The funny thing is that it's not even that simple to tackle a mission runner in a dead space room... It isn't! I didn't know that.
Awhile back my Corp was wardec by a pirate corp. Since I believe in know your enemy, I began following the killboard (wins, losses and loadouts) and putting them all on contacts... to watch and learn. While many of them were impressive in their abilities one stood out over the others. This toon was killing mission runners on the order of six a day. Faction battleship, Tengus, etc. While my knowledge of what it takes to do this is limited at best, I had to believe this is a player with a strong understanding of the game and very good combat skills. Impressive.
You are telling me that it is even harder than I thought?
All I can say.
|
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 13:54:00 -
[232] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote: Impressive. You are telling me that it is even harder than I thought? All I can say.
I don't know who or where he was hunting and certainly, killboards don't tell you where he caught them beyond the system.. be it on a gate or in dead space or wherever.
What I can safely say is that you should consider the possibility that his victims were extremely ignorant and/or stupid. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
83
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 14:01:00 -
[233] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:"...The reason why most players avoid and/or hate PvP is due to a lack of knowledge brought about via missioning..." The reason most players avoid active PvP... is that isn't what they want to do. Trying to force them to seek it out will fail. You would be better off advocate helping those who want to or might want PvP, but are unable to find that path. You are pushing the concept that 'those people' don't know what is good for them, but you do. Change the game to force them to play a 'style'.
There are people in this game that no interest in seeking out PvP... they never will.
Note: There is huge difference in the game allowing ganking (PvP) and trying to force people into combat ships that have no interest. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
83
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 14:08:00 -
[234] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:
I don't know who or where he was hunting and certainly, killboards don't tell you where he caught them beyond the system.. be it on a gate or in dead space or wherever.
What I can safely say is that you should consider the possibility that his victims were extremely ignorant and/or stupid.
Rats were on the kill mails in highsec, so I guessed while ratting. I could be wrong.
I will not comment on the intelligence on the thousands killed, just the skill of this player. You indicated it was harder than I thought... I am more impressed with that players abilities.
|
Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 14:15:00 -
[235] - Quote
Shouldnt it be a case of some missions send you to lowsec - those should be 'doubly' rewarded? Lets say you get 5k LP for 'The Assault' in 0.5 - then make it 20k in 0.4, 30k 0.2 etc. Not specifically all missions, but enough to 'tease' those in that want the rewards. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 14:16:00 -
[236] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:[quote=Moneta Curran] I will not comment on the intelligence on the thousands killed, just the skill of this player. You indicated it was harder than I thought... I am more impressed with that players abilities.
That's cool, no arguing with you there.
Was his the solo ship on these mails? Was he flying something cloaked? Regardless of sec status of the particular systems the ganks occured in, one would think they should have been aware of his presence.. AFAIK there are no missions in WH space. |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
630
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 14:56:00 -
[237] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:I see your point, but if he warps off he kills my profit too: the loot from his wreck. I don't consider it a "win" if he doesn't explode.
yes, this is your point
Moneta Curran wrote:What is it about isk that makes it the sole driving force that trumps any other consideration for you? Really.... this is carebear point: you spend some time on mission. If you haven't got any profit - you lost.
Using pirate language: you spend some hours roaming and returned without any fights. This is lost.
Question "what is it about ISK that makes ...." towards carebear is like "what is it about KILLS that makes ..." towards pirate. |
Sentamon
825
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 15:00:00 -
[238] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Three words: Level 6 Missions
Watch the null sec alliances be crushed by a tidal wave of ISK-hungry carebears stampeding into their space to get at the ultimate carebear experience.
and then you woke up ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1244
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 15:12:00 -
[239] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec. One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation. Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills. While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec) There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer. Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away!
You really don't get it, do you? Or you're just trolling the same, tired line...
It's almost cute. Almost. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Anunzi
High House Of Shadows Tribal Band
103
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 15:18:00 -
[240] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
[...] The fix to PvE is better PvE, not PvP. There is no way to force into PvP someone not willing to. They will rather quit than play your way. [...]
I think a solution to lot of EvEGÇÖs issues from my perspective would be to make pve play more like pvp.
Its something that has always baffled me about EvE, why should the same hull require a completely different setup to fight ships controlled by players and ships controlled by npcs.
When you really think about it, it makes very little sense.
That way ratters/mission runners/explorers would not be at a inherent disadvantage against pvp fit ships.
Malcanis for CSM8, Its about damn time.
A vote for Malcanis is a vote for bacon! |
|
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 15:20:00 -
[241] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Question "what is it about ISK that makes ...." towards carebear is like "what is it about KILLS that makes ..." towards pirate.
hmmm "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?" |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
542
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 15:23:00 -
[242] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:this is carebear point: you spend some time on mission. If you haven't got any profit - you lost.
Using pirate language: you spend some hours roaming and returned without any fights. This is lost.
Question "what is it about ISK that makes ...." towards carebear is like "what is it about KILLS that makes ..." towards pirate. QFT.
The problem, I think, is that someone that accepts PVP as the only way to enjoy and have fun in Eve won't understand that there are players that enjoy doing missions, mining, exploring, etc.
As you point out, a (pure) mission runner is in lo sec to run missions. Interrupting his missions has already defeated his purpose for being there in the first place.
I use the word "pure" because there will be other types of mission runners, such as those looking to add a bit of more danger to their playstyle. For these guys the extra risk and excitement is worth the loss in profits. They won't mind being constantly interrupted. But, I suspect these players may already be in lo sec, in which case the OP again, accomplishes at best, minimal to no results.
|
Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
37
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 15:40:00 -
[243] - Quote
Have no fear.
CCP (or some subset within the corp) is intent on wrecking high sec income. Expect some kind of nerf to mission-running announced at Fanfest or slipped into the patch notes before June 4th.
What it will be is up in the air. Could be new taxes on mission runners, could be a reduction in bounties, could be a big nerf in loot drops (again).
I am betting on the loot drops getting hammered even more than they were last year, plus refining taxes and loss of 100% high sec refine. The last one hits all of high sec, which is why I expect to see that one put in place. |
Le Badass
Zealots of Bob
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 15:48:00 -
[244] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:The funny thing is that it's not even that simple to tackle a mission runner in a dead space room. the funny thing is: you don't need to tackle, kill or anything carebear. You just need to make his mission impossible to complete and you win. Scan him and visit in his mission -> he warps away wait for him to return visit him in his mission -> he warps away repeat this a couple of times and you killed all profit from mission. You didn't kill carebear (it matters to you) but you killed his profit (it matters to him). And carebear has nothing to protect himself from killing his profit by pirates. Which is plain stupid
Oh God... |
Random Majere
Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 15:54:00 -
[245] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:The funny thing is that it's not even that simple to tackle a mission runner in a dead space room. the funny thing is: you don't need to tackle, kill or anything carebear. You just need to make his mission impossible to complete and you win. Scan him and visit in his mission -> he warps away wait for him to return visit him in his mission -> he warps away repeat this a couple of times and you killed all profit from mission. You didn't kill carebear (it matters to you) but you killed his profit (it matters to him). And carebear has nothing to protect himself from killing his profit by pirates. Which is plain stupid
And if the missioner comes back with a PvP fitted ship...do you warp away?
|
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
631
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 15:58:00 -
[246] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:March rabbit wrote:Question "what is it about ISK that makes ...." towards carebear is like "what is it about KILLS that makes ..." towards pirate. hmmm nice movie for little children never watched tho. maybe i should show it to my 7 yo daughter?
Moneta Curran wrote:"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?" haven't got your point here tho. explain a little? |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
372
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 16:03:00 -
[247] - Quote
As a highsec solo player I'd have no reason to own, or skill for battleships if level 4 missions were moved to lowsec. I think that would take a huge chunk out of the game for me. I probably would quit at that point. Level 4's provide just enough variety on top of industry to make highsec worth sticking around for. Tried the nullsec lifestyle a few years ago and hated it....and I imagine there are many pilots like me around. Shrug.
|
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
631
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 16:13:00 -
[248] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:And if the missioner comes back with a PvP fitted ship...do you warp away? me? i call my mates and we kill him with our gang. Because 99% of mission runners are in NPC corp and have no friends (another "fact" from forums) it will be easy
or i drop a cyno....
Anyway: pirate has initiative in this situation. Not carebear
|
Kangaax
I ain't got me ground legs yet
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 16:16:00 -
[249] - Quote
Since it seems pirates created yet another "more free targets in lowsec pls", i will suggest another thing: What about in lowsec, the police still spawns in a delay relative to the security status of the system up to 1 minute, BUT make it faction police and not CONCORD. This way you could get away even after a police intervention, and it balances the risk for pirates when you get jumped on - because they all talk about risk vs reward, but it's so risky jumping a PVE ship it makes my head spin. Basically, you get a 30s-1min timer after aggressing someone before you have to run. This way moving lvl4 missions to lowsec would not end up in noone doing them anymore. Deal? |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3443
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 16:17:00 -
[250] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Random Majere wrote:And if the missioner comes back with a PvP fitted ship...do you warp away? me? i call my mates and we kill him with our gang. Because 99% of mission runners are in NPC corp and have no friends (another "fact" from forums) it will be easy or i drop a cyno.... Anyway: pirate has initiative in this situation. Not carebear Wow. You are so brave.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
|
Random Majere
Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 16:23:00 -
[251] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Random Majere wrote:And if the missioner comes back with a PvP fitted ship...do you warp away? me? i call my mates and we kill him with our gang. Because 99% of mission runners are in NPC corp and have no friends (another "fact" from forums) it will be easy or i drop a cyno.... Anyway: pirate has initiative in this situation. Not carebear
You drop a cyno in high sec? I guess your talking about mission runners in low and NPC null then.
Also, why would you not solo the guy? Are you afraid of being in a 1 vs 1? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3995
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 16:39:00 -
[252] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.
One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec
This does not apply, neither to RL nor to EvE, that tries imitating some "realism flavour" (the famous "EvE is real!" motto).
So, no, you are wrong since the premise and thus your whole argument is invalidated.
Moreover, making EvE as linear, predictable and canned as WoW (i.e. canned progression, canned rewards etc.) is certainly not an EvE way to implement a MMO.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
631
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 16:44:00 -
[253] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:March rabbit wrote:Random Majere wrote:And if the missioner comes back with a PvP fitted ship...do you warp away? me? i call my mates and we kill him with our gang. Because 99% of mission runners are in NPC corp and have no friends (another "fact" from forums) it will be easy or i drop a cyno.... Anyway: pirate has initiative in this situation. Not carebear You drop a cyno in high sec? I guess your talking about mission runners in low and NPC null then. i would advice you to read few first posts of this thread at least read thread topic
|
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 17:04:00 -
[254] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:March rabbit wrote:Question "what is it about ISK that makes ...." towards carebear is like "what is it about KILLS that makes ..." towards pirate. hmmm nice movie for little children never watched tho. maybe i should show it to my 7 yo daughter? Moneta Curran wrote:"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?" haven't got your point here tho. explain a little?
It is a nice one, I was around her age when it came out. My point is that with motives so directly at odds with each other, there's never going to be a middle ground here.
Consider that those who do engage in PvP have chosen not to limit their adventures to the 'challenge' of defeating predictable NPCs in forever repeating scenario's.. they can do all that and more. Even if we can recognize that it is relaxing and carefree, it's not very.. respectable.. to forever hide behind CONCORD.
edit: it's sorta like staying at home masturbating vs. going out and trying to get laid. |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
631
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 17:17:00 -
[255] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote: My point is that with motives so directly at odds with each other, there's never going to be a middle ground here.
well. it worked in RL (times of sea pirates and Columb). How did it work? Just few my ideas: - big reward: one succeeded trip makes you crazy rich, you don't need to make another trip (Eve Online: 1 lvl4 makes you 25-30millions for 1-2 hours. You need to have 200 millions BS to complete it) - big ocean, you can move for a days without any contacts if you are lucky (Eve Online: you entered local, everybody noticed it, 1 cycle of d-scan - your ship already known, a couple of seconds and your mission area is pinpointed and ready to warp to) - dangers: all ships deal with the same dangers - ocean, wind, other people. No bears and no PvPers there. (Eve Online: PvE missions need completely different fits than useful for PvP) - maybe something?
Looks like we have had these factors in Eve Online some years ago. But now....
I think there is nothing impossible to implement here.
Moneta Curran wrote:... respectable.. i fear that this word is not known in Eve Online these days |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 17:25:00 -
[256] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:... respectable.. i fear that this word is not known in Eve Online these days
Nah.. that's not true.. it's what makes people set each other blue. You show some teeth and you are recognized for it.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1506
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 19:25:00 -
[257] - Quote
Anunzi wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
[...] The fix to PvE is better PvE, not PvP. There is no way to force into PvP someone not willing to. They will rather quit than play your way. [...]
I think a solution to lot of EvEGÇÖs issues from my perspective would be to make pve play more like pvp. Its something that has always baffled me about EvE, why should the same hull require a completely different setup to fight ships controlled by players and ships controlled by npcs. When you really think about it, it makes very little sense. That way ratters/mission runners/explorers would not be at a inherent disadvantage against pvp fit ships.
Well, at one point, I suggested something like that. Add new agents that led to mission that required a PvP-like fit to succeed.
Regretfully, CCP read that their way and the last we knew was a hint that maybe ALL PvE would be changed to require PvP -like fits, through AI changes. It would be very typical for CCP to destroy PvE fits in the assumption that someone who invested months, endless hours and several billions in one of those fits, won't object to have al that scrapped because CCP "knows better".
What really pisses me off, is how certain play styles are considered, not "underdeveloped" or "abandoned for years" or "ugly ducklings", but "wrong" and thus must be "corrected" and become like "cool" gameplay... The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
IrJosy
Club 1621 Goonswarm Federation
45
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 23:38:00 -
[258] - Quote
Make mission runners easier to hunt and kill too please. Scanning them with probes is hard. |
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
174
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 23:50:00 -
[259] - Quote
This discussion has been going on for years.
All i see is a bunch of losec bums wanting losec to be buffed/hisec being nerfed and hisec bears wanting things to stay as is.
give losec more content and leave this whole l4 missioncatastrophe in hisec. they like it. Everybody saying l4 mission should be moved to losec is a bear and should be in hisec.
|
Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
201
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 00:28:00 -
[260] - Quote
I would go to lowsec if there was anything worth the risk, L4 as they are, are not worth the risk. |
|
iskflakes
404
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 00:36:00 -
[261] - Quote
This is a very good idea. - |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2623
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 01:03:00 -
[262] - Quote
Kangaax wrote:Since it seems pirates created yet another "more free targets in lowsec pls", i will suggest another thing: What about in lowsec, the police still spawns in a delay relative to the security status of the system up to 1 minute, BUT make it faction police and not CONCORD. This way you could get away even after a police intervention, and it balances the risk for pirates when you get jumped on - because they all talk about risk vs reward, but it's so risky jumping a PVE ship it makes my head spin. Basically, you get a 30s-1min timer after aggressing someone before you have to run. This way moving lvl4 missions to lowsec would not end up in noone doing them anymore. Deal?
This would be interesting. I can imagine a chance for escape but not a I WIN button for the mission runner, while throwing in occasional officer spawn on that faction police spawn could mean more loot for the lowsec crowd.
I would also manage the response time more around the standings of the mission runner and where the mission runner is. If someone with high Gallente faction goes into Amarr lowsec where he has low Amarr faction standings, he's on his own. If he goes to Gallente lowsec he's got a chance of aid based on that faction standing.
The higher the faction standing the faster the response AND/OR the better the spawn. This is a seesaw really: a high standing meaning a fast response means that researching the target in local could decide if the pirate team can handle it, but if the size of the response is also improved (more chance of officer spawn) then the offending side could also gauge more reward for the additional risk. The ship they are targeting could also be a factor - is your target in brutally tanked ship that could last long enough for help to arrive or is it merely a T1 cruiser that will go pop under a few Thrashers?
But it would also be prudent for there to be faction standings losses for every time they gotta send the Navy to go rescue your ass so it's not abused.
I think that kind of compromise would make lowsec stop being a garanteed loss and increase the action in lowsec along with potential for more loot.
Still, since it's not in the paradigm of total ship raep masquerading as PVP, nobody would support such an idea. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 01:29:00 -
[263] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Still, since it's not in the paradigm of total ship raep masquerading as PVP, nobody would support such an idea.
So this intervention force would swoop down to save you upon any act of aggression?
.. and you want this pet NPC patrol to become stronger the more dedicated a carebear you have been in past ages? I am sure newbies everywhere will applaud the idea of having even less of a fighting chance.
TBH the whole idea sucks, you are basically advocating bringing CONCORD to low sec. I suppose the concept of having to fend for yourself is just too alien to consider... |
MrDiao
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 11:37:00 -
[264] - Quote
Typically a troll op followed by loads of off-topic debates.
Moving lv5 to low-sec has not changed much on carebears, the same as lv4s.
If op really believes that anyone in ccp would consider things in this way, either you are terribly underestimate ccp staff's intelligence or they appeared to you that they are stupid as such. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
352
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 11:47:00 -
[265] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Tara Read wrote: I was merely stating that HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as: 1. watching local. 2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another. 3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station. 4. use D scan. These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... Doing those things is not the problem. The problem is that if we go to low sec to run a mission, someone (or group) will show up to hunt us, forcing us to jump safe to safe for 5 minutes waiting for the aggression timer to go away so we can log off safely, waiting for the hunter to get bored and move on, so we can come back. All that "down time" from guns on red + DESTROIES the profitability. Move L4s to low sec, and you simply reduce the profitability of L4s to less than that of L3s in high sec without all the down time. Null has the same problem. Sure, if local is blue, Null can be more profitable than high sec. Unfortunately, one cloaky camper, and the system is totally shut down. If I spend 75% of my time logged off, docked up, or sitting in the POS shield because of a single cloaky camper... well... there is nothing you can do to "balance" of high sec vs. null sec profit that makes null profitable enough to compensate for the fact that one cloaky camper can shut down an entire solar system. Rock, Paper, Scissors works as a game because for every strategy, there is a counter. Rock, Paper, Scissors, Nuke Bomb... not so effective as a game. Cloaky camper = nuke bomb. There is no strategy to counter it, other than to not play when a cloaky camper show up.... or, as I've done... just move back to high sec.
Again I never stated moving Level 4's to low sec and as far as profitability it's there with level 5's you just need to blitz them correctly. Like I stated earlier risk vs reward. The main problem is the reward is vastly outweighed by the risk which is partly low sec's problem.
Without a desire to go to low sec with content, it creates stagnation. That's my main gripe not moving missions and choking peoples ability to earn a profit in Eve. All i desire is more content for all. That isn't too much to ask is it?
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Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
352
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 11:49:00 -
[266] - Quote
Princess Missie wrote:tara read still talking ****
Umm not really. If half the high sec players would just watch local and use D scan alot of ganks would probably be avoided.
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Radamant Nemess
Caribbean Coke Enterprises
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 12:06:00 -
[267] - Quote
Yeah wise*ss, move them to lowsec and eve loses several thousand players.. i can fail at any speed you like |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 12:23:00 -
[268] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:... If half the high sec players would just watch local...
In Highsec? I leave station in Highsec and there are +80 people in local. During the next 30 minutes 10-20 will leave and another 10-20 will enter.... 95% of whom are set neutral. What does this do for me? Sure if someone is 'flashy' there is a situation somewhere, but this is usually after the fact.
In 0.0 or lowsec local gives me immediate intel... 'Blue' = good, 'Red' = bad, 'neutral' = bad waiting to happen. In highsec this is not the case. Local is a very weak tool in highsec... that doesn't mean I don't watch it, but it is massively weaker tool in highsec. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 12:39:00 -
[269] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:... Like I stated earlier risk vs reward. The main problem is the reward is vastly outweighed by the risk which is partly low sec's problem. Without a desire to go to low sec with content, it creates stagnation. That's my main gripe not ...
I agree with this. However,... (you knew that was coming)... L4s are the wrong way to go. Moving L5s was extremely stupid also.
You start at the other end of the equation: in tutorial or L1s. In L1s after 10 missions offer an optional bonus mission: high ISK reward and little no ISK risk to lowsec. If accepted, put the L1 player in a T1 frigate and give them a mission into lowssec to do something. Should they be destroyed (and they will often), the L1 runner will have lost nothing. (make sure implants are protected). Risk of being destroyed high, payout high, actual ISK loss at stake for the new player,,, nothing.
Teach new players who are interested that losing a ship isn't the end of the world. Show them that lowsec while dangerous can be managed/enjoyed. A 1M ISK reward to drop of a piece of paper to a level 1 runner is huge, especially if their risk is nothing.
No one is force to do it.... many will try... some will like it.
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Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 12:40:00 -
[270] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Local is a very weak tool in highsec... that doesn't mean I don't watch it, but it is massively weaker tool in highsec.
I'm pretty sure he meant whenever they venture into low sec. Still, you could also reconfigure your overview?
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Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
327
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 12:48:00 -
[271] - Quote
posting on page 10+ New inventory: Getting better since version 1.2, but what about back and forward buttons? |
Unoob Udumb
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 12:57:00 -
[272] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Like I stated earlier risk vs reward. The main problem is the reward is vastly outweighed by the risk which is partly low sec's problem.
You do realize that the issue comes from the "A SHIP/POD! KILL! KILL! KILL!" mentality of most low-sec dwellers, right?
Let's say a large group of players locked down a hi-sec system by suicide-ganking anyone entering it. Would you ask CCP to move all hi-sec agents in this particular system? Or to buff the rewards of missions in this system? The problem is player-side, not game mechanics-side.
Tara Read wrote:All i desire is more content for all. That isn't too much to ask is it?
I don't think forcing Hi-sec mission runners to leave the game or to run L3s (because, let's face it, they wouldn't move to lowsec) is the right way to create "more content for all". |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 13:05:00 -
[273] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:I'm pretty sure he meant whenever they venture into low sec. Still, you could also reconfigure your overview? My mistake.
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Bi-Mi Lansatha
Tactical Universal Research and Development Caldari Industrialist Association
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 13:15:00 -
[274] - Quote
Unoob Udumb wrote: You do realize that the issue comes from the "A SHIP/POD! KILL! KILL! KILL!" mentality of most low-sec dwellers, right?
I use a no skill alt as a scout in lowsec. When it gets podded, I send the killer a smiley face. My suffering/Isk loss is fairly low in this situation.
If a week old player had a 50% of receiving a 1M ISK, with no chnace of ISK loss on his part...what is the problem? |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
632
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 13:23:00 -
[275] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Local is a very weak tool in highsec... that doesn't mean I don't watch it, but it is massively weaker tool in highsec. I'm pretty sure he meant whenever they venture into low sec. Still, you could also reconfigure your overview? overview only shows you ships on your grid. How it will help with local? |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
632
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 13:43:00 -
[276] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:I suppose the concept of having to fend for yourself is just too alien to consider... it's not alien. but you don't like this concept already. because carebears already do "fend to yourself": they have chosen high-sec
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Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 13:53:00 -
[277] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:Still, you could also reconfigure your overview? overview only shows you ships on your grid. How it will help with local?
also.
March rabbit wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:I suppose the concept of having to fend for yourself is just too alien to consider... it's not alien. but you don't like this concept already. because carebears already do "fend to yourself": they have chosen high-sec
fend for yourself GÇö phrasal verb with fend
/fend/ verb Definition to take care of and provide for yourself without depending on anyone else
anyone or anything in this context, be it CONCORD or your own personal guard of faction police as that guy was proposing.. |
Solj RichPopolous
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
34
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 13:53:00 -
[278] - Quote
I endorse this product and or service. It benefits my business of deadspace trading. I trade at least 40-50 items daily with the lowest of profits typically being 20 mil per each some as high as 300-400 mil. This is where the real money is go scrap for your pennies in the mind numbingness of missions. The more deadspace dies the more it comes back to me.
Oh how I love the feeling of receiving a 600 mil module for 300 mil on buy order. Then subsequently looking up the seller and seeing that he just ganked some missioner. And as an EVE online space republican I'm very against the accumulation of wealth by other individuals other than those in my posse.
So with that I say send the missions to low-sec I will probably kill a few myself. If they want to stay in high sec and scrap even less pennies that's their own problem. |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
632
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 14:08:00 -
[279] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote: /fend/ verb Definition to take care of and provide for yourself without depending on anyone else
thanks but i deduced this word from context.
Moneta Curran wrote:anyone or anything in this context, be it CONCORD or your own personal guard of faction police as that guy was proposing.. yes i see. however Eve Online is MMO and you can't do well here if only fend for yourself. The most successful entities in the game are alliances and corporations. The game is designed around player groups.
So you would better say: depending on NPC (which is game mechanics). Then i agree.
Note: - gate camps - totally organized around game mechanics - station games - totally organized around game mechanics - many other pvp strategies organized around game mechanics too |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2623
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 14:43:00 -
[280] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Still, since it's not in the paradigm of total ship raep masquerading as PVP, nobody would support such an idea. So this intervention force would swoop down to save you upon any act of aggression? .. and you want this pet NPC patrol to become stronger the more dedicated a carebear you have been in past ages? I am sure newbies everywhere will applaud the idea of having even less of a fighting chance. TBH the whole idea sucks, you are basically advocating bringing CONCORD to low sec. I suppose the concept of having to fend for yourself is just too alien to consider...
Case in point.
And in the usual fashion, you didn't read the whole thing. Chances are you also do this to RL news and have aided tyranny when you vote too. We talk about you "only partially paying attention" masses and the damage you do, you know that?
But thanks for highlighting and proving my final point.
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Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 15:03:00 -
[281] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Case in point.
And in the usual fashion, you didn't read the whole thing. Chances are you also do this to RL news and have aided tyranny when you vote too. We talk about you "only partially paying attention" masses and the damage you do, you know that?
But thanks for highlighting and proving my final point.
What do you presume to know about my reading habits? I did read the whole thing and I reached the conclusion you quote. Nice how you're almost pulling a Godwin there.
The original idea you elaborated upon was garbage and you actually managed to make it worse. |
sci0gon
Tech X Blue Print Creations Superior Eve Engineering
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 15:52:00 -
[282] - Quote
mechtech wrote:I'll refine the suggestion. (because frankly, that will never happen)
Increase the income spread between high sec and low sec agents, so that high sec provides considerably less income and low-sec slightly more than now. That way, Massive amounts of content won't be stripped from high sec, while the high-sec/low-sec income spread is increased to where many people feel it should be.
(sarcasm)
how about dropping the npc's bounties again? that way it affects everyone even the ratters in 0.0 and forcing a set price on moon minerals so the market wont go over that, i'd say -30% of current jita market pricing. also only a 5% profit margin on PI stuff.
(/sarcasm)
im sure a lot of you wouldn't be happy with this propose sarcastic change either since it would cut into your wallets as well. |
DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:34:00 -
[283] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.
People that want to find you and kill you always have the initial advantage over someone just trying to get things done, regardless if it's running missions, or just flying from A to B. The only way to counter that is to always travel in fleets, be on voice comms, have PvP capable ships, scout ahead, run missions and mine with friends etc etc, and this is basically what EVE Uni has as it's WSOP, and it's how things should be.
This is all good and fine in principle, as EVE is for group oriented PvP.
In practice though, if you turn the act of going to the shops to buy milk into a logistic operation that needs 4 people EVERY SINGLE TIME, you turn EVE into a second job rather then a game for a large section of people.
Is EVE meant to be like that? Maybe it is, maybe the carebears should go play Hello Kitty Online. EVE is harsh, and should punish you every time you blink for too long, but by the gods, you have to draw a line somewhere.
Right now I just roam Hisec and see what CCP has done with the universe, but for all I care CCP can just punch a hole in space where Hisec is and force everyone to pick sides and live in null sec somewhere. I'm sure I'd adapt, and if that failed, I'd just Plex ships and just go on random roams in cheap stuff to get exploded when I'm online, but the fact still remain that if you keep taking away content to force players to move, rather then create more interesting content elsewhere that attracts them there, you basically ... well, peeve them off for no good reason.
The whole problem with missions now is how static they are. You can look up triggers, spawns, distances, etc, and the word "farming" enters the equation, and I think the "farming" part is what you're really complaining about, so I'd rather have missions turn into a group activity instead, and missions scripts made way less predictable, personally. I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
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