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Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
352
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Posted - 2013.05.03 11:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Most people like the idea of flying in a fleet of ships all of the same race. Its neat to see and the tactics are interesting to try and implement. In CVA we set up all Amarr fleets on occasion, and I have to say it is one of the most exhilarating and awesom experiences that I have had in Eve. They look great together, and they function well; the Gaurdians creating a nasty tank and cap battery for the power hungry Abaddons. I think any purely racial fleet would feel the same way.
So why do we almost never see pure racial fleets? And should the game perhaps encourage them?
I think that yes, the game should encourage them. It is a better gaming experience because it highlights the back story, and aids in immersion. Also because the individual racial fleets make group roles more clear and easier for new players to understand and be incorporated into.
How could these fleets be encouraged? Just by giving bonuses to pure fleets; fleet boosters have a greater effect, larger wing and squad sizes, maybe specialized links that only affect a pure fleet, and racially specific command skills.
These bonuses could easily be tailored to equalize the different fleets vs one another and to ensure that pure fleets are not the only option.
Command links are up for a rework and this could be a part of that change.
I kind of expect some horrification about this idea from min/maxers and guys who like to have the whole range of ships at their disposal, but please keep in mind that these types of fleets can be balanced Vs all inclusive fleets and that the bonuses would actually create more options for fleet compostions, not less,
Have you ever flown in an all Amarr fleet or an all Caldari fleet? Was the experience different in any way from a standard fleet? Would you like to see more of those kinds of fleet ops? The weight of strange. RL religeous warning, do not watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Mv2MWv0k0 |
Pierre Echerie
Horseshoe Industries
22
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Posted - 2013.05.03 11:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm pretty sure most rank-and-file null pilots have flown in all-Caldari BC fleets. Not saying that's a good thing... |
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2013.05.03 11:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Interesting post. Maybe racial command links for racial battlecruisers on top of standard links could be a way forward. Specialized racial fleets sacrificing adaptability of a multirace fleet for specialization. |
Will Strafe
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2013.05.03 12:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think it's a bad idea. What you understand as "encouragement" will probably in reality be "being wedged into". Now Eve is rock paper scissor, very often one ship has the clear upper hand decided by fit.
So if you know, they are all flying lasers, then that will be easy to counter. Or if they are all either blasters or railguns, that too will be easy to counter. Or if you know they are all EM vulnerable shields for example.
Could easilly imagine rage posts where "Minmatar fleets are totally overpowered, or Amarr fleets suxx." And the bonus will just be understood as being forced to do it a certain way.
So no to CCP dictate, yes to people who come up with AB Zealot fleets and force opposition to build a counter fleet. But when that counter is found and widely used, the Zealot pilots should be able to switch again, to something else, not dictated by CCP. |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
258
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Posted - 2013.05.03 12:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Haven't read the whole post yet, but hell yes would I love to see some bonus for an all racial fleet. Lets have fleets like those in the trailers that made us come here in the first place!
Edit: finished reading, and I think agree with have command ships give larger bonuses to ships of their same race. Doesn't mean they can't be used to bonus other racial hulls, but have them give bigger bonuses to hulls of the same race. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
144
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Posted - 2013.05.03 12:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Having seen the effectivness of some of the old Armageddon or Arbitrator fleets of CVA I'm not sure they need to be encouraged
One of the primary effects of uniform fleets like those (and the reason that Drake and Naga blobs work so well) is that there is something of a built-in synergy from the racial combat doctrine. That combat doctrine may have its flaws but the Guardian does Armour and Cap because the Amarr Doctrine is big on armour and capacitor usage, it doesn't do so well with shield transporters...
That said I like the idea - and I would love to see (for example) a "one-per-ship" Amarr only ganglink, especially as the only way I can see it working would be to tie it into the Amarr SS Command skills - "+1 Amarr BS/Cruiser/Frigate when active" would be awesome*
*I'm not saying inspiring awe is a good or bad thing in this instance. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2475
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Posted - 2013.05.03 13:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
An all Caldari fleet? You mean a drake fleet? |
Halete
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
798
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Posted - 2013.05.03 14:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
People have pointed out the issue already. There have been a lot of single-ship doctrines throughout the ages that have been absolutely toxic. These would qualify as a racial fleet.
I think we should be encouraging ship type diversity in large-scale fleets so that all angles have to be covered (and therefore requiring more types of pilots in large fleets, pushing the game closer to the trailers and heck, all Sci-Fi space combat) before this type of thing.
It's not such a great idea when a lot of the effective doctrines are 'throw 100 of Ship X at it' and alternatively 'throw 200 of Ship X at it failing that'. Which is a shame, because I'd absolutely love the idea otherwise. Trading chains for shackles, I am free. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
603
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Posted - 2013.05.03 14:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Amarr don't need any fleet love. I say that as a first and mostly Amarr ship pilot. I've seen Amarr fleets get tooled by Mini fleets in my days in CVA but it was less to do with them and more to do with us not augmenting all our bonuses. If we had thought to add some Neuts to our armada, we would have clubbed them.
I'd love to fly full Amarr fleets more but most pilots don't like the siege and bait style fleet structure Amarr employ. Minmatar always made better roaming fleets, why they are popular. Goonies are Caldari first. They would be so much more deadly in Amarr groups if they could get their people to coordinate but Goonies have even said, it's like herding cats, getting Goons on a page.
A more direct suggestion to the OP? Make it happen. Amarr is the race to favor if you want racial uniformity. Keep in mind, Amarr is allied to Caldari so a Caldari Compliment isn't outside the RP value. |
Ager Agemo
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
287
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Posted - 2013.05.03 14:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
the issue others have pointed out tho, might be disappearing slowly now, the single ship issues are being managed by both the rebalancing and tiericide, just using drakes, canes by themselves is not enough.
i believe racial fleets should be encouraged, but I mean exactly that, racial fleets, not single ship fleets, instead of lots of drakes, we should see a fleet composed of ravens, drakes, caracals, ospreys, condors, each one filling their proper roles. the same for the other factions, it would be awesome to see a galente fleet with some mixup of vexors, dominixes, myrmidons, tristans, etc etc. |
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bbb2020
Carebears with Attitude
50
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Posted - 2013.05.03 16:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
How about some Faction Warfare Link modules that only give its bonus to ships of the Faction, the Link module belong to. |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1375
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Posted - 2013.05.03 16:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
I doubt it will happen, though it would be interesting to see full racial fleets(not same ship fleets).
[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=206023&find=unread[/url] |
Calathorn Virpio
Golden Construction Inc. Legacy Rising
269
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Posted - 2013.05.03 16:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pierre Echerie wrote:I'm pretty sure most rank-and-file null pilots have flown in all-Caldari BC fleets. Not saying that's a good thing...
lol, translation: drake "i win" fleets feel like cheating BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX
more shenanigans plz
SEXY |
Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
843
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Posted - 2013.05.03 17:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
DRAKE ARMY!
15 DPS but tanked like they were built out of Secure Containers.
--- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. **** |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3418
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Posted - 2013.05.03 17:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wait...is this a 'Buff the Blob' thread?!??!??!
My mind is blown. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
126
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Posted - 2013.05.03 17:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
racist
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/that%27s%20racist%20gif
Also, I like it. CCP doesn't seem to tho. The only consequences race had in game was corp composition. The skill for that was replaced and has nothing to do with race now.
(Race effects possible starting locations, but that's superficial and non-consequential.) |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
375
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Posted - 2013.05.03 17:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
I am absolutely with everyone who is sick of monoculture blob fleets. And I have to say the most successful fleets that I have been in involve a solid combined arms strategy.
The minimum combo is fast tackle/DPS/logi. But from that base you can build a solid fleet using many different components; damps fit in well with logi or EWAR, which fits in almost anywhere. Having a wing of bombers on standby is a great option, likewise incorporating a drone ship or two.
Once DPS hits the level of instablap, or even 10 second blap, it seems to me that a fleet with better support will get more kills and be more survivable. What is the perfect ratio of DPS to support? idk 2/3rds DPS or so sounds right.
And racial doctrines would be even more reliant on support ships because they all have known weaknesses that the non-DPS ships are there to make up for. Which in fact may be the best reason to encourage these kinds of fleets. The weight of strange. RL religeous warning, do not watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Mv2MWv0k0 |
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
2553
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Posted - 2013.05.04 08:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:I am absolutely with everyone who is sick of monoculture blob fleets. And I have to say the most successful fleets that I have been in involve a solid combined arms strategy.
The minimum combo is fast tackle/DPS/logi. But from that base you can build a solid fleet using many different components; damps fit in well with logi or EWAR, which fits in almost anywhere. Having a wing of bombers on standby is a great option, likewise incorporating a drone ship or two.
Once DPS hits the level of instablap, or even 10 second blap, it seems to me that a fleet with better support will get more kills and be more survivable. What is the perfect ratio of DPS to support? idk 2/3rds DPS or so sounds right.
And racial doctrines would be even more reliant on support ships because they all have known weaknesses that the non-DPS ships are there to make up for. Which in fact may be the best reason to encourage these kinds of fleets. When it get's to the point of 10 second blap instead of becoming a battle of who has more support, it becomes who ahs the best logiblob. Seems to me that at the momeny artiy loki's with 50-75% logi will do the trick against prettymuch everything bar other ahac's beceause then it just becomes a battle of who has the bigger blob. WTB Archon's in bulk. Mail me GÖÑ |
Provence Tristram
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
97
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Posted - 2013.05.04 09:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
I completely support the OP's suggestion. I love the idea of all-golden Amarrian fleets sweeping across the starscapes. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
340
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Posted - 2013.05.04 10:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Full support for the OP from me. Also regarding the request for more ship size / type diversity in fleets. Remove insurance. |
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
731
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Posted - 2013.05.04 10:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Looser fleet = Gallente fleet
Well, the moment you don't have to gate jump or try to camp their station, awesome.
On topic, I'm pretty sure the racial Gallente link would be fantastic, something like +7.5% Drone range control Damps range and effectiveness per level.
Edit: of course I was just trolling my self. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
LOL56
Galactic Express Unclaimed.
57
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Posted - 2013.05.04 11:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Drake fleets were never mono racial, becouse they were (do people still fly drakes?, I never see them anymore) drake and SCIMITAR fleets. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
382
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 11:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Princess Saskia wrote: When it get's to the point of 10 second blap instead of becoming a battle of who has more support, it becomes who ahs the best logiblob. Seems to me that at the momeny artiy loki's with 50-75% logi will do the trick against prettymuch everything bar other ahac's beceause then it just becomes a battle of who has the bigger blob.
Last week I was on a cruiser roam. We spotted another fleet that looked close to the same size and jumped in. They went after our Scythe's , just a few seconds per ship an it was gone, much faster than the rep cycles. Our DPS was lower but while they were burning logi we managed to take some of their DPS off of the field.
After 5 or 7 ships had been destroyed, or warped off, the damage started to slow to the point where logi could handle it. We had more logi to start, and some damp support which really helped. So the midgame stabilized for us and then started to turn in our favor.
In the end we took the field and won the ISK war; the ship loss was close. They had higher DPS than we did by a pretty good margin and it really showed in the first stages of the battle. But our support was better and in the end I think it allowed us to win.
That was a great fight and one that the recent ship rebalance really enabled. Sometimes I think the mono-fleet is already dead and gone. It just may take people a little while to figure it out =-) The weight of strange. RL religeous warning, do not watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Mv2MWv0k0 |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
382
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 11:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
LOL56 wrote:Drake fleets were never mono racial, becouse they were (do people still fly drakes?, I never see them anymore) drake and SCIMITAR fleets.
There's a drake fleet that works well Vs the HAM caracals that have become so popular.
The weight of strange. RL religeous warning, do not watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Mv2MWv0k0 |
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