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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1210
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Posted - 2013.05.07 09:23:00 -
[211] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:CSM8 is not communicating, why don't you talk to players? Considering almost every CSM candidate picked out CSM7s lack of communication as its biggest problem. Yet you still seem to be under the delusion that you communicated well. While I did enjoy your article in The Mittani.com you once again missed how we got stuck with the STV system. That alone shows how poor the communication from CSM7 was, not to mention a lack of posting in these forums. Frying Doom: CSM8 Apologist. Why did you sell out the players to the CSM? Are you really connected to Goonswarm and poisoning Mike's chances at the chair to ensure mynnna gets it? It makes a lot of sense now And yet another dodge of how we ended up with 3 members of the CSM deciding we should end up with an STV system, that elected 10 Null sec members. Good job. yet another dodge of me answering that question in like 5 threads. You need to come up with a new bead in the Rosary of Denial
Also, CCP Xhagen is not on the CSM, it was his decision. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Frying Doom
2472
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Posted - 2013.05.07 10:15:00 -
[212] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote: yet another dodge of me answering that question in like 5 threads. You need to come up with a new bead in the Rosary of Denial
Also, CCP Xhagen is not on the CSM, it was his decision.
So you are saying that CCP Xhagen, stuck us with the STV, and that 3 members of the CSM supported this move.
Well at least we finally cleared that up. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
198
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Posted - 2013.05.07 13:20:00 -
[213] - Quote
Actually Frying Doom, that would only be your interpretation of it, and I'd wager that it would be a willfully wrong interpretation at that. Just like your inability to show how a "HS Chair" would do anything different from a "NS Chair" by the virtue of where the chair might use the most of his/her time, your inability to show how CSM7 was eternally bad and did not say a word and was the worst CSM in history, your inability to show how STV is so horrible is actually a good argument to why it's incorrect.
For CSM8, 49 702 votes are represented on the council. In CSM7, that same number is 44 296. I'm not sure if you can add/subtract, but that's a difference of 5 406 voters represented. To further show why you're bad: By STV, all CSM8 representatives used the votes necessary (And not a single more) to get a seat. For CSM7, The Mittani spent 7 593 votes sending a message (Had he only gotten 2 464 votes, he'd be alternate). If the CSM7 votes for candidates that actually became representatives had been spent in a manner that would assure as many representatives as possible, all 14 candidates could have been representatives (So no need for alternates) with the same number of votes as Seleene (The lowest vote-scorer among "full seats"), and STILL have 4 466 votes to fraud away, or w/e. To make matters even worse, if we were to say that all 14 CSM members had full seats in CSM7, 26 348 votes were wasted (Overflow) in the CSM7 election.
When you try to paint STV in a bad light, try to do the numbers first. On CSM7, a full 14 813 votes were cast for a candidate who did not get a seat. Furthermore, 26 348 votes were effectively overflow votes compared to the lowest vote-getter on the council. Only 17 948 votes decided who would be delegates (Full and alternate in total).
Compare that to CSM8 and STV, please. One of them is able to pass for democracy, the other is not. Go figure which one you advocate.
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Frying Doom
2473
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:13:00 -
[214] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Actually Frying Doom, that would only be your interpretation of it, and I'd wager that it would be a willfully wrong interpretation at that. So then what was Alekseyev Karrde saying above? you seem very good at ridicule how about you tell me that?
Alphea Abbra wrote:Just like your inability to show how a "HS Chair" would do anything different from a "NS Chair" by the virtue of where the chair might use the most of his/her time, your inability to show how CSM7 was eternally bad and did not say a word and was the worst CSM in history, your inability to show how STV is so horrible is actually a good argument to why it's incorrect. Actually as I said before and many times, the PR value of a Hi-sec Chairman for the majority of the player base would be invaluable, rather than just another Null sec Chairman. If CSM7 was so wonderful, can you explain why almost every CSM8 candidate stated there level of communication and transparency was so poor?
Alphea Abbra wrote:For CSM8, 49 702 votes are represented on the council. In CSM7, that same number is 44 296. I'm not sure if you can add/subtract, but that's a difference of 5 406 voters represented. To further show why you're bad: By STV, all CSM8 representatives used the votes necessary (And not a single more) to get a seat. For CSM7, The Mittani spent 7 593 votes sending a message (Had he only gotten 2 464 votes, he'd be alternate). If the CSM7 votes for candidates that actually became representatives had been spent in a manner that would assure as many representatives as possible, all 14 candidates could have been representatives (So no need for alternates) with the same number of votes as Seleene (The lowest vote-scorer among "full seats"), and STILL have 4 466 votes to fraud away, or w/e. To make matters even worse, if we were to say that all 14 CSM members had full seats in CSM7, 26 348 votes were wasted (Overflow) in the CSM7 election.
When you try to paint STV in a bad light, try to do the numbers first. On CSM7, a full 14 813 votes were cast for a candidate who did not get a seat. Furthermore, 26 348 votes were effectively overflow votes compared to the lowest vote-getter on the council. Only 17 948 votes decided who would be delegates (Full and alternate in total). First you exclude the votes received by The Mittani then you use them in your example, you might want to decide if they were part of the election or not.
So 14813 votes were wasted in CSM7, and you claim none were wasted in CSM8, nice thing to claim without the actual ballots, also it would mean that the 14th member actually received the exact amount of transfer votes that he required and none extra.
Oh and as I have said before the STV system is good just not in low voter turn out elections as CSM6 claimed it would hand the CSM to the blocs, and low and behold we have 10 Null sec representatives and 2 from the Wormhole bloc. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
198
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:41:00 -
[215] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:So then what was Alekseyev Karrde saying above? you seem very good at ridicule how about you tell me that? My guess is "Xhagen made the final decision based on years of discussions with various CSMs and CCP" would be an honest interpretation of the statement.
Quote:Actually as I said before and many times, the PR value of a Hi-sec Chairman for the majority of the player base would be invaluable, rather than just another Null sec Chairman. Yeah, and if you didn't just state it as fact and y'know... actually made a sound argument about it, I might care.
Quote:If CSM7 was so wonderful, can you explain why almost every CSM8 candidate stated there level of communication and transparency was so poor? First, I'd not say CSM7 was wonderful. I feel my vote for Hans was well worth it and my other votes less so, and the CSM7 overall decent. What you quoted wasn't an endorsement for CSM7 either, but rather a comment on your inability to back up the point that CSM7 was horrible.
Quote:First you exclude the votes received by The Mittani then you use them in your example, you might want to decide if they were part of the election or not. Are we even reading the same post? I never excluded them in the first place.
Quote:So 14813 votes were wasted in CSM7, and you claim none were wasted in CSM8, nice thing to claim without the actual ballots, also it would mean that the 14th member actually received the exact amount of transfer votes that he required and none extra. Actually I assumed the number in the dev. blog was ready for use, but going back and looking it might not be so. My point will stand as long as fewer than ~5k votes were wasted in the CSM8 election.
QUOTED FROM THE POST ABOVE AND NOT FORMATTED DUE TO QUOTE LIMIT === Oh and as I have said before the STV system is good just not in low voter turn out elections as CSM6 claimed it would hand the CSM to the blocs, and low and behold we have 10 Null sec representatives and 2 from the Wormhole bloc. === END OF QUOTE FROM THE POST ABOVE AND FORMAT LACKS BECAUSE OF FORUM QUOTE LIMITS
That sounds more of a problem with CCP not getting the act together with announcing/advertising the vote, and the website being borked and everything. If all the HS people are dissatisfied with a system that is more proportional to the voters, maybe they should vote? |
Frying Doom
2473
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:45:00 -
[216] - Quote
A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
198
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 14:55:00 -
[217] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.
If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns. You fail to address where this is the fault of CSM7 (Or CSM8). If you're dissatisfied that the CSM is more representative to the votes cast, argue against STV. If you're dissatisfied that the votes cast aren't representative of where most people live, argue that CCP should do a better job advertising the CSM elections than they did this time. OR do what NS and WH in general has done: Organise. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9161
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:10:00 -
[218] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.
If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns.
Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet.
Conversely, CSM 6...
1 Kings 12:11
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
198
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:16:00 -
[219] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.
If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns. Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet. Conversely, CSM 6... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH - wheeze - AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ahah AHAHAH - pant - Eheheheh.
I like how your application of FD's logic is more internally consistent than his own application of it. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
836
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:46:00 -
[220] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet.
Conversely, CSM 6...
Hahaha.
Not really fair arguing like that; you need to handicap yourself to keep it competitive.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9183
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Posted - 2013.05.07 17:53:00 -
[221] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Malcanis wrote:Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet.
Conversely, CSM 6... Hahaha. Not really fair arguing like that; you need to handicap yourself to keep it competitive.
That's not the EVE way, my friend.
1 Kings 12:11
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Frying Doom
2476
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Posted - 2013.05.08 02:59:00 -
[222] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.
If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns. Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet. Conversely, CSM 6... Actually nice post.
But what I was actually saying is that if people do not feel represented by the CSM, they will just ignore it. Which I freely admit most already do. CCP has shown how it reacts to falling sub numbers. So if you have no faith in the CSM, history has shown us that the best way to have a voice is to un-sub and come back later.
I would like the CSM to be representative of EvE, so the majority feel like they have a voice, subsequently ways need to be found to et people to vote and believe in the CSM. Unfortunately doing the same thing year after year does not seem to be working and CSM8 will have a hard battle being that 10 members come from 20% of the player base and 2 others come from 5% of the player base. And 2 come from 60% of the player base. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
215
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Posted - 2013.05.08 04:15:00 -
[223] - Quote
You could also argue that Mangala is from the "RvB Bloc" so that leaves one. But the main issue with that argument is we don't actually know how representative that is of players, only characters. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Coldest Sea Sailing The Honda Accord
60
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Posted - 2013.05.08 04:16:00 -
[224] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:... much like you just went ahead and decided to be Issler's unofficial campaign manager last year, so much so that she had to publicly deny having any connection with you whatsoever.
^^^^ IKR? Mr. Doom, I'm afraid you aren't doing anybody any favors by endorsing them, please :stahp:...er...stop.(GåÉsee what you made me do?) I'm listening to-áBj+¦rk, playing EVE, eating fishsticks, and I'm cold....this is immersion gaming. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9187
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:10:00 -
[225] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:10 members come from 20% of the player base .
What are you talking about? I'm a hi-sec representative (3 of my 6 characters are in hi-sec), so the 80% have me as a rep.
I'm already hard at work brainstorming gameplay ideas with the CCP guys. We were dicussing some fun possibilities for hi-sec mining last night.
1 Kings 12:11
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dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
218
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:14:00 -
[226] - Quote
I'm guessing it's all NDR for the time being? The miner in me just pricked up his dirty little ears Mal.
Also I think Frying is taking all of the people by their alliance/corp tickers only with that stat. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
Prince Kobol
730
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:27:00 -
[227] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:10 members come from 20% of the player base . What are you talking about? I'm a hi-sec representative (3 of my 6 characters are in hi-sec), so the 80% have me as a rep. I'm already hard at work brainstorming gameplay ideas with the CCP guys. We were dicussing some fun possibilities for hi-sec mining last night.
hi-sec mining.... fun gameplay... is that even possible?
Unless the roids shoot back, just randomly explode or have real mass so if your ship hits them it causes massive damage how can mining possible be made fun?
Good luck with that task lol
I salute you :) |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
220
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:59:00 -
[228] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:10 members come from 20% of the player base . What are you talking about? I'm a hi-sec representative (3 of my 6 characters are in hi-sec), so the 80% have me as a rep. I'm already hard at work brainstorming gameplay ideas with the CCP guys. We were dicussing some fun possibilities for hi-sec mining last night. hi-sec mining.... fun gameplay... is that even possible? Unless the roids shoot back, just randomly explode or have real mass so if your ship hits them it causes massive damage how can mining possible be made fun? Good luck with that task lol I salute you :)
You now need to tackle the roid to stop it running away, then apply webs to slow it down. The roid is now angry (did I mention it was sentient?) and you have to tank the damage from tiny rocks hitting you like bullets while you drive a laser deep into its heart killing it. The roid now drops minerals that can be salvaged with a strip miner. Also they can only be targeted by mining barges.
I come up with some stupid **** sometimes... Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9188
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:24:00 -
[229] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:10 members come from 20% of the player base . What are you talking about? I'm a hi-sec representative (3 of my 6 characters are in hi-sec), so the 80% have me as a rep. I'm already hard at work brainstorming gameplay ideas with the CCP guys. We were dicussing some fun possibilities for hi-sec mining last night. hi-sec mining.... fun gameplay... is that even possible? Unless the roids shoot back, just randomly explode or have real mass so if your ship hits them it causes massive damage how can mining possible be made fun? Good luck with that task lol I salute you :) You now need to tackle the roid to stop it running away, then apply webs to slow it down. The roid is now angry (did I mention it was sentient?) and you have to tank the damage from tiny rocks hitting you like bullets while you drive a laser deep into its heart killing it. The roid now drops minerals that can be salvaged with a strip miner. Also they can only be targeted by mining barges. I come up with some stupid **** sometimes...
You forgot to mention that you're now also wardecced by Scordite
1 Kings 12:11
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dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
221
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:37:00 -
[230] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: You forgot to mention that you're now also wardecced by Scordite
Haha well played. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
204
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:45:00 -
[231] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:You now need to tackle the roid to stop it running away, then apply webs to slow it down. The roid is now angry (did I mention it was sentient?) and you have to tank the damage from tiny rocks hitting you like bullets while you drive a laser deep into its heart killing it. The roid now drops minerals that can be salvaged with a strip miner. Also they can only be targeted by mining barges.
I come up with some stupid **** sometimes... Do you acquire SP by drinking the roids' heart blood? |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
222
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:50:00 -
[232] - Quote
No but you can harvest its tears for a boost to skill training times. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
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