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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
7680
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 12:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:Zimmy Zeta wrote: Maybe Eve is the wrong game for me then? i don't really care for sci-fi. at least traditional sci-fi like star trek and star wars. simply hasn't ever appealed to me.
Well, Star Trek is actually more of just a western set in space and Star Wars is not science fiction in the least bit, so maybe that has something to do with it.
-áGÇ£The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.GÇ¥-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
baltec1
Bat Country
6315
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 12:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Commissar Akiga wrote:I'll be watching it regardless.
Same here, I've never missed a Star Trek film, no matter how dire. You're only encouraging them to make more crappy films. We need a hiatus - about twenty years - before the next 'Trek flic.
But the new trek is good. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
4918
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 13:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:silens vesica wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Commissar Akiga wrote:I'll be watching it regardless.
Same here, I've never missed a Star Trek film, no matter how dire. You're only encouraging them to make more crappy films. We need a hiatus - about twenty years - before the next 'Trek flic. But the new trek is good. The new incarnation of trek is ok. It's adventurous and fun, but also stupid. It's certainly better then what the few previous star trek movies were, but that isn't saying much. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
7698
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 13:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote: The new incarnation of trek is ok. It's adventurous and fun, but also stupid. It's certainly better then what the few previous star trek movies were, but that isn't saying much.
I remember going to a Star Trek Pub Quiz event and they actually had trouble getting rid of first prize: tickets to Star Trek: Nemesis. Nobody was enthused, really. -áGÇ£The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.GÇ¥-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1727
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 15:10:00 -
[35] - Quote
Brujo Loco wrote:I was tempted to write ... "WELCOME TO MODERN HOLLYWOOD" ... then It came to me, a sudden realization : "Welcome to Being Old" . Yes, as you grow older, this will begin to happen more and more, specially these days, where even though Hollywood is to blame, you cna also blame the growing sense of perception BEING OLD gives you. It only grows worse as you age btw, until the moment when you are just too old and begin to forget ... some .... Of course, you can grow old enough (trope-digestion-wise) that you start enjoying all that stuff you would have enjoyed as a young person again, but in a different way this time. Go-go-go, commit most of tvtropes to memory, STAT ! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T Build your own EVE PC http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1559734 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
7729
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 16:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Brujo Loco wrote:I was tempted to write ... "WELCOME TO MODERN HOLLYWOOD" ... then It came to me, a sudden realization : "Welcome to Being Old" . Yes, as you grow older, this will begin to happen more and more, specially these days, where even though Hollywood is to blame, you cna also blame the growing sense of perception BEING OLD gives you. It only grows worse as you age btw, until the moment when you are just too old and begin to forget ... some .... Of course, you can grow old enough (trope-digestion-wise) that you start enjoying all that stuff you would have enjoyed as a young person again, but in a different way this time. Go-go-go, commit most of tvtropes to memory, STAT !
Seriously, last year I really got into "Rawhide" like what, 50 years after the fact ? On the other hand,, watching "Lost in Space" is actually a fairly painful experience now. -áGÇ£The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.GÇ¥-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Eurydia Vespasian
Nova Insula Mining and Industrial
2501
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 18:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Eurydia Vespasian wrote:Zimmy Zeta wrote: Maybe Eve is the wrong game for me then? i don't really care for sci-fi. at least traditional sci-fi like star trek and star wars. simply hasn't ever appealed to me. Star Wars is not science fiction in the least bit, so maybe that has something to do with it.
you know, thats not the first time i've heard that. i guess i don't understand. i'm in no way a star wars expert beyond knowing the bad guys look like the german SS and use red lightsabers and the good guys like robes and bright colors.
but from what i do know about it it seems pretty sci-fi to me lol. fleets of ships and explosions. different worlds and aliens. strange techy jargon and lightspeed. i've heard it called space fantasy. but is not fantasy inherently fiction?
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fairimear
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.05.11 19:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
Must be the only person who loved this film i guess. I watched every episode of trek in my younger days.
Any way Spoilers ahead.
So i will say a few things: If this movie was not star trek and did not have the names attached to it then people would be looking at this entirely differently. If you can use your imagination for 10min and pretend this film was set in the universe of a unkown sci-fi. The characters are in general fantastic. considering how many key characters the film has to manage it gives them all with the exception of 2 or 3 meaning full screen time. There are really 4/5 characters who get high levels of screen time instead of following 1 guy all the time.
The early terrorism plot works fantastically and plays directly into the mid section reveal, It establishes the villain but without giving him or his motives away. The sub plot between the captain and the admiral works fantastically as a moral grounding for the captain. Giving him a emotional core that had been missing. The use of a father figure in the admiral provides excellent motivation for the film to move forward.
In general there is a fantastic coming of age feel to the film. Where the first gave the captain his ship it never really said he knew what to do with it. He never earned it. And this is where this film is strong.
Moving into the mid film the reveal kind of works on an assumption of prior knowledge and that's my only real issue with the film. That being said the character of the villain from the reveal on steals the show. As soon as he is revealed know the history of the character or not the film does a fantastic job. Surpassing the original characters in every aspect. As the captain is clearly starting to understand what his crew means to him the villain exploits this to great effect from a plot point but the film exploits it to. At the same time the captain buys into him you do to. You have established from the start the captains growing relationship to his crew. And to suddenly have the same relationship as the villains motives really works.
from this point on the film grows fantastically as you start to like the villain. Strong scenes and dialogue keep you interested until the plot moves forward again. The ominous warning from the past reminds you and kind of braces you in time to the shift in dynamic for the villain. A scene that has spine shivering stuff to it. You are hit very hard and fast from kind of liking the villain to remembering/realizing who he is at his core. A few choice references help. But nothing really says he's the bad guy like having him crush a mans head with his bare hands as that mans daughter watches shortly after he has curb stomped her leg into about 3 pieces. This sold the character for me. he had gone from manipulator, to victim, to friend and finally takes his place as the main adversary.
This was the high point of the film for me.
The final was a little underwhelming but this is due to the number of characters that had to be wrapped up as well as plot lines. It felt a little like all the good guy cast/crew of the ship are kind of one character with different sub sections And the wrong person had been put in each place. The Villains final action to crash a starship into a city of people and make about 40 skyscrapers into dust seemed a little trivial. Hundreds of thousands probably died and there is little emotional impact or follow up.
Now for the star trek sides of things: Yes its set it trek. Yes it revisits Khan. Yes it has it's flaws. But here are a few things to remember. Star trek was DEAD!!!! doomed to reruns on increasingly poor channels. And with good reason. Secondly the fan service in these new ones is nothing short of legendary. subtle plot line, giant cracked moons around Klingon home worlds (did you notice that even?) ect ect. Now for the people who are moaning about the villain. Firstly Yes In space seed Khan had black hair and was a lot younger. (Clearly you forget that wrath of khan was not his first appearance). Secondly cumberbatch's Khan is by far the most coherent and well rounded of all 3 versions of him. Thirdly. This is technically a direct sequel to wrath of khan if anything. It is not a remake. It is not asking you to forget the first two times you met him. At most it asks you to forgive the fact he's now not Indian. There IS references to why he appears when he does in the new trek. IT is clearly established that star-fleet has expanded faster and differently than in the original time line in response to nero's actions in the previous film. Granted a scene that actually said "we speed up our expansion and exploration in response to the loss of vulcan. And that's when we found Khans ship" may have helped a little.
So yea in short. From a non-trek point of view. Best film I've seen this year. Far better characters than iron man. far less huge plot holes than iron man. Best villain acting since Django. Best visuals and sound for ages. In general a great film. I only wish it had not been star trek in some ways just because the Trekkie don't deserve it. If star wars is half as good it will be better than the last 3.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
7737
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 20:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Eurydia Vespasian wrote:Zimmy Zeta wrote: Maybe Eve is the wrong game for me then? i don't really care for sci-fi. at least traditional sci-fi like star trek and star wars. simply hasn't ever appealed to me. Star Wars is not science fiction in the least bit, so maybe that has something to do with it. you know, thats not the first time i've heard that. i guess i don't understand. i'm in no way a star wars expert beyond knowing the bad guys look like the german SS and use red lightsabers and the good guys like robes and bright colors. but from what i do know about it it seems pretty sci-fi to me lol. fleets of ships and explosions. different worlds and aliens. strange techy jargon and lightspeed. i've heard it called space fantasy. but is not fantasy inherently fiction?
Science Fiction requires explicitly laid out rules concerning it's technology and worlds, which Star Wars does not have at all. It's free for all, with no explanations needed like in Fantasy. -áGÇ£The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.GÇ¥-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Tribal Band
505
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 20:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:i don't really care for sci-fi. at least traditional sci-fi like star trek and star wars. simply hasn't ever appealed to me. Traditional sci-fi is Isaac Asimov. Generic modern sci-fi is Babylon 5. Star Trek is an idealized utopian adventure, and Star Wars is a deep spiritual-political fantasy set in a lush and extremely expansive adventure. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. |
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baltec1
Bat Country
6317
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 20:23:00 -
[41] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Science Fiction requires explicitly laid out rules concerning it's technology and worlds, which Star Wars does not have at all. It's free for all, with no explanations needed like in Fantasy.
And star trek does?
The rules change every episode |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Tribal Band
505
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 20:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Science Fiction requires explicitly laid out rules concerning it's technology and worlds, which Star Wars does not have at all. It's free for all, with no explanations needed like in Fantasy. Star Wars has physics rules, they just aren't always followed by George Lucas. The fans who write books, on the other hand, tend to be very particular in following the Star Wars canon physics.
Star Trek also has a habit of breaking canon to fit an episode. It's very annoying to the fans. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1728
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 09:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:what i do know about it it seems pretty sci-fi to me lol. fleets of ships and explosions. different worlds and aliens. strange techy jargon and lightspeed. i've heard it called space fantasy. but is not fantasy inherently fiction? All fantasy is inherently fiction, but fiction is not inherently science. And science-fiction doesn't necessarily have to have space travel and fleet combat or explosions.
Star Wars can be called futuristic fantasy (although, it allegedly happens in the distant past, as claimed by the openings), or if you will, futuristic fiction, but there's very little in it you could call science. At most, you can call SW a "very soft sci-fi", but calling it just fantasy fits the description better.
Star Trek for instance does not fare much better. Sure, they have a lot more techno-babble and stuff, but it's best called "soft sci-fi" for the majority of episodes.
For "hard" Sci-Fi, you mostly have to resort to books, as very few movies are actually "hard sci-fi". You have more luck with animation (see: "Planetes").
P.S. See : http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T Build your own EVE PC http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1559734 |
Elias Greyhand
2827
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 12:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
I want to watch the movie for a couple of specific reasons which will probably seem stupid;
I like the cliche British villain thing, always makes me chuckle, but I also like Benedict Cumberbatch as an actor.
Some of the lines in the first movie were great, such as the contempt Spock could fit in to "Live long and prosper.", and I'd like to see what other verbal delights might feature in the new movie.
Also, despite these days the shows looking dated and continuity being pretty awful on occasion, I love Star Trek as a whole as an IP. "That which is done cannot be undone. But it can be avenged." |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
7773
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 12:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:.....and Star Wars is a deep spiritual-political fantasy set in a lush and extremely expansive adventure.
Yeah, I coulda done without the constant political hand-wringing in the recent trilogy. But it was all part of George's goal to "make children's films", doncha know ? -áGÇ£The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.GÇ¥-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
7773
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 12:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Science Fiction requires explicitly laid out rules concerning it's technology and worlds, which Star Wars does not have at all. It's free for all, with no explanations needed like in Fantasy.
And star trek does? The rules change every episode
The rules don't 'change'. They find new ones. The core technologies like Warp Drive and Transporters do not change.
But Star Trek is about as Utopian as SF ever gets, even more so than Heinlein. -áGÇ£The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.GÇ¥-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
7773
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 12:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Star Trek also has a habit of breaking canon to fit an episode. It's very annoying to the fans.
Canon does not require any ties to technological aspects of a storyline or world construction. Canon is a completely different thing altogether. -áGÇ£The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.GÇ¥-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Kirjava
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5340
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 12:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
You could tell it was a kids movie, have you ever seen 2 year olds transfixed by the discussion of space tax treaties? The debates and wrangling in the senate?
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Cardinal Kirjava - Redeclaring the Crusade in the name of the Goddess since 2012. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
7774
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 12:56:00 -
[49] - Quote
Someone who gets it........ -áGÇ£The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.GÇ¥-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
7774
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 12:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:You could tell it was a kids movie, have you ever seen 2 year olds transfixed by the discussion of space tax treaties? The debates and wrangling in the senate?
I'm sure they were just fascinated.
I had heard George's comment about these films being strictly for kids, and as I sat there the next day watching it (in a theater with the oxygen seemingly sucked out of the room around the 2 minute mark), I was just astonished, really. It was like watching a 2 1/2 hour Disconnect from all the rules of filmmaking, and not in the good David Lynch way either. -áGÇ£The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.GÇ¥-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
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Kirjava
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5352
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 13:12:00 -
[51] - Quote
If you haven't seen them already, I can't recommend Mr Plinketts review of Star Wars hard enough. It is hilarious and insightful, longer than the film itself and being infinitely better. Three's a part where he goes over the additional materials with a preview with Lucas, noone clapped at the end, just a confused "what did I watch" feeling and a slight dawning horror on Lucas. Its as if he wrote a series of scenes of stuff happening, then linked them together afterwards with a loose plot.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Cardinal Kirjava - Redeclaring the Crusade in the name of the Goddess since 2012. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ |
baltec1
Bat Country
6320
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 13:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:If you haven't seen them already, I can't recommend Mr Plinketts review of Star Wars hard enough. It is hilarious and insightful, longer than the film itself and being infinitely better. Three's a part where he goes over the additional materials with a preview with Lucas, noone clapped at the end, just a confused "what did I watch" feeling and a slight dawning horror on Lucas. Its as if he wrote a series of scenes of stuff happening, then linked them together afterwards with a loose plot.
Still better than Eragon though. |
Kirjava
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5355
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 13:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kirjava wrote:If you haven't seen them already, I can't recommend Mr Plinketts review of Star Wars hard enough. It is hilarious and insightful, longer than the film itself and being infinitely better. Three's a part where he goes over the additional materials with a preview with Lucas, noone clapped at the end, just a confused "what did I watch" feeling and a slight dawning horror on Lucas. Its as if he wrote a series of scenes of stuff happening, then linked them together afterwards with a loose plot. Still better than Eragon though. I know I watched that when it came out, friends were fans.
For some reason they never spoke of it again and I can't for the life of me remember a thing other than the fact it had a kid and a dragon.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Cardinal Kirjava - Redeclaring the Crusade in the name of the Goddess since 2012. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
7800
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 13:20:00 -
[54] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:If you haven't seen them already, I can't recommend Mr Plinketts review of Star Wars hard enough.
I laughed so hard during the entire 'well over 2 hours' of length. I know how those guys felt in their reactions. The theater I saw it in was literally drained of oxygen at the beginning. You could palpably feel it leaving the room. -áGÇ£The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast.GÇ¥-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
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