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Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
909
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 16:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
According to my friend who plays WoW, here is the problem.
Lately, WoW has been making the game even more casual friendly than it already was, and by casual I mean like, everyone can be really good at it in 10 minutes. Something similar to the skill level required to play most smartphone games. Basically, the game has been getting dumbed down heavily. So why would this be driving away players?
Problem is, even if you are doing a lot to make the game casual friendly, most casual players aren't going to be willing to fork over 15 dollars a month just to play, let alone the hundreds of dollars for all of the expansioins.
Because of this, all Blizzard is doing is making the game less appealing to the dedicated gamers and hardcore gamers that like the challenges and not having everything handed to them (and most importantly, are willing to pay to play) while failing to gain more casual gamers.
Basically, Blizzard will either have to make the game free to play (with microtransactions) or stop dumbing the game down. Otherwise, WoW will crash and burn.
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
214
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Posted - 2013.05.10 16:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
I can honestly say that as assassin troll I thoroughly enjoyed my first few months in WoW just exploring all the areas I should not be due to my level and/or horde affiliation via smoke screen and sprint lol After i had seen the whole world by level 20 and killed very little I got into the proving grounds pvp and had tremendous fun. After that wore off I started asking for pvp games and my brother in law said he had been playing this game called EvE online. I downloaded that night at the beach and the rest is part of my gaming history.
Even the most basic of players will get tired of easy games once they accomplish all they want. Luckily for WoW their game will be able to cross generations and will take over a decade more before it fizzles out, if ever.
Fake Edit: ^ Nothing but personal opinion |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
540
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 17:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:According to my friend who plays WoW, here is the problem.
Lately, WoW has been making the game even more casual friendly than it already was, and by casual I mean like, everyone can be really good at it in 10 minutes. Something similar to the skill level required to play most smartphone games. Basically, the game has been getting dumbed down heavily. So why would this be driving away players?
Problem is, even if you are doing a lot to make the game casual friendly, most casual players aren't going to be willing to fork over 15 dollars a month just to play, let alone the hundreds of dollars for all of the expansioins.
Because of this, all Blizzard is doing is making the game less appealing to the dedicated gamers and hardcore gamers that like the challenges and not having everything handed to them (and most importantly, are willing to pay to play) while failing to gain more casual gamers.
Basically, Blizzard will either have to make the game free to play (with microtransactions) or stop dumbing the game down. Otherwise, WoW will crash and burn.
This is at best, severely grasping speculation.
"hardcore gamers" was a surprisingly small minority of Wow players. Even in classic many servers never even killed Kel Thuzad because naxxramas was just too hard. It was the hardest raid instance blizzard ever made and the result was that most people never experienced the content that they developed.
Looking back. Classic WoW was a nightmare.
Quests like escorting Marshal Windsor in BRD and the endless attunement chains were damaging to the game itself.
On top of that the classes were a complete mess. Warriors were near useless for pvp. Warlocks were practically indestructible. No functional pvp trinkets. No diminishing returns on crowd controls.
Warrior was the only tank class in the game until Wrath of the Lich King arrived. Yes Druids and Paladins could tank in theory but druids had no protection against crushing blows and the Paladins kept running out of mana.
Paladins, Priests and Warriors had no functional DPS spec until Wrath. Warriors could deal damage but had no aggro control until WOTLK brought passive aggro reduction to all non tanks.
Priest and Druid were the only healing Classes in classic but the druid had no proper resurrection spell so anyone who died had to run from the graveyard. Paladins only job was to cast blessings and off-heal. The game had 6 different Paladin blessings that lasted for 5 minutes each and had to be cast on each player individually. That means that in a raid of 40 people. About 240 blessings had to be handed out every 5 minutes and the Paladins had to coordinate it between themselves who blessed who with what.
The game has only been getting better and better with every expansion. Blizzard had not scared away players. The players have just moved on.
I have personally probably stopped playing a dozen MMOs and hundreds of games. Not because the games turned bad but because I got bored of them.
When people switch games they don't do it because the games "turned bad" they just get bored of the same thing.
Metroid on the nes was one of the most fun games I ever played in my life but the reason I haven't played it for about 20 years isn't because the game turned bad.
We miss you Saede. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1674
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 17:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
'Player investment' is kinda important. People tend not to value things that come to them easily. Which kinda explains why EVE tends to have such a loyal base - You have to work at it to establish a real base in EVE, whereas easy theme-park games don't engage as deeply, so don't generate the same levels of investment.
IF* WoW is reducing the needed levels of effort to achieve goals which older players reached years ago, well, they're going to alienate the current base do a degree**, and fail to engage new player investment - Neither of which is a good thing.
* I wouldn't know - I don't play WoW. ** Older players will still be invested, so relatively few will actually leave, but they will stop passing positive word-of-mouth. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Slymah
33 RD Li3 Federation
115
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 17:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
They could lose multi-millions more subs and still be fine .. and still lead the mmo subscription race.
Even if WoW did take a turn for the worst and die in a fire .. Titan isn't too far off and Blizz will take over the industry again. |
Adela Talvanen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 21:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
Daimon Kaiera wrote:Eve is dying.
According to this forum Eve has been dying for years. |
Eurydia Vespasian
Nova Insula Mining and Industrial
2504
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 21:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Adela Talvanen wrote:Daimon Kaiera wrote:Eve is dying. According to this forum Eve has been dying for years.
they've been saying the same thing about WoW on their forums too for years. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Tribal Band
505
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
If you look at the numbers of people unsubscribing from WoW, it looks like it's dying. If you look at the numbers of people subscribing, it looks like it's struck a gold mine. But what's really happening is old players are quitting and new players are joining. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. |
Aragoni
Revolutionary Front New Creation Collective
46
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
The game will not die anytime soon as Blizzard will keep pushing out expansions for the game that brings back the sheep to the flock (even if it's only for a month or two). But of course, it's inevitable that a game that is soon 10 years old without adding something revolutionary will shrink in subscribers.
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baltec1
Bat Country
6325
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:10:00 -
[40] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
We will never really know that until we find out what share of the accounts are alt accounts. Eve greatly rewards people for having multiple accounts. It also punishes people for not doing so by making it impossible to train more than one character per account at the same time. The Campaign to make people get "a second pilot" has been pretty fierce as of late.
But then Eve as a whole is a drop in the ocean compared to the financial figures WoW handles.
I cant think of any MMO that will let you train more than one character on an account. |
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Eurydia Vespasian
Nova Insula Mining and Industrial
2510
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 22:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
age of conan |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
560
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 12:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:
We will never really know that until we find out what share of the accounts are alt accounts. Eve greatly rewards people for having multiple accounts. It also punishes people for not doing so by making it impossible to train more than one character per account at the same time. The Campaign to make people get "a second pilot" has been pretty fierce as of late.
But then Eve as a whole is a drop in the ocean compared to the financial figures WoW handles.
I cant think of any MMO that will let you train more than one character on an account.
Any besides eve it seems.
Take Wow for example.
In one account I have:
A paladin that I use for PVE, heroics, raids, RP, Enchanting A Hunter I use for PVP and Jewelcrafting A Druid I use to Mine and gather herbs A Death Knight that that has alchemy A Warrior that is a blacksmith
I log into the Paladin, do heroics, make my way through the "looking for raid" raids. Make the weekly valour cap and then raid the molten core for some RP stuff.
I can then log into the hunter, do a few battlegrounds, reach the conquest cap in the Arena.
If I need flasks or potions I can gather herbs on my druid and then send them to the Death Knight to make the flasks.
If I need gems I can mine ore on mu druid and then send the ore and gems to my hunter to make the gems.
if I need armor made I can mine ores on my druid and send the materials to my Warrior that then crafts it.
All of this is one account, one subscription and all characters are played to their full potential. Just because an Eve characters skill points tic 24 hours a day does not mean that there's no more real life time room for other characters.
I usually do all that in two evenings or one Saturday.
What's the eve equivalent of all I just mentioned?
The Paladin would probably equate a mission runner or some incursion stuff. the Hunter a null pvp character The druid is a miner/salvager/hacker The death knight and Warrior and the hunter+ paladins professions probably equate to some industry alts that are locked down in stations or pos's. Building/researching
Just because CCP figured out that they could charge you for each character doesn't mean that you couldn't juggle the lot of them on the same account in practise. But CCP are brilliant for making you think so.
Personally I wouldn't mind being able to train 4 characters on one account at the same time.
I could have one miner alt, a scanner alt, I would totally have an alt for building stuff.
But then CCP would never implement that when they can charge for 4 subscriptions to give me that. Plus it means they have an extra 3 subscriptions to inflate their numbers to show off for the stockholders.
I am personally surprised that people are so accepting of the current system.
Could you imagine if you could only do one of the things I mentioned above per Wow account?
Like either have a PVE character or a PVP character. Or needing a separate account for your crafter and gathered. People would flip if they tried that. We miss you Saede. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
4956
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:baltec1 wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:
We will never really know that until we find out what share of the accounts are alt accounts. Eve greatly rewards people for having multiple accounts. It also punishes people for not doing so by making it impossible to train more than one character per account at the same time. The Campaign to make people get "a second pilot" has been pretty fierce as of late.
But then Eve as a whole is a drop in the ocean compared to the financial figures WoW handles.
I cant think of any MMO that will let you train more than one character on an account. Any besides eve it seems. Take Wow for example. In one account I have: A paladin that I use for PVE, heroics, raids, RP, Enchanting A Hunter I use for PVP and Jewelcrafting A Druid I use to Mine and gather herbs A Death Knight that that has alchemy A Warrior that is a blacksmith I log into the Paladin, do heroics, make my way through the "looking for raid" raids. Make the weekly valour cap and then raid the molten core for some RP stuff. I can then log into the hunter, do a few battlegrounds, reach the conquest cap in the Arena. If I need flasks or potions I can gather herbs on my druid and then send them to the Death Knight to make the flasks. If I need gems I can mine ore on mu druid and then send the ore and gems to my hunter to make the gems. if I need armor made I can mine ores on my druid and send the materials to my Warrior that then crafts it. All of this is one account, one subscription and all characters are played to their full potential. Just because an Eve characters skill points tic 24 hours a day does not mean that there's no more real life time room for other characters. I usually do all that in two evenings or one Saturday. What's the eve equivalent of all I just mentioned? The Paladin would probably equate a mission runner or some incursion stuff. the Hunter a null pvp character The druid is a miner/salvager/hacker The death knight and Warrior and the hunter+ paladins professions probably equate to some industry alts that are locked down in stations or pos's. Building/researching Just because CCP figured out that they could charge you for each character doesn't mean that you couldn't juggle the lot of them on the same account in practise. But CCP are brilliant for making you think so. Personally I wouldn't mind being able to train 4 characters on one account at the same time. I could have one miner alt, a scanner alt, I would totally have an alt for building stuff. But then CCP would never implement that when they can charge for 4 subscriptions to give me that. Plus it means they have an extra 3 subscriptions to inflate their numbers to show off for the stockholders. I am personally surprised that people are so accepting of the current system. Could you imagine if you could only do one of the things I mentioned above per Wow account? Like either have a PVE character or a PVP character. Or needing a separate account for your crafter and gathered. People would flip if they tried that. He obviously meant to say that: "I can't think of any MMO that will let you train more than one character on an account at the same time.", since it's what you said and he was responging to you. Even EVE allows you to train more than one character on an account. You just train them at different times just like in your example about WoW.
The likely reason why you have problems accepting the system is, because you try to compare to a game, that functions completely differently. There are no EVE equivalents to WoW characters. EVE characters can do it all and have no artificial caps to what skills they can learn and what ships they can fly. It's actually quite easy to do almost every major activity in EVE on a single character. It's the specializations, that take time to learn, but they're not necessary to get into an activity. It's specifically designed this way, because they didn't want everyone to be perfect at everything and wanted people to form corporations where people would have to rely on each other. You can bypass this limitation, but you're going to have to pay for it one way or another.
It's a natural way to do things in EVE, since this is a sandbox where player interaction is everything. Having easy to access fully specialized alts of all accounts, that have no limits on what they can learn or do isn't good for EVE. It would just mean less variation between accounts and less reliance on other players. In WoW classes are from the start limited in what they can ever learn and personal/small group themepark rides are the main focus, so a similar approach doesn't make much sense from a business perspective. The players would be bored to death of it very quickly, since the characters are so limited and the limit is so easy to reach. For them those extra characters are needed to keep people subscribed to the game. |
Rain6639
Team Evil
360
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 13:44:00 -
[44] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Do you think Eve should be worried? I would like everyone to know I have added a sixth account, and I remain confident that with our scamming and market trading practice, a Save Ferris EVE fund can be organized EDM? you mean EFM | what did you just call me? |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
561
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 14:23:00 -
[45] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:He obviously meant to say that: "I can't think of any MMO that will let you train more than one character on an account at the same time.", since it's what you said and he was responging to you. Even EVE allows you to train more than one character on an account. You just train them at different times just like in your example about WoW.
The likely reason why you have problems accepting the system is, because you try to compare to a game, that functions completely differently. There are no EVE equivalents to WoW characters. EVE characters can do it all and have no artificial caps to what skills they can learn and what ships they can fly. It's actually quite easy to do almost every major activity in EVE on a single character. It's the specializations, that take time to learn, but they're not necessary to get into an activity. It's specifically designed this way, because they didn't want everyone to be perfect at everything and wanted people to form corporations where people would have to rely on each other. You can bypass this limitation, but you're going to have to pay for it one way or another.
It's a natural way to do things in EVE, since this is a sandbox where player interaction is everything. Having easy to access fully specialized alts of all accounts, that have no limits on what they can learn or do isn't good for EVE. It would just mean less variation between accounts and less reliance on other players. In WoW classes are from the start limited in what they can ever learn and personal/small group themepark rides are the main focus, so a similar approach doesn't make much sense from a business perspective. The players would be bored to death of it very quickly, since the characters are so limited and the limit is so easy to reach. For them those extra characters are needed to keep people subscribed to the game.
You make the misstake of assuming that the physical levelling of the character is the total of the characters progression. in WoW character progression is very condensed. Both Eve and WoW discourage extreme grinding for character progression through their systems of progression.
in WoW you level your character through your gear while in Eve you level through the passive increasing of the skills.
Take PVE and PVP in WoW. You do your raids and cap your valor points and that's it. Your progression is "done" for the week. There's nothing else you can do to rush your characters progression for the remainder of the week.
The eve equivalent is that the skills level at the rate they do and there's nothing you can do to rush it beyond the boundaries set by the game.
The difference is that after you finished one characters progression in WoW for that week. You can still work on another character on the same account. Maybe do the raids on an alt or cap the arena on an alt or have multiple characters with crafting professions.
But eve doesn't have that option. It only allows you to progress one character per account at the same time and the reason for this is "cause" and then done. And for some reason people accept that.
It's like if WoW had one weekly raid cooldown for the whole account or one valor cap or conquest cap for the whole account. in Eve people counter this by just making more accounts and then progress on more characters by having more accounts which is bypassing a mechanic who's only reason to exist is to make us get more accounts. We miss you Saede. |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
838
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 18:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
Daimon Kaiera wrote:Eve is dying.
So far with a quick google search , at least since May 2007 when someone was commenting in Gamespot "EVE IS DYING", answering someone else saying the space genre was dying too.
Yep.
Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
853
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 18:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
This song, for this thread ... Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Ranzabar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 03:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
Panda BS killed it Abide |
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