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Solu Ithikar
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Posted - 2005.10.05 21:10:00 -
[1]
I'm bored at work, so figured I'd give the dead horse another whack and see if I can think up a workable system for Bounty Hunting. We all know that Bounty Hunting is not a viable profession at present -- the only way to really do it results in you being a pirate that hunts other pirates.
So, how about this?
Licensed Bounty Hunting
Applying for a license
- Pilot must have 5.0 security rating to apply
- Incurring any negative security penalty revokes your license
- Incurring any negative security penalty also resets your security to 0.0
- Pilot will consent to have actions monitored at all times, including time spent in 0.0 space
For the licensed pilot
- License-holder may hunt any pilot who has both a negative security status and a bounty issued
- License-holder will incur no status penalty for attacking their targets in empire space (0.1 through 1.0)
Against the license holder
- Pirates may only be attacked in Empire space by license holders
- Concord will not intercede in a bounty hunter fight.
- Pirates have their negative standing reduced if killed by a Bounty Hunter (not sure how much)
Some further thoughts:
The idea is to make a system where a player can apply to DED for a license to hunt enemy pirates in empire space. I would like to see gangs of pirate hunters roaming the 0.4s, keeping the space-lanes open for normal use. Think of it as a counter to players who gate-camp 0.4, then go ratting to raise their security status.
A bounty hunter should have to uphold certain standards of the law. If they commit any act that results in a ding to their security status they are stripped of their license -- and moreover, are reset to 0.0 security. (Maybe this should be 'reset to -1 security with an automatic 100k bounty' -- it will allow your fellow hunters to keep you honest.) Hunters are not allowed to commit evil acts.
Furthermore they can't commit evil acts even in 0.0 space. By accepting the license they agree to be tracked. If they sneak out to no-man's land and trash some passing Iteron, they eat the same penalty as if they were in empire space: revocation of license and loss of security status.
We have to show some love for the pirates, though, so there are a couple provisions tacked on for you too. The biggest is that Concord won't intercede in a bounty hunter fight. Once they've opted to go vigilante and taken the law into their own hands, Concord stops defending them. So long as they have their pass they are fair game, even in empire space.
Also, I don't want a single Hunter to be able to gang up with a huge group of other non-Hunter players in order to sucker a pirate into a hideous losing battle. If the ganged non-hunters shoot first in empire space, Concord will respond appropriately by destroying them. The idea is to let Bounty Hunters and Pirates slug it out without making random noobs get in the middle of things.
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Helpdesk
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Posted - 2005.10.05 21:58:00 -
[2]
Sounds pretty good, though I have my doubts on if it will be implented.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.10.05 22:02:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Solu Ithikar For the licensed pilot [list] License-holder may hunt any pilot who has both a negative security status and a bounty issued
Hmm a licence to go on a random killing spree, interesting. There are a lot of people around with a bounty and a -1 sec status who arent actually pirates, yet theyd still be killable trough this system.
Atleast it would give us a reason to reach 5.0 sec standing i guess ^_^ ------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
H0ot
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Posted - 2005.10.05 22:14:00 -
[4]
I have been doing some very selective pirating, killing 1-2 ships a day. I found out that if I wanted to, I could quite easily have my sec status break even by just doing L4 kill missions on the side. Right now i've been hoovering around the 1.0 mark for over a week.
To cut a long story short - Not every pirate has -1.0 and a bounty and not every regular player has a clean record either. Also if something like this was to be implemented the entire bounty system would have to be revamped, as to stop players from cashing in on their own bounties using alts.
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ABOUTA BRAEK
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Posted - 2005.10.06 03:29:00 -
[5]
Quote:
# Pirates have their negative standing reduced if killed by a Bounty Hunter (not sure how much)
Could be abusable regardless of how low the gain is.
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Odet
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Posted - 2005.10.06 04:01:00 -
[6]
i would get a 5.0 just to abuse this system tbh.
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Fightz Zeen
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Posted - 2005.10.06 08:24:00 -
[7]
I donÆt think it's the right way to it. Bounty hunters hunt by achieving a in game network.
which means, that they donÆt hunt by name, but by random bounty. A player, informs the bounty hunter on an pirate in the an last seen place. The bounty hunter then estimates, if it's a job worth taking and then searches the location.
if a system like that, which is suggested here. Would after my opinion, skip the balance of pirate and bounty hunter in the bounty hunters direction. Which means that it would become a living hell for all pirates and that would destroy the lifeÆs of many "role playing pirates".
Im not a pirate, just for a note.
but it's better to say that I donÆt want it to bee to easy. resulting in a BIG decree in bounties!(law breakers)
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istasi
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Posted - 2005.10.06 09:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Solu Ithikar For the licensed pilot [list] License-holder may hunt any pilot who has both a negative security status and a bounty issued
Hmm a licence to go on a random killing spree, interesting. There are a lot of people around with a bounty and a -1 sec status who arent actually pirates, yet theyd still be killable trough this system.
Atleast it would give us a reason to reach 5.0 sec standing i guess ^_^
So what ?
If they have a -1 standing ... they have opened fire apon another player, if they got a bounty... Someone wants them dead for something they have done...
A bounty hunter is a guy that hunt people for the money on their face right ? No matter what crime they have done, so if the guy have a bad standing .. and have slept with the CEO's daughter, then got kicked from the corp, got a bounty on his face...
He's now bounty hunter food, until that bounty is gone...
However there should proberly be a above 1m bounty rule or something, just so people dont get hunted for only 1m ... and the bounty hunters themself shouldn't be allowed to put bounties on people ;)
This game needs more action to be honest, so with this ... and allow pirates to get into 1.0 systems, however if they just as much as lock another player concord will kill them...
Bad standing should be punished, shouldn't it ? ------------------------------ My doctor have tried to tell me serveral times that eve isn't the real world... Poor dude, and people says i need to see a doctor ? |
Ethidium Bromide
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Posted - 2005.10.06 09:48:00 -
[9]
great idea! *waves at verone*
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Beridox Raul
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Posted - 2005.10.06 14:43:00 -
[10]
You're very close to a workable system.
Being negavive or positive in sec status should have more meaning. Eve is in danger of providing more excitement for being ebil than social, as there seems to be an infestation of pirates and parasites throughout.
Time to let the hunters go forth and return the compliment.
I support this and hope the all seeing Devs have taken note.
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MiracleMaker
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Posted - 2005.10.06 15:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Solu Ithikar
License-holder may hunt any pilot who has both a negative security status and a bounty issued
One thing I think that would be needed is that bounty hunters Cannot place a bounty on someone's head. This would limit a possible exploit where the hunters just randomly find negative status pilots, place a bounty on them, then blow them up 5 minutes later. How could you ensure an alt of a hunter isn't able to do the same?
Some really good ideas here. _______________________________________________ Making Miracles, One pod at a time |
Yith Solarius
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Posted - 2005.10.06 15:18:00 -
[12]
Nice post and its good to see that people still want change to the bounty system as it one of the ugliest faults in eve (well that and the bpo lottery)
Personally I would do it differently and split the problem into 2 parts, heres my take on the solution.
Part 1 bounties: when a bounty is entered on a char, the money gets transferred to ded and the bounty is placed, the char now get a wanted symbol and the bounty prize (important so add "estimated bounty prize" to this number).
when the player is podded he drops a tag or a shard of dna or sommat' which the bounty hunter must take back to the closest ded station and hand over to an agent there.
when the agent recieves the dna he spawns automated mails to all the players who placed bounties saying: "soandso" is claiming the bounty on "whassisname" do you want to authorise payment
if the player denies payment then the money stays on the bounty.
Part 2 - kill contracts.
Very similar to your idea, the player can take out kill contracts on individualy players through concord agents, the standing with concord determines the choices of cantract availiable, 2 or above, single person contract, 4 or above gang contract(any one in gang with contract holder may freely engange), 6 or above full corp contract.
there. I would maybe also like to see sec increases for legal kills through a kill contract on low sec players so a bounty hunter can activly increase his sec through pvp
http://s1.doohoo.com/s1/203/7R3_final.jpg
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Caeden Nicomachean
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Posted - 2005.10.06 15:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Fightz Zeen I donÆt think it's the right way to it. Bounty hunters hunt by achieving a in game network.
which means, that they donÆt hunt by name, but by random bounty. A player, informs the bounty hunter on an pirate in the an last seen place. The bounty hunter then estimates, if it's a job worth taking and then searches the location.
if a system like that, which is suggested here. Would after my opinion, skip the balance of pirate and bounty hunter in the bounty hunters direction. Which means that it would become a living hell for all pirates and that would destroy the lifeÆs of many "role playing pirates".
The above comments are puzzling. I mean, do you know any bounty hunters? That is, people who make their living podding folks for bounties?
I'm not talking about some friend who nabbed a bounty once. Or someone who in their free time goes smashing up on pirates and doesn't mind whether they get any cash out of it. I'm talking about folks who don't mine, don't trade, don't get support from their corp - and turn a profit by hunting bounties.
Raise your hand if you know someone who manages this. Name them. This person must not be a pirate themselves.
I say these things because the comment of "skip the balance of pirate and bounty hunter" is odd. What balance? There simply is no current system at all, not for turning a profit, and not for maintaining a positive security rating - outside of supporting bounty hunter efforts via npcing, trading, mining, etc.
Pirating is obviously self sustainable without any ancillary activities.
Anyway, this one of the better systems I have seen so far. The devs have been given several ideas here, when can we hear from them about where they are with it?
- This issue seriously needs to be raised in priority, to the top 5 list and with resolution behind it.
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ParMizaN
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Posted - 2005.10.06 15:25:00 -
[14]
1: still doesnt fix the claiming of your own bounty. 2: Promotes sniping instead of traditional piracy: which imo is not a good way for the game to go.
Killing the rich and giving to me |
Lansfear
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Posted - 2005.10.06 17:07:00 -
[15]
Very impressive idea.
As to the promots sniping comment. I believe they are slightly fixing that with the next patch according to the new dev blog.
"bounty hunter should have to uphold certain standards of the law. If they commit any act that results in a ding to their security status they are stripped of their license -- and moreover, are reset to 0.0 security. (Maybe this should be 'reset to -1 security with an automatic 100k bounty' -- it will allow your fellow hunters to keep you honest.) Hunters are not allowed to commit evil acts."
This is a very bad part. If I'm in an alliance and my people need me to come help kill alliance enemies, this would eliminate me immediately from ever being a bounty hunter. 0.0 is lawless and should stay that way.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.10.06 17:40:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 06/10/2005 17:47:26 Seen many threads like this and so many discussions, and yet to nowhere
Why not, start a new thread with a plan on a "White Paper: On Bounty" and address all current problems to bounty, then another white paper on how to address those problems. At least, it is much easier to see everything as a whole rather than in parts, all over the forum.
Current problems that I see from what I have read so far (most probably I am wrong here) are:
1. Claiming bounty/self-killing. 2. Putting a bounty. 3. Criminals having the upper hand by just gate killing and easily getting away with it and victims can not do anything to them (need to make in-game mechanics favour victims as well as criminals, IMHO). 4. Criminal acts get more ISKs/hour compared to bounty hunters (bounty hunting is a bad profession compared to criminal activities). 5. Bounty problems with criminals and 0.0 PvPers.
and I guess so many more that I do not know of. Like I said, probably best someone more senior to start a new thread and write all the whinnings/problems.
♥
oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=232048 |
RedlegSA
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Posted - 2005.10.06 17:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: H0ot I have been doing some very selective pirating, killing 1-2 ships a day. I found out that if I wanted to, I could quite easily have my sec status break even by just doing L4 kill missions on the side. Right now i've been hoovering around the 1.0 mark for over a week.
So thats how you do that - that was confusing me when you were able to attack us . Unfortuantely, I missed that hunt . As I hear it though, you were quite successfull, at least in damage done
I see my character as staunchly law abiding and a bounty hunter system would be very enjoyable for me. I am reluctant to do so now as my sec status would suffer for one, and I am not very clear on who I can shoot and who I cannot. When I did shoot at a player pirate before I was destroyed by sentry guns. I would love the oppourtunity to role play a supporter of law and order and defend others against pirates without myself turning orange. I have seen others who state in thier bios that they are anti pirates who have negative security statuses, they could of course say anything in thier bios, but under the current system that would be the result.
I belive the most challenging and fulfilling task would be taking on gate camps - making travel safer, probably something I would do quite a bit
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Solu Ithikar
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Posted - 2005.10.06 18:59:00 -
[18]
Stopping in to say thank you to everyone contributing ideas and criticisms. Nearly all systems design work requires multiple stages of revision (I know I sure can't think of everything on the first pass), so all comments listed will help the second revision.
There was a comment regarding bounty hunters having to play it straight even in 0.0, and the system as-written impacting alliance warfare -- I didn't mention it, but it isn't my intention to recommend that the bounty license system supercede existing rules of combat in any way. Normal wardec rules would apply for alliance battles.
Simiarly if someone with high security attacks someone in your gang, you should be able to respond without penalty, regardless of their Wanted status.
I also saw some comments about pirates claiming their own bounties or abusing the suggested security status gain. Good catch; I'll try to think my way around it later (unless someone beats me to a solution). In truth there isn't a whole lot that can be done to stop someone from claiming a bounty on themselves (set up a 2nd character that they make into a hunter, then hunt themselves whenever a bounty is issued); right now the only thing preventing that sort of practice would be the aggrivation of doing it coupled with the monentary cost of clones. And as we all know, some people have wayyyy too much time and money on their hands...
Anyway, thanks, everyone. Keep the ideas coming. I particularly liked the idea of a white paper/unified thread for hashing out systems and complications; collaboration is rarely bad.
The Devs may never see it, and if they see it may not find it to their liking, but at least the design process is fun. :)
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Garreck
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Posted - 2005.10.06 19:39:00 -
[19]
Bloody brilliant. This should be put in the ideas forum where it might actually be looked at by somebody who matters. This is probably the best overall approach to developing the bounty hunter career I've seen to date.
Garreck
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
Idio T
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Posted - 2005.10.08 07:11:00 -
[20]
IMO, this is a great idea.
I think this would slow down a lot of the ôrandomö acts of violence without consequence. But not so much that pirates would think of it as a serious threat.
Not to mention, the goal of becoming a Bounty Hunter should be difficult to achieve, this would act as a personal status symbol for a lot of people.
My suggestions:
1: Placing a bounty should take time before the added bounty is added. Takes time for the ôpaperworkö to go threw per-se.
2: If a Bounty Hunter does lose his license he/she also is suspended for some time (two weeks) so people cant flip flop between pirate and bounty overnight.
3: Bounty Hunters cant gang with pirates period. ( If IÆm a cop, I cant affiliate myself with the Mafia without expecting to get in trouble. )
But again , I think this is a great idea, and would love to see it implemented in the next expansion,à
Frigate about it! |
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Chaz Pounder
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Posted - 2005.10.08 08:48:00 -
[21]
ekk then I want to skipp my -10 and it just say Pirate
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Tristran Sarmatae
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Posted - 2005.10.08 11:23:00 -
[22]
There are a lot of ways to become a bounty hunter, i like the idea but if you work really hard to get to 5.0 sec then get stripped of it cause you fire on a pirate without a bounty that would be bad. I discovered one system of bounty hunting today although im notsure if its use as it may be an exploit - you create a pirate website for use in EVE as a bounty hunter but to access pirates must add to trusted sites, and when this happens the owners can gain basic info on the characters like name, corp, roles and most importantly location
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Lady Lorna
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Posted - 2005.10.08 12:32:00 -
[23]
Nice idea!
I can see a bounty profession being much more viable if this were to be implemented. Simply because alot more people will have faith and confidence that when they place a bounty on someone there is a serious threat rather then a ego boost.
If this works well then bounties will be thrown on people alot more creating an increase in bounty hunters ;)
Also if pirates cannot enter empire space without penalty then niether can bounty hunters. 0.1 - 0.4 space will be alot more intense and interesting if this can work.
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Valshim Haldakauer
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Posted - 2005.10.08 13:12:00 -
[24]
Awesome idea... but if this rule will be applied, pirates will be no more in about 1 or 2 month.. |
dark1ing
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Posted - 2005.10.08 14:33:00 -
[25]
I really like this idea, like someone else before mentioned, i have a healthy sec rating but would like to get into pvp - without the risk of losing sec. i dont want to become a pirate, but would love to be able to chase down known pirates for the good of the universe (or something like that!)
If you're in a pub and a group of drunks start on your girlfriend does it make you a criminal if you defend her? i know in todays society it probably does make u a criminal but thats another arguement! :)
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Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.10.08 21:04:00 -
[26]
Originally by: istasi If they have a -1 standing ... they have opened fire apon another player, if they got a bounty... Someone wants them dead for something they have done...
Yeah I shot pirats and have a -1 sec rating. Someone thought it was funny to place a bounty on meh head. So am I a pirate?
Quote:
A bounty hunter is a guy that hunt people for the money on their face right ? No matter what crime they have done, so if the guy have a bad standing .. and have slept with the CEO's daughter, then got kicked from the corp, got a bounty on his face...
He's now bounty hunter food, until that bounty is gone...
Yeah, having sex is a crime in EVE.
Quote:
However there should proberly be a above 1m bounty rule or something, just so people dont get hunted for only 1m ... and the bounty hunters themself shouldn't be allowed to put bounties on people ;)
And bounty hunters shouldn't be able to talk to anyone, so their friends can't place any bountys!
Quote: Bad standing should be punished, shouldn't it ?
It's already beeing punished period.
This idea is crap! You can't make a living of bounty hunting. Noone will do 3-5 months of hardcore NPCing just to be able to PvP a bit, I'd rather kill the n00bs in lowsec and get a -10 sec rating. The system is highly abuseable.
It's very hard to claim a bounty. I got podded once in my entire EVE careea and that was due to horific lag, how much do good pirates get podded?
I don't see how bounty hunting can be fixed.
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Uriel Strongbow
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Posted - 2005.10.08 21:37:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Bruchpilot I don't see how bounty hunting can be fixed.
We have to approach it one step at a time, rather than getting drowned in far reaching issues that are too big a bite for the dev team to feel comfortable sitting down and really tackling right now. Today. At the next meeting around a table.
Mitigate security loss for hunting people with bounties.
Attack and solve that. Not philosophical issue about what is good and what is evil. Not who is a pirate and who is a knight in shining armor. Not how to keep the pirates from running. None of it.
- Mitigate security loss for hunting people with bounties.
Then we'll move on to the next stuff.
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RedlegSA
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Posted - 2005.10.09 14:34:00 -
[28]
Edited by: RedlegSA on 09/10/2005 14:35:01
Originally by: Bruchpilot Noone will do 3-5 months of hardcore NPCing just to be able to PvP a bit,
I for one would, Since this PvP would be on the right side of the law. This frankly would be a large part of my gameplay.
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.10.09 14:46:00 -
[29]
A good post, except one major thing I want to point out. +5.0 required? Not all of the eve community do agent missions or npc hunting. There should be some restrictions on a license, but that basically forces you to grind, which imo isn't what it should be about.
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
gamertrav
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Posted - 2005.10.11 07:20:00 -
[30]
Just wanted to say I am another person who would love to be able to get into pvp, but on the good side. Seems unfair that the pirates get all the pvp
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