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supernova ranger
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
41
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Posted - 2013.07.13 05:06:00 -
[61] - Quote
If CCP would introduce subsystems to capitals they'd become vulnerable to subcapitals.
They mentioned in one of the fanfests about this being what they wanted to come out of T3 but instead we got those cruisers. Don't get me wrong, the cruisers are great but are also nothing compared to being able to target individual parts of the ship.
I don't see anything in this thread referring to this... It doesn't fix the power projection problems of jump bridges but does provide a bridge to bring back sub-capital / capital / super-capital battle royal. I could even see them giving the ships more firepower and tanking with exploitable vulnerabilities like that. |
Prelate Hucel-Ge
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
25
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Posted - 2013.07.13 06:00:00 -
[62] - Quote
Tiberu Stundrif wrote:Prelate Hucel-Ge wrote:Tiberu Stundrif wrote:Jinli mei wrote: This entire thread screams "move the goal post closer, I can't win."
I'm pretty sure many PL/NCdot super pilots agree with me on this. Removing them from game is really the only option for fixing a game mechanic broken the moment supers were introduced to this game. Name three people that actually matter and quote where they said this. :allears: Why would I go on a quote-hunt to appease someone who obviously doesn't understand how much supers impact the game in a negative way? Why should I waste my time explaining why you're wrong when you're in the coalition that has no clue on how to use supercaptials effectively and safely? Hint: safely doesn't mean "never use them". |
Tiberu Stundrif
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
55
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Posted - 2013.07.13 08:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
Prelate Hucel-Ge wrote: Why should I waste my time explaining why you're wrong when you're in the coalition that has no clue on how to use supercaptials effectively and safely? Hint: safely doesn't mean "never use them".
I'm just going to leave this here... http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=18611012
Just because PL and NCdot may be helping your alliance while it huddles in low-sec, does not mean Supers & Titans are therefore awesome and shouldn't be removed.
Thankfully, there are plenty of us that play the long-game, actually own supers/titans and realize how they simply don't fit into this game. |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
7
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:08:00 -
[64] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Ronny Hugo wrote:NEONOVUS (Novus like in that game?) I remind you that ships being destroyed is what makes the economy go, so that's the solution to capitals, make the players destroy more of them by daring to fly them even when its not a sure victory. Cyno jammers would just ensure they'd be even more careful on top of being careful because constructing supercaps take so long (the parts can be stacked mile high and are produced almost continually, but it takes so very long to put the parts together, and when you have the parts together you need someone to sit in it all the time, otherwise anyone could go up to it and take it). cyno jammers cut both ways and prevent all reinforcements. Of course if you happen to have a hic and a fleet.... But yeah the idea is embolden the pilots so they come out more, right now deaths canbe attributed to awoxing and really not much else, there is no screw it send in the supers as with bcs and even t3s instead you have people utterly freaked at the concept of putting them in anything but we win or leave there is no die also what game?
"there is no screw it send in the supers" - Exactly. Supers are only sent in when its more or less a sure thing, and the enemy knows this, so they know their chance of winning by your willingness to escalate, which also provides a further mechanic that prevents people from committing supers to battles. If the supers could be stacked mile high in station like everything else then we would not have this problem, each super pilot who can lose a super would be out taking more risks with his super.
Nevermind, it was this game where a civilization called the novus kicked butt on Earth.
Tiberu Stundrif wrote:Jinli mei wrote: This entire thread screams "move the goal post closer, I can't win."
I'm pretty sure many PL/NCdot super pilots agree with me on this. Removing them from game is really the only option for fixing a game mechanic broken the moment supers were introduced to this game. It is not the only mechanic that would fix supers. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
34
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
Does this mean we can allow capitals back in high-sec? |
Galphii
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
168
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:47:00 -
[66] - Quote
As we've witnessed from the industrial ship tiericide, CCP are reluctant to remove ships from the game entirely. I wouldn't mind seeing tiericide on the carriers so that 'supercarriers' become 'assault carriers'. You know, shrink the model, make them like current carriers but with no logi ability and able to use fighter bombers (10-15 max tho). Give a choice between the current (logi) carriers and something to thump big ships with.
As for titans... ugh. I have no idea what could be done to make these 'balanced'. Take away bridging and reduce their cost to compensate maybe? Removal sounds more... humane. X |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2399
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 15:45:00 -
[67] - Quote
no.
Can i haz your stuff? Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Phee Phi PhoPhum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2013.07.13 16:18:00 -
[68] - Quote
Tiberu Stundrif wrote: Avatar is a giant logistics cannon and mobile jump bridge. It is a 80-100 billion ISK sink that simply isn't worth what it is intended for.
There is plenty you can be doing with that titan.
This guys gets it http://zkillboard.com/detail/31885989/
This guy too http://zkillboard.com/detail/26155560/
So shush. Get busy!
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Tiberu Stundrif
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
57
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Posted - 2013.07.14 07:01:00 -
[69] - Quote
Galphii wrote:As we've witnessed from the industrial ship tiericide, CCP are reluctant to remove ships from the game entirely. I wouldn't mind seeing tiericide on the carriers so that 'supercarriers' become 'assault carriers'. You know, shrink the model, make them like current carriers but with no logi ability and able to use fighter bombers (10-15 max tho). Give a choice between the current (logi) carriers and something to thump big ships with.
Needing their ability to fit remote reps would be interesting for sure. Remove the remote reps and force carriers to support them. This would then essentially be a dreadnaught without a siege timer. Every way you look at it there needs to be something more taken from them. Simply removing them from the game still seems to be the only complete option per my OP. |
supernova ranger
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
44
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Posted - 2013.07.17 03:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
I still think that adding target-able capital subsystems and keeping capitals nerfed in a way that lets them fire only on enemy capitals but also provide significant boosts to sub-cap performance would fix the problems you are seeing.
It's because capitals don't need sub-capitals to survive that we are having an issue... Me thinks at least... |
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Tiberu Stundrif
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
58
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Posted - 2013.07.17 07:45:00 -
[71] - Quote
supernova ranger wrote:I still think that adding target-able capital subsystems and keeping capitals nerfed in a way that lets them fire only on enemy capitals but also provide significant boosts to sub-cap performance would fix the problems you are seeing.
It's because capitals don't need sub-capitals to survive that we are having an issue... Me thinks at least...
This is not a discussion about capitals, this is a discussion about the removal of supercarriers and titans. |
Siri Exotic
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.07.17 15:14:00 -
[72] - Quote
That's a tough one.
I've trained for years to fly them, I've still never stepped foot in one and can't be bothered to relegate an a character to logging out in one never to see the confines of a station again.
I saw a fleet of them once when in IT Alliance and was awstruck. (they are still aweinspiring when seen) ..but at the same time made me realize that they are supposed to be the pinnacle of the game and a way of showing massive dedication and team work to obtain just one, more than 1 seems excessive, more than 2 says to me something went wrong with the planck bubble generator....
they are too easy to obtain, and too unentertaining to fight against.
Lock them all in a wormhole system and close the holes for ever. |
Bryperium
RAZOR Alliance
8
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Posted - 2013.07.24 13:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
A few thoughts:
-I'm not sure the market could likely not sustain such a large infusion of minerals if carried out as per the OP.
-This would likely proliferate the usage of t1 capitals on all scales of k-space fights. Though I love flying triage carriers and dreads in small gangs during the late USTZ, I'd rather not see them become more common then they already are.
-The evidence of the perceived issues super capitals cause is anecdotal. EVE was last free of capitals half a decade ago, and it is a far different game today then it was then.
-These ships are one of the last Representatives of the advantages of a faction holding ISK in the null sec game. You could make this argument for SRP as well, though I find that pilots can easily replace most sub-supercapital ships when motivated to do so.
The only thing I realistically see as an issue is the alleged over proliferation, But at the end of the day this is a pseudo sandbox game and I'd be more interested in the players reactions and adoptions then CCP's direct intervention. a¦á_a¦á |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1305
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:51:00 -
[74] - Quote
i'm kind of new to the discussion, so please pardon my na+»vet+¬. the way i see it, the main problem with supercaps is that they are built way faster than they explode. yes, they are difficult to kill but it's not impossible. if we were to limit the ability to actually build them, wouldn't this also fix the problem in the long run? (yes, i am aware that there are arguably too many of them in the game already.)
the first proposal that comes to mind would be to have the hulls produced by NPCs at a constant rate and then auctioned to the highest bidder. to keep the mineral sink, you could have the hulls "half-finished" and in need of costly upgrades which are necessary for anything but mere navigation.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bright Side of Death
108
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Posted - 2013.07.24 15:15:00 -
[75] - Quote
Dyslike compensation from SC removal, just remove as is. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1306
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 23:25:00 -
[76] - Quote
i'll just bump this because i'd really like to know the problem with what i posted above *bump*
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Bryperium
RAZOR Alliance
8
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Posted - 2013.07.25 00:11:00 -
[77] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:i'll just bump this because i'd really like to know the problem with what i posted above *bump*
I think it is a good idea (though I'd personally have npc's sell "certifications" of the hull to allow them to be launched from the CSAA instead),
But the most recent QEN has shown that the actual active super population of the game has been pretty consistent (actually falling slightly) as of late due to pilot's tendency to buy their shiny then burn out & log off, never too be seen again, in addition too an always increasing number of older players with said ships going inactive.
I may welcome such measures if we start to see the active supercapital population spike out of control, alongside production, but it seems possible that CCP has plans in place for this already (drone goo nerf for example?). - |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1306
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 11:43:00 -
[78] - Quote
Bryperium wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:i'll just bump this because i'd really like to know the problem with what i posted above *bump* I think it is a good idea (though I'd personally have npc's sell "certifications" of the hull to allow them to be launched from the CSAA instead), But the most recent QEN has shown that the actual active super population of the game has been pretty consistent (actually falling slightly) as of late due to pilot's tendency to buy their shiny then burn out & log off, never too be seen again, in addition too an always increasing number of older players with said ships going inactive. I may welcome such measures if we start to see the active supercapital population spike out of control, alongside production, but it seems possible that CCP has plans in place for this already (drone goo nerf for example?). well, our short term goal is to reduce the amount of supers, so if people burn out and leave and production is highly limited then that also fixes the problem. also, imagine coming back to eve after 5 years and realizing that your titan is now one of ~20 of its kind and worth trillions :D
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 11:57:00 -
[79] - Quote
Better introduce more T2 anti-capships in Destroyer size. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1306
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 12:23:00 -
[80] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Better introduce more T2 anti-capships in Destroyer size. you mean like stealth bombers with citadel launchers? that would be fun....
edit: except you have to make sure they are not abused for structure grinding. wouldn't want a fleet worth 200mil grind a large pos in under 15 minutes, now would we?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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fazeley
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
1
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Posted - 2013.07.25 12:49:00 -
[81] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:One proposal for Titans that I've thrown out in a couple of threads like this in the past is to require a Titan at either end of the jump bridge to send ships through.
Not often I am minded to post, but this is a great idea. It's always seemed odd to me that titan's may use their key ability whilst exposing themselves to no risk at all.
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NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
465
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Posted - 2013.07.25 15:03:00 -
[82] - Quote
Why not add it so titans and supercap weapons can only be used on caps or biggers like with the DD? Then you can balance them amongst each other instead of having to deal with loki webs blap titans and so on? This way caps can blap BS with effective many man setups but then promptly get eaten like a plate of cupcakes made of bacon and steak by titans and supercaps where titans and supercaps get eaten by subcaps. Thus you end up with the triangle of power |
Tel Perion
Hazy Services Incorporated
4
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Posted - 2013.07.25 15:57:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tiberu Stundrif wrote:First of all, I'm a Supercapital pilot. I own an Avatar and a Nyx.
Remove them from the game.
I understand your reasoning for removing them from the game but why waste the artwork? Surely the reason you're advocating removing them from the game is because they're overpowered in combat and don't fit with the rock,paper,scissors,lizard,spock approach which is taken in the rest of the game?
Assuming this to be the case, why not just repurpose them instead so their primary role is a non-combat role? |
Tiberu Stundrif
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
73
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 18:32:00 -
[84] - Quote
Time to REMOVE Supers and Titans from the game. +1 my OP if you agree! |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Against ALL Authorities
61
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Posted - 2013.08.06 21:16:00 -
[85] - Quote
i would hate to see them go. i just wish there was a way to make them rarer and more valuable again. Something that coulodnt be abused by every major alliance/coalition. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
467
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 23:51:00 -
[86] - Quote
Rowells wrote:i would hate to see them go. i just wish there was a way to make them rarer and more valuable again. Something that coulodnt be abused by every major alliance/coalition. Scatter them adrift in space, set number. Have fun scanning for them everywhere, oh and try not to lose them, because CCP aint setting anymore adrift after whupping PL. |
Onocron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 15:25:00 -
[87] - Quote
What the game needs is a _serious_ nerf to jump range
What will become worse if the jump range is cut to one thirds of current jump range? Or what is so bad about limiting jump range to 3 systems for _any_ capital?
They will still be awesome IF you get them on-site, but you it will be way harder to instablob entire new-eden via a bunch of midpoints.
It will give way more windows of opportunity for smaller alliances to use their capitals, you will see less '50 supercap' drops. etc. |
Phaade
Debitum Naturae WHY so Seri0Us
31
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Posted - 2013.08.08 17:03:00 -
[88] - Quote
How about placing a cap on the total number of Titans available in the sandbox, come up with some crazy lore for it.
The Titans that do exist should be in...more or less broadcasted.... systems or constellations, so that you can look on your map and see where they are. If your alliance wants to build one, you have to go blow up an existing.
And +1 for CCP not allowing any more to be built for a while (even ever); sounds better than what's happening right now. |
Phaade
Debitum Naturae WHY so Seri0Us
31
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Posted - 2013.08.08 17:06:00 -
[89] - Quote
fazeley wrote:Xavier Thorm wrote:One proposal for Titans that I've thrown out in a couple of threads like this in the past is to require a Titan at either end of the jump bridge to send ships through. Not often I am minded to post, but this is a great idea. It's always seemed odd to me that titan's may use their key ability whilst exposing themselves to no risk at all.
+1 for this. Or even the Titan following through the bridge. I really like the "jump tethering" idea someone came up with. |
Tiberu Stundrif
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
79
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Posted - 2013.08.10 12:41:00 -
[90] - Quote
Several decent ideas mentioned here, but none fully address the myriad of issues plaguing this neglected and uber-nerfed ship class.
Remove Supers and Titans from the game. |
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