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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Lallante
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
252
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Posted - 2013.04.29 12:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
- [EVR] is the game [Oculus Rift] was made for - IGN
EVR, for those of you living under some kind of awesomenes-supressing rock, is an incredible concept dogfighting game using Eve's assets in which you get to fly as a Templar, an amarr fighter used by carriers in crazy 6v6 rumbles amoung asteroid fields. The twist? It uses Oculus Rift, the immersive VR headset recently kick-started and to which CCP was a significant doner.
Several games journalists and many players got the opportunity to try it out at Fanfest, to unniversal (and in many cases unexpected) acclaim.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/28/evr-oculus-rifts-space-dogfighting-game
This thread is a petition to CCP to run a kickstarter campaign to fund fulltime development of the already playable game with a view to integrating it somehow into Eve, even if it is just a sideshow.
Why Kickstarter? CCP almost certainly has the revenues and cashflow to fund development on balance sheet already, so why crowd-source funding for this?
1. Player investment. What campaigns like the epicly successful Star Citizen or Planetary Annihilation have shown is that a properly run kickstarter campaign can create a legion of drooling, dedicated, hardcore fans. Its not about the money its about making players feel personally invested in development of the game.
2. Advertising. Many games media outlets have covered EVR as a result of fanfest. MANY more will do so if a kickstarter campaign went live.
3. Bring new players to Eve and Dust. The market for a VR dogfighting game is hardly limited to existing Eve and Dust players. Players will come for the dogfights and one day get curious about what its like to pilot the megolithic Archon their fighter launches from. This can be massively enhanced with the donor band freebies - donations of $80 and over get a plex? donations of $200 and over get a skinned ship or dropsuit? The possibilities are endless and cross promotion fantastic.
4. Big Headstart on the Oculus Rift platform - CCP has a huge huge headstart with its pre-existing art assets, fanbase and IP together with its early investment/donation to Oculus Rift developers. There is a real opportunity here to be one of the first to launch a fully functional game, and with less development risk than other studios due to the existing Dust and Eve audiences who will doubtless buy the game regardless of early flaws or limited feature set in the confidence that CCP will iterate as it has on those games.
5. Dedicated funding means no tough management decisions / fights over internal funding - the devs who want to work on this prototype will no longer have to beg steal and borrow development resources earmarked for CCP's other products if they have a budget that is legitimately just theirs.
So there you have it CCP. It might not seem necessary to kickstart this project. You may prefer to leave it a "spare time" project for the small team working on it right now. But in reality you have an incredible opportunity to dedicate a mere couple of months time for a team of, say, 10, and create a really kick ass game you can then sell at the ~$15-20 price point and will really add to the Eve "many games one universe" mantra. |
Lallante
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
255
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Posted - 2013.04.29 13:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Some more reviews: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/04/28/eve-evolved-hands-on-with-eves-virtual-reality-demo/ http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/eve-online-devs-debut-beautiful-first-person-space-dogfighting-title-for-oc |
Tyrendian Biohazard
Terra Rosa Academy
27
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Posted - 2013.04.29 13:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Is it cool? Yes.
Could it change games? Yes.
Does it belong in Eve? Ehhhhhhh.......I don't know.
The thought is nice, but I think it might detract from other roles to be played in the battle, or worse, people just outright refuse to participate because they can't be in a fighter. Think of all the people in the old battlefield games that stood next to the air field, waiting for a plane to pop, just to take off and crash it into the nearest tank. Then repeating that over, and over, and over.
Then what happens if there is a shortage of pilots, do AI control the rest? What happens when a player piloted carrier comes across one that is using AI fighters, or a mix. We can definitely say that the AI in Eve isn't much beyond target, lock, shoot, with a few mixed in module activations thrown in here and there.
Like I said, concept is cool, the thought is nice, but I don't see it being practical without a lot of consideration of all aspects. My twitch stream to help new players:
http://www.twitch.tv/biohazrd51 |
Lallante
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
257
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Posted - 2013.04.29 13:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tyrendian Biohazard wrote:Is it cool? Yes.
Could it change games? Yes.
Does it belong in Eve? Ehhhhhhh.......I don't know.
The thought is nice, but I think it might detract from other roles to be played in the battle, or worse, people just outright refuse to participate because they can't be in a fighter. Think of all the people in the old battlefield games that stood next to the air field, waiting for a plane to pop, just to take off and crash it into the nearest tank. Then repeating that over, and over, and over.
Then what happens if there is a shortage of pilots, do AI control the rest? What happens when a player piloted carrier comes across one that is using AI fighters, or a mix. We can definitely say that the AI in Eve isn't much beyond target, lock, shoot, with a few mixed in module activations thrown in here and there.
Like I said, concept is cool, the thought is nice, but I don't see it being practical without a lot of consideration of all aspects.
It doesnt have to be fully integrated into Eve battles (e.g. fighters launched from player piloted carriers), it could be entirely siloed gameplay with limited integration a la Dust 514, especially initially. This would also help with the engine/physics incompatability issues. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1339
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Posted - 2013.04.29 13:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
While it would be wonderful to fully include into Eve, I'd be more than happy playing it as a totally stand alone game, in the same universe.
NPC Faction vs Faction fights.
Join a faction, improve your rank within that faction, get better stuff. etc. Throw in some AI for coop play. ]
Sure, you not likely to have a large impact on New Eden, but there's only so much you can do from the cockpit of a fighter plane. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Lallante
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
261
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Posted - 2013.04.29 13:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:While it would be wonderful to fully include into Eve, I'd be more than happy playing it as a totally stand alone game, in the same universe.
NPC Faction vs Faction fights.
Join a faction, improve your rank within that faction, get better stuff. etc. Throw in some AI for coop play. ]
Sure, you not likely to have a large impact on New Eden, but there's only so much you can do from the cockpit of a fighter plane.
Initial integration could be WiS spectating/gambling on matches. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1341
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Posted - 2013.04.29 16:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
You could, I suspect, tie it into FW, just not directly.
Similar way to how Dust affects it. The carrier based clones can nibble at the other side. Assuming open war breaks out. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Major 'Revolver' Ocelot
GRU Special Forces
52
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Posted - 2013.04.29 16:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
I thought we were submerged in goo not sitting in a cockpit? Windows are structural weaknesses damn it! I love to reload during a battle!-áThere's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver missile into a well greased chamber... |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1341
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Posted - 2013.04.29 16:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Major 'Revolver' Ocelot wrote:I thought we were submerged in goo not sitting in a cockpit? Windows are structural weaknesses damn it!
When you're piloting something this fragile, it really doesn't matter ;)
This isn't how capsuleers fly their ships. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Lallante
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
269
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Posted - 2013.04.29 18:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Major 'Revolver' Ocelot wrote:I thought we were submerged in goo not sitting in a cockpit? Windows are structural weaknesses damn it! When you're piloting something this fragile, it really doesn't matter ;) This isn't how capsuleers fly their ships.
I guess its closer to how dust clones work.
One idea would be to bring the dogfighting into the near orbit atmosphere of a planet:
- Freestanding client (could continue using Unity engine) - Can see districts below and orbitting ships above but combat is in area between - Could be some debris fields, or if its slightly higher up, satellites, abandoned space stations etc to make for interesting obstacles. - Some kind of "Aerospace supremecy" meter that goes back and forth based on who is winning the fighter battle - If your team managed to hold the "supremecy" metre in your favour for a certain amount of time (say 5 minutes), "Airstrikes" become available in all battles in the districts on the planet below much like orbital strikes, but with a very different profile (maybe a long straffing run of lasers or a lock on missle attack or something) |
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
339
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Posted - 2013.04.29 19:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Definitely like the liminal space idea; allows it to have an impact without necessarily trying to shoehorn player-controlled ships into the EVE server.
My suspicion is that as time moves on, EVE will become increasingly multi-dimensional in how players interact with the universe -- and this sort of integration is going to be exactly how it's handled.
Still, sooner or later, it'd be -amazing- if this could be fully integrated with EVE. Imagine, for instance, that EVR pilots are able to pinpoint systems aboard EVE ships once the shields are down.
So-- vision of EVE Universe a decade from now: alliances are battling in nullsec. A heavy interdictor pins down a titan. Its shields fall to fire, and then fighters from a nearby carrier begin attacking its exposed weapons, enabling a boarding ship to clamp on. At this point, the dreadnought is locked down and a DUST boarding match is played, with an invader's victory condition being destruction of the pilot's pod. Onboard clones are activated to repel boarders, even as the titan's alliance tries to save the ship by rallying a new fleet before the DUST mercs can capture the titan.
As said, a decade from now.
But frig is it cool. |
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
118
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't want to endorse a kickstarter, there a number of problems with it (read the later part of my post).
I do want to encourage CCP to continue devlopment of EVR with an actual release in mind.
Why it HAS be done
- EVR is - as noted by press and players - awesome. The Oculus Rift was made for dogfighting.
- The existing IP works extremely well with the game.
- The existing artwork/models give CCP quite the headstart. Dogfighting around the rims/edges of a Nidhoggur or Hel? Awesome. Flying through the weird gaps of my beloved Apocalypse? Yaheeeee.
- If - at some point down the road - the game could be connected to Tranquility in some way ... Mind blown, obviously.
- Expanding the Eve-IP will always net more players for Eve Online (& Dust). They might just be tempted at some point to fly those awesomely huge cruisers that dwarf their tiny (yet awsome) fighters.
How I think it should be done
- Stand-alone, for obvious reasons. The complexity of connecting it to TQ initially is HUGE, and the particular solution non-obvious. Being a launch title for the Oculus Rift trumps that.
- Game Modes: FFA Dogfighting, Team Dogfighting (both random, and wing/clan based), Bombing Runs (either Escort/Bombers vs Interceptors, or mirror escort/bomber). IMHO, it should scale well with numbers. 16 vs 16 is a must, the more, the merrier.
- Battlefield: Environmental dangers should include: roids, ongoing space battle (flying into a cruise missile is BAD, as is being blasted by a cruiser sized AC turret).
- Complexity: Get them used to the CCP-way. Include interesting fitting choices & trade-offs. I am not against blatantly copying Eves/Dusts high/mid/low-slot fitting mechanics.
- Business Model: EVR should work well as a F2P game. I imagine a WoT/Dust type business model, though CCP should be a bit softer on the obvious extortion than wargaming (gold ammo). ;) For me, as long as the flying and fighting is fun and working well, I don't mind if I got the fanciest skins or most elusive fighter models, or have to grind a bit to get to the highest "tiers", as long as I am not penalized in any way for staying F2P (as far as the fight remaining a fair - and awesome - VRdogfight). I'd prefer if a subcribtion could get me most of what you can buy with "gold". Mind you, I ended up spending quite some cash on WoT, but never felt I had to.
- Multi-platform. Definitely including PC. Might as well add Mac compatibility (which usually mostly adds Linux via Wine). I don't know which console platform would support Oculus Rift - if some do... --> no-brainer.
Things to be aware of
- If a future connection to TQ is a goal - which it should be, as the upside is huge - it has to be kept in mind from the getgo. EVR players would have to get used to a universe that is cold & harsh. Loss has to be part of the game mechanics. Dust can serve as a model in many ways. Stuff (fitting & fighters) get bought in bulk but are LOST during the fight. You might even include capsules & implants that can be lost as well (as in eve, being more survivable). Obviously, there is always a zero-cost fallback (though you shouldnt need it, fighting should provide a stream of sufficient income). Model unlocks should be permanant, obvs, the lore background being something like a license/military type-rating.
- If a future connection to TQ is a goal - which it should be, as the upside is huge - one of the starting game modes should be adaptable for that connection. There are so many options, that I won't be so arrogant as to claim that I have already found a solution, but I do have two simple suggestions (doable vs future): (1) EVR players in EveOnline corps/alliances can contribute to the progress of faction warfare/nullsec-sovwarfare. Fairly simple to implement (more or less), could be all game modes. (1a) I suggest bombing runs on unlocked/timer-running/vulnerable iHubs/TCUs. (1b) Maybe EVR could put hubs/TCUs into vulnerable mode in some way, EveOnline players would need a way to undo this. (2) A truly awesome far-future option: EveOnline launched interdiction into an ongoing Dust-battle: Capsuleer launches fighters into a planets atmosphere where they can wreak havoc on a Dust battlefield (mind you, the Eve-connection is the launch, solely, connection with the DUST-battle server would be real, though). That would be another game mode, atmospheric flight/ground-attack. (3) I approve of gambling on EVR. (4) Other options come to mind, but I'll leave it here for now.
the troublesome part / to think about.
- Money isn't really the main issue for EVR development. One of the most pressing problems for CCP, I guess, isn't even the money but developing time. There isn't an endless supply of game developers in Reykjavik (or those willing to move there). So either (1) you canibalize on development time/ressources & manpower from Eve (booo) or (2) you have to outsource development or (3) use/found an offshore CCP office. There is a reason Dust wasn't developed in Iceland, and EVR would face similar issues.
- When using Kickstarter, you MUST communicate this clearly. The team is the big issue for any kickstarter campaign, so CCP would have to decide beforehand and communicate why its office in Decatur, Georgia or ... (California?) would be spearheading development and with which devs/team. Not easy for a (reasonably) small Icelandic company, that is sometimes perceived as a middleweight in the industry. You sort of walk the edge there. You arent perceived as an indy devloper, being given leeway. You arent a big publisher with multiple teams, one of which you can simply slot in when they have finished their last project.
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1542
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Major 'Revolver' Ocelot wrote:I thought we were submerged in goo not sitting in a cockpit? Windows are structural weaknesses damn it! Who said they were actual windows? Perhaps they're just conveniently-placed displays. A transparent, low-viscosity goo would be possible too. (Yeah, I know - But I just want to see this happen, and am willing to hand-wave like Boy Scout learning sempahore) Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
118
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
A true connection EVR with Eve Online is probably impossible. Eve's mechanics depend on the 1sec-tick (for huge battles), while the VRdogfighting would have to be smooth, high-ping, low-latencey, etc. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1542
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Karsa Egivand wrote:A true connection EVR with Eve Online is probably impossible. Eve's mechanics depend on the 1sec-tick (for huge battles), while the VRdogfighting would have to be smooth, high-ping, low-latencey, etc. Fair pint - A telling one.
Still want to see this go forward. The bones are there, they just need fleshing-out. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
118
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Major 'Revolver' Ocelot wrote:I thought we were submerged in goo not sitting in a cockpit? Windows are structural weaknesses damn it!
Simple solution. The piloteer would be the third kind of immortal. He cannot control as many systems as a capsuleer (nor in the same way), just as Dust bunnies cannot. "Piloteers" (please rename, marketing/lore guys) does without the goo, just as Dust's soldiers do. He controls the systems of his craft with his hands, as well. He IS immortal though and can be cloned - more easily than a capsuleer, I'd guess. |
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ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
85
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Great Discussion
The direction of this post is on track, just going to move it to the appropriate forum. Continue with the great work.
On On ISD Flidais Asagiri Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
593
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Only if it's a new game. |
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
118
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Only if it's a new game.
Well, yes. I think that was the idea. |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
1643
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Grab yer umbrellas boys, its raining **** from GD again. Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel IG OOPE |
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CCP BunnyVirus
C C P C C P Alliance
514
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
there are no plans right now regarding the E:VR game but if we do something with it we prolly wont use kickstarter 3D Artist |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1344
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Posted - 2013.04.29 21:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP FoxFour was very very clear that there are no plans to take this forward, when talking to him.
That's not: they're planning not to take it forward. It's: We have no plans regarding this at all. It was something fun to do.
So it's up to us to make sure that CCP are aware, at the levels where such plans can be made, that we want it. Just need to do it politely and respectfully. If loudly.
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
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CCP Nimbus
C C P C C P Alliance
15
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Posted - 2013.04.29 22:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Everything in this thread is giving me the warm fuzzies! This was a blast to make, and all of us involved in the project were super excited - but I don't think any of us expected reactions like this.
Unfortunately I don't have time to reply to any of the individual comments - but I have read them all, and I can't find words to show my appreciation for your enthusiasm about this.
<3 |
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CCP Karuck
C C P C C P Alliance
38
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Posted - 2013.04.29 22:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
What Nimbus said :) We cannot really comment on anything for now since we simply.. don't know :) - Senior Web Developer / EVR dev |
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Kirjava
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3165
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Posted - 2013.04.29 23:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
ISD Flidais Asagiri wrote:Great Discussion
The direction of this post is on track, just going to move it to the appropriate forum. Continue with the great work.
On On How is this not Eve related?
Also yes, fund it. I'll even pay money to play the game
That said, please a champaign. I really wish for a single player champaign game in New Eden.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Cardinal Kirjava - Redeclaring the Crusade in the name of the Goddess since 2012. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ |
Cam Mikaels
Infinicraft Industries
11
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Posted - 2013.04.30 02:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:enabling a boarding ship to clamp on. At this point, the dreadnought is locked down and a DUST boarding match is played, with an invader's victory condition being destruction of the pilot's pod. Onboard clones are activated to repel boarders, even as the titan's alliance tries to save the ship by rallying a new fleet before the DUST mercs can capture the titan.
At which point I would leave in disgust. DUSTers should stay in DUST and we should stay in EVE, and the two games should never mix. Well enough should be left alone. New Infinity dev blog: http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=123&Itemid=49
Man of many flounders. |
compulsatorAAUF shofah
compulsatorAAUF shofah Corporation
3
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Posted - 2013.04.30 02:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Now this is what CCP should have pushed into the console market! |
Jada Maroo
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
1070
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Posted - 2013.04.30 02:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
It's interesting how something so well received and that has an exciting gameplay premise with an immediately identifiable purpose will get no development, but CCP had no trouble steamrolling Incarna which had none of that.
Anyway, here's my suggestion to CCP to spare this project in a way that benefits both:
Flying in Stations
That's right, let us fly fighters and do battles in low security sections of stations. |
Isbariya
The Dancer. Initiative Mercenaries
42
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Posted - 2013.04.30 06:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
But how about you letting us use EVR for the Occulus as a downloadable game ? I would even buy the Dev kit right now just to play the EVR demo you had at fanfest |
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CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P C C P Alliance
163
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Posted - 2013.04.30 08:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Karuck wrote:What Nimbus said :) We cannot really comment on anything for now since we simply.. don't know :)
what they said. Bj++rn Jacobsen | Audio Designer | EVE Online, CCP Games | Anything sound related, ask away. |
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