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Asmodai Xodai
Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 09:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
SYNOPSIS:
I have only been playing a couple of months. I have relatively low skills.
I have a need to rat Guristas.
PRIMARY GOAL:
To be able to kill any group of Gurista rats that could spawn in any belt.
ATTEMPTED SOLUTION:
Bought a drake and trained up a few skills (missle launcher, shield) - my rationale being that it was a tough battlecruiser (afaik), and that I could configure damage for kinetic. However, probably due to my current skill level, it has performed less than adequately. I can kill the lower level rats. But once I hit conquistadors (say, 3 in a belt along with a few support ships), I'm pretty much at my limit. I did manage to kill 1 conquistador in this situation, but it took many warp-outs to repair and reshield, and took at least an hour to pull off. This was using the arbalest heavy assault missle launcher, and faction navy ammo (normal ammo didn't cut it). Also things like shield extenders and rechargers, kinetic resists, etc.
FINAL SOLUTION:
I will now hear your suggestions. I can fly any battlecruiser, and am currently training large guns in case I need to fit them to either an attack battlecruiser, or a battleship. And remember, my skills aren't so good. In particular, my drone skills suck at this juncture (can only control 4 basic drones at this point), so gallente is probably out.
Ideally, my preference would be to kill things at long range with high dps (or perhaps alpha, if that would work). My thoughts were one of the 'sniper' battlecruisers, or some kind of battleship. But I'll listen to any suggestions you have.
Fire your best shot. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
780
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 10:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Guristas are weakest to Kinetic, and then Thermal.
This suggests either Hybrids, or missiles. Projectiles will do if you have absolutely nothing else, and avoid lasers.
Since you have already tried the Drake with Heavy Assault Missiles, basically as good as you're going to get in the battlecruiser class, I'm going to go ahead and say you need to train some more skills. Based on this:
Asmodai Xodai wrote:I have only been playing a couple of months. I have relatively low skills. ... my drone skills suck
You should train until you can use 5x Hobgoblin or Hornet IIs. Then pick a weapon system and train it to at least IV, preferably T2. make sure your support skills for that weapon are all at IV, and get a full T2 tank and IVs in fitting and capacitor skills.
EVE is all about skills. You don't have them. Get them.
|
legion
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 10:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Its not the ship its the lack of training pick a ship train for it. Check out your certifications under core certifications train em all. Under defense pick the ones appropriate for your ship. Once you can fit tech 2 defensive modules it'll get allot easier. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
137
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 11:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you're going to be using HAMs then you want to use the T2 Launchers and T2 ammo.
The Drake is a superb ship, but as others have alluded, you need good skills to get the most from it. Plus +ºa change, plus c'est la m+¬me chose |
Lord Lojak
The Black Hole Republic
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 11:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
my 2 cents?
nano bomber works wonders but its tricky to use.
but u were right to use a drake for a straightup face tank. for closer range and more DPS use HAMs instead of HML if it wasnt for the bullet nobody would fear the the gun |
Froggy Storm
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 11:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Belt rats can be killed very efficiently for modest ticks in a naga. I assume Talos as well but not sure.
For anoms you'll want something with a bigger tank (assuming F-hubs) so move up to tengu or rokh/mega. The ultimate for gurista red plus kills is arguably the vindi. With the bonused webs, ideal damage type, and sentrys it can push obscene ticks from anoms.
From direct experience a rokh+naga team can approach 40-60 m/hr in bounty. With loot and salv it is in the 100m/hr range but needs a dedicated salvager to keep up as sites are a 15 min clear. |
Kurfin
Viziam Amarr Empire
51
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 12:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
For now I'd stick with the drake, it's a solid ship, and just work on your skills. At your stage in the game you'll improve really fast. |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
685
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 13:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'd personally use a Caracal, but if you're struggling with a Drake, I guess that might not be a great idea. You should probably just put some more tank on your Drake. Post your current fit. Oh god. |
Asmodai Xodai
Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 18:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Not really the answers I wanted, as I'd prefer to simply hop into a ship that could do the job, even if my skills aren't ideal for it.
I guess it is what it is.
EDIT:
Quote:Are you talking about mission rats? No, I'm just talking rat groups that spawn in asteroid belts.
Quote:For now I'd stick with the drake, it's a solid ship, and just work on your skills. At your stage in the game you'll improve really fast.
I will of course defer to anything anyone says here. Having said that, it's hard for me to see this drake doing much more for me anytime soon. I've run some numbers, and 5% better missle here and 5% better shield or grid there isn't gonna do much against what I'm currently going against. I need a lot more dps. I thought that big battleship guns (either on a bs, or abc) would do the trick. But no one here recommended that. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8785
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 18:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Your drake should have 3 T2 ballistic control units and, ideally, 6 T2 launchers; Arbalests will do until you can use T2.
You should note that the drake gets +10% kinetic damage/level, so there's a fair difference between, say battlecruisers 2 and battlecruisers 4. Make sure your ship skill is at least 4
EDIT: The go to ratting fit should look ideally something like this
6x T2/Meta 4 launchers 10mn AB, 2x large shield extenders, T2 Kinetic hardener, T2 Invuln 3x T2 ballistic controls, T2/Meta 3/4 Damage control
5x Hobgoblin II Drones
3x Core Defence Field Extender Rigs
With all V skills that should put out easily enough DPS to swiftly slaughter any belt rat. All those "5%s" you disparage really add up. Please vote for me for CSM8-áhere
My recommended voting list |
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Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
686
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 18:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Well you haven't posted your fit so we can't see if you're doing something wrong there. I suspect it is your fit as a Drake should be able to tank 3 Battleships easily, especially Guristas. If you're having to warp out before you can kill even one BS, DPS is the least of your worries right now. Oh god. |
Asmodai Xodai
Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 23:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
EDIT: I have Battlecruiser V.
I'm pretty far away from any of these T2 modules like launchers and what not. My preference is not to waste too many skill points in launchers that I may not use much later as I'll probably be into guns (drake and missles was a side-shoot for me specifically for ratting). In truth, I was strictly Amarr and lasers before getting this Caldari ship. Having said that, I'll do what you guys recommend if possible.
I won't post the exact fit, but I'll give you the general gist of what I've been running.
HIGHS:
I have 2 sets of launchers I've used in the highs. Initially it was 6 heavy missle launchers. Later I switched to Arbalest heavy assault missle launchers.
Also, because I had trouble with rats repairing shields as I knocked them down, I have tried both a medium neut in the utility high, and a nosferatu unit. The one kill against a Conquistador I was able to achieve was with the neut.
MIDS:
Have tried various combos of shield extenders, and two types of resist units. One type gave across the board resists. Other type was kinetic resist at 50% or thereabouts. Also tried running a shield repair/restore unit, and a shield boost amplifier. Also, I use a mwd because the rats spawn very far away and I have to get to them quickly before they take down all of my shield.
LOWS:
Damage control I, Ballistic control II, plus 2 reactor control units.
RIGS:
Medium core defense field purger, Medium hydraulic bay thrusters I
I know I could just keep training for upgrades and launchers, but if 'big guns' will do the trick (and I plan to be in those anyway sooner or later) should I just try to jump into those?
EDIT:
I did try running 4 drones also, but they seemed to target and kill the drones quickly, so I stopped doing that. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
108
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 00:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
get your skills up. you might not like the answer but it is the right one.
EVE isnt about just grabbing a bigger stick and hitting the enemy with, you need the skills to use said stick or it will hit you in the head instead |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
84
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 01:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
If you have BC V I would suggest a talos. It will kill any group of belt rats very quickly. As you have discovered: drakes are a bit low on damage but they make up with their awesome tank.
However you need to train large hybrids for this to work.
Once you get tech 2 launchers and start using fury missiles drake might be worth looking at again. |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
100
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 01:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
if you plan to just do belting...
Cerberus would be fine. with its natural res to kin and therm you would be able to speed tank to maintain a formidable tank and run near dps
the below is off the top of my head.
[Cerberus, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field 10MN Afterburner II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile [empty high slot]
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Now giving away isk to likes on forums posts to random likers..* Masuka Taredi 100m isk* could this be you? |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
690
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 05:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
As far as I know, the rat BS have infinite cap, at least the ones where I am do so I'm not sure if neuts will help. Rats rep themselves based on chance... It's like a 10% chance to rep or something, I'm not exactly sure. Anyway, I'd lose the neut. If you're having trouble breaking their tank then you do have a serious DPS problem. Looking at what you posted, I'd say you need to make some sacrifices, specifically the MWD. Get rid of those Power Core things, they're useless.
Basically, you want as many BCUs in the lows as you can get, take an AB, Medium Shield Booster, Thermal Hardener and a Kinetic Hardener. Try and get as close to cap stable as you can. It will be slow and painful, especially with HAMs. That's why I couldn't stand my old Drake. It's just crap with low skills.
Have you tried ratting with other ships? You said you primarily trained into Amarr ships, so if your skills are decent, you might be better off using an Amarr ship or possibly cross training into Hybrids.
Here is a fit that should do reasonably well;
[Drake, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Medium Shield Booster II Thermic Dissipation Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II 10MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
This is a pretty low skilled fit and should manage belts comfortably. The nos is optional but will help with your cap seeing as you'll be in range to use it anyway, there's no reason not to. Use light drones to take care of Frigates and switch up to faction ammo if you still want more DPS on BSes. Oh god. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
387
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 06:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you are amarr specced then I would assume your turret skills are decent?
If so fit up a ferox with some medium rails in a similar fashion to the drake listed above. It will put out easily enough DPS to kill belt rats and tank them till hell freezes over. (ignore the flames about how **** medium rails are - I can fit a ferox to out dps a drake with medium rails easily)
The other thing is a lot of T2 amarr ships are missile based so training up the skills for the drake will sync very well with the amarr line even if you never fly another caldari ship That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Asmodai Xodai
Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 07:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thanks for all the advice. I will try a few different fits posted here, and if that doesn't work, may try some of the other ships suggested (naga, rokh, etc.)
I only had 1 ballistic control unit, so buying a few more now.
To the poster who advised that the neuts would be useless, I figured that out already and was using an energy vampire instead.
To the poster who told me to get rid of the reactor control units, I needed them to fit a few things. I'll play around and see if I can drop them.
Finally, I have a friend with a bunch of different ships. If nothing else works I may ask him to temporarily 'give' me some of these ships just so I can see how well I can fit and fly them, and what dps I can get out of them. If I get anything to work I will report back here, but it will be a few days before anything happens.
I don't ask for the world, I just want to be able to kill some belt rats at this juncture :) I'm playing for the long term, of course, so will keep skilling up. |
Asmodai Xodai
Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 08:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Okay, I filled the lows with ballistic control system IIs (original fit only had 1), dropped the nosferatu (worked well but required too much powergrid), and dropped the mwd for an afterburner. Also bought some navy scourge heavy assault missles.
I just went to a belt and found one conquistador with a few supporting cruisers. Was able to kill the conquistador much easier than before - took between 1 and 2 minutes I'm guessing.
Now, that's not 3 conquistadors which I faced before, but still, the results have improved tremendously.
Thanks all. |
Sandrestal
University of Caille Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 12:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Try this which is what I used to tank any spawn in Gurista space:
Highs: (6) heavy missile launchers (scourge missiles...you have been using scourge?)
Mids: (3) Large shield extenders (2) Kinetic shield hardners (powered) (1) Thermic shield hardner (powered)
Lows (3) Ballistic controls (1) Damage control
Rigs (3) Core defense field extenders
Other than rigs get best mods your skills can handle |
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Illiar D'Anaari
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 14:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Get yourself EveHQ or EFT, or any similar program that will let you load up your character and his skills and let you do virtual fits on your ship. This will give you an immediate idea as to what combination of modules will give you an optimal tank as well as the maximum dps you can put out.
Going from amarr ships to a drake is a pretty big leap in terms of cross training, since you're going from a gun+armor race to a missile+shield ship. If you plan on using guns as a future goal, and you already have armor tanking skills from being amarr, it might be a good idea to switch from caldari to gallente. With BC5, all you'd need is to train frigate and cruisers to have access to a brutix or a talos, both of which could do very well as ratting ships.
Generally speaking, if you need modules that give you +powergrid or +cpu and nothing else, this should give you a hint that you need more core skills (specifically Engineering, Electronics, and probably weapon upgrade and advanced weapon upgrade) |
Cage Man
192
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 00:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:EDIT: I have Battlecruiser V.
I'm pretty far away from any of these T2 modules like launchers and what not. My preference is not to waste too many skill points in launchers that I may not use much later as I'll probably be into guns (drake and missles was a side-shoot for me specifically for ratting). In truth, I was strictly Amarr and lasers before getting this Caldari ship. Having said that, I'll do what you guys recommend if possible.
I won't post the exact fit, but I'll give you the general gist of what I've been running.
HIGHS:
I have 2 sets of launchers I've used in the highs. Initially it was 6 heavy missle launchers. Later I switched to Arbalest heavy assault missle launchers.
Also, because I had trouble with rats repairing shields as I knocked them down, I have tried both a medium neut in the utility high, and a nosferatu unit. The one kill against a Conquistador I was able to achieve was with the neut.
MIDS:
Have tried various combos of shield extenders, and two types of resist units. One type gave across the board resists. Other type was kinetic resist at 50% or thereabouts. Also tried running a shield repair/restore unit, and a shield boost amplifier. Also, I use a mwd because the rats spawn very far away and I have to get to them quickly before they take down all of my shield.
LOWS:
Damage control I, Ballistic control II, plus 2 reactor control units.
RIGS:
Medium core defense field purger, Medium hydraulic bay thrusters I
I know I could just keep training for upgrades and launchers, but if 'big guns' will do the trick (and I plan to be in those anyway sooner or later) should I just try to jump into those?
EDIT:
I did try running 4 drones also, but they seemed to target and kill the drones quickly, so I stopped doing that.
You have purgers for rigs, you should passive tank it. Put in some shield power relays and don't omni tank it. Maybe make all rigs purgers especially if you plan on brawling them. I would however suggest a bomber if you are only belt ratting. I run my manticore without a bomb launcher when belt ratting and with a micro aux, maybe an ancil rig. can't remember, you can fit an AB, TP medium shield ext and a medium ancil shield boost, hardly need it.. but always better to be safe than sorry and it has saved me on some occasions. Just orbit at range with ab and you will take very little damage. I also fit a cloak for safety.
Oh PLEASE!!! CCP Fozzie Can I haz a Navy moa....... |
Asmodai Xodai
Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 01:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cage Man wrote: You have purgers for rigs, you should passive tank it. Put in some shield power relays and don't omni tank it. Maybe make all rigs purgers especially if you plan on brawling them. I would however suggest a bomber if you are only belt ratting. I run my manticore without a bomb launcher when belt ratting and with a micro aux, maybe an ancil rig. can't remember, you can fit an AB, TP medium shield ext and a medium ancil shield boost, hardly need it.. but always better to be safe than sorry and it has saved me on some occasions. Just orbit at range with ab and you will take very little damage. I also fit a cloak for safety.
Interesting advice. I did plan to be into stealth bombers at some point or another.
Thanks. |
Texty
State War Academy Caldari State
51
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 12:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote: I've run some numbers, and 5% better missle here and 5% better shield or grid there isn't gonna do much against what I'm currently going against. Remember that the rats regenerate their HP quite a lot. The longer it takes to kill a rat, the more HP you'll have to burn through, thus, the shorter, the less. A 5% might seem quite trivial but it's actually more effective than just 5% in practice. |
Mike Whiite
Cupid Stunts. Casoff
176
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 14:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Okay I'll put in my 2 cents.
I'f you have trouble tanking rats with a Drake stay the hel away from bombers.
Ham's do more damage true but you need to get realy close, not worth it.
High
6 Aberlest HM Launchers
Mid
- AB MN10 II - Large Shield Extender II x 3 - Kinetic shield Hardener II - Invunrability Field II
Low
BCU II x 2 Sield power relay II 2
Riggs
3 x Medium shield Purger
Ammo CN Scourge heavy missiles
get your self a couple 3% implants rof and HM damage not that expensive.
Focus in the shield extenders because of the passive tank More shield will make your shield regenaration higher.
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Fret Thiesant
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 14:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Why not go with a prophecy? Sounds like you primarily fly amarr you'll want to do drone skills anyway at some point. So no wasted sp. |
nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 16:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
using drake for belt ratting is a big overkill, too much tank, ot much dps. talos is perfect for gurista ratting, because you can field 5 small drones to get rid of tackling frigs. That's why you shouldn't do it in naga |
Naoru Kozan
The humbleless Crew
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 05:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Try something like this:
[Drake, Gurista Ratting] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Kinetic Deflection Field II Supplemental Thermic Dissipation Amplifier Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Prototype Cloaking Device I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Hobgoblin II x5
763 DPS with all level V skills.
If CPU is a problem you can drop a BCU for a Co-Processor II. The hardeners in the mids can also be tweaked. You could drop the passive kinetic amp for a target painter. MWD and cloak are really hand for null ratting. MWD + Cloak trick is great if you get caught on a gate by a hostile gang. Reds in local? Cloak up and go play Somer Blink. |
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