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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Pure Satisfaction
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.02.27 06:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
For those that think a mini game within the mining mechanic is a good idea, then maybe implement it throughout Eve.
Add a mini game to incursion sites to better target and track a ships guns to maximize dps Add a mini game to hubs and sanctums to effect spawns and faction drops for a pilots kill Add a mini game to wormholes to effect sleeper sites and reduce wormhole environment effects on a ship
Many, many people multi-box in Eve, to use multiple characters in just about all of eve's activities, so why penalize those players that decide to mine. If you want to reward the single solitary miner, then surely shouldn't the single solitary incursion runner, plex runner or wormhole adventurer also have a bonus, and those that multi-box in these sites also receive a penalty. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2648
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Posted - 2014.02.27 07:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
It's not a mini game. The heat map is static. You only need to put your laser there when you start mining it. It's no different than currently scanning asteroids and targeting the ore you want in the belt. Only difference is that there aren't asteroids but a spot on an asteroid.
You're calling it a mini game because you either haven't read or understood the system I have described and just jump to conclusions. Nothing new on the EVE forums. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Pure Satisfaction
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.02.27 07:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Hi. You idea is not the only one floating in this post. My reply is aimed at those comments and suggestions in your post that does suggested mini game dynamics. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2653
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Posted - 2014.02.27 08:36:00 -
[34] - Quote
Pure Satisfaction wrote:Hi. You idea is not the only one floating in this post. My reply is aimed at those comments and suggestions in your post that does suggested mini game dynamics. Well, let it be noted that I am against the addition of mini games as the concept itself is imho breaking the game flow and have a tendency for breaking immersion and atrocious design as can be seen with the loot spew "mini game" (hacking mechanics need more depth to be interesting). Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Dave Stark
4444
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Posted - 2014.02.27 08:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
that was a lot to read
however all i really got from it was "i want to turn mining in to an unenjoyable minigame".
mining is already ****, let's not make it worse please. |
Dave Stark
4444
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Posted - 2014.02.27 08:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:It's not a mini game. The heat map is static. You only need to put your laser there when you start mining it. It's no different than currently scanning asteroids and targeting the ore you want in the belt. Only difference is that there aren't asteroids but a spot on an asteroid.
You're calling it a mini game because you either haven't read or understood the system I have described and just jump to conclusions. Nothing new on the EVE forums.
you compared it to setting up PI extraction heads. people dislike doing that once a week, much less once every 121 seconds. unless all heat maps are identical, and extractor heads are placed on the new asteroid as they were left on the old asteroid; it is a mini game. and if they are all identical, all you've done is made a very complex way of turning off the auto repeat on mining modules.
This is why your idea is quite frankly, bad. you're forcing people to do an activity once every 121 seconds that they dislike doing once every week, or you're just making a complicated way to turn off auto repeat. neither of these ideas are in any way fun or interesting. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1478
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Posted - 2014.02.27 09:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
Oh, btw if you want PI "fun" mechanics, you can do PI, as a side minigame, while mining. Reset your extractor heads every hour for a few days and then let us know just how much fun it is. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Dark Rum
Shrubbery Acquisitions Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.02.27 11:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
I like the concept of adding interactive mining methods that combine effort (not simply more mouse clicking), refined/better yields and potential but avoidable hazards.
a crude analogy would be T1 and T2 manufacturing. T1 does not require extensive skills sets or planning whereas T2 requires significanlty more thought. |
Sunai Karvinoinas
Divide et Impera DE
13
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
+1
I'm a fan of every method, what makes mining a bit more interactive and provides some kind of usability. Especially it should make bot/afk mining even harder.
So far I support this idea in the same way, than some others too. - this is an unskilled forum char |
Alundil
Sky Fighters
410
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Posted - 2014.02.27 16:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I'm not a miner. I hate mining. This, however, seems like it could have merit if implemented correctly. Echoing this sentiment.
A well thought-out proposal. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2886
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Posted - 2014.03.07 05:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
And here's the idea of procedurally generated mining dungeons instead of current pre-designed ones. The seed would take security level and region into account on what to spawn and may even be modified by recent mining numbers or a system specific asteroid frequency derived from current asteroid belt count into the creation.
If procedurally generated dungeons were a item on the to-do list of CCP, implementing them first with mining dungeons would probably the safest way to add, fix and evaluate such a system as mining areas are less complex and risk heavy as encounter sites. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2886
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 11:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
Looking at the mechanics laid out, I realized there was no role for mining drones defined. With drones requiring a target lock in space, the deposit targeting could not be properly applied and drones have too little capacity to make them useful for strip mining. But I think there are ways to incorporate mining drones catering to each mining style.
- Excavator Drones: These drones do not mine. Instead they are removing the chaff on the targeted asteroid, effectively increasing the relative ore density by a certain percentage each cycle depending on the size of the rock. This will increase the efficiency of mining for both Strip Mining and Deposit Mining. Vein Mining would be unaffected.
- (Modulated) Mining Drones: There would be one variety of this drone for every ore there is, requiring the miner to fit for the job instead of one flight for all mining purposes. This would make an Orca useful for switching out drones with the hangars. These drones mine their specialist ore from a rock as long as something of it remains inside independent of the general densities or heat map. Their yield isn't very high but it's reliable and low maintenance.
- Harvester Drones: Similar to Modulated Mining Drones, they come in a variety for every specific ore type but they are equipped with a Deep Core miner and higher velocity than the other drones. They seek out veins in a targeted rock and mine the high yield ore out if the type they are specialized on exists in it. While they have longer cycles, which forces a miner to stay around for longer and may have to be left behind should a quick escape be necessary, they don't require prospecting of a rock as the drone can do that part on its own. Though you will not know if a certain ore is available until you have waited a cycle for the drone to announce yield or lack thereof.
This variety of drones should fill in the gaps that current drones couldn't fill with the new proposed mechanics. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Luna Arindale
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
15
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Posted - 2014.04.18 12:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
While this idea sounds all well and good, the ores in EvE are actually types of asteroids called "family groups". I do not believe that these ores should be shoved into single massive rocks, the way ores work is perfectly fine. The compounds refined from ores make sense base off of family groupings. Basically what you want is targeted refining while you are mining an asteroid, and something that gamebreaking, shouldn't be implemented. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2887
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 12:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
You're still mining ores that need to be refined into minerals. There is no targeted refining. If you are talking about something else, please elaborate because I don't quite get what you are trying to say. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Luna Arindale
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
15
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Posted - 2014.04.18 12:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
The way your mining works, is by targeting a compound inside of an asteroid yes? That basically means, you are selectively refining compounds out of an asteroid. You call it ores, yet an ore when in context of an asteroid is a specific family group. You are already mining a large group of compounds that need to be refined through a family group like Veldspar or Spodumain. Taking those family groups, and shoving them into a single rock, creates a redundant system that is already in place, not to mention it removes all effectiveness of current mining mechanics, which work imho, just fine. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2887
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 12:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
So your argument is merely based on what you interpret as a ore and what you think asteroid mining has been. I am not going to argue semantics. And when the current system is 'working fine', it means it's time to expand on it. This is games development, not industrial engineering. Currently mining is utterly boring. I'd like it to be more interesting and allow a choice of play styles to access it. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Luna Arindale
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 13:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
But there are already so many different play styles in place for mining, gas mining, ore mining, and ice mining. Each one is different, and each serves its own functions.
The point I am trying to make, is that we do not need multi-ore rocks to replace the current system. It will create too much hassle, an people wouldn't mine those rocks, because you have to do a silly pi-interface like minivans just to get the ores you want to get the minerals you want. It will end up hurting those whose skills are already in place for the current system. So, I give you a -1 for this suggestion. On the grounds it hurts current players, and creates an unnecessary and redundant system. |
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven
52
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Posted - 2014.04.29 12:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
This is exactly how I would love to see mining expanded and changed. Love all the ideas discussed here especially the immersion factors and the interactivity with the sites and asteroid belts. This is one of the huge areas of gameplay that has a lot of potential to make mining much more fun and exciting. It would be good to expand the art and graphic side, to make environments in space much cooler. To actually see almost a landscape of the belts, I mean it could range from small planetoids, bigger asteroids to small nodes and clusters of smaller asteroids. Maybe the biggest would not be necessarily mineable as a whole but like OP is saying they would have more impact on the entire site. Some bigger rocks like planetoids could still be very active in terms of reactions and so on due to hot cores and impacts of smaller asteroids, belts after collisions between big asteroids, cloud storms and so on... |
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven
52
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Posted - 2014.04.29 13:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
Luna Arindale wrote:But there are already so many different play styles in place for mining, gas mining, ore mining, and ice mining. Each one is different, and each serves its own functions.
The point I am trying to make, is that we do not need multi-ore rocks to replace the current system. It will create too much hassle, an people wouldn't mine those rocks, because you have to do a silly pi-interface like a minigame just to get the ores you want to get the minerals you want. It will end up hurting those whose skills are already in place for the current system. So, I give you a -1 for this suggestion. On the grounds it hurts current players, and creates an unnecessary and redundant system.
The OP means to expand this part of gameplay the same way as they do with every other system. The mining system works and does it's function well, but the immersion, possible interaction and gameplay that could make it more fun and exciting is missing at the moment. The industry is going through the same thing. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3386
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 22:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
With the numbers from the Gecko contest it is clear that mining is not just some minor occupation but a rather popular activity which is deserving of a upgrade from feature development, no?
Oh and while I'm bumping this, let's add some content: The new covert mining frigate would be the perfect vehicle to do the vein mining in dangerous space as with the lack of drone bay or any offensive systems, it will be forced to jump belts all the time, so it would have the most synergy with small pockets of highly valuable ore spread among many places. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
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Katarr Ne'asirr
Sector IX Concordokken.
2
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Posted - 2014.05.15 09:20:00 -
[51] - Quote
I see miners are so hungry of interaction that they want to improve interaction even with the belt itsalf. Idea looks great. i give it a +1 also. When it comes to interaction between miners and rest of players https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4596251#post4596251 im trying to figure out something , guess small help would be appriciated. |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
138
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Posted - 2014.05.16 13:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
As a miner, I do like these changes. Seems the OP wanted to create a more realistic, variated and interactive way of mining, while still allowing for big mining operations taking place, in the form on Strip Mining (where, after all, you'll be emptying the belt)... and he achieved it.
I'm really curious to see if this could be implemented and how would it affect the game.
Perhaps similar ideas could be brough to ice and gas mining? |
Sorana Bonzari
Paradox Collective Choke Point
6
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Posted - 2014.05.16 16:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
+10 for idea, but -1 for execution.
To preface my next comment let me first say to those people who are worried about yield when changing the mechanic, you are arguing a pointless argument because the yields can be changed to compliment the more interactive mechanic.
To my -1 with this idea (that I really like) we also need to think of the new player experience. Yes mining does need to be more fun and interactive but we need to get more new players to want to bust roids not be overburdened with mechanics and quit. I think the old system of mining should stay in place but have the ability to use a mechanic such as then to gain higher yields.
Furthermore you also need to think of multiboxers. If you require me to be fully immersed in mining I can no longer manage multiple charters at a time effectively. We don't want to mess to badly with the backbone of eve.
Crazy Idea: How about a big highsec cap ship (that can stay in our new highsec pos) be able to go out to a belt and pick up roids to be brought back to a pos for refinement. So yes add a harder mining mechanic that makes multi boxing harder but add something that allows for a large (solo) roid busting operation. |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
137
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 16:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
I think I like this idea, but I have some questions:
Would you want Strip Mining in your system to yield the same, less, or more ISK/hr at max skills than current max-skilled mining does?
When you say that Vein Mining will require moving around, do you mean than if you want to mine out all the veins in a rock, you have to move around it, or do you mean that asteroids will be turning and you will have to maintain the same relative position to them to mine a vein? |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3410
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 17:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:I think I like this idea, but I have some questions:
Would you want Strip Mining in your system to yield the same, less, or more ISK/hr at max skills than current max-skilled mining does? Strip mining would yield less than currently, being the least interactive mining method. Deposit mining would yield around the same as now as the new standard for mining interactivity, vein mining would yield the most as it requires the most hands on activity.
Quote:When you say that Vein Mining will require moving around, do you mean than if you want to mine out all the veins in a rock, you have to move around it, or do you mean that asteroids will be turning and you will have to maintain the same relative position to them to mine a vein? The Deep Core laser required for vein mining has a short range, so you will have to move around a rock to reach the veins. Also they are generally small in volume, so it will need moving a lot from rock to rock and belt to belt to get a ore hold full. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
138
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 20:40:00 -
[56] - Quote
I like the direction you're going. Here's a couple of thoughts:
1). The asteroids should be pretty large, both in size and ore volume, so that players who currently mine actively will have a similar option available to them.
2). Strip miners could be scripted (or use crystals, I guess) to choose between mining slower and slightly more efficiently, of faster and less efficiently so they could also be used as a "nuclear option" to clear out a site before the competition arrives, with the penalty of losing some of the total value of the site.
3). I'm really not an expert on bots, but it seems like Deposit Mining wouldn't be immune to botting. Since it seems like your intention is for Strip Mining to be the acceptable AFK mining option (and I agree with that) how would you prevent bots from marginalizing active Deposit Miners?
4). Do you intend for Vein Mining to reduce the purity of the Deposits?
5). How would you feel about Ore Density being dynamically based on how heavily mined the system has been recently? (Maybe this would only apply to belts, with anomalies representing unknown sources of resources.) |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3412
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:1). The asteroids should be pretty large, both in size and ore volume, so that players who currently mine actively will have a similar option available to them. My aim was for a few big rocks with 3-30km diameter (or different shape with similar volume) which would contain the better part of a belt, and smaller rocks around that would contain the rest. Check the tactical overlay to get the dimensions for a 30km diameter rock, it's quite impressive. Much bigger rocks could be incorporated with ideas from other people which I have linked to here.
Quote:2). Strip miners could be scripted (or use crystals, I guess) to choose between mining slower and slightly more efficiently, of faster and less efficiently so they could also be used as a "nuclear option" to clear out a site before the competition arrives, with the penalty of losing some of the total value of the site. I don't see the logic of depriving yourself of profits just to deprive others of potential profits, especially when those people could just go elsewhere to mine.
Quote:3). I'm really not an expert on bots, but it seems like Deposit Mining wouldn't be immune to botting. Since it seems like your intention is for Strip Mining to be the acceptable AFK mining option (and I agree with that) how would you prevent bots from marginalizing active Deposit Miners? I only peripherally consider bots in my design. Any interface that can be navigated by a human get be handled by a bot. It is the job of CCP to prevent bots from damaging legit players by banning the lot.
Quote:4). Do you intend for Vein Mining to reduce the purity of the Deposits? Veins are only small in volume and I think they only have a insignificant impact on the general purity of the asteroid.
Quote:5). How would you feel about Ore Density being dynamically based on how heavily mined the system has been recently? (Maybe this would only apply to belts, with anomalies representing unknown sources of resources.) If such a system were to be implemented it should, imho, affect all kinds of 'harvesting' activities, like ratting and missioning, too. Personally, I am looking favourably on such a feature, though it may be difficult to balance and may have a more negative effect on general gameplay than benefit. But discussing that would be a topic for its own thread, not here. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
138
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Quote:3). I'm really not an expert on bots, but it seems like Deposit Mining wouldn't be immune to botting. Since it seems like your intention is for Strip Mining to be the acceptable AFK mining option (and I agree with that) how would you prevent bots from marginalizing active Deposit Miners? I only peripherally consider bots in my design. Any interface that can be navigated by a human get be handled by a bot. It is the job of CCP to prevent bots from damaging legit players by banning the lot..
If bots are able to Deposit Mine, who is going to choose to Strip Mine? I don't see any real benefit to it. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4230
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:35:00 -
[59] - Quote
The AFK crowd will continue to do what they like, so long as an allowance is made for them.
That said, there is no legitimate claim to be made against active play causing harm to AFK play.
Active play, by rewarding greater effort, deserves a higher rate of return that scales with the effort made. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
138
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 22:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:The AFK crowd will continue to do what they like, so long as an allowance is made for them.
That said, there is no legitimate claim to be made against active play causing harm to AFK play.
Active play, by rewarding greater effort, deserves a higher rate of return that scales with the effort made.
I agree. The potential I see here is to give a good option to both those who want to mine actively, and those who want to AFK, but if you can AFK Deposit Mine then there will be minimal or no reward for doing actively. |
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