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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Aerallo
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
317
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:47:00 -
[91] - Quote
Andski wrote:my titan will still be in build :\
Mine will be done just in time :sun: Kaesong Kapitals - a TEST/HBC Capital/Supercapital Service http://www.kaesong-kapitals.com/ |
fukier
925
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:49:00 -
[92] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:Hi Tallest,
Can you please clarify the T2 question? WILL there be T2 capital rigs? ie, will the invention cycle even work on these new BPOs?
Also, I assume you guys went into this understanding the impact this is going to have on the salvage and rig markets. Can you talk a bit about that? Because it sure seems like this change is going to severely hurt newer players and smaller alliances, enormously raising their risk when actually using capitals. It's also going to severely strain the already absurdly volatile T2 salvage market.
But maybe there are other factors in play that I'm not aware of?
Odessey is exploration theme so maybe mag(salvage) sites wil be boosted?
Edit typing on a phone in the can is pretty ****** At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
1
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:51:00 -
[93] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:Hi Tallest,
Can you please clarify the T2 question? WILL there be T2 capital rigs? ie, will the invention cycle even work on these new BPOs?
Also, I assume you guys went into this understanding the impact this is going to have on the salvage and rig markets. Can you talk a bit about that? Because it sure seems like this change is going to severely hurt newer players and smaller alliances, enormously raising their risk when actually using capitals. It's also going to severely strain the already absurdly volatile T2 salvage market.
But maybe there are other factors in play that I'm not aware of?
Ripard, be assured, the large null sec alliances will not be hurt by this. No way that would be allowed. Newer players, smaller alliances being hurt by this, maybe they will, maybe they won't. But the devs who design changes like this are not interested in those entities. IIt all depends on if any additional changes being applied to mitigate the cost to the large alliances trickles down to the smaller players as well.
But it is pretty clear that there won't be many T2 rig fitted carriers out there, at current T2 salvage prices. It is kind of hard to justify 4.5 billion of rigs on a 1.3 billion hull.
Oh, and of course, T2 armor plates in Jita are at 20M, and rising. An hour ago they were 16M. |
Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
335
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:52:00 -
[94] - Quote
I'm pretty smug about plopping in t2 rigs in my super just earlier today before this thread was made. |
Llyona
Posthuman Society 10110001100111101000
14
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:55:00 -
[95] - Quote
Chinicata Shihari wrote:Llyona wrote:xXyoloxXxbroswagxXx420Xx wrote:Love it.
Spend 1.3b on an Archon then 4.5b on T2 rigs. Good job CCP! Look at the tools posting like they know what's up. Let's all point and laugh at them! Seriously, if the MATERIAL price increases by 5x, then that means a T2 rigged carrier will cost you 2.3-2.4b isk. The math is pretty easy: Intact Armor Plates x70 - 1.12b Interface Circuit x85 - 22m Nanite Compound x55 - 4.73m RAM x0.2 - 20k Total: 1.147b So, we'd get the following as a price calculation: 1.147*2 , then we'd add another 40m for the 3rd rig, which will be T1. 2.334b (This includes a 15% markup) Your maths is very poor. It will cost 1.5bil per Capital T2 trimark at mineral cost. Are you high, or do you normally post about **** you have no clue about? Rigs aren't manufactured with minerals, they're manufactured with salvage. T2 rigs require "blue salvage".
What I listed were the exact amounts required from an invention run with a +2/+1/+4 modifier (which is what will be used, seeing as what the material costs are).
Chinicata Shihari wrote: That means 4.5bil for 3 before markup. Thats going to make the price on a armour super sky rocket. So if a fitted aeon costs 22bil now then a fitted aeon afterwards would cost at least 26bil.
Oh man, even if we assume your wildly inflated figures are right, that's a T2 rig cost of 20.5% "fitted value".
Let's compare: Loki: Fitted, 600m T2 Rigs: 270m 45% rig value ratio.
I could do this over and over, but who gives a ****. T2 rigs have been far too cheap for caps for way too long.
EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure. |
Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
31
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:56:00 -
[96] - Quote
You all QQing about slow cats do realize that almost no one fits t2 rigs on their slow cats or dreads right? |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
384
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:57:00 -
[97] - Quote
Pocket change bring back images |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
214
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:59:00 -
[98] - Quote
So rigging a tonne of capitals before odyssey = free isk, right? This doesn't seem well thought-out to me. |
Llyona
Posthuman Society 10110001100111101000
14
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:01:00 -
[99] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:So rigging a tonne of capitals before odyssey = free isk, right? This doesn't seem well thought-out to me.
You should've seen the profits my buddy and I made off the mineral cost increases on retrievers. Thanks CCP for making my indy wallet that much fatter! EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure. |
Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
81
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:12:00 -
[100] - Quote
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:Mynas Atoch wrote:Destoya wrote:[quote=Fango Mango]It will raise the price of all rigs since salvage (especially t2 armor plates and ward consoles) is a resource with a fairly limited supply. Since every new super capital, bling WH cap, or dreads with gun rigs will be using 5x the supply of T2 salvage this will bring the price up.
Probably won't have too much of an effect on the t1 market, at least in the long run, both because supply of materials is larger and the amount of capitals that get rigged everyday is nothing compared to how many battleships do the same. You alliance must be smugging it right now. If T2 salvage triples in price due to this, as seems possible, this is potentially a 15 trillion isk boost to the value of your supercapital fleet. Way to go CCPL. So, if 3 T2 rigs go for 4.5 BIllion, as your newest CSM mouthpiece says, and you are suggesting this is a boost of 15 trillion in value, 15,000/ 4.5 = approx 3300 supercaps. So, you are saying that PL has 3300 supercaps? Or are you just really dumb at math? You missed the "T2 salvage triples in price".
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2061
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:13:00 -
[101] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Yes, you are, in terms of fitting your ship! You have equal access to modules, equal access to fitting options, and equal access to rigs. Now, do you have equal access to the ship hulls themselves? Maybe, maybe not... but this change doesn't alter that in the slightest! The change assures existing monopoly on supercaps even futher. And this is bad. Rich becomes richer, poor becomes poorer.
I believe this is an exaggeration. Moreless, a supercap oligarchy currently exists. These changes won't change the supercap distribution. It will change the cost effectiveness on rigging Carriers and Dreads, but those are already ubiquitous enough, and die regularly enough, that the change doesn't give any significant advantages to anyone.
It also doesn't change the distribution of wealth in the game. Large rigs remain large rigs. Rigs attached can't be unattached and sold, and few will be. Sure, their ships might become worth a little more, but not enough to matter in the grand scheme of things! |
fukier
926
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:13:00 -
[102] - Quote
so when are we getting capital cap injectors? that way i can actually sub a ccc for a nano pump?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
fukier
927
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:17:00 -
[103] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:The change assures existing monopoly on supercaps even futher. And this is bad. Rich becomes richer, poor becomes poorer.
well i could not afford a super cap before the patch... and still wont after the patch...
so infact it just makes the rich less rich but still stupid rich...
fingers crossed at a tech II heavy bomber... uses citidel torps... on a t3 bc hull...
that way if pl or someother super cap heavy force drops super caps you can counter with heavy bombers that cant really be hurt by titan guns or fbs... (pretty much a sub cap counter to super caps) At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Jureth22
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
58
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:17:00 -
[104] - Quote
ccp does what "he" does,and they menage to **** things up everytime |
ariana ailith
Dynakinetics Reciprocal Aegis
46
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:19:00 -
[105] - Quote
How will this affect rigs for Orca's? They're in the market as capital ships but at the same time are not really... Will they stick with large rigs? |
Vibramycin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:23:00 -
[106] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:Hi Tallest,
Can you please clarify the T2 question? WILL there be T2 capital rigs? ie, will the invention cycle even work on these new BPOs?
Also, I assume you guys went into this understanding the impact this is going to have on the salvage and rig markets. Can you talk a bit about that? Because it sure seems like this change is going to severely hurt newer players and smaller alliances, enormously raising their risk when actually using capitals. It's also going to severely strain the already absurdly volatile T2 salvage market.
But maybe there are other factors in play that I'm not aware of?
Absolutely this. The rich get richer... I'm about 8 weeks out of flying a dread well and having the money to fit it up right... Now all the old, rich players have t2 rigged toys and I'm stuck.
SIMPLE(ISH) SOLUTION: all the rigs on caps dissasemble into their components (which are dropped in cargo hold/hangar as appropriate). Warn everybody repeatedly in advance so capital pilots can make plans for re-rigging. The cap rig BPOs can be seeded well in advance of this "large rigs fall off of cap ships" date to make transition quick and easy.
This solution slightly hurts older players, but when the choice is completely gouging younger players/smaller alliances or slightly hurting old players/big alliances... I sure hope CCP knows which way to make that decision... |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
351
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:23:00 -
[107] - Quote
I'm not sure how the argument that this increases the value of supercaps is valid. What sane alliance would sell 20 supercaps to make 100B off rigs? Considering the first thing they'd need to do is buy/build new supercaps to replace the ones they lost which would cost an extra 4B-5B each to be T2 rigged. Alternately, you could save the money and use T1 rigs, ending up with something not as good. DirectX 11, it's not rocket appliance! |
Nolove Trader
Black Hole Cluster
9
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:24:00 -
[108] - Quote
ariana ailith wrote:How will this affect rigs for Orca's? They're in the market as capital ships but at the same time are not really... Will they stick with large rigs?
As far a I remember CCP sees the Orca more as a BS-sized vessel than a capital.
Some clarification from CCP would be really appreciated though. |
Fel Wrath
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
6
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:26:00 -
[109] - Quote
Vibramycin wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:Hi Tallest,
Can you please clarify the T2 question? WILL there be T2 capital rigs? ie, will the invention cycle even work on these new BPOs?
Also, I assume you guys went into this understanding the impact this is going to have on the salvage and rig markets. Can you talk a bit about that? Because it sure seems like this change is going to severely hurt newer players and smaller alliances, enormously raising their risk when actually using capitals. It's also going to severely strain the already absurdly volatile T2 salvage market.
But maybe there are other factors in play that I'm not aware of? Absolutely this. The rich get richer... I'm about 8 weeks out of flying a dread well and having the money to fit it up right... Now all the old, rich players have t2 rigged toys and I'm stuck. SIMPLE(ISH) SOLUTION: all the rigs on caps dissasemble into their components (which are dropped in cargo hold/hangar as appropriate). Warn everybody repeatedly in advance so capital pilots can make plans for re-rigging. The cap rig BPOs can be seeded well in advance of this "large rigs fall off of cap ships" date to make transition quick and easy. This solution slightly hurts older players, but when the choice is completely gouging younger players/smaller alliances or slightly hurting old players/big alliances... I sure hope CCP knows which way to make that decision...
Shhhhh! I'm trying to make some money off this!
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Vibramycin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:33:00 -
[110] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Yes, you are, in terms of fitting your ship! You have equal access to modules, equal access to fitting options, and equal access to rigs. Now, do you have equal access to the ship hulls themselves? Maybe, maybe not... but this change doesn't alter that in the slightest! The change assures existing monopoly on supercaps even futher. And this is bad. Rich becomes richer, poor becomes poorer. I believe this is an exaggeration. Moreless, a supercap oligarchy currently exists. These changes won't change the supercap distribution. It will change the cost effectiveness on rigging Carriers and Dreads, but those are already ubiquitous enough, and die regularly enough, that the change doesn't give any significant advantages to anyone. It also doesn't change the distribution of wealth in the game. Large rigs remain large rigs. Rigs attached can't be unattached and sold, and few will be. Sure, their ships might become worth a little more, but not enough to matter in the grand scheme of things!
um, t2 trimarks on a cap (to pick one example) will be nominally worth something like 1.5 billion each after patch. that's not "a little more" in my book. Not for carriers/dreads anyway.
You don't need to unattach the rigs to get value out of them. Unless you rigged completely weird, you WILL find a buyer who wants those rigs and will be able to get top price for it. This isn't like somebody trying to sell a raven with t2 trimarks saying boohoo nobody will pay me for my rigs. Fittings are more standard, choices usually more clear, and the number of permutations MUCH lower (17 combat cap ships total vs >250 subcaps) |
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Mrs Winter
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:41:00 -
[111] - Quote
ariana ailith wrote:How will this affect rigs for Orca's? They're in the market as capital ships but at the same time are not really... Will they stick with large rigs?
Good question! |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
7
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:47:00 -
[112] - Quote
Mrs Winter wrote:Its not really. You cannot take the rigs off the ships. And its not like you can sell your rigged Super/Titan for profit.... Yes, I can. |
Ager Agemo
Imperial Collective
269
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:50:00 -
[113] - Quote
I read the topic and my first though was LOL! ****** rig manufacturers right there! now rigging T2 battleships will become 10 times more cheaper... but salvagers will become rich with the amount of salvage that stuff will take.. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
25
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:53:00 -
[114] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Mrs Winter wrote:Its not really. You cannot take the rigs off the ships. And its not like you can sell your rigged Super/Titan for profit.... Yes, I can.
to clarify - make/buy load of caps T2 rig them prepatch sell postpatch |
Draconic Slayer
Cold Moon Destruction Transmission Lost
19
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:53:00 -
[115] - Quote
Schmell wrote:Fango Mango wrote:Krell Kroenen wrote:Ivana Twinkle wrote:Because those large trimark II's just aren't expensive enough. Well with these rigs consuming 5 times the resources I imagine that will drive up the costs of other rigs as well, at least a wee bit. I imagine this will drop the prices for battleship sized trimark IIs. No one is going to spend 4.5 billion to rig a carrier or a dread. Therefore demand will drop and prices will drop. -FM Tech 2 large trimarks are exclusively supercap busincess. Nobody does that for dreads and carriers. So demand for tech 2 trimarks will likely go down to around zero. What that will do to prices? Who knows
What do you mean no one T2 Trimarks dreads? Of course we do. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
905
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:55:00 -
[116] - Quote
You know, an actual balance concern is that this makes armor caps that much stronger in some small way. I'm told remote rep augmentors don't work for caps right now, but presumably a capital version will exist as a result of this change. That's a rather large deal for triage carriers, except there is no equivalent for remote shield boosters. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
675
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:59:00 -
[117] - Quote
mynnna wrote:You know, an actual balance concern is that this makes armor caps that much stronger in some small way. I'm told remote rep augmentors don't work for caps right now, but presumably a capital version will exist as a result of this change. That's a rather large deal for triage carriers, except there is no equivalent for remote shield boosters.
I'm fairly sure that the RRAs already work on capital RAR mods. |
fukier
927
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:59:00 -
[118] - Quote
mynnna wrote:You know, an actual balance concern is that this makes armor caps that much stronger in some small way. I'm told remote rep augmentors don't work for caps right now, but presumably a capital version will exist as a result of this change. That's a rather large deal for triage carriers, except there is no equivalent for remote shield boosters. Draconic Slayer wrote: What do you mean no one T2 Trimarks dreads? Of course we do.
People in wormholes and I guess maybe some lowsec pilots do, because the numbers involved are smaller. Bloc dread pilots don't, though, because the extra EHP is rarely a matter of "do I live or die" but rather "how many extra seconds do I live?"
whats thier effectivness vrs ccc?
perhaps the slight increase is ok incomparison to delayed reps? or does that not really matter since you are not going to alpha a super cap...
Gypsio III wrote: I'm fairly sure that the RRAs already work on capital RAR mods.
can someone confirm this? At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Tarnia Xavian
Redheads and Railguns
0
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:59:00 -
[119] - Quote
Killing capitals will be even more satisfying after June. |
Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
82
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Posted - 2013.04.23 19:04:00 -
[120] - Quote
The simple solution is to detach any rigs of the wrong size on all ships, and stick them in the ship's cargo hold.
This should have been done when the original rig split into small, medium and large happened, but CCP were a lot less confident in their database teams ability to do this sort of thing without buggering it up back then. |
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