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Frying Doom
2431
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 06:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Who I would like to see as the CSM chairman and secretary and why.
The CSM White Paper describes the positions as follows:
Quote:The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. The responsibilities of the Secretary and Vice-Secretary are related to the production of official CSM publications such as the CSM Summit Minutes.
The CSM Chairman has for the most part, excluding CSM7 been the candidate with the highest votes. Now the council must decide.
Given the horrible turn out, of just 12.12% of the voters this year I would like to nominate a candidate for the good of the CSM, rather than just good for someones ego.
I would like to propose the CSM chose Mike Azariah, for the position as Chairman, should he be prepared to accept the position.
He describes himself as
Quote:I have played Eve for enough time to have tried a bit of almost everything. But if you ask me to nail down the style of play I best represent and identify with it would be the Casual Player. The person who has a job, kids, wife, pets and cannot sit at the machine uninterrupted for five hours straight bashing a POS or waiting for a fleet to form. The person who does not want his entire Eve experience to be spreadsheets or clicking to manage PI.
I have spent more than half a year in wormholes, managing the POS there drove me out, in the end, frustration got that bad. I flew with Soco in the south and did manage to get in on fleets now and again but CTAGÇÖs donGÇÖt always jibe up with a limited time availability. If you are nodding right now at this then you know what I mean and you have experienced the same sort of problems. You are the one I want to represent. I fly incursions for my isk and then blow it in places like the Bomber Bar or RvB or helping out in contests, donating prizes.
I have been active in the community since 2008.. I currently help host the podcast Podside, I have had a blog as a proud member of the Eve Blog Pack for more than four years. I have written for Eon and the Eve Tribune, often doing commentary on the CSM. My twitter handle is @mikeazariah. If you want to hear the Crossing Zebras interview it is here. Though you will get a lot of what I think from the Podside podcasts as well.
I donGÇÖt know it all. I am not a Game Dev nor do I aspire to be one. I am always willing to ask questions when I donGÇÖt know the answers and consider the answers carefully. I am a teacher by trade and the skill set that goes with that would be helpful as a CSM member. I take pride in my ability to see things from more than one side and explain my position well.
Now I believe that having him as the Chairman would raise the profile of the CSM with in the eyes of those people who did not bother voting. It will definitely raise the awareness in Hi-sec among the non-voters a lot more than a Null sec member will.
So do something for the good of the CSM, make him chairman, with Mynnna as Vice-Chairman to fill in any holes or problems that might occur due to Mike's RL.
As to Secretary, well can anyone think of a better choice than the blog machine that is Ripard Teg.
Remember, as CSM7 showed so well, the choices you make will effect how the players see you as well as the turn out for the next election. Who you choose for CSM officers will say a lot about whether members are on the CSM for the good of the players and CSM itself, or just on there for for your egos. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1262
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 06:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shame you didn't run for CSM and get elected. Your opinion might technically count in that case! "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2431
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 07:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Shame you didn't run for CSM and get elected. Your opinion might technically count in that case! CSM member or not it is simple logic.
Good for the CSM or good for the ego of a Null CSM member.
Another Null Chairman will just hurt its image to the players as a whole. It will just look like another Null sec lobby group.
They have the ability to do what is best for the CSM, and after CSM7 it really needs it. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
188
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 07:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Shame you didn't run for CSM and get elected. Your opinion might technically count in that case! CSM member or not it is simple logic. Good for the CSM or good for the ego of a Null CSM member. Another Null Chairman will just hurt its image to the players as a whole. It will just look like another Null sec lobby group. They have the ability to do what is best for the CSM, and after CSM7 it really needs it. Your "campaigning" does more to hurt the CSM than any of the 0.0 CSM members can be reasonably expected to, during this term. Will you take action against that? Maybe a proposal to stop involving yourself in CSM politics?
Oh, wait... |
Frying Doom
2431
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 07:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Shame you didn't run for CSM and get elected. Your opinion might technically count in that case! CSM member or not it is simple logic. Good for the CSM or good for the ego of a Null CSM member. Another Null Chairman will just hurt its image to the players as a whole. It will just look like another Null sec lobby group. They have the ability to do what is best for the CSM, and after CSM7 it really needs it. Your "campaigning" does more to hurt the CSM than any of the 0.0 CSM members can be reasonably expected to, during this term. Will you take action against that? Maybe a proposal to stop involving yourself in CSM politics? Oh, wait... Would you care to back that up with a single fact? and I would love to see you prove any thing I have said did more harm than the Null members of CSM 7. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1263
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 07:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
The best part of this is I strongly doubt you even asked Mike Azariah if he even wanted to be chair at all, much like you just went ahead and decided to be Issler's unofficial campaign manager last year, so much so that she had to publicly deny having any connection with you whatsoever.
For all of your bluster and acting like you're an agent for the players, you really have a hard time with players making independent decisions that might not involve you. You may want to fix that. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2431
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 07:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:The best part of this is I strongly doubt you even asked Mike Azariah if he even wanted to be chair at all, much like you just went ahead and decided to be Issler's unofficial campaign manager last year, so much so that she had to publicly deny having any connection with you whatsoever.
For all of your bluster and acting like you're an agent for the players, you really have a hard time with players making independent decisions that might not involve you. You may want to fix that. No I didn't.
I wonder if that is why I put in the words "should he be prepared to accept the position."
Actually the majority of players seem to have decided, that after years of Null sec lobby groups, a lack of transparency and a lack of communication, they have just decided to stop voting.
So the players have made an independent decision, I would like them to change that position, but I doubt that will be changed with more of the same crap. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1263
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 07:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ahh so it's not the Devil STV that tanked the voting turnout anymore, it's the "years of null sec lobby groups"? What changed in the past 9 hours ? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2431
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 08:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Ahh so it's not the Devil STV that tanked the voting turnout anymore, it's the "years of null sec lobby groups"? What changed in the past 9 hours ? The STV did not help as it does not help in elections world wide, it is even listed as one of its drawbacks. That is one of the reasons the voting dropped.
Did I say it was the only reason the votes dropped?
Strange that I would have said "Yes I think leaving the simpler system, and returning voter interest by making our votes count for who goes to Iceland, then a full year of things from CCP and the CSM as to why the CSM is important, are necessary. As well as a lot of transparency and communication from CSM8. To try to undo this mess." if I thought the STV was the whole problem.
As I said If we end up with another Null chairman it will just be the same crap as before. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1263
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 08:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:As I said If we end up with another Null chairman it will just be the same crap as before.
"Same crap" like CSM 6 which led to far and away the largest voting turnout in CSM history? That was the most null dominated CSM of all so far, and it yielded the most success. Even with this year's losses it's still the 2nd best turnout ever.
You can't even rage against things right. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
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Frying Doom
2431
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 08:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:As I said If we end up with another Null chairman it will just be the same crap as before. "Same crap" like CSM 6 which led to far and away the largest voting turnout in CSM history? That was the most null dominated CSM of all so far, and it yielded the most success. Even with this year's losses it's still the 2nd best turnout ever. You can't even rage against things right. Yes it was by far the most communicative and transparent and a step in the right direction, but most of what it did was focused on Null sec. Imagine the success it could have been if it had not just been so focused on Null.
As to second best turn out ever, that is rather narrow, yes it had the second highest number of votes, but the lowest percentage of voters since CSM got 12 month terms.
As I said doing the same crap again, will just lead to the same crap, except now the voters are already not caring in even greater numbers.
But I know you want the chairman to be from your alliance, it is all just an ego thing. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1263
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 08:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Actually I just want the Chair to be someone who wants the job, not just the title. You don't even seem too concerned with whether or not your "personal pick" even wants the title, let alone the job. All you give a **** about is where in space the Chair lives, which is ironically enough exactly the type of self-serving nonsense you accuse CSM fill-in-the-blank of being.
Also CSM 6's focus wasn't so much on null as it was "making sure CCP doesn't die as a company in front of us". Summer of Rage and all that. I would ask why you don't remember that, but given you keep referring to "years of null sec lobby groups" when CSM 5 had virtually no null presence at all (and CSM 7 was almost perfectly diverse), I don't think you pay too much attention to anything that might spoil your catchphrase-du-jour. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2432
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 08:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Actually I just want the Chair to be someone who wants the job, not just the title. You don't even seem too concerned with whether or not your "personal pick" even wants the title, let alone the job. All you give a **** about is where in space the Chair lives, which is ironically enough exactly the type of self-serving nonsense you accuse CSM fill-in-the-blank of being. Which do you think will get more people to vote next year, a Hi-sec candidate who has a record of communication with the playerbase. Or another Null sec candidate, yes there are a lot of Null candates who would do a good job, but I think Mike would do a better one.
Snow Axe wrote:Also CSM 6's focus wasn't so much on null as it was "making sure CCP doesn't die as a company in front of us". Summer of Rage and all that. I would ask why you don't remember that, but given you keep referring to "years of null sec lobby groups" when CSM 5 had virtually no null presence at all (and CSM 7 was almost perfectly diverse), I don't think you pay too much attention to anything that might spoil your catchphrase-du-jour. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CSM_6_Activities_Summary Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1263
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 08:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Which do you think will get more people to vote next year, a Hi-sec candidate who has a record of communication with the playerbase. Or another Null sec candidate, yes there are a lot of Null candates who would do a good job, but I think Mike would do a better one.y
And your opinion is based on literally nothing other than "NULLSEC IS YUCKY". This is why nobody listens to you, by the way. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2432
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 09:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Which do you think will get more people to vote next year, a Hi-sec candidate who has a record of communication with the playerbase. Or another Null sec candidate, yes there are a lot of Null candates who would do a good job, but I think Mike would do a better one.y And your opinion is based on literally nothing other than "NULLSEC IS YUCKY". This is why nobody listens to you, by the way. I am glad, mainly because you guys can drop the whole, you are so damaging crap as well as the fact that NULLSEC IS YUCKY. Just ask anyone who lives there.
My opinion is based on what I think the other 87.88% of the eligible voters would like and that is not
- Another CSM headed by a Null sec member.
- An STV Voting system
- A council where CCP chooses 5 of the people that go to Iceland.
- A non-communicative CSM
- A CSM that is as transparent as a brick.
- Another CSM that is just a mouth piece for CCP
Players want the why, they should vote. The how while important is no way near as important as the why.
Oh and of course CCP not waiting till the last minute to promote the CSM would help too.
I also found some of CCPs comments rather funny. " CCP Solomon GÇô Technical Producer
Since its inception, the CSM has gone through significant change both in the quality of its interactions with CCP and its value as perceived by the player base."
As apparently their "quality of its interactions with CCP" were going up while "its value as perceived by the player base.", was hitting the floor. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
188
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 10:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:My opinion is based on what I think the other 87.88% of the eligible voters would like and that is not So, your opinion is based on taking the support from ~88% of EVE accounts as granted? You know, that is a quite impressive amount of hubris and ego you're sporting there...
Quote:
- Another CSM headed by a Null sec member.
- An STV Voting system
- A council where CCP chooses 5 of the people that go to Iceland.
- A non-communicative CSM
- A CSM that is as transparent as a brick.
- Another CSM that is just a mouth piece for CCP
So, the first is based solely on your inability to realise how 0.0 is not a hivemind. The second is a grasp for straws. The third is a lie. The three last are so loaded with your tinfoil I'm surprised it didn't DDoS the forums.
Quote:Players want the why, they should vote. The how while important is no way near as important as the why. Oh and of course CCP not waiting till the last minute to promote the CSM would help too. I also found some of CCPs comments rather funny. " CCP Solomon GÇô Technical Producer Since its inception, the CSM has gone through significant change both in the quality of its interactions with CCP and its value as perceived by the player base." As apparently their "quality of its interactions with CCP" were going up while "its value as perceived by the player base.", was hitting the floor. Do you have a context for that? As I read the quote itself, he's speaking about the improvements in both areas. But of course, I'm a (proto-)goon, so my opinion doesn't count, right? |
Frying Doom
2432
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 10:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote: But of course, I'm a (proto-)goon, so my opinion doesn't count, right?
Actually I just think your a raving nutter.
"So, the first is based solely on your inability to realise how 0.0 is not a hivemind. The second is a grasp for straws. The third is a lie. The three last are so loaded with your tinfoil I'm surprised it didn't DDoS the forums."
If you actually understood the word think, it might be helpful.
1) My beliefs are not what I was talking about but what I perceive to be the views of the other 87.88% 2) Try reading the players comments on the STV voting system not just the sound of your own voice. 3) Point 3, I believe the answer should be "Are you on crack?" and it is good to see you believe that a communicative, transparent CSM, that is a voice of the players is just for tinfoil wearers.
And frankly after your tinfoil hat comment, no your opinion doesn't count. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
190
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 13:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:If you actually understood the word think, it might be helpful. Whereas you need to actually think?
Quote:1) My beliefs are not what I was talking about but what I perceive to be the views of the other 87.88% Exactly, you try to be spokesperson for ~88% who didn't vote, and claim that your issues are their issues. Doesn't that seem, just slightly, like the self-absorbed stereotype you paint the goons as?
Quote:2) Try reading the players comments on the STV voting system not just the sound of your own voice. They have been both positive and negative for the system itself, while the voting website was a hassle (And apparently got some tweaking). As for "my voice" or your "I'm the players" ... I didn't state an opinion predicated upon support from ~88% of the players.
Quote:3) Point 3, I believe the answer should be "Are you on crack?" and it is good to see you believe that a communicative, transparent CSM, that is a voice of the players is just for tinfoil wearers. You're going quite far to misrepresent me, but I am not surprised after seeing what you have said about goons, Issler and a lot of other people/groups.
Quote:And frankly after your tinfoil hat comment, no your opinion doesn't count. I take that as a good sign. If you valued my opinion and supported it, I might have to reevaluate my stance on the issue in question.
|
Frying Doom
2433
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Funny I don't remember saying I have the support of the other 88% of EvE.
But frankly neither does the CSM, and just doing the same things again and again and expecting a different result, well that is just nuts. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2433
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
My last 3 points, were that the players do not want
Frying Doom wrote:A non-communicative CSM A CSM that is as transparent as a brick. Another CSM that is just a mouth piece for CCP Your response
Alphea Abbra wrote:The three last are so loaded with your tinfoil I'm surprised it didn't DDoS the forums. and you claim
Alphea Abbra wrote:You're going quite far to misrepresent me, but I am not surprised after seeing what you have said about goons, Issler and a lot of other people/groups. And I am misrepresenting you by saying "you believe that a communicative, transparent CSM, that is a voice of the players is just for tinfoil wearers. "
I think I will once again refer you to point 3. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1182
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:And frankly after your tinfoil hat comment, no your opinion doesn't count. Frying knows he's not crazy. You're crazy for thinking he's crazy, because if he's crazy then %87.88 of the player base is crazy because Frying knows how they think and they agree with him. 88% of the players cant be crazy, that's just logic man. It's the 22% of the players that THINK they're normal man, THEY'RE the crazy ones not Frying Doom. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Mike Azariah
Gallente Benevolence Association
292
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
We don't actually do the Chair till all the paperwork (NDA and comms) is settled.
If you look at the CSM8 members there are a LOT of good candidates for the positions and we have already had some nice chats and looked at each other nervously. In the end, though, it will be something that we agree on and the 'figurehead/scapegoat' will be chosen from amongst us.
Right now, we need to get to know each other so we can make informed decisions based on the person, not the platform and CERTAINLY not the corp or alliance tag attached to them.
We have grown past that
m Mike Azariah for CSM8 - Representing YOU |
Frying Doom
2435
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Frying Doom wrote:And frankly after your tinfoil hat comment, no your opinion doesn't count. Frying knows he's not crazy. You're crazy for thinking he's crazy, because if he's crazy then %87.88 of the player base is crazy because Frying knows how they think and they agree with him. 88% of the players cant be crazy, that's just logic man. It's the 22% of the players that THINK they're normal man, THEY'RE the crazy ones not Frying Doom. Well I am glad you can add up so well.
Must be why you think the CSM8 voting numbers were good.
Anyway I can always say that I'm crazy but not as crazy as a CSM7 member. Need proof, look at the mess you left behind.
12.12% 5 members going to Iceland picked by CCP STV system, only 3 members actually want to own up to supporting Massive lack of communication The transparency of a brick Turning the CSM into a CCP mouth piece. and the list goes on.
Maybe you can answer which 50% of Odyssey it was that the CSM backed? or you cant comment on backing already announced features?
Over this election I saw more people on the forums asking for the removal of the CSM than ever before. Yes you worked well with CCP, and the price tag was too bloody high. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2435
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:We don't actually do the Chair till all the paperwork (NDA and comms) is settled.
If you look at the CSM8 members there are a LOT of good candidates for the positions and we have already had some nice chats and looked at each other nervously. In the end, though, it will be something that we agree on and the 'figurehead/scapegoat' will be chosen from amongst us.
Right now, we need to get to know each other so we can make informed decisions based on the person, not the platform and CERTAINLY not the corp or alliance tag attached to them.
We have grown past that
m Yes there are a lot of good people on this CSM.
On that I will not argue. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
618
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 15:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
does frying doom represent or speak for any constituency or group of people whatsoever
like does anyone want to claim him as their voice |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1871
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 16:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:My opinion is based on what I think the other 87.88% of the eligible voters would like Whatever that is, they didn't care enough about it to spend 30 seconds voting. Why should their opinions matter when they don't participate in the process? Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
951
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 16:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: Would you care to back that up with a single fact? and I would love to see you prove any thing I have said did more harm than the Null members of CSM 7.
Would you care to back that up with a single fact? and I would love to see you prove any thing Null members of CSM 7 did more harm than any thing you have said. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
755
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 16:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
You seriously need to evaluate your life.
The CSM is an annual popularity contest to decide who gets to be unpaid playtesters for a 500k subscription video game. There are no actual "democratic values" or "beleaguered minorities" at stake here. People don't vote because people don't care, and no amount of grand-standing on the ass-end of a forum most players don't even read is going to change that.
You are so disconnected from the reality that underpins what actually goes on with respect to the CSM that you cannot impact it in a purposeful way no matter how often and hard you hammer your keyboard. |
Gelatine
EverBroke Geeks
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 18:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
First thread ever where I'm in total agreement with goons.
Since Seagull arrived on the scene, I don't think I've ever been more positive about the CSM or the future of EVE tbh. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
192
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 20:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gelatine wrote:First thread ever where I'm in total agreement with goons.
Since Seagull arrived on the scene, I don't think I've ever been more positive about the CSM or the future of EVE tbh. The biggest problem with Frying Doom (And a few others) is how reasonable any goon seems in comparison. Suddenly, the goons are only doing what is best for us, supporting us and wishing us well.
I can't remember exactly which argument it was that made me realise I had to vote for some 0.0 candidates whom I would normally desire to evict from their current living arrangements, but I'm pretty certain Frying Doom was a part of what convinced me.
I'm starting to suspect that he's actually a goon alt, made to make the goons look likeable, kissable and kawaii.
Hmm... |
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Prince Kobol
727
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 21:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
I would love the next chair for the CSM to interact with the playerbase and try to bring some life back to CSM.
Yes CCP need to do more but so does the CSM or next years CSM will be even worse.
Whoever is chosen for the role I really hope they consider doing Q&A sessions with player base ever few months on something like IRC and not these forums where posts are often derailed and full people just on ego trips,
Also we need more updates from everybody on the CSM on not just the token few posts just after and before CSM elections.
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Frying Doom
2443
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 21:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Frying Doom wrote: Would you care to back that up with a single fact? and I would love to see you prove any thing I have said did more harm than the Null members of CSM 7.
Would you care to back that up with a single fact? and I would love to see you prove any thing Null members of CSM 7 did more harm than any thing you have said. Hmmm, I wonder where the Chairman and Vice-Chairman were from. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2443
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 22:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Frying Doom wrote:My opinion is based on what I think the other 87.88% of the eligible voters would like Whatever that is, they didn't care enough about it to spend 30 seconds voting. Why should their opinions matter when they don't participate in the process? The idea is to get the more interested in the process.
So another Null Chairman will produce the same amount of interest as before, interest by Null players.
The players need to be educated and inspired to vote. They need the WHY.
But as I said the choice of chairman will show whether this was done for the good of the CSM or just for someones ego. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Ali Aras
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
253
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
It's really hard to call this CSM terrible and bad at communicating before this CSM actually...does anything. Or well, you can, but it's a meaningless accusation.
Regarding the large group of non-voting players, I don't think the corp affiliation of the chairman will change their opinion of the CSM at all-- I doubt most of them really know what it is or what it's doing. Obviously anyone who's well-plugged-in to the blogosphere, tweetfleet, or forums will get a whiff of the CSM (sometimes accompanied by a heaping pile of disdain), but the average, mostly-solo player? Probably not.
This is a place where CCP could help by promoting the CSM all year long. I'm curious what percentage of the playerbase reads dev blogs. I suspect it's higher than the percentage that reads the forums or (other) blogs. Increasing engagement with the metagame and politics is a bigger "problem" (scarequotes, because I doubt the non-participants see it that way) than just picking whose name has "chairman" next to it. Ali Aras for CSM8 Warp to Sun (my blog) |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
953
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:Frying Doom wrote: Would you care to back that up with a single fact? and I would love to see you prove any thing I have said did more harm than the Null members of CSM 7.
Would you care to back that up with a single fact? and I would love to see you prove any thing Null members of CSM 7 did more harm than any thing you have said. Hmmm, I wonder where the Chairman and Vice-Chairman were from.
Which proves basically nothing. You're inventing a cause and implying an effect with absolutely zero evidence to support it. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Frying Doom
2444
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 01:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:Frying Doom wrote: Would you care to back that up with a single fact? and I would love to see you prove any thing I have said did more harm than the Null members of CSM 7.
Would you care to back that up with a single fact? and I would love to see you prove any thing Null members of CSM 7 did more harm than any thing you have said. Hmmm, I wonder where the Chairman and Vice-Chairman were from. Which proves basically nothing. You're inventing a cause and implying an effect with absolutely zero evidence to support it. Strange as it seems to be exactly what you are doing. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
953
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Invented cause: "Chair and vice chair were both from nullsec, and neither seemed to communicate very well." Effect you are claiming: "Interest in the CSM dropped and turnout was lower for the next CSM election." Evidence that actually gets you from cause to effect:
All I am doing is asking you to provide us with the evidence that gets you from cause to effect. I am inventing nor claiming nothing.
e: Well, okay, I reversed your previous statement. Sane people recognize this as mockery, however, rather than a serious statement. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1870
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 04:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Frying Doom wrote:And frankly after your tinfoil hat comment, no your opinion doesn't count. Frying knows he's not crazy. You're crazy for thinking he's crazy, because if he's crazy then %87.88 of the player base is crazy because Frying knows how they think and they agree with him. 88% of the players cant be crazy, that's just logic man. It's the 22% of the players that THINK they're normal man, THEY'RE the crazy ones not Frying Doom. Call me crazy, but some of this math is wrong.
Amarr Militia - Fweddit - http://fweddit.com Poetic Discourse - http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com |
Frying Doom
2445
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 04:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Invented cause: "Chair and vice chair were both from nullsec, and neither seemed to communicate very well." Effect you are claiming: "Interest in the CSM dropped and turnout was lower for the next CSM election." Evidence that actually gets you from cause to effect: All I am doing is asking you to provide us with the evidence that gets you from cause to effect. I am inventing nor claiming nothing. e: Well, okay, I reversed your previous statement. Sane people recognize this as mockery, however, rather than a serious statement. So are you claiming that the chairman and vice-chairmans lack of communication, trebors wonderful plan for CCP to chose 5 people to go to Iceland, had nothing to do with the voter turn out? The cause of the low voter turn out were the actions of CSM7.
It hardly takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if the CSM acts like CSM did, voter turnout will fall. Your inability to grasp this really does not bode well for you being chairman, as you do not seem to grasp that what CSM7 did turned away voters. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
192
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 04:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Frying Doom wrote:And frankly after your tinfoil hat comment, no your opinion doesn't count. Frying knows he's not crazy. You're crazy for thinking he's crazy, because if he's crazy then %87.88 of the player base is crazy because Frying knows how they think and they agree with him. 88% of the players cant be crazy, that's just logic man. It's the 22% of the players that THINK they're normal man, THEY'RE the crazy ones not Frying Doom. Call me crazy, but some of this math is wrong. No, it just shows you're part of the Goonspiracy too! Regular math? That's crazy! You can expect people to take your opinion seriously with sheep mentality math!
Use some non-corrupt math!
2+2=5!
log(10) = 3 !
Stop using this conformist Goonspiracy math, it's scaring voters off!
|
|
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
953
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 04:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:Invented cause: "Chair and vice chair were both from nullsec, and neither seemed to communicate very well." Effect you are claiming: "Interest in the CSM dropped and turnout was lower for the next CSM election." Evidence that actually gets you from cause to effect: All I am doing is asking you to provide us with the evidence that gets you from cause to effect. I am inventing nor claiming nothing. e: Well, okay, I reversed your previous statement. Sane people recognize this as mockery, however, rather than a serious statement. So are you claiming that the chairman and vice-chairmans lack of communication, trebors wonderful plan for CCP to chose 5 people to go to Iceland, had nothing to do with the voter turn out? The cause of the low voter turn out were the actions of CSM7. It hardly takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if the CSM acts like CSM did, voter turnout will fall. Your inability to grasp this really does not bode well for you being chairman, as you do not seem to grasp that what CSM7 did turned away voters.
I am claiming nothing, except that you have no proof connecting your supposed cause and effect. You might as well be saying "The sky is blue, therefore jelly doughnut." Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Frying Doom
2445
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 04:59:00 -
[42] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:Invented cause: "Chair and vice chair were both from nullsec, and neither seemed to communicate very well." Effect you are claiming: "Interest in the CSM dropped and turnout was lower for the next CSM election." Evidence that actually gets you from cause to effect: All I am doing is asking you to provide us with the evidence that gets you from cause to effect. I am inventing nor claiming nothing. e: Well, okay, I reversed your previous statement. Sane people recognize this as mockery, however, rather than a serious statement. So are you claiming that the chairman and vice-chairmans lack of communication, trebors wonderful plan for CCP to chose 5 people to go to Iceland, had nothing to do with the voter turn out? The cause of the low voter turn out were the actions of CSM7. It hardly takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if the CSM acts like CSM did, voter turnout will fall. Your inability to grasp this really does not bode well for you being chairman, as you do not seem to grasp that what CSM7 did turned away voters. I am claiming nothing, except that you have no proof connecting your supposed cause and effect. You might as well be saying "The sky is blue, therefore jelly doughnut." Yes and the 1930's great depression had nothing to do with people jumping out of windows.
You really would sell any crock of crap, just so you trying to be chairman doesn't just look like ego padding.
Maybe if you actually paid attention you would be able to see that CSM7s actions did lower the voter turn out.
But you will just dodge so you can be just another Null sec chairman out to feed your ego. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2445
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 05:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Frying Doom wrote:And frankly after your tinfoil hat comment, no your opinion doesn't count. Frying knows he's not crazy. You're crazy for thinking he's crazy, because if he's crazy then %87.88 of the player base is crazy because Frying knows how they think and they agree with him. 88% of the players cant be crazy, that's just logic man. It's the 22% of the players that THINK they're normal man, THEY'RE the crazy ones not Frying Doom. Call me crazy, but some of this math is wrong. No, it just shows you're part of the Goonspiracy too! Regular math? That's crazy! You can expect people to take your opinion seriously with sheep mentality math! Use some non-corrupt math! 2+2=5! log(10) = 3 ! Stop using this conformist Goonspiracy math, it's scaring voters off! Now while 88% plus 22% would mean 110%, is not really good maths, I must point out that it is not impossible for people who are as mad as a hatter, to actually believe they are sane.
Take you as the perfect example.
Mind you I do love your use or Goonspiracy, shame you think your own alliance is to insignificant to be capable of anything like that and a Null sec CSM member using the chairmans position to stuff their own egos is hardly a conspiracy, or something new for that matter. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
953
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 05:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Maybe if you actually paid attention you would be able to see that CSM7s actions did lower the voter turn out.
Just saying something over and over doesn't make it true. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Frying Doom
2445
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 05:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Maybe if you actually paid attention you would be able to see that CSM7s actions did lower the voter turn out.
Just saying something over and over doesn't make it true. Nor does, for that matter, resorting to ad hominem attacks to try to cover up the lack of evidence. You really must be clueless if you believe CSM7s actions did not lower the voter turn out.
But I suppose this way if you act clueless you can stuff your ego with the chairmans position, right? Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
953
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 05:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Here's what you would need to do to prove your statement. Get the list of voters from last year. Get the list of voters from this year. If there are voters from last year who did not vote this year, poll at least a statistically valid sample of them, and see what they say.
Unless you can do that, all you're doing is asserting your own belief as truth, and since you can't do that, you're instead resorting to calling me dumb and clueless and such - one ad hominem attack after another - in lieu of that actual evidence. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Frying Doom
2445
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 05:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Here's what you would need to do to prove your statement. Get the list of voters from last year. Get the list of voters from this year. If there are voters from last year who did not vote this year, poll at least a statistically valid sample of them, and see what they say.
Unless you can do that, all you're doing is asserting your own belief as truth, and since you can't do that, you're instead resorting to calling me dumb and clueless and such - one ad hominem attack after another - in lieu of that actual evidence. Yes that is how you prove something is bad.
Or you might just open your eyes and read these forums or talk to people in hi-sec
Like I said anything for the chairman's seat huh, will be nice to see you polling everyone to get evidence that fixing null is a good idea. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
953
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 05:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Frying Doom
2445
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 06:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
mynnna wrote:"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use. Are you a member of the flat earth society? Your arguments make that much sense.
So why do you believe the CSM voter numbers took a nose dive, or are you already towing the company line with "Peace-time CSM"? Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9032
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 06:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use. Are you a member of the flat earth society? Your arguments make that much sense. So why do you believe the CSM voter numbers took a nose dive, or are you already towing the company line with "Peace-time CSM"?
The flat earth hypothesis has been disproved by people who used evidence and maths in their proof. They did a good job, so now everyone accepts the world is round, but that acceptance is only because of the evidence and maths.
I assume that you picked an example that so obviously counters your argument as an indirectly ironic way of conceding that mynnna is right?
1 Kings 12:11
|
|
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 06:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Are you a member of the flat earth society? ?
Are you? I just ask because you both have the whole "screech loudly about how your beliefs are true because they're your beliefs" thing going on. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
151
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use. Are you a member of the flat earth society? Your arguments make that much sense. So why do you believe the CSM voter numbers took a nose dive, or are you already towing the company line with "Peace-time CSM"? The flat earth hypothesis has been disproved by people who used evidence and maths in their proof. They did a good job, so now everyone accepts the world is round, but that acceptance is only because of the evidence and maths. I assume that you picked an example that so obviously counters your argument as an indirectly ironic way of conceding that mynnna is right?
I was going to say that right now.
Until there is concrete evidence there is no way for either side of this argument to "win". It's just a subjective opinion thing, Frying's negative CSM opinion vs everyone else. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
|
Frying Doom
2445
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:07:00 -
[53] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use. Are you a member of the flat earth society? Your arguments make that much sense. So why do you believe the CSM voter numbers took a nose dive, or are you already towing the company line with "Peace-time CSM"? The flat earth hypothesis has been disproved by people who used evidence and maths in their proof. They did a good job, so now everyone accepts the world is round, but that acceptance is only because of the evidence and maths. I assume that you picked an example that so obviously counters your argument as an indirectly ironic way of conceding that mynnna is right? I do love such definitive statements from people, they so often turn out to be wrong.
Wikipedia wrote:Flat Earth Society
The Flat Earth Society (also known as the International Flat Earth Society or the International Flat Earth Research Society) is an organization that seeks to further the idea that the Earth is flat instead of an oblate spheroid. The modern organization was founded by Englishman Samuel Shenton in 1956[1] and was later led by Charles K. Johnson, who based the organization in his home in Lancaster, California. The formal society was inactive after JohnsonGÇÖs death in 2001 but was resurrected in 2004 by its new president Daniel Shenton.
They exist so apparently everyone was not convinced.
Personally I prefer the fight people had against the theory that the earth was the center of the universe and how they eventually proved those who believed they were right, were actually dead wrong. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2445
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:10:00 -
[54] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Are you a member of the flat earth society? ? Are you? I just ask because you both have the whole "screech loudly about how your beliefs are true because they're your beliefs" thing going on. No I thought being part of a small minority was more of a Goonswarm thing. Well that and padding your ego at the expense of the rest of the game. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
151
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:21:00 -
[55] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: They exist so apparently everyone was not convinced.
They are however crazy...... Hmm I'm seeing a trend here... Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9033
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:25:00 -
[56] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:"The evidence is so obvious I don't even have to explain it" is another common argument people who can't actually defend what they're saying like to use. Are you a member of the flat earth society? Your arguments make that much sense. So why do you believe the CSM voter numbers took a nose dive, or are you already towing the company line with "Peace-time CSM"? The flat earth hypothesis has been disproved by people who used evidence and maths in their proof. They did a good job, so now everyone accepts the world is round, but that acceptance is only because of the evidence and maths. I assume that you picked an example that so obviously counters your argument as an indirectly ironic way of conceding that mynnna is right? I do love such definitive statements from people, they so often turn out to be wrong. Wikipedia wrote:Flat Earth Society
The Flat Earth Society (also known as the International Flat Earth Society or the International Flat Earth Research Society) is an organization that seeks to further the idea that the Earth is flat instead of an oblate spheroid. The modern organization was founded by Englishman Samuel Shenton in 1956[1] and was later led by Charles K. Johnson, who based the organization in his home in Lancaster, California. The formal society was inactive after JohnsonGÇÖs death in 2001 but was resurrected in 2004 by its new president Daniel Shenton. They exist so apparently everyone was not convinced. Personally I prefer the fight people had against the theory that the earth was the center of the universe and how they eventually proved those who believed they were right, were actually dead wrong.
You realise that the FES is a troll, right? Like the Landover Baptists?
1 Kings 12:11
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Frying Doom
2446
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
You realise that the FES is a troll, right? Like the Landover Baptists?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2010/feb/23/flat-earth-society Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2446
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:Frying Doom wrote: They exist so apparently everyone was not convinced.
They are however crazy...... Hmm I'm seeing a trend here... You seem very quick to class people who believe differently to you as crazy.
Now while I will admit I do not believe in the ideas of the flat earth society, I do admire there ability to think outside the box.
But I am sure you believe that the voting was down due to it being a peace time CSM. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Temba Ronin
213
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:45:00 -
[59] - Quote
The people who did not vote made a decision to not participate, fortunately I believe we elected a CSM that will rally around making the game better.
During the election this particular threads original post writer was quite prolific in these forums and had every opportunity to persuade us, his fellow EVE players to vote for the slate of candidates he approved of, most of us who voted were not persuaded by his arguments on their behalf or their campaigns. Change is hard and being on the losing side of an election you feel strongly about is not easy. Elections have consequences, when your ideas do not prevail it usually does little good to continue to hurl unproductive rocks at the winners. Specifically it is not reasonable to state definitively that you know how the vast majority of players who did not choose to vote feel about what should happen in the game and what areas should be prioritized, making such a claim completely undermines your credibility because such a thing is unknowable.
I for one want to see players have continued and more effective input with CCP and the CSM is a proven vehicle to accomplish that. We have a new CSM and we should give them an opportunity to perform.
Power To The Players! |
Frying Doom
2446
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:The people who did not vote made a decision to not participate, fortunately I believe we elected a CSM that will rally around making the game better. But it should still be the policy of the CSM to try to get more people to vote in the following election.
Temba Ronin wrote:his fellow EVE players to vote for the slate of candidates he approved of That is why it is politics. [/quote] As to being on the losing side, actually I primarily supported the WH candidates and was happy as hell, two of them got in.
But this does not mean we should just accept a CSM or for that matter a government that is not acting in the best intrest of the game or country.
We should not just role over and play dead now that they are elected, we should express our wishes in the strongest possible terms. If nothing else just so we do not have another non-communicate, non-transparent CSM like CSM7.
Is another Null Chairman going to get more people out to vote, or a hi-sec chairman?
Yes The Mittani did a good job, but more people would have voted in CSM7 if he was part of the majority and not a minority.
Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
|
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:39:00 -
[61] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:dark heartt wrote:Frying Doom wrote: They exist so apparently everyone was not convinced.
They are however crazy...... Hmm I'm seeing a trend here... You seem very quick to class people who believe differently to you as crazy. Now while I will admit I do not believe in the ideas of the flat earth society, I do admire there ability to think outside the box. But I am sure you believe that the voting was down due to it being a peace time CSM.
I don't actually class anyone as crazy unless they reject evidence to something that has been proven completely true. I don't think anyone in this thread is crazy either (except for me, because I am replying to it).
However the fact remains that saying the earth is flat is completely insane in this day and age (and they are a troll regardless of what that tabloid says) where we know irrefutably that the Earth is round. Saying otherwise is either crazy, an attempt at publicity and becoming famous, or simply trying to be opposite to everyone else for the sake of it. There is concrete evidence to show the fact of the earth is round.
In this thread however we have two distinct sides that I don't identify with in either case. One side is defending the actions of CSM7 and you as the other side saying the actions they took lowered voter interest. Personally I don't agree with either one in the case of the election. They could have done more to put the CSM votes out there but they certainly didn't lower interest.
I actually think voting was down for a few reasons, the biggest being how confusing the new system was. It was representative of those who voted, but it turned a lot of people away with how complex it was. The other major reason is that people like Sgurd Battersea are a dime a dozen out there. Most have never heard about the CSM and those who have don't know anything about it. Some of the responsibility falls on the CSM there as mentioned before, but CCP also barely did anything to help that. A mass Evemail that a good portion of the community didn't receive. A devblog in the final hours. Why wasn't that stuff done at the start of the elections? About the only good thing was CCP going into local and spamming, and even that was too little too late.
All in all this topic is getting old for me. We all know how much you disliked CSM7 Frying. Leave it alone now, and start getting ready to run for it next year if you think you can do better. If your platform is any good I'll vote for you because people like you are good for things like this in my opinion. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
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Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1871
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2013/05/alliance-panel-csm-titles-ballots-et-al.html
Chairman. Vice-chairman. Secretary. Vice-secretary. These CSM titles mean nothing. They confer no privilege or role upon the recipient. About the only thing they're good for is creating a little drama at the start of a CSM session among the newly elected representatives. You have one person who gets a title, and another person who's ticked off that nobody (or not enough people) voted for them.
Drop the titles. Get to work. The titles, they're just head inflation devices. And some of the representatives have already been shopping at the Big Hat Warehouse for too long already. Amarr Militia - Fweddit - http://fweddit.com Poetic Discourse - http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:54:00 -
[63] - Quote
Agreed Poe Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
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Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:07:00 -
[64] - Quote
If the titles held no value, why was CSM 6 considered a success while CSM 7 clearly isn't considered one? Especially considering they shared so many common members (8 of 14)? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Temba Ronin
213
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: But it should still be the policy of the CSM to try to get more people to vote in the following election.
So do you really suspect that the last slate of almost no incumbents wanted as low a turnout of voters as possible? Your position defies both reason and logic.
Of course the candidates running for election wanted as many votes as they could get.
You sir seem to not be in touch with the fundamental fact that this is a game! ..... Getting 12% of a gaming base to vote to send other people to represent them in regard to that game is nothing to scoff at. Some people believe that disagreeable confrontation is the only way to win an argument, while others believe having the best well thought out well communicated solution is the way.
If all you can perceive is threats, and your reaction is to charge the windmills do not be surprised if it is a lonely endeavor.
I look forward to you having some substance in your points of contention in the future and not just more smoke and mirrors.
Power To The Players! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:23:00 -
[66] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:Frying Doom wrote: But it should still be the policy of the CSM to try to get more people to vote in the following election.
So do you really suspect that the last slate of almost no incumbents wanted as low a turnout of voters as possible? Your position defies both reason and logic. Of course the candidates running for election wanted as many votes as they could get. You sir seem to not be in touch with the fundamental fact that this is a game! ..... Getting 12% of a gaming base to vote to send other people to represent them in regard to that game is nothing to scoff at. Some people believe that disagreeable confrontation is the only way to win an argument, while others believe having the best well thought out well communicated solution is the way. If all you can perceive is threats, and your reaction is to charge the windmills do not be surprised if it is a lonely endeavor. I look forward to you having some substance in your points of contention in the future and not just more smoke and mirrors. Power To The Players! Yes this is a game
But 12.12% is crap game or no game and it is even more crap when you consider the fact it is 1/4 lower than last year. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:If the titles held no value, why was CSM 6 considered a success while CSM 7 clearly isn't considered one? Especially considering they shared so many common members (8 of 14)? CSM6 communicated with the player base, CSM7 did not.
Oh maybe CSM7 were hoarse from CCP cheer leading. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:32:00 -
[68] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:CSM6 communicated with the player base, CSM7 did not.
Right, and how did this come about, again remembering the large amount of shared membership? What was the main difference between the two? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1872
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:If the titles held no value, why was CSM 6 considered a success while CSM 7 clearly isn't considered one? Especially considering they shared so many common members (8 of 14)? The Mittani was the success, not the chairman title. If The Mittani had no title, he still would have done exactly as he did. The title didn't make him a better CSM representative.
Amarr Militia - Fweddit - http://fweddit.com Poetic Discourse - http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:CSM6 communicated with the player base, CSM7 did not. Right, and how did this come about, again remembering the large amount of shared membership? What was the main difference between the two? The Mittani. He does know how to communicate, just look at the state of the Goonion addresses.
Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
|
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:01:00 -
[71] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:The Mittani. He does know how to communicate, just look at the state of the Goonion addresses.
Aha, now we're getting somewhere! And what title did The Mittani hold in CSM 6 and want for CSM 7? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:11:00 -
[72] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:The Mittani. He does know how to communicate, just look at the state of the Goonion addresses.
Aha, now we're getting somewhere! And what title did The Mittani hold in CSM 6 and want for CSM 7? The title did nothing to his abilities, except for fluffing his ego.
As that is all the title is for ego, I am suggesting giving an ego boost to hi-sec players, encouraging them to be more interested in the CSM, rather than those that already act like elitists.
I think CSM7 showed that it is just a title, taken by those who wish an inflated ego. It does not make the title holder, wise, communicative or educated.
If the title goes to Null as usual, it will show that the 10 Null members on the CSM are just there for their own egos and little more. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:14:00 -
[73] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:The title did nothing to his abilities
What did his abilities do to the title? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:The title did nothing to his abilities What did his abilities do to the title? Before or after he was removed from the council? Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:18:00 -
[75] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Before or after he was removed from the council?
Well, he was only chair the one time, so before. Nice try to deflect though "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:28:00 -
[76] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Before or after he was removed from the council? Well, he was only chair the one time, so before. Nice try to deflect though Well his ability to resign/become inelligable allowed Seleene to become Chairman of CSM7, allowed the STV to be introduced and generally help land us with the worst CSM we have had in years.
If he had not held an office and been thrown off he could have still been a brilliant leader and not caused all of the above to happen. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
Suprise, an incoherent response that misses the point entirely!
The point, Frying Doom, is that the titles themselves absolutely can have value in the right hands. You of all people should understand this since you used the inverse to argue that Trebor's failure to update wiki pages or whatever while he was CSM 6 Secretary was proof that nobody should vote for him.
Poetic Stanziel wrote:The Mittani was the success, not the chairman title. If The Mittani had no title, he still would have done exactly as he did. The title didn't make him a better CSM representative.
This thread is now a petition for you to change your name to Autistic Stanziel "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Suprise, an incoherent response that misses the point entirely!
The point, Frying Doom, is that the titles themselves absolutely can have value in the right hands. You of all people should understand this since you used the inverse to argue that Trebor's failure to update wiki pages or whatever while he was CSM 6 Secretary was proof that nobody should vote for him. Yes the office does have some duties, no where does it actually say that the leader of the CSM is the chairman.
It says "The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. "
So you are looking for a good communicator, someone who communicates well and frequently with the community especially.
so Mynnna posting stats are total posts: 883 Jita Park Speakers Corner 25,48% (225 posts) Market Discussions 19,59% (173 posts) Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions 18,01% (159 posts) EVE General Discussion 12,34% (109 posts) now I will not say some of her marketing posts are not great, because they are, but all in all not a huge communicator.
Mike Azariah Total posts 209 Jita Park Speakers Corner 68,42% (143 posts) Assembly Hall 12,44% (26 posts) EVE General Discussion 7,18% (15 posts)
So not that many but when you add in the fact he is also a blogger and the fact he hosts podside, that counts a lot more.
Then you have Ripard Teg, Yes out of all of them he has the highest level of communication and personally if did not believe the CSM needed a Hi-sec chairman to communicate with the masses (Most of which are hi-sec residents), I really do believe Ripard would make an excellent communicator with the player base of new eden. Lets face it he does it already.
Malcanis has good ideas, but he is elitist to the core, Mynnna is arrogant as hell, thankfully Malcanis does not want the job, and Mynnna is ill suited. Do what is best for the CSM and the game as a whole, not just your egos. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Temba Ronin
214
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:43:00 -
[79] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: Yes this is a game
But 12.12% is crap game or no game and it is even more crap when you consider the fact it is 1/4 lower than last year.
Please enlighten me sir as to the other MMO games that have elections for player representatives annually that have a greater then 12.12% participation. While you are at it would you also let me know what percentage of participation would constitute it no longer being crap?
Sir did you take into consideration that the elections for CSM6 & CSM7 took place in the run up to national elections in the United States of America whose citizens seem to do a disproportionately larger slice of the EVE Online player voting compared to their actual percentage of voters? In both those years the USA had a highly charged political situation, and the CSM8 election took place after a national election what we call the "off year" as in a non-presidential election campaign. Quite frequently "Off Year" election turnout is considerably lower.
Sir there do exist two separate fields of endeavor which are all too often confused, political science and political punditry. Although some opinions can indeed be facts not all opinions are factually based, you sir would do well to learn the difference. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9041
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:46:00 -
[80] - Quote
He's right though, 12% is a disappointing turnout.
1 Kings 12:11
|
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9041
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Suprise, an incoherent response that misses the point entirely!
The point, Frying Doom, is that the titles themselves absolutely can have value in the right hands. You of all people should understand this since you used the inverse to argue that Trebor's failure to update wiki pages or whatever while he was CSM 6 Secretary was proof that nobody should vote for him. Yes the office does have some duties, no where does it actually say that the leader of the CSM is the chairman. It says "The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. " So you are looking for a good communicator, someone who communicates well and frequently with the community especially. so Mynnna posting stats are total posts: 883 Jita Park Speakers Corner 25,48% (225 posts) Market Discussions 19,59% (173 posts) Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions 18,01% (159 posts) EVE General Discussion 12,34% (109 posts) now I will not say some of her marketing posts are not great, because they are, but all in all not a huge communicator. Mike Azariah Total posts 209 Jita Park Speakers Corner 68,42% (143 posts) Assembly Hall 12,44% (26 posts) EVE General Discussion 7,18% (15 posts) So not that many but when you add in the fact he is also a blogger and the fact he hosts podside, that counts a lot more. Then you have Ripard Teg, Yes out of all of them he has the highest level of communication and personally if did not believe the CSM needed a Hi-sec chairman to communicate with the masses (Most of which are hi-sec residents), I really do believe Ripard would make an excellent communicator with the player base of new eden. Lets face it he does it already. Malcanis has good ideas, but he is elitist to the core, Mynnna is arrogant as hell, thankfully Malcanis does not want the job, and Mynnna is ill suited. Do what is best for the CSM and the game as a whole, not just your egos.
Mittens has 3978 posts. Obviously I'm four and a half times the communcator he is!
1 Kings 12:11
|
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
210
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:53:00 -
[82] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: The title did nothing to his abilities, except for fluffing his ego.
As that is all the title is for ego, I am suggesting giving an ego boost to hi-sec players, encouraging them to be more interested in the CSM, rather than those that already act like elitists.
I think CSM7 showed that it is just a title, taken by those who wish an inflated ego. It does not make the title holder, wise, communicative or educated.
If the title goes to Null as usual, it will show that the 10 Null members on the CSM are just there for their own egos and little more.
So according to you, if a 'null sec' member is given the title of chairman then they must be 'there for their own egos', whereas if a 'high sec' mumber is given the title then they must be some humble philanthropist taking up the burden for the good of the game?
Lay off the weed kid. "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
Temba Ronin
214
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:53:00 -
[83] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:He's right though, 12% is a disappointing turnout. It may well be a disappointing number but that would have more to do with personal expectations then empirical statistical projection.
Power To The Players! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:55:00 -
[84] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:Frying Doom wrote: Yes this is a game
But 12.12% is crap game or no game and it is even more crap when you consider the fact it is 1/4 lower than last year.
Please enlighten me sir as to the other MMO games that have elections for player representatives annually that have a greater then 12.12% participation. While you are at it would you also let me know what percentage of participation would constitute it no longer being crap? Sir did you take into consideration that the elections for CSM6 & CSM7 took place in the run up to national elections in the United States of America whose citizens seem to do a disproportionately larger slice of the EVE Online player voting compared to their actual percentage of voters? In both those years the USA had a highly charged political situation, and the CSM8 election took place after a national election what we call the "off year" as in a non-presidential election campaign. Quite frequently "Off Year" election turnout is considerably lower. Sir there do exist two separate fields of endeavor which are all too often confused, political science and political punditry. Although some opinions can indeed be facts not all opinions are factually based, you sir would do well to learn the difference. CSM 8 election United States 18894 votes 38.01% of votes 12.72% voters as % of subscribers 36.25% % of subscribers So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money
CSM 7 election United States 22114 votes 37.41% of votes 17.36% voters as % of subscribers 35.85% % of subscribers So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes.
So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote.
So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry.
A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before.
Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:58:00 -
[85] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Mittens has 3978 posts. Obviously I'm four and a half times the communcator he is!
Well you do tend to debate rather than demand. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:00:00 -
[86] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:Frying Doom wrote: The title did nothing to his abilities, except for fluffing his ego.
As that is all the title is for ego, I am suggesting giving an ego boost to hi-sec players, encouraging them to be more interested in the CSM, rather than those that already act like elitists.
I think CSM7 showed that it is just a title, taken by those who wish an inflated ego. It does not make the title holder, wise, communicative or educated.
If the title goes to Null as usual, it will show that the 10 Null members on the CSM are just there for their own egos and little more.
So according to you, if a 'null sec' member is given the title of chairman then they must be 'there for their own egos', whereas if a 'high sec' mumber is given the title then they must be some humble philanthropist taking up the burden for the good of the game? Lay off the weed kid. As I have said before a Hi-sec chairman will do more to engage the player base than a Null sec one will, and so far I have only heard talk of 2 people for the chairman ship, one is purely for ego and the other just thinks it is his god given right.
Maybe others will step forward but would they be able to garner the amount of good will a hi-sec chairman would, very unlikely. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Temba Ronin
215
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:03:00 -
[87] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Temba Ronin wrote:Frying Doom wrote: Yes this is a game
But 12.12% is crap game or no game and it is even more crap when you consider the fact it is 1/4 lower than last year.
Please enlighten me sir as to the other MMO games that have elections for player representatives annually that have a greater then 12.12% participation. While you are at it would you also let me know what percentage of participation would constitute it no longer being crap? Sir did you take into consideration that the elections for CSM6 & CSM7 took place in the run up to national elections in the United States of America whose citizens seem to do a disproportionately larger slice of the EVE Online player voting compared to their actual percentage of voters? In both those years the USA had a highly charged political situation, and the CSM8 election took place after a national election what we call the "off year" as in a non-presidential election campaign. Quite frequently "Off Year" election turnout is considerably lower. Sir there do exist two separate fields of endeavor which are all too often confused, political science and political punditry. Although some opinions can indeed be facts not all opinions are factually based, you sir would do well to learn the difference. CSM 8 election United States 18894 votes 38.01% of votes 12.72% voters as % of subscribers 36.25% % of subscribers So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money CSM 7 election United States 22114 votes 37.41% of votes 17.36% voters as % of subscribers 35.85% % of subscribers So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes. So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote. So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before. So a crap election would be 98% voting participation if the previous year had a 99% level ..... I see the basis of your well staked out position. You sir are simply incorrect by any objective standard.
Power To The Players! |
Temba Ronin
215
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:11:00 -
[88] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:CSM 8 election United States 18894 votes 38.01% of votes 12.72% voters as % of subscribers 36.25% % of subscribers So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money CSM 7 election United States 22114 votes 37.41% of votes 17.36% voters as % of subscribers 35.85% % of subscribers So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes. So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote. So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before. Sir could you please share your analysis for the CSM6 election as well .... unless of course it does not support the position you have taken .... then you can just continue to pretend I was only speaking of two elections and not three.
Power To The Players! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:So a crap election would be 98% voting participation if the previous year had a 99% level ..... I see the basis of your well staked out position. You sir are simply incorrect by any objective standard. Power To The Players! I believe that is refereed to as reductio ad absurdum.
There is a point where a minor drop is of no consequence, but if an election got 99% in one year and then got 75% on the next year, yes that would be bad or for that matter got 16.83% one year and 15.83% the next that is a minor drop. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:Frying Doom wrote:CSM 8 election United States 18894 votes 38.01% of votes 12.72% voters as % of subscribers 36.25% % of subscribers So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money CSM 7 election United States 22114 votes 37.41% of votes 17.36% voters as % of subscribers 35.85% % of subscribers So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes. So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote. So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before. Sir could you please share your analysis for the CSM6 election as well .... unless of course it does not support the position you have taken .... then you can just continue to pretend I was only speaking of two elections and not three.Power To The Players! CSM8 election, CSM7 Election, CSM6 election.
Last time I looked 1+1+1=3
Maybe you have different maths in la la land. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
|
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
210
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:17:00 -
[91] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: As I have said before a Hi-sec chairman will do more to engage the player base than a Null sec one will, and so far I have only heard talk of 2 people for the chairman ship, one is purely for ego and the other just thinks it is his god given right.
Maybe others will step forward but would they be able to garner the amount of good will a hi-sec chairman would, very unlikely.
But this is you talking out of your anus. You have no justification for why these two are there for their own egos other than 'because I said so lol'. Likewise you claim a highsec chairman would be able to garner more goodwill than an evil nullsec one and engage the playerbase better simply because that is your opinion, rather than basing your arguements on fact.
To quote you from another thread:
Frying Doom wrote: Subsequently why I would like the chairman chosen for the PR value for the CSM, rather than just someones ego.
That is fair enough; however at no point have you explained with reasons based in reality why a highsec candidate would be better at this than a nullsec one. All you've done in this thread is try to drown out everyone else by shouting "HERP DERP NULLSEC R BAD HISEC GUD" repeatedly. "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:20:00 -
[92] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:Frying Doom wrote: As I have said before a Hi-sec chairman will do more to engage the player base than a Null sec one will, and so far I have only heard talk of 2 people for the chairman ship, one is purely for ego and the other just thinks it is his god given right.
Maybe others will step forward but would they be able to garner the amount of good will a hi-sec chairman would, very unlikely.
But this is you talking out of your anus. You have no justification for why these two are there for their own egos other than 'because I said so lol'. Likewise you claim a highsec chairman would be able to garner more goodwill than an evil nullsec one and engage the playerbase better simply because that is your opinion, rather than basing your arguements on fact. To quote you from another thread: Frying Doom wrote: Subsequently why I would like the chairman chosen for the PR value for the CSM, rather than just someones ego.
That is fair enough; however at no point have you explained with reasons based in reality why a highsec candidate would be better at this than a nullsec one. All you've done in this thread is try to drown out everyone else by shouting "HERP DERP NULLSEC R BAD HISEC GUD" repeatedly. At this point maybe you would like to go back to the CSM 8 voting threads and look at the people saying they cant be bothered voting for a self serving null CSM. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
211
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:28:00 -
[93] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: At this point maybe you would like to go back to the CSM 8 voting threads and look at the people saying they cant be bothered voting for a self serving null CSM.
I can assure you we had more people on our forums going 'holy ****, how can Trebor be that pants on head ******** and yet not accidentally set himself on fire' after the last set of minutes were released. "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:36:00 -
[94] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:Frying Doom wrote: At this point maybe you would like to go back to the CSM 8 voting threads and look at the people saying they cant be bothered voting for a self serving null CSM.
I can assure you we had more people on our forums going 'holy ****, how can Trebor be that pants on head ******** and yet not accidentally set himself on fire' after the last set of minutes were released. Ok
I will admit, every once in a while someone does say something as funny as hell.
Thank you Sir for the laugh. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Temba Ronin
215
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:42:00 -
[95] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Temba Ronin wrote:Frying Doom wrote:CSM 8 election United States 18894 votes 38.01% of votes 12.72% voters as % of subscribers 36.25% % of subscribers So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money CSM 7 election United States 22114 votes 37.41% of votes 17.36% voters as % of subscribers 35.85% % of subscribers So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes. So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote. So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before. Sir could you please share your analysis for the CSM6 election as well .... unless of course it does not support the position you have taken .... then you can just continue to pretend I was only speaking of two elections and not three.Power To The Players! CSM8 election, CSM7 Election, CSM6 election. Last time I looked 1+1+1=3 Maybe you have different maths in la la land. Perhaps we do, however you purposely omitted the vote count because it clearly supports the conclusion pointed to in my political punditry. I proposed that the political situation may have been a factor and the typical waxing and waning of voter participation could be projected in conjunction with normal Off Year & ramp up to national elections in the USA.
CSM6 17,766 Americans vote in a ramp up year, CSM7 22,114 Americans vote in National election year, CSM8 18,894 Americans vote in the Off Year ramp down. We have this concept in la la land called a bell curve perhaps you've heard of it?
Well seems like my political punditry is validated by political science ..... & math.
As I told you earlier ...... Although some opinions can indeed be facts not all opinions are factually based, you sir would do well to learn the difference.
Power To The Players! |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
211
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:42:00 -
[96] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Arkon Olacar wrote:Frying Doom wrote: At this point maybe you would like to go back to the CSM 8 voting threads and look at the people saying they cant be bothered voting for a self serving null CSM.
I can assure you we had more people on our forums going 'holy ****, how can Trebor be that pants on head ******** and yet not accidentally set himself on fire' after the last set of minutes were released. Ok I will admit, every once in a while someone does say something as funny as hell. Thank you Sir for the laugh. No problem :)
But my point still stands: the chairman would need to engage with the whole playerbase - or at least the playerbase who keeps half an eye on whats going on - and just because a tiny handful of highsec players who believe these great sweeping tabloidesque stereotypes of the nullsec playerbase don't want 1 of the 10 nullsec CSM members to be chairman, doesn't mean their opinion represents the best for the CSM.
To be honest, we both know who would gain the most approval from the entire playerbase, and he has already ruled himself out of contention. "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
Frying Doom
2448
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 13:05:00 -
[97] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote: No problem :)
But my point still stands: the chairman would need to engage with the whole playerbase - or at least the playerbase who keeps half an eye on whats going on - and just because a tiny handful of highsec players who believe these great sweeping tabloidesque stereotypes of the nullsec playerbase don't want 1 of the 10 nullsec CSM members to be chairman, doesn't mean their opinion represents the best for the CSM.
To be honest, we both know who would gain the most approval from the entire playerbase, and he has already ruled himself out of contention.
Yes I will admit we could do with another of him.
A great communicator with a back bone. If he was from Hi-sec the better that would be because they would listen more if he was of their kind.
The biggest problem the CSM faces is its image among the playerbase. The fact that CCP decided to come out all for CSM 7, really did not help, they were viewed as CCP sell outs by some and just another bunch of Null sec players by others. If they had come out with a Dev blog like that as well as everything else they did after CSM6, this would be a whole different ball game.
Now as to why I am suggesting the chairman be from Hi-sec, is due to the fact it is now a communication role, not a leadership role. It is wholly possible to not be the chairman and still be the leader of the CSM.
The CSM needs to evolve beyond what it was where the chairman was just for ego and chose the person most likely to be able to communicate effectively with the population of the game as well as CCP.
Mynnna is a great thinker, so is Malcanis, I will admit I know little about a number of the Null candidates as they have rarely been on these forums. As to Ripard, I would love to see someone who writes so much be the Secretary, This position needs some love, CSM7 did nothing, the What is the CSM page is years out of date, there is so much in the Wiki hat needs fixing, and who better than the machine that is Ripard Teg.
If I was doing this as a crusade for myself I would be advocating James Arget, wormhole guy and frankly his Crossing Zebras interview blew me away but I do not argue this for my own benefit but for that of the CSM.
If there was another Mittani, yes make him chairman in a second, as I said even better if he was from Hi-sec, but alas there is no CSM8 member like that. So they should chose a chair-man that will communicate with the majority of EvE, and then chose a leader (should they deem this as necessary, after all it might be necessary for them each to lead one project)
CSM8 has a hard time regaining the voters that have been lost, first there is the disaster that was CSM 7 and then the fact they need to concentrate on that horrible wound in EvE called Null. Even with the new CCP process of working on all sorts of bits all over eve, they will need to push for Null fixes. So they will be perceived as just another Null lobby group.
I personally am glad we have people like Ripard Teg, Mynnna, Malcanis, Ali Aras, Chitsa Jason and James Arget on the CSM but I think someone from Hi-sec would raise both the standing and the PR value of the CSM in the eyes of the players. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
624
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 13:17:00 -
[98] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: So you are looking for a good communicator, someone who communicates well and frequently with the community especially.
so Mynnna posting stats are total posts: 883 Jita Park Speakers Corner 25,48% (225 posts) Market Discussions 19,59% (173 posts) Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions 18,01% (159 posts) EVE General Discussion 12,34% (109 posts) now I will not say some of her marketing posts are not great, because they are, but all in all not a huge communicator.
in addition to everything that's wrong that you've posted (all of it) mynnna usually posted on Corestwo on eveo before he ran for csm. |
Frying Doom
2448
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 13:19:00 -
[99] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote: in addition to everything that's wrong that you've posted (all of it) mynnna usually posted on Corestwo on eveo before he ran for csm.
Corestwo
Total Posts:1661 Market Discussions 55,63% (924 posts) EVE General Discussion 13,73% (228 posts) Sell Orders 11,14% (185 posts)
So Still mostly marketing posts, Not posts in here and few in General. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Temba Ronin
215
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 13:42:00 -
[100] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:
CSM8 has a hard time regaining the voters that have been lost, first there is the disaster that was CSM 7
You continually state your opinion as if because you said it it must be so, .... sorry to burst your bubble but the facts do not support you.
The average voter participation in the past 3 CSM elections was 14.33% The highest percentage was 16.63% The lowest percentage was 12.12% the highest about two and one half percent above the average the lowest about two and one half percent below the average
Although I've spoken to some factors that probably had an impact on voter participation, one would be negligent to not consider the field of candidates that ran and how the campaign was conducted.
I would propose that several of the leading candidates presented themselves very well to the interested voters without throwing rocks at their opponents. I suspect many of them felt like we had a good batch to pick from and the obvious loons were ... well obvious loons.
This was made possible by the fact that CSM7 had washed itself clean of most of the drama and worked to get things done. The feeling that we needed revolution to get CCP back on track no longer existed. Players were enjoying the game, the new ships, the expansion upgrades and the crisis had subsided.
Now I say these things as my observations because many other factors can be considered, if you want to be taken seriously and leave the realm of wild eyed rock thrower you might consider being less absolutist in your statements that are easily disproven.
Power To The Players! |
|
Frying Doom
2449
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 14:04:00 -
[101] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:Frying Doom wrote:
CSM8 has a hard time regaining the voters that have been lost, first there is the disaster that was CSM 7
You continually state your opinion as if because you said it it must be so, .... sorry to burst your bubble but the facts do not support you. The average voter participation in the past 3 CSM elections was 14.33% The highest percentage was 16.63% The lowest percentage was 12.12% the highest about two and one half percent above the average the lowest about two and one half percent below the average Nice figures why not answer these 2 simple questions. Before this elections which way was the trend of percentage of total player base who voted, going? What did this election do to that trend?
Temba Ronin wrote:This was made possible by the fact that CSM7 had washed itself clean of most of the drama and worked to get things done. The feeling that we needed revolution to get CCP back on track no longer existed. Players were enjoying the game, the new ships, the expansion upgrades and the crisis had subsided. We did not need revolution we needed we needed communication and transparency.
It comes down to this - I'd like at least one full term where everything works the way it is supposed to in terms of communication and feedback. - Seleene CSM 6
I've been pushing for more effort here since I got on the CSM almost 2 years ago. I am seriously concerned about the lack of transparency (both to CSM and to the players) being demonstrated by CCP -- quite frankly, using "that's a security issue, we won't talk about it" as an excuse is a load of crap. - Trebor CSM6
I intend to go ahead with my priorities and to make CSM 7 much more open and transparent to the community, which I think was one of the major mistakes of CSM 6. - Two Step CSM 7
They got the communication and transparency from CCP, they just seemed to forget about communication and transparency to the player base. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
624
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 14:15:00 -
[102] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote: in addition to everything that's wrong that you've posted (all of it) mynnna usually posted on Corestwo on eveo before he ran for csm.
Corestwo Total Posts:1661 Market Discussions 55,63% (924 posts) EVE General Discussion 13,73% (228 posts) Sell Orders 11,14% (185 posts) So Still mostly marketing posts, Not posts in here and few in General. please be clear i did not mean to endorse your incredibly dumb metric for good communicator i just wished to note you were making a basic, obvious factual error
you post oodles in jita park yet i feel confident everyone who was elected to the CSM will agree with me you are a horrible communicator, would be a horrible csm rep, and would be an especially horrible csm officer |
Frying Doom
2449
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 14:21:00 -
[103] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Frying Doom wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote: in addition to everything that's wrong that you've posted (all of it) mynnna usually posted on Corestwo on eveo before he ran for csm.
Corestwo Total Posts:1661 Market Discussions 55,63% (924 posts) EVE General Discussion 13,73% (228 posts) Sell Orders 11,14% (185 posts) So Still mostly marketing posts, Not posts in here and few in General. please be clear i did not mean to endorse your incredibly dumb metric for good communicator i just wished to note you were making a basic, obvious factual error you post oodles in jita park yet i feel confident everyone who was elected to the CSM will agree with me you are a horrible communicator, would be a horrible csm rep, and would be an especially horrible csm officer Considering it is rare for you to compliment anyone not from goonswarm and even rarer for you to compliment anyone not from Null. I will take your opinion as a compliment.
As all I have ever seen you post is what you believe would be good for Goonswarm and Null, never about what would be good for the game. So if you thought highly of me, well there is a disgusting thought. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Temba Ronin
216
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 14:22:00 -
[104] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Temba Ronin wrote:Frying Doom wrote:
CSM8 has a hard time regaining the voters that have been lost, first there is the disaster that was CSM 7
You continually state your opinion as if because you said it it must be so, .... sorry to burst your bubble but the facts do not support you. The average voter participation in the past 3 CSM elections was 14.33% The highest percentage was 16.63% The lowest percentage was 12.12% the highest about two and one half percent above the average the lowest about two and one half percent below the average Nice figures why not answer these 2 simple questions. Before this elections which way was the trend of percentage of total player base who voted, going? What did this election do to that trend? Easy to answer those two questions. #1 .... From the numbers i have seen the voting has been trending up, of course only an idiot would assume that would never change.
#2 .... From the numbers i have seen this last election seems to be within the realm of a typical election with no fire breathing candidate and no hot button polarizing issue to push voter turnout up like in the previous election.
Of course i've mentioned numerous other factors but you are looking for someone to blame instead of something to learn so perhaps you are incapable of grasping the total picture.
Power To The Players! |
Frying Doom
2449
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 14:32:00 -
[105] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote: #2 .... From the numbers i have seen this last election seems to be within the realm of a typical election with no fire breathing candidate and no hot button polarizing issue to push voter turnout up like in the previous election.
So then you have the data on this other election that contained " no fire breathing candidate and no hot button polarizing issue to push voter turnout up"
Which election was this.
Also, yes your other factors like USA elections that seem to have made no difference to voter turn out. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Temba Ronin
216
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 14:49:00 -
[106] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Temba Ronin wrote: #2 .... From the numbers i have seen this last election seems to be within the realm of a typical election with no fire breathing candidate and no hot button polarizing issue to push voter turnout up like in the previous election.
So then you have the data on this other election that contained " no fire breathing candidate and no hot button polarizing issue to push voter turnout up" Which election was this. Also, yes your other factors like USA elections that seem to have made no difference to voter turn out. Well sir if you think fewer voters from the USA seem to have made no difference you are either intellectually challenged or just another dishonest troll. You so desperately want to be right you have no tolerance for facts that do not support your seemingly half baked conclusions. I predicted a reduction in the number of Americans voters and you tried to omit the raw vote numbers that proved my point.
You have no facts that are consistent, you contradict yourself, and your numerous poorly crafted forum posts undermine one of the basic premises of this your latest thread rant, that a lot of posting makes for a good communicator. You sir by your very existence disprove your theory.
I sincerely hope you post with an open mind in the future, lots can be learned if you are honest and don't know it all already.
Power To The Players |
Gelatine
EverBroke Geeks
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 15:02:00 -
[107] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:The biggest problem the CSM faces is its image among the playerbase. The fact that CCP decided to come out all for CSM 7, really did not help, they were viewed as CCP sell outs by some and just another bunch of Null sec players by others. If they had come out with a Dev blog like that as well as everything else they did after CSM6, this would be a whole different ball game.
I wonder what percentage of high sec players who bother to post on these forums - it wouldn't surprise me if it was less than 12% of all players. I put it to you that of the 88 percent of players who didn't vote in the CSM elections, the majority are satisfied with the work that the CSM do or just not concerned with voting in a game where they are supposed to be ubermensh (as ubermensh wouldn't spend time voting anyway.) Of course that's a baseless claim; just as baseless as your claims. |
Prince Kobol
728
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 15:17:00 -
[108] - Quote
Gelatine wrote:Frying Doom wrote:The biggest problem the CSM faces is its image among the playerbase. The fact that CCP decided to come out all for CSM 7, really did not help, they were viewed as CCP sell outs by some and just another bunch of Null sec players by others. If they had come out with a Dev blog like that as well as everything else they did after CSM6, this would be a whole different ball game. I wonder what percentage of high sec players who bother to post on these forums - it wouldn't surprise me if it was less than 12% of all players. I put it to you that of the 88 percent of players who didn't vote in the CSM elections, the majority are satisfied with the work that the CSM do or just not concerned with voting in a game where they are supposed to be ubermensh (as ubermensh wouldn't spend time voting anyway.) Of course that's a baseless claim; just as baseless as your claims.
Most people I have spoken to and a lot of posts on the forums consider the CSM full of people null sec peeps who couldn't give a toss about HS sec other then to nerf the hell out of it and see it burn in fire.
They also consider the CSM to be nothing more then a PR stunt to make CCP look good and that they have zero effect on the development of Eve.
For me I do not care where the Chairman plays the game, whether it be HS, Low Sec, Null, WH.
What is important to me is communication.. basically do the the opposite of Seleene and consider that every change regardless where it is made effects the whole game. |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1187
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 17:45:00 -
[109] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:The biggest problem the CSM faces is its image among the playerbase. The fact that CCP decided to come out all for CSM 7, really did not help, they were viewed as CCP sell outs by some and just another bunch of Null sec players by others. If they had come out with a Dev blog like that as well as everything else they did after CSM6, this would be a whole different ball game.
...
CSM8 has a hard time regaining the voters that have been lost, first there is the disaster that was CSM 7. you went from "The CSM is irrelevant because CCP never says anything about them" to "CSM7 are sellouts because CCP is crediting them for their work." But only because it's CSM7, CSM6 that would have made sense and been fine.
Frying Doom showing his bias.
"disaster that was CSM7" That would be Frying Doom showing his character age. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1286
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 19:12:00 -
[110] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:"disaster that was CSM7" That would be Frying Doom showing his character age.
Right up there with "years of null sec lobby groups" I would imagine. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
|
June Ting
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 19:39:00 -
[111] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:CSM8 has a hard time regaining the voters that have been lost, first there is the disaster that was CSM 7 and then the fact they need to concentrate on that horrible wound in EvE called Null. Even with the new CCP process of working on all sorts of bits all over eve, they will need to push for Null fixes. So they will be perceived as just another Null lobby group.
I personally am glad we have people like Ripard Teg, Mynnna, Malcanis, Ali Aras, Chitsa Jason and James Arget on the CSM but I think someone from Hi-sec would raise both the standing and the PR value of the CSM in the eyes of the players. Uhh have you forgotten about Mike Azariah? Proud independent player and member of Provibloc. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1286
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 19:44:00 -
[112] - Quote
June Ting wrote:Uhh have you forgotten about Mike Azariah?
This entire thread started with him saying Mike Azariah should be CSM 8 chair, though based only on his living in highsec. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2455
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 23:00:00 -
[113] - Quote
June Ting wrote:Frying Doom wrote:CSM8 has a hard time regaining the voters that have been lost, first there is the disaster that was CSM 7 and then the fact they need to concentrate on that horrible wound in EvE called Null. Even with the new CCP process of working on all sorts of bits all over eve, they will need to push for Null fixes. So they will be perceived as just another Null lobby group.
I personally am glad we have people like Ripard Teg, Mynnna, Malcanis, Ali Aras, Chitsa Jason and James Arget on the CSM but I think someone from Hi-sec would raise both the standing and the PR value of the CSM in the eyes of the players. Uhh have you forgotten about Mike Azariah? No I listed the Null people I was happy to have on the CSM but not be chairman.
I also missed Mangala Solaris, another Hi-sec member who would be a good PR chairman.
Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2455
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 23:03:00 -
[114] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Frying Doom wrote:The biggest problem the CSM faces is its image among the playerbase. The fact that CCP decided to come out all for CSM 7, really did not help, they were viewed as CCP sell outs by some and just another bunch of Null sec players by others. If they had come out with a Dev blog like that as well as everything else they did after CSM6, this would be a whole different ball game.
...
CSM8 has a hard time regaining the voters that have been lost, first there is the disaster that was CSM 7. you went from "The CSM is irrelevant because CCP never says anything about them" to "CSM7 are sellouts because CCP is crediting them for their work." But only because it's CSM7, CSM6 that would have made sense and been fine. Frying Doom showing his bias. "disaster that was CSM7" That would be Frying Doom showing his character age. No I went right from Showing that CSM Members were bitching about lack of communication and transparency, to CSM7 being sell outs, who communicated little wth the playerbase and were as transparent as bricks.
Or would you like to tell me who besides yourself, Two Step and Trebor actually supported the STV, to prove me wrong? Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2455
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 23:05:00 -
[115] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:June Ting wrote:Uhh have you forgotten about Mike Azariah? This entire thread started with him saying Mike Azariah should be CSM 8 chair, though based only on his living in highsec. Actually No, when I started this thread I was living in Null and with my alts in WHs.
So sorry no cigar for you. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
None ofthe Above
549
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 23:31:00 -
[116] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Snow Axe wrote:June Ting wrote:Uhh have you forgotten about Mike Azariah? This entire thread started with him saying Mike Azariah should be CSM 8 chair, though based only on his living in highsec. Actually No, when I started this thread I was living in Null and with my alts in WHs. So sorry no cigar for you.
Dah he wasn't talking about you... oh hell... nevermind. Sheesh. I hope you voted, you glorious but often apathetic bastards! STV working as intended; Pre-elections and Get out the Vote, room for improvement. |
Frying Doom
2456
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 23:33:00 -
[117] - Quote
CSM6 17,766 Americans vote in a ramp up year, 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote. CSM7 22,114 Americans vote in National election year, 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes. CSM8 18,894 Americans vote in the Off Year ramp down.36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes [/quote] Lets break this down for you by the difference in % of votes to % of accounts. CSM6 -0.69% CSM7 1.56% CSM8 1.76%
So yes less people from the USA (compared to total subscriber population) voted in CSM5, but the highest difference was actually in CSM8. So making your bell curve idea, based on USA voting in RL total crap. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Temba Ronin
218
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 00:51:00 -
[118] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:CSM6 17,766 Americans vote in a ramp up year, 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote. CSM7 22,114 Americans vote in National election year, 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes. CSM8 18,894 Americans vote in the Off Year ramp down.36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes Lets break this down for you by the difference in % of votes to % of accounts. CSM6 -0.69% CSM7 1.56% CSM8 1.76%
So yes less people from the USA (compared to total subscriber population) voted in CSM5, but the highest difference was actually in CSM8. So making your bell curve idea, based on USA voting in RL total crap.[/quote]
This is what i said earlier .... Sir did you take into consideration that the elections for CSM6 & CSM7 took place in the run up to national elections in the United States of America whose citizens seem to do a disproportionately larger slice of the EVE Online player voting compared to their actual percentage of voters? In both those years the USA had a highly charged political situation, and the CSM8 election took place after a national election what we call the "off year" as in a non-presidential election campaign. Quite frequently "Off Year" election turnout is considerably lower. .....
But perhaps i can make it simpler so you stop trying to find percentages that make you think your point is still valid ..... voting increases as we come into a national election cycle ..... CSM6 has the low end of the number of American voters of the three election cycles we are discussing ...... CSM7 has the high end of the number of American voters of the three election cycles we are discussing again consistent with my hypothesis CSM8 has a reduced number of American voters, again still consistent with my hypothesis
Is that simple enough for you to understand? Or is anything you don't understand total crap?
But let's take a look at the one of the component parts of the argument you present, CSM7 was supposedly so terrible it made for crap election results because of the smaller percentage of voters that participated, which might mean if CSM9 election voter participation ticks back up and is not in the range you define as crap results, then the results of the current crap election and the CSM8 who is not even seated yet will have created a good election result right?
So if they produce a non-crap election result what will you have to whine about? Now let's hear some more contradictory comments about being transparent and communicative and how you have defined what they should be, and who they should be. Just try to not step on your own tongue so much, although it is quite entertaining to read as you tie yourself in knots.
Power To The Players! |
Frying Doom
2458
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 04:45:00 -
[119] - Quote
Try reading the pecentages
CSM6 17,766 Americans vote in a ramp up year, 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote. CSM7 22,114 Americans vote in National election year, 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes. CSM8 18,894 Americans vote in the Off Year ramp down.36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes
Oh I forgot the education system in the USA suck.
Ok first go to Mexico and learn mathematics, then read the percentages.
Bold writing does not make you right by the way.
But yes I know you have to follow the normal, null sec script like so many others. Otherwise people will actually talk about the fact that a Null chairman is just another ego boost over the good of the CSM. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2357
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 05:31:00 -
[120] - Quote
I propose I be be made Maximum CSM for Life!! I'll sort out the new folks, see who looks to be the most mining friendly and bring in folks like Alex and Hans as needed to get this whole CSM working like it needs to be!
I'll ask CCP to have a Gulfstream biz jet on call for us so we cool kids can go to Iceland as we see fit to school CCP when they step out and when we aren't delivering Eve and Dust awesome we'll use the jet to make sure we all have enough Nonnis to understand how to evolve Eve and Dust.
Seriously, let CSM 8 decide how be to be awesome on their own!! That is my recommendation (OK, I would prefer CSM for life and a biz jet but I'm happy with CSM 8 blowing me away with awesome!)
Let the new fols find their way, you will be very happy with them I bet if you do!!
Issler
(CCP please get consider a biz jet for CSM 7 Nonnis trips!!! We will love you for life!!) |
|
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1192
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 05:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:I propose I be be made Maximum CSM for Life!! I'll sort out the new folks, see who looks to be the most mining friendly and bring in folks like Alex and Hans as needed to get this whole CSM working like it needs to be!
I'll ask CCP to have a Gulfstream biz jet on call for us so we cool kids can go to Iceland as we see fit to school CCP when they step out and when we aren't delivering Eve and Dust awesome we'll use the jet to make sure we all have enough Nonnis to understand how to evolve Eve and Dust.
Seriously, let CSM 8 decide how be to be awesome on their own!! That is my recommendation (OK, I would prefer CSM for life and a biz jet but I'm happy with CSM 8 blowing me away with awesome!)
Let the new fols find their way, you will be very happy with them I bet if you do!!
Issler
(CCP please get consider a biz jet for CSM 7 Nonnis trips!!! We will love you for life!!) Supporting election reform was worth it to fly to the Blue Lagoon in a helicopter. Ballinnnnnn! "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep
161
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 07:06:00 -
[122] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:I propose I be be made Maximum CSM for Life!! I'll sort out the new folks, see who looks to be the most mining friendly and bring in folks like Alex and Hans as needed to get this whole CSM working like it needs to be!
I'll ask CCP to have a Gulfstream biz jet on call for us so we cool kids can go to Iceland as we see fit to school CCP when they step out and when we aren't delivering Eve and Dust awesome we'll use the jet to make sure we all have enough Nonnis to understand how to evolve Eve and Dust.
Seriously, let CSM 8 decide how be to be awesome on their own!! That is my recommendation (OK, I would prefer CSM for life and a biz jet but I'm happy with CSM 8 blowing me away with awesome!)
Let the new fols find their way, you will be very happy with them I bet if you do!!
Issler
(CCP please get consider a biz jet for CSM 7 Nonnis trips!!! We will love you for life!!) Supporting election reform was worth it to fly to the Blue Lagoon in a helicopter. Ballinnnnnn!
You sold out? Let me just batphone frying doom into this. I'm sure he'll have something disparaging and biased to say. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
|
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 09:10:00 -
[123] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:I propose I be be made Maximum CSM for Life!! I'll sort out the new folks, see who looks to be the most mining friendly and bring in folks like Alex and Hans as needed to get this whole CSM working like it needs to be!
I'll ask CCP to have a Gulfstream biz jet on call for us so we cool kids can go to Iceland as we see fit to school CCP when they step out and when we aren't delivering Eve and Dust awesome we'll use the jet to make sure we all have enough Nonnis to understand how to evolve Eve and Dust.
Seriously, let CSM 8 decide how be to be awesome on their own!! That is my recommendation (OK, I would prefer CSM for life and a biz jet but I'm happy with CSM 8 blowing me away with awesome!)
Let the new fols find their way, you will be very happy with them I bet if you do!!
Issler
(CCP please get consider a biz jet for CSM 7 Nonnis trips!!! We will love you for life!!) Supporting election reform was worth it to fly to the Blue Lagoon in a helicopter. Ballinnnnnn! You sold out? Let me just batphone frying doom into this. I'm sure he'll have something disparaging and biased to say. The CSM deserve the best.
So a Gulfstream, all I can say is not good enough. A Helicopter flight to the blue lagoon, no way near sufficient.
We expect the best, so CCP should give the best, Matchbox aircraft are the way to go.
Especially after the wonderful voting reform Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
985
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 19:17:00 -
[124] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Oh and I already knew he was one of the 3 that supported the STV system. They claim it was a majority decision but only 3 people actually owned up to supporting it, and they wont actually say who else did, frankly it smells like a pile of **** to me.
I was struggling to create an analogy to express this idea, but it was too odd and convoluted, so I'll drop it and say it straight: The fact that only a handful of CSM7 members deigned to respond to your demands for information is not proof of a CCP conspiracy to go against the wishes of the CSM7, or a conspiracy by those CSM7 members to railroad the change through over the opposition of the rest of the CSM7 and/or CCP, or whatever you think it is. It is, in fact, proof of nothing but your absolute irrelevance, of the complete and total lack of power you have. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
802
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 19:39:00 -
[125] - Quote
:grainybasketballvideo: |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
987
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 19:47:00 -
[126] - Quote
And before you ask and wonder why I seem so happy to respond to you, from which one could draw the conclusion that you do have "power" over me: It's because I take great pleasure in egging you on and drawing your insanity out for more and more people to see.
Now, to some people, I would have just given up the game. They'd have realized that quite a lot of people regard them as nuts, and perhaps take a step back, moderate their posting, maybe even stop posting entirely.
But not you. Oh, no. You are so convinced of your genius, so convinced of your very rightness that you'll just keep on posting, keep on generating entertainment for the rest of us. I'm not sure if you're American or not, but for the Americans out there, it's very much akin to Glenn Beck and all the advertisers he lost in the wake of... well, we'll avoid the name for it because it's rather inappropriate, but suffice it to say the tl;dr for anyone unaware he's a radio show host who said a lot of rather inappropriate things on air about a woman named Sandra Fluke, and so lost a lot of ad deals as a result. Did the loss of the hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars worth of ad deals over his words and actions stop him? Nope, he just kept going right on, kept saying insane things.
Now to the very great shame of the US, this man still wields an absurd amount of power, in his own way. But the point I'm getting at is that some people just can't help themselves. You are one of them. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
None ofthe Above
550
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 20:16:00 -
[127] - Quote
mynnna wrote:And before you ask and wonder why I seem so happy to respond to you, from which one could draw the conclusion that you do have "power" over me: It's because I take great pleasure in egging you on and drawing your insanity out for more and more people to see. Now, to some people, I would have just given up the game. They'd have realized that quite a lot of people regard them as nuts, and perhaps take a step back, moderate their posting, maybe even stop posting entirely. But not you. Oh, no. You are so convinced of your genius, so convinced of your very rightness that you'll just keep on posting, keep on generating entertainment for the rest of us. I'm not sure if you're American or not, but for the Americans out there, it's very much akin to Glenn Beck and all the advertisers he lost in the wake of... well, we'll avoid the name for it because it's rather inappropriate, but suffice it to say the tl;dr for anyone unaware he's a radio show host who said a lot of rather inappropriate things on air about a woman named Sandra Fluke, and so lost a lot of ad deals as a result. Did the loss of the hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars worth of ad deals over his words and actions stop him? Nope, he just kept going right on, kept saying insane things. Now to the very great shame of the US, this man still wields an absurd amount of power, in his own way, which is rather more than you can say. But the point I'm getting at is that some people just can't help themselves. You are one of them.
Ah but according to Alekseyev Karrde, Poe is Glen Beck and Frying is Orly Taitz:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2960269#post2960269
Not sure what that make me... I guess I'll just have to settle for being None ofthe Above. I hope you voted, you glorious but often apathetic bastards! STV working as intended; Pre-elections and Get out the Vote, room for improvement. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
989
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 20:21:00 -
[128] - Quote
Look it's an analogy okay. I wasn't saying he was literally Glenn Beck.
You're too sane and well spoken to be any right-wing pundit, even if I disagree with you on occasion. Maybe we'll pretend you're Rachel Maddow or something instead. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
None ofthe Above
550
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 20:42:00 -
[129] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Look it's an analogy okay. I wasn't saying he was literally Glenn Beck. You're too sane and well spoken to be any right-wing pundit, even if I disagree with you on occasion. Maybe we'll pretend you're Rachel Maddow or something instead.
Dawww, make me blush. A compliment? Wait... there's a goon sneaking up behind me isn't there? I hope you voted, you glorious but often apathetic bastards! STV working as intended; Pre-elections and Get out the Vote, room for improvement. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
193
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 22:44:00 -
[130] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:mynnna wrote:Look it's an analogy okay. I wasn't saying he was literally Glenn Beck. You're too sane and well spoken to be any right-wing pundit, even if I disagree with you on occasion. Maybe we'll pretend you're Rachel Maddow or something instead. Dawww, make me blush. A compliment? Wait... there's a goon sneaking up behind me isn't there? It's a recruitment attempt. Just like the Royal Navy.
They don't call it "press gang", rather "press office / PR", but that changes nothing.
Beware of the Goon!
Best wishes, -(apparently a discount-goon) |
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Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 23:26:00 -
[131] - Quote
mynnna wrote:And before you ask and wonder why I seem so happy to respond to you, from which one could draw the conclusion that you do have "power" over me: It's because I take great pleasure in egging you on and drawing your insanity out for more and more people to see. Now, to some people, I would have just given up the game. They'd have realized that quite a lot of people regard them as nuts, and perhaps take a step back, moderate their posting, maybe even stop posting entirely. But not you. Oh, no. You are so convinced of your genius, so convinced of your very rightness that you'll just keep on posting, keep on generating entertainment for the rest of us. I'm not sure if you're American or not, but for the Americans out there, it's very much akin to Glenn Beck and all the advertisers he lost in the wake of... well, we'll avoid the name for it because it's rather inappropriate, but suffice it to say the tl;dr for anyone unaware he's a radio show host who said a lot of rather inappropriate things on air about a woman named Sandra Fluke, and so lost a lot of ad deals as a result. Did the loss of the hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars worth of ad deals over his words and actions stop him? Nope, he just kept going right on, kept saying insane things. Now to the very great shame of the US, this man still wields an absurd amount of power, in his own way, which is rather more than you can say. But the point I'm getting at is that some people just can't help themselves. You are one of them. I have seen some of this Glen becks quotes
But frankly I am more offended at the idea of being thought of as an American.
Now why would I stop posting just because some people from Null, taunt and abuse me for not telling the narrative they want everyone else to believe. There seem to be set scripts for some of the posters on these forums as to what lines they need to hold, and what threads to try to derail, the later not really being a problem in Jita Park as so few read what is written here.
As I have said before if you take the position of Chairman it will only be for your ego and the ego of those in Goonswarm and Null, while having a Hi-sec chairman will be a much needed boost to Hi-sec egos as well as being good PR for the CSM and attracting more interest from within the Hi-sec community, and as one of the Narratives is that Null makes up so many of the people in Hi-sec, look at it this way, a Hi-sec chairman is supposedly representing most of your voters anyway.
Now I will say you are brilliant when it comes to the markets, why not stick to what you are good at and help to work out how to remove some of the welfare features in this game like the cheap NPC facility slots, to make POS a more rewarding thing to have, especially with the new changes to Ice and help speed up the welfare payments that are Moon Mining. Now tech has been shot in the foot that is a good start and CCP have hinted they want to go furture. Help them.
But you do not need to be Chairman to do any of these things. Your ego does not need fluffing do what is right for the CSM. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 23:29:00 -
[132] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Look it's an analogy okay. I wasn't saying he was literally Glenn Beck. You're too sane and well spoken to be any right-wing pundit, even if I disagree with you on occasion. Maybe we'll pretend you're Rachel Maddow or something instead. From that I presume you must be a left wing democrat. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
993
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 01:11:00 -
[133] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:Look it's an analogy okay. I wasn't saying he was literally Glenn Beck. You're too sane and well spoken to be any right-wing pundit, even if I disagree with you on occasion. Maybe we'll pretend you're Rachel Maddow or something instead. From that I presume you must be a left wing democrat.
As incorrect a presumption as virtually everything else you post. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 03:23:00 -
[134] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:Look it's an analogy okay. I wasn't saying he was literally Glenn Beck. You're too sane and well spoken to be any right-wing pundit, even if I disagree with you on occasion. Maybe we'll pretend you're Rachel Maddow or something instead. From that I presume you must be a left wing democrat. As incorrect a presumption as virtually everything else you post. So you won't be trying to stuff your ego with the chairmans position then, well that would at least be nice to see that you put the CSM above your own ego. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1009
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 04:39:00 -
[135] - Quote
And another incorrect presumption. Whether or not I opt to run for chair will have nothing to do with "stuffing my ego".
Not that you're willing to believe that, of course. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 04:42:00 -
[136] - Quote
mynnna wrote:And another incorrect presumption. Whether or not I opt to run for chair will have nothing to do with "stuffing my ego".
Not that you're willing to believe that, of course. As you have shown in this thread and others, communication is not your strong point, market analysis is. So if you go for chairman a role dedicated to communication, then yes it is just for your ego. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
162
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:01:00 -
[137] - Quote
mynnna wrote: I'm not sure if you're American or not
Pretty sure he's an Aussie, like me, just because of his discussion of the STV system was always brought back to the Australian Elections and how they are compulsory over here (and he seemed to know an awful lot about Australians who don't vote getting fined). Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
|
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1010
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:02:00 -
[138] - Quote
And another incorrect statement, this time casting your opinion as fact. I do have to say it's entertaining to have my skills as a communicator insulted by someone who proudly embraces his own poor spelling and grammar.
In any case, there are far more (and far more significant) reasons for me to take the position than to massage my ego, just as there are far more reasons for me to turn it down than "thinking of the good of the CSM". Your unwillingness to acknowledge that is disappointing, but given your attempts to build a narrative, frankly unsurprising.
I'll say nothing else on the subject until we've announced our officers.
dark heartt wrote:mynnna wrote: I'm not sure if you're American or not Pretty sure he's an Aussie, like me, just because of his discussion of the STV system was always brought back to the Australian Elections and how they are compulsory over here (and he seemed to know an awful lot about Australians who don't vote getting fined). Ah of course, how could I have forgotten his incorrect insistence that STV is designed to work with compulsory voting. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1287
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:05:00 -
[139] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:As you have shown in this thread and others, communication is not your strong point, market analysis is. So if you go for chairman a role dedicated to communication, then yes it is just for your ego.
Even if you were right about mynnna not being a good communicator (you're not, fyi), that'd only be the tiniest fraction of what makes a chair good. Seleene and Trebor are both fine communicators, but their chair/vice chair performance left a lot to be desired. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:18:00 -
[140] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:As you have shown in this thread and others, communication is not your strong point, market analysis is. So if you go for chairman a role dedicated to communication, then yes it is just for your ego. Even if you were right about mynnna not being a good communicator (you're not, fyi), that'd only be the tiniest fraction of what makes a chair good. Seleene and Trebor are both fine communicators, but their chair/vice chair performance left a lot to be desired. Also I'd bet cash money that mynnna gets way more of an ego massage from his regular Cabal stuff than he ever would from the CSM. In the old CSM the chairman was the head of the CSM body, it is now according to the white paper the position responsible for communication.
You do not have to be the chairman of the CSM to be its leader. The need to be chairman, which is in this case just the title of head communicator, when you do not fit this role, but take it anyway it can only be for the sake of ego.
As to Seleene and Trebor, personally I would say their communication during CSM7 to the player base was very occasional and poor. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
|
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1288
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:24:00 -
[141] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:In the old CSM the chairman was the head of the CSM body, it is now according to the white paper the position responsible for communication.
When you turn "responsible for communication" into "he has to do it himself" you're doing nothing other than proving how completely out of your depth you are even trying to suggest anything about the CSM. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:38:00 -
[142] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:In the old CSM the chairman was the head of the CSM body, it is now according to the white paper the position responsible for communication. When you turn "responsible for communication" into "he has to do it himself" you're doing nothing other than proving how completely out of your depth you are even trying to suggest anything about the CSM. The CSM Chairman's role is for the person responsible for communications.
How does that have anything to do with "he has to do it himself" or are we up to the part of the Goonswarm handbook where just just start babbling to try to shut down a thread. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:42:00 -
[143] - Quote
I think the biggest problem here is that you think the CSM Chairmans position is the same as it was.
It Is Not.
The Chairman used to be the head of the CSM and was placed there though having the largest number of votes, or as in CSM7s case, dirty backroom politics, that elected someone that went MIA again into the position.
The CSM Chairman is now as of this election the person responsible for communications between the CSM and CCP, and the CSM and the player base. It is no longer a leadership role.
So someone taking the role who does not suit it is very much for their own egos and not for the good of the CSM. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1288
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:44:00 -
[144] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:The CSM Chairman's role is for the person responsible for communications.
How does that have anything to do with "he has to do it himself" or are we up to the part of the Goonswarm handbook where just just start babbling to try to shut down a thread.
You inferred that his personal communication abilities are somehow relevant to the chair position. I pointed out how shortsighted and idiotic that was. Simple
As an aside, mods can you filter "shortsighted and idiotic" to "Frying Doom"? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:53:00 -
[145] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:The CSM Chairman's role is for the person responsible for communications.
How does that have anything to do with "he has to do it himself" or are we up to the part of the Goonswarm handbook where just just start babbling to try to shut down a thread. You inferred that his personal communication abilities are somehow relevant to the chair position. I pointed out how shortsighted and idiotic that was. Simple As an aside, mods can you filter "shortsighted and idiotic" to "Frying Doom"? Frying Doom wrote:I think the biggest problem here is that you think the CSM Chairmans position is the same as it was.
It Is Not.. BUT THE WHITE PAPER SAYS ITS DIFFERENT THEREFORE IT HAS TO BE ITS NOT THE SAME BEEP BOOP I AM A ROBOT So far out of your depth you need an atmospheric suit at this point. The White paper is the document that governs the CSM.
Which means that yes, The chairman is the person responsible for communication, not leadership. So yes their personally ability to communicate is relevant to the selection of the chairman.
Your inability to grasp this really does show how badly you require a meaningless title for a member of your Alliance.
It would appear that it is you who are out of your depth, as you cannot adapt to change. What is it you Goons always say to Hi-sec carebears when the game changes, "Adapt or Die", well now it is your turn.
Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1289
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:55:00 -
[146] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:[Your inability to grasp this really does show how badly you require a meaningless title for a member of your Alliance.
This from the guy who cares so much about said "meaningless title" he devoted an entire new thread to talking about it.
ps I don't give a **** if mynnna gets the chair or not hth "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:00:00 -
[147] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:[Your inability to grasp this really does show how badly you require a meaningless title for a member of your Alliance. This from the guy who cares so much about said "meaningless title" he devoted an entire new thread to talking about it. ps I don't give a **** if mynnna gets the chair or not hth If someone who has no ability to communicate, takes the chairman's position, then it is a worthless title. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1289
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:06:00 -
[148] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:no ability to communicate
Please name the CSM 8 members that fit this description. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:31:00 -
[149] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:no ability to communicate Please name the CSM 8 members that fit this description. I miss spoke, people who have poor communication skills for a role as Chairman of the CSM.
Like when you did when you said "Seleene and Trebor are both fine communicators, but their chair/vice chair performance left a lot to be desired."
Maybe you should look at Seleenes and Trebors blogs, to familiarize your self with poor communication skills.
Seleene's http://seleenes-sandbox.blogspot.com.au/
Trebor's http://treborofthecsm.blogspot.com.au/
Selennes just stops and Trebors is mostly about re-electing him.
But apparently you are unaware of what good communication looks like. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1289
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:35:00 -
[150] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:I miss spoke, people who have poor communication skills for a role as Chairman of the CSM.
List them, please. No links to blogs, no tangents, just list the members of CSM 8 that you feel are poor communicators. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
|
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:41:00 -
[151] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:I miss spoke, people who have poor communication skills for a role as Chairman of the CSM. List them, please. Well off the top of my head, how about we start with Mynnna. This is a thread about the CSM Chairman and at no point has he come forward with why he would make a good communicator and subsequently make a Good Chairman.
We are 8 pages in and the level of communication as to why he would be an excellent choice for the position has been, 0.
Now you could argue that I am not a member of the CSM and only a player, so I don't deserve the reasons why but a good communicator would realize that as a member of the player base in a public forum, this is exactly the place to list those qualities.
Next how about Trebor, he had his chance to communicate during CSM, he dropped the ball so badly it still has not been found.
Those are the two that before the election ended said they would try for the position.
But if you have a problem with the Chairmans position now being about communication, it is CSM7 who assisted in changing the white paper, not I. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1289
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:45:00 -
[152] - Quote
So mynnna is out because he hasn't explained to you personally why he would make a good chair even though you have literally zero influence on the decision, and Trebor is out because he was bad at communication last year.
That's it? Or are there more? It doesn't seem like you've put much thought into this.
"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:51:00 -
[153] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:So mynnna is out because he hasn't explained to you personally why he would make a good chair even though you have literally zero influence on the decision, and Trebor is out because he was bad at communication last year.
That's it? Or are there more? It doesn't seem like you've put much thought into this.
I would bother to go through more but I was expecting a rather pointless response, for example "So mynnna is out because he hasn't explained to you personally why he would make a good chair even though you have literally zero influence on the decision" as I said this is a public forum and the voters are the people who need to know the why just as much as the other CSM members do. Inability to grasp that by itself is example enough of poor communications. The fact that a member of the voting population went to the trouble to write a thread as to why Mynnna would not be a good chairman, is reason enough to respond as to why.
As to Trebor, you don't believe past performance, is an indication to inability?
You are now just grasping at straws, so you can justify a member of your alliance taking the Chairman's position just for his ego. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1289
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:54:00 -
[154] - Quote
"Guys I could totally list more but I won't because reasons"
- Frying Doom
List the members that are poor at communication. You've got two so far, and both with pretty spurious reasons (Trebor's should have been easy but you even found a way to **** that one up too). There's 11 to go, since Mike Azariah is clearly your boy. Make with the list already. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:56:00 -
[155] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:(Also please note the irony of "he hasn't explained himself to me" being a clear strike against him when you talk about doing things for ego) Oh and as to your irony edit.
All it has to do with me is that I posted the thread, it was he that would not come forth and answer as to why he would be a communicator to all those who read these forums. As there are a lot more lurkers on here than there are posters. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:59:00 -
[156] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:"Guys I could totally list more but I won't because reasons"
- Frying Doom
List the members that are poor at communication. You've got two so far, and both with pretty spurious reasons (Trebor's should have been easy but you even found a way to **** that one up too). There's 11 to go, since Mike Azariah is clearly your boy. Make with the list already. No i did not list more as I said as you would just make up useless excuses.
As you did not bother to actually think about what I wrote there is little point continuing the list as you will just continue to ignore it.
Lets face it "Trebor is out because he was bad at communication last year." I try and avoid saying this but
Yeah, Duh Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1289
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 07:02:00 -
[157] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:All it has to do with me is that I posted the thread, it was he that would not come forth and answer as to why he would be a communicator to all those who read these forums. As there are a lot more lurkers on here than there are posters.
You didn't just post the thread, you posted the thread, complete with your ~personal recommendation~ and a rather inflammatory stance on a chair that may be from nullsec and the effects it would have. It's only when you're asked for a concise explanation of anything you say that you get all stupid and blurf on and on about mynnna as if he's the only person who may get the chair.
Right now I'm asking for your reasoning in saying that Mike Azariah is the best choice for the job, especially now that you've shifted your own personal narrative from "nullsec is bad" to "bad communicators". Your failure to do that is only furthering your irrelevance, which I guess is shocking enough that there's still room for it to sink.
If you want any further discussion on specific candidates, either complete your list OR concede that your list of bad communicators ends with the only two you mentioned. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 07:11:00 -
[158] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:All it has to do with me is that I posted the thread, it was he that would not come forth and answer as to why he would be a communicator to all those who read these forums. As there are a lot more lurkers on here than there are posters. You didn't just post the thread, you posted the thread, complete with your ~personal recommendation~ and a rather inflammatory stance on a chair that may be from nullsec and the effects it would have. It's only when you're asked for a concise explanation of anything you say that you get all stupid and blurf on and on about mynnna as if he's the only person who may get the chair. Right now I'm asking for your reasoning in saying that Mike Azariah is the best choice for the job, especially now that you've shifted your own personal narrative from "nullsec is bad" to "bad communicators". Your failure to do that is only furthering your irrelevance, which I guess is shocking enough that there's still room for it to sink. If you want any further discussion on specific candidates, either complete your list OR concede that your list of bad communicators ends with the only two you mentioned. Mike is the best choice for the CSM as the PR benefits to the CSM would be immense and after all these years of Null sec Chairman I believe it would help n the CSM9 elections for voter turn out, as well as voter education throughout the next 11 months and CCP actually supporting the CSM at the start of the election rather than the end.
Also as I said originally he describes himself as "I have been active in the community since 2008.. I currently help host the podcast Podside, I have had a blog as a proud member of the Eve Blog Pack for more than four years. I have written for Eon and the Eve Tribune, often doing commentary on the CSM."
He has a blog, he has the necessary communication skills and on top of it all he is from Hi-sec.
Given that CSM7 allowed the STV system to be implemented, so now we have 10 Null sec members, voter interest will drop even further unless CCP really stick their foot in it.
As I said the Chairman's position is now a communication position, and given the high level of null representation CSM9 could be the least representative yet to come, unless something is done. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1289
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 07:15:00 -
[159] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:If you want any further discussion on specific candidates, either complete your list OR concede that your list of bad communicators ends with the only two you mentioned.
"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 07:32:00 -
[160] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Snow Axe wrote:If you want any further discussion on specific candidates, either complete your list OR concede that your list of bad communicators ends with the only two you mentioned. Then might I suggest you look up the word discussion.
Not that it matters much. This thread has ascertained that Mynnna and Trecbor are ill suited for the role of communicator.
While a Hi-sec member would be beneficial to the CSM, I do agree that there other members on the CSM that are excellent communicators, Ripard Teg for example would be reasonable choice, so long as the reasoning is what is best for the CSM, not just what is best for Null or one of its alliances. With 10 members of the CSM being from Null, it would be a wasted PR opportunity for a Null member to take the chairmanship.
So if The position went to a proven good communicator, ego might still play a part but, if a poor communicator takes the chair. well then it is definitely ego. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
|
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1289
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 08:04:00 -
[161] - Quote
So I'll assume that to mean your list is finished at two (2) poor communicators.
mynnna, a regular TMDC contributor, is ruled out because he didn't justify himself to you. You have ZERO influence over the decision. Thus, I conclude he's at the very least an efficient communicator, given he quickly recognized that you are a completely irrelevant part of this process and thus do not merit an explanation. What kind of communicator would waste their time blabbing about nonsense to everyone in earshot "just because"?
As you've yet to mention any other justification of his being a poor communicator, we can also conclude from this that your ego is through the ******* roof, as it was his failure to explain himself TO YOU that was the deciding factor between mynnna being good enough and not being good enough.
Your second entry was Trebor, the only candidate I'd agree with, though not for your reasoning. You posit that he has poor communcation skills by saying "CSM 7" a lot while failing to provide any examples. Had you gone the easy route and pointed out that the content of his communications (both with players and CCP) are sometimes deplorable and represent a not-great direction for the CSM from a player's perspective, you might have had your "broken clock" moment, but alas.
You're 0 for 2 on your criticisms, and you somehow didn't even mention progod, which should have been the "gimme" of any list what with no blog or twitter or campaign for that matter (the horror!). This means that your endorsement of Mike Azariah is based solely on his highsec residence, a concept which he roundly rejected via his only post in this thread.
tl;dr your ideas are terrible, your arguments are trash, and your mere presence in Jita Park is a pestilence on the CSM process. Go away. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 08:24:00 -
[162] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:So I'll assume that to mean your list is finished at two (2) poor communicators.
mynnna, a regular TMDC contributor, is ruled out because he didn't justify himself to you. You have ZERO influence over the decision. Thus, I conclude he's at the very least an efficient communicator, given he quickly recognized that you are a completely irrelevant part of this process and thus do not merit an explanation. What kind of communicator would waste their time blabbing about nonsense to everyone in earshot "just because"?
As you've yet to mention any other justification of his being a poor communicator, we can also conclude from this that your ego is through the ******* roof, as it was his failure to explain himself TO YOU that was the deciding factor between mynnna being good enough and not being good enough.
Your second entry was Trebor, the only candidate I'd agree with, though not for your reasoning. You posit that he has poor communcation skills by saying "CSM 7" a lot while failing to provide any examples. Had you gone the easy route and pointed out that the content of his communications (both with players and CCP) are sometimes deplorable and represent a not-great direction for the CSM from a player's perspective, you might have had your "broken clock" moment, but alas.
You're 0 for 2 on your criticisms, and you somehow didn't even mention progod, which should have been the "gimme" of any list what with no blog or twitter or campaign for that matter (the horror!). This means that your endorsement of Mike Azariah is based solely on his highsec residence, a concept which he roundly rejected via his only post in this thread.
tl;dr your ideas are terrible, your arguments are trash, and your mere presence in Jita Park is a pestilence on the CSM process. Go away. The usual blah blah blah, you will say anything to justify having Mynnna as Chairman, even though chairman no longer means leader of the CSM. Yes Mynnna is brilliant when it comes to the market but beyond that he is lost.
As to Trebor if you actually paid attention to the CSM all year long, I would not have to explain the obvious, that Trebor failed to communicate, something The Mittani even commented on.
As to Mike he is not solely a high sec resident as I have shown multiple times through out this thread.
But your need to have the CSM Chairman as a Goon is apparently blocking your ability to read. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1289
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 08:39:00 -
[163] - Quote
Yeah, it's the usual "blah blah Frying Doom's _______________ has yet again prevented him from realizing that nobody has or will ever take him seriously". Not my fault you don't switch your schtick up.
By the way, that blank can be filled in with "massive ego" or "crippling autism". I'll leave that one up you, I guess. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 08:51:00 -
[164] - Quote
Being taken seriously by a member of Goonswarm is hardly at the top of my list of cares
The matter still stands that Mynnna or Trebor are not suited to a communication position as this thread has shown but as I have said I am sure the need to have the chairmans title to bloat egos will once again be put before the good of the CSM. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
164
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 08:56:00 -
[165] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Being taken seriously by a member of Goonswarm is hardly at the top of my list of cares
The matter still stands that Mynnna or Trebor are not suited to a communication position as this thread has shown but as I have said I am sure the need to have the chairmans title to bloat egos will once again be put before the good of the CSM.
Please point out HOW this thread has shown that they are bad communicators. They have taken the time to respond to you despite the fact neither of them needs to. That is communication. What did they say that was so bad for you? Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
|
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1290
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 08:59:00 -
[166] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Being taken seriously by a member of Goonswarm is hardly at the top of my list of cares
Nobody takes you seriously. That one's not a Goonswarm exclusive.
Frying Doom wrote:The matter still stands that Mynnna or Trebor are not suited to a communication position as this thread has shown but as i have said I am sure the need to have the chairmans title to bloat egos will once again be put before the good of the CSM.
The only ego being bloated in all of this is yours - your head is so inflated you somehow think you're influential in the face of several CSM's past and present openly mocking you, and even the ones that don't have shut down your trains of thought pretty quickly. Even Mike Azariah, the candidate you're backing, opently told you that the CSM is "beyond" your stupid notion that a highsec candidate would be better simply because they're a highsec candidate - I guess you know better than he does, right?
And yet, here you are, not only still ignoring all of the above but actually going a step further and acting as if your terrible ill-founded opinions are fact. Are you off your meds or something? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 09:09:00 -
[167] - Quote
Personal attacks are always welcome.
I means you have no counter to the fact that the CSM Chairman's position is now about communication and not about leadership. It seems it is beyond your ability to grasp. So adapt or Die.
As I have said before The CSM needs to chose what is right for the game not just some null sec egos.
Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1290
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 09:17:00 -
[168] - Quote
"The CSM needs to choose the chair that I would want or else they're just indulging egos ps no nullsec"
So that's runaway ego to start and finished up with a nice dose of idiotic tribalism that nobody but you buys into at all.
Got anything else or are you going to say "Fact is" and then say the same thing structured slightly differently again? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2459
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 09:47:00 -
[169] - Quote
So now we wait.
Will CSM8 do what is good for the CSM or just feed someones ego.
With 10 Null sec egos on the CSM, I am betting the CSM will lose out. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
194
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 10:03:00 -
[170] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:"The CSM needs to choose the chair that I would want or else they're just indulging egos ps no nullsec"
So that's runaway ego to start and finished up with a nice dose of idiotic tribalism that nobody but you buys into at all.
Got anything else or are you going to say "Fact is" and then say the same thing structured slightly differently again? Holy something of someplace, Snow Axe, how do you continue this? I'd been infected with the dumb long ago.
Anyway, I looked through Frying Dooms posts and carefully picked some letters. I then re-arranged them like this:
Frying Doom wrote:Halp, I'm locked in my basement, my own fictional null-spiracy has caught me, and I can't intimidate it with a goon-spiracy! HALP! So now we have all the facts on the table. What do you think his response will be?
|
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1028
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 13:56:00 -
[171] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Yes Mynnna is brilliant when it comes to the market but beyond that he is lost.
You know, since this isn't directly related to the idea of "me being chair" alone, I'm not breaking my previous promise to say nothing else about chair.
So, I'd like to point out that every single word you wrote after "market" in that sentence is so disgustingly wrong that it's the wrongest thing you have ever posted in your history of being wrong. It's so very wrong that it's only through some inexplicable miracle that the very words contained in that half of the sentence have not, by merely being arranged in that particular combination and order, have not become so tainted with the wrongness of the statement as a whole that they become wrong in other contexts as well, causing a cascade of wrongness to erupt across the face of the internet and eventually making everything everyone has ever said and will ever say wrong by association.
I suppose given my posting history on eve-o that being "the market guy" is what I am best known for, if someone were to ignore everything else and around half my posts, but if we're to be judged by our a selective reading of our posting history alone, well... if I take a step back and allow myself a moment of honest, unbiased reflection, I know there's more to you than your posting history suggests. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
808
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:07:00 -
[172] - Quote
I think a sign of a good communicator would be someone who doesn't indulge the lunatic fringe. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
658
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:29:00 -
[173] - Quote
president obama is a bad communicator because when i wrote a letter to him calling him an infernal kenyan usurper he did not take the time out of his schedule to personally respond |
Mike Azariah
Gallente Benevolence Association
294
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 19:44:00 -
[174] - Quote
Just to keep you up to date,
At the prompting of CCP we are in the midst of a very polite discussion as to who will be saddled with which extra tag and workload.
Names are being bandied about and it is all pretty lowkey. Once we know, we'll let you know but it IS an internal thing and you've had your votes. Now is when we start to show whether you made the right choices or not.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
GallowsCalibrator
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
302
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 20:09:00 -
[175] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Just to keep you up to date,
At the prompting of CCP we are in the midst of a very polite discussion as to who will be saddled with which extra tag and workload.
Names are being bandied about and it is all pretty lowkey. Once we know, we'll let you know but it IS an internal thing and you've had your votes. Now is when we start to show whether you made the right choices or not.
m
but but but but you can't make such decisions without Frying Doom, Master of CSM and CCP and ahahahahahaha oh god I can't keep this up |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
815
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 20:11:00 -
[176] - Quote
Agreed, you're probably going to want to run your decision and reasoning by frying Doom at least once because he posts a lot on this ass-end of a forum that nobody reads. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1293
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 20:40:00 -
[177] - Quote
The best part is that even if they fully integrated him into the process for a lark, he'd still lose his **** if they picked anyone other than his choice. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1195
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 20:51:00 -
[178] - Quote
heh the irony of Frying hemming and hawing about listing people he thinks are poor communicators within yet another thread where he demands for a listing of what CSM's supported the CCP decision to move to STV because he's too lazy to get off his soap box to research or directly talk to anyone like a human.
Frying Doom has a duality within him, on the one hand he has to be the person in the conversation who disagrees. But he also *needs* to be right; in fact it is not compatible with his understanding of the world that he could be wrong. That is why he was the only voice in the crowd angrily defending an avowed racist. That's why no matter how much information comes out suggesting a different conclusion on a given topic than the one he has drawn, he will either ignore that information, move on to another argument, or if unable to do so cite said conflicting information as supporting his original opinion.
To Frying Doom, agreement is weakness. Silence is weakness. Being wrong is weakness. And he can never let anyone else know that about himself.
He's that guy. We've all come to know it over this past year. Don't try to convince him he isn't the star of the show, because he can't even see it's a sideshow at best. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Frying Doom
2460
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 22:39:00 -
[179] - Quote
mynnna wrote:You know, since this isn't directly related to the idea of "me being chair" alone, I'm not breaking my previous promise to say nothing else about chair.
So, I'd like to point out that every single word you wrote after "market" in that sentence is so disgustingly wrong that it's the wrongest thing you have ever posted in your history of being wrong. It's so very wrong that it's only through some inexplicable miracle that the very words contained in that half of the sentence have not, by merely being arranged in that particular combination and order, become so tainted with the wrongness of the statement as a whole that they become wrong in other contexts as well, causing a cascade of wrongness to erupt across the face of the internet and eventually making everything everyone has ever said and will ever say wrong by association.
I suppose given my posting history on eve-o that being "the market guy" is what I am best known for, if someone were to ignore everything else and around half my posts, but if we're to be judged by our a selective reading of our posting history alone, well... if I take a step back and allow myself a moment of honest, unbiased reflection, I know there's more to you than your posting history suggests. Yes lets look at some of your non market posts.
Mynnna wrote:For the record, pay no attention to the fact that he's posting on an obvious alt: this man knows what he's talking about, because he's been there and done that regarding both defensive and offensive sovereignty operations for years.
mynnna wrote:The original burn jita was actually planned and prepared for well in advance of the whole fanfest fiasco with Mittani, but that doesn't make the revisionist history from pubbies any less hilarious.
mynnna wrote:Also has the same problem as giving gifts. 50,000 uninformed and thus basically randomized votes has the same effect as those 50,000 not voting, statistically speaking. Might as well not have them vote. The idea that compulsory voting is just making random votes, so you seem to believe countries like Australia, with compulsory elections have just got random votes, you should also not this is the country they got the STV system from that they used.
Mynnna wrote:If nerfing jump drive range actually helps smaller groups, wouldn't buffing it harm them instead?
See, we can both play dumb logic tricks with each other's argument.
Or this lovely bit of logic " if I take a step back and allow myself a moment of honest, unbiased reflection, I know there's more to you than your posting history suggests." your unbiased reflection seems to end up reflecting on my posting.
Yes some wonderful examples of communication there but you will go on and on about how I am wrong. Just so you can validate your attempt to use the Chairman's position to inflate your own ego. I love watching people justifying their actions, as I have said before there is what is good for the CSM and what is good for the egos of some Null players. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2460
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 22:42:00 -
[180] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:heh the irony of Frying hemming and hawing about listing people he thinks are poor communicators within yet another thread where he demands for a listing of what CSM's supported the CCP decision to move to STV because he's too lazy to get off his soap box to research or directly talk to anyone like a human.
Frying Doom has a duality within him, on the one hand he has to be the person in the conversation who disagrees. But he also *needs* to be right; in fact it is not compatible with his understanding of the world that he could be wrong. That is why he was the only voice in the crowd angrily defending an avowed racist. That's why no matter how much information comes out suggesting a different conclusion on a given topic than the one he has drawn, he will either ignore that information, move on to another argument, or if unable to do so cite said conflicting information as supporting his original opinion.
To Frying Doom, agreement is weakness. Silence is weakness. Being wrong is weakness. And he can never let anyone else know that about himself.
He's that guy. We've all come to know it over this past year. Don't try to convince him he isn't the star of the show, because he can't even see it's a sideshow at best. Yes you keep saying I should research who supported the STV, I have and only 3 people have actually said they supported it.
But expecting transparency out of CSM7, not that I can blame you, your actions did lead to 10 Null members being on CSM8 Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
|
Frying Doom
2460
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 22:43:00 -
[181] - Quote
GallowsCalibrator wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Just to keep you up to date,
At the prompting of CCP we are in the midst of a very polite discussion as to who will be saddled with which extra tag and workload.
Names are being bandied about and it is all pretty lowkey. Once we know, we'll let you know but it IS an internal thing and you've had your votes. Now is when we start to show whether you made the right choices or not.
m
but but but but you can't make such decisions without Goonswarm, being Master of CSM and CCP and ahahahahahaha oh god I can't keep this up FTFY Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2460
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 23:05:00 -
[182] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Names are being bandied about and it is all pretty lowkey. Once we know, we'll let you know but it IS an internal thing and you've had your votes. Now is when we start to show whether you made the right choices or not. Yes Mike it is an internal thing, it is not like the appointment to offices by elected officials in governments, or even tennis clubs is ever commented on by people or the media.
Nor is the poor performance of those people ever related back to those who chose them to be in that office. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 03:52:00 -
[183] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:Also has the same problem as giving gifts. 50,000 uninformed and thus basically randomized votes has the same effect as those 50,000 not voting, statistically speaking. Might as well not have them vote. The idea that compulsory voting is just making random votes, so you seem to believe countries like Australia, with compulsory elections have just got random votes, you should also not this is the country they got the STV system from that they used.
There is a quantifiable portion of the Australian population that does just randomly vote. A lot of young people simply don't care or really don't want to pick one over the other because they can't see either person being better for them, so they randomly pick some people off the cards. Wikipedia actually has a full article on the Donkey Vote at term used to describe what those people are doing.
Yes there are people who vote seriously, but there is also a large portion of the population here who just don't care, because our leaders have all been jokes for some time now. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
|
Mike Azariah
Gallente Benevolence Association
298
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 04:11:00 -
[184] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Yes Mike it is an internal thing, it is not like the appointment to offices by elected officials in governments, or even tennis clubs is ever commented on by people or the media. Nor is the poor performance of those people ever related back to those who chose them to be in that office.
Wasn't trying to hush you (not sure I could)
Just was letting all of you know that we were working on it, AAAAAAND we still are.
A lot of the past few days has been getting to know each other. Figuring out active times and who know what, who says what. Which does help when it comes time for the internal vote.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Frying Doom
2460
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 07:52:00 -
[185] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:Frying Doom wrote:mynnna wrote:Also has the same problem as giving gifts. 50,000 uninformed and thus basically randomized votes has the same effect as those 50,000 not voting, statistically speaking. Might as well not have them vote. The idea that compulsory voting is just making random votes, so you seem to believe countries like Australia, with compulsory elections have just got random votes, you should also not this is the country they got the STV system from that they used. There is a quantifiable portion of the Australian population that does just randomly vote. A lot of young people simply don't care or really don't want to pick one over the other because they can't see either person being better for them, so they randomly pick some people off the cards. Wikipedia actually has a full article on the Donkey Vote a term used to describe what those people are doing. Yes there are people who vote seriously, but there is also a large portion of the population here who just don't care, because our leaders have all been jokes for some time now. The Australian Electoral Commission reported a national informality rate of 5.55% in the 2010 House of Representatives election, and of 3.95% in the 2007 House of Representatives election.[1] It is said that parties used to deliberately select candidates with a high alphabetical ranking. In 1984 voting reforms were introduced to lessen this effect, including listing names in a random order.
Yes our leaders are a Joke. Lets face it little Johnny Howard was knee high to a grass hopper. Ketting was full of himself and lets just leave she who shall not be named out of it.
But the percentage of Donkey votes in this country is actually quiet small. Surprising really being most of the political parties are more suited to a Monty Python scene than running a country. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2460
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 07:57:00 -
[186] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Yes Mike it is an internal thing, it is not like the appointment to offices by elected officials in governments, or even tennis clubs is ever commented on by people or the media. Nor is the poor performance of those people ever related back to those who chose them to be in that office. Wasn't trying to hush you (not sure I could) Just was letting all of you know that we were working on it, AAAAAAND we still are. A lot of the past few days has been getting to know each other. Figuring out active times and who know what, who says what. Which does help when it comes time for the internal vote. m I was not under the impression that you were trying to shusssh me, but it is nice to know you guys are communicating and subsequently communicating with the playerbase.
It is however refreshingly different to see a CSM member respond to a thread that
- You did not create yourself
- You are not trying to use to get re-elected
Very refreshing, well almost strange tbh. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9091
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 13:29:00 -
[187] - Quote
Try reading threads which are not created by and primarily about you.
You might find that almost as refreshing.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Frying Doom
2460
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 13:35:00 -
[188] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Try reading threads which are not created by and primarily about you.
You might find that almost as refreshing. Do you mean other threads where you sound exactly the same
Malcanis wrote:Just FYI, I've already told him this, and even showed him that there was a GTC trade forum on the EVE-O website before PLEX were introduced. Despite this, he maintained that GTC trading wasn't permitted by CCP.
He's not someone to be persuaded out of his ideas by little things like "facts", "evidence" or "reason". Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9095
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 15:57:00 -
[189] - Quote
Ah, he's one of your alts?
1 Kings 12:11
|
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1293
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 16:02:00 -
[190] - Quote
Didn't you get the memo, Malcanis? "Communication with players" is just a nice way of saying "stop telling Frying Doom how mindnumbingly stupid he is". Anything short of that might get you branded a poor communicator! "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1075
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 17:10:00 -
[191] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:There is a quantifiable portion of the Australian population that does just randomly vote. A lot of young people simply don't care or really don't want to pick one over the other because they can't see either person being better for them, so they randomly pick some people off the cards. Wikipedia actually has a full article on the Donkey Vote a term used to describe what those people are doing. Yes there are people who vote seriously, but there is also a large portion of the population here who just don't care, because our leaders have all been jokes for some time now. i draw a **** on the ballot |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9095
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 18:19:00 -
[192] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Didn't you get the memo, Malcanis? "Communication with players" is just a nice way of saying "stop telling Frying Doom how mindnumbingly stupid he is". Anything short of that might get you branded a poor communicator!
I've added this valuable information to our working notes.
PS We're pretty much decided on who's going to do what; we promise to make as many people as angry as possible with our decision.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1875
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 20:03:00 -
[193] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:PS We're pretty much decided on who's going to do what; we promise to make as many people as angry as possible with our decision. A sure sign that the CSM has their priorities straight. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
None ofthe Above
556
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:41:00 -
[194] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Didn't you get the memo, Malcanis? "Communication with players" is just a nice way of saying "stop telling Frying Doom how mindnumbingly stupid he is". Anything short of that might get you branded a poor communicator! I've added this valuable information to our working notes. PS We're pretty much decided on who's going to do what; we promise to make as many people as angry as possible with our decision.
You've elected Frying Doom chairman, haven't you? I hope you voted, you glorious but often apathetic bastards! STV working as intended; Pre-elections and Get out the Vote, room for improvement. |
James Arget
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
124
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:50:00 -
[195] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:I was not under the impression that you were trying to shusssh me, but it is nice to know you guys are communicating and subsequently communicating with the playerbase. It is however refreshingly different to see a CSM member respond to a thread that
- You did not create yourself
- You are not trying to use to get re-elected
Very refreshing, well almost strange tbh. I would post more, but I don't have the face for it.
To actually say something on topic, we've been working on the officer topic, as well as general organizational bits, as you could expect from a dozen people getting to know each other. James Arget for CSM 8! Wormholes and the Player Perspective
http://csm.fcftw.org |
Frying Doom
2461
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 07:45:00 -
[196] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:PS We're pretty much decided on who's going to do what; we promise to make as many people as angry as possible with our decision. The only way to guarantee that would be to elect Trebor to all 4 positions. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2461
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 07:46:00 -
[197] - Quote
James Arget wrote:Frying Doom wrote:I was not under the impression that you were trying to shusssh me, but it is nice to know you guys are communicating and subsequently communicating with the playerbase. It is however refreshingly different to see a CSM member respond to a thread that
- You did not create yourself
- You are not trying to use to get re-elected
Very refreshing, well almost strange tbh. I would post more, but I don't have the face for it. To actually say something on topic, we've been working on the officer topic, as well as general organizational bits, as you could expect from a dozen people getting to know each other. Crap that is almost more communication that we got out of CSM7 and all in one thread Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9100
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 08:49:00 -
[198] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Malcanis wrote:PS We're pretty much decided on who's going to do what; we promise to make as many people as angry as possible with our decision. The only way to guarantee that would be to elect Trebor to all 4 positions.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Prince Kobol
728
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 08:52:00 -
[199] - Quote
What I find Ironic is that if it wasn't for Frying Doom posting then Jita Park would be a graveyard |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9100
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 08:53:00 -
[200] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Malcanis wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Didn't you get the memo, Malcanis? "Communication with players" is just a nice way of saying "stop telling Frying Doom how mindnumbingly stupid he is". Anything short of that might get you branded a poor communicator! I've added this valuable information to our working notes. PS We're pretty much decided on who's going to do what; we promise to make as many people as angry as possible with our decision. You've elected Frying Doom chairman, haven't you?
We wanted to but Dolan said no
Srs tho, we're all working together very nicely, and there's a very good atmosphere in the CSM8 channel. Some good ideas on how we're going to work with CCP are bubbling up and being implemented, and we're looking forward to getting on with the job and helping them make EVE (and helping them avoid mistakes too ofc)
I'm afraid this is likely to be an extremely low-drama CSM8. Perhaps FD would like to christen us appropriately? I personally favour "The CSM who sold the world", but just as he has to respect our decisions in our jurisdiction, so must we respect his.
1 Kings 12:11
|
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9103
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 08:54:00 -
[201] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:What I find Ironic is that if it wasn't for Frying Doom posting then Jita Park would be a graveyard
When we get our badges, there will be more ~communication~
1 Kings 12:11
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1876
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 18:27:00 -
[202] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Srs tho, we're all working together very nicely, and there's a very good atmosphere in the CSM8 channel.
Have you had progod and Sort in there together yet?
Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1059
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 19:04:00 -
[203] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Malcanis wrote:Srs tho, we're all working together very nicely, and there's a very good atmosphere in the CSM8 channel. Have you had progod and Sort in there together yet?
Funnily enough they never seem to be online at the same time.
Draw what conclusions from that you will.
e: since I realized after posting people probably will misinterpret it, I'm making the joke that they're actually secretly the same person ok. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
96
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 20:25:00 -
[204] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:...PS We're pretty much decided on who's going to do what; we promise to make as many people as angry as possible with our decision. It is nice to have a goal.
|
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1199
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 21:17:00 -
[205] - Quote
CSM8 is not communicating, why don't you talk to players? "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Frying Doom
2463
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 23:19:00 -
[206] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:CSM8 is not communicating, why don't you talk to players? Considering almost every CSM candidate picked out CSM7s lack of communication as its biggest problem. Yet you still seem to be under the delusion that you communicated well.
While I did enjoy your article in The Mittani.com you once again missed how we got stuck with the STV system. That alone shows how poor the communication from CSM7 was, not to mention a lack of posting in these forums. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1207
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 21:12:00 -
[207] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:CSM8 is not communicating, why don't you talk to players? Considering almost every CSM candidate picked out CSM7s lack of communication as its biggest problem. Yet you still seem to be under the delusion that you communicated well. While I did enjoy your article in The Mittani.com you once again missed how we got stuck with the STV system. That alone shows how poor the communication from CSM7 was, not to mention a lack of posting in these forums. Frying Doom: CSM8 Apologist.
Why did you sell out the players to the CSM? Are you really connected to Goonswarm and poisoning Mike's chances at the chair to ensure mynnna gets it?
It makes a lot of sense now "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
None ofthe Above
560
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 21:41:00 -
[208] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:What I find Ironic is that if it wasn't for Frying Doom posting then Jita Park would be a graveyard When we get our badges, there will be more ~communication~
Badges? Why do you need steenkin' badges? I hope you voted, you glorious but often apathetic bastards! STV working as intended; Pre-elections and Get out the Vote, room for improvement. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9149
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 21:47:00 -
[209] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Malcanis wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:What I find Ironic is that if it wasn't for Frying Doom posting then Jita Park would be a graveyard When we get our badges, there will be more ~communication~ Badges? Why do you need steenkin' badges?
Because badges also denote things like Jabber access and being allowed to attend meetings.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Frying Doom
2471
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 22:57:00 -
[210] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:CSM8 is not communicating, why don't you talk to players? Considering almost every CSM candidate picked out CSM7s lack of communication as its biggest problem. Yet you still seem to be under the delusion that you communicated well. While I did enjoy your article in The Mittani.com you once again missed how we got stuck with the STV system. That alone shows how poor the communication from CSM7 was, not to mention a lack of posting in these forums. Frying Doom: CSM8 Apologist. Why did you sell out the players to the CSM? Are you really connected to Goonswarm and poisoning Mike's chances at the chair to ensure mynnna gets it? It makes a lot of sense now And yet another dodge of how we ended up with 3 members of the CSM deciding we should end up with an STV system, that elected 10 Null sec members.
Good job. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
|
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1210
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 09:23:00 -
[211] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:CSM8 is not communicating, why don't you talk to players? Considering almost every CSM candidate picked out CSM7s lack of communication as its biggest problem. Yet you still seem to be under the delusion that you communicated well. While I did enjoy your article in The Mittani.com you once again missed how we got stuck with the STV system. That alone shows how poor the communication from CSM7 was, not to mention a lack of posting in these forums. Frying Doom: CSM8 Apologist. Why did you sell out the players to the CSM? Are you really connected to Goonswarm and poisoning Mike's chances at the chair to ensure mynnna gets it? It makes a lot of sense now And yet another dodge of how we ended up with 3 members of the CSM deciding we should end up with an STV system, that elected 10 Null sec members. Good job. yet another dodge of me answering that question in like 5 threads. You need to come up with a new bead in the Rosary of Denial
Also, CCP Xhagen is not on the CSM, it was his decision. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Frying Doom
2472
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 10:15:00 -
[212] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote: yet another dodge of me answering that question in like 5 threads. You need to come up with a new bead in the Rosary of Denial
Also, CCP Xhagen is not on the CSM, it was his decision.
So you are saying that CCP Xhagen, stuck us with the STV, and that 3 members of the CSM supported this move.
Well at least we finally cleared that up. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
198
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 13:20:00 -
[213] - Quote
Actually Frying Doom, that would only be your interpretation of it, and I'd wager that it would be a willfully wrong interpretation at that. Just like your inability to show how a "HS Chair" would do anything different from a "NS Chair" by the virtue of where the chair might use the most of his/her time, your inability to show how CSM7 was eternally bad and did not say a word and was the worst CSM in history, your inability to show how STV is so horrible is actually a good argument to why it's incorrect.
For CSM8, 49 702 votes are represented on the council. In CSM7, that same number is 44 296. I'm not sure if you can add/subtract, but that's a difference of 5 406 voters represented. To further show why you're bad: By STV, all CSM8 representatives used the votes necessary (And not a single more) to get a seat. For CSM7, The Mittani spent 7 593 votes sending a message (Had he only gotten 2 464 votes, he'd be alternate). If the CSM7 votes for candidates that actually became representatives had been spent in a manner that would assure as many representatives as possible, all 14 candidates could have been representatives (So no need for alternates) with the same number of votes as Seleene (The lowest vote-scorer among "full seats"), and STILL have 4 466 votes to fraud away, or w/e. To make matters even worse, if we were to say that all 14 CSM members had full seats in CSM7, 26 348 votes were wasted (Overflow) in the CSM7 election.
When you try to paint STV in a bad light, try to do the numbers first. On CSM7, a full 14 813 votes were cast for a candidate who did not get a seat. Furthermore, 26 348 votes were effectively overflow votes compared to the lowest vote-getter on the council. Only 17 948 votes decided who would be delegates (Full and alternate in total).
Compare that to CSM8 and STV, please. One of them is able to pass for democracy, the other is not. Go figure which one you advocate.
|
Frying Doom
2473
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 14:13:00 -
[214] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Actually Frying Doom, that would only be your interpretation of it, and I'd wager that it would be a willfully wrong interpretation at that. So then what was Alekseyev Karrde saying above? you seem very good at ridicule how about you tell me that?
Alphea Abbra wrote:Just like your inability to show how a "HS Chair" would do anything different from a "NS Chair" by the virtue of where the chair might use the most of his/her time, your inability to show how CSM7 was eternally bad and did not say a word and was the worst CSM in history, your inability to show how STV is so horrible is actually a good argument to why it's incorrect. Actually as I said before and many times, the PR value of a Hi-sec Chairman for the majority of the player base would be invaluable, rather than just another Null sec Chairman. If CSM7 was so wonderful, can you explain why almost every CSM8 candidate stated there level of communication and transparency was so poor?
Alphea Abbra wrote:For CSM8, 49 702 votes are represented on the council. In CSM7, that same number is 44 296. I'm not sure if you can add/subtract, but that's a difference of 5 406 voters represented. To further show why you're bad: By STV, all CSM8 representatives used the votes necessary (And not a single more) to get a seat. For CSM7, The Mittani spent 7 593 votes sending a message (Had he only gotten 2 464 votes, he'd be alternate). If the CSM7 votes for candidates that actually became representatives had been spent in a manner that would assure as many representatives as possible, all 14 candidates could have been representatives (So no need for alternates) with the same number of votes as Seleene (The lowest vote-scorer among "full seats"), and STILL have 4 466 votes to fraud away, or w/e. To make matters even worse, if we were to say that all 14 CSM members had full seats in CSM7, 26 348 votes were wasted (Overflow) in the CSM7 election.
When you try to paint STV in a bad light, try to do the numbers first. On CSM7, a full 14 813 votes were cast for a candidate who did not get a seat. Furthermore, 26 348 votes were effectively overflow votes compared to the lowest vote-getter on the council. Only 17 948 votes decided who would be delegates (Full and alternate in total). First you exclude the votes received by The Mittani then you use them in your example, you might want to decide if they were part of the election or not.
So 14813 votes were wasted in CSM7, and you claim none were wasted in CSM8, nice thing to claim without the actual ballots, also it would mean that the 14th member actually received the exact amount of transfer votes that he required and none extra.
Oh and as I have said before the STV system is good just not in low voter turn out elections as CSM6 claimed it would hand the CSM to the blocs, and low and behold we have 10 Null sec representatives and 2 from the Wormhole bloc. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
198
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 14:41:00 -
[215] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:So then what was Alekseyev Karrde saying above? you seem very good at ridicule how about you tell me that? My guess is "Xhagen made the final decision based on years of discussions with various CSMs and CCP" would be an honest interpretation of the statement.
Quote:Actually as I said before and many times, the PR value of a Hi-sec Chairman for the majority of the player base would be invaluable, rather than just another Null sec Chairman. Yeah, and if you didn't just state it as fact and y'know... actually made a sound argument about it, I might care.
Quote:If CSM7 was so wonderful, can you explain why almost every CSM8 candidate stated there level of communication and transparency was so poor? First, I'd not say CSM7 was wonderful. I feel my vote for Hans was well worth it and my other votes less so, and the CSM7 overall decent. What you quoted wasn't an endorsement for CSM7 either, but rather a comment on your inability to back up the point that CSM7 was horrible.
Quote:First you exclude the votes received by The Mittani then you use them in your example, you might want to decide if they were part of the election or not. Are we even reading the same post? I never excluded them in the first place.
Quote:So 14813 votes were wasted in CSM7, and you claim none were wasted in CSM8, nice thing to claim without the actual ballots, also it would mean that the 14th member actually received the exact amount of transfer votes that he required and none extra. Actually I assumed the number in the dev. blog was ready for use, but going back and looking it might not be so. My point will stand as long as fewer than ~5k votes were wasted in the CSM8 election.
QUOTED FROM THE POST ABOVE AND NOT FORMATTED DUE TO QUOTE LIMIT === Oh and as I have said before the STV system is good just not in low voter turn out elections as CSM6 claimed it would hand the CSM to the blocs, and low and behold we have 10 Null sec representatives and 2 from the Wormhole bloc. === END OF QUOTE FROM THE POST ABOVE AND FORMAT LACKS BECAUSE OF FORUM QUOTE LIMITS
That sounds more of a problem with CCP not getting the act together with announcing/advertising the vote, and the website being borked and everything. If all the HS people are dissatisfied with a system that is more proportional to the voters, maybe they should vote? |
Frying Doom
2473
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 14:45:00 -
[216] - Quote
A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
198
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 14:55:00 -
[217] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.
If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns. You fail to address where this is the fault of CSM7 (Or CSM8). If you're dissatisfied that the CSM is more representative to the votes cast, argue against STV. If you're dissatisfied that the votes cast aren't representative of where most people live, argue that CCP should do a better job advertising the CSM elections than they did this time. OR do what NS and WH in general has done: Organise. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9161
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 15:10:00 -
[218] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.
If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns.
Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet.
Conversely, CSM 6...
1 Kings 12:11
|
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
198
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 15:16:00 -
[219] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.
If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns. Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet. Conversely, CSM 6... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH - wheeze - AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ahah AHAHAH - pant - Eheheheh.
I like how your application of FD's logic is more internally consistent than his own application of it. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
836
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 15:46:00 -
[220] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet.
Conversely, CSM 6...
Hahaha.
Not really fair arguing like that; you need to handicap yourself to keep it competitive.
|
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9183
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 17:53:00 -
[221] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Malcanis wrote:Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet.
Conversely, CSM 6... Hahaha. Not really fair arguing like that; you need to handicap yourself to keep it competitive.
That's not the EVE way, my friend.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Frying Doom
2476
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 02:59:00 -
[222] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.
If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns. Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet. Conversely, CSM 6... Actually nice post.
But what I was actually saying is that if people do not feel represented by the CSM, they will just ignore it. Which I freely admit most already do. CCP has shown how it reacts to falling sub numbers. So if you have no faith in the CSM, history has shown us that the best way to have a voice is to un-sub and come back later.
I would like the CSM to be representative of EvE, so the majority feel like they have a voice, subsequently ways need to be found to et people to vote and believe in the CSM. Unfortunately doing the same thing year after year does not seem to be working and CSM8 will have a hard battle being that 10 members come from 20% of the player base and 2 others come from 5% of the player base. And 2 come from 60% of the player base. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
215
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Posted - 2013.05.08 04:15:00 -
[223] - Quote
You could also argue that Mangala is from the "RvB Bloc" so that leaves one. But the main issue with that argument is we don't actually know how representative that is of players, only characters. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Coldest Sea Sailing The Honda Accord
60
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Posted - 2013.05.08 04:16:00 -
[224] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:... much like you just went ahead and decided to be Issler's unofficial campaign manager last year, so much so that she had to publicly deny having any connection with you whatsoever.
^^^^ IKR? Mr. Doom, I'm afraid you aren't doing anybody any favors by endorsing them, please :stahp:...er...stop.(GåÉsee what you made me do?) I'm listening to-áBj+¦rk, playing EVE, eating fishsticks, and I'm cold....this is immersion gaming. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9187
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 06:10:00 -
[225] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:10 members come from 20% of the player base .
What are you talking about? I'm a hi-sec representative (3 of my 6 characters are in hi-sec), so the 80% have me as a rep.
I'm already hard at work brainstorming gameplay ideas with the CCP guys. We were dicussing some fun possibilities for hi-sec mining last night.
1 Kings 12:11
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dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
218
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:14:00 -
[226] - Quote
I'm guessing it's all NDR for the time being? The miner in me just pricked up his dirty little ears Mal.
Also I think Frying is taking all of the people by their alliance/corp tickers only with that stat. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
Prince Kobol
730
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:27:00 -
[227] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:10 members come from 20% of the player base . What are you talking about? I'm a hi-sec representative (3 of my 6 characters are in hi-sec), so the 80% have me as a rep. I'm already hard at work brainstorming gameplay ideas with the CCP guys. We were dicussing some fun possibilities for hi-sec mining last night.
hi-sec mining.... fun gameplay... is that even possible?
Unless the roids shoot back, just randomly explode or have real mass so if your ship hits them it causes massive damage how can mining possible be made fun?
Good luck with that task lol
I salute you :) |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
220
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 06:59:00 -
[228] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:10 members come from 20% of the player base . What are you talking about? I'm a hi-sec representative (3 of my 6 characters are in hi-sec), so the 80% have me as a rep. I'm already hard at work brainstorming gameplay ideas with the CCP guys. We were dicussing some fun possibilities for hi-sec mining last night. hi-sec mining.... fun gameplay... is that even possible? Unless the roids shoot back, just randomly explode or have real mass so if your ship hits them it causes massive damage how can mining possible be made fun? Good luck with that task lol I salute you :)
You now need to tackle the roid to stop it running away, then apply webs to slow it down. The roid is now angry (did I mention it was sentient?) and you have to tank the damage from tiny rocks hitting you like bullets while you drive a laser deep into its heart killing it. The roid now drops minerals that can be salvaged with a strip miner. Also they can only be targeted by mining barges.
I come up with some stupid **** sometimes... Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9188
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 07:24:00 -
[229] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:10 members come from 20% of the player base . What are you talking about? I'm a hi-sec representative (3 of my 6 characters are in hi-sec), so the 80% have me as a rep. I'm already hard at work brainstorming gameplay ideas with the CCP guys. We were dicussing some fun possibilities for hi-sec mining last night. hi-sec mining.... fun gameplay... is that even possible? Unless the roids shoot back, just randomly explode or have real mass so if your ship hits them it causes massive damage how can mining possible be made fun? Good luck with that task lol I salute you :) You now need to tackle the roid to stop it running away, then apply webs to slow it down. The roid is now angry (did I mention it was sentient?) and you have to tank the damage from tiny rocks hitting you like bullets while you drive a laser deep into its heart killing it. The roid now drops minerals that can be salvaged with a strip miner. Also they can only be targeted by mining barges. I come up with some stupid **** sometimes...
You forgot to mention that you're now also wardecced by Scordite
1 Kings 12:11
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dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
221
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:37:00 -
[230] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: You forgot to mention that you're now also wardecced by Scordite
Haha well played. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
204
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:45:00 -
[231] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:You now need to tackle the roid to stop it running away, then apply webs to slow it down. The roid is now angry (did I mention it was sentient?) and you have to tank the damage from tiny rocks hitting you like bullets while you drive a laser deep into its heart killing it. The roid now drops minerals that can be salvaged with a strip miner. Also they can only be targeted by mining barges.
I come up with some stupid **** sometimes... Do you acquire SP by drinking the roids' heart blood? |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
222
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 07:50:00 -
[232] - Quote
No but you can harvest its tears for a boost to skill training times. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
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