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Karig'Ano Keikira
State War Academy Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 11:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
As stated in subject, I am thinking about moving into WH space, basically got bored and pissed of HS and options are lowsec (or remote NPC 0.0) vs WH - I cannot stand concepts of large 0.0 alliances, so that is out of question; to try and put things into perspective: - our corp is kinda minicorp, several people - initial investment is not a problem - main motivation is to be left reasonably alone in my hole :) cohabitation would be an option as would joining alliance, but on terms that pretty much say 'I leave you alone, you leave me alone, at least in this hole, if we meet somewhere else, well... :)' so I am looking for input about several things on whs: - how are things with invasion chances in small holes (say C1 or C2); I guess large well defended tower is pretty safe, but how about small one? does anyone bother bashing small tower in C1? (considering fuel supply for large pos in wh is pain) - any hard rules about WH connections? For example I am aware C4 never has k-space exit, but do C1s or C2s without k-space exit exist? anyone mapped such stuff? - other constructive input is welcome |
Sith1s Spectre
Sky Fighters Talocan United
134
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 11:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
In regards to invasion C1 - minimal chance, c2 pends on the hole (but you'll get alot of traffic)
Tower wise go large or go home and cover it in ecm mods
C1s and c2s ALWAYS have direct connections to K Space CCP please consider hats as a clothing option for our spaceship barbies.-á
Artist impression of what this could potentially be http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t66/ROBC5Z06/sithsig_zps86971c83.jpg |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
68
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Posted - 2013.05.07 12:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
For your endeavours, sounds like you want c4 with static c1/c2/c3. C4s in general are REALLY quiet, little to no disturbance most of the time, most c4-c4 wormholes re unpopulated (or better: not very interested in confrontations themselves) aswell.
c1-c3 always got one static to k-space, c2s also got another w-space static. Depending on how much action you look, you either go for a c4-c3 (one of the best carebear combinations for small corps- run c4 sites with 3-4 tengus and speedily farm the c3 with a solo tengu at the expense of a hard-to-roll c3) or for a c4-c2, for the more pvp in it - though your solo-c3-efforts will be the tiniest bit more complicated. However, with a c4-c2, you can also roll for a c2 with static highsec/c3 for anoms or logistics/hauling or roll for a c2 with static null/c5 for gas sucking and nullsec-pvp :)
You should avoid being the guy living in the c2, for general safety reasons :)
To the defense: Looking like a PITA to tear down, a tower is mostly safe. If people want you out, they'll archive it regardless of your efforts, so looking unattractive is all the effort really worthy.
Regards |
Kuning
Obstergo Polarized.
33
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Posted - 2013.05.07 12:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sith1s Spectre wrote:In regards to invasion C1 - minimal chance, c2 pends on the hole (but you'll get alot of traffic)
Tower wise go large or go home and cover it in ecm mods
C1s and c2s ALWAYS have direct connections to K Space
So do c3s |
Karig'Ano Keikira
State War Academy Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 13:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
thanks for info, so basically: - C2s are worst traffic wise (due to extra static to wh space), while C4s nested deep in wh space with no k exit (or ever better two holes in) are generally low-traffic areas - what is situation with wh <-> wh links (for example C1 <-> C4) - generally is it possible for C1 to have C4 (or higher) connections and if such (and what rules (if any) exists about those); also what would be mass limit of such wh? as k-space -> C1 or similar to k-space -> C4 ? |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
70
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 14:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/wormhole.html those are the sizes of the existing signatures. The chart is wrong in some numbers but you'll get the rough idea.
http://wormhol.es/ you can use that site with the IGB (ingame browser) to update your location and get all necessary information. Again, this site is very inaccurate regarding the intel part as of now. (Correct most of the time, but still)
the mass is restricted by the type. You can look that up for any static using http://www.staticmapper.com Use the lookup static in the middle and combine it with link #1 :)
And yes, many people are passing through c2s - especially c2 static something+c2 is sometimes 7 of those systems kitted together. |
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Anomalous Existence Disavowed.
117
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Posted - 2013.05.07 18:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/wormhole.html those are the sizes of the existing signatures. The chart is wrong in some numbers but you'll get the rough idea. http://wormhol.es/ you can use that site with the IGB (ingame browser) to update your location and get all necessary information. Again, this site is very inaccurate regarding the intel part as of now. (Correct most of the time, but still) the mass is restricted by the type. You can look that up for any static using http://www.staticmapper.comUse the lookup static in the middle and combine it with link #1 :) And yes, many people are passing through c2s - especially c2 static something+c2 is sometimes 7 of those systems kitted together. 2/L/2's are noted for their chain-forming tendencies, yes. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
411
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 01:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Go for a C3, easily doable with a small corp. Best to aim for a lowsec static, highsec ones generate far too much traffic.
Definately setup a large death-star POS, with loads of ECM. Especcially if you are looking to stay. That should dissuade all but the most determined invasion.
The main problem is finding one that isn't already claimed. Either search by pot-luck, or offer isk for people to find one that meets your criteria. Be sure to pay after though, EvE is full of people who will happily take your isk.
Best of luck. Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
204
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Posted - 2013.05.08 02:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Karig'Ano Keikira wrote:As stated in subject, I am thinking about moving into WH space, basically got bored and pissed of HS and options are lowsec (or remote NPC 0.0) vs WH - I cannot stand concepts of large 0.0 alliances, so that is out of question; to try and put things into perspective: - our corp is kinda minicorp, several people - initial investment is not a problem - main motivation is to be left reasonably alone in my hole :) cohabitation would be an option as would joining alliance, but on terms that pretty much say 'I leave you alone, you leave me alone, at least in this hole, if we meet somewhere else, well... :)' so I am looking for input about several things on whs: - how are things with invasion chances in small holes (say C1 or C2); I guess large well defended tower is pretty safe, but how about small one? does anyone bother bashing small tower in C1? (considering fuel supply for large pos in wh is pain) - any hard rules about WH connections? For example I am aware C4 never has k-space exit, but do C1s or C2s without k-space exit exist? anyone mapped such stuff? - other constructive input is welcome
Large tower with lots of guns. Make sure that they are actually online and loaded with ammo. Should someone like myself discover that you have online guns with no ammo in them, I will incap them to let you know that they have no ammo and that you should probably load them. And if you are lazy and cluster all of your guns together, I'll also be happy to launch bombs at them to demonstrate why that's a bad idea.
You will not be left alone in your hole. Especially on the lower end of things. C1-C3's see lots of traffic. The risk of getting invaded and your structures burned is directly proportional to how much you're willing to come out, PvP, and be good neighbors. Yes, you are going to lose ships. It is better to lose ships than to have to re-setup a PoS.
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Karig'Ano Keikira
State War Academy Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 08:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thx for input, few more things: - any ideas on which WH class can lead to which WH class? -> c4 does not connect to k-space, all other can -> however, any rules on wh <-> wh connections, I am getting contradict info on this, for example: - a) http://www.tigerears.org/2011/11/14/wormhole-types/ states that pretty much every WH can connect to other WH - b) http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/wormhole.html says that C1 can outbound connect only to C6 (and k-space), while it can get inbound connection from other WHs (but that would require someone else on the other side to open it) -> if b) is true, it would make C1 pretty much useless for habitation [and last thing I would want is static to C6 :} ]
slightly off topic: - bubbles last forever (unless destroyed)? - is it impossible to scan down and warp-to container anchored in space? (did some experiments on this myself and couldn't get lock on it with combat probes, but it sounds strange) - any WH alliances WH noob should be aware of? For example last time I tried bomber fishing in good space, I got 100-men fleet in response, hehe :) - how do people tolerate being terrorized by stealth bombers? :) needless to say I will not be able to stand face-to-face with any 'massive' fleet; 'afk cloakers' seem to work wonderfully in 0.0 space, but I guess WH guys do not consider it especially 'bad sport' |
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Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
71
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 09:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
bubbles last until destroyed. Containers anchored in deep space can't be scanned down, however, you can approach them quite easily with dscan and creating safespots along your warp route, normally takes forever and is part of a wormhole technique called 'hide your ceo's assets from him' Amongst the c2 wormhole-dwellers, there are some that you might want to avoid. As a rule of thumb, your bomber is safe as long as you do not see a sabre or ceptor/assault frigate/pirate frig (daredevil/dramiel) on dscan :> Be careful when engaging ventures, very few pilots actually do fit their ventures for bomberkilling. So make sure no venture ever comes within 13km of your bomber!
edit: removed the quote |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 09:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Karig'Ano Keikira wrote:Thx for input, few more things: - any ideas on which WH class can lead to which WH class? -> c4 does not connect to k-space, all other can -> however, any rules on wh <-> wh connections, I am getting contradict info on this, for example: - a) http://www.tigerears.org/2011/11/14/wormhole-types/ states that pretty much every WH can connect to other WH - b) http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/wormhole.html says that C1 can outbound connect only to C6 (and k-space), while it can get inbound connection from other WHs (but that would require someone else on the other side to open it) -> if b) is true, it would make C1 pretty much useless for habitation [and last thing I would want is static to C6 :} ]
In practice it doesn't matter. When you live in a wormhole you have to scan exits. Your own wormhole will always have a static exit (sometimes two) to either K-space or another wormhole. Static exits to other wormholes will always lead to the same class of wormhole. Similarlyly, static exits to low-sec always go somewhere in low-sec etc etc.
You will also regularly get connections from other wormholes that attach to yours because they have a static to your class of wormhole. There are some roaming connections that sort of randomly appear.
In all cases it doesn't matter to you *why* you are connected to XYZ, the only thing that matters, especially if you're doing something in your WH outside of the POS shields, is that you scan them down and either put a scout on them or make sure you know if the neighbours are active and likely to try something.
Quote: slightly off topic: - bubbles last forever (unless destroyed)?
Anchorable mobile bubbles do. Hictor bubbles last as long as you activate the module. Dictor bubbles last for 2 minutes.
Quote: - is it impossible to scan down and warp-to container anchored in space? (did some experiments on this myself and couldn't get lock on it with combat probes, but it sounds strange)
correct. EVE will eventually delete cans in space if you don't access them every now and then. I think it was a month.
Quote: - any WH alliances WH noob should be aware of? For example last time I tried bomber fishing in good space, I got 100-men fleet in response, hehe :)
Wormhole space is like null-sec. Everyone that isn't blue to you is going to kill you, regardless of corp or alliance. I seldom see large fleets in wormholes but seeing 5-10 guys roaming is common enough.
I wouldn't worry too much about people forming up to kill chase you around. in WH's it works a little differently than in null-sec in that respect. In WH's the PVP is a lot of cloaky "rabbit hunting". That takes patience. Instead of ramming a big-arse fleet up your patoosh like you get in null-sec, wormholers are more likely to come out of nowhere and ambush you with 1/2 dozen guys.
Quote: - how do people tolerate being terrorized by stealth bombers?
What I do when I'm ratting is have a falcon on standby cloaked off the entrance so I can hear the WH activate if someone comes in. Fortunately I live in a wormhole that often only has one exit. One guy in a bomber is going to die. if a fleet comes in then I'll see them on the entrance. If you don't use scouts and/or bubble your exit when you're ratting/mining then you're asking for trouble and probably deserve to get "educated".
What you mostly lose to bombers is haulers doing PI. I never even worry about that, tbh. When you're making 100mil a day on PI, losing a T1 hauler every now and then still gets you the last laugh.
As for AFK cloakers.... they're not bad sport in null-sec either. They serve a purpose and the fact that people find them irritating means only that their purpose is being served.
In wormholes cloaky is the name of the game. When i have time to go rabbit hunting I often put a cloaky in the neighbour's wormhole before they log on, scan all their sigs so I can find them without probes and then go do other things, especially if it's a small corp and I can put them all on my watch list. When I see that they start doing something I'll watch what they do and try to get a kill or two if I can. I think a lot of people in WH's PVP like this.
Overal, that's a lot of work and to be honest I'm not overly good at working solo but I do get the odd spectacular kill. |
grassy 420
Boris Johnson's Love Children
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 02:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Karig'Ano Keikira wrote:Thx for input, few more things: - any ideas on which WH class can lead to which WH class? -> c4 does not connect to k-space, all other can -> however, any rules on wh <-> wh connections, I am getting contradict info on this, for example: - a) http://www.tigerears.org/2011/11/14/wormhole-types/ states that pretty much every WH can connect to other WH - b) http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/wormhole.html says that C1 can outbound connect only to C6 (and k-space), while it can get inbound connection from other WHs (but that would require someone else on the other side to open it) -> if b) is true, it would make C1 pretty much useless for habitation [and last thing I would want is static to C6 :} ] slightly off topic: - bubbles last forever (unless destroyed)? - is it impossible to scan down and warp-to container anchored in space? (did some experiments on this myself and couldn't get lock on it with combat probes, but it sounds strange) - any WH alliances WH noob should be aware of? For example last time I tried bomber fishing in good space, I got 100-men fleet in response, hehe :) - how do people tolerate being terrorized by stealth bombers? :) needless to say I will not be able to stand face-to-face with any 'massive' fleet; 'afk cloakers' seem to work wonderfully in 0.0 space, but I guess WH guys do not consider it especially 'bad sport'
i would say a c2 with a c3 static. c4's are garbage .. sorry some scrub actually said that. but really. |
blood spine
Infinity Engine Sleeping Dragons
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 08:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:I wouldn't worry too much about people forming up to kill chase you around.
Dunno about that first part I would form a little fleet to chase you around especially if its a slow night |
Icarus Able
Pheonix Corp Selectus
21
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 20:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
i would say a c2 with a c3 static. c4's are garbage .. sorry some scrub actually said that. but really.[/quote]
Whats wrong with C4s? finding a C2 with a c3 static is hard and there are no other Wormholes that offer good static Options, |
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Anomalous Existence Disavowed.
121
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 23:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote: i would say a c2 with a c3 static. c4's are garbage .. sorry some scrub actually said that. but really.
Whats wrong with C4s? finding a C2 with a c3 static is hard and there are no other Wormholes that offer good static Options,[/quote] CORRECTION: LIVING in a C4 can be problematic, because you can wind up reliant on homesystem sites for income. On the other hand, having a static to C4 space is not bad at all. |
Icarus Able
Pheonix Corp Selectus
21
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 01:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:Icarus Able wrote: i would say a c2 with a c3 static. c4's are garbage .. sorry some scrub actually said that. but really.
Whats wrong with C4s? finding a C2 with a c3 static is hard and there are no other Wormholes that offer good static Options, CORRECTION: LIVING in a C4 can be problematic, because you can wind up reliant on homesystem sites for income. On the other hand, having a static to C4 space is not bad at all.[/quote]
Why? C4s have statics for C3s. SO if you arent capable of doing C5s it sounds like a good idea. |
Lexar Mundi
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
57
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Posted - 2013.06.09 11:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Karig'Ano Keikira wrote:As stated in subject, I am thinking about moving into WH space, basically got bored and pissed of HS and options are lowsec (or remote NPC 0.0) vs WH - I cannot stand concepts of large 0.0 alliances, so that is out of question; to try and put things into perspective: - our corp is kinda minicorp, several people - initial investment is not a problem - main motivation is to be left reasonably alone in my hole :) cohabitation would be an option as would joining alliance, but on terms that pretty much say 'I leave you alone, you leave me alone, at least in this hole, if we meet somewhere else, well... :)' so I am looking for input about several things on whs: - how are things with invasion chances in small holes (say C1 or C2); I guess large well defended tower is pretty safe, but how about small one? does anyone bother bashing small tower in C1? (considering fuel supply for large pos in wh is pain) - any hard rules about WH connections? For example I am aware C4 never has k-space exit, but do C1s or C2s without k-space exit exist? anyone mapped such stuff? - other constructive input is welcome
if you have 5 or 6 people that can run T3s and logi id do a C2 with a static C4 and some sort of Kspace static. |
Jon 1
Hexavalent Chromium Industries
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 14:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
If the "quiet life" is really what you are seeking for a smaller corp then consider a c3 with null sec static. Now hear me out! A lot of people will say these are crap, but our small corp has had huge success with this because as we all know most of null sec is basically empty with very little traffic. This means not many visitors via your static. On the rare occasions you connect with a heavily occupied null sec system, well, you just batten down the hatches and decide do do something else or at the very least exercise more caution. For the times you get a quiet null sec you have the opportunity to farm those 0.0 systems and nearby systems to your hearts content when your home c3 sleeper sites are running a bit low.
As for logistics, the big criticism of null sec statics seems to be that re-supply of fuel / ammo and shipping out loot is a pain in the ass because of the null sec static, but we have never found this to be a problem as on average every month we get more than sufficient k162 connections to low / high and other wormhole chains to empire space. It's just never been an issue thus far.
As an aside, i have unsuccessfully tried to get a loose alliance of null sec wh corps together but the interest is not there at the moment i guess. My idea would be for null sec static corps to share a chat or mailing list where they daily update there static exiting region into null sec, and if 2 corps happen to be close that day they might co-operate for roams or trade or other logistics, (one corp might have a useful k162 that the other does not for example)
All in all, if you're not too bothered by a relative lack of pvp but want a relatively 'safe' WH I thnk nul sec static is the way to go.
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Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1302
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 15:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jon 1 wrote:As an aside, i have unsuccessfully tried to get a loose alliance of null sec wh corps together but the interest is not there at the moment i guess. My idea would be for null sec static corps to share a chat or mailing list where they daily update there static exiting region into null sec, and if 2 corps happen to be close that day they might co-operate for roams or trade or other logistics, (one corp might have a useful k162 that the other does not for example)
Take it from me. That's difficult enough to do when an entire alliance has static highs. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
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