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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
Lurifax
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
7
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Posted - 2013.05.04 16:13:00 -
[961] - Quote
Soko99 wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Soko99 wrote:In a WH you don't have local, and that's my point.. The PROBES gave you a headsup to GTFO.. In Odyssey, a fast tackle can jump into a system, scan down the grav site and warp there BEFORE whoever is in that belt will be able to align to warp out. (and that's in a regular system where the miner has the warning of local) in WHs,,. your only warning will be the guy decloaking and scramming you. waitwaitwait, a drop in WH mining is going to double prices across the board? No.. but makign mining in the dangerous areas of space, become even more of a turkey shoot. will cause a drop in those spaces being used for mining.. Which in turn will reduce supply, and thus drive prices.
So are you talking about 0.0 mining again? Which really wont be impacted in regards to safety or are just trolling ? |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
18
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Posted - 2013.05.04 16:15:00 -
[962] - Quote
Lurifax wrote:Soko99 wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Soko99 wrote:In a WH you don't have local, and that's my point.. The PROBES gave you a headsup to GTFO.. In Odyssey, a fast tackle can jump into a system, scan down the grav site and warp there BEFORE whoever is in that belt will be able to align to warp out. (and that's in a regular system where the miner has the warning of local) in WHs,,. your only warning will be the guy decloaking and scramming you. waitwaitwait, a drop in WH mining is going to double prices across the board? No.. but makign mining in the dangerous areas of space, become even more of a turkey shoot. will cause a drop in those spaces being used for mining.. Which in turn will reduce supply, and thus drive prices. So are you talking about 0.0 mining again? Which really wont be impacted in regards to safety or are just trolling ?
I am talking about ALL mining.. but not ICE mining. since the issue I'm discussing is the changing of sites to anoms.
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Lurifax
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
7
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Posted - 2013.05.04 16:27:00 -
[963] - Quote
Soko99 wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Soko99 wrote:No.. but makign mining in the dangerous areas of space, become even more of a turkey shoot. will cause a drop in those spaces being used for mining.. Which in turn will reduce supply, and thus drive prices. And with that you've crossed from the terrible to the ridiculous. Good day. So you seriously don't think that turning grav sites in low/null/WH will cause people to stop mining in them? Considering, that when someone jumps into a system, they still needed to SCAN you down with probes before they could warp to you. Which gave you enough time to align your ships and bounce to a pos/safe/etc. All for a HUGE profit boost of an extra 10 mil an hour?
The changes means that ppl mining are now found the same way as you find ppl in forsaken hubs. Ppl are still running does. I do not see ppl stop mining in 0.0 becuase of this. In regards to WH I will not comment on that since I do not know anything about the WH mechanics or how much of the total ore they supply. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
18
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Posted - 2013.05.04 16:31:00 -
[964] - Quote
Lurifax wrote:
The changes means that ppl mining are now found the same way as you find ppl in forsaken hubs. Ppl are still running does. I do not see ppl stop mining in 0.0 becuase of this. In regards to WH I will not comment on that since I do not know anything about the WH mechanics or how much of the total ore they supply.
Yeah.. but you're not sitting in the same forsaken hub for a full day, also, at least with a ship that can run combat anoms you stand a bit of a chance in fighting back versus your attacker. (small chance since the pve vs pvp fitting is very different, but you still stand more of a chance than you do with a mining ship) Not to mention, most ships running sites, are WAY faster at aligning than mining ships. |
Lurifax
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
7
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Posted - 2013.05.04 16:38:00 -
[965] - Quote
Soko99 wrote:Lurifax wrote:
The changes means that ppl mining are now found the same way as you find ppl in forsaken hubs. Ppl are still running does. I do not see ppl stop mining in 0.0 becuase of this. In regards to WH I will not comment on that since I do not know anything about the WH mechanics or how much of the total ore they supply.
Yeah.. but you're not sitting in the same forsaken hub for a full day, also, at least with a ship that can run combat anoms you stand a bit of a chance in fighting back versus your attacker. (small chance since the pve vs pvp fitting is very different, but you still stand more of a chance than you do with a mining ship) Not to mention, most ships running sites, are WAY faster at aligning than mining ships.
So here we are talking about 0.0 mining. I alredy talked about the use of bubbles. You could align your mining ship? With these changes mining will become a bit like ratting. If they caught you it is because you were bad/afk.
edit:spelling |
Flash Phoenix
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.05.04 16:51:00 -
[966] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Deal. But ONLY in low sec and NPC null sec. Sov null sec is too easy to transform into an endless bot-land and there's nobody to report the bots and it's too easy for them to detect neuts in local and warp to POS / safe. You can still run a bot empire in lowsec or NPC null. Empty regions like Stain and Outer Ring are full of them. If limiting the amount of damage a group of botters could do was your main objective, making it easier for miners to get caught would be best because then you need to have an active defense fleet. You can't bot a defense fleet. At the same time you can reward players for taking the additional risk, either by giving them more reward or by removing excess supply. Odyssey is a baby step in both directions. If they took any larger steps in just one patch people would be shooting monuments in Jita because of their irrational hate of nullsec players.
how about CCP take care of the botters and and PvP look for some interactive kills instead of ganks. CCP has stated nothing in this upgrade is about botting |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
251
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:08:00 -
[967] - Quote
Lurifax wrote:[
So here we are talking about 0.0 mining. I alredy talked about the use of bubbles. You could align your mining ship? With these changes mining will become a bit like ratting. If they caught you it is because you were bad/afk.
The problem is that nullbears are getting a big freebie for near zero additional risk. It's funny, nullsec players are quick to claim that additional risk should yield additional profit, but I don't see how giving nullbears free mins for the same ore increases their risk. Do the roids explode now? Or will we be taking away local in nullsec?
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
28
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:09:00 -
[968] - Quote
Lurifax wrote:Soko99 wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Soko99 wrote:No.. but makign mining in the dangerous areas of space, become even more of a turkey shoot. will cause a drop in those spaces being used for mining.. Which in turn will reduce supply, and thus drive prices. And with that you've crossed from the terrible to the ridiculous. Good day. So you seriously don't think that turning grav sites in low/null/WH will cause people to stop mining in them? Considering, that when someone jumps into a system, they still needed to SCAN you down with probes before they could warp to you. Which gave you enough time to align your ships and bounce to a pos/safe/etc. All for a HUGE profit boost of an extra 10 mil an hour? The changes means that ppl mining are now found the same way as you find ppl in forsaken hubs. Ppl are still running does. I do not see ppl stop mining in 0.0 becuase of this. In regards to WH I will not comment on that since I do not know anything about the WH mechanics or how much of the total ore they supply. Null will handle this. It's about the hisec rock chewers. It's about the fact hisec looses a really big portion of the resource market. It's about the fact ganking could get more profitable then mission running in hisec. And way quicker isk. Tbh, i doubt that the guy implementing this had even the smallest ideea of the implications. Seeing this happen will bring a lot of good time and joy to some What i bet on is the fact that all this fun and joy won't be for some expecting to get it, after a time.
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Lurifax
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
7
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:32:00 -
[969] - Quote
@Oldwolf69
could you explain why these changes would suddenly make ganking so profitable? It is my impression that ganking has always been profitable, if you did a cost benefit before you ganked.
The highsec rockchewers might take a loss on the mining, but how big this will be we can only guess. |
OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
28
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:41:00 -
[970] - Quote
Let's do a cloaky alt in your ice anom. And gank the haulers, orcas and whatever. Loot with neutral alts, rinse and repeat. Then extorcate.After a time, go back to ganking. Rinse and repeat. Miners will sing best gospel and bluegrass ever heard in this world, after a time. And i'm affraid there will be no Abe Lincoln for them. Just a James. *** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bquVRnGaFHQ " When Israel was in EgyptGÇÖs land, Let My people go! Oppressed so hard they could not stand, Let My people go! Refrain: Go down, Moses, Way down in EgyptGÇÖs land; Tell old Pharaoh To let My people go! No more shall they in bondage toil, Let My people go! Let them come out with EgyptGÇÖs spoil, Let My people go! Oh, let us all from bondage flee, Let My people go! And let us all in Christ be free, Let My people go! You need not always weep and mourn, Let My people go! And wear these slavGÇÖry chains forlorn, Let My people go! Your foes shall not before you stand, Let My people go! And youGÇÖll possess fair CanaanGÇÖs land, Let My people go!"
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Lurifax
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
7
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:53:00 -
[971] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Lurifax wrote:[
So here we are talking about 0.0 mining. I alredy talked about the use of bubbles. You could align your mining ship? With these changes mining will become a bit like ratting. If they caught you it is because you were bad/afk. The problem is that nullbears are getting a big freebie for near zero additional risk. It's funny, nullsec players are quick to claim that additional risk should yield additional profit, but I don't see how giving nullbears free mins for the same ore increases their risk. Do the roids explode now? Or will we be taking away local in nullsec?
The Astoride composition was changed becasuse CCP wished to reduce the 0.0 dependency on highsec. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
19
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:54:00 -
[972] - Quote
Lurifax wrote:Soko99 wrote:Lurifax wrote:
The changes means that ppl mining are now found the same way as you find ppl in forsaken hubs. Ppl are still running does. I do not see ppl stop mining in 0.0 becuase of this. In regards to WH I will not comment on that since I do not know anything about the WH mechanics or how much of the total ore they supply.
Yeah.. but you're not sitting in the same forsaken hub for a full day, also, at least with a ship that can run combat anoms you stand a bit of a chance in fighting back versus your attacker. (small chance since the pve vs pvp fitting is very different, but you still stand more of a chance than you do with a mining ship) Not to mention, most ships running sites, are WAY faster at aligning than mining ships. So here we are talking about 0.0 mining. I alredy talked about the use of bubbles. You could align your mining ship? With these changes mining will become a bit like ratting. If they caught you it is because you were bad/afk. edit:spelling
have you tried mining while aligned? it's a real PITA. Aside from making constant BMS to make sure that the roid you're mining is actually in range of the 2 BMs so you can go back and forth, AND assuming you don't get stuck on rocks along your path. You still have to deal with the issue of dumping your cans which will VERY quickly be out of range for you to actual put your minerals in. (unless you suggest an ORCA or rorqual follows you into the belt and sits with you there just chugging along with your miners picking up their cans as they go) |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:57:00 -
[973] - Quote
Flash Phoenix wrote:
how about CCP take care of the botters and and PvP look for some interactive kills instead of ganks. CCP has stated nothing in this upgrade is about botting
that's the problem.. This change will do nothing for the botters since their responses are automatic and do not suffer from human delay. But it will mess up the humans a LOT since they're now having even less reaction time to be safe. |
Soko99
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.05.04 18:00:00 -
[974] - Quote
OldWolf69 wrote:Let's do a cloaky alt in your ice anom. And gank the haulers, orcas and whatever. Loot with neutral alts, rinse and repeat. Then extorcate.After a time, go back to ganking. Rinse and repeat. Miners will sing best gospel and bluegrass ever heard in this world, after a time. And i'm affraid there will be no Abe Lincoln for them. Just a James.
oh and don't forget that gankers will now be able to get rid of their flashyness by just spending isk on tags.
I'm starting to worry here.. I'm agreeing with spacemonkeys.. :D guess the end is nigh.. :) |
OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
29
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Posted - 2013.05.04 18:02:00 -
[975] - Quote
Bots are bots. And afk'ers are in no way different. They all bots to me. No matter if they mine, pve or pvp. But i'm really open about my opinion, not like CCP wich's all "they bots if they are not mine". |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4022
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Posted - 2013.05.04 18:08:00 -
[976] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: CCP are neither changing the absolutely craptastic AFK-bot-friendly game mechanic nor introducing any incentive for PvPers to waste hours and hours playing watch on something that will never come or - if it'll come - it'll have scanned them and will bring in enough to crush them anyway.
The "static caravans / sitting ducks staying pinned down there" whole concept is wrong. Who's so stupid to accept sitting in a defensless ship if there's consistent risk being popped?
anyone who can do math and figure out the expected rate of return is quite high, who does not soil themselves in fear of losing a ship
That's why almost nobody mined endless ice in sov null sec when in 2012 it was worth 1500 ISK pu, right? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4022
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Posted - 2013.05.04 18:11:00 -
[977] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Soko99 wrote:I wonder if you'll be saying this in 4-5 months when prices double for your precious ships and modules. You guys can put down carebearing all you want, but it's the only thing keeping ships in your hangar bay and modules in your inventory to fly those ships. Sounds great. Everything is too cheap, especially ice.
My 140B invested in ice have already turned into 200B, but hey it can't hurt if they become 250 Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
29
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Posted - 2013.05.04 18:14:00 -
[978] - Quote
People won't be ever confortable with getting popped just as easy, no matter the reward. Trying to force them to feel confortable is really stupid. Baiting them won't work either. But you can't explain that to a nerd. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4022
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Posted - 2013.05.04 18:26:00 -
[979] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:mynnna wrote:I must tip my hat (or would if I had one) since I did actually forget about the doubled harvester speed. I think the other variations are just small variations though. I just used whatever blocks/hour eve IPH told me. Expecting each and every caldari ice belt to have over 300 miners apiece each and every time they're up is still a rather absurd expectation, however. Odd how your precise and brown nosed (by the other guy) math is inflatable on demand. I presented a *rough* estimate of 200, which is somewhat below the 300 you say.
Quoting myself and Mynna again, about this irrealistic "200 in local" number of mine.
Here's a screenshot taken some ago, that is it's not even prime time.
So, 170 in local, today, not in prime time yet.
I am certainly SO FAR from "possible 200 in local to reap all ice fast" post patch as I stated, eh? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
680
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Posted - 2013.05.04 19:58:00 -
[980] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: CCP are neither changing the absolutely craptastic AFK-bot-friendly game mechanic nor introducing any incentive for PvPers to waste hours and hours playing watch on something that will never come or - if it'll come - it'll have scanned them and will bring in enough to crush them anyway.
The "static caravans / sitting ducks staying pinned down there" whole concept is wrong. Who's so stupid to accept sitting in a defensless ship if there's consistent risk being popped?
anyone who can do math and figure out the expected rate of return is quite high, who does nonajthemselves in fear of losing a ship That's why almost nobody mined endless ice in sov null sec when in 2012 it was worth 1500 ISK pu, right? When we interdicted gallente ice people did mine much more in null, despite our best efforts to stop them. That's confirmed by the devblog on it.
Facts are troublesome things. |
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
825
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Posted - 2013.05.04 19:59:00 -
[981] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Facts are troublesome things.
Best ignored.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4023
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Posted - 2013.05.04 20:09:00 -
[982] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: CCP are neither changing the absolutely craptastic AFK-bot-friendly game mechanic nor introducing any incentive for PvPers to waste hours and hours playing watch on something that will never come or - if it'll come - it'll have scanned them and will bring in enough to crush them anyway.
The "static caravans / sitting ducks staying pinned down there" whole concept is wrong. Who's so stupid to accept sitting in a defensless ship if there's consistent risk being popped?
anyone who can do math and figure out the expected rate of return is quite high, who does nonajthemselves in fear of losing a ship That's why almost nobody mined endless ice in sov null sec when in 2012 it was worth 1500 ISK pu, right? When we interdicted gallente ice people did mine much more in null, despite our best efforts to stop them. That's confirmed by the devblog on it. Facts are troublesome things.
So, a relatively short event clearly dictates years of nothingness, eh? That is many years of almost nothing are clearly contradicted by your lol short event?
"Facts" is a BOLD word in your mouth. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4023
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Posted - 2013.05.04 20:09:00 -
[983] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:Facts are troublesome things. Best ignored.
What's all that brown material around your nose? No, it's not Nutella! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Cyprus Black
No Flux Given
757
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Posted - 2013.05.04 20:41:00 -
[984] - Quote
Rather disappointed with this expansion, if it can even be called an expansion.
Lots of background changes and cosmetic changes. Nothing more. No new content. The last expansion that actually had real content was Incarna and that was a ******* disaster.
Crucible, Inferno, Retribution and Odyssey are not legitimate expansions. They're background changes, cosmetic changes and number rebalances. Trolling is like art. Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1048
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Posted - 2013.05.04 20:51:00 -
[985] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:mynnna wrote:I must tip my hat (or would if I had one) since I did actually forget about the doubled harvester speed. I think the other variations are just small variations though. I just used whatever blocks/hour eve IPH told me. Expecting each and every caldari ice belt to have over 300 miners apiece each and every time they're up is still a rather absurd expectation, however. Odd how your precise and brown nosed (by the other guy) math is inflatable on demand. I presented a *rough* estimate of 200, which is somewhat below the 300 you say. Quoting myself and Mynna again, about this irrealistic "200 in local" number of mine. Here's a screenshot taken some ago, that is it's not even prime time. So, 170 in local, today, not in prime time yet. I am certainly SO FAR from "possible 200 in local to reap all ice fast" post patch as I stated, eh?
I did not say 300 miners in a belt was unrealistic. I fully expect some of the caldari belts closest to Jita will have 300 miners in them, at least during prime time respawns.
What I said was unrealistic was your idea that there would be nine thousand miners on hand - 300 for every single one of the thirty caldari ice belts - at every single one of the five (six, really, if we're seeing them mined that quickly) respawns throughout the day. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4023
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Posted - 2013.05.04 22:16:00 -
[986] - Quote
mynnna wrote: What I said was unrealistic was your idea that there would be nine thousand miners on hand - 300 for every single one of the thirty caldari ice belts - at every single one of the five (six, really, if we're seeing them mined that quickly) respawns throughout the day.
It's not important whether they are 300 all day long or not, what matters is if they are consistently 300 during some prime time for an important time zone, say i.e. USA.
Would you care if the belts are left untouched all day long, but are farmed empty from 1 hour before you log in to 3 hours after, all days, every days?
That's the injustice I don't like to see. And you know (unlike most EvE players) I don't even talk about my own interest, as I play when I am sure I'll always find belts up and I already have large stockpiles anyway.
But the fact this quite fake-smelling timer does not affect me does not mean it's fair for the other players. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1050
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Posted - 2013.05.04 22:35:00 -
[987] - Quote
I'm sorry that you feel that a timer on how often an exhausted resource reappears for no discernible reason out of thin air (well, out of the vacuum of space, anyway) feels "fake". Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Frezinviper
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.04 22:48:00 -
[988] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Would you care if the belts are left untouched all day long, but are farmed empty from 1 hour before you log in to 3 hours after, all days, every days?
That's the injustice I don't like to see. And you know (unlike most EvE players) I don't even talk about my own interest, as I play when I am sure I'll always find belts up and I already have large stockpiles anyway.
OMG, you been crying about your AFK mining bot tears for 20+ pages now. Enough is enough!
There is NO INJUSTICE as you like to think. If you are unfortunate to log in and find no ice in your favorite HIGHSEC bot mining system then I guess you will have to find a new place to mine!
CCP Fozzie wrote:For the people asking about supply in other areas of space, there are approximately 8 lowsec/0.0 ice belts for every highsec belt, and those belts are a bit larger.
If you don't get it then I guess you never will... take you measly 200b ISK and go buy some friends that want to listen to you cry about your how your AFK bot mining will no longer be easy! |
xinthorminaias
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2013.05.05 00:08:00 -
[989] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:For the people asking about supply in other areas of space, there are approximately 8 lowsec/0.0 ice belts for every highsec belt, and those belts are a bit larger.
ice won't be mined in low sec - the price hike required to make it worthwhile will reduce demand to a level where it could be met by high sec. If you are going to low sec it would make more sense to go ratting or run a few exploration sites.
When they moved level 5's out of high sec people just stopped running them.
This will end badly.
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LoanWolf Tivianne
Ace's And 8's
16
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Posted - 2013.05.05 00:12:00 -
[990] - Quote
im still trying to figure out where this increased reward in wh space is going to come from for the triple amount of danger added to mining in whs from removing the ore out of graves and makeing them found by just scanning yea my spelling sucks so do you go back to work school teacher your not wanted here |
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