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Major Killz
189
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Posted - 2013.05.11 15:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
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Adeleine
Sateenvarjo
1
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Posted - 2013.05.17 14:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
How about giving carrot instead of stick to fix this;
1 = fixing the risk vs reward on the bigger ship sizes.
1A. Bump up the IHub LP rewards to decent level. At current lvl; you get same as you would get from taking small solo. So zero or two in the end should do it.
1B. Add defence reward for Ihubs under attack. Lets say 10 times more LP per kill while IHub Armor is damaged.
2 = fixing the outside interfearance in the empire space.
2A. Add LP reward to all pirates (aka neutrals) in the FW area. About half of what you get from WT should be sufficient.
2B. Add LP reward to pirate and neutral POS in FW area. About half of what you get from Ihub would be sufficient.
2C. Pirates (aka neutrals) dont get any LP and get the normal security penalty plus addidional faction penalty for all kills.
3 = fixing the risk vs reward for joining FW as high sec mission runner.
3A. When WT enters opposite faction space he is classified as illegal immigrant and targeted and shot at in 1 sec by police, customs, faction navies and gate guns.
3B. When killing someone in opposite factions space, even if it is an WT. Normal security penalties apply and standings loss happens directly to the empire faction. (Instead of made up wannabe navy corp.)
4 = fixing the dullness of plexing & making bigger ships more needed
4A. Cutting the plexing time to half.
4B. Adding random number between 1-5 faction ships to sites, each the same size as the site maximum. Doubling their damage. Making them spawn more often even in the middle of plexing.
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Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
189
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Posted - 2013.05.17 20:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Adeleine wrote:How about giving carrot instead of stick to fix this;
1 = fixing the risk vs reward on the bigger ship sizes.
1A. Bump up the IHub LP rewards to decent level. At current lvl; you get same as you would get from taking small solo. So zero or two in the end should do it.
1B. Add defence reward for Ihubs under attack. Lets say 10 times more LP per kill while IHub Armor is damaged.
2 = fixing the outside interfearance in the empire space.
2A. Add LP reward to all pirates (aka neutrals) in the FW area. About half of what you get from WT should be sufficient.
2B. Add LP reward to pirate and neutral POS in FW area. About half of what you get from Ihub would be sufficient.
2C. Pirates (aka neutrals) dont get any LP and get the normal security penalty plus addidional faction penalty for all kills.
3 = fixing the risk vs reward for joining FW as high sec mission runner.
3A. When WT enters opposite faction space he is classified as illegal immigrant and targeted and shot at in 1 sec by police, customs, faction navies and gate guns.
3B. When killing someone in opposite factions space, even if it is an WT. Normal security penalties apply and standings loss happens directly to the empire faction. (Instead of made up wannabe navy corp.)
4 = fixing the dullness of plexing & making bigger ships more needed
4A. Cutting the plexing time to half.
4B. Adding random number between 1-5 faction ships to sites, each the same size as the site maximum. Doubling their damage. Making them spawn more often even in the middle of plexing.
You know, I was going to start flaming you after reading this but then I thought about it some, and some of these ideas make a lot of sense.
For the stuff under 1), I think a modest boost to LP payout for hubs is in order, maybe up to 50k instead of 40k. The big thing here is to not split the LP among the fleet but simply make it so everyone who shoots it gets the 50k lp payout. In addition, you have to make it like incursions, i.e. no one gets any LP from the hub until the system flips (maybe even make this for all plexes run in the system as well, but something tells me that's another topic for another day).
I think a defense bonus would be a great idea that would encourage lots of fights and draw more people into the battle. It's not easily farmable (system flips are not exactly an everyday occurrence), and the added reward will get people seriously involved instead of just treating it with a very 'meh' attitude.
As for the stuff under 2), I'm not sure it's very RP compatible for giving a blanket LP payout just for shooting neutrals of any persuasion in FW space. LOLRP aside, I think only giving an LP payout for killing pirate players or players with suspect flags would be a good compromise. Combined with the proposed idea of giving any neutral entering a plex a suspect timer, I think this would have the desired effect you want without putting a giant bullseye on literally every neutral that comes into FW low sec.
I actually like the idea of putting LP payouts on killing neutral/pirate POS in low sec. Sort of a military exclusion of civilians from an active warzone.
I don't think that killing any sort of benefit for pirates and neutrals in FW is a good thing. We want people to come into low sec, and we want them to get into conflict with each other. Providing FW players with an incentive to go pick fights is a way to accomplish this; disincentivizing neutrals from even coming into FW space is not.
I don't think anything under 3) is helpful. FW is supposed to be for people willing to go out into low sec and shoot each other and participate in the occupancy war. Protecting high sec mission runners does neither of these things. If anything, I think we need to get rid of the navy and simply make it so FWers can't dock in enemy high sec. It makes no sense to be able to dock in enemy controlled high sec where your every move spawns NPCs, but not in enemy controlled low sec. FW has many advantages and disadvantages, you shouldn't be able to pick and choose which ones you want applied to you simply by hiding in high sec.
I like the spirit of 4) but I really don't think messing with plex timers and adding more rats helps things. I think if you want to get more ship types involved, you just need to make large plexes spawn more regularly in the warzone. Maybe making the rats a bit harder would prevent farming, but really anything besides adding tank to them just makes them a hindrance to pvp, and most people don't want that. |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
63
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Posted - 2013.05.17 22:13:00 -
[34] - Quote
I think it would be good if the hub is only vulnerable for a certain period of time. And if it's 'defended' then 25% of occupancy gets rolled back.
Don't think I've heard if a bunker fight since the last iteration as such a thing would be pointless. |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
43
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Posted - 2013.05.18 06:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
I'd only really like to see more plexes for BCs and BS and some sort of mechanic that makes people actually bring them instead of yet another frigate blob.
Some sort of cyno jamming mechanic might be interesting to keep bored nullsec blobs away. On the other hand, they'll just roll through in Machariel blobs then and FW entities lose the opportunity to drop caps too.
About system flipping, LP, ihubs, i'm actually fine with it now. Systems flip, people fight, ships explode, i can still pay my ship replacement bills. All is well.
pew pew |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
951
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Posted - 2013.05.20 21:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
David Devant wrote:I think it would be good if the hub is only vulnerable for a certain period of time. And if it's 'defended' then 25% of occupancy gets rolled back.
Don't think I've heard if a bunker fight since the last iteration as such a thing would be pointless.
Why do you say such a fight would be pointless?
Rolling back 25% of vulnerability might not have the desired effect. After all they would then be able to farm it again.
But if it rolled back 25% and reduced the offensive lp payout in that system to half, that might get those fights going again. It might also lead to people caring even less about tiers - I don't know.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
188
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Posted - 2013.05.20 23:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
imo this would be exploited to let it roll bk farm it and rinse repeat till your side decides to flip it if they ever do , kinda like over plexing vulnerable systems in inferno... GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Johnny Punisher
Fistful of Finns Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
7
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Posted - 2013.05.21 08:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:There is no need to fix FW, CCP achieved all goals they had, if your goals were different that is your problem.
FW is woking fine, new players are having fun and shooting each others. If you want meaning for war FW is not for you, go 0.0.
I usually don't agree with Bad Messenger, but this time I do :)
FW mechanics are currently favouring smaller ship classes and it's great for newer players. If you want different kind of pvp, you can prolly figure out lots of different options to find it... |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
280
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Posted - 2013.05.21 15:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cearain wrote: I guess my first question would be why didn't/doesn't minmatar push for sahtogas? I really don't know the answer.
That answer (those reasons) may provide some clues as to where we need to look to get larger scale fights.
The answer is simple: Those non-farming Minmatar pilots are busy defending their home systems from Amarr farmers. Why should I go and push sahtogas when I just can stay at home and kill the bloody farmers comming to me. Even worser, if we leave our home for like 6 hours then it gets heavily contested so that it really gets in danger of being flipped. For those who are not looking at the LP or ISK per hour ratio there is really no incentive to go and take an enemy system (at least as long you have a steady stream of farmers to kill at your own ground). |
Colt Blackhawk
The Amarrian Expendables
150
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Posted - 2013.05.21 15:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Cearain wrote: I guess my first question would be why didn't/doesn't minmatar push for sahtogas? I really don't know the answer.
That answer (those reasons) may provide some clues as to where we need to look to get larger scale fights.
The answer is simple: Those non-farming Minmatar pilots are busy defending their home systems from Amarr farmers. Why should I go and push sahtogas when I just can stay at home and kill the bloody farmers comming to me. Even worser, if we leave our home for like 6 hours then it gets heavily contested so that it really gets in danger of being flipped. For those who are not looking at the LP or ISK per hour ratio there is really no incentive to go and take an enemy system (at least as long you have a steady stream of farmers to kill at your own ground).
We have almost no farmers atm. Your systems are conquered by pvpers. Even if we would have farmers they would be in cal/gal space farming the gals to hell. But there are also almost none. |
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Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
988
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Posted - 2013.05.21 15:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
if fw is fine and 0.0 needs some love....
Time to make 0.0 available to one day old alt stabbed farmers earning more than 0.0 anoms runners?
no?
why?! 0.0 is more risky and more profit right.
i think theres a point in there some where if not, then rant over. Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg CCP Hilmar CEO > "why am i sweating, why is this game doing this to me"
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
954
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Posted - 2013.05.21 16:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Meditril wrote:Cearain wrote: I guess my first question would be why didn't/doesn't minmatar push for sahtogas? I really don't know the answer.
That answer (those reasons) may provide some clues as to where we need to look to get larger scale fights.
The answer is simple: Those non-farming Minmatar pilots are busy defending their home systems from Amarr farmers. Why should I go and push sahtogas when I just can stay at home and kill the bloody farmers comming to me. Even worser, if we leave our home for like 6 hours then it gets heavily contested so that it really gets in danger of being flipped. For those who are not looking at the LP or ISK per hour ratio there is really no incentive to go and take an enemy system (at least as long you have a steady stream of farmers to kill at your own ground). We have almost no farmers atm. Your systems are conquered by pvpers. Even if we would have farmers they would be in cal/gal space farming the gals to hell. But there are also almost none.
https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx
This website gives top vp gainers for a day and for the week for vp gained in your own war zone. AFAIK It does not give vp for cross plexing as that is not recorded.
If you want to see how the top vp gainers are gaining so much vp look at their killboards for the days they gain that vp.
Here are the top 20 for yesterday 5/20/2013.
Dalis Car victoryPoints="700" FarmingEvolved victoryPoints="580" Stirlsha victoryPoints="540 Validous Tiberius victoryPoints="500 Walter Islands victoryPoints="500 Cytheera victory points"500"
Heira Andedare victoryPoints="480 Nathan Seldon victoryPoints="460 Takashi Kuritatomo victoryPoints="460 Leona Myo" victoryPoints="460 DeathStalker Owen victoryPoints="440 JunglyJingo victoryPoints="420 gocaine badger victoryPoints="420
Momoka Shihari victoryPoints="400 atten sion victoryPoints="400" Aurentinos victoryPoints="400 maxmus09 victoryPoints="400 Patient numero deux" victoryPoints="380 Gaven Lok'ri victoryPoints="380 Thanatos Marathon victoryPoints="380 duch crystal cvicotry points="380"/>
I haven't checked to see how many amarr are on there or what their killboards look like. But I will say that from my experience amarr seem the least likely to warp off of all the factions. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
954
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Posted - 2013.05.21 16:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Cearain wrote: I guess my first question would be why didn't/doesn't minmatar push for sahtogas? I really don't know the answer.
That answer (those reasons) may provide some clues as to where we need to look to get larger scale fights.
The answer is simple: Those non-farming Minmatar pilots are busy defending their home systems from Amarr farmers. Why should I go and push sahtogas when I just can stay at home and kill the bloody farmers comming to me. Even worser, if we leave our home for like 6 hours then it gets heavily contested so that it really gets in danger of being flipped. For those who are not looking at the LP or ISK per hour ratio there is really no incentive to go and take an enemy system (at least as long you have a steady stream of farmers to kill at your own ground).
I imagine different characters will have different reasons. But thanks for your view.
So one reason was: the concern of farmers plexing home systems if you leave it unattended and possibly leaving it in danger of being flipped.
If there were no lockouts do you think you would have went and pushed for sahtogas?
If fewer pvpers could be left behind and still effectively drive out farmers do you think you would have pushed for sahtogas?
Is there something else that could change that would have lead you to care enough about taking sahtogas such that you would have joined in a large battle there? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
189
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Posted - 2013.05.21 22:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
We have almost no farmers atm. Your systems are conquered by pvpers. Even if we would have farmers they would be in cal/gal space farming the gals to hell. But there are also almost none.
SOOOO amarrs numbers swelling are just pvpers getting in on some action? yeah right lol im in gal space and see amarr farmers all the time even ibs farm over here. The reason why one faction doesnt see the rise in farmers there militia has during a pendulum swing is because ur not chasing your own kind and dont realise them as much but they are there in your backwaters knawing away
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
281
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Posted - 2013.05.22 09:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Meditril wrote: The answer is simple: Those non-farming Minmatar pilots are busy defending their home systems from Amarr farmers. Why should I go and push sahtogas when I just can stay at home and kill the bloody farmers comming to me. Even worser, if we leave our home for like 6 hours then it gets heavily contested so that it really gets in danger of being flipped. For those who are not looking at the LP or ISK per hour ratio there is really no incentive to go and take an enemy system (at least as long you have a steady stream of farmers to kill at your own ground).
We have almost no farmers atm. Your systems are conquered by pvpers. Even if we would have farmers they would be in cal/gal space farming the gals to hell. But there are also almost none.
{IRONIC MODE ON} These ones are no farmers, for sure, they have to cloak just for spying or what? {IRONIC MODE OFF} http://triad-eve.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=30377 http://triad-eve.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=30355
But indeed, there are more WT willing to fight at the moment like these two: http://triad-eve.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=30379 http://triad-eve.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=30389
Which is a good development which I appreciate. |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
281
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Posted - 2013.05.22 10:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cearain wrote:[quote=Meditril]I imagine different characters will have different reasons. But thanks for your view.
So one reason was: the concern of farmers plexing home systems if you leave it unattended and possibly leaving it in danger of being flipped.
If there were no lockouts do you think you would have went and pushed for sahtogas?
If fewer pvpers could be left behind and still effectively drive out farmers do you think you would have pushed for sahtogas?
Is there something else that could change that would have lead you to care enough about taking sahtogas such that you would have joined in a large battle there?
First, I really appreciate the lockout mechanics, because it finally gives holding a system a meaning. Furthermore, I remember the endless and annoying docking games with war targets prior the lockout was implemented. Therefore, the lockout is really a must have which I like!
The problem currently is that there is really no reason to push for sahtogas from a PVP perspective if you have enough WT to kill in your own home system. What would I get from taking Sahtogas? Nothing. With regards to Off Grid Boosters there is even a good reason not to go there. If you go into enemy turf you will just find that they are boosted to hell with their local AFK off grid boosters sitting in POSes. (I mean this is a valid tactics with current mechanics, but Off Grid Boosting is simply crap from a more global perspective). |
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
70
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Posted - 2013.05.25 21:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
For what it is worth (and I apologise if this has been said and I missed it) but stagger the % change to a system to match the plex type:
Novice - 0.1% Small - 0.2% Medium - 0.3% Large - 0.4%
This would make a system need more than a 2 day campaign to flip it. Want to play safe, then accept the penalty that you are not having a big impact.
Also, make people earn the plex, the rats are too damn weak!
Want to take a system faster, fine run the large plexes, but make it need 2+ bc's, not a faction frig. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
126
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Posted - 2013.05.27 04:24:00 -
[48] - Quote
Philpip wrote:For what it is worth (and I apologise if this has been said and I missed it) but stagger the % change to a system to match the plex type:
Novice - 0.1% Small - 0.2% Medium - 0.3% Large - 0.4%
This would make a system need more than a 2 day campaign to flip it. Want to play safe, then accept the penalty that you are not having a big impact.
Also, make people earn the plex, the rats are too damn weak!
Want to take a system faster, fine run the large plexes, but make it need 2+ bc's, not a faction frig. no. |
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
71
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 06:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:Philpip wrote:For what it is worth (and I apologise if this has been said and I missed it) but stagger the % change to a system to match the plex type:
Novice - 0.1% Small - 0.2% Medium - 0.3% Large - 0.4%
This would make a system need more than a 2 day campaign to flip it. Want to play safe, then accept the penalty that you are not having a big impact.
Also, make people earn the plex, the rats are too damn weak!
Want to take a system faster, fine run the large plexes, but make it need 2+ bc's, not a faction frig. no.
Congratulations on your well rounded, thought out objection. |
Major Trant
The Flowing Penguins Iron Oxide.
179
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Posted - 2013.05.31 11:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
Personally, I think FW is working pretty well right now. The siege of Arzad proved that to me. Because a fight, battle or campaign didn't go our way, doesn't mean the system is broken. Sure this month has been Frigate/Dessie centric, but we've all seen BS and cap fights in FW, we'll see them again.
The biggest problem in FW is shared throughout Eve. Balance!
One side will always dominate the other. Be it in a particular TZ, in veteran/skilled pilots or just generally overall. It's sad that so many people in Eve think the end game is simply to join the biggest, most richest alliance. But show me the Dev post where it says that Eve is meant to be fair or that people can't be f*ggots.
In FW we have the unique situation of having plenty of options when we can't face the enemy toe to toe, other than just switching sides. Adapt, overcome, fight dirty. The last thing I'd like to see is a system which would encourage the Minmatar leadership to talk to the Amarr leadership... nudge, nudge, wink, wink... you leave Sahtogas alone and we won't touch OURZ...Huola. Anything that encourages stagnation is bad for FW.
The big blue doughnut is that way ->
As for farmers? We all have to farm at some point, just let them get on with it, take the odd gank where you can. |
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Okogawa Shaishi
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology State Section 9
0
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Posted - 2013.05.31 12:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
I'm farily new to Factional Warfare, so take my opinion about it as "newbie FW one".
Someone here said, we should get LP for killing pirates or neutrals. I'd agree with pirates and suspects. I mean, Factional Warfare is supposed to be military operations in low sec. EvE is to some people kinda a simulator of space ships rather than a simple game (maybe for most of them). But I don't see FW low sec much as military place. Everyone can come and go as they please. Have you ever seen a military base so easy to enter?
I'm not saying we need heavily fortified systems. But when we take a system, why not let us upgrade the gate / ihub defense as already people here suggested. Set up "entering status", those NPC turrets / ships will shoot only pirates, only neutrals, only FW enemies, or combined. Or let it setup status to other corporations. You are red, its gonna shoot you, you are blue, it will defend you in case someone is shooting you. What I'm saying here, just let us feel its really a military thing.
Or how about to let people spend LP different ways? Something like a support NPC fleet which cynoes in (how big depends on your LP spendings). Lets say you spend your LP on ihub upgrades. What for? I mean, now its for better tier. but everyone gets that advantage even tho they didnt spend anything. So why not let those who do spend LP to get ihubs on higher level let theirs corporaton have some kind of reward for it.
Othwerise, nice read in this topic. Good to know people care about FW more than just LPs.
P.S. Don't kill me and remember, I'm FW newbie. BtwI really liked that idea about more NPC ships in plexes, depending on who goes in. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
966
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Posted - 2013.05.31 14:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Major Trant wrote:... The biggest problem in FW is shared throughout Eve. Balance!
One side will always dominate the other. Be it in a particular TZ, in veteran/skilled pilots or just generally overall. It's sad that so many people in Eve think the end game is simply to join the biggest, most richest alliance. But show me the Dev post where it says that Eve is meant to be fair or that people can't be f*ggots.
In FW we have the unique situation of having plenty of options when we can't face the enemy toe to toe, other than just switching sides. Adapt, overcome, fight dirty....
Or just give up when you see an enemy that you can't fight toe to toe and spend a week moving your stuff instead of pvping.
It would be nice if when a large force came into one system you could then focus on different systems and force them to spread out. But with the current tier system and lock outs no one cares about the vast majority of systems so there is no effective way to force the blob to spread out. If one side has the superior numbers to take home systems there is nothing the enemy can do except move out of fw space.
Major Trant wrote:The last thing I'd like to see is a system which would encourage the Minmatar leadership to talk to the Amarr leadership... nudge, nudge, wink, wink... you leave Sahtogas alone and we won't touch OURZ...Huola. Anything that encourages stagnation is bad for FW.
The big blue doughnut is that way ->....
Is that what we see in Caldari Gallente space? Could/can Gallente kick the Caldari out of any home system they wanted? The impression I get (it could be wrong) is that they could. But they want the pvp so they allow caldari to stay in some systems. Caldari can't take Nenn but I have not heard anyone say gallente are incapable of taking any particular caldari system. So it seems they just sort of tacitally agree to let caldari stay there.
Minmatar had dominance on the plexing front and so amarr pvpers who didn't want to waste time with it moved out of the warzone.
I think a goal should be to make it so people care about all (or at least the majority) of the systems somewhat equivalently so a single blob that can spread timezones pays for clumping everyone into one system.
IMO after the october 2012 changes the tier system basically died. Now very few care at all about any system other than their home systems. Result blob = Iwin just like null sec.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1433
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Posted - 2013.05.31 18:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Cearain wrote: It would be nice if when a large force came into one system you could then focus on different systems and force them to spread out. But with the current tier system and lock outs no one cares about the vast majority of systems so there is no effective way to force the blob to spread out. If one side has the superior numbers to take home systems there is nothing the enemy can do except move out of fw space.
You CAN focus on different systems and force them (technically wrong: you can't really force anybody in Eve to do anything) to spread out. This was part of the plan for the Amarr during the Sahtoghas campaign. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1433
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 18:22:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Is that what we see in Caldari Gallente space? Could/can Gallente kick the Caldari out of any home system they wanted? The impression I get (it could be wrong) is that they could. But they want the pvp so they allow caldari to stay in some systems. Caldari can't take Nenn but I have not heard anyone say gallente are incapable of taking any particular caldari system. So it seems they just sort of tacitally agree to let caldari stay there.
Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it's the best thing to do. Maybe there's a little more strategery in FW than you think.
Quote: IMO after the october 2012 changes the tier system basically died. Now very few care at all about any system other than their home systems. Result blob = Iwin just like null sec.
Nobody cared about any other (non-home) system before tier changes. All non-home systems were made vulnerable by farmers and were kept that way for weeks until a side decided to flip them all at once to get the LP payout. Then the same thing happened for the other side.
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
966
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Posted - 2013.05.31 21:47:00 -
[55] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: It would be nice if when a large force came into one system you could then focus on different systems and force them to spread out. But with the current tier system and lock outs no one cares about the vast majority of systems so there is no effective way to force the blob to spread out. If one side has the superior numbers to take home systems there is nothing the enemy can do except move out of fw space.
You CAN focus on different systems and force them (technically wrong: you can't really force anybody in Eve to do anything) to spread out. This was part of the plan for the Amarr during the Sahtoghas campaign.
Thats true. It does work in the extremely rare case of trying to hold on to a single system. Beyond that there are about 5 systems per front that people care about. When one side gets the blob advantage over the other side spread over time zones, they can start flipping those systems. Meanwhile there is little the smaller militia can do.
Consider what Major tant said "...we had 25 regulars." What could these 25 pilots do after the large fleet came? Nothing. Sure they could plex a surrounding system but that would accomplish nothing. You can either outblob in the home systems, or theres not much of significance to do. Null sec. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
966
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Posted - 2013.05.31 21:55:00 -
[56] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: Is that what we see in Caldari Gallente space? Could/can Gallente kick the Caldari out of any home system they wanted? The impression I get (it could be wrong) is that they could. But they want the pvp so they allow caldari to stay in some systems. Caldari can't take Nenn but I have not heard anyone say gallente are incapable of taking any particular caldari system. So it seems they just sort of tacitally agree to let caldari stay there.
Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it's the best thing to do. Maybe there's a little more strategery in FW than you think.
Sure thats possible but what I am hearing is one side does not want to drive the enemy out so there can be more pvp. I am also hearing caldari were recently kicked out of a system because they started plexxing nenn. Sort of a hidden assumption that if you don't mess with our sov we won't mess with yours. Not everyone agreed with that view. But after the medal was collected there seemed no more interest in really kicking the caldari out.
X Gallentius wrote:Quote: IMO after the october 2012 changes the tier system basically died. Now very few care at all about any system other than their home systems. Result blob = Iwin just like null sec.
Nobody cared about any other (non-home) system before tier changes. All non-home systems were made vulnerable by farmers and were kept that way for weeks until a side decided to flip them all at once to get the LP payout. Then the same thing happened for the other side.
There were allot of farmers/rabbits no doubt. How to deal with farmers/rabbits is a different issue.
But people also had to care about 80% of the systems if they wanted a very profitable cashout. So the system itself did make militias care about the vast majority of systems. Perhaps just once every 3 months for a push but at least it happened occassionally. Now no one ever cares about anything but home systems that are won by getting the biggest blob. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1433
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Posted - 2013.05.31 22:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cearain wrote:But people also had to care about 80% of the systems if they wanted a very profitable cashout. So the system itself did make militias care about the vast majority of systems. Perhaps just once every 3 months for a push but at least it happened occassionally. Now no one ever cares about anything but home systems that are won by getting the biggest blob. People currently have to care about 80% of the systems if they want a very profitable farming activity. What's the difference?
Your argument is that people "cared" about 80% of the systems for one day every three months. That's only about 1% of the way towards your FW Utopia where everybody cares about every system all day long. Surely you can do better.
You never participated in the mass-flipping of 70+ systems. If you did, then you wouldn't keep bringing it up as "the good old days". |
Random Mintard CEO
The 24th Tribal Liberation Farce
0
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Posted - 2013.05.31 22:24:00 -
[58] - Quote
Your ideas are terrible. Also your so called "alliance" quit FW already, why are you still pretending to be in it? |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
602
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Posted - 2013.05.31 22:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
Posting in another thread where Cretin is corrected on his ill conceived intuition based often contradictory understanding of fw.
I for one never get bored of hearing his ignorant insight into times and events that many others here actually participated in rather than just read a blog once. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1251
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Posted - 2013.06.01 01:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
One of the things that has frustrated me as of late was the abandonment of the temporary cyno jammer. As it had been proposed the thing would take some time to online and then only be active for an hour. It's uses would have been pretty straightforward:
1) Reinforce a moon POS in a FW zone. 2) Set up cyno jammer to run for when it comes out. 3) Profit??
A null sec group would have to drop a supercap group early or jump a subcap group next door and move into the system. At fanfest CCP indicated they wanted to make low sec a dark alley that null sec powerhouses would not want to go into because they couldn't bring their full force to bear and it wouldn't be worth their time. The temporary cyno jammer clearly fit the bill. With the new moon seeding it would have made low sec sov something more then a joke.
So why was it abandoned? There are nullsec groups that have enough isk to replace their supercap fleet three times over. Was this item really such a threat to them that they needed to be coddled?
I've seen comments in this thread and others that low sec is for PvP beginners and those of us with 100m + SP should just go to Null. I strongly disagree with this view and hope it is not a vision that CCP shares. I like being able to log on and find a fight in five minutes. I like being able to dock up in a few jumps and take care of RL stuff. I play 30+ hours a week but my two month old really doesn't care if I'm on a four hour operation in Null, you know? . Been there and done that. The flexibility is huge as is the option to fly what I want and train what I want. Null in my experience didn't offer that.
So what should CCP's vision of low sec be? I hope they have one. Right now it doesn't have much in the way of teeth. |
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