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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13929
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 18:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Have you read what is being said about the new system? Yes. Have you?
Quote:If you team up it is not certain you will get more, there is just the potential GǪjust like how, if you solo, it's not certain that you will get anything, there's just the potential. The difference is that now, more people doesn't automatically mean less for everyone.
Quote:And will the new system prevent vulturing? Of course not. At best, you are allowed to prevent it, but it seems designed to not have the game do any work for you. Not that it matters: you get what you can pick, he gets what he can pick, and you won't necessarily be taking anything from each other. Sure, he could probably bump you out of the way to get first dibs, but hey, then you can do the sameGǪ
More gameplay for everyone GÇö it's a huge improvement in pretty much every way. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1329
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 18:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
More gameplay for everyone GÇö it's a huge improvement in pretty much every way.
Except for those who are color blind or not so quick with mouse movements.
[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=206023&find=unread[/url] |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
93
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 18:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:baltec1 wrote:So you need pals in a multiplayer game to get the best out of it.
Whoda thunk it? Whoda Thunk it? All the cracked human beings that come into a multiplayer game to play it like it's single player, thats who thunk it. CCP is been catering to these people for so long, even the slightest change that requires cooperation just kills them. notice none of the people complaioning about the new data and relic sites are from anywhere but high sec. I don't know if y'all remember, but some of the same people were complaining about the lack of solo content when INCURSIONS were announced. You can't please most of these 'live on a mountain alone" hermits.
notice none of the people complaioning about the new data and relic sites are from anywhere but high sec.??
Thats incorrect Jenn - the OP lives in lo sec
You are either using your standard script ( again) or you have posted in the wrong thread.
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Trendon Evenstar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
176
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 18:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Organized players cooperating in a group should always gain greater rewards than the solo player. Making sure everyone gets rewarded no matter what is WoW style game design. No thanks |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
93
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 19:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:I actually dig the limitations of soloing. Figuring out what I can manage on my own is a challenge I really enjoy.
And that means no alts, proper hardcore limit setter play.
I enjoy being everyones target in a new system - eventually you get some neutrals and blues if you stick around. But teaming up and getting into Alliances ? I don't need another job and as another just said, it avoids the drama.
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Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
126
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 19:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:I actually dig the limitations of soloing. Figuring out what I can manage on my own is a challenge I really enjoy.
And that means no alts, proper hardcore limit setter play. I enjoy being everyones target in a new system - eventually you get some neutrals and blues if you stick around. But teaming up and getting into Alliances ? I don't need another job and as another just said, it avoids the drama.
yeah I don't have much interest in that either. I do want to get it on roams once I've got my bomber skill plan done but there are player organised events for casual pew pew, no need to join a corp. PvE I'd rather grind on my own when I'm bored. freelance space bum |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
93
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 19:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Trendon Evenstar wrote:Organized players cooperating in a group should always gain greater rewards than the solo player. Making sure everyone gets rewarded no matter what is WoW style game design. No thanks
That makes sense - agreed.
but "Man is born free but everywhere lives in chains"
My OP was to point out an undercurrent I feel in the game , that the individual is being written out - not a complaint about specific game play.
As far as a part time play-hobby goes "Organised players cooperating in a group* sounds like my idea of hell.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4774
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 19:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
People don't seem to get that you'll get the same income doing the sites solo as you will doing them in a group. Which is why you should do them in a group so that more people get income. |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
93
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 19:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Trendon Evenstar wrote:Organized players cooperating in a group should always gain greater rewards than the solo player. Making sure everyone gets rewarded no matter what is WoW style game design. No thanks
The other point I would like to make is that I'm really glad there are big alliances, teams and social interaction in Eve.
Very happy for you to do it your way, but I feel you have too much influence and CCP won't listen to the little fellas.... |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1668
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 20:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:Trendon Evenstar wrote:Organized players cooperating in a group should always gain greater rewards than the solo player. Making sure everyone gets rewarded no matter what is WoW style game design. No thanks That makes sense - agreed. but "Man is born free but everywhere lives in chains" My OP was to point out an undercurrent I feel in the game , that the individual is being written out - not a complaint about specific game play. As far as a part time play-hobby goes "Organised players cooperating in a group* sounds like my idea of hell.
Which means the problem is you and not the MMO you are playing. You chose the wrong hobby. Theere is no individuality without responsibility and you're the only one responsible for your wrong choice.
Good MMOs are ones that might "allow" solo play but that generally encourages group interaction (both cooperation and conflict). EVE is becoming a better multiplayer game with the new relic and data sites.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1668
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 20:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:Trendon Evenstar wrote:Organized players cooperating in a group should always gain greater rewards than the solo player. Making sure everyone gets rewarded no matter what is WoW style game design. No thanks The other point I would like to make is that I'm really glad there are big alliances, teams and social interaction in Eve. Very happy for you to do it your way, but I feel you have too much influence and CCP won't listen to the little fellas....
A lot of times I play "solo" doing lvl 5 missions with 2 toons in low sec, doing anoms by myself in null, running the odd high sec mission or (VERY rarely) trying my hand with some solo pvp with a cruiser just for kicks (I made a toon just for that, 12 kills 35 losses so far, good thing cruisers are still cheap lol).
But I still understand I'm playing an MMO, not a single player game. That means people will screw with me AND the game makers aren't really going to support me going it alone all the time. Unlie you I don't tend to think that the game maker should somehow cater to what I want. They should do whats best for them and the game, and we as players should be asking ourselves if we want to continue enjoying the privilage (not right) of playing the game they provide.
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Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
257
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 20:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
The way I saw it is - you can still solo it, but you aren't punished if you bring friends like now. I.e., a perfect mmo system. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
249
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Right now, if you solo, you get all the reward for your work; if you team up, you get less.
Actually you are wrong on that one. Allow me to explain : The profit in exploration depends mostly on the amount of sites you run. Common knowledge for anyone, who knows anything about exploration system in EVE.
Having more people scanning == more sites found, less risk of hitting dry spots ( happening quite often for solo explores ) More people running site == MUCH less time spent in a site == less risk taken and ability to run more sites in the same time frame More sites finished == more draws from RNG == bigger profit in the end ( usually much bigger )
Exploration is way more profitable when done in an team ( in low and null at least ). While working with my three mates on our exploration runs I'm making about 30%-40% more when compared to my solo runs, which are additionally a lot riskier.
I ask that you do not perpetuate this silly myth about team work being punished ( by lessening the profits ) any longer.
As for the OP : We know close to nothing about the new system as it's still WiP and we only saw a tiny glimpse of it so no conclusions can be drawn at this time. Just wait for some usable version on the test server. |
Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
76
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
MMo didnt come out of the idea of a large group of people getting together to fulfill a goal, it came out fo the Facebook Genration as a place to socialize, and while you're chatting up, we'll give you some mundane repetivive tasks to do...it's about socialization not interaction (ie chat).
Most of us who come to an MMO to lay solo come to play against everyone, not with everyone. I don't play well with others, the drama and ego's of so-called leaders in nearly every MMO is outstandingly horrific. I didnt join Eve o be some CEO slave account. I play solo, but I still interact. I fully understand anyone can and has ruined my day at any gien time. Playing against NPC's can et boring, they just dont change tactics. Once you learn how to survive, it's all easy peasy...but rl payers, they always change it up, something new to dal with every time...Thats why I play solo in an MMO, to play agaisnt everyone, not with them. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13934
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:10:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:Having more people scanning == more sites found, less risk of hitting dry spots ( happening quite often for solo explores ) More people running site == MUCH less time spent in a site == less risk taken and ability to run more sites in the same time frame More sites finished == more draws from RNG == bigger profit in the end ( usually much bigger ) GǪand the point is that all of those draws are solo. All you're doing is taking solo and doing it in parallel GÇö you're not really exploring as a team. Each participants hits a dry spot just as often as before (even more often if you run in close proximity, which you'll have to do if you want to make any claim about actually teaming up). Every site gives x loot; x loot multiplied by n people creating it divided by n people sharing it means you're right back at x. Whether or not you find more sites doesn't matter because it cancels itself out.
The new system means that you can throw more people at the site and earn more money that way, on top of getting more sites. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
95
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Zen Dad wrote:Trendon Evenstar wrote:Organized players cooperating in a group should always gain greater rewards than the solo player. Making sure everyone gets rewarded no matter what is WoW style game design. No thanks The other point I would like to make is that I'm really glad there are big alliances, teams and social interaction in Eve. Very happy for you to do it your way, but I feel you have too much influence and CCP won't listen to the little fellas.... A lot of times I play "solo" doing lvl 5 missions with 2 toons in low sec, doing anoms by myself in null, running the odd high sec mission or (VERY rarely) trying my hand with some solo pvp with a cruiser just for kicks (I made a toon just for that, 12 kills 35 losses so far, good thing cruisers are still cheap lol). But I still understand I'm playing an MMO, not a single player game. That means people will screw with me AND the game makers aren't really going to support me going it alone all the time. Unlie you I don't tend to think that the game maker should somehow cater to what I want. They should do whats best for them and the game, and we as players should be asking ourselves if we want to continue enjoying the privilage (not right) of playing the game they provide.
If you reverse that kill ratio & went cloaky in a Pilgrim you would get the rush I get when I get to murder someone in a radar site who's stealing MY loot. :-)
it can only feel like that in a MMO and you wouldn't find me in a single player game.
So I wish to preserve an area of the game that was always and still is ADVERTISED by CCP as a solo profession.
Rather than wait until it comes out, Id rather register may view at an early stage - if I am wrong I will post a confession
The title of my post may seem extravagant - but it draws attention to the fact that 'encouraging team play' from my perspective is Big Brother 'double speak' for kill off solo. |
Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
76
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Zen Dad wrote:Trendon Evenstar wrote:Organized players cooperating in a group should always gain greater rewards than the solo player. Making sure everyone gets rewarded no matter what is WoW style game design. No thanks The other point I would like to make is that I'm really glad there are big alliances, teams and social interaction in Eve. Very happy for you to do it your way, but I feel you have too much influence and CCP won't listen to the little fellas.... A lot of times I play "solo" doing lvl 5 missions with 2 toons in low sec, doing anoms by myself in null, running the odd high sec mission or (VERY rarely) trying my hand with some solo pvp with a cruiser just for kicks (I made a toon just for that, 12 kills 35 losses so far, good thing cruisers are still cheap lol). But I still understand I'm playing an MMO, not a single player game. That means people will screw with me AND the game makers aren't really going to support me going it alone all the time. Unlie you I don't tend to think that the game maker should somehow cater to what I want. They should do whats best for them and the game, and we as players should be asking ourselves if we want to continue enjoying the privilage (not right) of playing the game they provide. If you reverse that kill ratio & went cloaky in a Pilgrim you would get the rush I get when I get to murder someone in a radar site who's stealing MY loot. :-) it can only feel like that in a MMO and you wouldn't find me in a single player game. So I wish to preserve an area of the game that was always and still is ADVERTISED by CCP as a solo profession. Rather than wait until it comes out, Id rather register may view at an early stage - if I am wrong I will post a confession The title of my post may seem extravagant - but it draws attention to the fact that 'encouraging team play' from my perspective is Big Brother 'double speak' for kill off solo.
If CCP was nef'ing already existing exploration to move people into the new one, I would agree, but they aren't. They added content for group play and the solo exploration still stands. dding options for a varety of playing styles isn't a plot, it's just good gaming. We can still solo explore...and, in fact, i beleive this will actually help solo explorers. There are already ALOT of people doing exploration. Finding good sites gets harder and harder. By taking a sizable chunk of them and getting them to group up on these new sites gets less people out the solo exploration pool...more sites for us, mwhahahaha. |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
95
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:Tippia wrote: Right now, if you solo, you get all the reward for your work; if you team up, you get less.
Actually you are wrong on that one. Allow me to explain : The profit in exploration depends mostly on the amount of sites you run. Common knowledge for anyone, who knows anything about exploration system in EVE. Having more people scanning == more sites found, less risk of hitting dry spots ( happening quite often for solo explores ) More people running site == MUCH less time spent in a site == less risk taken and ability to run more sites in the same time frame More sites finished == more draws from RNG == bigger profit in the end ( usually much bigger ) Exploration is way more profitable when done in an team ( in low and null at least ). While working with my three mates on our exploration runs I'm making about 30%-40% more when compared to my solo runs, which are additionally a lot riskier. I ask that you do not perpetuate this silly myth about team work being punished ( by lessening the profits ) any longer. As for the OP : We know close to nothing about the new system as it's still WiP and we only saw a tiny glimpse of it so no conclusions can be drawn at this time. Just wait for some usable version on the test server.
Agreed, we know little of the details but the intentions to are clear to me - less room for solo - possibly....
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Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
249
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand the point is that all of those draws are solo. All you're doing is taking solo and doing it in parallel GÇö you're not really exploring as a team.
Eh, no.
Four people + two scanning alts. In most cases four of us run the same site, we split very rarely ( only case is when we find two easier sites at the same time ). Scanners are moved so that the travel time is minimized. All ships are fitted so that they work optimally in a group by supplementing each other in a specific space. That's actually a good example of team work in EVE's reality.
Tippia wrote: The new system means that you can throw more people at the site and earn more money that way, on top of getting more sites.
In the beginning sure. After a while - no. You are not getting money, you are getting stuff ( invention, salvage in this case ). More stuff drops =/= more money in the long run. You know this to be true.
In the end I don't care about profession sites and that's not the reason why I was addressing you. Anyone, who wants to profit from exploration knows that profession sites are a waste of time when compared to combat sites and those sites are ideally done in team. That was my point. |
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
149
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
Trendon Evenstar wrote:Organized players cooperating in a group should always gain greater rewards than the solo player. Making sure everyone gets rewarded no matter what is WoW style game design. No thanks
It should...if the mechanics allow it, everything else being equal.
1 player camping a gate catches 10% of people coming through. 2 players camping a gate on each side catch 30% of people coming through.
Synergy from group work means that in cooperation they get a greater share working together if everything is equal BUT this should not work in every scenario, ie, someone camping a gate solo in a billion isk instalock loki should not automatically catch less people that 2 newbs in velators each side just because the newbs decide to work together.
Automatically saying, groups "should always" win more, is entitlement speak. The example was extreme to make a point not literally every solo work is done in a loki and group work is done in velators OBVIOUSLY, before anyone starts.
A more real world example is I sometimes have fought two ships at once solo by jamming one out and fighting the one, then switch to the jammed out guy when the first explodes, so now how will you make sure the group is more rewarded is that, like have the game recognize that its a 2 on 1 and buff their stats of the fleeted guys with a magic wand? no thanks. |
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Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
95
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Reuben Johnson wrote:MMO's didnt come out of the idea of a large group of people getting together to fulfill a goal, it came out fo the Facebook Genration as a place to socialize, and while you're chatting up, we'll give you some mundane repetitive tasks to do...it's about socialization not interaction (ie chat).
Most of us who come to an MMO to play solo come to play against everyone, not with everyone. I don't play well with others, the drama and ego's of so-called leaders in nearly every MMO is outstandingly horrific. I didnt join Eve to be some CEO's slave account. I play solo, but I still interact. I fully understand anyone can and has ruined my day at any given time. Playing against NPC's can get boring, they just dont change tactics. Once you learn how to survive, it's all easy peasy...but rl payers, they always change it up, something new to deal with every time...Thats why I play solo in an MMO, to play against everyone, not with them.
Yep, Its horses for courses. I agree with you and enjoy EVE that way too. Roaming around free without this ownership of space thing going on. The game exposes most peoples need to have somewhere to call home and snuggle up with friends when there's danger.
Me on the other hand, Im a terrifyingly brave but mad axe murderer who springs unexpectedly on his victim and hacks him to death in lo sec - well actually Im a pretty dull quiet bloke, but then thanks to EVE I get to live the fantasy. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13936
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:Four people + two scanning alts. In most cases four of us run the same site, we split very rarely ( only case is when we find two easier sites at the same time ). GǪand what this still means is that all the income is split four ways GÇö the same as if you were running solo. The rewards are completely exclusive: if one character gets something from a site, the others are left without it. The bonus from actually being four players is nil GÇö the only added profit comes from the fact that two of GÇ£the teamGÇ¥ don't require a take, and that's a function of using alts, not of running the sites as a team.
With the new system, every additional team member in a site (up to the limit of what the site will spit out, but we can only speculate where that limit is) will mean the team as a whole earns more. Instead of finding two sites with those alts, running with four people and getting -+ a site's worth of goodies each (50% less than if you were soloing and getting 1:1), you will find two sites in the same time period, run them with four people and get two sites worth of goodies each (100% more than if you were soloing and getting 1:1). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
95
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:54:00 -
[53] - Quote
Reuben Johnson wrote:Zen Dad wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Zen Dad wrote:Trendon Evenstar wrote:Organized players cooperating in a group should always gain greater rewards than the solo player. Making sure everyone gets rewarded no matter what is WoW style game design. No thanks The other point I would like to make is that I'm really glad there are big alliances, teams and social interaction in Eve. Very happy for you to do it your way, but I feel you have too much influence and CCP won't listen to the little fellas.... A lot of times I play "solo" doing lvl 5 missions with 2 toons in low sec, doing anoms by myself in null, running the odd high sec mission or (VERY rarely) trying my hand with some solo pvp with a cruiser just for kicks (I made a toon just for that, 12 kills 35 losses so far, good thing cruisers are still cheap lol). But I still understand I'm playing an MMO, not a single player game. That means people will screw with me AND the game makers aren't really going to support me going it alone all the time. Unlie you I don't tend to think that the game maker should somehow cater to what I want. They should do whats best for them and the game, and we as players should be asking ourselves if we want to continue enjoying the privilage (not right) of playing the game they provide. If you reverse that kill ratio & went cloaky in a Pilgrim you would get the rush I get when I get to murder someone in a radar site who's stealing MY loot. :-) it can only feel like that in a MMO and you wouldn't find me in a single player game. So I wish to preserve an area of the game that was always and still is ADVERTISED by CCP as a solo profession. Rather than wait until it comes out, Id rather register may view at an early stage - if I am wrong I will post a confession The title of my post may seem extravagant - but it draws attention to the fact that 'encouraging team play' from my perspective is Big Brother 'double speak' for kill off solo. If CCP was nef'ing already existing exploration to move people into the new one, I would agree, but they aren't. They added content for group play and the solo exploration still stands. dding options for a varety of playing styles isn't a plot, it's just good gaming. We can still solo explore...and, in fact, i beleive this will actually help solo explorers. There are already ALOT of people doing exploration. Finding good sites gets harder and harder. By taking a sizable chunk of them and getting them to group up on these new sites means less people out doing the solo exploration pool...more sites for us solo guys, mwhahahaha.
That is a possibility - and of course more people exploring means more solo PVP if you happen to fall out over ownership of some loot - if you get my drift. i like it as it is - the reports of the new hacking technique seem to suggest its for kids with short attention spans. We shall see.
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1274
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 21:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:So you need pals in a multiplayer game to get the best out of it.
Whoda thunk it?
Yeah, splitting loot among multiple people is WAY better than keeping all that nasty isk yourself... Besides, the world has PROVEN over and over again how socialism and state welfare REALLY does work better than any other system. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
78
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 22:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:Reuben Johnson wrote:MMO's didnt come out of the idea of a large group of people getting together to fulfill a goal, it came out fo the Facebook Genration as a place to socialize, and while you're chatting up, we'll give you some mundane repetitive tasks to do...it's about socialization not interaction (ie chat).
Most of us who come to an MMO to play solo come to play against everyone, not with everyone. I don't play well with others, the drama and ego's of so-called leaders in nearly every MMO is outstandingly horrific. I didnt join Eve to be some CEO's slave account. I play solo, but I still interact. I fully understand anyone can and has ruined my day at any given time. Playing against NPC's can get boring, they just dont change tactics. Once you learn how to survive, it's all easy peasy...but rl payers, they always change it up, something new to deal with every time...Thats why I play solo in an MMO, to play against everyone, not with them. Yep, Its horses for courses. I agree with you and enjoy EVE that way too. Roaming around free without this ownership of space thing going on. The game exposes most peoples need to have somewhere to call home and snuggle up with friends when there's danger. Me on the other hand, Im a terrifyingly brave but mad axe murderer who springs unexpectedly on his victim and hacks him to death in lo sec - well actually Im a pretty dull quiet bloke, but then thanks to EVE I get to live the fantasy. Oh, so YOU'RE the one that ruined my day!!? Damn you, damn you all to Hell! |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
95
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 22:07:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪand the point is that all of those draws are solo. All you're doing is taking solo and doing it in parallel GÇö you're not really exploring as a team. Eh, no. Four people + two scanning alts. In most cases four of us run the same site, we split very rarely ( only case is when we find two easier sites at the same time ). Scanners are moved so that the travel time is minimized. All ships are fitted so that they work optimally in a group by supplementing each other in a specific space. That's actually a good example of team work in EVE's reality. Tippia wrote: The new system means that you can throw more people at the site and earn more money that way, on top of getting more sites.
In the beginning sure. After a while - no. You are not getting money, you are getting stuff ( invention, salvage in this case ). More stuff drops =/= more money in the long run. You know this to be true. In the end I don't care about profession sites and that's not the reason why I was addressing you. Anyone, who wants to profit from exploration knows that profession sites are a waste of time when compared to combat sites and those sites are ideally done in team. That was my point.
"Anyone, who wants to profit from exploration knows that profession sites are a waste of time when compared to combat sites and those sites are ideally done in team."
This is what gets my goat - there are better sites for exploration already and I dont go there because you need a team nor do i expect to go there. So why encourage teams into the few areas where solo can make a living?
Once again its for the benefit of the workers collective over the individual
So lets have the odd 5/10 6/10 that can be run by a cloaky solo drone boat with nice loot please....ok that is a joke and Im not being serious. |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
95
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 22:15:00 -
[57] - Quote
Reuben Johnson wrote:Zen Dad wrote:Reuben Johnson wrote:MMO's didnt come out of the idea of a large group of people getting together to fulfill a goal, it came out fo the Facebook Genration as a place to socialize, and while you're chatting up, we'll give you some mundane repetitive tasks to do...it's about socialization not interaction (ie chat).
Most of us who come to an MMO to play solo come to play against everyone, not with everyone. I don't play well with others, the drama and ego's of so-called leaders in nearly every MMO is outstandingly horrific. I didnt join Eve to be some CEO's slave account. I play solo, but I still interact. I fully understand anyone can and has ruined my day at any given time. Playing against NPC's can get boring, they just dont change tactics. Once you learn how to survive, it's all easy peasy...but rl payers, they always change it up, something new to deal with every time...Thats why I play solo in an MMO, to play against everyone, not with them. Yep, Its horses for courses. I agree with you and enjoy EVE that way too. Roaming around free without this ownership of space thing going on. The game exposes most peoples need to have somewhere to call home and snuggle up with friends when there's danger. Me on the other hand, Im a terrifyingly brave but mad axe murderer who springs unexpectedly on his victim and hacks him to death in lo sec - well actually Im a pretty dull quiet bloke, but then thanks to EVE I get to live the fantasy. Oh, so YOU'RE the one that ruined my day!!? Damn you, damn you all to Hell!
Its the best fun you can have with your pants on Reuben!
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Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
249
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Posted - 2013.04.29 14:19:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand what this still means is that all the income is split four ways
Yes. Is there something wrong with that picture?
Tippia wrote: The rewards are completely exclusive: if one character gets something from a site, the others are left without it.
So first it's being split ( correct conclusion ) and now its exclusive? I'm sure there's some logic here somewhere but frankly I can't see it.
Tippia wrote: The bonus from actually being four players is nil
So, I guess that means that working as a team in wormholes also have no benefits then? And before you say that exploration and wormholes are different things : They only differ in package.The underlying system is one and the same.
I already pointed out the benefits of team work in exploration ( exactly the same are true for wormholes by the way ). One thing deserves additional explanation : because of team work you can greatly reduce time spent in sites because you are capable of using the most optimal ships. You cant do the same with alts effectively and when you are really solo you need a ship, which can scan, tank and deal enough dps. You are severely penalized even when using the best ships for the job ( Tengu or cruiser sized drone boats ) when compared to dedicated team flying specialized ships ( as it should be ). Penalty is not in the loot itself, it's not expressed in absolute values it's way more discrete. Basically it increases time investment, effort and risk.
In the end it translates to big increase in profitability and that's a fact, which is a result of nearly two years of my experience. Of course you are entitled to your opinion even if it's based on strange assumptions combined with theory crafting instead of being a result of practical application. We'll just stick to our practical approach, you can stick to yours "...if you team up, you get less" theory. Ultimately we do benefit when less people are doing it as effectively as it can be done. Less loot on the market == more iskies for us
Tippia wrote: With the new system, every additional team member in a site (up to the limit of what the site will spit out, but we can only speculate where that limit is) will mean the team as a whole earns more.
If that's how the new system will work ( and that's a big 'if' ) then as I said before it will let you earn more in the very beginning ( just like Crucible's improved mag sites did for a while ) but soon after it will stop being as profitable because you are not getting isk injections, instead you get invention and salvage stuff. Introduction of capital rigs *might* be enough to keep T2 salvage prices on acceptable levels even with greatly increased supply but I can't see anything making invention stuff keeping it's value when market is flooded with those things. Everyone knows that if there is not enough in terms of profitability most people will not do it, they will stick to their missions, anoms, FW and other easily predictable sources of income.
In the end, it's a barren discussion. We don't know enough about this new system to draw sensible conclusions. |
baltec1
Bat Country
6153
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Posted - 2013.04.29 14:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Why are people mistaking greed with soloable content? |
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