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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9193
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:17:00 -
[91] - Quote
Josefine Etrange wrote:Tippia wrote:Defying wrote:Once again you are wrong. Prove it. Has been proven countless times, and than again, the error margin may big enough so that you start complaining that it is not "reliable" ;-) btw, as a rule of thumb, 20% of your user base will login at peak times, so with peak of 63k we should have about 315,000 active accounts on tranquility, which leaves 195,000 accounts for china. Sounds very reasonable for me, but feel free to disagree.
By whose rule of thumb? Where is this rule derived from? Which games? I have never seen this rule cited anywhere else.
1 Kings 12:11
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1745
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:27:00 -
[92] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I am not the one that has to always be right. Most things are a matter of perspective.
This is where you fail and i do mean fail. Just like that cry of "you just have to be right", saying "Most things are a matter of perspective" is something that is ONLY said by people who tend to be wrong but tend to not be able to take responsibility for being wrong.
Quote: I am certainly not mad at other peoples perspectives. Things wont change until you change the way you look at things. I am happy with my current level of education or lack of even. I am happy I don't excel at trolling, should this be your standard for measuring your perceived intelligence.
If I were as smart as I really want to be, I certainly wouldn't waste my time with you or your troll friends.
What does bother me is the the clear pattern that yourself and the trolls like you demonstrate in thread after thread that you dislike or don't agree with. You continue to troll the topic to the point it becomes locked.
I would ask CCP and the moderators to lock less threads and send more trolls on vacation
And yet YOU (shocker lol) have had more attention from moderators than any of us had. And everyday you are in the exact same conflict, usually with people who think factually and reasonably.
Despite all of that, you can't internalize the simple fact that the common theme in all of these discussions is YOU? Have you ever stopped for a single second and though "hmmm, it might be my approach to posting that elicits that response"? If you had any ability to be honest with yourself, I believe you'd see what soooo many others (including me) are able to see about what you post.
You remind me of the divorced old rich lady who used to live down the street from me. My mother almost died laughing when she told us that the old lady told her "you know, I'm starting to think that after 9 divorces...it just might be me that's the problem". Even 20 years later I can recall the tears in my mothers eyes as she laughed as hard as she's ever laughed in shear astonishment.
If you ever can bring yourself to accept that most of the problem her is you, I to will laugh...in astonishment.
Back on topic, the game is fine, what you FEEL about the server is provably incorrect. Stop saying funny isht like that and people will stop laughing at you.
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1745
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:29:00 -
[93] - Quote
Josefine Etrange wrote:Tippia wrote:Defying wrote:Once again you are wrong. Prove it. Has been proven countless times, and than again, the error margin may big enough so that you start complaining that it is not "reliable" ;-) btw, as a rule of thumb, 20% of your user base will login at peak times, so with peak of 63k we should have about 315,000 active accounts on tranquility, which leaves 195,000 accounts for china. Sounds very reasonable for me, but feel free to disagree.
Point of order! Saying "it's been proven countless times" is not only NOT proof, but it tend to supports tthe other side of the argument (because it displays the fact that you CAN"T prove it).
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1745
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:32:00 -
[94] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
So are you ever going to address the facts and figures, or are you just going to keep trolling? Are you going to provide some reasoning why you prefer unfounded, unreasonable, and counter-factual guesses to actual data? Or are you just going to keep going after me because it's all you can still try (and fail just as much at)?
He'll have to keep trolling, because that's his last line of (ego) defense. If you're like me, you simply count his (and people like him) descent into blathering madness as a victory :) .
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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1119
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:40:00 -
[95] - Quote
Josefine Etrange wrote:Tippia wrote:Defying wrote:Once again you are wrong. Prove it. Has been proven countless times, and than again, the error margin may big enough so that you start complaining that it is not "reliable" ;-) btw, as a rule of thumb, 20% of your user base will login at peak times, so with peak of 63k we should have about 315,000 active accounts on tranquility, which leaves 195,000 accounts for china. Sounds very reasonable for me, but feel free to disagree.
I think you just sucked that rule of thumb from someplace other than your thumb. Cite a decent article on your rule of thumb, otherwise it's just your uninformed opinion and that does not qualify as a "rule of thumb".
Personnel Division Director --áBene Gesserit Chapterhouse
"The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another." - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:45:00 -
[96] - Quote
Yes because every single one of WoWs vaunted "12 million players" was a unique individual person, they didn't count second accounts in THAT picture no sir. Same with League of Legends and their x million players claims, they sure don't count smurf accounts or alts!
This is how MMO companies count "people", the number of monthly accounts logging in, or the number of monthly accounts PAYING THEM. They don't care if one person is logging in 100,000 of those accounts, its still 100,000 accounts. |
Concurssi Mellenar
The Scope Gallente Federation
69
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:45:00 -
[97] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Welcome to marketing. The numbers are always accounts, not people. Mainly because there's no reliable way of counting actual people GÇö at best, you can generalise numbers from polling data (which will have a significant self-selection bias among those with more accounts).
Quote:no reliable way of counting actual people What about credit card details? As I understand it, every account has credit card details tied to it, so just adjust for duplicate accounts that way. He who controls the veld, controls the universe. |
The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:46:00 -
[98] - Quote
Concurssi Mellenar wrote:Tippia wrote:Welcome to marketing. The numbers are always accounts, not people. Mainly because there's no reliable way of counting actual people GÇö at best, you can generalise numbers from polling data (which will have a significant self-selection bias among those with more accounts). Quote:no reliable way of counting actual people What about credit card details? As I understand it, every account has credit card details tied to it, so just adjust for duplicate accounts that way.
I pay 3 of my accounts with plex and they have no card data associated with them. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
474
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:12:00 -
[99] - Quote
Reading this thread has made me lose a few IQ points, which I cannot afford to lose. Some of the stuff stated in here is just so damn ridiculous, you cannot help just sitting here, staring at your screen, thinking... wtf did I just read? *removed inappropriate signature* - CCP Eterne |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
844
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:18:00 -
[100] - Quote
Concurssi Mellenar wrote:As I understand it, every account has credit card details tied to it, so just adjust for duplicate accounts that way.
You understand it wrong.
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Din Chao
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
232
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:25:00 -
[101] - Quote
Rarize Urkan wrote:Any final aprox number or persons playing eve? I don't have the time to read everything posted. It's either 500k, or you and Chribba. We're still working it out... |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1136
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:33:00 -
[102] - Quote
Just look at the stuff we know.
The game has 500k accounts, that's official. We also know that some people only have one account. So best case scenario, this game has 500k people playing it. Which, after 10 years, is pretty sad if you compare it to the competition. For example, WoW with its 9 million now, after 9 years, peak at 12 million, and most of those are 1-account-per-person, as each account allows up to 40 character slots. We also know that some people have up to 40 accounts or more. So, worst case scenario, or 12.5k people, way too low. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
Next, consider quality alongside quantity. Many of those characters are just alts, used for low-quality gameplay. Such as trading, where there is no interaction between characters - each character interacts with the market, not with each other. Some of those accounts are disposable scammer accounts, others are dummy accounts where a character is being trained up for sale at the Bazaar later, transport alts, mining alts, AFK L4 mission runner alts, etc. My point is, many of the accounts are being run for low quality gameplay, whereas in other MMOs there's no upside at using an alt to do this stuff, nor is there any need for an alt account.
Bottom line - EVE has 500k subs, but considerably fewer players. Conservatively, just taking an average of the people I know in-game, there's 2.3 accounts per player, which means EVE has 220k players. Which is even more pathetic than 500k. Many of those are used for the kind of gameplay that really doesn't add much to the game. Whereas in most other MMOs, players-to-accounts ratio is much closer to 1:1, and the characters have much more interaction. Either way, after 10 years, it's nothing particularly impressive. Especially if you consider the numbers that the competition is pulling down, and add to that the simple fact that graphically and in scale, and perhaps even lore-wise, EVE is a superior game. It could have been much, much, MUCH more if CCP stopped catering to the toxic minority and expanded to grab a larger chunk of the market. |
The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:37:00 -
[103] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Bunch of whiny annoying bullshit.
Except you missed the one key thing in CCPs numbers - its the ONLY MMO that has grown, year on year, for 10 years and is STILL GROWING. Name me another MMO that after 10 years hasn't died or shed a bunch of its subscribers? Name me another MMO that after 10 years has had over a dozen expansions that nobody has had to EVER pay for? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9199
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:38:00 -
[104] - Quote
Every MMO is "pretty sad" if you compare it to WoW. WoW is an outlier, and its level of success is unlikely to be repeated by an MMO for the forseeable future.
Also multi-accounting isn't exactly unknown in WoW, or in other MMOs come to that. It's just the CCP are much more open and liberal about supporting people who want to multi-account than most publishers.
1 Kings 12:11
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9199
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:40:00 -
[105] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: EVE is a superior game. It could have been much, much, MUCH more if CCP stopped catering to the toxic minority and expanded to grab a larger chunk of the market.
You mean EVE could have emulated the incredible success of Star Trek Online?
1 Kings 12:11
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baltec1
Bat Country
6235
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:40:00 -
[106] - Quote
Why cant people be happy that there are 500k accounts? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9199
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 13:46:00 -
[107] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Why cant people be happy that there are 500k accounts?
With the specific exception of WoW, pretty much every MMO publisher out there would be very happy with 500,000 paid accounts and a positive growth rate.
Mr Retief repeatedly calls this level of subscriptions "pathetic", but by this measure, there aren't even a handful of MMOs that aren't "pathetic". If he disagrees, I challenge him to list 5 paid subscription MMOs that have a number of subscriptions that isn't "pathetic".
1) World Of Warcraft 2) ? 3) ? 4) ? 5) ?
On a side note, the PvE grinder space MMO has been tried, twice, both times with an incredibly popular and well known IP, and both times it has failed spectacularly.
1 Kings 12:11
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baltec1
Bat Country
6235
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:47:00 -
[108] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Either way, after 10 years, it's nothing particularly impressive. Especially if you consider the numbers that the competition is pulling down
You mean all the stillbirths we have had over the last decade?
Yea, tell us more about how great all of those other MMOs are that have less population than jita and enjoyed the great success of a total collapse in their subs a few months after they launched.
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Arancar Australis
State War Academy Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:48:00 -
[109] - Quote
The smartarse reply is:
There is only 1 player actually playing EVE and we are just personalities from within that one player...we are all just from the same sick mind (Are we really just figments of Hilmar's mind?).
The easy reply:
Yes there are 500K subscribed accounts that are either active/inactive that can be logged onto EVE in total or spread out over the various timezones in the world (we've seen the server with 60K plus and we've seen server with less than 20K). But this is just accounts and does not point to that there are 500K individual players who can all log in at the same time.
So yes, there are 500K subscribed accounts, but there are not 500K people who individually play this game.
Really is a bit of a head scratcher why that is so hard to understand.
Edit: Just realised that there is no understanding involved when a troll is involved
Cheers,
AA |
The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:48:00 -
[110] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Especially if you consider the numbers that the competition is pulling down, and add to that the simple fact that graphically and in scale, and perhaps even lore-wise, EVE is a superior game. It could have been much, much, MUCH more if CCP stopped catering to the toxic minority and expanded to grab a larger chunk of the market.
Ok not including World of Warcraft, which is a huge anomaly and cannot be compared to ANY other mmo, which "competition" are you referring to here that is pulling down such impressive numbers? Also I was unaware there even were any other space based MMOs that could be counted as competition. |
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Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
826
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:59:00 -
[111] - Quote
Din Chao wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Currently online, on Tuesday in the middle of the work day here in the US:
Tranquility only: 50,983 And... how does that make you feel?
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! ...
People at the office turned to me ... breaking the peace for laughing in this dour cubicle.
Flawless ... Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
603
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 14:05:00 -
[112] - Quote
... confirming my external validation for the OP, it takes alot of guts to "come out" on something like a flatulence fetish. What colour ribbon is that ?
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14109
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Posted - 2013.05.08 14:13:00 -
[113] - Quote
Rarize Urkan wrote:Any final aprox number or persons playing eve? I don't have the time to read everything posted. None exist. The best guesstimates I've ever seen anyone being able to offer (including CCP) is that there's an average of 2-¦0.5 accounts per playerGǪ and yes, that's a huge margin of error (not to mention that this was for TQ alone somewhere back in 2008, so who knows what it might be today across both servers).
Concurssi Mellenar wrote:What about credit card details? As I understand it, every account has credit card details tied to it, so just adjust for duplicate accounts that way. You can start a trial without a CC, and you can turn it into a full account using PLEX. No person-specific payment option ever needs to touch it.
Arancar Australis wrote:So yes, there are 500K subscribed accounts, but there are not 500K people who individually play this game.
Really is a bit of a head scratcher why that is so hard to understand. The problem is really one of language. PR tends to want to phrase it in terms of GÇ£peopleGÇ¥, not accounts, whereas reps with some kind of grasp of legalese might be more inclined to just say GÇ£accountsGÇ¥ and not particularly care about how many individuals there are behind them. This sloppiness and mixing of terms then spreads to the community at large. It matters for risk exposure, but that's about it.
It's the same problem you see with space population numbers: the graphs are often labelled as GÇ£people in X-secGÇ¥, but if you check the data, it's always accounts (a confusion that then leads to the common, unfounded GÇ£a majorify of players are in highsecGÇ¥ claim). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1745
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Posted - 2013.05.08 14:15:00 -
[114] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:baltec1 wrote:Why cant people be happy that there are 500k accounts? With the specific exception of WoW, pretty much every MMO publisher out there would be very happy with 500,000 paid accounts and a positive growth rate. Mr Retief repeatedly calls this level of subscriptions "pathetic", but by this measure, there aren't even a handful of MMOs that aren't "pathetic". If he disagrees, I challenge him to list 5 paid subscription MMOs that have a number of subscriptions that isn't "pathetic". 1) World Of Warcraft 2) ? 3) ? 4) ? 5) ? On a side note, the PvE grinder space MMO has been tried, twice, both times with an incredibly popular and well known IP, and both times it has failed spectacularly.
"Mr. Retief" tends to confuse what he wants the game to look like with what the rest of the MMO world looks like. He's the king of the "EVE would get so many more subscribers if.....it just wasn't EVE anymore.
EVe "only has 500k subs". Compare this to the DEAD, SHUTDOWN MMOs left in it's 10 year wake (all of which have exactly 0 subs) and I think that's pretty good lol.
But of course i would think that's pretty good, because unlike some I actually like EVE :).
i've asked the question before and never got a god answer, but I'll ask them again, what do you "moar subs" people think the game will gain if 9 million people play?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14110
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Posted - 2013.05.08 14:18:00 -
[115] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:i've asked the question before and never got a god answer, but I'll ask them again, what do you "moar subs" people think the game will gain if 9 million people play? Jita spread over 18 instances, with a total of 35k local-spam bots between them, of course.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
AndromacheDarkstar
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
739
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Posted - 2013.05.08 14:19:00 -
[116] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:What do you mean nerf highsec?
I want to do something unspeakable to your avatar. Join the ZC Pub chat channel today and talk about joining-áZebra corp, hands down the best PVP corp in EVE keeping CFC killboards in the green singlehandedly |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9204
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Posted - 2013.05.08 14:19:00 -
[117] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: i've asked the question before and never got a god answer, but I'll ask them again, what do you "moar subs" people think the game will gain if 9 million people play?
Enough money for CCP to develop it into something even less like EVE.
Much like Blizzard made WoW less WoWier with all that money
1 Kings 12:11
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Arancar Australis
State War Academy Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2013.05.08 14:21:00 -
[118] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Arancar Australis wrote:So yes, there are 500K subscribed accounts, but there are not 500K people who individually play this game.
Really is a bit of a head scratcher why that is so hard to understand. The problem is really one of language. PR tends to want to phrase it in terms of GÇ£peopleGÇ¥, not accounts, whereas reps with some kind of grasp of legalese might be more inclined to just say GÇ£accountsGÇ¥ and not particularly care about how many individuals there are behind them. This sloppiness and mixing of terms then spreads to the community at large. It matters for risk exposure, but that's about it. It's the same problem you see with space population numbers: the graphs are often labelled as GÇ£people in X-secGÇ¥, but if you check the data, it's always accounts (a confusion that then leads to the common, unfounded GÇ£a majorify of players are in highsecGÇ¥ claim).
See i made the mistake to that we are all intelligent enough people who play this game, to be able to work this out...but then i look at Goons and i get a reality check (i kid i kid...there just wasn't enough Goon bashing in this thread)
PR departments will always want to put the best possible spin on why their game is performing so well. True figures will never be used as they will be a shadow of the reported numbers, so why remove alt accounts.
Either way, we subscribe to play a game that we enjoy to play and to allow it to frustrate ourselves. |
Arancar Australis
State War Academy Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2013.05.08 14:22:00 -
[119] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Malcanis wrote:baltec1 wrote:Why cant people be happy that there are 500k accounts? With the specific exception of WoW, pretty much every MMO publisher out there would be very happy with 500,000 paid accounts and a positive growth rate. Mr Retief repeatedly calls this level of subscriptions "pathetic", but by this measure, there aren't even a handful of MMOs that aren't "pathetic". If he disagrees, I challenge him to list 5 paid subscription MMOs that have a number of subscriptions that isn't "pathetic". 1) World Of Warcraft 2) ? 3) ? 4) ? 5) ? On a side note, the PvE grinder space MMO has been tried, twice, both times with an incredibly popular and well known IP, and both times it has failed spectacularly. "Mr. Retief" tends to confuse what he wants the game to look like with what the rest of the MMO world looks like. He's the king of the "EVE would get so many more subscribers if.....it just wasn't EVE anymore. EVe "only has 500k subs". Compare this to the DEAD, SHUTDOWN MMOs left in it's 10 year wake (all of which have exactly 0 subs) and I think that's pretty good lol. But of course i would think that's pretty good, because unlike some I actually like EVE :). i've asked the question before and never got a good answer, but I'll ask them again, what do you "moar subs" people think the game will gain if 9 million people play? Edited because I don't ant a GOD answer.
More miners to gank in belts? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9205
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Posted - 2013.05.08 14:26:00 -
[120] - Quote
Arancar Australis wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Malcanis wrote:baltec1 wrote:Why cant people be happy that there are 500k accounts? With the specific exception of WoW, pretty much every MMO publisher out there would be very happy with 500,000 paid accounts and a positive growth rate. Mr Retief repeatedly calls this level of subscriptions "pathetic", but by this measure, there aren't even a handful of MMOs that aren't "pathetic". If he disagrees, I challenge him to list 5 paid subscription MMOs that have a number of subscriptions that isn't "pathetic". 1) World Of Warcraft 2) ? 3) ? 4) ? 5) ? On a side note, the PvE grinder space MMO has been tried, twice, both times with an incredibly popular and well known IP, and both times it has failed spectacularly. "Mr. Retief" tends to confuse what he wants the game to look like with what the rest of the MMO world looks like. He's the king of the "EVE would get so many more subscribers if.....it just wasn't EVE anymore. EVe "only has 500k subs". Compare this to the DEAD, SHUTDOWN MMOs left in it's 10 year wake (all of which have exactly 0 subs) and I think that's pretty good lol. But of course i would think that's pretty good, because unlike some I actually like EVE :). i've asked the question before and never got a good answer, but I'll ask them again, what do you "moar subs" people think the game will gain if 9 million people play? Edited because I don't ant a GOD answer. More miners to gank in belts?
That is exactly what Mr Retief wants stopped.
1 Kings 12:11
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