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The Reaper J
Dynatron Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
New Idea.
Make any and all LOGI ship assistance that is outside a specific corp a concordable offence. No one cares about flags. |
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
169
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Please biomass ... |
The Reaper J
Dynatron Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
All logistics ships must be concorded if they are not in the attacking or attacked corp. If they are outside the corp, they must be concorded upon the repairing of any ship outside their corp or alliance.
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TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
169
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Still choose not to supply any reasoning...
Perhaps you could detail reasons why this should happen? currently it makes no sense other than you just lost a ship to someone with a ooc logi and rushed to the forums mashing the post button. ... |
The Reaper J
Dynatron Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
TheSkeptic wrote:Still choose not to supply any reasoning... Perhaps you could detail reasons why this should happen? currently it makes no sense other than you just lost a ship to someone with a ooc logi and rushed to the forums mashing the post button.
Any logi ships not in the same corp or alliance, supporting any ship in logostics should be concorded instead of getting a flag. Flaggable offences mean nothing. CONCORD the logistics ships for interference and support when not in the same corp or alliance. |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1358
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Reaper J wrote: Any logi ships not in the same corp or alliance, supporting any ship in logostics should be concorded instead of getting a flag. Flaggable offences mean nothing. CONCORD the logistics ships for interference and support when not in the same corp or alliance.
1. repeating the same three sentences doesn't offer much in the way of "a good argument for why this should happen".
2. suspect flag means "new target". Just because you choose to ignore it, doesn't mean others do
3. Some things to consider:
- They generally stay "far" from a fight to stay safe. - They have between 17 (minmatar) and 22 (caldari) sensor strength, about 480mm scan res. - They have 4-6 high slots, generally with 4 large reps (though could be 3 with a med on some fits) and cap xfers. - They have ~40k EHP, and 70m sig radius.
Your homework is to figure out how to handle the above. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
The Reaper J
Dynatron Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 10:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:The Reaper J wrote: Any logi ships not in the same corp or alliance, supporting any ship in logostics should be concorded instead of getting a flag. Flaggable offences mean nothing. CONCORD the logistics ships for interference and support when not in the same corp or alliance.
1. repeating the same three sentences doesn't offer much in the way of "a good argument for why this should happen". 2. suspect flag means "new target". Just because you choose to ignore it, doesn't mean others do 3. Some things to consider: - They generally stay "far" from a fight to stay safe. - They have between 17 (minmatar) and 22 (caldari) sensor strength, about 480mm scan res. - They have 4-6 high slots, generally with 4 large reps (though could be 3 with a med on some fits) and cap xfers. - They have ~40k EHP, and 70m sig radius. Your homework is to figure out how to handle the above.
Try 4 logistics ship repairing one ship so he can win like a yellow belly sissy. All logistics ships were in NPC's or outside his current corp. Meaning, they don't care about flags. Logitics ship getting involved in fights not theirs should be concorded. If they are not in the corp or alliance that is at war or stealing and ganking, then that logistics ships are supposed to be concorded. They never got concorded. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 11:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
The whole logistics flagging system makes no sense to me when you are in low sec: why should logi become suspect when you help fleet mate (assuming fleet mate has SS> -5 and not suspect himself)? the ideal solution should be to copy all limited engagement flags from pilot you're helping to logi. In highsec suspect flag is ok.
As it is now it cripples logi ships in anti-pirate roams... |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1358
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 11:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Reaper J wrote: Try 4 logistics ship repairing one ship so he can win like a yellow belly sissy. All logistics ships were in NPC's or outside his current corp. Meaning, they don't care about flags. Logitics ship getting involved in fights not theirs should be concorded. If they are not in the corp or alliance that is at war or stealing and ganking, then that logistics ships are supposed to be concorded. They never got concorded.
so, they get flagged to you (assuming you're at war with the first guy).
SHOOT THE ******* LOGI. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
StrongSmartSexy
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2013.04.12 12:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
There is one scenario that needs to be looked at. Corp infiltrators who decide to blast everything that moves in their corp can use out-of-corp Logi/RR without consequence as they will not become suspect flagged since that requires the assisted/repped target to have an LE flag (which cannot be acquired from in-corp combat/aggression).
Just remember that part of the goal of introducing Crimewatch was to eliminate or significantly hinder risk-free neutral RR, but this is one situation that remains unaffected post-change. |
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DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall Mors ex Elementis
22
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Posted - 2013.04.12 12:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
And this change would break Incursions entirely, way to think it out fail. |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
116
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 12:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Try killing the logi first, otherwise stop falling for bait duels. |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1358
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 12:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
StrongSmartSexy wrote:There is one scenario that needs to be looked at. Corp infiltrators who decide to blast everything that moves in their corp can use out-of-corp Logi/RR without consequence as they will not become suspect flagged since that requires the assisted/repped target to have an LE flag (which cannot be acquired from in-corp combat/aggression).
Just remember that part of the goal of introducing Crimewatch was to eliminate or significantly hinder risk-free neutral RR, but this is one situation that remains unaffected post-change.
this is true ... but getting awox'd doesn't seriously happen as often as the forums would make one believe (or does it?) One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
StrongSmartSexy
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 13:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:StrongSmartSexy wrote:There is one scenario that needs to be looked at. Corp infiltrators who decide to blast everything that moves in their corp can use out-of-corp Logi/RR without consequence as they will not become suspect flagged since that requires the assisted/repped target to have an LE flag (which cannot be acquired from in-corp combat/aggression).
Just remember that part of the goal of introducing Crimewatch was to eliminate or significantly hinder risk-free neutral RR, but this is one situation that remains unaffected post-change. this is true ... but getting awox'd doesn't seriously happen as often as the forums would make one believe (or does it?) It probably does not happen very regularly but the people who are aware of and use this loophole do it often. Not exactly a top priority issue for CCP to amend but an issue nonetheless.
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Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1359
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 13:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
StrongSmartSexy wrote: It probably does not happen very regularly but the people who are aware of and use this loophole do it often. Not exactly a top priority issue for CCP to amend but an issue nonetheless.
Fair enough then. Was just questioning it because from the forums, one doesn't necessarily get a full view of what actually happens.
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
The Reaper J
Dynatron Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 19:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Clearly this exploit and loop hole is not worried about by CCP, they support it. They support criminal activity. Otherwise they would have stopped it. Simple as hell.
1. Logi in corp, assists corp members = no problem. 2. Corp member in logi in alliance, helping alliance or corp member = no problem.
Logi ships OUTSIDE a corp or alliance assisting anyone that is not in their alliance or corp, should be CONCORDED. Otherwise CCP should allow combat ships outside a corp or alliance to assist without being Concorded which is not allowed.
Therefore allowing one and not the other, looks a lot like CCP is in full support of criminals and not all the players in eve. Most of you seem to forget, that the odd few new real players, not alts that join as learning how to play, but hey, who cares about flags. NO ONE. So Typical of CCP. |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
116
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 19:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Repping can't kill anyone therefore CONCORD doesn't care, however shooting is a completely different story. Besides when CCP wants something it's usually here to stay. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1083
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 19:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
The Reaper J wrote:Clearly this exploit and loop hole is not worried about by CCP, they support it. They support criminal activity. Otherwise they would have stopped it. Simple as hell.
1. Logi in corp, assists corp members = no problem. 2. Corp member in logi in alliance, helping alliance or corp member = no problem.
Logi ships OUTSIDE a corp or alliance assisting anyone that is not in their alliance or corp, should be CONCORDED. Otherwise CCP should allow combat ships outside a corp or alliance to assist without being Concorded which is not allowed.
Therefore allowing one and not the other, looks a lot like CCP is in full support of criminals and not all the players in eve. Most of you seem to forget, that the odd few new real players, not alts that join as learning how to play, but hey, who cares about flags. NO ONE. So Typical of CCP.
Why do you hate group content? |
Z GTC
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2013.04.12 20:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
I do not think Concord should get involved unless the Logi attempted to repair someone carrying out a criminal act. In which case Concord would already be arriving . "what if it was on accident?" People have those RED, YELLOW, and GREEN safety settings for a reason, use them.
Logistics are there to be the "Healer" role in EVE.
In a Duel a logistic should not be able to even lock onto the involved parties, or at the very least not initiate their reps. If this is able to be done it should be regarded as a bug and be fixed. A Duel is a specialized combat between two parties. Not two parties and whoever else feels like it.
In Open combat that is designated as "Suspect", Repairing a Suspect target should flag the one doing the repairs as suspect and free to kill as well.
Why should a Logistic Ship be killed by concord if the target they are repairing is not seen as Criminal? |
The Reaper J
Dynatron Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Z GTC wrote:I do not think Concord should get involved unless the Logi attempted to repair someone carrying out a criminal act. In which case Concord would already be arriving . "what if it was on accident?" People have those RED, YELLOW, and GREEN safety settings for a reason, use them.
Logistics are there to be the "Healer" role in EVE.
In a Duel a logistic should not be able to even lock onto the involved parties, or at the very least not initiate their reps. If this is able to be done it should be regarded as a bug and be fixed. A Duel is a specialized combat between two parties. Not two parties and whoever else feels like it.
In Open combat that is designated as "Suspect", Repairing a Suspect target should flag the one doing the repairs as suspect and free to kill as well.
Why should a Logistic Ship be killed by concord if the target they are repairing is not seen as Criminal?
Logistics ships are to be killed by concord for repping ships not in their corp or alliance. That's what i said. That should be regarded as a concordable offence. If those logi are in their corp or alliance, then there is no problem. When you got logi outside your corp then they should be shot if they rep anyone in any way that is NOT in their corp or if they are NOT in the same corp or alliance of the one they are repping. VERY SIMPLE. |
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Schmata Bastanold
Silver Octopus Infernal Octopus
697
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
C'mon, show us that killmail I'm sure it is as awesome as this one I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Z GTC
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
I understand what you want but I don't understand why you want it. If Concord did not attack your enemy nor attack the logistics healing your enemy it sounds like there was no criminal activity going on, at the most it was just suspect activity.
If they are not committing a crime then they should not be shot.
If they are committing a suspect act then other players can kill them at will. But Concord should not get involved.
It sounds like you got ganged up on, sorry but it happens.
Just so you know there are these things called Fleets. You can start one up and invite other players to join you and you can go around and play together even if you are not in the same corporation or alliance. Making Logistics get Concorded for wanting to help their fleet members would be a very stupid idea. But even if they are not in the same fleet see the above comments.
If Concord did not step in then they were obviously not committing a crime. |
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
The Reaper J wrote:Z GTC wrote:I do not think Concord should get involved unless the Logi attempted to repair someone carrying out a criminal act. In which case Concord would already be arriving . "what if it was on accident?" People have those RED, YELLOW, and GREEN safety settings for a reason, use them.
Logistics are there to be the "Healer" role in EVE.
In a Duel a logistic should not be able to even lock onto the involved parties, or at the very least not initiate their reps. If this is able to be done it should be regarded as a bug and be fixed. A Duel is a specialized combat between two parties. Not two parties and whoever else feels like it.
In Open combat that is designated as "Suspect", Repairing a Suspect target should flag the one doing the repairs as suspect and free to kill as well.
Why should a Logistic Ship be killed by concord if the target they are repairing is not seen as Criminal? Logistics ships are to be killed by concord for repping ships not in their corp or alliance. That's what i said. That should be regarded as a concordable offence. If those logi are in their corp or alliance, then there is no problem. When you got logi outside your corp then they should be shot if they rep anyone in any way that is NOT in their corp or if they are NOT in the same corp or alliance of the one they are repping. VERY SIMPLE.
You missed their point. Logi's would only be flagged/killed for repping those who are in the process of performing a criminal act. If the individual getting repped is about to be concorded, so would the logi. If they were about to get a criminal flag (i.e baiting), so would the logi.
Make it transferable the other way, too. If they are about to get a sec status gain for attacking a pirate, rat, or other content ... give the logi the same.
Make all flags and standings changes carry over between pilots. Don't just look for a solution to one problem, look for a way to improve gameplay all around. Gives healers an extra benifit from gameplay all around. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 23:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
The Reaper J wrote: Logistics ships are to be killed by concord for repping ships not in their corp or alliance. That's what i said. That should be regarded as a concordable offence. If those logi are in their corp or alliance, then there is no problem. When you got logi outside your corp then they should be shot if they rep anyone in any way that is NOT in their corp or if they are NOT in the same corp or alliance of the one they are repping. VERY SIMPLE.
By repeating same over and over again you dont add anything to discussion. Also you're missing the fact that fleets can(and often do) contain pilots from different corps/alliances. |
Petrified
At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
5
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Posted - 2013.04.13 00:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
TheSkeptic wrote:Please biomass
Still the most accurate. Since the logi ship that is repping is flagged, anyone can legally engage it, including you. Issue does not appear to be you against a target being remote repped by you against more than one vessel - remote repping or firing on you, one way or another you are engaged with multiple ships. Concord does not need to be involved since the flagged logi can now be blown up without penalty by anyone.
If you were isolated, say at a POCO or acceleration gate, that is was your choice. In High Sec wars, you check local before undocking. Now that you know the guy uses neutral reps, you mark them with negative standings so next time you can see if he brought friends to the system. Play smart.
The suspect flagging of neutral reppers does more than enough to compensate for their remote repping. Just be glad they can't legally fire on you first. |
Petrified
At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
5
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Posted - 2013.04.13 00:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
StrongSmartSexy wrote:There is one scenario that needs to be looked at. Corp infiltrators who decide to blast everything that moves in their corp can use out-of-corp Logi/RR without consequence as they will not become suspect flagged since that requires the assisted/repped target to have an LE flag (which cannot be acquired from in-corp combat/aggression).
Just remember that part of the goal of introducing Crimewatch was to eliminate or significantly hinder risk-free neutral RR, but this is one situation that remains unaffected post-change.
This is actually addressed by removal of the person from corp. Hopefully the corp members had the presence of mind to kill the corp mate before ejecting him.
The problem with suspect flagging in this case is that it breaks legit uses such as pick up fleets running missions.
In either case, remote repping is far from being broken but addressed in all cases.
AWOXers suck... but they legitimately happen when poor choices are made in corporate membership. |
Arronicus
Shadows of Vorlon The Marmite Collective
517
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Posted - 2013.04.13 00:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
The Reaper J please biomass your character. |
Tsobai Hashimoto
Hard Knocks Inc.
125
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 01:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
The Reaper J wrote:Clearly this exploit and loop hole is not worried about by CCP, they support it. They support criminal activity. Otherwise they would have stopped it. Simple as hell.
1. Logi in corp, assists corp members = no problem. 2. Corp member in logi in alliance, helping alliance or corp member = no problem.
Logi ships OUTSIDE a corp or alliance assisting anyone that is not in their alliance or corp, should be CONCORDED. Otherwise CCP should allow combat ships outside a corp or alliance to assist without being Concorded which is not allowed.
Therefore allowing one and not the other, looks a lot like CCP is in full support of criminals and not all the players in eve. Most of you seem to forget, that the odd few new real players, not alts that join as learning how to play, but hey, who cares about flags. NO ONE. So Typical of CCP.
ok drama queen lets go over this. when the logi give reps. shoot him along with your 5 friends....issue solved
dont have 5 friends? get a better corp or recruit pilots that need a better corp
sloved. next?
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Hideyoshi Kinoshita
Celestial.Beings. United Coalition of New Eden
4
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Posted - 2013.04.13 02:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
i know what your intention is. But your suggestion is just broken and ego-centric |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
71
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 03:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
I guess you didnt think about how this mechanic would devastate incursion fleets then eh? Hard to run sites if your logi pilot saving your ass from the sansha rats is getting concorded >.>
Next time, think through how this affects everyone and not just you. |
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