Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 .. 19 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 32 post(s) |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
226
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:04:00 -
[241] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Mis'tral wrote:So if you are doing solo hacking sites, you can eventually get all the items, providing you are in range, you fly to them or TB them to you? From the descriptions provided thus far, the impression is that you can actually miss alot of items from hacked containers (if you don't have a buddy helping you 'collect' them in time).
If the above is true, what's from stopping you hack all containers in a site one after another (not bothering to 'catch' them), then just fly around and collect all the items? It's something you can do solo but you aren't penalised for wanting to do it in a group. The containers in question aren't designed to last in open space so they degrade reasonably quickly and are destroyed along with their contents. You'll do good as a solo player but better with someone else, Garresh's comments about opportunity cost are dead on. We're of course experimenting with values for all of these things internally and will be watching and adjusting things on an on-going basis as this hits Sisi and TQ.
Completely destroyed? Can we be able to "salvage" the destroyed containers and its contents? If not, please have it so the hacked site recovers from the hacking virus and shoots the containers down. That has a better feel than the not-designed-from-space angle. |
marVLs
118
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:06:00 -
[242] - Quote
Floating disappearing cans are good idea (can solo and with friends with the same income for everyone) - APPROVED if this will be one of many systems not only one
Minigame hmm meeh not sure about it, it can be easily boring and frustrating (especially in LS when You must keep eye on local/scan) - HALF APPROVED and only if this will be one of many systems not only one
Make some interesting, diverse hacking system. And make REAL exploring.
I'm afraid the most that we will get another one type mechanic for every exploration site... What is exploration by players and CCP (damn by every person on this planet)? Answer: Unpredictable, always something new!!! That's the most important thing! When i go exploring i don't know what to expect, what i will need to do to get loot, or spawn some stuff etc, every site should be different, not: every hacking site is be the same minigame, same floating cans etc... |
Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:07:00 -
[243] - Quote
Even if the loot will be equal.
People will not care about the can they could catch, but be sorry about those they couldn't. You'll probably have more players angry and disliking this part of the game. I doubt they will be calling on their friends to go can hunting. They will call upon their friends to go ship hunting or so.
Somehow this feels like giving solo players a bad feeling about playing solo. That's why it feels like forcing group play. |
Moth Eisig
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:10:00 -
[244] - Quote
Most of this thread has focused on the minigames and loot pinata, but the real game changer is removing NPC rats from exploration sites, and I'm not sure how I feel about that part.
For one, I've spent several weeks now training up a second account to do the combat portion of harder low/null sites since having a ship that scans and opens containers and can handle the NPCs all at once is hard to do. Now that account will have almost no purpose for me, and unless I can split screen and grab more loot with two ships, I might just let that account expire.
No NPCs also mean that we will see both a lot of stabbed cloaky frigates doing exploration, at least initially, but I'm worried that exploration in low sec (where I am most active), will be completely taken over by the small-gang PvPers.
Before, there was no reason for explorers to cooperate with the PvP gangs. Explorers gained nothing from teaming up with PvPers because they could get all the loot themselves without any help, so why share if you don't have to. Now the reverse is true, there is no reason *not* to team up with PvP gangs because the explorers get added protection, help with chasing out other explorers, and the loot the PvPers get as payment s loot the scanners would have missed out on anyhow.
At the same time, the combat gangs only have to be present if there's someone to shoot (which they want to do anyhow) or when the loot is ready to pop. It's basically extra income for them for no extra effort while bypassing the majority of the unexciting non-PvP parts, so there's zero reason for them not to muscle in on exploration.
All this is as planned to get more fights for those who like PvP, but it will make solo exploring in low sec extremely difficult. I don't mind having to be more wary, but solo exploration is what I enjoy right now in EVE, and I don't want to see its viability completely vanish. I'm glad CCP is saying they don't want solo exploration to vanish, but I'd like to hear someone give reasons for why this won't happen.
|
Fereval Kondur
Brave Newbies Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:14:00 -
[245] - Quote
I know that CCP stated that there was no plan yet to expand upon mining.
Actually, the comparison between two profession is interesting I think.
We have here two activity which shares they "simple" or basic ultimate tasks (eg; put module on, gather loot), but that require both thoughtful preparation logistically speaking in order to excel.
If apparently exploration need a minigame to be attractive, by how much mining does ?
What I'm trying to convey here is that for me EVE "fun" has never been grounded on the pure instant of interaction between the player and the UI (which may define pretty much an "action game"), but on the decision making which scale at any step where the EVE player engage itself (be it's carrier path, or the choice between 2 targets in the fire of pewpew).
What could enhance the actual minigame while keeping the "interaction" that you appear to seek is therefore integrating this decision-making component into its core mechanics.
Could the resolution of the hacking process affect the loot not only in a binary manner ? Why do I choose to grab this can instead of another ?
TLDR: Minigames may be acceptable, but at least try to put into them some meaning. Can you manage to combine EVE's depth with "reactivity". |
|
CCP Bayesian
645
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:14:00 -
[246] - Quote
Solkara Starlock wrote:Even if the loot will be equal.
People will not care about the can they could catch, but be sorry about those they couldn't. You'll probably have more players angry and disliking this part of the game. I doubt they will be calling on their friends to go can hunting. They will call upon their friends to go ship hunting or so.
Somehow this feels like giving solo players a bad feeling about playing solo. That's why it feels like forcing group play.
I guess there is an analogy with fishing in the real world. One rod only gets you so much no matter how many fish you see swim by and there is satisfaction at getting better at fishing and netting more fish. Bringing a friend along means you can near enough always get more fish so long as there are enough to catch by spreading out to cover more river. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
429
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:16:00 -
[247] - Quote
I love the direction you are going in, CCP, introducing mini-games. This is the way to make the different aspects of EVE truly different, not all the same stuff with just a different name.
Now I don't know whether I will like this particular exploration mini-game, we will see. But if you make a lot of such things for different aspects of EVE, and make them really diverse, everyone will find some things they really enjoy. And some other things which they hate or are just bad at. And that's exactly how it should be! Are people in real life good at every profession? Hardly. When professions are really different, and require different skills and interests, only then they are true professions.
As for the whiners who want no "twitching" in EVE: Fine, continue doing what you did before, go do some missions and click on cans. I'm absolutely in favor of keeping some of this old content around for those who want it. So you won't miss anything. Let us others have the new stuff!
Now make more radically diverse mini-games for: -PI -mining -manufacturing (obviously no action game there, something that involves thinking and analysis) -archaelogy (the new game apparently involves hacking, so there could be a separate mini-game for mag sites further down the road)
And in the spirit of how you seem to finally try to make EVE more immersive and make more things happen in the game graphics and not in the database-dump-UI, there could be other new activities that involve manually flying and similar stuff. The possibilities are endless. . |
Nicen Jehr
Swarm Federation
187
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:18:00 -
[248] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:I guess there is an analogy with fishing in the real world. One rod only gets you so much no matter how many fish you see swim by and there is satisfaction at getting better at fishing and netting more fish. Bringing a friend along means you can near enough always get more fish so long as there are enough to catch by spreading out to cover more river. since this is eve we can safely say someone will end up with a fishhook in the eye Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á| My Little Things posts |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
115
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:19:00 -
[249] - Quote
During the eve keynote, I believe it was mentioned that you wanted to move exploration away from the current mechanics of shooting red crosses and looting cans (aka being identical to missions and combat anoms). Something was also stated along the lines of 'it doesn't make sense to discover something new and have pirates waiting for you'. Likewise, during the exploration demonstration there were no hostile npcs that needed to be killed.
So several questions: 1) Will all exploration (radar/mag) sites no longer have hostile npc's?
2) Will all exploration sites be affected by the changes, or will some have the old system i.e. we keep all of the old sites but in addition we have some new sites with mini-game thrown into the mix?
3) If exploration does become non-combat, would that make the covert-ops exploration frigates actually viable as explorers or will there be environmental factors/sources of damage that would make us want to take the typical combat fit T3/BC/BS? |
Lost True
Paradise project
2124
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:19:00 -
[250] - Quote
Well, it's sound like somthing interesting.
So it'll be better to do it with a covet ops ship? in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much? [-á-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦] -£-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦ -¦-+-Ç-+-+-Ç-¦-å-+-Å Transtellar |
|
Alicia Evelyn
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:20:00 -
[251] - Quote
I'd like to suggest that you make the mini-game cooperative and even potentially competitive. So one person could "hack" the site by playing the mini-game, but two or more people could work together to do it faster. Loot should result continuously from the mini-game playing process.
I think there's a lot of room for interesting experimentation there without resorting to a gimmicky twitch based mechanic. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:20:00 -
[252] - Quote
Are we getting Diablo Style "Hold alt key Grab Everything Possible" type of looting now?
Now while the above is relevant, I do like that Exploration sites can now be teamed up with. Everybody gets something, and they have to be attentive and "There" to get it. You can potentially get MORE if you bring 2 or 3 people with you, rather than trying to max out profits by doing it solo (so you keep the cool shiny stuff).
Can the above be tweaked, I believe so. Good idea.
Assume people flying in a bazillion alts, or bringing a pair of catalysts with 8 tractor beams each to mass scoop stuff.. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1788
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:23:00 -
[253] - Quote
For solar systems with multiple sites having a friend along increases the wealth for both of you. You both scan a site out, then both go to the first one, hack and grab. Then you both go to the second one, hack and grab. As the scanning was done in parallel, some time is saved. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
147
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:25:00 -
[254] - Quote
Lost True wrote:Well, it's sound like somthing interesting.
So it'll be better to do it with a covet ops ship?
YES! Especially officer fit cov ops ships and you won't even have to do the hacking. Just wait at the can and grab the good bits when it pops out....the officer and faction mods will increase the chances of getting something good. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3321
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:26:00 -
[255] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:This is 11 pages and I haven't caught everything, but can someone explain the purpose of the loot just spilling and floating away? It makes zero sense.
The purpose is to provide interaction through reaching out and touching, just like CCP Soundwave told us in his presentation about game design principles. So rather than sit there with modules cycling so we can simply open a can and take the loot, we are presented with a puzzle to solve: where do you sit yourself so that you can collect the greatest number of cans? If you have two people you theoretically double your chances since you can cover twice as much space. This is how teamwork/alts will be rewarded. It is like placing fielders in a game of cricket or baseball.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
568
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:27:00 -
[256] - Quote
Why make exploration even more random than it currently is? Not only do you have to get a good drop, but now you have to get lucky and grab the right cans too?
|
Krants
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:29:00 -
[257] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Minigame hmm meeh not sure about it, it can be easily boring and frustrating (especially in LS when You must keep eye on local/scan) - HALF APPROVED and only if this will be one of many systems not only one
Make some interesting, diverse hacking system. And make REAL exploring.
They could add much more variables to hacking mini game - try to hack the wrecked ships computer in hard mode to depressurize docking chamber so that loot wouldn't drift away when you finish that mini-game, or if you fail in mini-game the wreck explodes and damages your ship. There are so many small ways to make it more real, more Eve like of cause-effect based on player choices. |
|
CCP Bayesian
647
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:31:00 -
[258] - Quote
Fereval Kondur, those are all good points. We definitely agree that the larger scale gameplay, particularly when it gets social is what defines EVE as a game. That doesn't mean the tasks that you can do and organise around shouldn't also be interesting in themselves. We have plenty of people working on "the Universe" but the details do need some love as well. I would absolutely love to tie this into EVE on a wider scale and we have some exciting ideas for future iterations that I'll go into in the devblog.
Things like success in the minigame affecting the scattering in a non-binary manner is most definitely on the table. For example at a basic level we could add in secondary objectives that if complete cause the scattered cans to be obviously distinguishable (in a context appropriate manner, like discovering the "cargo manifest"). We're also thinking of ways of tying some new items from the hacking into the market but that needs some more thinking so is unlikely to make the first release.
What happens depends on what we see the feature doing on TQ. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
Lost True
Paradise project
2124
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:31:00 -
[259] - Quote
I wonder if it can became an interesting thing to do in highsec, along with the mining. It's fine if it's can be done in the group, i'd like to invite a friend or just someone from the local (which is something i like about the high sec - i can do so without screwing things up) to collect the things.
But...
1. It's should be proffitable. At least not less than a missions and mining, with all exploration skills. 2. It's should be win-win, so the player i've invited will recieve a proffit without me losing mine. 3. There should be some heavy skills. So if i'll train them all, there will be a reason to invite someone. Overwise everyone will do it solo and won't give a damn about joining with someone skilled. in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much? [-á-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦] -£-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦ -¦-+-Ç-+-+-Ç-¦-å-+-Å Transtellar |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3322
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:38:00 -
[260] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Why make exploration even more random than it currently is? Not only do you have to get a good drop, but now you have to get lucky and grab the right cans too?
I am prepared to give the devs the benefit of the doubt here. My concerns are that people who have poor hand-eye coordination (such as me, with my DUST514 k/d ratio of about 0/30, and usually losing due to running out of clones) will suffer from these changes. CCP Bayesian has promised that they are trying to remove the "twitch" element from this mini game.
In terms of expected income I can see many pilots getting upset about the cans they didn't get, rather than excited about the cans they did get. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy: you expect to get less loot, so you end up capturing fewer cans. I would highly recommend keeping records of what loot you score from every exploration site you run, this way you won't fall victim to selection bias or false memory.
Now can anyone tell me where to find these presentations on Twitch.tv? I come up empty looking for ccpgames, and there are far to many results for EVE Online :/ Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
|
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
78
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:39:00 -
[261] - Quote
This isn't rewarding people who bring a friend, it's rewarding people with alts. Splitting isk with someone else is always a distasteful prospect for EVE players, and even losing personal profits as compared to doing it solo (you might both try to click on the same can, not as many slow-flying cans that are easy to grab) is just bad design. Even if you only manage to loot 50% as fast on your second account, that's still far greater isk/hr than looting at 75-90% of what you could do solo if you bring along a friend.
Given that most people are greedy and are all looking at that profit margin, I fail to see how this system does anything than force a gimmick clickfest minigame between several accounts/monitors |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction Transmission Lost
402
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:40:00 -
[262] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Vincent Gaines wrote:This is 11 pages and I haven't caught everything, but can someone explain the purpose of the loot just spilling and floating away? It makes zero sense. The purpose is to provide interaction through reaching out and touching, just like CCP Soundwave told us in his presentation about game design principles. So rather than sit there with modules cycling so we can simply open a can and take the loot, we are presented with a puzzle to solve: where do you sit yourself so that you can collect the greatest number of cans? If you have two people you theoretically double your chances since you can cover twice as much space. This is how teamwork/alts will be rewarded. It is like placing fielders in a game of cricket or baseball.
I swear there's a game on Facebook where the object of the game is to grab as many shiny things as possible in a limited amount of time.
And before the internet, or hell before the PC, I used to play jacks. None of these really seem to tie into exploration.
I do feel this is a step in the right direction. The only thing I have a question on is the way in which the rewards are presented. Is this really the best way that was devised? Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
Mariner6
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
148
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:44:00 -
[263] - Quote
Reluctant to even participate in this discussion as so much is speculation but I certainly have to wonder about a few things:
1) What will make a null sec sites > low sec sites > high sec sites both harder and more rewarding? Obviously I understand that just being in null/low is more dangerous due to other players but by removing rats then any covops or T3 interdicted-nullified ships will just do any of these sites easily now. The difficulty of rats before made running these sites in a solo scanning ship by itself impossible in lower security systems. That seems all gone now. So while the loot rewards should scale as they do now in lower sec status systems how does that balance with difficulty to complete the site as it doesn't require the player to have higher skills (ie in a better ship/ships) to deal with the rats? There is just something with this that seems...well not quite right. Seems unbalanced.
2) So that said, is it then the mini-game that's harder in low sec and really hard in null sec? That sounds a bit....meh. Plus if your encouraging group play...only one person can participate in the mini game?....the rest sit around and wait for you to finish the game...well that's boring. Yes I know they have other chores like looking out for enemy pilots but...they'll have to be sitting at the site to help grab cans so they are just sitting their scanning...so....they can' even be sitting in other systems watching gates or something. So their SOLE purpose of coming along is to grab cans and PvP as required I guess?
3) Where is the progression? So if stuff in null sec can be done with a fairly low skilled covops character how do player benefit from investing in skill points and better ships to run harder sites? Null sec is surprisingly empty and safe but people flying their combat ships to complete the sites currently make for at least some fun opportunities. Now all there is a covops to run the sites? Bleh. It all seems way to easy. And frankly, making a hard mini-game sounds equally annoying.
Will certainly wait and see, hopefully all this will be addressed in the dev blog. |
|
CCP Bayesian
647
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:44:00 -
[264] - Quote
Mara Rinn, something like kill mails but for exploration is something we talked about. Ditto for mining operations. Information that you can directly compare with your past performance and other peoples performance. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1788
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:45:00 -
[265] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Vincent Gaines wrote:This is 11 pages and I haven't caught everything, but can someone explain the purpose of the loot just spilling and floating away? It makes zero sense. The purpose is to provide interaction through reaching out and touching, just like CCP Soundwave told us in his presentation about game design principles. So rather than sit there with modules cycling so we can simply open a can and take the loot, we are presented with a puzzle to solve: where do you sit yourself so that you can collect the greatest number of cans? If you have two people you theoretically double your chances since you can cover twice as much space. This is how teamwork/alts will be rewarded. It is like placing fielders in a game of cricket or baseball. I swear there's a game on Facebook where the object of the game is to grab as many shiny things as possible in a limited amount of time. And before the internet, or hell before the PC, I used to play jacks. None of these really seem to tie into exploration. I do feel this is a step in the right direction. The only thing I have a question on is the way in which the rewards are presented. Is this really the best way that was devised? We can always try and figure out something better. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Fereval Kondur
Brave Newbies Inc.
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:46:00 -
[266] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:[quote=Michael Harari] Now can anyone tell me where to find these presentations on Twitch.tv? I come up empty looking for ccpgames, and there are far to many results for EVE Online :/ The EVE Keynote. (The exploration concrete part can starts near the 1 hour mark.)
|
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:47:00 -
[267] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Vincent Gaines wrote:This is 11 pages and I haven't caught everything, but can someone explain the purpose of the loot just spilling and floating away? It makes zero sense. The purpose is to provide interaction through reaching out and touching, just like CCP Soundwave told us in his presentation about game design principles. So rather than sit there with modules cycling so we can simply open a can and take the loot, we are presented with a puzzle to solve: where do you sit yourself so that you can collect the greatest number of cans? If you have two people you theoretically double your chances since you can cover twice as much space. This is how teamwork/alts will be rewarded. It is like placing fielders in a game of cricket or baseball.
As it is it's already annoying to navigate around collidable objects and hope to be able to align out in time when someone warps in... (I'm looking at you, hollow asteroid). Exploration is challenging enough as it is in hostile space. Sites already despawn if you are forced out after activating a module on a can.
To present this new mechanic as a novel opportunity for emergent ganking is rather silly, exploration sites are already camped at present (I should know because I tend to do that).
While I can imagine that exploration must be absurdly boring in high sec, I figured the basic premise here was that explorers by their very nature will venture beyond the safety of empire space, where you would need no mini-game to be entertained as there are more elements at play than just you, your hacking skill and a floating can. |
Lost True
Paradise project
2124
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:49:00 -
[268] - Quote
Destoya wrote:This isn't rewarding people who bring a friend, it's rewarding people with alts. Splitting isk with someone else is always a distasteful prospect for EVE players, and even losing personal profits as compared to doing it solo (you might both try to click on the same can, not as many slow-flying cans that are easy to grab) is just bad design. Even if you only manage to loot 50% as fast on your second account, that's still far greater isk/hr than looting at 75-90% of what you could do solo if you bring along a friend.
Given that most people are greedy and are all looking at that profit margin, I fail to see how this system does anything than force a gimmick clickfest minigame between several accounts/monitors Alts? I think the good thing about it is that it's hard to do it with alts...
I think it's a very healthy way to encourage the group play: when you can do it solo, and you're not losing anything by inviting someone else who just a good guy... Then why not to do it? Even for free... Or, if you want, for asking this person to do something for you in his "profession". in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much? [-á-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦] -£-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦ -¦-+-Ç-+-+-Ç-¦-å-+-Å Transtellar |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction Transmission Lost
402
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:50:00 -
[269] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Mara Rinn, something like kill mails but for exploration is something we talked about. Ditto for mining operations. Information that you can directly compare with your past performance and other peoples performance.
I'd like to see logi on killmails before anything else. Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction Transmission Lost
402
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:52:00 -
[270] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: We can always try and figure out something better.
I wonder if there's a thread in F&I.
Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 .. 19 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |