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Sabotaged
Angels and Demons Inc. Mordus Angels
34
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Posted - 2013.05.12 18:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
I played on Singularity. I noticed that existing ice belt systems will have the ice belt anomalies. So they don't appear to be random and in every system. You can use the ship scanner. Sites are not probed down.
There's about 50+ people in an ice belt right now on Tranquility. In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks. With 50 people it will take 20 minutes complete a belt.
I'm basing this on current ~100 second cycle times with orca boosts and the newly double cycle rate.
What happens when an ice roid pops in the middile of a cycle? You can't sit still now, you will have to move your fleet around. It looks like jetcanning and orca tractor beamers will make a come back. No dumping into fleet hangers anymore.
One thing is for certain, the new system will not accommodate current conditions, not even remotely close.
Quote: At our current numbers, the maximum supply of ice from highsec (assuming that each belt is mined out completely five times a day) would provide approximately 80% of the game's ice needs, ensuring that at least some of the ice mining must be undertaken in lower security space.
I for one won't be mining in Lowsec. Why? I'm not taking 14 macks and an Orca to mine ice, put up a POS, have it shot down, scout for gatecamps, jump bridging the goods to hisec, BC and BS rats etc. just so I can get ganked in 1.5 hour belt...of course I would have a lot of drones... but I dont want to have to work. Besides, would you risk 4 billion in assets just so you can have an ice belt to yourself in lower sec?
Join a corp with access? That may work for some. But personally I'm not going join all my characters. I've noticed recruiters tend to be greedy in this regard. They want your mining alt fleet and they also want all your unrelated characters too. So they get nothing.
While CCP is ensuring that some ice must be mined in low sec, I suspect that if you don't do it already, you won't. if 20% of ice isn't mined in lower security space currently, I expect shortages. It's a harsh game remember?
The market is already reflecting changes before the release of the expansion. Whats going to happen? Higher fuel prices? Less POS's maintained? Increased T3 costs? Less Plex subs for multiboxers?
However, the real question is, what happened to our Simcities in Space? |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1779
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Posted - 2013.05.12 18:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
You are a tad late to the party.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
113
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Posted - 2013.05.12 18:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sabotaged wrote:I played on Singularity. I noticed that existing ice belt systems will have the ice belt anomalies. So they don't appear to be random and in every system. You can use the ship scanner. Sites are not probed down. There's about 50+ people in an ice belt right now on Tranquility. In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks. With 50 people it will take 20 minutes complete a belt. I'm basing this on current ~100 second cycle times with orca boosts and the newly double cycle rate. What happens when an ice roid pops in the middile of a cycle? You can't sit still now, you will have to move your fleet around. It looks like jetcanning and orca tractor beamers will make a come back. No dumping into fleet hangers anymore. One thing is for certain, the new system will not accommodate current conditions, not even remotely close. Quote: At our current numbers, the maximum supply of ice from highsec (assuming that each belt is mined out completely five times a day) would provide approximately 80% of the game's ice needs, ensuring that at least some of the ice mining must be undertaken in lower security space.
I for one won't be mining in Lowsec. Why? I'm not taking 14 macks and an Orca to mine ice, put up a POS, have it shot down, scout for gatecamps, jump bridging the goods to hisec, BC and BS rats etc. just so I can get ganked in 1.5 hour belt...of course I would have a lot of drones... but I dont want to have to work. Besides, would you risk 4 billion in assets just so you can have an ice belt to yourself in lower sec? Join a corp with access? That may work for some. But personally I'm not going join all my characters. I've noticed recruiters tend to be greedy in this regard. They want your mining alt fleet and they also want all your unrelated characters too. So they get nothing. While CCP is ensuring that some ice must be mined in low sec, I suspect that if you don't do it already, you won't. if 20% of ice isn't mined in lower security space currently, I expect shortages. It's a harsh game remember? The market is already reflecting changes before the release of the expansion. Whats going to happen? Higher fuel prices? Less POS's maintained? Increased T3 costs? Less Plex subs for multiboxers? However, the real question is, what happened to our Simcities in Space?
I have a job for you. Contact me in-game. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3354
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Posted - 2013.05.12 18:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
In a free market like EVE, there are no long term shortages of anything. Prices rise until quantity demanded drops to/below quantity supplied. As prices rise, quantity supplied tends to go up (there are probably enough miners currently in 0.0 to produce that 20%. They haven't been because Ice mining in 0.0 is far worse income than ore mining for the same effort).
In other words, instead of being shortages, there will be people who say "welp, too expensive, I'm getting rid of my POS/Cap/whatever" and people who say "hey, Ice is really expensive. I think I'll Rorq over to that friendly Ice system and do some mining."
Even if the Quantity Supplied doesn't go up at all, the price increase will drive enough people out of the market for ice products to allow ice to keep flowing. Just like it did during the various Ice Interdictions. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
GreenSeed
280
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Posted - 2013.05.12 18:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary.
and as far as having to move to low/null... do it. if you can already run that many accounts you can keep an index of 4 alone. on any system. once the ore changes hit, just switch to mining ore and join a null sec alliance. just remember this, when you join, make the clones, and fly to your home in pods or ventures. if you are giving them 20 man hours per hour, they better be ready to set up a safe pos for you and give you atleast 5 production lines.
with your extraction power and the new ore refining values you'll be space rich in a month, and you can buy yourself your very own JF alt that will get ganked in a week and get you booted from the alliance for shaming their killboard.
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Danni stark
241
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Posted - 2013.05.12 19:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sabotaged wrote:In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks.
wrong. Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
228
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Posted - 2013.05.12 19:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
They should add 6-10 systems in lowsec with infinite ice fields, if people need ice so bad, they can risk getting it in losec. |
GreenSeed
280
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Posted - 2013.05.12 19:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:Sabotaged wrote:In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks. wrong.
actually its correct, current sisi build has that per system. checked in 7 ice systems. |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
248
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Posted - 2013.05.12 19:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
So how big of a fleet of mining ships would you need to suck up an ice field in say 5 to 10 minutes?
Who has the logistical prowess to Titan bridge said fleet into a losec system, or an enemy held nullsec system for that matter? |
Danni stark
244
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Posted - 2013.05.12 19:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:Danni stark wrote:Sabotaged wrote:In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks. wrong. actually its correct, current sisi build has that per system. checked in 7 ice systems.
ccp fozzy already confirmed there are 2500 ice blocks per anom.
op is wrong, or would you like to argue that ccp fozzy is wrong? Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
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Mhax Arthie
65
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Posted - 2013.05.12 19:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ice belts are ok, I salute the changes. But I cannot understand what happened with the gravimetric sites... in the next expansion you have to be completely nuts to mine in a gravi site. I had a test with a friend on the test server, took me about 8 seconds to gank him in the gravi site soon as I landed in his system. Miners in null and WH willl have to skip the gravi sites and mine in the regular belts or they will fall like flies, ganking miners will be just too easy. |
Danni stark
244
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Posted - 2013.05.12 19:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mhax Arthie wrote:Ice belts are ok, I salute the changes. But I cannot understand what happened with the gravimetric sites... in the next expansion you have to be completely nuts to mine in a gravi site. I had a test with a friend on the test server, took me about 8 seconds to gank him in the gravi site soon as I landed in his system. Miners in null and WH willl have to skip the gravi sites and mine in the regular belts or they will fall like flies, ganking miners will be just too easy.
yeah because belts aren't as easy to warp to, right? Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
608
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Posted - 2013.05.12 20:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sabotaged wrote: I for one won't be mining in Lowsec. Why? I'm not taking 14 macks and an Orca to mine ice, put up a POS, have it shot down, scout for gatecamps, jump bridging the goods to hisec, BC and BS rats etc. just so I can get ganked in 1.5 hour belt...of course I would have a lot of drones... but I dont want to have to work. Besides, would you risk 4 billion in assets just so you can have an ice belt to yourself in lower sec?
But you have to. You have no choice. Really, really. You must, because it's a conflict driver and the Devs are holding the metaphorical gun to your head, and if you don't then bad things will happen. Bad, bad, bad.
And if nobody else does, then those nasty Devs will say "Well, they only want to mine in High Sec. I guess we'll have to nerf that a little bit at a time until they get The Hint."
You should just quit now.
/sarcasm... or not.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Valari Nala Zena
Perkone Caldari State
68
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Posted - 2013.05.12 20:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
The amount of ice currently in singularity doesn't reflect the amount there will actually be in Odyssey:
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We're updating SISI now with Odyssey, and it's not quite going to have our latest Ice designs in this build. So I wanted to give a clear update on our plans here so you all don't get confused by the numbers live on SISI today.
Here's what we currently have planned for the volumes of ice in each Ice Anomaly:
Highsec: 2500 units of standard racial ice.
Lowsec: 3000 units of standard racial ice 400 units of Glare Crust
Nullsec with weak truesec (0.0 to -0.5): 3000 units of improved racial ice 400 units of Glare Crust 500 units of Dark Glitter 200 units of Gelidus
Nullsec with strong truesec (-0.5 to -1.0): 3500 units of improved racial ice 400 units of Glare Crust 1000 units of Dark Glitter 300 units of Gelidus 250 units of Krystallos
As mentioned before, these belts will appear in systems that currently have ice belts, and will respawn four hours after they are depleted.
We're also adjusting the composition of Krystallos to bring it out of the gutter and help ensure enough ozone supply: Heavy Water: 125 (+25) Liquid Ozone: 500 (+250) Stront: 125 (+25) |
Sabotaged
Angels and Demons Inc. Mordus Angels
35
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Posted - 2013.05.12 21:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:GreenSeed wrote:Danni stark wrote:Sabotaged wrote:In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks. wrong. actually its correct, current sisi build has that per system. checked in 7 ice systems. ccp fozzy already confirmed there are 2500 ice blocks per anom. op is wrong, or would you like to argue that ccp fozzy is wrong?
1600 wasn't meant to be exact, just estimate, roids had a bit over 100 using a survey scanner, some roids had 109, 126. I didnt see anything that would indicate an average of 150. Could it still have been 2500, sure. I didnt go and check each roid. |
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
213
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Posted - 2013.05.13 01:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Massive Ice mining in Null...........Bomber Groups Like Bombers Bar/Templeton, DirtNap Squad and others must be jizzing in their pants. Should be fun. ...................................................... |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
457
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Posted - 2013.05.13 02:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sabotaged wrote:
However, the real question is, what happened to our Simcities in Space?
Simcity worked because it was designed to be "won" There really was no challenge or threat. Eve is a game in which you build something in spite of other players trying to destroy it.
This is not "sim city" in space, and your f2p PLEXed accounts are no more interesting than AI rats.
As for the value of PLEX; CCP can subsidize that at any time. You farm resources that can be produced with a hand wave. No one is terribly concerned whether you log in or not.
Maybe that is what this next xpac is all about. -áImmersion = gameplayer self worth? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsEPP3YQcxQ |
Ghazu
575
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Posted - 2013.05.13 03:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
lol you guys used to have sov. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4996
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Posted - 2013.05.13 03:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary. You do realize that depletion of ice belts and the decreased cycle time makes things harder on multiboxers, don't you?
Not only will their ore holds fill up twice as fast so they'll have to micromanage that, the depleting ice chunks means that they can't sit in one spot either. Controlling multiple mining ships + Orcas with one person is going to be a lot harder to manage. This is why, despite ore being more profitable, you don't see multiboxing ore mining fleets at nearly the same scale as multiboxing ice miners. |
Lexar Mundi
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
42
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Posted - 2013.05.13 04:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:GreenSeed wrote:Danni stark wrote:Sabotaged wrote:In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks. wrong. actually its correct, current sisi build has that per system. checked in 7 ice systems. ccp fozzy already confirmed there are 2500 ice blocks per anom. op is wrong, or would you like to argue that ccp fozzy is wrong?
The op may be in a belt that has been mined on the test server. I scanned a belt in a system with my orca. I got 19 ice rocks with around 100+ units per rock on it. |
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Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1840
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Posted - 2013.05.13 04:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
The only thing i dont like about the changes is the resulting massive hike in POS running costs.
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GreenSeed
282
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Posted - 2013.05.13 04:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:GreenSeed wrote:honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary. You do realize that depletion of ice belts and the decreased cycle time makes things harder on multiboxers, don't you?
no, i don't, because you don't seem to know what you are talking about, and i do. i doesn't make anything harder, i been doing it with regular mining for over 5 years now.
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Not only will their ore holds fill up twice as fast so they'll have to micromanage that, the depleting ice chunks means that they can't sit in one spot either. Controlling multiple mining ships + Orcas with one person is going to be a lot harder to manage. wrong. fleet warps out, unloads at station, warps back to the ship being used as anchor, every 15 minutes instead of 30. if all strips have the same cycle time and focus the same rock the only moment where a boxer would be at a disadvantage would be if the amnt of rocks left is less than the sum of all strips. something that only happens at the end of life span of the rock.
also should the boxer decide to focus on different rocks, he can still reposition the anchor and issue a "regroup" fleet command. (one nifty command most people don't even know its in game)
James Amril-Kesh wrote:This is why, despite ore being more profitable, you don't see multiboxing ore mining fleets at nearly the same scale as multiboxing ice miners. you don't see multiboxing ice fleets actually, you see random players who are taking advantage of a broken game mechanic. the same way you weren't seeing FW plexers months ago before the plex nerf, they were just taking advantage of a broken game mechanic.
as soon as this change goes live those people will leave the accounts lapse. they are not "multiboxers". multiboxers enjoy multiboxing, the game they are doing it in is secondary. and they will continue to multibox regardless of whatever change is implemented on the game.
the advantage i was referring to is the advantage that arises from the 4hr respawn mechanic.
every 4hrs a boxing fleet will walk out with the biggest share of the ice, end of story. what effect will that have on other miners is what matters. and if regular mining is anything to go by, my money is on them finding it unfair. and honestly i cant blame them.
also, considering this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=230931&find=unread you can see how this can turn ugly real fast.
the 4h respawn is a bunch of crap. they should just make ice spawn everywhere like they already do with ore with respawns at downtime. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
636
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Posted - 2013.05.13 05:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Posting in a stealth 'buff Eve is dying threads' thread. From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
956
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Posted - 2013.05.13 09:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary.
Then you know what to do: wardec the multi boxer and kill him.
Repeatedly. |
Danni stark
251
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Posted - 2013.05.13 09:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:GreenSeed wrote:honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary.
Then you know what to do: wardec the multi boxer and kill him. Repeatedly.
and how does one dec an npc corp? Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Mhax Arthie
65
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Posted - 2013.05.13 10:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:Mhax Arthie wrote:Ice belts are ok, I salute the changes. But I cannot understand what happened with the gravimetric sites... in the next expansion you have to be completely nuts to mine in a gravi site. I had a test with a friend on the test server, took me about 8 seconds to gank him in the gravi site soon as I landed in his system. Miners in null and WH willl have to skip the gravi sites and mine in the regular belts or they will fall like flies, ganking miners will be just too easy. yeah because belts aren't as easy to warp to, right? And you point is? You have only 1 ore/gravi site but 5 or more regular belt. So you as a ganker where you will warp first, the gravi site ori pick a random belt in the system? I'm taking about null and WH space where a miner suppose to hang out in the gravi sites and not the regular belts.
Those whom never had the time to check out how the new ice belts looks like and their composition in hi sec, here is a pic from the test server. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Sons Of Alexander AL3XAND3R.
501
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Posted - 2013.05.13 10:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sabotaged wrote:One thing is for certain, the new system will not accommodate current conditions, not even remotely close.
You are correct, multi-boxing carebears will have to innovate or die.
Sabotaged wrote:I for one won't be mining in Lowsec. Why? I'm not taking 14 macks and an Orca to mine ice, put up a POS, have it shot down, scout for gatecamps, jump bridging the goods to hisec, BC and BS rats etc. just so I can get ganked in 1.5 hour belt...of course I would have a lot of drones... but I dont want to have to work. Then quit.
Sabotaged wrote:Besides, would you risk 4 billion in assets just so you can have an ice belt to yourself in lower sec? If ice is valuable enough, people will do it. They will innovate. They will form fleets. They will leverage intel. No more AFK mining.
Sabotaged wrote:Join a corp with access? That may work for some. But personally I'm not going join all my characters. I've noticed recruiters tend to be greedy in this regard. They want your mining alt fleet and they also want all your unrelated characters too. So they get nothing. It's a social game, if you want to be anti-social, stay in hisec and fight over ice roids. Enjoy.
Sabotaged wrote:While CCP is ensuring that some ice must be mined in low sec, I suspect that if you don't do it already, you won't. if 20% of ice isn't mined in lower security space currently, I expect shortages. It's a harsh game remember?
The market is already reflecting changes before the release of the expansion. Whats going to happen? Higher fuel prices? Less POS's maintained? Increased T3 costs? Less Plex subs for multiboxers? There is also ice in null. Much of null is safer than hisec anyway. But carebears won't go to null because it doesn't suit an autistic anti-social playstyle.
Who cares? It's a market. If there are shortages, prices will rise. If prices get high enough, people will take risks and innovate, then prices will fall. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Danni stark
251
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Posted - 2013.05.13 10:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mhax Arthie wrote:Danni stark wrote:Mhax Arthie wrote:Ice belts are ok, I salute the changes. But I cannot understand what happened with the gravimetric sites... in the next expansion you have to be completely nuts to mine in a gravi site. I had a test with a friend on the test server, took me about 8 seconds to gank him in the gravi site soon as I landed in his system. Miners in null and WH willl have to skip the gravi sites and mine in the regular belts or they will fall like flies, ganking miners will be just too easy. yeah because belts aren't as easy to warp to, right? And you point is? You have only 1 ore/gravi site but 5 or more regular belt. So you as a ganker where you will warp first, the gravi site ori pick a random belt in the system? I'm taking about null and WH space where a miner suppose to hang out in the gravi sites and not the regular belts. Those whom never had the time to check out how the new ice belts looks like and their composition in hi sec, here is a pic from the test server.
no you don't, you have up to 7 grav sites in null. if you want to check how much ice the anoms have, fozzy made a post about it almost a few days ago. Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Xayder
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 11:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mordus tears best tears I don't always post, But when i post I do it with my main |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5000
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Posted - 2013.05.13 11:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:GreenSeed wrote:honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary.
Then you know what to do: wardec the multi boxer and kill him. Repeatedly. You don't have to wardec them. In many cases you can't. The real solution is, warp several smartbombing battleships into their midst and activate them all at once. |
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