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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Grashopper
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:23:00 -
[1]
Noted at http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/eula.asp under 7. CONDUCT
A. Specifically Restricted Conduct
2) You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.
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So does this mean using Teamspeak or Ventrilo or whatever other speech software is out there changes how the game is played ?
After all some of us who can use it are more efficient in battles as voice is faster than typing and perhaps gaining an unfair advantage over those who cant use it.
Will there ever be an "in-game" e.g. Voice over IP application provided by CCP that can resolve this issue or are people using those tools (teamspeak, ventrilo) absolutely legit to do so ?
Discuss away.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:25:00 -
[2]
Welcome to the anal-rententive zone. Enjoy your stay. -- Proud member of the [23].
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Grashopper
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:27:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Welcome to the anal-rententive zone. Enjoy your stay.
Well - I d like to clear this up once and for all instead of having a potential ban hanging over me cause I use third party software to play the game more efficient mmmmkay ?
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:28:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Grashopper
Originally by: Dark Shikari Welcome to the anal-rententive zone. Enjoy your stay.
Well - I d like to clear this up once and for all instead of having a potential ban hanging over me cause I use third party software to play the game more efficient mmmmkay ?
Considering that 2/3 of EVE players probably use teamspeak, and the devs have even endorsed renting out teamspeak servers for in-game ISK, I highly doubt that it is against the rules -- Proud member of the [23].
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Benilopax
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:38:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Benilopax on 19/09/2005 12:39:11 I belive it does not effect game play like a macro typing warp is the same as saying it. Plus its hard to catch!
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Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Grashopper third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.
...key word being "modify".
If you use a "macro", your are affecting your interface with the game.
If you are playing in the same room with your friends and yell "X is main target, Y is secondary", you are not affecting the game interfase in any way.
If your friends are in another room / city / country / continent and you use Ventrilo, you are still not affecting the game interface. Breathe in, breathe out, realax.
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The lines and the scar |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Herko Kerghans
Originally by: Grashopper third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.
...key word being "modify".
Actually, the "modify" bit is irrelevant. It's changing how the game is played, because it's giving you an advantage over players who don't have it, and/or can't use it.
That said, CCP have made it about as clear as they possibly can that using a Teamspeak-style program is not going to get you hit by the ban stick. For one thing, as said above, it's all but impossible to catch. I know one online game where you can be punished for communicating out of game (by phone, talking in person, TS, or whatever) .. but it's a small game and free to play. I can't imagine any pay game ever even trying to impose that rule; it'd be unworkable, whether desirable or not.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Rufus Roughneck
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:49:00 -
[8]
`Would be fun, let's start persecuting guys that play eve while in the same room !!!!
They get tot alk to eachotehr without typing, ohnoes.
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:59:00 -
[9]
think this is interesting... and stop flaming him ffs...
its a legitimate question and maybe one that the devs havnt even thougth about...
maybe they should adjust the EULA for this...
/Sent |
Lardarz B'stard
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:05:00 -
[10]
I have been know to mine with one of my characters. I taught my dog to watch the screen and bark when NPCs turned up.
Is this against the EULA?
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard I have been know to mine with one of my characters. I taught my dog to watch the screen and bark when NPCs turned up.
Is this against the EULA?
I'd be more worried about the cruelty to animals laws if I were you
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
StarWolfer
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard I have been know to mine with one of my characters. I taught my dog to watch the screen and bark when NPCs turned up.
Is this against the EULA?
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:08:00 -
[13]
What's being modified here? All it's doing is increasing your ability to communicate with your teammates. If that's considered modifying gameplay in some manner, say to gain an unfair advantage over someone else, then I shudder at the thought that one day someone will complain that certain people can type faster in chat than others.
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Lardarz B'stard
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard I have been know to mine with one of my characters. I taught my dog to watch the screen and bark when NPCs turned up.
Is this against the EULA?
I'd be more worried about the cruelty to animals laws if I were you
He likes it as long as he gets a bonio per hour.
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Winterblink What's being modified here? All it's doing is increasing your ability to communicate with your teammates. If that's considered modifying gameplay in some manner, say to gain an unfair advantage over someone else, then I shudder at the thought that one day someone will complain that certain people can type faster in chat than others.
Blinky, I think that there is a real point here. I mean, we are modding game play quite a extensively. There is an entire area of the game thatą
Oką I tried, but I canĘt type any more with a straight face.
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We're outnumbered! That simplifies the problem! |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:33:00 -
[16]
I seem to remember this being asked a while ago, the devs having a chat about it and deciding that while it might be considered against the letter of the law from the EULA, it was not against the spirit of it. Basically that common sense should prevail, and that the use of Teamspeak was not something that EULA clause was intended to prevent.
You can do anything. But you can't do everything. |
Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 19/09/2005 13:40:41 Lol, this is not the first time I hear something like this. This argument came up in different pvp-oriented mmogs I played. I think that no mmog publisher will ever forbid the use of voice com. It's standard in pvp oriented games. Even if role players often don't like it. The wish of the pro or semi-pro ;) gamers with voicecom, multi-accounts etc. will most likely be accepted. Multiple accounts are another topic like that. People who leave a game because the use of teamspeak are just a tiny minority. But voice com is a fun factor and keeps a lot people playing with their mates and there is no effective way to control it anyway. It rather happens, that they embed some voice com into the game than forbidding it.
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Grashopper
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:47:00 -
[18]
Sorry if I hit a spot there - its just that I think it would be nice to have an in-game way of using communication like e.g. BF2 Servers can provide by VOIP.
No hard feelings to you that feel I m trying to take away your fun using TS already.
I m not
However it'd be nice to have this clarified by an official say - and if only by Eris Discordia or another forum mod maybe.
..and - lots of funny answers there and some serious ones.
Thank you for the input so far
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Dahin
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:51:00 -
[19]
"ts/vent giving an advantange against non-users, therefore changing the gaming experience" argument is daft.
So, if I pick up the phone and start speaking with the gangmates, that's illegal too? I'm doing the same thing with vent. Brains give people advantage too... let out teh zombies!
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:51:00 -
[20]
Grasshopper: I'd say the EULA speaks for itself here, though. It's not modifying the game environment or changing the way the game is played in that communication to and from the server and at the client level is not affected.
Just my 0.02 isk.
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Grashopper
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Posted - 2005.09.19 16:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Winterblink Grasshopper: I'd say the EULA speaks for itself here, though. It's not modifying the game environment or changing the way the game is played in that communication to and from the server and at the client level is not affected.
Just my 0.02 isk.
Yeah well - Imho it IS changing the way the game is played, but those silly examples of dogs being trained or slightly less silly examples of using phone have their right.
Lets close this tread and say it would still be nice to have an official VOIP server, just its not going to happen :O)
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Sherkaner
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Posted - 2005.09.19 16:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Winterblink Grasshopper: I'd say the EULA speaks for itself here, though. It's not modifying the game environment or changing the way the game is played in that communication to and from the server and at the client level is not affected.
Just my 0.02 isk.
That's pretty much on the spot.
I'm not qualified to give an official answer (if you need a 100% definite answer, please ask the GMs), but basically, what the EULA prohibits, and what CCP mainly cares about is - modifying the client binaries, or extracting files from them - intercepting and/or modifying communication between client and server - automating the input to the client (macros)
Teamspeak is a completely separate software that in no way interferes with the client. You can't prohibit having 2 people in the same room on different computers, talking to each other either
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.19 16:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Grashopper Yeah well - Imho it IS changing the way the game is played
How?
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KIAPieman
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Posted - 2005.09.19 17:38:00 -
[24]
using teamspeak if anything ENHANCES eve. it gives a better feeling of friendship to the corp and help make the gaming experience much better imo. if it wasnt for teamspeak i would have probably stopped playing a long time ago.
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Atraxy
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Posted - 2005.09.20 11:52:00 -
[25]
true but not when ristin leaves it on when he falls asleep and its all we can hear all night in the house :P
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Erim Kaluk
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Posted - 2005.09.20 12:07:00 -
[26]
Totally agree with Pie on this, although it can't save people from their choice in corps :P
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.09.20 12:54:00 -
[27]
no its perfectly within the EULA i think because it doesnt modify or automate anything within the eve gameworld.
Because CCP doesnt provide Teamspeak within the game - its used outside the game by players.
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2005.09.21 03:28:00 -
[28]
Poeople saying it doesnt modify gameplay have often in this thread, within their very own posts, contradicted themsevles by describing HOW it modified gameplay. I find this humorous. Is not "improving" or "enhancing" or "making communications easier" modifying gameplay?
Paraphrase 'no it doesnt modify gameplay, it only modifies it so its not against the EULA'. This argument is daft, not those that rightly say it does modify gameplay, because it clearly does, or you wouldn't use it.
That said, I doubt it's against the intentions of CCP to disallow TS to be used, wether it violates the literal interpretation of the EULA or not.a
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Lazarus Tag'lim
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Posted - 2005.09.21 04:01:00 -
[29]
Ok... YES, it changes gameplay... but it does so no more than any group of players who have developed strong communication techniques in-game.
Of course... several other things effect game play in a similar manner. Eve Character Manager helps players more efficiently manage their training time (and it DOES communicate with the server... at least indirectly through the web server, and is defacto endorsed by CCP). Eve-I's and others' object browsers help players browse items more effectively than the market (and shows things you wouldn't be able to find on the market). Future Falcon's Ship Fit let's you "test" the fitting of different kits more efficiently than doing so in a station, and lets you test with items you have not yet acquired. The thing about these programs, along with Teamspeak, is that none effect your interaction with the environment through your ship and her actions... they all merely improve the flow and analysis of information for the players, so that the players can make better, more informed play decisions.
And... TS and their ilk are beneficial to CCP, and other MMO makers. Voice com draws people together far better than text (especially for you hunt-and-peck people). It makes group play more fun, for activities such as mining which can become boring and tedious... voice com breaks the boredom with lively conversation and perhaps some Karaoke. All of this increases enjoyment (and leads to longer subscriptions), and then even when the game becomes less than thrilling.. the friendships forged by stronger communication can hold people to the game far longer than they would have been otherwise. Lazarus Tag'lim CEO, GalacTECH Unlimited Resident Corporation of Southern Deklein |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.09.21 04:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kaell Meynn Poeople saying it doesnt modify gameplay have often in this thread, within their very own posts, contradicted themsevles by describing HOW it modified gameplay. I find this humorous. Is not "improving" or "enhancing" or "making communications easier" modifying gameplay?
They EULA specifically means modifiying the gameplay in the sense of the rules the client and server use. I can modify how I play the game by reading something on the forums (say how to fit a ship properly) in Firefox, that does not mean Firefox is altering the games rules.
And I bet the devs would put voice comm in EVE if they could afford the bandwidth costs.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
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