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Combat revisited, Oveur's latest Dev Blog

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kieron	Posted - 2005.10.05 15:33:00 - [1] I spent a couple minutes trying to come up with a catchy thread title that would grab the spirit of the contents of the Blog. Different things came to mind, how should I include the new skills that are coming, new modules, old modules getting a face lift, broken modules getting a fix, and even the ship changes? The more I tried, the more I ran into the character limit for the subject. Finally, I just gave up and grabbed Oveur's title. There's just too much information to try and cram all of it into one catchy title. Don't believe me? Go check it out! kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

SengH	Posted - 2005.10.05 15:34:00 - [2] Edited by: SengH on 05/10/2005 15:36:26 OMG NICE! passive hardening states! Edit: LOL plates getting boosted... ships/modules forum is gonna enjoy this. Edit 2: Lol Damage controls giving huge resists to hull... "Structure tanking 4tw?" with reinforced bulkheads + DC + large hull repper II?
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.10.05 15:43:00 - [3] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 05/10/2005 15:43:11 Have been waiting for this one... _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
TruthKeeper	Posted - 2005.10.05 15:43:00 - [4] Great Dev Blog.....go CCP!
Psym0n	Posted - 2005.10.05 15:45:00 - [5] Edited by: Psym0n on 05/10/2005 15:44:59 Shield Extenders increace signature raduis, hope frigs will not grow big stylee? Si _________________________________ _________________________________
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.05 15:48:00 - [6] Active hardners giving passive: Eh? Don't see the use. Passive hardeners better: Fair enough, 42.6% vs 50% makes passive look at low better on many setups which are capacitor-marginal. Extenders/Plates: Er, that's "nerfed". Anything which relies on speed (Frigates/Interceptors) would be mad to fit a plate (given the test values), and if the same sort of massive increase applies to sig radius, then NOTHING will want to mount shield extenders, because they'll just boost the damage they take - neatly offsetting the bonus. You're, basically giving with one hand and directly taking away with the other. Can you just put the values on them back to their PRE-boost value and then leave them the heck alone please? As it stands, you're going to seriously reduce their Damage Controls / Reinforced Bulkheads: whatever :P Decreased volume of Capacitor Booster Charges: And about time, too. New module available to decrease Signature Radius: Designed to offset the sig radius penalty of expanders? Ugh...I'd rather you just made invulnrability fields useful and left it at that rather than introducing a module to fix a problem you're creating, thus eating MORE mids for shield tanking. All ships will be tested with flat 25% more Hitpoints: This is a direct nerf to all smaller ships and to all ships which have a smaller capacitor - especially Muinmatar setups which often have a VERY marginal cap. Stacking Penalty: Will there still be a simple formular for it? Or will you release the chart for how this works, please? The issue with damage mods is that the RoF bonus, stacking, essentially means there IS no dimishing returns for damage mods at present...has this been taken into account? Are all the ships getting a balance pass to take all these changes into account? Lots of the minmatar ships, in particular, are going to suffer heavily from some of these changes. The Amarr, with their sustainable armour tanks, are laughing. Loudly. In my ear. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
SengH	Posted - 2005.10.05 15:57:00 - [7] will end up happening i think is that people are just going to load up on sig rad reducing modules + implants and then cross their fingers that they dont get hit. We'll have intys running around with a sigradius of 10m and not getting hit at all rather than the silly plateness thats happening.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.10.05 15:58:00 - [8] Originally by: SengH will end up happening i think is that people are just going to load up on sig rad reducing modules + implants and then cross their fingers that they dont get hit. We'll have intys running around with a sigradius of 10m and not getting hit at all rather than the silly plateness thats happening. Yes, but this introduces the need for expensive implants as opposed to reasonably cheap plates. Same effect in the end: unhittable inties. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:01:00 - [9] Sure, until you get webbed. Then you find you can STILL be splashed by enemy fire, and you've just lost a LOT of ISK. Shield/Armour is the ONLY way to survive a lot of situations. CCP appear to be balancing for the bleeding edge of pilots. That's BAD. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
SengH	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:02:00 - [10] Edited by: SengH on 05/10/2005 16:03:26 yes but the implants can be transferred from ship -> ship (assuming your pod gets out) and also transferrs bonuses to other ships too. Already if you know what your doing(with the sig rad reduction stuff) you can make a BC take few enuff hits from a gankgeddon(at its optimal), to tank it without any hardeners. Edit: the sig radius reduction modules will almost probably have to work on a % based level otherwise this will end in tears for sure.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:04:00 - [11] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/10/2005 16:04:27 For many of us, the lag involved in dying means we VERY rarely get our pods away. The only answer is not to die, unfortunately, which means these changes are going to force us away from a large number of smaller ships. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
SengH	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:06:00 - [12] Edited by: SengH on 05/10/2005 16:06:39 From what ive heard, the sig radius reduction implants apply to to pods too.... and increase the locking time considerably due to the funky exponential locking time formula ccp uses.
Rufus Roughneck	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:08:00 - [13] /me stocks up on halo implants
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:16:00 - [14] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/10/2005 16:18:00 Originally by: SengH Edited by: SengH on 05/10/2005 16:06:39 From what ive heard, the sig radius reduction implants apply to to pods too.... and increase the locking time considerably due to the funky exponential locking time formula ccp uses. Yea...unfortunately I've experienced lag of up to 15 seconds, and there are situations (warp bubble, smartbomb, etc.) when that won't help - losing 300+ mil of implants to this sort of lag is harsh and not something I (and others) are willing to risk. This is a near-irelevant sideline, though. It's related to changes which are not needed (if anything, just put plates back to their pre-boost state AND there's nothing wrong with the current shield expanders given their fitting reqs), and will (again) reduce the amount of viable ships and setups. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
SengH	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:16:00 - [15] Edited by: SengH on 05/10/2005 16:21:07 Fleet battles of the future If Sig radius reduction modules are mid slot Hi: All t2 guns Med: All Sig rad reduction Low: All dmg mod Gang BC + Halo implants + above setup Scorps: Meds all with TP2s Both fleets: WTF why isnt anyone dying Person X in fleet A: 1hr and 30mins to lock ARE YOU F*king kididng me Person Y in fleet A: Yay my full rack of sensor booster IIs only reduced lock time to 10 minutes person Y gets called primary and toasted* Fleet A: ahahahah sucker we told you to fit the stealth mods Primary in fleet B: LOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOL their whole fleet suxxors im not getting hit Raven user: wtf my cruises did 2 dmg to the battleship
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:24:00 - [16] And I thought I overreacted. Sheesh. As stated my concerns are basically limited to extenders/plates, the sig reducing modules (as related to the extenders) and hp increase. I either support or don't mind everything else (well, remote hull repairing is iffy, but I can certainly live with it). "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
SengH	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:26:00 - [17] Maya its cus you havent seen what sig radius reduction can do:P playing around with the gang modules.. its VERY scary... theres a reason why the devs nerfed skirmish warfare - evasive maneuvering to a -2% per level when everything else in its class got a 3% effect.
Bazman	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:30:00 - [18] Hmm. I wonder if anyone will start using damage controls after this change :P
Death Merchant	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:31:00 - [19] Active hardners giving passive: Um..ok. Passive hardeners better: Sounds good. Pottsey will love u long time. Extenders/Plates: Basically any frigate that puts on a mwd and a shield extender will have the sig radius of freighter? Damage Controls / Reinforced Bulkheads: Sounds good. Good to know their useful for something other than recycling. Decreased volume of Capacitor Booster Charges: My megathron thanks you. Now fix my blasters. New module available to decrease Signature Radius: My opinion is reserved till I see the fitting requirements and most importantly what slot does it fit in. All ships will be tested with flat 25% more Hitpoints: Being as I want to fly my blasterthron more, this is a good idea. However I think this boost along with the damage mod nerf is a bit too ambitious at the start. Stacking Penalty: There are alot of geddon and megathron pilots with maxed out damage mod configs. I hope the forums can take the onslaught. Please tell me your gonna lower the cap use on blasters/rails?
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:31:00 - [20] Originally by: SengH Maya its cus you havent seen what sig radius reduction can do:P playing around with the gang modules.. its VERY scary... theres a reason why the devs nerfed skirmish warfare - evasive maneuvering to a -2% per level when everything else in its class got a 3% effect. Okay. That's a very different concern to mine, though, and if they're midslot they do zero for inties which currently use plates and are standing square in the spotlight of this nerf. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
babylonstew	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:32:00 - [21] Originally by: SengH Edited by: SengH on 05/10/2005 16:22:43 Fleet battles of the future If Sig radius reduction modules are mid slot Hi: All t2 guns Med: All Sig rad reduction (would now work cus of the reduced stacking penalty) Low: All dmg mod Gang BC + Halo implants + above setup Scorps: Meds all with TP2s Both fleets: WTF why isnt anyone dying Person X in fleet A: 1hr and 30mins to lock ARE YOU F*king kididng me Person Y in fleet A: Yay my full rack of sensor booster IIs only reduced lock time to 10 minutes person Y gets called primary and toasted* Fleet A: ahahahah sucker we told you to fit the stealth mods Primary in fleet B: LOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOL their whole fleet suxxors im not getting hit Raven user: wtf my cruises did 2 dmg to the battleship the raven comment is both funny and very sad at the same time, not sure whtther to laugh or cry tbh actually, think ill cry
SengH	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:40:00 - [22] Edited by: SengH on 05/10/2005 16:41:18 Edited by: SengH on 05/10/2005 16:40:12 For all those that doubt me Halo Implant set: -20.7% reduction Gang Warfare module: -22.5% max (with the t2 implant) ------------------------------------------------------- -43.2% reduction in sig radius. This already would put some intys in the 12-14m sig radius range. Toss on another sig radius reduction module... or more... and you get the point.
Graelyn	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:48:00 - [23] Wow. We Amarr are about to become unstoppable. No, I'm not especially pleased about that. The plates/mass Shield/sig rad will ensure that everyone starts training up Amarr BS lvl5. Armor tankers will be slow and strong, while shield tankers will...er..die. Quickly. I feel really bad for the pirates right about now. Minister of Foreign Affairs - Aegis Militia Fleet Admiral/CEO - The Aeternus Crusade
Psych0	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:54:00 - [24] Edited by: Psych0 on 05/10/2005 16:56:14 I like all the changes and the new stuff but there is however 1 module i would like to see.. There are several modules to impact a gun ship to make it useless. Be it ecm so it cant lock, or the the disrupter so it cant hit however there is no modules to make that kind of impact on a missile boat. It will always be able to fire on you even if it cant lock you( FOF ). Only way to protect youreself from not being hit by missiles is by using defenders, but not all ships have launcher slots. All ships can use the modules that impact guns. So i would like to see the long missed point blank defense module :). Can only shoot down missiles launched at one self. Give the logistics ships a new bonus. They can shoot at all missiles launch at the gang with the point defense module or perhaps a new ship class ? :). And perhaps upgrade the FOF system so they will launch at any ship that are firing on any ship in the current gang.
Hanns	Posted - 2005.10.05 16:55:00 - [25] yarr.. interesting
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.10.05 17:25:00 - [26] Looks like you are trying to make combat last longer, yet at the same time prevent some of the uber-T2 frigates getting massive tanks I think combat has been pretty instantaneous, particularly with stacking damage mods and the increase in T2 usage. However, one question. Signature radii reduction. I can see that this would reduce things like targetting speed, and less chance to hit with tracking, but should it nerf missiles another time? In theory, the ships are not getting physically smaller if they mount this module, so perhaps missiles should be rebalanced to take into account the physical size of the ship? After all, a missile explosion cares not for the sensor appearence of a target, as it would for say targetting or tracking. I haven't seen if this is on the test server or not. But I would like to think that sig radius reduction modules would take the following form: Passive Low Slot: Decreases sig radius. Decreases armour resists. Passive Med Slot: Decreases sig radius. Decreases shield resists. Active Med Slow: Decrease sig radius more. Uses a concerning amount of cap to sustain. Would make things more tactical with resists and cap usage. Yet versatile enough for everyone to use. 23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC
Bazman	Posted - 2005.10.05 17:28:00 - [27] For the lub of god, please, please look at ECCM as well. All the changes will mean sweet FA if some newb in a frigate can come along and render you comepletely and utterly defenseless with a 50k isk racial jammer that has no countermeasure :P
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.10.05 17:30:00 - [28] This is perhaps a stupid question, but will these changes make their way into the changes to NPCs as well? If that's the case, might I suggest a boost to NPC bounties, given that now we'll be expending more ordnance to kill them. winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
Earthan	Posted - 2005.10.05 17:31:00 - [29] Sounds good to me. Tough i got more drastic view of the ultra short battles, so i am not sure if its good enough for my taste:) ***************************** A solution to gank/to much dmg.Plz read and reply.Make Eve more tactical!!
Earthan	Posted - 2005.10.05 17:37:00 - [30] Edited by: Earthan on 05/10/2005 17:45:34 Well if its how i understand it the hardening skill will change little for bs and cruisers , as both have enough cap:( Also if it hardens inactive active hardeners , the passive hardeners gonna get used even less. ***************************** A solution to gank/to much dmg.Plz read and reply.Make Eve more tactical!!

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