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Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
181
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Posted - 2013.05.15 06:35:00 -
[61] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:I think people (should) use wardens on missile boats. Since you don't fit omnis you want the longest range sentry if you were going to use them at all. And then it will have less dps than a flight of regular drones. What's the point?
Cause im not depressed enough to think about putting mediums in my drone bay yet.
When that happens I will for sure leave a suicide note. |
Lugalzagezi666
114
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Posted - 2013.05.15 08:16:00 -
[62] - Quote
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:Just get effin Golem! Yeah, I was looking at new CNR and first thing that came on my mind was its basically golem without any utility.
Tsukino Stareine wrote:I think people (should) use wardens on missile boats. Since you don't fit omnis you want the longest range sentry if you were going to use them at all. I use curators + hobs on all my ships (amarr missions) and I can tell you the time they actually spend dpsing is so low , that the difference between 3 sentrys and 2 sentrys + 3 hobs isnt even worth mentioning... Why? Mostly because unlike turret battleships, missile ships ABSOLUTELY NEED to have lights out for clearing npc frigs and when you dont need to kill frigs you most likely need to move to acc gate.
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Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
181
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Posted - 2013.05.15 08:21:00 -
[63] - Quote
well of course you'd keept a set of lights on you, but I wouldn't send them out like 50km because they'll most likely die
hence sentries. |
Lugalzagezi666
114
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Posted - 2013.05.15 09:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:well of course you'd keept a set of lights on you, but I wouldn't send them out like 50km because they'll most likely die
hence sentries.
If you cleared npc frigs (priority for drones if you are in missile ship) and other npcs are attacking you, you can send your lights anywhere.
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Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2013.05.15 09:12:00 -
[65] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote: Mostly because unlike turret battleships, missile ships ABSOLUTELY NEED to have lights out
WHAT?
Lights are only for elite-frigates, or for adding DPS while shooting big stuff.. Helpful, yeah, absolutely needed? Hell no.
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Lugalzagezi666
114
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Posted - 2013.05.15 09:55:00 -
[66] - Quote
Gimme more Cynos wrote:[quote=Lugalzagezi666] WHAT?
Lights are only for elite-frigates, or for adding DPS while shooting big stuff.. Helpful, yeah, absolutely needed? Hell no.
I am talking about efficient missioning here not some kind of "hurrdurr ima going to waste four 7k mjolnir fury volleys on that frig because i dont need drones at all."
If you are shooting anything smaller than a cruiser with cruise missiles, you are doing it wrong. |
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Malcanis wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:
SNI and CNR have the same damage,
There is no scenario where the SNI does more damage than the CNR. There are many scenarios where the CNR does more damage than the SNI. In short: you are provably wrong here. SNI kept its 5% rof bonus, CNR didn't. That's equivalent of more than 8 launchers vs exactly 8 launchers. Indeed, and the SNI pilot knows how to take care of the damage application himself with tp's and rigs. I can't believe how many people here just argue with the hull attributes only without factoring in how the ships are really fitted... |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2013.05.16 02:09:00 -
[68] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:[quote=Lugalzagezi666] WHAT?
Lights are only for elite-frigates, or for adding DPS while shooting big stuff.. Helpful, yeah, absolutely needed? Hell no.
I am talking about efficient missioning here not some kind of "hurrdurr ima going to waste four 7k mjolnir fury volleys on that frig because i dont need drones at all." If you are shooting anything smaller than a cruiser with cruise missiles, you are doing it wrong.
Now show me how that works out in WWC's (Angel/Sansha) - Angel site. Also, ever heard about precision?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9410
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Posted - 2013.05.16 06:36:00 -
[69] - Quote
Johnson Oramara wrote:sabre906 wrote:Malcanis wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:
SNI and CNR have the same damage,
There is no scenario where the SNI does more damage than the CNR. There are many scenarios where the CNR does more damage than the SNI. In short: you are provably wrong here. SNI kept its 5% rof bonus, CNR didn't. That's equivalent of more than 8 launchers vs exactly 8 launchers. Indeed, and the SNI pilot knows how to take care of the damage application himself with tp's and rigs. I can't believe how many people here just argue with the hull attributes only without factoring in how the ships are really fitted...
Both hulls have 8 equivalent launchers.
1 Kings 12:11
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Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
138
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Posted - 2013.05.16 08:57:00 -
[70] - Quote
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:Just get effin Golem!... I am working on it, give me time!
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Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
138
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Posted - 2013.05.16 09:00:00 -
[71] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:... Mostly because unlike turret battleships, missile ships ABSOLUTELY NEED to have lights...
My CNR has lots of drones... I don't recall the last time I used them in a L4 mission. |
Lugalzagezi666
116
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Posted - 2013.05.16 09:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
Gimme more Cynos wrote:Now show me how that works out in WWC's (Angel/Sansha) - Angel site. Also, ever heard about precision?
It works perfectly in angel/sansha wc (its the one I get for amarr agent). I warp in, activate ab and till I get to angel gate I pop the high bounty bs that unlocks it and some other bses. I warp in second pocket, lock spies, start shooting bses/bcs while agroing everything, meanwhile I set drones on spies and every other frig that is webbing/scramming me. By the time I get to acc gate everything worth killing (I never bother killing dessies or elite cruisers if i dont have to) and pointing me is dead. Warp into last pocket, shoot group 1, shoot the bses + occasional tackler, warp out (sometimes I do sansha side too, but usually only if I dont have any other "good" mission ready from my agent).
But I never shoot frigs with cruise missiles and tbh I rarely switch from furys in any mission. I cant see how shooting frigs with missiles would help you in this mission. Unless you are blitzing it and if you do, there are much better ships available for it. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
138
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Posted - 2013.05.16 09:41:00 -
[73] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:....Mostly because unlike turret battleships, missile ships ABSOLUTELY NEED to have lights out for clearing npc frigs...
I have to say it makes me laugh if I imagine all that wasted dps, but that is your problem.
As for wasted DPS and not using drones.... more of a tactical choice not to use drones... I have pirate issues in my missions. Very smart ones.
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Signal11th
The Retirement Club
961
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Posted - 2013.05.16 09:49:00 -
[74] - Quote
I take it this is why the Raven Navy is nearly the same price as a golem now? give or take a hundred mill. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
mama guru
Thundercats The Initiative.
117
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Posted - 2013.05.16 10:32:00 -
[75] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:You can already comfortably kill cruisers just using rigors and 2 tps. Plus 1 mid means another painter and increased calibration means upgrading one rigor to t2. So you dont need any new "precision" bonus to efficiently kill cruisers and battleships. Wasted bonus and in case of cruise cnr its actually 2 wasted bonuses.
Think a little, less TP's = more propulsion mods without penalising either damage or tank.
______
EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak. |
Julius Priscus
107
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Posted - 2013.05.16 10:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
CNR will never be what it was in late 2004 and upto the great missile nerf/adjustment of 2005.
it lost its crown once that happened. -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9421
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Posted - 2013.05.16 11:39:00 -
[77] - Quote
Juggling target painters sucks, tbh. We missile users don't get tracking computers which just work. We get TPs which have to be manually switched and cycle synchronised.
A 25% precision bonus is equivalent to a 33% tracking bonus. I call that pretty good. If you want to free up a Rig Slot for something else, you can do so and still come out ahead of the game. Personally, I'll probably just go to 2x T2 Rigors, 1x T2 Flare and drop the target painter.
Then I'm looking at the possibility leveraging the extra mid and the freed up TP slot to drop the cap booster as well.
1 Kings 12:11
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Lugalzagezi666
117
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Posted - 2013.05.16 13:24:00 -
[78] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:As for wasted DPS and not using drones.... more of a tactical choice not to use drones... I have pirate issues in my missions. Very smart ones. So you basically agree that you are wasting your dps... If it works for you, Im ok with that. Even though I cant imagine that probing for battleship as something something difficult and I dont think that just fact you dont have your drones out is going to discourage someone from chasing pve faction battleship.
mama guru wrote:Think a little, less TP's = more propulsion mods without penalising either damage or tank. Cant wait to fly my tripleprop pve cnr.
Malcanis wrote:Then I'm looking at the possibility leveraging the extra mid and the freed up TP slot to drop the cap booster as well. You should probably look into medium pith booster golem - you know, it will be like cnr only with better tank and some utility. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1830
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Posted - 2013.05.16 14:25:00 -
[79] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:As for wasted DPS and not using drones.... more of a tactical choice not to use drones... I have pirate issues in my missions. Very smart ones. So you basically agree that you are wasting your dps... If it works for you, Im ok with that. Even though I cant imagine that probing for battleship as something something difficult and I dont think that just fact you dont have your drones out is going to discourage someone from chasing pve faction battleship.
You've obviously never tried to scan someone down in null sec. drones MWD all over the place, makig them worlds away easier to probe down than a battleship that isn't MWDing.
Why do you think CCP put things like precision missiles in the game? Your choice to not use weapons in certain ways is your choice (and not a very good one where people like Bi-Mi and i live).
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Lugalzagezi666
117
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Posted - 2013.05.16 14:56:00 -
[80] - Quote
No, I never tried to scan someone in null sec. I used to do that from time to time in lowsec and I dont really see the difference in probing between lowsec and 0.0. Neither I see the difficult part in probing battleship even without drones - basically as soon as someone enters local and you are not aligning to warp out you asking for trouble.
Pveing in cnr in local with possible enemies and thinking that not launching drones will protect you from getting probed down... Well, whatever.
I for example already know that I will never use precision cruise missiles in hisec l4s and I wont ever shoot frigs with cruise missiles (exactly as I never used them till now and exactly as I never used precisions with tengu). My choice. Very good one for the "minority" that will use cruises for hisec l4 missions.
And tbh I think they put precision missiles into the game because they could think of anything else - fact that they were completely useless for a long time confirms that. They can become useful with cruise buff in pvp on phoons though. |
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Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2013.05.16 17:01:00 -
[81] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote: It works perfectly in angel/sansha wc (its the one I get for amarr agent). I warp in, activate ab and till I get to angel gate I pop the high bounty bs that unlocks it and some other bses.
tell me more miracle stories..
Group 1 in angel-pocket is having 2 elite-frigs with webs.. if you don't bother with them at all, you arrive in second pocket after.. uhm, 15 minutes +/- a few..
You can't just ignore them if you want to be efficient, period. |
Lugalzagezi666
118
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Posted - 2013.05.16 23:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
Gimme more Cynos wrote:Lugalzagezi666 wrote: It works perfectly in angel/sansha wc (its the one I get for amarr agent). I warp in, activate ab and till I get to angel gate I pop the high bounty bs that unlocks it and some other bses.
tell me more miracle stories.. Group 1 in angel-pocket is having 2 elite-frigs with webs.. if you don't bother with them at all, you arrive in second pocket after.. uhm, 15 minutes +/- a few.. You can't just ignore them if you want to be efficient, period.
The part quoted talks about initial room of the mission - that can be skipped completely with some key that drops in damsel mission, its my personal preference to kill battleships there (and I rarely have the key). Its the second room that has angel spies and frigs and as I said I use drones to kill the ones that are webbing/scramming me after I agress the whole room so drones are not disturbed while killing frigs.
But yeah, Im playing on miracle server with miracle ships and miracle drones. |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2013.05.17 09:31:00 -
[83] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:Lugalzagezi666 wrote: It works perfectly in angel/sansha wc (its the one I get for amarr agent). I warp in, activate ab and till I get to angel gate I pop the high bounty bs that unlocks it and some other bses.
tell me more miracle stories.. Group 1 in angel-pocket is having 2 elite-frigs with webs.. if you don't bother with them at all, you arrive in second pocket after.. uhm, 15 minutes +/- a few.. You can't just ignore them if you want to be efficient, period. The part quoted talks about initial room of the mission - that can be skipped completely with some key that drops in damsel mission, its my personal preference to kill battleships there (and I rarely have the key). Its the second room that has angel spies and frigs and as I said I use drones to kill the ones that are webbing/scramming me after I agress the whole room so drones are not disturbed while killing frigs. But yeah, Im playing on miracle server with miracle ships and miracle drones.
K, my fault at reading, sry.
Anyway, I doubt those 8 elite-frigs in the angel pocket will let your drones live in peace just because you got stage aggro. Personal experience says that it might work sometimes, just not allways :) |
Texty
State War Academy Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2013.05.17 12:05:00 -
[84] - Quote
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:Just get effin Golem!
4 launchers, 1000+ dps, TP bonus.. etc. No problems with defenders eating your cruises all the time. Group of 4 cruises rarely lure out defender from NPC, once in a month?
+you waste half of money killing stuff
with todays CNR, every other volley was hit by defender and now with +1 launcher it will be even worse.
damsel in distress battleship NPC-s, golem oneshots cruiser/bc doupt if cnr can do it.
golem odyssey 2 volleys golem today 3 volleys cnr today 3-4 cnr odyssey still 3... +waste double amount of ammo +pesky defenders
Did damsel have any BCs?
Anyway, I've been flying the new CNR at sisi and it was great. Easily one-shots BCs and TPed Cruisers (non-elite). 2-3 shots Gist Commanders, 3-4 shots Gist Warlords. I was never able to do AE4 full kill within 2 payouts in my CNR at Tranquility but was able to do it with the new CNR without even trying to.
The slower RoF and faster missile speed have made volley counting very comfortable too since you almost don't have to count them up to targets at something like 70km range (not sure about the distance).
BTW, I fly a 3 * Rigored CNR at Tranquility but changed the rigs to T2 BLA and two T1 Flares at Singularity. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1840
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Posted - 2013.05.17 13:35:00 -
[85] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:No, I never tried to scan someone in null sec. I used to do that from time to time in lowsec and I dont really see the difference in probing between lowsec and 0.0. Neither I see the difficult part in probing battleship even without drones - basically as soon as someone enters local and you are not aligning to warp out you asking for trouble.
Pveing in cnr in local with possible enemies and thinking that not launching drones will protect you from getting probed down... Well, whatever.
And yet I've been doing it like this for 5 years with the SAME CNR (I learned the sutpidity of using drones with neuts in local, lost a rattlesnake but just because I got scrammed by an npc frig at the wrong moment, but have never lost that CNR).
It's more than obvious that you have no null sec experience, why you you warp our of an escalation if they have no probes on scan? They can't scan the escalation and scanning your ship will take time, what you don't want is MWDing little frigs reducing their scanning time from minutes to seconds.
Get some experience with null sec PVE then come back and tell us you won't use missiles on small ships....
Quote: I for example already know that I will never use precision cruise missiles in hisec l4s and I wont ever shoot frigs with cruise missiles (exactly as I never used them till now and exactly as I never used precisions with tengu). My choice. Very good one for the "minority" that will use cruises for hisec l4 missions.
And tbh I think they put precision missiles into the game because they could think of anything else - fact that they were completely useless for a long time confirms that. They can become useful with cruise buff in pvp on phoons though.
You must not have been around when they introduced precision missiles then that's EXACTLY what they are for, shooting smaller ships. Your whole "if you are shooting cruise missiles at smaller ships" thing is simply wrong, CCP gave us that tool (precisions) for exactly that. it's the same reason they introduced Target Painters (which are generally useless on big ships).
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Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2013.05.17 13:47:00 -
[86] - Quote
Why should he just take down elite-frigs with 2 volley's of precision, when he can watch his drones killing them slowly over minutes..
Anyway, I'm still clueless why he said that drones are absolutely needed.. after all, they are just dmg support since precisions got buffed. |
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.05.17 16:01:00 -
[87] - Quote
Gimme more Cynos wrote:Why should he just take down elite-frigs with 2 volley's of precision, when he can watch his drones killing them slowly over minutes..
Anyway, I'm still clueless why he said that drones are absolutely needed.. after all, they are just dmg support since precisions got buffed.
Meh.. drones kill elite-frigs while I shoot fat ones with fury's. tbh hobgob II-s can kill elite-frig faster than I reload precision and shoot em... |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1843
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Posted - 2013.05.17 17:19:00 -
[88] - Quote
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:Why should he just take down elite-frigs with 2 volley's of precision, when he can watch his drones killing them slowly over minutes..
Anyway, I'm still clueless why he said that drones are absolutely needed.. after all, they are just dmg support since precisions got buffed. Meh.. drones kill elite-frigs while I shoot fat ones with fury's. tbh hobgob II-s can kill elite-frig faster than I reload precision and shoot em...
I'll bet you're in high sec where you have time to do that, right? That was the point we were making to the other guy, outside of high sec you use whatever you got to kill stuff as fast as you can so you can GTFO. Many times escalations take me to hostile space, i ain't gonna wait for my hobs to chew that last pithii frig just to save some cruise ammo.
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CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.05.17 17:22:00 -
[89] - Quote
ofc in hisec.. T3 is much better for hostile places so I even dont consider taking any bs there.. let alone cnr or golem |
stoicfaux
2707
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Posted - 2013.05.17 17:27:00 -
[90] - Quote
Return of the King? Or Everyone is a King in the Socialist Paradise that Odyssey Will Herald In?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=230551&find=unread
PDF Reports comparing the Odyssey cruise missile/ship changes are available in the above link: * cnr_flare_v_rigor_odyssey.pdf * cnr_rigs_odyssey.pdf * cnr_v_fleet_typhoon_odyssey.pdf * cnr_v_typhoon_v_raven_v_fleet_typhoon_v_sni_v_golem_odyssey.pdf * cruise_cnr_v_torp_golem.pdf * raven_v_cnr_odyssey.pdf * tengu_ham_v_hml.pdf
It should help answer the CNR is just a Golem-Lite question. Or whether the CNR's "applied damage" bonus sets it apart from the "everything now has 8 effective launchers" ship changes.
You can also mess around with the easy to read spreadsheet.[1]
[1] I think Perl is easy to read. That's your only warning. |
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