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TheGunslinger42
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Posted - 2013.04.14 11:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Instead of picking on people in highsec who can't fight back and don't want to PVP?
I mean, the mining barges, PVE fit ships, etc that get blown up in low/null/wh space aren't anywhere as near as weak and defenseless as the mining barges and PVE ships in highsec, and they totally wanted me to drop a sb gang on them and kill their ship and pod, so it's ok if I gank them in low/null/wh space, but in highsec? Wow thats just griefing basically!
In case you didn't get it, sarcasm. I'm saying this "go to low/null/wh to pvp" line is stupid. |
TheGunslinger42
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Posted - 2013.04.14 11:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:When the targets who have far too much isk on their ships and no tank fitted go into low sec we will follow.
Unfortunately the worst of the bears will complain about this attitude, without realising that it is the EXACT same attitude they have themselves: Maximising what you get out of your preferred playstyle. For them and their low-risk playstyle, they achieve it by mining in highsec with blinged out ships, for you and the "explode expensive ships" playstyle, targeting them is a way to achieve that |
TheGunslinger42
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Posted - 2013.04.14 12:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Noddy Comet wrote:Why would they go down to the roughest corner in town and pick on the tough guys in leather jackets that may have knives and fight back when they can go-round behind the elementary school and kick sand in kids faces and take their lunch money just to laugh at them while they cry?
I like the part where you just repeat the exact fallacy my post was mocking.
My point, my dear sweet bear, is that a lot of people who get blown up in low, null and wh space aren't "tough guys in leather jackets that may have knives and fight back". A lot of the people who die in low, null and wh space are EXACTLY as weak and helpless as your sorry little highsec bear ass. Except you don't have a problem with them being on the side of "unfair" and unwanted PVP.
Silly bear. |
TheGunslinger42
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Posted - 2013.04.14 16:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
To all the people discussing the risk (or what you feel is the lack thereof) for gankers/war deccers in highsec, the point I was trying to make in the first part is that in a lot of cases the risk the aggressor faces in low and null is pretty much the same. If a couple of people in stealth bombers go after a ratting bs or a mining barge in low/null the risk the ratter/miner poses to them isn't any greater than a ratter/miner in highsec
Which, to me, makes the "go to low/null" argument feel pretty silly, because being in low/null doesn't inherently make fights any fairer, anymore invited, or anything else.
More than a few highseccers seem to think that everyone in low/null are l33t pvpers who are itching for a fight 23.5/7 - that's not true, there are plenty of carebears there too (search "AFK Cloak" and you'll see just how many...), so to me all areas of space seem pretty much the same: There are soft targets everywhere, people who don't want me to kill them everywhere, people who surprise you and put up a good fight and even win sometimes everywhere, etc
The idea that one part of space is for pvp and another is for pve is wrong. That's not how the mechanics work, it never has been, it never SHOULD be. It's a massive, horrible misunderstanding that some players have. |
TheGunslinger42
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Posted - 2013.04.14 18:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:The thing is that, it all boils down to two simple questions:
1- Why do you play Eve? and
2- What is your personnel code of ethics, when playing in an MMO?
Trying to debate on who is right and who is wrong is totally pointless.
I think there is a right and a wrong.
Right: EVE is a sandbox, and why I play and what my code of ethics in game are can be applied anywhere, any time. That's what EVE is.
Wrong: EVE has PVP zones and PVE zones, and you're a bad wrong nastyman if you try to do the PVP in the PVE zone and should go to the PVP zone because people in the PVE zone don't want their things blown up, stolen, etc |
TheGunslinger42
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1219
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Posted - 2013.04.14 19:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Augustine Artrald wrote:I have been playing EVE for a little over a week now, and I am a trifle confused by the hostility directed toward players who prefer or only care about PVE. Whenever someone suggests that EVE is boring and merely a spreadsheet simulator, plenty of EVE fans rally in defense of the game and argue that EVE is a sandbox--whatever the player wants it to be. Yet some players, several of whom have posted in this thread, seem focused on the idea that EVE must only be centered on PVP. Is it so hard for those players to accept that others might not actually enjoy PVP, might actually find it boring, and, yes, might actually prefer PVE?
I personally have no interest in the PVP aspect of EVE. Does that mean I should quit the game?
I am not suggesting that those who enjoy PVP should restrict themselves only to mutual PVP. But when players ardently seek to ruin the fun of those who focus on PVE so as to drive them away from the game, a problem exists. Such behavior seems, at least to me, detrimental to the spirit of EVE.
It's fine if you're not interested in PVP and prefer to focus on other things, so long as you accept that no matter what you do or where you are you're playing a PVP game and ending up in a PVP situation is a possible outcome. The people who can't accept or handle that probably should quit - and this isn't said out of anger or hostility, it's just the fact that it really, really isn't their kind of game and there's not much chance they'll find what they're looking for. Or they will, but someone will warp in and take it off them at gunpoint, and then they'll ragequit anyway |
TheGunslinger42
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1219
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Posted - 2013.04.15 06:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:baltec1 wrote:So we call it punishment and risk given that we stay -10 while ganking. What risk is there, since you have already mitigated all the dangers? What punishment is there, since you view -10 flashy red as a status badge? None of the game mechanics actually work as punishment or disincentive to gank, which is obvious since your corporation's purpose for existence is to suicide gank. You've got fittings and procedures to follow for optimum gankage, including profit/loss analysis and forums full of pubbie tears copypasta. The only reason there is any risk is because you set out to run suicide gank fleets as an income stream or to support your existing income stream. If you weren't so focussed on profits, you'd be happily suicide ganking without any concern about what loot dropped.
Why should there be a punishment or disincentive to gank? The mechanics mentioned are tradeoffs you have to deal with when doing it, but I don't see why there HAS to be punishment for it.
It's a game about blowing up spaceships, why punish people for blowing up spaceships |
TheGunslinger42
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Posted - 2013.04.15 07:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
So to summarise, reasons to PVP (ganks, wardecs, whatever) in highsec: There is not a single reason not to (highsec is and always has been a PVP area. All areas of EVE are PVP areas) Abundance of targets No capital warfare Less blobby Targets are more likely to be packed with bling The tears are twice as delicious
Reasons why carebears think everyone who wants to PVP should go to low/null/wh space: They feel that they shouldn't have to PVP if they don't want to The feel that highsec is supposed to be a PVP free zone They do not understand the nature or mechanics of the game
Simple :) |
TheGunslinger42
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Posted - 2013.04.15 08:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:The honest answer is that it's because they are cowards. They'd get their arses handed to them in Low/Null, so they stay in High where they can have easy victories and feel like men. They will dress it up any number of ways, but that's the reality.
Sigh. You're kind of missing the point. I'm saying that plenty of the "fights" in low/null are basically just one sided, low-risk ganks the same as what happens in highsec, yet when it's done in low/null you accept it, but when it's done in high you start ranting about them being "cowards" or whatever other crap to make yourself feel superior.
Why do so many people think it is fine to gank fairly weak and helpless miners or ratters in low/null, but not in highsec?
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TheGunslinger42
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1220
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Posted - 2013.04.15 08:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Sigh. You're kind of missing the point. I'm saying that plenty of the "fights" in low/null are basically just one sided, low-risk ganks the same as what happens in highsec, yet when it's done in low/null you accept it, but when it's done in high you start ranting about them being "cowards" or whatever other crap to make yourself feel superior.
Why do so many people think it is fine to gank fairly weak and helpless miners or ratters in low/null, but not in highsec?
Stop trying to justify yourself. You're lily-livered, we get it. And I expect most people don't think it's fine to gank weak and helpless miners. It's just griefing. Most people would agree consensual PVP in Low/Null is fine, but that's not the same thing is it?
So you think non-consensual PVP in low/null is griefing too?
Oh my, lmao |
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TheGunslinger42
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Posted - 2013.04.15 09:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Newbies don't fly around in pimped out 3 billion isk mission running ships.
Baddies do that. |
TheGunslinger42
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1220
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Posted - 2013.04.15 09:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Newbies don't fly around in pimped out 3 billion isk mission running ships.
Of course they do. Well, IRL financially comfortable n00bs do.
No, baddies who think this game is pay-to-win do.
I'm glad better players separated you not only with your isk but with real life money. |
TheGunslinger42
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1220
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Posted - 2013.04.15 09:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
culo duro wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Newbies don't fly around in pimped out 3 billion isk mission running ships.
Of course they do. Well, IRL financially comfortable n00bs do. So you bought that amount of plex to bling out your mission boat, and ignore the pop up box about going into low sec?
Pff who needs to actually learn how to play a game when you can just throw money at it and expect to win? |
TheGunslinger42
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1221
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Posted - 2013.04.15 09:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Well, they were better because they didn't fly a 3bn isk mission ship into lowsec
Anyway, back on topic, doesn't the fact that you lost that in lowsec prove exactly what I'm saying: That people in low (like you were when you were in that 3bn isk ship) can be just as weak and helpless in face of gankers as people in high, and therefore saying it's unfair to gank in high and people should instead go to low/null is a silly idea, since there's no difference to the fairness or ability of other players? The only thing that changes is how MANY targets there are |
TheGunslinger42
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1221
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Posted - 2013.04.15 09:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Oh, and FYI, I don't think this game is 'Pay to Win', but if I can do anything to make my Care Bear or PVP life more comfortable then I'll do it. Don't be mad because you're poor, it's very distasteful
lmao, I love this guy. Boasting about how much money he has in real life (and throwing more insults my way, as if he knows how wealthy I am) and topping it off with calling me distasteful. If anything's distasteful mate it's waving around your disposable income as if it makes you superior.
PS: How much money you have doesn't somehow make stupid actions less stupid. |
TheGunslinger42
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1221
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Posted - 2013.04.15 10:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wodensun wrote:Like wolves we hunt there where our prey goes...
Wolves are griefers and should only eat prey that agrees to be eaten though please God/Science rebalance wolves |
TheGunslinger42
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1221
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Posted - 2013.04.15 11:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
LittleTerror wrote:In some way I actually agree with the OP but only the part were it is too easy for people to suicide gank using small fast ships when they are already -10 sec status and they can do this without any sort of repercussions. There are people who's whole game play consists of boarding a new destroyer, and then flying to a gate and randomly ganking people in shuttles or other soft targets, or flying to a belt and ganking mining ships.
I think that is unbalanced, unfair and very lame, there should be a limit to how much you can get away with within a set amount of time because in reality no law abiding NPC corp is going to let a known terrorist repeatedly use its stations as a base for their activities.
TL;DR
Commit acts of terrorism in highsec, then the criminal flag should also prevent these people from redocking, obviously only temporarily but long enough that it creates a logistics problem for the gankers.
I didn't say any of those things lol. I don't have a problem with any of the things you said. |
TheGunslinger42
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Posted - 2013.04.15 13:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
LittleTerror wrote:I'm perfectly capable of avoiding ganks, however if I was a noob in my first mining ship, and barely able to fit a tank and someone came along and destroyed my ship in a highsec system for no gain other than to **** me off, i'd feel it was a bit unfair. Particularly if that ganker is virtually immune using their low skill point alt over and over and over again, so all i'm suggesting is a more balanced set of game mechanics because if these gankers are so ******* hardcore, then they won't mind having to fly their gank ships in from a lowsec system right?
All of EVE is PVP. Newbies need to learn this, lest they get the idea highsec is a safe themepark. |
TheGunslinger42
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Posted - 2013.04.15 14:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
ISK sent awaiting approval.
lolol |
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