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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
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CCP Tallest
C C P C C P Alliance
520
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Posted - 2013.05.15 09:44:00 -
[241] - Quote
Manssell wrote:Sylvia Nardieu wrote:Once again, what about Ladars? Come on CCP, this has been asked in every thread since the changes where announced and as far as I know never been answered. There are currently Ladar sites that are combat/hacking sites. With the moving of Ladars to just coming up on the new scanner without probes, are these sites going to stay hidden without probes, or will they just show up? Are they going to be removed? Will the rats stay or be removed and the mini-game added? Did ya'll know they existed, or just found out and are scrambling for a solution? Come on, give us something. Edit: EnglishGǪand drugs Ladars will mostly be unchanged. They will still include gas sites and booster themed combat and hacking sites. They will still need to be scanned down with probes. The only difference is that the new hacking and loot mechanics will be used for the hacking containers. Gÿà EVE Game Designer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ |
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Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2824
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Posted - 2013.05.15 09:47:00 -
[242] - Quote
Abigail Sagan wrote:
Thank you for the answer. So you had thought about it, just as I expected (even though I feared otherwise).
Well, it was clearly written right in the dev blog, in it's own chapter aptly subtitled:
Modules and Skills
EVE's Team Superfriends are working on broader changes to Exploration and are supporting us in updating the modules that you will be using. All existing modules and skills have been mapped over to this new system so those who have already trained them will have similar advantages that they currently enjoy.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Abigail Sagan
Active Fusion Cold Fusion.
28
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Posted - 2013.05.15 10:12:00 -
[243] - Quote
Roime wrote:Abigail Sagan wrote:
Thank you for the answer. So you had thought about it, just as I expected (even though I feared otherwise).
Well, it was clearly written right in the dev blog, in it's own chapter aptly subtitled: Modules and SkillsEVE's Team Superfriends are working on broader changes to Exploration and are supporting us in updating the modules that you will be using. All existing modules and skills have been mapped over to this new system so those who have already trained them will have similar advantages that they currently enjoy.
My mistake in that case. Thanks for politely slapping my wrist. I deserved that. I have to add though, that I would have liked little more info than what has been given, but since devil is in the detail, I let the devil slumber little longer. Hopefully the details will be ready at 4th of June.
Keep improving on the good work CCP!
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Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
27
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Posted - 2013.05.15 10:24:00 -
[244] - Quote
I do have another idea how you can connect hacking with PvP.
Imagine you are in your cloaked ship, sneaking up to an enemy vessel, and then being able to hack it (within 10KM range or something).
What could happen in the process of hacking the enemy ship?
- If you fail at the hacking game --> Your Cloak deactivates, your cover will be blown
- If you fail at the hacking game --> The enemy pilot will get a warning signal & sound, so he knows about you
- both of this things at the same time
- If you fail at SOME PART of the hacking game, like activating one of this defense subsystems, the enemy pilot may get a little but short warning (like a small signal on his screen, but only for a short time, to reward pilots which are careful at all times)
What could be your reward for hacking the enemy ship sucessfully?
- Information (or only parts of it) about the seize of his Fleet he is actually in (maybe shiptypes?)
- Bookmarks (his personal / corp-BM's), which are in the actual system (Safespots etc.)
- A chance to deactivate on of his modules, maybe a random one, maybe you could choose ("Someone hacked my Engines! :S")
- ... any more ideas anyone?
This would be so much fun, trying to sneak up on someone, gathering informations, deactivating his engines or disruptors, or whatever else you can imagine.
So, why should hacking only be PvE? PvP is so much more exciting, and good hackers / hacking ships would have a important role in player versus player combat
o7 Fly deadly |
Largus Jett
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.05.15 12:36:00 -
[245] - Quote
So this idea just fell into my head, I'd originally made a wall of text but decided against it, here is the TL:DR;
- Multiple Script slots in the code breaker module to tweak performance in different areas. - Scripts alter specific stats of your codebreaker - Mini game features different amounts of different obstacles depending on NPC faction.
I hoped for effects along the line of:
- Players tune their codebreakers to their target faction - Maybe Scripts can be made in an invention like fashion based on decryptor loot? - Players design the minigame layout on their own hackable structures, meaning an enemy hacker might need a diverse kitbag of scripts?
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Merouk Baas
642
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Posted - 2013.05.15 12:58:00 -
[246] - Quote
So, like, instead of jetting the **** into space and forcing us to try to grab it, how about you make the hacking minigame MULTIPLAYER so multiple people can hack from multiple access nodes and then coordinate their hacking minigame actions to finally win. And dish out mini-rewards during the game, for uncovering the juicy nodes. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
281
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Posted - 2013.05.15 13:43:00 -
[247] - Quote
Bleh, and here was I hoping for Indiana Jones 'in space' with a prince of persia style puzzle mini-game would be the logical next step for our new avatars and Archeology...
Ho hum. Hacking looks worth a try now though - cheers. |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
154
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Posted - 2013.05.15 14:29:00 -
[248] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:Manssell wrote:Sylvia Nardieu wrote:Once again, what about Ladars? Come on CCP, this has been asked in every thread since the changes where announced and as far as I know never been answered. There are currently Ladar sites that are combat/hacking sites. With the moving of Ladars to just coming up on the new scanner without probes, are these sites going to stay hidden without probes, or will they just show up? Are they going to be removed? Will the rats stay or be removed and the mini-game added? Did ya'll know they existed, or just found out and are scrambling for a solution? Come on, give us something. Edit: EnglishGǪand drugs Ladars will mostly be unchanged. They will still include gas sites and booster themed combat and hacking sites. They will still need to be scanned down with probes. The only difference is that the new hacking and loot mechanics will be used for the hacking containers.
Thanks. My drug habit can go on. |
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CCP Bayesian
746
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Posted - 2013.05.15 14:46:00 -
[249] - Quote
Largus Jett wrote:So this idea just fell into my head, I'd originally made a wall of text but decided against it, here is the TL:DR;
- Multiple Script slots in the code breaker module to tweak performance in different areas. - Scripts alter specific stats of your codebreaker - Mini game features different amounts of different obstacles depending on NPC faction.
I hoped for effects along the line of:
- Players tune their codebreakers to their target faction - Maybe Scripts can be made in an invention like fashion based on decryptor loot? - Players design the minigame layout on their own hackable structures, meaning an enemy hacker might need a diverse kitbag of scripts?
This is basically what I'd like to see if Utilities made it to the Market. You can fit your Hacking modules in advance and create them. There are lots of scope for passive boosts.
The last part in particular is a reach but would also be very cool. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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CCP Bayesian
746
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Posted - 2013.05.15 14:48:00 -
[250] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:So, like, instead of jetting the **** into space and forcing us to try to grab it, how about you make the hacking minigame MULTIPLAYER so multiple people can hack from multiple access nodes and then coordinate their hacking minigame actions to finally win. And dish out mini-rewards during the game, for uncovering the juicy nodes.
This sort of cooperative and competitive stuff is definitely something I'd like to explore. This first release is a step towards being able to add things like that. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Quintessen
Orion's Belt Mining and Pharmaceuticals
66
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Posted - 2013.05.15 15:49:00 -
[251] - Quote
Couple of thoughts. I'm all for making hacking/arch more multi-player friendly. My issues are that scanning really isn't. There's no good way to share information with your fleet or corp. Bookmarks make a poor usage since these things disappear after a short period of time. Additionally multiple people scanning a single system is annoying since you end up covering the same ground and if you do different systems then you often end up multiple systems apart and someone ends up having to warp around for what may end up being a poor payout or an already in-progress site.
Please find some ways for scanning to be more multi-player friendly. I think ultimately much of the reason that exploration before was a niche activity was that the tools were so unaligned with the activities and the scenarios.
- Scanning Frigs -- low combat facilities, but exploration requires combat [FIXED]
- Scanning -- solo activity where more people in the same system doesn't help [NEEDS FIXING]
- Scanning -- hacking/arch requires multiple people to be most effective, but scanning is still solo [NEEDS FIXING]
- Hacking/Arch -- requires multiple people to be most effective, but doesn't allow multiple people to participate except at the end leaving one person twiddling thumbs [NEEDS FIXING]
Exploration should naturally send you places you don't normally go. If you're in hi-sec you should just wander around until you find yourself 15 jumps from home because you kept searching. If I have to go back and get my ship it sucks because I feel tethered to my home base. You've mostly fixed that thankfully.
I think exploration will be most successful when the mechanics of it are married with the thematic of wanderlust. I think thematically it will be worst if you just end up making the same circuit twenty times around your home base.
And lastly my biggest issue with exploration as it stands now as a hi-sec profession is that it simply takes too long to find anything even if it's not rewarding. I scan down many times more combat, wormhole and empty ladar sites than I do radar or magnetometric. When I'm in my cov ops looking for exploration sites, even in 0.5, it's rare to find anything worth while which leads to a lot of frustration. You have this new interesting shiny. Please make is so that it doesn't take 3 hours of searching to find a single site worth doing.
p.s. a couple of suggestions:
If they aren't already put combat, gravametric, ladar, and radar/arch sites all on different spawn timers. I shouldn't have to do combat sites in order to replenish the radar/arch sites in the area.
Secondly, consider putting some level of control over the amount of time the cans stick around in space in the player's hands based on something they can control. E.g. if the length of time they stick around were tied to the remaining health of your virus, that might place some conflict between searching for utilities and finishing up the site with the most hit points available, |
Saelyth
Nex quod Principatus
2
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Posted - 2013.05.15 19:21:00 -
[252] - Quote
Raven Solaris wrote:
Bonuses to virus health and strength I take it?
Any chance of these making it onto Cov Ops hulls, or perhaps new, dedicated Covert Ops hacking frigates?
I think there are still 4 frigate hulls without tech 2 variants.
Add it to Electronic Attack Ships. They are rather grossly underused and creating a new market and use for them would boost their sales and value. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2840
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Posted - 2013.05.15 19:49:00 -
[253] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Couple of thoughts. I'm all for making hacking/arch more multi-player friendly. My issues are that scanning really isn't. There's no good way to share information with your fleet or corp. Bookmarks make a poor usage since these things disappear after a short period of time. Additionally multiple people scanning a single system is annoying since you end up covering the same ground and if you do different systems then you often end up multiple systems apart and someone ends up having to warp around for what may end up being a poor payout or an already in-progress site.
Multiple scanners working the same system is an everyday thing in wormhole corps. Splitting the sigs can be done either by signature, or location.
Quote:Exploration should naturally send you places you don't normally go. If you're in hi-sec you should just wander around until you find yourself 15 jumps from home because you kept searching. If I have to go back and get my ship it sucks because I feel tethered to my home base. You've mostly fixed that thankfully. I think exploration will be most successful when the mechanics of it are married with the thematic of wanderlust. I think thematically it will be worst if you just end up making the same circuit twenty times around your home base.
I always just wander around when I explore, and escalations literally cause you naturally to wander, by sending you to other systems. Many people go on exploration trips to remote areas, and come "home" only after long time. Home is where your pod is!
Quote:And lastly my biggest issue with exploration as it stands now as a hi-sec profession is that it simply takes too long to find anything even if it's not rewarding. I scan down many times more combat, wormhole and empty ladar sites than I do radar or magnetometric. When I'm in my cov ops looking for exploration sites, even in 0.5, it's rare to find anything worth while which leads to a lot of frustration. You have this new interesting shiny. Please make is so that it doesn't take 3 hours of searching to find a single site worth doing.
Leave the busy hisec then :) it's not uncommon to find several profession sites in every system of a lowsec constellation. They are also more valuable.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1686
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Posted - 2013.05.15 19:57:00 -
[254] - Quote
I was hesitant about banging my head against yet another door, but here it goes.
This whole hacking mini game would be a much more sensible and soloable feature if the stuff being hacked was being held inside a sealed container which could be hauled, sold, bought, jettisoned, et cetera, and could be hacked once the ship was safely cloaked/docked.
Of course, "sensible" and "soloable" gameplay is not what EVE is about, but I just had to point out the obvious. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2841
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Posted - 2013.05.15 20:10:00 -
[255] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I was hesitant about banging my head against yet another door, but here it goes.
This whole hacking mini game would be a much more sensible and soloable feature if the stuff being hacked was being held inside a sealed container which could be hauled, sold, bought, jettisoned, et cetera, and could be hacked once the ship was safely cloaked/docked.
Of course, "sensible" and "soloable" gameplay is not what EVE is about, but I just had to point out the obvious.
Did you know that others solo sensibly exploration sites every day, while you whine?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Zappity
Kurved Space
85
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:28:00 -
[256] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I was hesitant about banging my head against yet another door, but here it goes.
This whole hacking mini game would be a much more sensible and soloable feature if the stuff being hacked was being held inside a sealed container which could be hauled, sold, bought, jettisoned, et cetera, and could be hacked once the ship was safely cloaked/docked.
Of course, "sensible" and "soloable" gameplay is not what EVE is about, but I just had to point out the obvious.
I do not like this idea for two reasons:
1. 'Explorers' already have little interaction with other players.
2. I wouldn't be able to steal your stuff as easily and I am looking forward to that.
Think of it as career progression for junior ninja looters. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1688
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:31:00 -
[257] - Quote
Roime wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I was hesitant about banging my head against yet another door, but here it goes.
This whole hacking mini game would be a much more sensible and soloable feature if the stuff being hacked was being held inside a sealed container which could be hauled, sold, bought, jettisoned, et cetera, and could be hacked once the ship was safely cloaked/docked.
Of course, "sensible" and "soloable" gameplay is not what EVE is about, but I just had to point out the obvious. Did you know that others solo sensibly exploration sites every day, while you whine?
The new mini game will take longer and thus will keep the explorer ship exposed for longer. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Zappity
Kurved Space
85
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:38:00 -
[258] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:The new mini game will take longer and thus will keep the explorer ship exposed for longer.
Yes, it's good isn't it! Hopefully the minigame is really difficult and absorbing so people forget about d-scan. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1688
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:46:00 -
[259] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:The new mini game will take longer and thus will keep the explorer ship exposed for longer. Yes, it's good isn't it! Hopefully the minigame is really difficult and absorbing so people forget about d-scan.
As i said, "sensible" and "soloable" are not a part of EVE gameplay design. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2844
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:52:00 -
[260] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: The new mini game will take longer and thus will keep the explorer ship exposed for longer.
How can you tell? Currently the duration of the operation is totally random, and you, the player can't speed up the process.
Furthermore there aren't rats in the sites anymore, and you are not subject to multiple random spawns, lowering the total site completion time.
Quote:As i said, "sensible" and "soloable" are not a part of EVE gameplay design.
Yes they are, you can solo everything except fleet fights and team PVE.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
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Arriaz
Mythic Heights
6
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Posted - 2013.05.16 00:08:00 -
[261] - Quote
Roime wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I was hesitant about banging my head against yet another door, but here it goes.
This whole hacking mini game would be a much more sensible and soloable feature if the stuff being hacked was being held inside a sealed container which could be hauled, sold, bought, jettisoned, et cetera, and could be hacked once the ship was safely cloaked/docked.
Of course, "sensible" and "soloable" gameplay is not what EVE is about, but I just had to point out the obvious. Did you know that others solo sensibly exploration sites every day, while you whine?
How exactly is this comment helpful? After the poster has a point that is recognized by many. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
758
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Posted - 2013.05.16 00:26:00 -
[262] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: The new mini game will take longer and thus will keep the explorer ship exposed for longer.
please ban pvp and all player interaction from this single player game that some fool linked to a bunch of other people playing the same game thanks |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
132
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Posted - 2013.05.16 03:41:00 -
[263] - Quote
I'm not sure if it's been answered, but what happens to my presumably now useless archaeology V etc? Are the use of these skills now being changed since I presume they don't affect the outcome of the hacking game?
Also I'm not sure about the multiple cans dropping and expiring before you can pick them up unless you have more than one character. Last time I ran some, radar and mag sites weren't exactly a fountain of isk and dividing it into two will hurt. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
Crazy Dave
SCAVENGERS
0
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Posted - 2013.05.16 04:54:00 -
[264] - Quote
One of the things i think that is being over looked in the hacking skills is the ability to hack in to the many secured containers we see ancored in space. Not even in the real world is something totally immune to unauthorized accessing. I hope to see this ability added in to the game at some point. Same with being able to hack in to a POS. |
OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
39
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Posted - 2013.05.16 05:48:00 -
[265] - Quote
Because of living in null, two questions seem of importance to me: -How long time of completion, for the hardcore sites? -Will it be still luck pending, no matter your skill or experience? |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2844
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Posted - 2013.05.16 06:19:00 -
[266] - Quote
Arriaz wrote:Roime wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I was hesitant about banging my head against yet another door, but here it goes.
This whole hacking mini game would be a much more sensible and soloable feature if the stuff being hacked was being held inside a sealed container which could be hauled, sold, bought, jettisoned, et cetera, and could be hacked once the ship was safely cloaked/docked.
Of course, "sensible" and "soloable" gameplay is not what EVE is about, but I just had to point out the obvious. Did you know that others solo sensibly exploration sites every day, while you whine? How exactly is this comment helpful? After the poster has a point that is recognized by many.
My reply to her minority view was that most players are very happy to solo sensibly exploration sites all over New Eden even as she whines.
How was your comment helpful?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1689
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Posted - 2013.05.16 06:59:00 -
[267] - Quote
Roime wrote:Arriaz wrote:Roime wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I was hesitant about banging my head against yet another door, but here it goes.
This whole hacking mini game would be a much more sensible and soloable feature if the stuff being hacked was being held inside a sealed container which could be hauled, sold, bought, jettisoned, et cetera, and could be hacked once the ship was safely cloaked/docked.
Of course, "sensible" and "soloable" gameplay is not what EVE is about, but I just had to point out the obvious. Did you know that others solo sensibly exploration sites every day, while you whine? How exactly is this comment helpful? After the poster has a point that is recognized by many. My reply to her minority view was that most players are very happy to solo sensibly exploration sites all over New Eden even as she whines. How was your comment helpful?
Useful clues:
I played Deus Ex: HR I've been exploring for a while now I've tested the hacking game in its curent state
The hacking game is a more complicated Deus Ex hacking game. It takes certainly longer as it hasn't been implemented with time constraints in mind. And exploration ships are not exactly good at PvP, nor at combat.
So my sensible approach is to scan while cloaked, get in, hack, and GTFO ASAP. That, in "high" security space.
Spend 10 minutes struggling with the hacking game while anyone can instapop me with a destroyer it's not exactly a pleasant tought. This is the way EVE does things, of course, but then as I said, EVE gameplay is not bound to be sensible nor soloable.
Lootable "treasure chests" would allow explorers like me follow their standard procedure of get in & get out ASAP. Also, bad hackers still could profit by selling the containers rather than botch them. And of course, everyone would dream of looting a top-tier "omega" container, and sell it to the dedicated corporations with hackers skilled enough to succesfully open them -or skill himself to open it on his own.
What wouldn't happen would be noobs instapoped in their first attempt and giving a f*** to the mini game that distracted them from their safety; what would not happen would be nullbears reaping profits for their safety networks; what would not happen would be 30 to 1 l33t blobbing of busy explorers; what would not happen would be sensible players avoiding a minigame that essentially paints a giant bullseye on them for 10 minutes for a miserable reward; and so and so.
What would not happen is everyhting that makes EVE a miserable game for soloers for no reason at all.
And you know what? I bet thet the whole "lootable containers that could be hacked offsite" idea was forwarded at least once, as someone was aware that forcing explorers to remain in site while struggling with the minigame was a gratuitous risk. And then every smartass around said "HTFU!" and the current "stay here to die" minigame was born.
There's nothing anyone can do about it, but at least i give myself the satisfaction of talking about the path to success that was devotely avoided because EVE is not about doing stuff in a sensible nor soloable way.
Better have only 25% of all potential hackers, than actually give a chance to players who don't exactly fit into EVE. CCP wants few but chosen players, and with multiple accounts each, of course. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2845
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 07:16:00 -
[268] - Quote
If you think using a cloak in highsec is sensible (it's paranoid), and I find exploration in low and null safe, this discussion is not going to go anywhere.
Like republicans, religious zealots and classic national socialists, you let fear control your life and dim your reason.
In a game.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
759
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:21:00 -
[269] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Better have only 25% of all potential hackers, than actually give a chance to players who don't exactly fit into EVE. CCP wants few but chosen players, and with multiple accounts each, of course. yes let us design all things around people who whine on the forums constantly that there are other people in this mmorpg |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2848
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:37:00 -
[270] - Quote
The threat from other players (NPCs aren't a threat) is what makes stuff like exploration exciting. **** gets enjoyable when someone enters the system and starts hunting you, and satisfaction ensues when you outwit the hunter(s) and grab the treasures. The treasures which are mostly a symbolic objective, it's completing the sites under pressure that creates the sensation of "winning".
This new minigame replaces an incredibly boring and uninteractive waiting phase with something that can generate satisfaction- my personal experience from EVE is that the more stuff there is going on, the more engaging the experience is. I like active tanking drone ships for the same reason, more buttons and meters to deal with is just more fun than F1->bacon.
Perfect exploration session includes combat probes on dscan, getting a nice drop and popping some poor scrub on the way home in my PVE ship :)
I like things like excitement, risk and satisfaction in a game, otherwise I could just as well do something productive, or waste my time watching telly.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
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