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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
3767
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Posted - 2013.05.15 15:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
As some of you have seen on our test server Singularity, the option to train alts on the same account for PLEX is being implemented. To further explain the details of this sought after function, CCP Quant and CCP Ytterbium have written a new dev blog which we invite you to feast your eyes on.
And of course we eagerly await your feedback and questions as always. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
88
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Awesome! |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
1136
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cool |
David Magnus
161
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
This is a great additional feature that will be very useful in lots of circumstances!
It's not a replacement for alt accounts, but is perfect for training up a fixed-skillpoint alt for a specific job when you don't want or need to have a full second account always subscribed.
Thank you very much! http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
6
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Going to have to take out a mortgage to keep up now |
Rico Ramos
STARMINE inc Solaris Mortis
19
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
This to me is by far the best feature you ever added to this great game! Now I can train my alt, I made years ago. Internet Space Ships is Serious Business |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
4975
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
A nice convenience and usability improvement for alt training. Thank you. |
Roajax
Your Accidental Wormhole Neighbors
5
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Go the full distance.... Increase the number of toons per account to at least 9. Allow us to login multiple characters at once.
IE: If I'm paying 2 plex's per month I should be able to login 2 toons on that account. Nothing worse than trying to make the right combo of pilots + cynos work when there are ridiculous account restrictions. IE: toon1 on account#1 with cyno. toon #2 on account #2 with carrier. toon #3 on account #1 with jump freighter. See the problem? Would be a ton easier if I could just whichever 2 toons I need. |
DmitryEKT
AMMO INC
117
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Will we have triple training as an option too? I run the only free empire jumpclone service where you can get a clone without changing corps! Check it out! |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
73
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Will you use this opportunity to make single character training a bit more usable?
Let's say I want to train a very short skill (a few hours) on an alt character that isn't worth a plex. Currently we have to:
1) Log out 2) Log in the character currently training and pause it. 3) Log out again 4) Log back into the character you want to train temporarily and start the skill.
Why can't starting a skill from an alt automatically pause the other character on the same account? |
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Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
280
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQCP85FngzE
always wanted to post it for a CCP dev blog. Now I finally have a chance :)
speaking of which: why cant we use money to pay for dual training and only plex? Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Krell Kroenen
Miners In Possession
164
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nifty feature. I approve. |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
75
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:
speaking of which: why cant we use money to pay for dual training and only plex?
You can buy plex for money from the account management page. |
Valkyrs
Deep Vein Trading
63
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Very interesting! I currently don't have an alt but I use the two on my account fairly often. Training multiple accounts could be useful indeed!
It might also be nice to divide SP per hour between characters, so I can enable training on another character, then pause it when I want my main to go back to full speed. I understand this is a more complicated case though.
Since the PLEX/15$ I spent on my main is essentially paying for bandwidth, the content, enhancements, etc, and aside from the training queue advancing, can we get more for the PLEX?
Either:
A dual training character can log in simultaneously as the main account, or The second training queue provides a slightly longer period. (40 days? 45?)
I like the feature either way and will likely use it, but you are charging a full PLEX for something that has little to no impact to your system.
I hope hop-swapping characters is on the table next!
Keep it up CCP. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1826
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
You didn't say loud enough so i fixed.
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CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
216
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Roajax wrote:Go the full distance.... Increase the number of toons per account to at least 9. Allow us to login multiple characters at once.
IE: If I'm paying 2 plex's per month I should be able to login 2 toons on that account. Nothing worse than trying to make the right combo of pilots + cynos work when there are ridiculous account restrictions. IE: toon1 on account#1 with cyno. toon #2 on account #2 with carrier. toon #3 on account #1 with jump freighter. See the problem? Would be a ton easier if I could just whichever 2 toons I need.
This is a HUGE task. Really big emphasis on how difficult this is. Not comparable in scope to what we had to do for this feature.
xttz wrote:Will you use this opportunity to make single character training a bit more usable?
Let's say I want to train a very short skill (a few hours) on an alt character that isn't worth a plex. Currently we have to:
1) Log out 2) Log in the character currently training and pause it. 3) Log out again 4) Log back into the character you want to train temporarily and start the skill.
Why can't starting a skill from an alt automatically pause the other character on the same account?
It's funny because we were just discussing how the technical changes implemented to allow for this feature would also allow for pausing a character you are not logged into. Not likely to make it for Odyssey but certainly something we will consider for the future. Feel free to poke me on: Twitter |
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Valkyrs
Deep Vein Trading
63
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
xttz wrote:...Why can't starting a skill from an alt automatically pause the other character on the same account?
I've always wondered this as well! Especially when I THOUGHT I paused the queue, only to have to go back again. Or when I went to make dinner and forgot I wasn't training until the next day. If it's smart enough to realize someone else is training, please offer to pause it and start it on the current character. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1753
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Excellent call.
Oh, there'll be complaints and conspiracy theories, and accusations of "pay to win" but I can't see that this makes a game-breaking change. Sure, people who PLEX will gain in flexibility and capability, but if they're able to PLEX this, well, they've already more-or-less 'won' at EVE anyway, so what's the point in complaining?
Where I see the largest complaints coming is from the fact that this capability would've vastly eased dealing with the Battlecruiser teircide update. My response those (stull imaginary - for now!) complaints is - "It's here now, and all future updates to skill progress will benefit. Deal."
Not an easy subject to get right, but IMO, it has been gotten as close to right as is possible. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Riffix
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
51
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Meh.
I know I am in the minority on this but I think alts in this game are stupid, period.
This MMO doesn't have class/race/faction restrictions of any kind so there is no good reason to have more than one character.
All they do is reduce the need for players to work together, whether it's industry, PVE, or PVP. They also players to avoid responsibility by hiding behind things like forum alts, throw away neutral spies, and things like being a super-cap pilot no longer has to be a lifestyle choice, just an alt you log when needed.
This just makes the problem worse.
.
Lead, Follow, or Get the #@$!@ Out of the Way. |
Anathema Matou
Moonmaiden Ltd.
2
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
This new feature has a UI problem. Please keep the option to activate dual training 2 steps away from activate game time, to avoid... accidents , i.e. below the "return to redeem items" option.
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Quintessen
Orion's Belt Mining and Pharmaceuticals
67
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
I would love it if you could log into multiple characters on the same account if we're paying twice over.
First, there's the premium of PLEX over subscription, but now we're talking about paying more, but losing the ability to multi-box.
Given how strongly CCP has pushed multi-boxing over the years it seems reasonable to allow for the fact that many people have two or more accounts. Being able to log-on to as many accounts as you have time paid for would be great. I know that's a very long-term issue that will require a lot of revamp, but it would be nice if it were solved.
Perhaps in the mean time PLEX could get you all three accounts trained simultaneously since we're already paying a premium -- tough I imagine that would negatively impact CCP revenue.
This is a holdover, but I'd still like to see real reform on account management in the future so I don't have to have quite so many hurdles in managing multiple accounts.
p.s. Have you considered a character transfer holiday so that people who were using two or more accounts to train can move their characters to one account for a discounted price now that this feature is in place? |
Kip Troger
Exiled Kings Enlightened Violence
14
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
What happens if you have an alt that currently is dual training along side your main and you sell that alt on the character bazzarre and transfer it to another account?
Is the 30 days basically just a bank that you can use whenever, and you can use it or save it as needed, or is it constantly running as a use or lose? |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2829
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Yeah very nice,
what about the drone fixes?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Quintessen
Orion's Belt Mining and Pharmaceuticals
67
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kip Troger wrote:What happens if you have an alt that currently is dual training along side your main and you sell that alt on the character bazzarre and transfer it to another account?
Is the 30 days basically just a bank that you can use whenever, and you can use it or save it as needed, or is it constantly running as a use or lose?
It sounds like a bank. The question would also apply to new alts on the same account. |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box Urine Alliance
85
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quote:As an example, if you activated 30 days of Second Character Training while 13 days of regular account game time is left, you would have 17 days remaining of this feature paused when your account expires.
Do you think it would be possible to make a feature that would allow you to transfer that remaining dual character training time to a standard subscription? |
0mni Ca
Ball Punching Ninja Midgets Trifectas Syndicate
13
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Roajax wrote:Go the full distance.... Increase the number of toons per account to at least 9. Allow us to login multiple characters at once.
IE: If I'm paying 2 plex's per month I should be able to login 2 toons on that account. Nothing worse than trying to make the right combo of pilots + cynos work when there are ridiculous account restrictions. IE: toon1 on account#1 with cyno. toon #2 on account #2 with carrier. toon #3 on account #1 with jump freighter. See the problem? Would be a ton easier if I could just whichever 2 toons I need. Agreed, I love the idea, as there are some toons I don't need to login at the same time, but I would love to only have 1 login to deal with when I use my multiple accounts.
This is how I believe it should be: 1 Account per person 1 Plex allows you to access any 3 characters you have on your account, if you have 5 characters on your account, only 3 will be accessible, see below. Each additional Plex allows you to train 1 additional character and unlock 3 additional or existing characters currently on your account. Each additional Plex allows you to login simultaneously one more character on your account. If you have had more than 1 Plex active on the account and it expires, your training on your least skilled character will expire, and upon your next login, you will be prompted to select which characters on your account are disabled to keep you within your limit of 3 characters. If you would like to enable a 4th character on your account, you can either delete an existing character you currently have active on your account or activate a plex. There is no limit on how many Plex's you can have acitve on your account. Your account active time will be whenever the last active Plex was on your account. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
694
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
plex prices skyrocket? hope not |
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CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
216
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Anathema Matou wrote:This new feature has a UI problem. Please keep the option to activate dual training 2 steps away from activate game time, to avoid... accidents , i.e. below the "return to redeem items" option.
There is an additional modal window which will require confirmation. If not these two, then there will be another two options next to each other. We discussed this internally but hopefully the modal confirmation window is enough to prevent mistakes?
Kip Troger wrote:What happens if you have an alt that currently is dual training along side your main and you sell that alt on the character bazzarre and transfer it to another account?
Is the 30 days basically just a bank that you can use whenever, and you can use it or save it as needed, or is it constantly running as a use or lose?
The time runs like subscription time, it does not pause if you have no two characters in training.
Feel free to poke me on: Twitter |
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1753
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Quintessen wrote: Given how strongly CCP has pushed multi-boxing over the years it seems reasonable to allow for the fact that many people have two or more accounts. Being able to log-on to as many accounts as you have time paid for would be great. I know that's a very long-term issue that will require a lot of revamp, but it would be nice if it were solved.
Meh - possibly a revenue drain to CCP, though the Dual-training cost would be off-setting.
Quote:Perhaps in the mean time PLEX could get you all three accounts trained simultaneously since we're already paying a premium -- tough I imagine that would negatively impact CCP revenue. Id' think that would be worthwhile, even in terms of revenue - Basically an account would cost three times as much if you're training all three alts at once, under your suggestion. Even if you un-sub or consolodate two accounts into the main, your idea would be a 'push' for CCP, revenue-wise.
Quote:This is a holdover, but I'd still like to see real reform on account management in the future so I don't have to have quite so many hurdles in managing multiple accounts. Yes please!
Quote:p.s. Have you considered a character transfer holiday so that people who were using two or more accounts to train can move their characters to one account for a discounted price now that this feature is in place? Yes please! Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Kip Troger
Exiled Kings Enlightened Violence
14
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
I dont really understand what is so hard about having multiple accounts.
Is this feature intended for players with multiple characters on one account already who dont want to pay to transfer them to a new account?
If I want to train two characters at once, i just use two accounts because that way i can dualbox them.
This seems like it will just let people not have to pay transfer fees - which doesnt make a financial sense from CCP. |
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Kip Troger
Exiled Kings Enlightened Violence
14
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Anathema Matou wrote:This new feature has a UI problem. Please keep the option to activate dual training 2 steps away from activate game time, to avoid... accidents , i.e. below the "return to redeem items" option. There is an additional modal window which will require confirmation. If not these two, then there will be another two options next to each other. We discussed this internally but hopefully the modal confirmation window is enough to prevent mistakes? Kip Troger wrote:What happens if you have an alt that currently is dual training along side your main and you sell that alt on the character bazzarre and transfer it to another account?
Is the 30 days basically just a bank that you can use whenever, and you can use it or save it as needed, or is it constantly running as a use or lose? The time runs like subscription time, it does not pause if you have no two characters in training.
Hmmm...That is not ideal. I guess I will just have to make sure I can use all 30 days and still have to swap with my main for any time leftover. But i guess this is only a rare occurance for most... |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1753
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:45:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kip Troger wrote:I dont really understand what is so hard about having multiple accounts. Is this feature intended for players with multiple characters on one account already who dont want to pay to transfer them to a new account? If I want to train two characters at once, i just use two accounts because that way i can dualbox them. This seems like it will just let people not have to pay transfer fees - which doesnt make a financial sense from CCP. It's definately a reevnue enhancer - most people won't be using it full-time though.
Give myself as an example - I have two accounts, but there are times (like the impending Odyssey update) when there are some things I want trained across as many alts as possible - In this case, Battlecruisers. Well, I'm going to manage to get three, maybe four, of my 'toons to BC V. With this training change, I could've managed a clean sweep with ease whilst not seriously impacting my primary training plan. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Fulmen
Failed Diplomacy
0
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Posted - 2013.05.15 16:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
It's already been said but if you can't log in both accounts, then there is no point in dual training on a single account, while paying for two accounts. The only benefit I see coming from this change is for character farmers who can now effectively manage half the accounts required to run their businesses. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
6
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Fulmen wrote:It's already been said but if you can't log in both accounts, then there is no point in dual training on a single account, while paying for two accounts. The only benefit I see coming from this change is for character farmers who can now effectively manage half the accounts required to run their businesses.
There are allot of people who really don't want 15 accounts. I myself like to have 2, no more, PERIOD. It'll be a convenience for allot of people.
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Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
155
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Anathema Matou wrote:This new feature has a UI problem. Please keep the option to activate dual training 2 steps away from activate game time, to avoid... accidents , i.e. below the "return to redeem items" option. There is an additional modal window which will require confirmation. If not these two, then there will be another two options next to each other. We discussed this internally but hopefully the modal confirmation window is enough to prevent mistakes? On sort of an unrelated note to UI, could you please move the Repackage/Reprocess apart?? :)
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
8212
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
Should be interesting but I don't really see the point as it's basically the same as having two accounts?
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
694
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Kip Troger wrote:What happens if you have an alt that currently is dual training along side your main and you sell that alt on the character bazzarre and transfer it to another account?
Is the 30 days basically just a bank that you can use whenever, and you can use it or save it as needed, or is it constantly running as a use or lose? The time runs like subscription time, it does not pause if you have no two characters in training.
If you want to make this feature any difference from a second account at all, i would at least make it pause if you don't want to train the second character and save the training time for later. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
854
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
1. This seems to be only usable with plex, will i not be able to use this with the Icelandic game time cards?
2. So you're doing this, COULD YOU PLEASE ADD A SWITCH CHARACTER OPTION??? =< BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1753
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Should be interesting but I don't really see the point as it's basically the same as having two accounts? Not quite - It's like having two accounts while you're training two accounts. Other times, it's just like having one account - Or, put another way, it's like having a second account you can turn on and off more-or-less at-will.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction. Transmission Lost
473
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:19:00 -
[40] - Quote
CAN I USE TWO CLIENTS AND HAVE EACH CHARACTER LOGGED ON AT THE SAME TIME?
THANK YOU AND I AM SORRY FOR YELLING. Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
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iskflakes
447
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
0mni Ca wrote:Roajax wrote:Go the full distance.... Increase the number of toons per account to at least 9. Allow us to login multiple characters at once.
IE: If I'm paying 2 plex's per month I should be able to login 2 toons on that account. Nothing worse than trying to make the right combo of pilots + cynos work when there are ridiculous account restrictions. IE: toon1 on account#1 with cyno. toon #2 on account #2 with carrier. toon #3 on account #1 with jump freighter. See the problem? Would be a ton easier if I could just whichever 2 toons I need. Agreed, I love the idea, as there are some toons I don't need to login at the same time, but I would love to only have 1 login to deal with when I use my multiple accounts. This is how I believe it should be: 1 Account per person 1 Plex allows you to access any 3 characters you have on your account, if you have 5 characters on your account, only 3 will be accessible, see below. Each additional Plex allows you to train 1 additional character and unlock 3 additional or existing characters currently on your account. Each additional Plex allows you to login simultaneously one more character on your account. If you have had more than 1 Plex active on the account and it expires, your training on your least skilled character will expire, and upon your next login, you will be prompted to select which characters on your account are disabled to keep you within your limit of 3 characters. If you would like to enable a 4th character on your account, you can either delete an existing character you currently have active on your account or activate a plex. There is no limit on how many Plex's you can have acitve on your account. Your account active time will be whenever the last active Plex was on your account.
This would make life a lot simpler. It's ridiculous that I need to remember 12 passwords and account names, and keep track of 12 API keys, and somehow remember which alts are on which accounts, etc. There should be just a single account with each PLEX providing +1 character in training, +1 simultaneous login and +3 character slots. The only thing that's stopping me getting more accounts right now is the complexity the system already has. - |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1753
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:30:00 -
[42] - Quote
iskflakes wrote: The only thing that's stopping me getting more accounts right now is the complexity the system already has. I suspect that a lot of the awkwardness is architechural, thus built-in and not easily to resolve. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
691
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
From my point of view, there is only a small advantage to this compared to having an extra account and paying for that, so all in all :3 don't care much for this feature, but it's welcome none the less Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
59
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:31:00 -
[44] - Quote
First off, this is one of the biggest changes to overall eve philosophy since the skill queue (and I've been here since beta). Second, I probably won't be using this feature, but if I ever do, there's one thing I'd like to be able to see.
You said the time remaining would be visible from the account management screen. I'd like to see that information available in game. From any of your characters. At any time.
Last, I have a question. Can you activate that secondary training a second time so that you could have all 3 characters on your account training at the same time? (spend two PLEX, of course) I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
David Magnus
167
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:CAN I USE TWO CLIENTS AND HAVE EACH CHARACTER LOGGED ON AT THE SAME TIME?
THANK YOU AND I AM SORRY FOR YELLING.
No, this is not a replacement for having a full-fledged alt account. Also, I'm sure the technical hurdles behind that change are massive and would take a full re-thinking of the entire account and character system.
This is specifically for the few circumstances where it is really useful to have a fixed-skillpoint alt on an existing account, but you don't want to stop training on your main. If you only need a month of training on a character, this saves you a full plex in the transfer fee later. http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion |
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CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
222
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:First off, this is one of the biggest changes to overall eve philosophy since the skill queue (and I've been here since beta). Second, I probably won't be using this feature, but if I ever do, there's one thing I'd like to be able to see.
You said the time remaining would be visible from the account management screen. I'd like to see that information available in game. From any of your characters. At any time.
Last, I have a question. Can you activate that secondary training a second time so that you could have all 3 characters on your account training at the same time? (spend two PLEX, of course)
This is limited to 2 characters at the moment. We will monitor this and can make adjustments in the future. We have to monitor what impact this might have on the PLEX market, etc.
We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game. At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.
Feel free to poke me on: Twitter |
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Naomi Darson
RNA Enterprises
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Roajax wrote:Go the full distance.... Increase the number of toons per account to at least 9. Allow us to login multiple characters at once.
IE: If I'm paying 2 plex's per month I should be able to login 2 toons on that account. Nothing worse than trying to make the right combo of pilots + cynos work when there are ridiculous account restrictions. IE: toon1 on account#1 with cyno. toon #2 on account #2 with carrier. toon #3 on account #1 with jump freighter. See the problem? Would be a ton easier if I could just whichever 2 toons I need. This is a HUGE task. Really big emphasis on how difficult this is. Not comparable in scope to what we had to do for this feature.
Maybe so, but it would also be a HUGE usability gain for players with multiple accounts. I guess whether that warrants the effort will depend on how many players have multiple accounts. |
|
CCP Quant
C C P C C P Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
DmitryEKT wrote:Will we have triple training as an option too?
Max Kolonko wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQCP85FngzE
always wanted to post it for a CCP dev blog. Now I finally have a chance :)
speaking of which: why cant we use money to pay for dual training and only plex?
This is a start of an experiment so to say, if it turns out to be successful then adding triple slots or alternative payment options might become available. All depending on your feedback of course.
Roajax wrote:Go the full distance.... Increase the number of toons per account to at least 9. Allow us to login multiple characters at once.
IE: If I'm paying 2 plex's per month I should be able to login 2 toons on that account. Nothing worse than trying to make the right combo of pilots + cynos work when there are ridiculous account restrictions. IE: toon1 on account#1 with cyno. toon #2 on account #2 with carrier. toon #3 on account #1 with jump freighter. See the problem? Would be a ton easier if I could just whichever 2 toons I need.
One idea would be for users to have a single account where you would buy characters slots and pilot licenses, much like how it is in World of Tanks. Imagine all your alts under one account, one API to rule them all... But this is just me daydreaming, hopefully one day we'll get there.
|
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Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
176
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:38:00 -
[49] - Quote
That's perfect for my way of doing things, thanks! :) |
Merouk Baas
643
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Should be interesting but I don't really see the point as it's basically the same as having two accounts?
It's not the same as having two accounts.
If you have a character that has no need of training, like a CEO, but you need access to it repeatedly, it would be a huge cost to maintain a second account for that character to be able to log in as needed. So most people make the CEO a same-account alt, but then they can't train it if their corp increases past a certain size, for example. |
|
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:40:00 -
[51] - Quote
Damn you CCP!!!!
Creating useful features to separate me from my hard earned ISK/PLEX. Allocate resources to POS improvement |
iskflakes
448
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:40:00 -
[52] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:iskflakes wrote: The only thing that's stopping me getting more accounts right now is the complexity the system already has. I suspect that a lot of the awkwardness is architechural, thus built-in and not easily to resolve.
This is very probably true. The server might just explode if the same account ID was in use by multiple characters simultaneously, but that said there are always workarounds. Behind the scenes this could be implemented by splitting all EVE accounts into three single-character accounts, each with their own subscription and training time, then add a new login screen UI to enable rapidly swapping the active subscription(s) between these accounts. This would be invisible to the user, who would just click on a character and say "activate training" or "log in".
It's certainly something I would like to see CCP work on. - |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
59
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:42:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Moraguth wrote:First off, this is one of the biggest changes to overall eve philosophy since the skill queue (and I've been here since beta). Second, I probably won't be using this feature, but if I ever do, there's one thing I'd like to be able to see.
You said the time remaining would be visible from the account management screen. I'd like to see that information available in game. From any of your characters. At any time.
Last, I have a question. Can you activate that secondary training a second time so that you could have all 3 characters on your account training at the same time? (spend two PLEX, of course) This is limited to 2 characters at the moment. We will monitor this and can make adjustments in the future. We have to monitor what impact this might have on the PLEX market, etc. We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game. At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.
Funny you mention that.... (that's for leading this exactly where i wanted you to!) On the "Pilot License" section of the character sheet, all it says is "Pilot license in order".... It would be nice if it told you how long you were "certified" for. I pay my subscription a year at a time, but it would be nice to see (quickly) how long till that bill is coming due. =)
But I'm all for consistency. If you do it for one case, you should do it for both. But if not for one, then not the other too.
THANKS for the quick replies today! I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
iskflakes
448
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Quant wrote:One idea would be for users to have a single account where you would buy characters slots and pilot licenses, much like how it is in World of Tanks. Imagine all your alts under one account, one API to rule them all... But this is just me daydreaming, hopefully one day we'll get there.
Please do this! - |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1862
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game.
Why not?
CCP RubberBAND wrote: At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.
Well, that time should be shown too. Why not? And the players would not see it "all the time", just when their character sheet is open. Even then they would not see a time ticking down, just the expiration date and time. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
161
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
PLEX is fairly expensive compared to purchasing a 12-month subscription. Are there plans to allow someone to, for example, pay double the 12-month subscription cost, and thus enable dual-character training for 12 months? The same question applies for the 6-month and 3-month discounted costs. (I realize most people would rather just open a second account, and thus have 6 toons.) Fix POSes.-á Every player should want one (even if all players can't have one). |
|
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
224
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 17:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:
We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game.
Why not? CCP RubberBAND wrote: At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.
Well, that time should be shown too. Why not? And the players would not see it "all the time", just when their character sheet is open. Even then they would not see a time ticking down, just the expiration date and time.
I'll bring this up with the team again, since a few people are asking about this in the thread, but it's basically to do with verisimilitude or what things belong/fit in game and what things belong/fit in account management pages. So far with the exception of PLEX, there is little in game which references account management and that's intentional.
Showing things which are removed from the EVE universe in gameplay or narrative terms is something we have tried to avoid, but like I said we will discuss this and see if the PLEX section or character sheet is the right place to potentially show timers like this. There are a number of different views within the team itself, so that's one of the reasons we have held off on a timer of some kind.
Feedback like this is great though as it helps us know what you guys wants.
Feel free to poke me on: Twitter |
|
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 18:16:00 -
[58] - Quote
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:PLEX is fairly expensive compared to purchasing a 12-month subscription. Are there plans to allow someone to, for example, pay double the 12-month subscription cost, and thus enable dual-character training for 12 months? The same question applies for the 6-month and 3-month discounted costs. (I realize most people would rather just open a second account, and thus have 6 toons.)
This is actually a very relevant question.
Right now a subscription is $14,99. Would CCP be applicable to allowing the player to pay (lets say) $10 more to enable dual character per month?
So CCP would have the potential of making $24,99 per month per account. The people have a choice of whether buying/selling plex, etc..
|
Valterra Craven
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 18:16:00 -
[59] - Quote
I'm curious if CCP has considered the gift case at all.
Example, May 6th you gave out the gnosis and before that a bunch of other shinies.
One reason that its nice to have a separate account is that you get "two" gifts instead of one.
Based on the way you outlined this and given that plex are more expensive than a sub, I should think any account that has this feature active during a gift period should get a "double" portion so to speak. |
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
161
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 18:28:00 -
[60] - Quote
I think the long-term solution should be:
- One account per customer
- One active training queue per "subscription", "activated PLEX", etc. Even better: just have a bucket of "subscription time", which gets consumed at n rate where n is the number of active skill queues. If I have 12 game months left on my account, and have 3 training queues going, I have 4 calendar months before I run out. Treat it like a bank.
- Minimum of 3 toons per account.
- Maximum toons per account needs to be looked at: perhaps based on a flat one-time fee for toons over 3 ($5 USD would make sense, since $15 gets you one month on a new account with 3 toons).
- One client can login one character at a time.
- Unlimited number of characters from a given account can be logged in simultaneously, provided they are launched by different clients. (Perhaps some controls in the form of IP address checking to reduce the likelihood of account sharing.)
- APIs are on a by-character basis, not an account basis.
Fix POSes.-á Every player should want one (even if all players can't have one). |
|
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
854
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 18:31:00 -
[61] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:1. This seems to be only usable with plex, will i not be able to use this with the Icelandic game time cards?
2. So you're doing this, COULD YOU PLEASE ADD A SWITCH CHARACTER OPTION??? =<
Bumping my question <.< BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1862
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 18:38:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:
We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game.
Why not? CCP RubberBAND wrote: At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.
Well, that time should be shown too. Why not? And the players would not see it "all the time", just when their character sheet is open. Even then they would not see a time ticking down, just the expiration date and time. I'll bring this up with the team again, since a few people are asking about this in the thread, but it's basically to do with verisimilitude or what things belong/fit in game and what things belong/fit in account management pages. So far with the exception of PLEX, there is little in game which references account management and that's intentional. Showing things which are removed from the EVE universe in gameplay or narrative terms is something we have tried to avoid, but like I said we will discuss this and see if the PLEX section or character sheet is the right place to potentially show timers like this. There are a number of different views within the team itself, so that's one of the reasons we have held off on a timer of some kind. Feedback like this is great though as it helps us know what you guys wants. I fully understand the need for limiting things that conflict with immersion. But...PLEX. Its already all over the game. Putting on the character sheet "Pilot's license expires on DD/MM/YYYY at HH:MM:SS" would not be immersion breaking. Nor would "Secondary training license expires on..."
Also if you are interested in immersion the transaction tab in the wallet has a filter labeled "player donation". I'm a cybernetic demi-god flying around in a metal egg. Whats a "player"? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Extinction Level Event.
465
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 18:40:00 -
[63] - Quote
I really appreciated this. Many players will use this feature, and I hope that this turn up being really profitable to CCP. So you can hire more Devs and pay them better!
If you guys plan to improve this in a further level as this proves profitable
This is close enough: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=212491&find=unread
Fly Safe o/ Please read these! > New POS system > New SOV system |
Neftaran
Broken Wheel Mercantile and Trading Company Illusion of Solitude
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 18:41:00 -
[64] - Quote
Your greed sickens me. |
HybridOnslaught
New Eden Is A Mess
21
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 18:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
This is a pointless addition its only another way for eve to sneak in the pay to play or whatever its called feature.
we are paying already for an account with 3 slots 2 of which are pointless and now you expect us to pay the bones of 30 euro a month to train two toons,
do the math on that and you will soon see you can have 2 accounts running at the same price.
what you should do is Stop being greedy and let us use the 3 slots on our accounts or remove them altogether,
Pointless feature that sounds good. but is in fact pointless.
did i mention its pointless.
So CCP pull yer heads from yer asses and stop the greed machine before it Ruins eve.
|
indiana bones
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 18:56:00 -
[66] - Quote
I think this is a very positive step and tbh probably a little overdue, but bravo CCP!
I know this has been touched on above, but I'd just like to add that I think using a 30 day 'Game Time' PLEX for 30 days of alt training time it a little disproportionate.
Using case 2, the player would have the ability to use both accounts at the same time and therefore there would be an advantage to this method. Albeit, at the end of that alts training you would have to then have to brunt the cost of a char transfer.
I'm not suggesting that this feature should give the ability to log both chars on at the same time, this would have quite dramatic consequences which I won't even bother to list.
But using '30 days of game time' and only receiving 30 days of training time doesn't quite stack up for me. To incentivise this I think there should be a small bonus to the amount of training time the alt char would receive, maybe 35 to 40 days of training time. I can't see me using this feature in it's currently proposed state due to this tbh.
Being a 2003 player my mains can already do everything I need them to do, so stopping them training to train an alt isn't really a big problem (as I am currently doing actually), but if there was a 'bonus' to using a PLEX for alt training, then I may well consider it.
I can definitely see how this would be of benefit to newer players, but would they be able to afford the luxury of an entire PLEX just for training an alt?
I'm also concerned that this would have quite an impact on PLEX prices in the long term. After watching the fanfest videos and seeing how the PLEX price is being manipulated by CCP with a current stockpile from banned accounts, surely this stockpile isn't infinite. How long until this runs out and PLEX prices soar due to demand completely outstripping supply? |
David Magnus
168
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
People complaining about this either misunderstand what's going on or just think being negative makes them cool.
This isn't, and isn't intended to be, a replacement for alt-accounts.
There are many circumstances where people would like to train a character for only a month or two and that's it. Something like a PI/Industry/Research/Trade/Probing alt doesn't need to be logged in at the same time as the main character.
Right now you have three options: a) Stop training on your main to train the alt b) Train character on another account and keep that account active so you can use the character c) Train character on another account and transfer the character to your main when it's done
This gives you the option to train a character for a month or two without disrupting your main's training, and without having to PLEX an extra account forever or pay TWO PLEX to transfer the character when you are done.
This actually SAVES you PLEX in the limited circumstances where it makes sense to use.
CCP gave us an additional feature that many people requested without taking anything away from anyone else. There is literally nothing to complain about with this. http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2839
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:01:00 -
[68] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:
We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game.
Why not? CCP RubberBAND wrote: At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.
Well, that time should be shown too. Why not? And the players would not see it "all the time", just when their character sheet is open. Even then they would not see a time ticking down, just the expiration date and time. I'll bring this up with the team again, since a few people are asking about this in the thread, but it's basically to do with verisimilitude or what things belong/fit in game and what things belong/fit in account management pages. So far with the exception of PLEX, there is little in game which references account management and that's intentional. Showing things which are removed from the EVE universe in gameplay or narrative terms is something we have tried to avoid, but like I said we will discuss this and see if the PLEX section or character sheet is the right place to potentially show timers like this. There are a number of different views within the team itself, so that's one of the reasons we have held off on a timer of some kind. Feedback like this is great though as it helps us know what you guys wants. I fully understand the need for limiting things that conflict with immersion. But...PLEX. Its already all over the game. Putting on the character sheet "Pilot's license expires on DD/MM/YYYY at HH:MM:SS" would not be immersion breaking. Nor would "Secondary training license expires on..." Also if you are interested in immersion the transaction tab in the wallet has a filter labeled "player donation". I'm a cybernetic demi-god flying around in a metal egg. Whats a "player"?
Excellent points, +1.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
128
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
Riffix wrote:Meh.
I know I am in the minority on this but I think alts in this game are stupid, period.
This MMO doesn't have class/race/faction restrictions of any kind so there is no good reason to have more than one character.
All they do is reduce the need for players to work together, whether it's industry, PVE, or PVP. They also players to avoid responsibility by hiding behind things like forum alts, throw away neutral spies, and things like being a super-cap pilot no longer has to be a lifestyle choice, just an alt you log when needed.
This just makes the problem worse.
.
You are correct in the sense that there are no class/race/faction restrictions, but at one point choosingthe race you played offered an advatage in some areas that lacked in other races. That has long since been removed; however, I do nto share in your evaluation of the uses of alts. I challenge you to ask one person on this forum this question, "If you were restricted to just one character and one account...would you train that character to be a cyno pilot and basically be a throw away guy each time for the benefit of others?" I bet the majority would say, "no, I would rather train it to do something fun and useful."
The nice thing about EVE is that you ARENT restricted to certain task via class/race like in WoW but rather you can do multiple roles if your skills support them. Having an alt allows you to do the boring jobs like sitting off grid providing orca boost that no one else would do actively. Usually these alts are used in this scope; however, they can be used as scouts and such. Personally, I don't feel comfortable multi-boxing two pvp toons at the same time, but there are some who do >.<
The point being made here is that having an alt is not stupid at all for the design of the game, they are more of a supporting role then anything. When people play this game, they want to actually do stuff, not sit and be essentially a passive part of the game. Having an alt allows them to do both. Granted, there are some who have 4 accounts run at the same time, and when you get up to 5-10 accounts then yes, you are pretty much destroying the social aspect of EVE. However, there is nothing wrong with having 2 accounts to get what you need done. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1024
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:11:00 -
[70] - Quote
I approve of this service/function totally. So much so why not implement it yesterday? An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
|
SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:16:00 -
[71] - Quote
This idea of billing me again for training my toons that are already on a paid account is Rams Balls in Lactic Acid.
If you have the system muscle to even offer this, then it should be done for all toons on paid accounts.
The user can still only log in once per account so they only get to use 1 toon per account.
I could see restricting it if you could log in 2 or 3 times per account, but it does not happen.
"No Restrictions !" is my battlecry.
Skill them all on the account equally. SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1888
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:21:00 -
[72] - Quote
I'm guessing yes, but can you confirm that the 2nd character receiving training can be switched during the 30 day period? So if I activate this, can I spend 15 days dual- training Main 1 + Alt 2 and the other 15 days training Main 1 + Alt 3?
CCP RubberBAND wrote:xttz wrote:Will you use this opportunity to make single character training a bit more usable?
Let's say I want to train a very short skill (a few hours) on an alt character that isn't worth a plex. Currently we have to:
1) Log out 2) Log in the character currently training and pause it. 3) Log out again 4) Log back into the character you want to train temporarily and start the skill.
Why can't starting a skill from an alt automatically pause the other character on the same account? It's funny because we were just discussing how the technical changes implemented to allow for this feature would also allow for pausing a character you are not logged into. Not likely to make it for Odyssey but certainly something we will consider for the future. Take it a step further - how about allowing us to set multi-character skill queues, so that when my main finishes a skill the queue can switch over to training skills for the alt? Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
104
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:26:00 -
[73] - Quote
The information how much Dual Training time remains could be shown in the "Pilot License" Tab of the character info. |
Deornoth Drake
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
28
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:28:00 -
[74] - Quote
I like it!
Why? If you have a alt with a long training in mind, you might be better off with an additional account via subscription. But once that is done and you just want to use it, dual character training is a great way to update it from time to time.
Without subscription, i.e. if you would fuel the account with plex anyway, it comes down to parallel usage or not. If not you're better off with dual character training, since you may pause the training but still be able to use it and continue training later on.
Thumbs up! I'm looking forward to it! |
Aiko Intaki
Lodizal Shield Tek Lodizal Conglomerate
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:34:00 -
[75] - Quote
Not a fan of this for the following reason:
- CCP begins with an arbitrary limit of 1 character training per account. - Players get multiple accounts to circumvent the limitation. - CCP sees this and offers to remove the arbitrary limit, for a price.
This, in my opinion, is a dark shade of monetization. It isn't as bone-headed as the monocle, but it's a ****** thing to do.
If there is no longer any technical justification or community/market concerns supporting the 1 character per account training limit, simply remove it. Don't nickel and dime us to get around an arbitrary limit you've imposed on us. |
Kor'el Izia
50
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:40:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:I'll bring this up with the team again, since a few people are asking about this in the thread, but it's basically to do with verisimilitude or what things belong/fit in game and what things belong/fit in account management pages. So far with the exception of PLEX, there is little in game which references account management and that's intentional. Showing things which are removed from the EVE universe in gameplay or narrative terms is something we have tried to avoid, but like I said we will discuss this and see if the PLEX section or character sheet is the right place to potentially show timers like this. There are a number of different views within the team itself, so that's one of the reasons we have held off on a timer of some kind. Feedback like this is great though as it helps us know what you guys wants.
If you want verisimilitude/realism you'll add expiration date to the "Character Sheet->Pilot License" window, IRL I can see the expiration date on my drivers license and bank card, surely they've figured out to put a date on a thing in the future? |
David Magnus
169
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
Aiko Intaki wrote:Not a fan of this for the following reason:
- CCP begins with an arbitrary limit of 1 character training per account. - Players get multiple accounts to circumvent the limitation. - CCP sees this and offers to remove the arbitrary limit, for a price.
This, in my opinion, is a dark shade of monetization. It isn't as bone-headed as the monocle, but it's a ****** thing to do.
If there is no longer any technical justification or community/market concerns supporting the 1 character per account training limit, simply remove it. Don't nickel and dime us to get around an arbitrary limit you've imposed on us.
I doubt it was ever an arbitrary technical limitation. It a massive game design issue - suddenly allowing 3x more characters to be training all at once has a lot of long-term unforeseen consequences I would bet. http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion |
Deornoth Drake
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
28
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
Aiko Intaki wrote:Not a fan of this for the following reason:
- CCP begins with an arbitrary limit of 1 character training per account. - Players get multiple accounts to circumvent the limitation. - CCP sees this and offers to remove the arbitrary limit, for a price.
This, in my opinion, is a dark shade of monetization. It isn't as bone-headed as the monocle, but it's a ****** thing to do.
If there is no longer any technical justification or community/market concerns supporting the 1 character per account training limit, simply remove it. Don't nickel and dime us to get around an arbitrary limit you've imposed on us.
I have to confess that it would be very welcome that way as well.
No matter what the guys at CCP need to get paid. Just dropping the limit could cut the income of CCP by a not so small percentage. Maybe it's the first step towards the Triple-Character-Training without additional payment. |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
192
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 19:52:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:I'll bring this up with the team again, since a few people are asking about this in the thread, but it's basically to do with verisimilitude or what things belong/fit in game and what things belong/fit in account management pages. So far with the exception of PLEX, there is little in game which references account management and that's intentional.
Showing things which are removed from the EVE universe in gameplay or narrative terms is something we have tried to avoid, but like I said we will discuss this and see if the PLEX section or character sheet is the right place to potentially show timers like this. There are a number of different views within the team itself, so that's one of the reasons we have held off on a timer of some kind.
Feedback like this is great though as it helps us know what you guys wants.
Also speaking up for having the remaining time shown in the Pilot License section of the Character Sheet window. I was actually surprised that it wasn't there after returning from a break. It doesn't have to be such a break in immersion, as there are multiple ways to express this (as another poster points out).
There are times when gameplay forces unusual situations that break with what you might expect from the "simulation", so it's equally legitimate to say that there could be times when Account Management reasons force a break from the immersion as a tradeoff for convenience to the users.
Also, combining multiple accounts into one super-account would be absolutely heavenly. On the Account Services page, you could queue up orders into one "Shopping Cart", or whatever, and make one single payment at the end. |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
297
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 20:00:00 -
[80] - Quote
Anathema Matou wrote:This new feature has a UI problem. Please keep the option to activate dual training 2 steps away from activate game time, to avoid... accidents , i.e. below the "return to redeem items" option. This was the first thing I thought of when I saw the screenshot.
CCP Customer service, prepare for the inevitable. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
|
Laendra
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 20:00:00 -
[81] - Quote
xttz wrote:Will you use this opportunity to make single character training a bit more usable?
Let's say I want to train a very short skill (a few hours) on an alt character that isn't worth a plex. Currently we have to:
1) Log out 2) Log in the character currently training and pause it. 3) Log out again 4) Log back into the character you want to train temporarily and start the skill.
Why can't starting a skill from an alt automatically pause the other character on the same account?
This, to be honest. Dual Training is also a great feature, but this would be a tremendous usability improvement
Also, logging off to character selection, or Switch Characters would be another great usability improvement.
Is PLEX going to be the only option, or do we have a cash option too?
|
Takumiro
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 20:10:00 -
[82] - Quote
This feature should be free. |
Draconus Lofwyr
EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis
46
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 20:15:00 -
[83] - Quote
While this is a good idea, it still falls short of a "fair deal".
1 plex = 1 30 day subscription =/ 30 days of training time
I have 2 plex, a month, I can either have 2 accounts with 1 character on each training, and able to log both accounts in at the same time or i can have 1 account with 2 characters with both characters training but only able to log in one at a time. something needs to compensate for that loss of value, or I will not use it and keep going how i am now.
solution 1
1 plex on an existing payed account activates secondary training for only 2 characters 45 days
changing the subscription type to a dual training subscription for 1.5x the current price (ie. current $15, dual training $22) for the normal 30 days
Solution 2
1 plex on an existing payed account activates secondary training for 3 characters on the account for 30 days
changing the subscription type to multi training subscription for 2x the current price for the normal 30 days.
I would also like to mention the cost disparity of transferring a character between accounts, its 2 plex or $20 via paypal or credit card, well, there's a no brainer.
I am curious to see how the api pulls will be changed to cover more than one character training at a time.
|
Aiko Intaki
Lodizal Shield Tek Lodizal Conglomerate
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 20:21:00 -
[84] - Quote
David Magnus wrote:Aiko Intaki wrote:Not a fan of this for the following reason:
- CCP begins with an arbitrary limit of 1 character training per account. - Players get multiple accounts to circumvent the limitation. - CCP sees this and offers to remove the arbitrary limit, for a price.
This, in my opinion, is a dark shade of monetization. It isn't as bone-headed as the monocle, but it's a ****** thing to do.
If there is no longer any technical justification or community/market concerns supporting the 1 character per account training limit, simply remove it. Don't nickel and dime us to get around an arbitrary limit you've imposed on us. I doubt it was ever an arbitrary technical limitation. It a massive game design issue - suddenly allowing 3x more characters to be training all at once has a lot of long-term unforeseen consequences I would bet. I would agree, if it weren't for the introduction of second character training on a single account for a fee. Single training is fine and dandy due to any number of justifications, but once you remove that limitation by spending PLEX in game those justifications fall to the wayside and the limitation becomes arbitrary. It's little different than other MMOs which include steep XP curves, then sell bonus XP potions/implants in their online stores.
This feature should be free, or the limitation should remain in place. |
Damion Rayne
Rules of Acquisition Acquisition Of Empire
148
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 20:28:00 -
[85] - Quote
Now this is straight up greed.
There has never been a valid reason posted anywhere, as to why more than one character can't be training skills at the same time on the same account. This is pure greed, pure money grubbing (someone has to buy the plex) and it's simply disgusting. There has never been any real, proven, valid, technical limitation to stop more than one character training on an account and this *new* "Feature" proves just that. They can do it, they just didn't want to do until they came up with a reason to make us pay for it. ROA |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
779
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 20:38:00 -
[86] - Quote
On one hand it is some improvement, on the other autopause on currently training toon when we start another toon's queue would be magnitude better. I don't even dare dreaming about toon selection screen instead of logout/login hassle. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
David Magnus
170
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 20:40:00 -
[87] - Quote
Aiko Intaki wrote:David Magnus wrote:Aiko Intaki wrote:Not a fan of this for the following reason:
- CCP begins with an arbitrary limit of 1 character training per account. - Players get multiple accounts to circumvent the limitation. - CCP sees this and offers to remove the arbitrary limit, for a price.
This, in my opinion, is a dark shade of monetization. It isn't as bone-headed as the monocle, but it's a ****** thing to do.
If there is no longer any technical justification or community/market concerns supporting the 1 character per account training limit, simply remove it. Don't nickel and dime us to get around an arbitrary limit you've imposed on us. I doubt it was ever an arbitrary technical limitation. It a massive game design issue - suddenly allowing 3x more characters to be training all at once has a lot of long-term unforeseen consequences I would bet. I would agree, if it weren't for the introduction of second character training on a single account for a fee. Single training is fine and dandy due to any number of justifications, but once you remove that limitation by spending PLEX in game those justifications fall to the wayside and the limitation becomes arbitrary. It's little different than other MMOs which include steep XP curves, then sell bonus XP potions/implants in their online stores. This feature should be free, or the limitation should remain in place.
I understand where you are coming from, and your point makes some sense, but I think it's more of a game design decision. EVE has always been 1 PLEX = 1 Character training, and this isn't changing. The only thing that's changing is what account that character happens to be on, and the fact that there is now more choice about how you train individual characters is great! http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion |
Anathema Matou
Moonmaiden Ltd.
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 20:40:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Anathema Matou wrote:This new feature has a UI problem. Please keep the option to activate dual training 2 steps away from activate game time, to avoid... accidents , i.e. below the "return to redeem items" option. There is an additional modal window which will require confirmation. If not these two, then there will be another two options next to each other. We discussed this internally but hopefully the modal confirmation window is enough to prevent mistakes?
As also mentioned by others: we already have the blatant Repackage/Reprocess UI fail. It would be very much appreciated if that mistake were not repeated unnecessarily. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 20:54:00 -
[89] - Quote
For those saying "is it greed"... Yes it is greed.
Its smart too.
If they want to come up with some charging mechanism for it, fine.
I do think that there should be a "paid" option for it in addition to a plex option. The main account costs 14.99 a month, a plex costs rougly $20.00 (legally). The alt really should not cost more than the main on the same account.
If its 14.99 a month, throw the people who would rather pay a bone by giving a $10 a month option for dual training, so it would cost a person about $24.99 a month to dualtrain a account, not 34.99 a month .
(That's $35 dollars a month to play eve with dual training on a account that you can only log 1 character in at a time (the $14.99 + the $20.00 for the plex itself).
That is over DOUBLE what every other game charges for subscription of 1 account, and all those games went fremium.
By doing the $10 option, you would get more people who would rather pay money to you to dual train the character, rather than using ingame isk to buy plex, or even worse, buying isk off RMT to get plex to dual train. The pure $ option would cause allot of people to consider just making a dedicated effort to just pay the cash rather than plex the account.
And to those who argue cash is stupid, if you had intentions of doing dual skill through plex, most likely, it'd be buying plex via Isk anyway, or going through RMT because the numbers are "Favorable".
Just want to get more cash in your wallets CCP (and preferably keep some in mine :-/)
Here is my specific reasoning. 2 accounts is 30 dollars a month. I can validate the cost realistically.
$70 a month though for 2 accounts with dual training? That is more than my Gym Membership, More than my cable bill, more than my phone bill, internet bill, that's more than I pay for Gas at the pump to fill my car up. My grocieries are cheaper than $70 dollars. Heck a damn date's cheaper than my videogame bill. My headset costs less than $70 dollars. And we "or me specifically" would have to pay the subscription fee $14.99, PLUS to dual train an account... of an alt, THAT I CANNOT LOG IN AT THE SAME TIME, costs me 25% MORE than my account itself (or 50% if you have a year subscription). That is more than my Power Bill.
14.99 a month. I can validate that. X2 for 2 accounts that I use simultaneously.. ok I can validate that.
$30 a month for a great game.. Sure. Not a problem.
$70 a month for that same game to enable a "30 day feature", is LUDICROUS!!!! |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1745
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 21:13:00 -
[90] - Quote
cool stuff. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
|
|
CCP Quant
C C P C C P Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 21:28:00 -
[91] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:1. This seems to be only usable with plex, will i not be able to use this with the Icelandic game time cards?
2. So you're doing this, COULD YOU PLEASE ADD A SWITCH CHARACTER OPTION??? =< Bumping my question <.<
1. As far as i know you can turn the game time cards into PLEX, hence you can so to speak use them for this
2. Yes this annoys a lot of us doesn't it :) some day... some day
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:PLEX is fairly expensive compared to purchasing a 12-month subscription. Are there plans to allow someone to, for example, pay double the 12-month subscription cost, and thus enable dual-character training for 12 months? The same question applies for the 6-month and 3-month discounted costs. (I realize most people would rather just open a second account, and thus have 6 toons.)
That might be an option in the future if this works out fine. We decided to start with this and see where it takes us, but to be clear there are no immediate plans on going further with this.
Alx Warlord wrote:
The next big step would be allowing to merge all counts, with one Api, one login... I thing we all share this dream!
Fly Safe o/
I couldn't agree more
And finally, to the few (some obvious trolls ) complaining about CCP being greedy with this feature:
We are not removing or replacing existing methods. Of course there are scenarios where it would be cheaper to sign up for a new account but then by all means take the cheapest path, we are simply giving you, our beloved users, an alternate way of training alts. |
|
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
931
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 21:36:00 -
[92] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Should be interesting but I don't really see the point as it's basically the same as having two accounts? I first thought that too but I can train up say a PVP alt to fly T1 frigs and cruisers to a level I like then stop training it. However, since I still play my main I still have the PVP alt to screw around with that isn't completely gimped....all while continue training on my alt.
One issue I have is the industry I do with my alts. Just the other day I wanted to switch what I was making, which wasn't very profitable anymore, to something else and he didn't have the level 3 science skill I needed. Had to pause, then train...switch back. Bleh...this will make it much easier.
Only question I have though is, is there a limit? Can you theoretically pay two plex and have two characters training forever as long as you pay the plex? Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 21:45:00 -
[93] - Quote
Aiko Intaki wrote:Not a fan of this for the following reason:
- CCP begins with an arbitrary limit of 1 character training per account. - Players get multiple accounts to circumvent the limitation. - CCP sees this and offers to remove the arbitrary limit, for a price.
This, in my opinion, is a dark shade of monetization. It isn't as bone-headed as the monocle, but it's a ****** thing to do.
If there is no longer any technical justification or community/market concerns supporting the 1 character per account training limit, simply remove it. Don't nickel and dime us to get around an arbitrary limit you've imposed on us.
Yeah , like i said , FREEDOM ! SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 21:46:00 -
[94] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:Now this is straight up greed.
There has never been a valid reason posted anywhere, as to why more than one character can't be training skills at the same time on the same account. This is pure greed, pure money grubbing (someone has to buy the plex) and it's simply disgusting. There has never been any real, proven, valid, technical limitation to stop more than one character training on an account and this *new* "Feature" proves just that. They can do it, they just didn't want to do until they came up with a reason to make us pay for it.
FREEDOM ! SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Extinction Level Event.
466
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 21:47:00 -
[95] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:Now this is straight up greed.
There has never been a valid reason posted anywhere, as to why more than one character can't be training skills at the same time on the same account. This is pure greed, pure money grubbing (someone has to buy the plex) and it's simply disgusting. There has never been any real, proven, valid, technical limitation to stop more than one character training on an account and this *new* "Feature" proves just that. They can do it, they just didn't want to do until they came up with a reason to make us pay for it.
So, you really want to play a game, so awesome as eve is, where Devs work hard to make it better every day and is complaining about paying them for their hard work? You want them working for free as slaves? This is what I call disgusting.
The reason things are the way they are is Balance: Skill points are Time + Money. If you give training for free you just ruin the value of the product (EVE Online). In other words, having a good character becomes meaningless if everyone can get 2/3 of them for free.
And if you put your toughs strait, many players that want to get some alts, without stopping the main character training have a new option other then paying a new account, an then paying to merge the accounts when he is satisfied with it. this saves them some money. It is a good new option and will help these players allot. And this will also sounds fair to players that always wanted an alt but had no courage to do it.
This is a Win/Win Situation, this is good for CCP that sell more their product, and is good for players that want to buy it. If it starts to not give profit CCP have all rights to remove it. But I bet that the demand for this service will outcome the drop in the price of making an alt in the old way.
Fly Safe o/ Please read these! > New POS system > New SOV system |
SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 21:48:00 -
[96] - Quote
Aiko Intaki wrote:David Magnus wrote:Aiko Intaki wrote:Not a fan of this for the following reason:
- CCP begins with an arbitrary limit of 1 character training per account. - Players get multiple accounts to circumvent the limitation. - CCP sees this and offers to remove the arbitrary limit, for a price.
This, in my opinion, is a dark shade of monetization. It isn't as bone-headed as the monocle, but it's a ****** thing to do.
If there is no longer any technical justification or community/market concerns supporting the 1 character per account training limit, simply remove it. Don't nickel and dime us to get around an arbitrary limit you've imposed on us. I doubt it was ever an arbitrary technical limitation. It a massive game design issue - suddenly allowing 3x more characters to be training all at once has a lot of long-term unforeseen consequences I would bet. I would agree, if it weren't for the introduction of second character training on a single account for a fee. Single training is fine and dandy due to any number of justifications, but once you remove that limitation by spending PLEX in game those justifications fall to the wayside and the limitation becomes arbitrary. It's little different than other MMOs which include steep XP curves, then sell bonus XP potions/implants in their online stores. This feature should be free, or the limitation should remain in place.
FREEDOM ! SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
Anathema Matou
Moonmaiden Ltd.
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Anathema Matou wrote:This new feature has a UI problem. Please keep the option to activate dual training 2 steps away from activate game time, to avoid... accidents , i.e. below the "return to redeem items" option. There is an additional modal window which will require confirmation. If not these two, then there will be another two options next to each other. We discussed this internally but hopefully the modal confirmation window is enough to prevent mistakes?
Actually, to elaborate why this is dangerous and, imho, insufficient to prevent mistakes: the activate-game-time also has a dialog box (even two, one for activating and one for the "please wait between consecutive activations"). People get used to quickly clicking OKAY on those. So having another option with a model dialog is not very safe. |
SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:07:00 -
[98] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:Damion Rayne wrote:Now this is straight up greed.
There has never been a valid reason posted anywhere, as to why more than one character can't be training skills at the same time on the same account. This is pure greed, pure money grubbing (someone has to buy the plex) and it's simply disgusting. There has never been any real, proven, valid, technical limitation to stop more than one character training on an account and this *new* "Feature" proves just that. They can do it, they just didn't want to do until they came up with a reason to make us pay for it. So, you really want to play a game, so awesome as eve is, where Devs work hard to make it better every day and is complaining about paying them for their hard work? You want them working for free as slaves? This is what I call disgusting. The reason things are the way they are is Balance: Skill points are Time + Money. If you give training for free you just ruin the value of the product (EVE Online). In other words, having a good character becomes meaningless if everyone can get 2/3 of them for free. And if you put your toughs strait, many players that want to get some alts, without stopping the main character training have a new option other then paying a new account, an then paying to merge the accounts when he is satisfied with it. this saves them some money. It is a good new option and will help these players allot. And this will also sounds fair to players that always wanted an alt but had no courage to do it. This is a Win/Win Situation, this is good for CCP that sell more their product, and is good for players that want to buy it. If it starts to not give profit CCP have all rights to remove it. But I bet that the demand for this service will outcome the drop in the price of making an alt in the old way. Fly Safe o/
I've read enough. To say that your prose is well put together is true, to say that you have a valid point, no so true. I pay for the account per year, because I work for a living. Why should I pay again for a feature that should already be built in? Slaves, really? Grow up , I'm going to guess that PLEX sales in Eve this week alone are more than you have made in your last year of wages. ( probably for me as well ) So please do not attempt to extract tears for the DEVS.
If they are going to do this , you do it completely and without punishing the collective.
Another possibility , Alliances that have amassed PLEX will now have an advantage to increase their numbers by enabling their current members to skill and stage an alt in several places. Let's see , 3 skilled toons , 5 clones = 15 locations to be posted as required by the alliance. That's a serious tactical and possible strategic gain there.
SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:29:00 -
[99] - Quote
CCP Doubled the price of a account and nobody is even twitching. (they actually increased it by over 125%).
Surprisingly come a few years ago when they planned all of this Pay to Play, the Eve Universe Rioted. |
Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention Middle of Nowhere
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:36:00 -
[100] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:
We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game.
Why not? CCP RubberBAND wrote: At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.
Well, that time should be shown too. Why not? And the players would not see it "all the time", just when their character sheet is open. Even then they would not see a time ticking down, just the expiration date and time. I'll bring this up with the team again, since a few people are asking about this in the thread, but it's basically to do with verisimilitude or what things belong/fit in game and what things belong/fit in account management pages. So far with the exception of PLEX, there is little in game which references account management and that's intentional. Showing things which are removed from the EVE universe in gameplay or narrative terms is something we have tried to avoid, but like I said we will discuss this and see if the PLEX section or character sheet is the right place to potentially show timers like this. There are a number of different views within the team itself, so that's one of the reasons we have held off on a timer of some kind. Feedback like this is great though as it helps us know what you guys wants.
I agree, but we have Pilot License, and PLEX to extend, so lore wont hurt with a Pilot license expire date in the Character sheet/Pilot License menu. Although the description of PLEX don fit perfectly into the EVE universe too: This item extends your game time by 30 days when activated. So with a better descreption i could fit into the EVE universe. At least it could be on the character selection screen after login. |
|
JediRobin
Globaltech Industries Yulai Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:37:00 -
[101] - Quote
Ok this sounds good but can we do the following.....
We have a paid account with say 3 toons. 1 is the main....with the main account training as we do now. Alt 2 paused training Alt 3 paused training
Will this new feature of 1 plex allow training alt 2 for 1/2 month then pause alt 2, and continue training alt 3 for the other 1/2 month..?????
If not
The work around would be to plex train our main alt for 30days, and use our main account training to train alt 2 for 1/2 month and alt 3 for 1/2 month then when plex month is finished on alt 1 we can then use account training back on alt 1.
Regards
JEDI
|
Nessy Bruemel
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:52:00 -
[102] - Quote
I like this option to train 2 Chars. on one Account very much, I'm sure i will use it on my Accounts next time. But one Question I have. When I get the possibility do skill my Alt account. I will do it all the time. What because you may not give us a possibility to rent an Account-abo, where this option is fix included for the complete time?
Sorry for my English I'm German. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
855
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:56:00 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Quant wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:1. This seems to be only usable with plex, will i not be able to use this with the Icelandic game time cards?
2. So you're doing this, COULD YOU PLEASE ADD A SWITCH CHARACTER OPTION??? =< Bumping my question <.< 1. As far as i know you can turn the game time cards into PLEX, hence you can so to speak use them for this 2. Yes this annoys a lot of us doesn't it :) some day... some day
You can't convert the icelandic GTC's to plex...
BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
|
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CCP Quant
C C P C C P Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:56:00 -
[104] - Quote
JediRobin wrote: Will this new feature of 1 plex allow training alt 2 for 1/2 month then pause alt 2, and continue training alt 3 for the other 1/2 month..?????
Yes |
|
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Extinction Level Event.
467
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 23:03:00 -
[105] - Quote
SunTsu Rae wrote: I've read enough. To say that your prose is well put together is true, to say that you have a valid point, no so true. I pay for the account per year, because I work for a living. Why should I pay again for a feature that should already be built in? Slaves, really? Grow up , I'm going to guess that PLEX sales in Eve this week alone are more than you have made in your last year of wages. ( probably for me as well ) So please do not attempt to extract tears for the DEVS.
If they are going to do this , you do it completely and without punishing the collective.
Another possibility , Alliances that have amassed PLEX will now have an advantage to increase their numbers by enabling their current members to skill and stage an alt in several places. Let's see , 3 skilled toons , 5 clones = 15 locations to be posted as required by the alliance. That's a serious tactical and possible strategic gain there.
Thx,
But this is not a valid counter argument.
You pay the account per year, if you want a second char/account training before this feature you would have to pay a second account anyway. This feature is not adding anything new, it is offering the same old thing with a new shiny. And if CCP had made it for free, it would depreciate the game value, as the only thing that have real value in the game is the SP that is made of Subscription Time and Money. And the "Dual Character Training" preserves it.
Alliances that had amassed PLEX already had the possibilities to found Alt accounts for its members.... and these members could pay to merge the char into the main account.... this was not a huge game change... But indeed it was an great market move by increasing the Accessibility of alts to the costumers.
So I got to say that this only benefits the collective... Do you have any other thing to point?
Please read these! > New POS system > New SOV system |
Emrys Ap'Morgravaine
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 23:36:00 -
[106] - Quote
Kip Troger wrote:I dont really understand what is so hard about having multiple accounts. Is this feature intended for players with multiple characters on one account already who dont want to pay to transfer them to a new account? If I want to train two characters at once, i just use two accounts because that way i can dualbox them. This seems like it will just let people not have to pay transfer fees - which doesnt make a financial sense from CCP.
I think its more aimed for those people who want to train something short on an alt, but who have perhaps not done so due to the extra cost of having another account and incurring the extra cost in moving the alt to and back from aforementioned account.
Especially those people who only have 1 account full stop.
So if anything, its more likely to bring in some extra revenue for CCP, or at the very least drive the cost of plexes a bit higher than it already is. |
JediRobin
Globaltech Industries Yulai Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 23:50:00 -
[107] - Quote
CCP Quant wrote:JediRobin wrote: Will this new feature of 1 plex allow training alt 2 for 1/2 month then pause alt 2, and continue training alt 3 for the other 1/2 month..?????
Yes
Now I will love this feature.
Regards
JEDI
|
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
873
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 01:02:00 -
[108] - Quote
Shut up and take my money
And by money I mean money, not plex, mainly because :effort:
Also triple training and the one account to rule them all thingie We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Banner was used for this Post |
Brante Sletkia
Infinite Improbability Inc Unclaimed.
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 01:06:00 -
[109] - Quote
Roajax wrote:Go the full distance.... Increase the number of toons per account to at least 9. Allow us to login multiple characters at once.
IE: If I'm paying 2 plex's per month I should be able to login 2 toons on that account. Nothing worse than trying to make the right combo of pilots + cynos work when there are ridiculous account restrictions. IE: toon1 on account#1 with cyno. toon #2 on account #2 with carrier. toon #3 on account #1 with jump freighter. See the problem? Would be a ton easier if I could just whichever 2 toons I need. Bump, this is totally true why go halfway? A plex/or sub for a month just for training seems a bit steep for a character I cannot play at the same time...either make the other char playable, or go the full distance and allow training on all 3 chars at once. I would pay for 3 char training for 2 subs, but 2 char for 2 subs...while this is a nice feature, and I am looking forward to it...it should be playable or all trainable for that price. |
Verbz
ANZAC ALLIANCE Unclaimed.
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 01:47:00 -
[110] - Quote
This is a tax for stupid people, it would be cheaper to start a new account and train that way lol. |
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Emrys Ap'Morgravaine
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 01:54:00 -
[111] - Quote
Verbz wrote:This is a tax for stupid people, it would be cheaper to start a new account and train that way lol.
Not really, what if an alt only needs a 2 week skill trained? having a second account means also keeping it subbed for the character in question to be available whenever needed, not -everyone- wants to have multiple (or even a second) account. |
Dex Tera
DIVERGENT PROXY
92
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 02:00:00 -
[112] - Quote
what i would like firstly i want plex timers i want to know how long i have left on my plex and i want to see it on my characters sheet i also want to know how much training time i have left on my second plex
secondly if i apply a second plex to my account i want to be able to load a secondary client and FLY with that toon as well as my main and this is a must i think if ccp wants this to function to be used often
also i want to be able to switch to a toon on my account without having to close the client and starting a new client when this happens i will give you more of my money
also i think that being able to only train a second toon that i can't fly at the same time as my main for the same price is a waste and pointless allow us to fly both or let us train toon slot 2 and 3 for that secondary plex plz
thanks for reading and considering it CCP |
Dex Tera
DIVERGENT PROXY
92
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 02:16:00 -
[113] - Quote
i like the idea of having one account with many toons that i can login too based on how many plexes i have applied on that account i want on account with say X amount of toon slots but being able to fly with whatever toon has an active plex and so i could have say 8 toons on one account but i have 3 with active plexes on them so that i can actually fly all 3 of them at the same time and if say i want ed to just train a toon and not be able to fly it while my mains are online then i could use an arm token for that say half of a plex for 30 days of training so i could get 60 days of training for one plex on an inactive toon
or set it up so that if i have 9 toons on my account i can apply 3 plex to that account and fly any 3 at time but be able to train just 3 at a time |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5092
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 02:54:00 -
[114] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Should be interesting but I don't really see the point as it's basically the same as having two accounts? You know, there's a lot of people I expect this from, but not you. You're smarter than this. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
James Cobb
Mabnen Mining Salvage
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 03:57:00 -
[115] - Quote
Nice Idea, however, I must take a pass to this. Until such time as I am able to handle this feature better. We shall see what the future holds, and then go from there. at the moment, I can only afford three characters (yea, I know, mine the ore and save up fro plex, i get that), but right now, I only want to do three for the time being. Nice idea. kudos on a great idea. |
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bright Side of Death
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 04:22:00 -
[116] - Quote
We know that we dont need anything that break balance. (like gold shells)
My idea: how about new skills for aurum? Skills dont disrupt balance because they should be trained. |
Nicen Jehr
Swarm Federation
197
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 05:37:00 -
[117] - Quote
Definitely show time remaining till account expiry somewhere ingame, probably character sheet! Not EVERYONE uses Evemon.
And do these improvments mean you're closer to automating the many clicks it takes to pause/restart the training queue when jump cloning / plugging implants? Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á| My Little Things posts |
Keith F
United ALT Forces United Tech Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 05:53:00 -
[118] - Quote
Nice feature, but how about for small fee(30 days becomes 28)maybe, allow us to SPLIT the plex into 4X7day training-plexs, or 7x 4 day training plexs, Then we can store and apply as applicable, or maybe even sell/trade. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
8245
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 06:35:00 -
[119] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Chribba wrote:Should be interesting but I don't really see the point as it's basically the same as having two accounts? You know, there's a lot of people I expect this from, but not you. You're smarter than this. I don't think it's a bad thing, and there's views that have indeed made me go ahh from the way I play the game that I didn't think about before when people show their support for dual training.
But I realize that is because the way I viewed it so I'm glad I got to get your views since some of them are nothing I ever thought about
Although it would make it maybe a bit easier to not having to log on so many different accounts... if only there was a way to log off to character select...
Thank you!
/c
|
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Styledatol
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 06:47:00 -
[120] - Quote
Seems silly to me, paying plex for a toon that you can't have logged on at the same time as your mains. Although I understand CCPs need to prosper as a business and increase revenue, I don't see this type of service being cost effective to the players vs. starting a new account/pausing training on existing one.
Reasons being: If I want a PI/cyno/hauler/scanning alt, I can get one the old way, since my main's training is so far down the line, a month or two without training won't handicap me: Which is the case for many of my alliance mates and other wh residents who need multiple alts. Not to mention focused accounts (haulers/miners/scanners/etc.) who don't really need lots of SP to be effective, and don't miss out on a paused training queue. If I want a substantial toon, with decent skills, that can be used for more than cynoing/scanning I'll just get another account, since having said toon is better when you can have it and your other accounts logged on at the same time. |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7863
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 07:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
Verbz wrote:This is a tax for stupid people, it would be cheaper to start a new account and train that way lol.
No, it's really not. There are cases where you want to train two characters but don't have a need to have them logged in concurrently.
In the past, if you wanted to train an alt for PI you had two choices: pause training on your main long enough to train another character or create a second account for your PI characters. That's a second account that you'd have to keep current. If you no longer wanted to pay for that second account, you'd have to pay 2 PLEX per character to transfer them to your main account.
Since it's a PI alt, you don't really need to log it in at the same time as your main, so there's no point to having it on a second account if you can have it on your main account. You now have a third choice: use a PLEX to train extra characters on your account without subbing a new one. It's more cost effective, and in some cases, preferable to a second account. mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9411
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 08:13:00 -
[122] - Quote
Just in case anyone was worried:
(1) Dual training isn't madatory
(2) It's not replacing multi-accounting, it's an "as well as", not an "instead of"
(3) It's useful for those who will use it. If you're not one of those people, then don't use it.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bright Side of Death
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 08:56:00 -
[123] - Quote
Today i can get SP via selling PLEX and buying character. But i get a lot of effort to do it and also i cant switch nickname of char.
How about direct conversion PLEX to SP? Really no diffirence with char trading but more useful. |
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Yulai Federation
96
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 09:04:00 -
[124] - Quote
xttz wrote:Will you use this opportunity to make single character training a bit more usable?
Let's say I want to train a very short skill (a few hours) on an alt character that isn't worth a plex. Currently we have to:
1) Log out 2) Log in the character currently training and pause it. 3) Log out again 4) Log back into the character you want to train temporarily and start the skill.
Why can't starting a skill from an alt automatically pause the other character on the same account?
It's funny because we were just discussing how the technical changes implemented to allow for this feature would also allow for pausing a character you are not logged into. Not likely to make it for Odyssey but certainly something we will consider for the future.[/quote]
What about making the training queue account-wide? So we could do queue skills from different characters in the queue, and switching actively trained characters would be automated, and we wouldn't have to relog every time we wanted to switch between toons training. I know, the dualtraining system makes this fairly complex, but that'd still be the most useful solution for the relogging issue, imho. |
pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
1189
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 09:12:00 -
[125] - Quote
give CCP a endorsement
Of course you will have people complaining that it isn't free and claiming this is another example of CCP dorcing microtransactions onto the players who cares i like the idea
Of course i presume you can still use the old way of training your alt I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 10:21:00 -
[126] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Just in case anyone was worried:
(1) Dual training isn't madatory
(2) It's not replacing multi-accounting, it's an "as well as", not an "instead of"
(3) It's useful for those who will use it. If you're not one of those people, then don't use it.
We already know all of the above . . . .
The point being , and I believe I have posted in my past 4 years somewhere about this , the player should not be taxed again for the option of training all toons on the account. PERIOD.
I pay for this account I deserve the full unencumbered use of it.
AGAIN you can only use 1 toon at a time, therefore it allows a player/user to explore other options in the game.
In my case I would have 6 toons with 4 years, or roughly 70M+ sp per toon. Lots of options. Why is restricting us and asking for more money for a option that should be there already a good thing ?
You might want to consider a run for the US Congress, they use the same logic as well. SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 10:27:00 -
[127] - Quote
45 days please, to cover the inability to dualbox. |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
163
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 10:47:00 -
[128] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:I'll bring this up with the team again, since a few people are asking about this in the thread, but it's basically to do with verisimilitude or what things belong/fit in game and what things belong/fit in account management pages. So far with the exception of PLEX, there is little in game which references account management and that's intentional.
Showing things which are removed from the EVE universe in gameplay or narrative terms is something we have tried to avoid, but like I said we will discuss this and see if the PLEX section or character sheet is the right place to potentially show timers like this. There are a number of different views within the team itself, so that's one of the reasons we have held off on a timer of some kind.
Feedback like this is great though as it helps us know what you guys wants.
Please, bring it up and try to make a convincing case.
Personally I see myself using this option very rarely and when I do it i don't want to waste any of the time but use the feature to full effect.
Also please note that people who use a credit card for paying their game time _very_ seldom have a reason to go to the account page. Over all the close to 10 years I've played I don't think I've been there more than maybe a dozen times, if even that.
You could perhaps make another tab into the character sheet for these kind of timers. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Tess La'Coil
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
43
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 11:04:00 -
[129] - Quote
SunTsu Rae wrote:[quote=Malcanis]Just in case anyone was worried: The point being , and I believe I have posted in my past 4 years somewhere about this , the player should not be taxed again for the option of training all toons on the account. PERIOD.
I pay for this account I deserve the full unencumbered use of it.
AGAIN you can only use 1 toon at a time, therefore it allows a player/user to explore other options in the game.
In my case I would have 6 toons with 4 years, or roughly 70M+ sp per toon. Lots of options. Why is restricting us and asking for more money for a option that should be there already a good thing ?
You might want to consider a run for the US Congress, they use the same logic as well.
Having multiple characters training on the main account at the same time for the current subscription fee would completely obliterate the Character/PLEX market.
This because SP would no longer have any value. At the moment It takes some form of dedication to train 1 character to a high level of SP. If you at the same time have another 2 training for the same price you're chopping the value of characters down by 1/3rd of current market prices. Plex currently somewhat represents a certain amount of SP/Hr over a whole month.
As an example lets say you train 1000sp/h this comes down to 720.000 sp per month (depending on implants). A 1 year old character would have 8.640.000 sp. And its worth would be about 12 plex. 12 plex currently represents 180,- worth of training. If you now make all 3 characters able to train, you can simply divide 180 by 3, making the worth of the character just 60,-
Can you see the rage of the 2003 chars? That 10 years of training. With a current plex value of 1800,- chopped down to just 600,- worth if they would change that. It's simply a choice that was made at the start of EVE to say 1 plex = 1 char training for 30 days. Revert that/alter that and you completely stab EVE's wallet.
The only thing this new PLEX for a second char training enables is to keep your main training, while you also train another char for a short while on the same account without first having to transfer it off your account.. train it for a month, and then move it back to your main account again. So basically you get 2 transfers for free. But you're limited to the use of the character, as it can only be logged in while your main is not. Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother.-á |
Tess La'Coil
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
43
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 11:05:00 -
[130] - Quote
Sable Moran wrote:Over all the close to 10 years I've played I don't think I've been there more than maybe a dozen times, if even that. Wait, so there are people that don't use a mobile app which just pulls and shows the subscription data from their API? Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother.-á |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9421
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 11:31:00 -
[131] - Quote
SunTsu Rae wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just in case anyone was worried:
(1) Dual training isn't madatory
(2) It's not replacing multi-accounting, it's an "as well as", not an "instead of"
(3) It's useful for those who will use it. If you're not one of those people, then don't use it. We already know all of the above . . . . The point being , and I believe I have posted in my past 4 years somewhere about this , the player should not be taxed again for the option of training all toons on the account. PERIOD. I pay for this account I deserve the full unencumbered use of it...
Mene, mene tekel upharsin
1 Kings 12:11
|
SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 11:47:00 -
[132] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Mene, mene tekel upharsin
Ok , I'm game , what does Daniel have to do with this ? (curiosity peaked) SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
138
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 11:49:00 -
[133] - Quote
Thank you. |
SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 11:51:00 -
[134] - Quote
Tess La'Coil wrote:SunTsu Rae wrote:[quote=Malcanis]Just in case anyone was worried: The point being , and I believe I have posted in my past 4 years somewhere about this , the player should not be taxed again for the option of training all toons on the account. PERIOD.
I pay for this account I deserve the full unencumbered use of it.
AGAIN you can only use 1 toon at a time, therefore it allows a player/user to explore other options in the game.
In my case I would have 6 toons with 4 years, or roughly 70M+ sp per toon. Lots of options. Why is restricting us and asking for more money for a option that should be there already a good thing ?
You might want to consider a run for the US Congress, they use the same logic as well. Having multiple characters training on the main account at the same time for the current subscription fee would completely obliterate the Character/PLEX market. This because SP would no longer have any value. At the moment It takes some form of dedication to train 1 character to a high level of SP. If you at the same time have another 2 training for the same price you're chopping the value of characters down by 1/3rd of current market prices. Plex currently somewhat represents a certain amount of SP/Hr over a whole month. As an example lets say you train 1000sp/h this comes down to 720.000 sp per month (depending on implants). A 1 year old character would have 8.640.000 sp. And its worth would be about 12 plex. 12 plex currently represents 180,- worth of training. If you now make all 3 characters able to train, you can simply divide 180 by 3, making the worth of the character just 60,- Can you see the rage of the 2003 chars? That 10 years of training. With a current plex value of 1800,- chopped down to just 600,- worth if they would change that. It's simply a choice that was made at the start of EVE to say 1 plex = 1 char training for 30 days. Revert that/alter that and you completely stab EVE's wallet. The only thing this new PLEX for a second char training enables is to keep your main training, while you also train another char for a short while on the same account without first having to transfer it off your account.. train it for a month, and then move it back to your main account again. So basically you get 2 transfers for free. But you're limited to the use of the character, as it can only be logged in while your main is not.
Devalue ? Rage ? Really ? Go throw more money at your monitor. Talking to you and the crowd justifying this accomplishes nothing obviously. Therefore I shall no longer be dragged down. Good Day. SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
189
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 11:52:00 -
[135] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Moraguth wrote:First off, this is one of the biggest changes to overall eve philosophy since the skill queue (and I've been here since beta). Second, I probably won't be using this feature, but if I ever do, there's one thing I'd like to be able to see.
You said the time remaining would be visible from the account management screen. I'd like to see that information available in game. From any of your characters. At any time.
Last, I have a question. Can you activate that secondary training a second time so that you could have all 3 characters on your account training at the same time? (spend two PLEX, of course) This is limited to 2 characters at the moment. We will monitor this and can make adjustments in the future. We have to monitor what impact this might have on the PLEX market, etc. We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game. At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either. You don't have to show the remaining time in game, but you could show it in the character selection screen. In the same way you see your remaining game time when your subscription is about to run out, as a warning: 'You have X days of subscription left.' Could it be possible, using the same mechanic, to show a similar warning it in the character selection screen like: 'You have X days of dual training left on this account'? Shown a few days before it lapses?
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
|
Dances With Valkyries
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 11:52:00 -
[136] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:xttz wrote:Will you use this opportunity to make single character training a bit more usable?
Let's say I want to train a very short skill (a few hours) on an alt character that isn't worth a plex. Currently we have to:
1) Log out 2) Log in the character currently training and pause it. 3) Log out again 4) Log back into the character you want to train temporarily and start the skill.
Why can't starting a skill from an alt automatically pause the other character on the same account? It's funny because we were just discussing how the technical changes implemented to allow for this feature would also allow for pausing a character you are not logged into. Not likely to make it for Odyssey but certainly something we will consider for the future.
While we're dreaming, how about restarting a paused queue for another character (possible the one with the most SP) if the current training ends? |
Baron Holbach
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 12:06:00 -
[137] - Quote
Quote: For improved visibility, please note that activated and remaining Dual Character Training time may be seen at any time in the Account Management page.
in dev blob, if/is this info also visible in api? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9424
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 12:24:00 -
[138] - Quote
SunTsu Rae wrote:Malcanis wrote: Mene, mene tekel upharsin Ok , I'm game , what does Daniel have to do with this ? (curiosity peaked)
Your post was weighed, weighed and found wanting.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
451
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 12:26:00 -
[139] - Quote
SunTsu Rae wrote:The point being , and I believe I have posted in my past 4 years somewhere about this , the player should not be taxed again for the option of training all toons on the account. PERIOD.
I pay for this account I deserve the full unencumbered use of it.
So you demand triple the value but want to still only pay the same 15 lousy bucks. Sounds reasonable
You probably also go into a McDonalds and say: "I paid for my burger, so I also want full unencumbered use of your whole menu, so give me two more burgers for free!"
You pay alright, but you pay for training a single character. You want more characters training, you pay more, mhkay? . |
Dances With Valkyries
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 12:30:00 -
[140] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game. At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.
I would like to see this as well. I'm glad EveMon shows this but it would be nice if the character selection screen showed this as well. If I remember correctly, it shows the current skill queue duration so showing the account duration remaining above the characters would be nice. |
|
dephekt
Whale Girth
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:05:00 -
[141] - Quote
My main issue with this is, if I get a second account and pay a 30-day PLEX, I get simultaneous use from both account one and account two. Under this system, for the same fee, you get the limited ability for 30-days to perform extra training on an alt character on your same account that you cannot play concurrently with your main. As I understand it, the main opportunity for benefit is limited to people that were paying character transfer fees and managing a "trainer" account to gain a additional training slot to later consolidate the characters to another account.
Why not simply eliminate the cost of performing character transfers from accounts owned by the same person and use the development time, instead, in implementing features or fixing current issues that will benefit a larger number of players?
Surely, the character transfer process is either entirely or mostly automated at this point, and adding the logic to check if a character transfer is occurring between accounts belonging to the same person and removing the fee in that circumstance, would be less development than implementing the in-game UI, database, and website UI back-end changes required to make the Dual Character Training system functional. Not to mention the future development cost of maintaining the additional implementation code.
CCP already makes plenty of money from individuals paying for multiple simultaneous accounts to gain a second training queue, in addition to the arbitrary character transfer fees. This seems like more of an excuse to add more ways for people to spend money rather than alleviating some perceived player issue that only exists for a small fraction of people, which as I mentioned could be resolved by removing an already arbitrary fee with little development time or code impact.
If this whole article had been replaced with "Dev blog: Change Characters Without Closing The Game" you would have nailed an actual gameplay hindrance that affects virtually any player with more than one character that shouldn't even exist in the first place and would be worthy of development effort, without adding additional "opportunities" for us to share our money with CCP.
As I understood it, our game subscription fees are supposed to be going towards furthering the development and recurring costs of the game as it is. Drumming up more money should be a function of increasing subscriptions by improving and enhancing the game, not adding additional ways to spend money for the same game we're already paying a subscription for. |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
956
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 14:46:00 -
[142] - Quote
But... but... but, you now make our standard "what other MMO lets you train 2 accounts at once" meaningless!
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SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 15:06:00 -
[143] - Quote
World of Warcraft , yes I blasphemed , is a different sort of toon building format . But , they do not ask for more money to build a second toon and skill it on the same account.
(They do however bend you over with no lube when it comes to the expansions.)
I do not understand how you as a group can correlate why this is "unfair" to long term players. Won't ever. It's a new item, new offer.
I do not understand how you as a group find this extra charge acceptable. Not gonna happen.
I do see it being exploited , as I mentioned previously , on a tactical and strategic level by the alliances that can afford to do so.
I suppose that's acceptable. Mind you it still will take time to be felt on the order of a year or so, but expect it. SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
163
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 15:19:00 -
[144] - Quote
Tess La'Coil wrote:Sable Moran wrote:Over all the close to 10 years I've played I don't think I've been there more than maybe a dozen times, if even that. Wait, so there are people that don't use a mobile app which just pulls and shows the subscription data from their API?
Where is the need?
I've went to account management to change my billing period once (times two for two accounts), twice to check issues due to credit cards expiring, twice to select gifts (Christmas 2011 and that other time I've already forgotten what it was), two or three times to check changes to those pages and that's about it. Why should I have gone there more often just for fun?
So, in the end any information put there would be, sort of, behind a barrier. It would be much smarter to put the dual training timer into the game client itself. I would not call it breaking the verisimilitude. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
197
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 15:24:00 -
[145] - Quote
Seems like maybe they should let it last 6 weeks or so? At 4 weeks it costs as much to run this as it does a second account. thhief ghabmoef |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 15:24:00 -
[146] - Quote
I completely support this, well done Devs. Tiericide is tiers by another name. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1865
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 15:41:00 -
[147] - Quote
dephekt wrote:My main issue with this is, if I get a second account and pay a 30-day PLEX, I get simultaneous use from both account one and account two. Under this system, for the same fee, you get the limited ability for 30-days to perform extra training on an alt character on your same account that you cannot play concurrently with your main. As I understand it, the main opportunity for benefit is limited to people that were paying character transfer fees and managing a "trainer" account to gain a additional training slot to later consolidate the characters to another account.
Why not simply eliminate the cost of performing character transfers from accounts owned by the same person and use the development time, instead, in implementing features or fixing current issues that will benefit a larger number of players?
Because they have no way to confirm two accounts are owned by the same person. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
dephekt
Whale Girth
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 15:47:00 -
[148] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:dephekt wrote:My main issue with this is, if I get a second account and pay a 30-day PLEX, I get simultaneous use from both account one and account two. Under this system, for the same fee, you get the limited ability for 30-days to perform extra training on an alt character on your same account that you cannot play concurrently with your main. As I understand it, the main opportunity for benefit is limited to people that were paying character transfer fees and managing a "trainer" account to gain a additional training slot to later consolidate the characters to another account.
Why not simply eliminate the cost of performing character transfers from accounts owned by the same person and use the development time, instead, in implementing features or fixing current issues that will benefit a larger number of players?
Because they have no way to confirm two accounts are owned by the same person.
That's not true. There are numerous ways they could confirm this. Based on the name and information you give when you buy the account, the email address or telephone number you provide, your method of payment, gameplay IP ranges, etc. Granted, you can make an account in such a way that CCP would not reasonably be able to determine you are the same guy as another account. In such a case, you would just be treated as a separate entity as they would be unable to confirm you were the same person.
People that intentionally obfuscate their identity will know going in that they will not be able to use that system, so I don't see that as a problem. Basically, if you intentionally make your accounts look like they belong to different people, you have to live with the possibility that CCP may actually believe your accounts belong to different people.
If you're like me, you use your legal name and address when you purchase and pay for your accounts and you likely use the same payment method (or at least methods that are traceable back to your name). If you don't, then the onus is on you to prove you are who you say you are.
As an example, World of Warcraft allows transferring characters (only) between accounts owned by the same people. They have an automated system that does this. If your details between the two accounts don't match, you're out of luck. |
Styledatol
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 16:18:00 -
[149] - Quote
Dances With Valkyries wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game. At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.
I would like to see this as well. I'm glad EveMon shows this but it would be nice if the character selection screen showed this as well. If I remember correctly, it shows the current skill queue duration so showing the account duration remaining above the characters would be nice.
That option is already implemented, in a way: If you use the PLEX for Time service, you will have remaining days of gametime displayed when you enter your character selection screen forever after using that service. I do know it only starts showing when you have less than 10 days left, or something like that. So I guess let your account expire, use PLEX for Time, and you'll have that counter displayed.
Edit: pics |
SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 16:20:00 -
[150] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:SunTsu Rae wrote:Malcanis wrote: Mene, mene tekel upharsin Ok , I'm game , what does Daniel have to do with this ? (curiosity peaked) Your post was weighed, weighed and found wanting.
You do realize that the fictional character you paraphrased got his knickers knotted later, right ?
The only other way I can take that is a RL threat.
Challenge Accepted. Come to Ohio. SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
|
dephekt
Whale Girth
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 16:24:00 -
[151] - Quote
SunTsu Rae wrote:Malcanis wrote:SunTsu Rae wrote:Malcanis wrote: Mene, mene tekel upharsin Ok , I'm game , what does Daniel have to do with this ? (curiosity peaked) Your post was weighed, weighed and found wanting. You do realize that the fictional character you paraphrased got his knickers knotted later, right ? The only other way I can take that is a RL threat. Challenge Accepted. Come to Ohio.
Please don't derail this otherwise productive thread into some muscle-flexing thing. Nothing in what he's said could in any way be implied as a physical threat by a reasonable person. Let's stay on the topic of CCP solving "problems" by having us spend more money. |
SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 16:28:00 -
[152] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:dephekt wrote:My main issue with this is, if I get a second account and pay a 30-day PLEX, I get simultaneous use from both account one and account two. Under this system, for the same fee, you get the limited ability for 30-days to perform extra training on an alt character on your same account that you cannot play concurrently with your main. As I understand it, the main opportunity for benefit is limited to people that were paying character transfer fees and managing a "trainer" account to gain a additional training slot to later consolidate the characters to another account.
Why not simply eliminate the cost of performing character transfers from accounts owned by the same person and use the development time, instead, in implementing features or fixing current issues that will benefit a larger number of players?
Because they have no way to confirm two accounts are owned by the same person. If you know of one you should forward the method to CCP security, as they want to ban all the accounts owned by a player whenever any one is caught botting or doing RMT.
Well if it's not PLEX paid , Credit Card numbers , Name and address were filled in at that time too, when I paid for both accounts. SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
SunTsu Rae
Legion Of The Spoon People Gecko Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 16:36:00 -
[153] - Quote
dephekt wrote:SunTsu Rae wrote:Malcanis wrote:SunTsu Rae wrote:Malcanis wrote: Mene, mene tekel upharsin Ok , I'm game , what does Daniel have to do with this ? (curiosity peaked) Your post was weighed, weighed and found wanting. You do realize that the fictional character you paraphrased got his knickers knotted later, right ? The only other way I can take that is a RL threat. Challenge Accepted. Come to Ohio. Please don't derail this otherwise productive thread into some muscle-flexing thing. Nothing in what he's said could in any way be implied as a physical threat by a reasonable person. Let's stay on the topic of CCP solving "problems" by having us spend more money and not actually adding value to our recurring purchases.
Daniel (KJV)
5:26 This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
5:27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
5:28 PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.
That could be interpreted as such, however I believe he's a heretic using scripture for his own needs and not for God's.
I'll defer to your advice though.
SunTsu Rae Ensuring Rights, Recognition, and Remembrance. (Gulf War 1991) [url]http://www.vfw.org[/url] |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1755
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:16:00 -
[154] - Quote
CCP Quant wrote:Alx Warlord wrote:
The next big step would be allowing to merge all counts, with one Api, one login... I thing we all share this dream!
Fly Safe o/
I couldn't agree more It worked quite well in Guild Wars 1
Malcanis wrote:
Mene, mene tekel upharsin
Ouch.
SunTsu Rae wrote: The only other way I can take that is a RL threat.
Challenge Accepted. Come to Ohio.
What are you smoking? That's an interpretation I cannot fathom any sober individual would make. I recommend you take a deep breath - or ten - before hitting the 'Post' button.
Takumiro wrote:This feature should be free. Why?
Those of you who don't want to pay for some bonus cnoveninece, or are whinging about 'greed' - When CCP makes an optional convenience avaliable, why should they give it to you for free? It's NOT manditory, nor is it game-breaking. This is NOT 'pay to win' - This is 'pay to have something nice and kinda useful.' CCP is in the busines to make money, so quit whinging about greed when you have zero obligation to use this - and indeed can continue going about things the old way.
Bottom line: Don't like it? Don't use it. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5101
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:21:00 -
[155] - Quote
SunTsu Rae wrote: Daniel (KJV)
5:26 This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
5:27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
5:28 PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.
That could be interpreted as such, however I believe he's a heretic using scripture for his own needs and not for God's.
I'll defer to your advice though.
Hahaha oh man, you're a real piece of work. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
destinationunreachable
Hello Kitty Fanclub
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:38:00 -
[156] - Quote
guys, took you 4 years to do this feature request http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1026297&page=1#1
edit: can't count |
No Alibi
Shadow Brokers
25
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:39:00 -
[157] - Quote
Anathema Matou wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:Anathema Matou wrote:This new feature has a UI problem. Please keep the option to activate dual training 2 steps away from activate game time, to avoid... accidents , i.e. below the "return to redeem items" option. There is an additional modal window which will require confirmation. If not these two, then there will be another two options next to each other. We discussed this internally but hopefully the modal confirmation window is enough to prevent mistakes? Actually, to elaborate why this is dangerous and, imho, insufficient to prevent mistakes: the activate-game-time also has a dialog box (even two, one for activating and one for the "please wait between consecutive activations"). People get used to quickly clicking OKAY on those. So having another option with a model dialog is not very safe. Try not to do that while drinking.... I fly by the seat of my pants, No wonder my-áass is always on fire! |
No Alibi
Shadow Brokers
25
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:46:00 -
[158] - Quote
Vizvig wrote:We know that we dont need anything that break balance. (like gold shells)
My idea: how about new skills for aurum? Skills dont disrupt balance because they should be trained. This ^^ A use for useless Aurum I fly by the seat of my pants, No wonder my-áass is always on fire! |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1756
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:46:00 -
[159] - Quote
No Alibi wrote:Anathema Matou wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:Anathema Matou wrote:This new feature has a UI problem. Please keep the option to activate dual training 2 steps away from activate game time, to avoid... accidents , i.e. below the "return to redeem items" option. There is an additional modal window which will require confirmation. If not these two, then there will be another two options next to each other. We discussed this internally but hopefully the modal confirmation window is enough to prevent mistakes? Actually, to elaborate why this is dangerous and, imho, insufficient to prevent mistakes: the activate-game-time also has a dialog box (even two, one for activating and one for the "please wait between consecutive activations"). People get used to quickly clicking OKAY on those. So having another option with a model dialog is not very safe. Try not to do that while drinking.... Don't activate a PLEX you can't afford to misallocate.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
No Alibi
Shadow Brokers
25
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:16:00 -
[160] - Quote
Drachiel wrote:45 days please, to cover the inability to dualbox. Seems fair...or buy 1, get 1.5 return??? I fly by the seat of my pants, No wonder my-áass is always on fire! |
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:33:00 -
[161] - Quote
I dunno... call me crazy but I think this is over priced. If you aren't actively training a 2nd character your timer shouldn't run on the plex you paid. Basically CCP is getting paid for full use of two characters when you can't fully use two characters. 1, and only 1, can ever be logged in at a time still. We're paying FULL PRICE for the ability to train a 2nd character. I'd be ok with that if I only paid while the character was training: IE: Pause the timer if the 2nd character isn't actually training anything.
Also, because it's plex, you're paying a lot more for it. Monthly fee: $14.95 a month 3 Months: 12.95 a month 6 Months: etc....
1 Plex: $19.95 (Currently on sale for $17.95) (Yes, I know those of us who can afford it can buy them with isk, that's beside the point)
I'm sorry but am I the only one that sees something wrong here?
Blackwatch Website | My Blog "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.-á He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
4984
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 20:16:00 -
[162] - Quote
Taram Caldar wrote:I dunno... call me crazy but I think this is over priced. If you aren't actively training a 2nd character your timer shouldn't run on the plex you paid. Basically CCP is getting paid for full use of two characters when you can't fully use two characters. 1, and only 1, can ever be logged in at a time still. We're paying FULL PRICE for the ability to train a 2nd character. I'd be ok with that if I only paid while the character was training: IE: Pause the timer if the 2nd character isn't actually training anything.
Also, because it's plex, you're paying a lot more for it. Monthly fee: $14.95 a month 3 Months: 12.95 a month 6 Months: etc....
1 Plex: $19.95 (Currently on sale for $17.95) (Yes, I know those of us who can afford it can buy them with isk, that's beside the point)
I'm sorry but am I the only one that sees something wrong here? It's not a mandatory thing. If you see other options being preferable, feel free to use them instead. |
Commander IceQ
Spit and Ductape Maintenance
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 21:14:00 -
[163] - Quote
Neftaran wrote:Your greed sickens me.
Damion Rayne wrote:Now this is straight up greed.
SunTsu Rae wrote:I've read enough. Yet... you are here and still p(l)aying... RAGE QUIT!!! Can I has your stuff?
SunTsu Rae wrote:The point being , and I believe I have posted in my past 4 years somewhere about this , the player should not be taxed again for the option of training all toons on the account. PERIOD.
I pay for this account I deserve the full unencumbered use of it.
AGAIN you can only use 1 toon at a time, therefore it allows a player/user to explore other options in the game.
In my case I would have 6 toons with 4 years, or roughly 70M+ sp per toon. Lots of options. Why is restricting us and asking for more money for a option that should be there already a good thing ? Show me ANY MMO where you can log in with 1 account and have all the toons on that account active in at the same time... or where you level/train all of them at the same time... If you can do that, only THEN will any of the arguments for making it free have any kind of validation.
This isn't greed, this is a business decision. CCP is a company, they need to make money. They do this by providing services, and charging for it. Why not?
Back On Topic: Nice feature... now I can finally train that last level on my CEO toon. :) I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it. |
Michiko Misaka
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 21:15:00 -
[164] - Quote
I sort of see why CCP went with this sort of system.. it's a balanced thing
This is never intended as a replacement for alt accounts, since all it is enabling is the activation of another character's skill queue. Of course, the limitation (only one additional skill queue, and you paying for the feature) is there for a reason.
Sorry to spoil the fun but no, unlocking all three toons' skill queues as a free added feature will not happen, and as such you won't be training alts for sale as a form of passive income, and you all know CCP don't like effortless passive income...
I am against the 'one account per customer' thing. And highly likely CCP will not restrict it - it's already giving them the revenue they need. If you can't recall all your userIDs and passwords for every last one of them off your head, you shouldn't be complaining about the problems of operating multiple accounts, ad most other more competent players can do that effortlessly.
Besides, having 4 accounts and a total of 16 toons active, and having to transfer the best ones over into a single account with the fees associated is not worth it - individual accounts' client settings and fully functional independent operatability aside, i enjoy the current implementation of multiple accounts, and the capability to pay for another skill queue is a great addition.
Though the price difference between PLEX and equivalent current subscription fees for the same period is a bit imbalanced / not identical for value, but this may be due to the price of a 1-month regular sub fee being exactly worth a PLEX ($19.95) so i wonder what solution CCP can grant for this issue.
Overall, i approve of the current implementation of this addon. Subscription Period Timers can go on the character profile > PIlot License window and logon screen , whilst the new Skill Queue timer can go on the characters' Skill queue as an expanded window or as a timer, and as another timer on logon screen that shows when the particular character is highlighted.
The only other thing that really needs addressing is switching between characters - the current implementation of having to completely log-off and restart the client is quite cumbersome. I've gone and run multiple clients, pausing skillqueue on one then instantly logging on the other just so i can squeeze in a few seconds of skilltraining on the other character that would otherwise be lost just going through the entire logoff and restart client process...
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Drachiel
Mercury LLC
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 21:42:00 -
[165] - Quote
No Alibi wrote:Drachiel wrote:45 days please, to cover the inability to dualbox. Seems fair...or buy 1, get 1.5 return???
Dual training
$19.95 per month Cannot use both characters at once
Second Account
$15 per month Can use both characters at once
Not only is a second account cheaper, it's also outright better.
45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
497
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 21:48:00 -
[166] - Quote
Drachiel wrote:No Alibi wrote:Drachiel wrote:45 days please, to cover the inability to dualbox. Seems fair...or buy 1, get 1.5 return??? Dual training $19.95 per month Cannot use both characters at once Second Account $15 per month Can use both characters at once Not only is a second account cheaper, it's also outright better.45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box.
Not precisely, because what happens at the end of that month? If you're training a character with a 30-day skill requirement (trader, scout, cyno, etc.) then you have to pay your extra $15/month to use the character at all, even after all the skills they need are trained, or more than that to merge the character back into a main account. If you pay the $19.95/1 PLEX for a second skill queue, that's all you ever pay in order to be able to use that alt.
It doesn't make much sense if you only have 1 account to begin with (although, especially if the alt is a CEO or a trader, it might). But if you have two or more, it's a nice option to have.
If you want a second character who can log in simultaneously with your first, has a dedicated skill queue, etc., then of course you want that character to have their own account. But then, you don't want an alt, you want another character. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
630
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 22:09:00 -
[167] - Quote
Roajax wrote:Go the full distance.... Increase the number of toons per account to at least 9. Allow us to login multiple characters at once.
IE: If I'm paying 2 plex's per month I should be able to login 2 toons on that account. Nothing worse than trying to make the right combo of pilots + cynos work when there are ridiculous account restrictions. IE: toon1 on account#1 with cyno. toon #2 on account #2 with carrier. toon #3 on account #1 with jump freighter. See the problem? Would be a ton easier if I could just whichever 2 toons I need.
I fail to see the problem here. If you are paying effectively for 2 accounts, and you want to play 2 characters at once, make 2 accounts. Create a cyno on each account. |
Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
27
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 22:26:00 -
[168] - Quote
Somebody needs to protest and point out the negative side of this new feature.
But it won't me.
Well I will point to CCP that they are going to lose some revenue from pirates. Now rotating pirate alts can be done on a single account with no months where alts have reach optimal useful training but its too soon for starting the next alts. Lots of those guys held extra accounts open continuously for pirate alts - so that pirate alts could be periodically replaced without interfering with the main toon training when the pirate became too infamous to be profitable. Not talking about the big name/big fleet pirates who take pride in their infamy but those pirates who do small squad ambush piracy of commerce and exhumer bounties. Hard to do ambush when half of EVE recognizes you in local and flees to stations.
Plus of course CCP loses the toon transfer fee off the old approach of "train alt on separate account until mature then transfer alt to consolidate accounts".
On positive note -- maybe we will see less trial account abuse by veteran pirates. Although given the cost of PLEX, I doubt it will disappear. Still there are things full accounts can do that trials can't - which CrimeWatch changes have made more important. Things like haulers getting suspect flagged for stealing loot mean higher tanking/navigation skills are important. Plus snatch and grab hauler names gaining infamy in local due to flagging...leading to need for name changes/alt replacement.
On the bad news/good news front...I expect the average quality of player pirates to increase since additional training comes in 30 day blocks. Sure many will just split training time in half and give two alts the training of old trail account strategies. Still the temptation for more skill and better pirating ships might makes some pirates SLIGHTLY more vulnerable to revenge as they have more to lose.
Great feature change.Can hardly waitingfor the ripples to settle and final effects on game to be seen. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 22:38:00 -
[169] - Quote
I would have much rather of had a system where you can Queue up skills and when they are done they move to another character.
But hey, I guess that doesn't eat plex.
And for those of you wanting to do this for a whole year... Buy a second account!..
Why would you pay for a whole year when all you can do is train!... The price of plexs and subscription is over the top as it is, and now they add this in and some of you seem happy to jump on it, durrrr...
The reason customers are jumping ship and not buying plexs is not down to the economy or a shift in customer values. It's because you nerf the things that required multiple players. Manufacturing and R&D come to mind here, the amount of nerfage on that over the past couple of years has seen a lot of big producers take 10 accounts down to 1.
But hey.... If you would rather code in a new revenue stream rather than add great features, so be it. It is your game. |
Roki Romani
Running with Knives Nexus Fleet
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 22:51:00 -
[170] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:
We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game.
Why not? CCP RubberBAND wrote: At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.
Well, that time should be shown too. Why not? And the players would not see it "all the time", just when their character sheet is open. Even then they would not see a time ticking down, just the expiration date and time. I'll bring this up with the team again, since a few people are asking about this in the thread, but it's basically to do with verisimilitude or what things belong/fit in game and what things belong/fit in account management pages. So far with the exception of PLEX, there is little in game which references account management and that's intentional. Showing things which are removed from the EVE universe in gameplay or narrative terms is something we have tried to avoid, but like I said we will discuss this and see if the PLEX section or character sheet is the right place to potentially show timers like this. There are a number of different views within the team itself, so that's one of the reasons we have held off on a timer of some kind. Feedback like this is great though as it helps us know what you guys wants. I would argue that the duration remaining on your character's in-game pilot license, which you paid for by purchasing an in-game coupon, which you can only activate while in-game, counts as worthy in-game information.
I agree that "Paid account time remaining" should not be displayed in-game... But what if we were to say that purchasing a month's subscription was actually both increasing your account time AND granting you an in-game pilot's licence extension? Even though these two things would have identical timers, they could still be treated and presented differently. |
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Krynn Fennir
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 23:44:00 -
[171] - Quote
Good idea, poor implementation. PLEX was began as an alternate way of paying for game subscriptions, buy trading real money for ISK via CCP's in-game method (currently the only way to go about this without getting banned). Then you made a pointless little store... I mean really... not a single ship or module on it... However, for those that for some reason like to play 'dress up' with their characters, it is something that increases the demand and cost of PLEX. Now you're adding another feature that will do the same.
I'm all for added features and functionality, but those features need to be assigned to separate items. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
272
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 00:00:00 -
[172] - Quote
Topic locked temporarily for some cleaning and dusting. ISD Ezwal Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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CCP Quant
C C P C C P Alliance
28
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Posted - 2013.05.17 01:09:00 -
[173] - Quote
destinationunreachable wrote:
Well holy **** Thanks for digging this up, I'll send this around the house |
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7876
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 01:16:00 -
[174] - Quote
Drachiel wrote:No Alibi wrote:Drachiel wrote:45 days please, to cover the inability to dualbox. Seems fair...or buy 1, get 1.5 return??? Dual training $19.95 per month Cannot use both characters at once Second Account $15 per month Can use both characters at once Not only is a second account cheaper, it's also outright better.45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box.
There are benefits and drawbacks to using a second account and there are benefits and drawbacks to using dual character training. With dual training, you don't need to continue paying that extra PLEX or $15 every month to use the character you've trained. If you need to keep a second character training long-term with the ability to use them both concurrently, a second account is more suitable for you. If you only need to train a second character for a while but don't want to commit to paying an extra $15/month to use it, dual training is probably a better option.
This is why you still have the choice of using a second account, but CCP is simply giving you another option to consider. mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 01:25:00 -
[175] - Quote
My main issue is cost. A plex is 20 bucks. To add a "bonus" is a 125% increase in the account cost for a temporary "feature". |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7877
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 01:37:00 -
[176] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:My main issue is cost. A plex is 20 bucks. To add a "bonus" is a 125% increase in the account cost for a temporary "feature".
It's a 33% increase, not a 125% increase, and they're probably using PLEX because it's easier to implement for an experimental feature that we have no guarantee will continue to be offered in the long term. I'm sure they'll consider allowing you to buy it directly through account management eventually, but for now, this is probably aimed at those of us who already buy PLEX in-game to pay for our accounts. mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Giribaldi
Relentless Force Mutual and Absolute Destruction
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 03:01:00 -
[177] - Quote
Dear CCP, I like the idea however id like to ask that u allow us 2 ability to either take advtange of this DUAL training and let us dual TRAIN 1 toon.. What i mean is Activate dual train and activate 2 skill trains at once on one toon on that single acount. Yes i know the coding on this is very VERY complex and will unlikly come this patch.. BUT please see to it that we get it later on? Cus TBH i have 6 acount's and this is in know way diffrent from having a second acount MINUS i cant log into all my toons in 1 acount... and a plex costs more.... SO as a valued Customer of CCP please dont SEED this USELESS idea... because in all honesty just get urself a 2nd acount or 7th in my case save the 5 bucks (diffrence from 1 plex versus 1 month sub) or 38 bucks (1 year sub) like i do... its in essence the same exact thing with the draw back of i cant use the 2nd character in training... the only way this is good is to train research alts(takes like 34 day's and isnt really worth another acount.... or something along those lines.... If peopel are smart they would buddy invite themself thsu gaining a plex for free and get 21+30 days of game time on one acoutn for the price of 0 dollars (with use of 500m for plex) very easy LOOP hole if u will... (might wanna al;so look into getting rid of said loop hole (AKA gettign around the acount creation fee of 4.95 or w.e it is [1 time fee]) Looking forward to the REPLY CCP... (ALSO I AGREE WITH CRHIBBA!!! HES MA BUDDY!!) |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
269
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Posted - 2013.05.17 04:31:00 -
[178] - Quote
Riffix wrote:All they do is reduce the need for players to work together
That's not true at all. I have this character as my main, and another that is a perfect market alt. I still work with other players an awful lot. It just helps keep your characters focused. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
Debir Achen
The Red Circle Inc.
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 05:17:00 -
[179] - Quote
Valkyrs wrote:If it's smart enough to realize someone else is training, please offer to pause it and start it on the current character. Yes PLEASE! Please. please.
Though with dual-training, the dialog would need to list the characters who are training (ie the other two) and ask which is to be paused.
Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature? |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 06:33:00 -
[180] - Quote
Hahaha, some tard happy for the new plex price manipulation. Welcome to over 700m plex prices. Dual character train ? The training was hard with separated characters, on two accounts ? But at least all those character could log on, in same time. |
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Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
382
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Posted - 2013.05.17 07:37:00 -
[181] - Quote
Finally something that improves eve not nerfing caldari all the time like Fozzie does. Go Guard(or who worked on it) and take Fozzies pay you deserve it more.
I would have loved this dual training implemented years ago,currently i already have my alts :P |
Hairpins Blueprint
Dark Intruders Command Apocalypse Now.
9
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Posted - 2013.05.17 07:38:00 -
[182] - Quote
Sure this is nice .... bout whot will happen with plex price : (( it will rise up to 700m after this -_-''
i call it a JESUS Feature : | |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
382
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 07:39:00 -
[183] - Quote
Giribaldi wrote:Dear CCP, I like the idea however id like to ask that u allow us 2 ability to either take advtange of this DUAL training and let us dual TRAIN 1 toon.. What i mean is Activate dual train and activate 2 skill trains at once on one toon on that single acount. Yes i know the coding on this is very VERY complex and will unlikly come this patch.. BUT please see to it that we get it later on? Cus TBH i have 6 acount's and this is in know way diffrent from having a second acount MINUS i cant log into all my toons in 1 acount... and a plex costs more.... SO as a valued Customer of CCP please dont SEED this USELESS idea... because in all honesty just get urself a 2nd acount or 7th in my case save the 5 bucks (diffrence from 1 plex versus 1 month sub) or 38 bucks (1 year sub) like i do... its in essence the same exact thing with the draw back of i cant use the 2nd character in training... the only way this is good is to train research alts(takes like 34 day's and isnt really worth another acount.... or something along those lines.... If peopel are smart they would buddy invite themself thsu gaining a plex for free and get 21+30 days of game time on one acoutn for the price of 0 dollars (with use of 500m for plex) very easy LOOP hole if u will... (might wanna al;so look into getting rid of said loop hole (AKA gettign around the acount creation fee of 4.95 or w.e it is [1 time fee]) Looking forward to the REPLY CCP... (ALSO I AGREE WITH CRHIBBA!!! HES MA BUDDY!!) Also plex should beconvertable into free allocatable sp... NOPE |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 10:00:00 -
[184] - Quote
Andski wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:My main issue is cost. A plex is 20 bucks. To add a "bonus" is a 125% increase in the account cost for a temporary "feature". It's a 33% increase, not a 125% increase, and they're probably using PLEX because it's easier to implement for an experimental feature that we have no guarantee will continue to be offered in the long term. I'm sure they'll consider allowing you to buy it directly through account management eventually, but for now, this is probably aimed at those of us who already buy PLEX in-game to pay for our accounts.
If I got this wrong on my napkin math forgive me.
Monthly subscription 14.99 To enable dual character, you have to plex it. A plex is 20 a month 15+20, 35 dollars a month.
Its over double the amount just to enable a feature. |
Lucian Thorundan
House Of Serenity. Unprovoked Aggression
1
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Posted - 2013.05.17 10:08:00 -
[185] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Monthly subscription 14.99 To enable dual character, you have to plex it. A plex is 20 a month 15+20, 35 dollars a month.
Its over double the amount just to enable a feature.
Yes its more, BUT you have to remember a few things:
1. This feature cost money to make. CCP dev time, QA time, design time etc. 2. You do get the gain of still using said alt after you stop paying this, unlike a second account. 3. You dont have to use it.
I personally run multiple accounts, some of which are so i can dual box and some of which are so i can train alts, i personally will continue to use both of these features and am extremely happy to see it coming in.
Also, the CCP dev's have said a few times in here that they will look at alternative payment etc if it gets used and we request it, as for now its a "trial" system using PLEX only.
Multiple applications of PLEX to stack the "training credit" will also come in with time if its used.
On the topic, somebody else asked here, how will the API represent the dual training accounts, time left etc? I'm keen to understand how that will be reflected. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7887
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 10:52:00 -
[186] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:If I got this wrong on my napkin math forgive me.
Monthly subscription 14.99 To enable dual character, you have to plex it. A plex is 20 a month 15+20, 35 dollars a month.
Its over double the amount just to enable a feature.
Yes, it requires a PLEX because it's an experimental feature and that may change in the future. If they do eventually allow you to pay for it in the account management section without a PLEX then I doubt it'll cost $20. Same way a character transfer costs $20 if you pay for it in cash and 2 PLEX if you opt to use PLEX.
Also nobody pays $20 for PLEX they usually buy packages of 2 or more which brings the price down to $17.50 mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
blue dehazon
Allice AVATAR Corporation RB Mining
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 11:55:00 -
[187] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:As some of you have seen on our test server Singularity, the option to train alts on the same account for PLEX is being implemented. To further explain the details of this sought after function, CCP Quant and CCP Ytterbium have written a new dev blog which we invite you to feast your eyes on. And of course we eagerly await your feedback and questions as always.
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Alexader Dark
The Band of Brothers
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 12:02:00 -
[188] - Quote
Let's see. I do not have an Alt Toon, But if I did. I could Pay twice to train 2 Toons on 1 account and only be able to play 1 at any given times, or train 2 Toons on 2 accounts for the same price and be able to play 2 Toons at the same time.
This is a HARD decission, NOT! |
Countess Kari
Disciples Of Rebellion
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 12:22:00 -
[189] - Quote
If I remember correctly, when Eve first came out we were able to train all our toons at the same time anyways. Then they stopped it for some reason. I know I was not happy about having to pay to activate another account, but hey, players let it happen. It is still cheaper to run two accounts, you can play them at the same time and make use of them |
Sandgeist
Die Weltenbauer New Eden Industrie Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 12:36:00 -
[190] - Quote
We have payed for the game. For a Game with 3 Charackterslots. And now we have to pay again if we want to train a 2nd Char simultaneously. ?!
Rly ccp. Dont do this. Give the simultaneously train for free. Or make it like this: We activate 1 more simultaneously training bar with one plex for ever. But not every month 1 plex for 1 char to train. Thats to hard in pay to win direction.... |
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Adkira
Die Weltenbauer New Eden Industrie Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.05.17 12:41:00 -
[191] - Quote
Sandgeist wrote:We have payed for the game. For a Game with 3 Charackterslots. And now we have to pay again if we want to train a 2nd Char simultaneously. ?!
Rly ccp. Dont do this. Give the simultaneously train for free. Or make it like this: We activate 1 more simultaneously training bar with one plex for ever. But not every month 1 plex for 1 char to train. Thats to hard in pay to win direction....
!
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Tommy Nash
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.17 13:22:00 -
[192] - Quote
I find this feature really useful for toons you only want to use for very specific stuff and you only want to train for limited skills. i.e. Trader toons, Research toons and hi-sec haulers. For other porpouse, its better to have an extra account.
Only problem I see is that PLEX prices are going to rise. Dual character training + Power of 2 + Tournament = 600mill PLEX or higher = More people paying monthly suscription or buying PLEX to CCP. Smart move CCP. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1768
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 16:06:00 -
[193] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote: *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal
Right. Sorry - Didn't think I'd quite crossed that particular line, but I'll note the warning and be more careful.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1768
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 16:13:00 -
[194] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:
And for those of you wanting to do this for a whole year... Buy a second account!..
There you have it - you've found the core point: This is a short term convenience, not a full-up year-round program. Once or twice a year - maybe three times - it makes good sense. Used much more than that, just go ahead and get a second account. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
742
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 18:03:00 -
[195] - Quote
"Stands up"
Bravo CCP !!
*applauds*
Your route to excellence is shorter by a long distance.
Thank you very much for listening your community and offering the so important "planning choices" players have to do. This will help a lot of players and as you rightfully stated, it's a very good compromise for players as for the company it self.
Once again, bravo! *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
156
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 21:24:00 -
[196] - Quote
Drachiel wrote:[quote=No Alibi] Dual training
$19.95 per month Cannot use both characters at once
Second Account
$15 per month Can use both characters at once
Not only is a second account cheaper, it's also outright better.
45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box.
Don't get me wrong here, I love having two accounts to alt tab between but I don't find much benefits from more than two since my system gets sluggish and there is rarely a reason why I would have both my accounts idle. Plus I prefer spending 2 PLEX a month for my 6 characters over 6 PLEX a month for six accounts.
My accounts have 3 characters that I use and if I want to train one of my alts for a month my options are to either pause my main, or to start a new account (1 PLEX) transfer my alt (2 PLEX) for a total of 3 PLEX and an additional PLEX a month every month or transfer it back after a month (2 PLEX) for a total of 5 PLEX! I prefer just paying 1 PLEX to add an additional 1-2m SP to my preexisting alts which occurs especially when new skills or ships are introduced.
This feature isn't for everyone, but it is a great option for people in this situation who have three characters on an account that they use. |
Edward Perry
Ferengi University
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 21:37:00 -
[197] - Quote
Celeste Taylor wrote:Drachiel wrote:[quote=No Alibi] Dual training
$19.95 per month Cannot use both characters at once
Second Account
$15 per month Can use both characters at once
Not only is a second account cheaper, it's also outright better.
45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box. Don't get me wrong here, I love having two accounts to alt tab between but I don't find much benefits from more than two since my system gets sluggish and there is rarely a reason why I would have both my accounts idle. Plus I prefer spending 2 PLEX a month for my 6 characters over 6 PLEX a month for six accounts. My accounts have 3 characters that I use and if I want to train one of my alts for a month my options are to either pause my main, or to start a new account (1 PLEX) transfer my alt (2 PLEX) for a total of 3 PLEX and an additional PLEX a month every month or transfer it back after a month (2 PLEX) for a total of 5 PLEX! I prefer just paying 1 PLEX to add an additional 1-2m SP to my preexisting alts which occurs especially when new skills or ships are introduced. This feature isn't for everyone, but it is a great option for people in this situation who have three characters on an account that they use.
While I like the idea, I think the cost is at the level of SCAMing us for money. Come one, to enable a feature like training does not cost $15 bucks a month. I will continue to have my multiple accounts.
This does not seem like a fair pricing scheme. Come on, we should at least get 2X the plex time.
This will be of great advantages to the big corps and alliance that Farm Worm holes and POS incomes that already play for free. They will just funnel more of their isk in to training toons, which will allow them to make more money and raise the cost of plex's
Good idea, bad for the small time player like me |
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
43
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 04:33:00 -
[198] - Quote
Can I have CCPs babies? I am a guy but I'll figure something out . Kidding aside, I love this idea, makes my life a heck of a lot easier. I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart. |
Desmont McCallock
298
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 06:36:00 -
[199] - Quote
Chribba wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Chribba wrote:Should be interesting but I don't really see the point as it's basically the same as having two accounts? You know, there's a lot of people I expect this from, but not you. You're smarter than this. I don't think it's a bad thing, and there's views that have indeed made me go ahh from the way I play the game that I didn't think about before when people show their support for dual training. But I realize that is because the way I viewed it so I'm glad I got to get your views since some of them are nothing I ever thought about Although it would make it maybe a bit easier to not having to log on so many different accounts... if only there was a way to log off to character select... Thank you! /c I too support this (log off to character select) |
Lady Gwendolyn Antollare
Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 12:24:00 -
[200] - Quote
Ok, so I'll ask the question....Why can't I train all the toons on my account at the same time for free?
CCP gives me the ability to have 3 toons as part of my subscription, so why not give me a true subscription and let me train my toons all at the same time?
Is everyone so blind as to see this will not affect CCP's bottomline? I still can't use all 3 at the same time so if I need an alt on while I'm logged in I still have get a second account.
Nice idea for CCP. Perhaps not so nice for the players.
One woman's thoughts Nerfing Hisec has never fixed Losec or Nullsec |
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ALI Virgo
Str8ngeBrew RAZOR Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 13:43:00 -
[201] - Quote
why not have 2 x skill speed or duel skill training on one charter instead. You would sell a lot more plex and reach wider people then just alt training. Most alts are just super holder or pi cyno market alts. Bring back speed up training but for plex. To speed up training may encourage people away from +5 and risk more pvp with just an extra plex per month. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14751
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 20:16:00 -
[202] - Quote
Oh my, there are people who think this should be cheaper or even free. I didn't see that coming.
I do see this filling a need in certain circumstances and think it's a good move. But it should NOT be cheaper than subs, no matter what the restrictions. Do like it, don't use it.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 22:53:00 -
[203] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Oh my, there are people who think this should be cheaper or even free. I didn't see that coming. I do see this filling a need in certain circumstances and think it's a good move. But it should NOT be cheaper than subs, no matter what the restrictions. Do like it, don't use it.
You tard. "Do like it, don't use it." ??? But the plex prices will go up because of this change, no matter if anyone use it or dont. This is just the plex manipulation and dont forget the monthly fee value is cheaper than plex prices.
Again just for you:
"[quote=No Alibi] Dual training $19.95 per month Cannot use both characters at once
Second Account
$15 per month Can use both characters at once Not only is a second account cheaper, it's also outright better. 45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box."
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7905
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 00:11:00 -
[204] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote:Oh, man. "Do like it, don't use it." ??? But the plex prices will go up because of this change, no matter if anyone use it or dont. You'll have more people training secondary characters on their accounts, but at the same time, you'll have less character transfers between accounts owned by the same player. Another possible result is less demand for sub-10M SP utility characters on the character market, since such characters will easily be trained on extra character slots without the need for a second account and eventual transfer.
This is just cursory speculation, of course. mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
134
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 04:19:00 -
[205] - Quote
Not really sure how this is better than starting a new account, infact it's flat out worse. Costs the same, but you can't log in simultaneously.
Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
Pigdaddy Ordahll
Evil Brewery Company
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 04:23:00 -
[206] - Quote
New player here and totally loving eve so far. But gotta say this just feels like a massive ripoff. Don't get me wrong I'm stoked about the dual training (am currently training up a trial acc to go sub) on 1 acc, makes it more convenient for sure, but costing 1 plex ($20) per month ON TOP of the sub fee.... c'mon.. really!!.
Yes i'm aware you can get plex for free via isk in game but many of us simply don't have those kind of resources or time. I implore/beg/ask CCP to seriously rethink this "costing" structure and make it more like 1 plex for every 3/4/6 months. Especially given since no game time is being added.
Thanks for listening to a newbs concerns. |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 07:25:00 -
[207] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote: 45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box."
That has the potencial for weird situations, where your account is out of supscription, but still in training.
Anyway, I too think this is a useless feature - I won't pay a plex just to train another char - that's why I'm having alts.
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5122
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 08:15:00 -
[208] - Quote
Akturous wrote:Not really sure how this is better than starting a new account, infact it's flat out worse. Costs the same, but you can't log in simultaneously.
How many ******* times do we have to say it? Alt: You train that character for one month, and use it, but you still have to pay for successive months that you use it, in addition to paying for your main account. Dual training: You pay to train your character for one month in addition to the subscription fee, but for successive months you pay only the subscription fee for one account. You can use both characters, just not at the same time. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Pigdaddy Ordahll
Evil Brewery Company
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 09:34:00 -
[209] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Akturous wrote:Not really sure how this is better than starting a new account, infact it's flat out worse. Costs the same, but you can't log in simultaneously.
How many ******* times do we have to say it? Alt: You train that character for one month, and use it, but you still have to pay for successive months that you use it, in addition to paying for your main account. Dual training: You pay to train your character for one month in addition to the subscription fee, but for successive months you pay only the subscription fee for one account. You can use both characters, just not at the same time.
Problem being is mate is how many months is your alt gonna be in training for?.. which means 1 plex per month.
Say I want to lvl up a basic indy alt, ind/research/PI/hauler/mining etc etc and not even min/max
Let's say that ALL up it's gonna take 180 days (which is a pretty fair and somewhat accurate assumption, especially if you plug it all into evemon).. that's 6 months.. 6 plex's... 6 x $20....... $120.. JUST TO TRAIN A TOON!!!!.. and yes loosing the ability to multibox.. atleast with having 2 acc's you have the ability to multi box and doing it @ $15 per month.
Dual training in it's present form is only for those with large amounts of either real life disposable income or ingame isk and is fundamentally flawed.
But as many will say.. don't like it don't use it. I for one will not be using it, in it's present form. |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
134
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 09:35:00 -
[210] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Akturous wrote:Not really sure how this is better than starting a new account, infact it's flat out worse. Costs the same, but you can't log in simultaneously.
How many ******* times do we have to say it? Alt: You train that character for one month, and use it, but you still have to pay for successive months that you use it, in addition to paying for your main account. Dual training: You pay to train your character for one month in addition to the subscription fee, but for successive months you pay only the subscription fee for one account. You can use both characters, just not at the same time.
Surely it's worth the transfer fee if you're going to stop training the account after 6 months say to have the extra scout, cyno, etc handy.
It's a rip off, we'll put it that way, but luckily I can vote with my wallet. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
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Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 10:04:00 -
[211] - Quote
I like the idea, but I'm sorry, this is REALLY expensive. Doesn't anyone else see this? This feature has no use in the game, I'm sad to see development time was wasted on it.
Quick math: 1 account + 1 PLEX 34.90
2 accounts: 29.90
You are paying 5e more a month, just to have this alt there training there (you can't play both at the same time). Unless your training is less than 4 months, you can just use 2 accounts and then transfer the character. Not to mention that if you have 2x6moth subs, you are only at 23.90, which means that the single account feature will literally cost more than running 2 accounts, and paying a transfer after only 2 months!?
Who in their right mind, would pay for this feature?? The only way this could be justified was if the price represented the value you get. Right now this functionality is just so overpriced.
I'm paying almost double (11.95 vs 19.95) for a feature to use an alt, and I can't even log in both at the same time? Yea no thanks. I'll just keep paying 2 accounts, save TONS of money and be able to log in both at the same time. |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 13:34:00 -
[212] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Akturous wrote:Not really sure how this is better than starting a new account, infact it's flat out worse. Costs the same, but you can't log in simultaneously.
How many ******* times do we have to say it? Alt: You train that character for one month, and use it, but you still have to pay for successive months that you use it, in addition to paying for your main account. Dual training: You pay to train your character for one month in addition to the subscription fee, but for successive months you pay only the subscription fee for one account. You can use both characters, just not at the same time.
Man use ur brain. "How many ******* times do we have to say it?" You can use the alt from another account too without subscription fee (from plex) or you can use from real cash which is much better because that just 15$ and not almos 20$, and u can use it the accounts same time with other one too. So the second account give to you an advantage. So, the dual training on one account maybe should be cheaper, because is worsen than the other choice which give to you an abilty to use it same time with other accounts. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14751
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 14:28:00 -
[213] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote:Mag's wrote:Oh my, there are people who think this should be cheaper or even free. I didn't see that coming. I do see this filling a need in certain circumstances and think it's a good move. But it should NOT be cheaper than subs, no matter what the restrictions. Do like it, don't use it. Oh, man. "Do like it, don't use it." ??? But the plex prices will go up because of this change, no matter if anyone use it or dont. This is just the plex manipulation and dont forget the monthly fee value is cheaper than plex prices. This will be incease the market plex prices, at least +100-150m instantly after changes. So this is just an another isk sink trick without any real advantages. Again just for you: "[quote=No Alibi] Dual training $19.95 per month Cannot use both characters at once Second Account $15 per month Can use both characters at once Not only is a second account cheaper, it's also outright better. 45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box." So what if Plex prices change? That's the market for you and prices change often.
I predicted a while ago that people would want this for less, but sorry no. You don't get to train another char for less money. If you are upset about not being able to use it, then get a second account.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
315
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 14:58:00 -
[214] - Quote
I think a lot of people are missing the point of this game mechanic addition. This is not to create a second whole character, but to train a support alt without having to sacrifice the mains training time.
Train your main while you also creating those destroyer ganking alts that ccp is fond of. Train your main while you make that perfect mining alt. Train your main while you get perfect PI on your other two characters Train your main while you make that freighter alt on the pvp toons account.
This added training option is not to create a second character you play like a main. The price of plex is not al that relevant, this isn't supposed to be like a subscription, I'm sure that there will be some who act that way but its really just so you can train your two other characters to fly stealthbombers for null roams, destroyers for hisec ganks, or industrials and PI.
I am guessing that the CCP intended time frame for use would be about three months on any particular account. and not longer then that. This is not a second subscription, this is not a second main character. Complaining about it in such terms is dumb.
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3371
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 19:30:00 -
[215] - Quote
I am excited by the potential for a future of account management where we have an account that is free to play, but pay per month for training queues, each of which will allow skills to be queued for any of the characters on the account that do not have skills already queued. I wonder if this future will include paying for multiple concurrent logins too (each login slot allowing me to log in any inactive character). Then I can simply activate the number of logins I need separately to my multiple training queues. No sense in maintaining three logins to run nine station trading alts, after all :) Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 21:19:00 -
[216] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:I think a lot of people are missing the point of this game mechanic addition. This is not to create a second whole character, but to train a support alt without having to sacrifice the mains training time.
Train your main while you also creating those destroyer ganking alts that ccp is fond of. Train your main while you make that perfect mining alt. Train your main while you get perfect PI on your other two characters Train your main while you make that freighter alt on the pvp toons account.
This added training option is not to create a second character you play like a main. The price of plex is not al that relevant, this isn't supposed to be like a subscription, I'm sure that there will be some who act that way but its really just so you can train your two other characters to fly stealthbombers for null roams, destroyers for hisec ganks, or industrials and PI.
I am guessing that the CCP intended time frame for use would be about three months on any particular account. and not longer then that. This is not a second subscription, this is not a second main character. Complaining about it in such terms is dumb.
Idiotism.
"Train your main while you also creating those destroyer ganking alts that ccp is fond of. Train your main while you make that perfect mining alt. Train your main while you get perfect PI on your other two characters Train your main while you make that freighter alt on the pvp toons account. "
Those options u cant do on another account ? Yes u can, and get an advantage to log on anytime when your main is online too. and you get those options on your second account for cheaper. This is just an another ISK sink with plex price manipulation. |
Firnas
The Nintendo Generation
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 22:44:00 -
[217] - Quote
This essentially saves no money except the potential character transfer fee at the end for someone who trains alts and then consolidates them.
In fact, you can't save as much as you could if you were planning on having a long term alt and wanted to pay more than monthly.
Unless there is a discount, if one plex = one month, I don't really see how this is anything other than a bit of flexibility at the expense of even more expensive alts.
Unimpressed. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
315
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 22:52:00 -
[218] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote: Idiotism.
"Train your main while you also creating those destroyer ganking alts that ccp is fond of. Train your main while you make that perfect mining alt. Train your main while you get perfect PI on your other two characters Train your main while you make that freighter alt on the pvp toons account. "
Those options u cant do on another account ? Yes u can, and get an advantage to log on anytime when your main is online too. and you get those options on your second account for cheaper. This is just an another ISK sink with plex price manipulation.
/sigh.
Kusum Fawn wrote: I think a lot of people are missing the point of this game mechanic addition. This is not to create a second whole character, but to train a support alt without having to sacrifice the mains training time.
I am guessing that the CCP intended time frame for use would be about three months on any particular account. and not longer then that. This is not a second subscription, this is not a second main character. Complaining about it in such terms is dumb.
There are benefits to having multiple trained characters on the same account. There are benefits to not having to pay for multiple accounts. Dont get stupid and talk about how plexing an account isn't paying we both know its a form of payment.
A second account must be continually plexed, a secondary trained character does not thats the difference and its a fairly big one. If you feel the need to have a continually training second character then it is pretty obvious that this is not directly aimed at you. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
Giribaldi
Relentless Force That Escalated Quickly
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:17:00 -
[219] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:TravelBuoy wrote: Idiotism.
"Train your main while you also creating those destroyer ganking alts that ccp is fond of. Train your main while you make that perfect mining alt. Train your main while you get perfect PI on your other two characters Train your main while you make that freighter alt on the pvp toons account. "
Those options u cant do on another account ? Yes u can, and get an advantage to log on anytime when your main is online too. and you get those options on your second account for cheaper. This is just an another ISK sink with plex price manipulation.
/sigh. Kusum Fawn wrote: I think a lot of people are missing the point of this game mechanic addition. This is not to create a second whole character, but to train a support alt without having to sacrifice the mains training time.
I am guessing that the CCP intended time frame for use would be about three months on any particular account. and not longer then that. This is not a second subscription, this is not a second main character. Complaining about it in such terms is dumb.
There are benefits to having multiple trained characters on the same account. There are benefits to not having to pay for multiple accounts. Dont get stupid and talk about how plexing an account isn't paying we both know its a form of payment. A second account must be continually plexed, a secondary trained character does not thats the difference and its a fairly big one. If you feel the need to have a continually training second character then it is pretty obvious that this is not directly aimed at you.
Were not saying that,, Were simply saying that AS oF RIGHT NOW... let me put it into NUMBERS for u to udnerstand...
Character Transfer Fee $20 USD Account Sub Fee $15 USD Dual Character Training $20 USD ~ 1 PLEX
with this math if u are using Dual Training for more then a 3 MONTHS u are actually SPENDING 5$ less on eve then you would on just training on a 2nd acount and then paying the transfer fee.
Example:
2 Accounts, 3 months of 1 month Sub fee 45$ x (times) 2 (2 accounts) = 90$ + transfer fee onto Main account 20$ = 110$
1 Account, 3 months of 1 month Sub fee 45$ + Dual train Fee for 3 months $60 = $105
Now then if you have a toon ALREADY on ur account and he just needs LESS THEN 3 months of training BY ALLLL MEANS please do it with dual training at cost of 3 plex's.. but if ur going 2 spend more then 3 months training on a toon that's just going to sit on ur main for use of researching manufacturing mining WH sitter ECT!!!!!!! (list goes on) then PLEASE go the cheap router and get a 2nd account... THAT is what everyone is ARGUING... its useless if it needs 2 be trained for 3+ months (which MOST toons need 2 be in order 2 do something..
|
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 00:55:00 -
[220] - Quote
Giribaldi wrote:Kusum Fawn wrote:TravelBuoy wrote: Idiotism.
"Train your main while you also creating those destroyer ganking alts that ccp is fond of. Train your main while you make that perfect mining alt. Train your main while you get perfect PI on your other two characters Train your main while you make that freighter alt on the pvp toons account. "
Those options u cant do on another account ? Yes u can, and get an advantage to log on anytime when your main is online too. and you get those options on your second account for cheaper. This is just an another ISK sink with plex price manipulation.
/sigh. Kusum Fawn wrote: I think a lot of people are missing the point of this game mechanic addition. This is not to create a second whole character, but to train a support alt without having to sacrifice the mains training time.
I am guessing that the CCP intended time frame for use would be about three months on any particular account. and not longer then that. This is not a second subscription, this is not a second main character. Complaining about it in such terms is dumb.
There are benefits to having multiple trained characters on the same account. There are benefits to not having to pay for multiple accounts. Dont get stupid and talk about how plexing an account isn't paying we both know its a form of payment. A second account must be continually plexed, a secondary trained character does not thats the difference and its a fairly big one. If you feel the need to have a continually training second character then it is pretty obvious that this is not directly aimed at you. Were not saying that,, Were simply saying that AS oF RIGHT NOW... let me put it into NUMBERS for u to udnerstand... Character Transfer Fee $20 USD Account Sub Fee $15 USD Dual Character Training $20 USD ~ 1 PLEX with this math if u are using Dual Training for more then a 3 MONTHS u are actually SPENDING 5$ less on eve then you would on just training on a 2nd acount and then paying the transfer fee. Example: 2 Accounts, 3 months of 1 month Sub fee 45$ x (times) 2 (2 accounts) = 90$ + transfer fee onto Main account 20$ = 110$ 1 Account, 3 months of 1 month Sub fee 45$ + Dual train Fee for 3 months $60 = $105 Now then if you have a toon ALREADY on ur account and he just needs LESS THEN 3 months of training BY ALLLL MEANS please do it with dual training at cost of 3 plex's.. but if ur going 2 spend more then 3 months training on a toon that's just going to sit on ur main for use of researching manufacturing mining WH sitter ECT!!!!!!! (list goes on) then PLEASE go the cheap router and get a 2nd account... THAT is what everyone is ARGUING... its useless if it needs 2 be trained for 3+ months (which MOST toons need 2 be in order 2 do something..
Forget it she is an idiot and cant calculate those numbers. And we dont speak the another problems. For the PLEX ISK prices. They told, thats irrevelant. Really ? When the players can use PLEX on main account too? When they can use for character transfer ? When they can convert to Aurum ? When they can perform Character Resculpt with PLEX ?
And the separated account much better with cheaper prices and advantage for log on with same time, just a tard cant understand this. Not need a character on same account, if someone just want to train it, because they cant log in with same time. Dont give any advantages an alt on same account with main, just if thats cheaper than the other account option. And other thing, who will use an dual training,he need everytime synchronise the PLEX date, with main character or the dual training go to off mode, when the first plex time is over. |
|
Krops Vont
Hard Knocks Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 01:26:00 -
[221] - Quote
Consider when you add the 2nd plex, it enables the dual character training and adds more days? |
Giribaldi
Relentless Force That Escalated Quickly
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 05:34:00 -
[222] - Quote
DOn't get me wrong forum im in no way saying that the DEV's and the Gm's arent doing there job very well.. QUite hte opposite, we dont give them credit when credit is do they are WILDLY over worked and simply cant DIVE deep inside things to see everything so they rely on US as there loyal customers and reader's to help them see the things they miss... BUT when u have idiots who have the time and simple chose not to READ into it and do some basic math... its stupid for them to even offer a IDEA or an Opinion! when they are do F!&@ lazy to use there brain a bit and read what ACTUALLY is going on...
P.S. I LOVE CCP FOZZIE and a few other GM's POWER TO THE GM's!!!! (Just not to much i dont wanna shoot at one and get my mods turned off... rofl) |
Highauger's animated corpse
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 06:19:00 -
[223] - Quote
No it's not better than two accounts.
No it's not better than 10 playable toons on one super-account.
Yes it is still a very nice addition. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5131
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 06:52:00 -
[224] - Quote
Giribaldi wrote:Kusum Fawn wrote:TravelBuoy wrote: Idiotism.
"Train your main while you also creating those destroyer ganking alts that ccp is fond of. Train your main while you make that perfect mining alt. Train your main while you get perfect PI on your other two characters Train your main while you make that freighter alt on the pvp toons account. "
Those options u cant do on another account ? Yes u can, and get an advantage to log on anytime when your main is online too. and you get those options on your second account for cheaper. This is just an another ISK sink with plex price manipulation.
/sigh. Kusum Fawn wrote: I think a lot of people are missing the point of this game mechanic addition. This is not to create a second whole character, but to train a support alt without having to sacrifice the mains training time.
I am guessing that the CCP intended time frame for use would be about three months on any particular account. and not longer then that. This is not a second subscription, this is not a second main character. Complaining about it in such terms is dumb.
There are benefits to having multiple trained characters on the same account. There are benefits to not having to pay for multiple accounts. Dont get stupid and talk about how plexing an account isn't paying we both know its a form of payment. A second account must be continually plexed, a secondary trained character does not thats the difference and its a fairly big one. If you feel the need to have a continually training second character then it is pretty obvious that this is not directly aimed at you. Were not saying that,, Were simply saying that AS oF RIGHT NOW... let me put it into NUMBERS for u to udnerstand... Character Transfer Fee $20 USD Account Sub Fee $15 USD Dual Character Training $20 USD ~ 1 PLEX with this math if u are using Dual Training for more then a 3 MONTHS u are actually SPENDING 5$ less on eve then you would on just training on a 2nd acount and then paying the transfer fee. Example: 2 Accounts, 3 months of 1 month Sub fee 45$ x (times) 2 (2 accounts) = 90$ + transfer fee onto Main account 20$ = 110$ 1 Account, 3 months of 1 month Sub fee 45$ + Dual train Fee for 3 months $60 = $105 Now then if you have a toon ALREADY on ur account and he just needs LESS THEN 3 months of training BY ALLLL MEANS please do it with dual training at cost of 3 plex's.. but if ur going 2 spend more then 3 months training on a toon that's just going to sit on ur main for use of researching manufacturing mining WH sitter ECT!!!!!!! (list goes on) then PLEASE go the cheap router and get a 2nd account... THAT is what everyone is ARGUING... its useless if it needs 2 be trained for 3+ months (which MOST toons need 2 be in order 2 do something.. You're of course forgetting that if someone doesn't want to pay in cash for the transfer fees or for account subscriptions, they use PLEX.
2 accounts: x months of 1 month sub * 2 = 2x plex + 2 plex transfer fee = 2x + 2 plex 1 acct dual: x months of 1 month sub + x months of dual training on that acct = 2x plex
No matter how long you're training for, as long as what you want is an alt that will eventually stop training and will not need to be online at the same time as another character on that account, the dual training will always be the cheaper option if you pay for everything by PLEX. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep Nyratic
292
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 07:03:00 -
[225] - Quote
I really don't understand why so many people are getting so worked up about an optional function that isn't getting forced down your throat in any way. If you don't like it, don't use it.
Yes it may not be cheaper than just having two accounts or as functional (can't log in at the same time, have to keep paying PLEX to train the second character), but here is where the usefulness that I can see comes into it:
At the moment, I have one account subbed with one character running (this character). I do have 3 additional accounts, none of them subbed at the moment as I have no need for those characters and I don't multibox. This change will be useful for me to transfer one of my other characters to this account, do some training for PI, market stuff or hauling, then use it for passive income after the training is complete. So where I would have previously needed to pay for 2 accounts then transfer, I can do it all on one account (sounds better to the wife than two accounts) and then I need not ever pay again.
If you find that using two accounts works for you, then do it. But don't come and complain that a simple quality of life change that you don't HAVE to use is bad, when there are plenty of people out there who will use it. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose." I play in highsec. |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:18:00 -
[226] - Quote
dark heartt wrote:I really don't understand why so many people are getting so worked up about an optional function that isn't getting forced down your throat in any way. "If you don't like it, don't use it."
And the PLEX ISK prices wont change when dont use it ? Your logic is failed here.
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Haedris Gost
Daader-Gost Mining Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:25:00 -
[227] - Quote
After reading the blog, I have this to comment;
The feature seems like a great idea on the surface, but the real problem lies in functionality: The Dual Training on the account doesn't add the functionality of having two characters able to interact during missions or on mining expeditions or when breaking down a complex with one character and salvaging the wrecks with the character on the second account...
Has there been any discussion about allowing the second "activated" character performing in a newly spawned window?
Right now people running two clients on the same computer have to (ALT+TAB) to go to the second client - logged into a separate account - (the second instance of the eve game running in the background) to perform any actions with the second character, but they are both capable of doing things with each other at the same time, so I'd suggest doubling the training time given just to be fair to the people who are paying for the training with a full month's game time.
Thanks for reading!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9456
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 10:37:00 -
[228] - Quote
Haedris Gost wrote:After reading the blog, I have this to comment;
The feature seems like a great idea on the surface, but the real problem lies in functionality: The Dual Training on the account doesn't add the functionality of having two characters able to interact during missions or on mining expeditions or when breaking down a complex with one character and salvaging the wrecks with the character on the second account...
Has there been any discussion about allowing the second "activated" character performing in a newly spawned window?
Right now people running two clients on the same computer have to (ALT+TAB) to go to the second client - logged into a separate account - (the second instance of the eve game running in the background) to perform any actions with the second character, but they are both capable of doing things with each other at the same time, so I'd suggest doubling the training time given just to be fair to the people who are paying for the training with a full month's game time.
Thanks for reading!
(and wow, sounds like a lot of other people have had the same thoughts on this.)
The functionality you are asking about is provided by running a second acount instead.
Let's try this one more time:
This is a supplemental feature in addition to being able to run a second account. It is intended for limited-skillpoint alts for whom it isn't worth paying for a second account to maintain. All accounts have 3 character slots for this exact reason.
If you need the extra utility of being able to log the alt in at the same time as your main, you pay for a second account. 1 account = 1 login
If you don't need that utility for the alt in question (cyno alt, hauler alt, market alt, PI alt, FW alt, etc etc etc), then you can just buy the skill training time to the amount you require and not have to keep on paying for an extra account once you've skill the alt up as much as is needed.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9456
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 10:43:00 -
[229] - Quote
Firnas wrote:This essentially saves no money except the potential character transfer fee at the end for someone who trains alts and then consolidates them.
In fact, you can't save as much as you could if you were planning on having a long term alt and wanted to pay more than monthly.
Unless there is a discount, if one plex = one month, I don't really see how this is anything other than a bit of flexibility at the expense of even more expensive alts.
Unimpressed.
If you only need 1 month's training for the alt, then it's cheaper.
1 Kings 12:11
|
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
163
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:58:00 -
[230] - Quote
I'm really not understanding the complaints. This is a great, flexible feature. I already have multiple accounts. Each account has a couple of alts on it who are low SP and tightly focused. They are basically cyno pilots and POS gunner/hauler alts. I trained them on one of the other accounts years ago and transferred them. Now I have the option to make them covert cyno pilots and transport ship pilots without stopping my main characters from training and without starting yet another account and paying more transfer fees. It's a great feature for an established player. |
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Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
316
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:15:00 -
[231] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote:Giribaldi wrote:Kusum Fawn wrote: I think a lot of people are missing the point of this game mechanic addition. This is not to create a second whole character, but to train a support alt without having to sacrifice the mains training time.
I am guessing that the CCP intended time frame for use would be about three months on any particular account. and not longer then that. This is not a second subscription, this is not a second main character. Complaining about it in such terms is dumb. ~ There are benefits to having multiple trained characters on the same account. There are benefits to not having to pay for multiple accounts. Dont get stupid and talk about how plexing an account isn't paying we both know its a form of payment.
A second account must be continually plexed, a secondary trained character does not thats the difference and its a fairly big one. If you feel the need to have a continually training second character then it is pretty obvious that this is not directly aimed at you.
Were not saying that,, Were simply saying that AS oF RIGHT NOW... let me put it into NUMBERS for u to udnerstand... Character Transfer Fee $20 USD Account Sub Fee $15 USD Dual Character Training $20 USD ~ 1 PLEX with this math if u are using Dual Training for more then a 3 MONTHS u are actually SPENDING 5$ less on eve then you would on just training on a 2nd acount and then paying the transfer fee. Example: 2 Accounts, 3 months of 1 month Sub fee 45$ x (times) 2 (2 accounts) = 90$ + transfer fee onto Main account 20$ = 110$ 1 Account, 3 months of 1 month Sub fee 45$ + Dual train Fee for 3 months $60 = $105 Now then if you have a toon ALREADY on ur account and he just needs LESS THEN 3 months of training BY ALLLL MEANS please do it with dual training at cost of 3 plex's.. but if ur going 2 spend more then 3 months training on a toon that's just going to sit on ur main for use of researching manufacturing mining WH sitter ECT!!!!!!! (list goes on) then PLEASE go the cheap router and get a 2nd account... THAT is what everyone is ARGUING... its useless if it needs 2 be trained for 3+ months (which MOST toons need 2 be in order 2 do something.. Forget it she is an idiot and cant calculate those numbers. And we dont speak the another problems. For the PLEX ISK prices. They told, thats irrevelant. Really ? When the players can use PLEX on main account too? When they can use for character transfer ? When they can convert to Aurum ? When they can perform Character Resculpt with PLEX ? And the separated account much better with cheaper prices and advantage for log on with same time, just a tard cant understand this. Not need a character on same account, if someone just want to train it, because they cant log in with same time. Dont give any advantages an alt on same account with main, just if thats cheaper than the other account option. And other thing, who will use an dual training,he need everytime synchronise the PLEX date, with main character or the dual training go to off mode, when the first plex time is over.
~Giribaldi Thank you for helping me prove my point, the break is at three months per character kinda like what i said in my first post. If i were to need only a months training between the two of the spare characters it would be cheaper for me to spend two plex and train those two characters for one month each then to attempt some second and third account trading. Also remember that you are not creating whole characters, they do not have to fly battleships, nor use t2 turrets, they are alts for specific purposes. Most alts need around three weeks of training to do their specific role well.
~TravelBuoy Did you even read the post you quoted to try to attack me? I would think that the part of my first post which you've quoted a fair bit now, would have clued you into the time frames that (i am guessing) this game mechanic addition would be intended.
Plex-isk prices are irrelevant. Someone else (perhaps you) are purchasing and selling plex for me to train my alts with. The price change in plex-isk will determine only if i keep the second / third accounts open. and not the one or two time shot of a months training on an alt. Did the character resculpt bump plex prices? I hadn't noticed.
I would also be paying for a second or third account using plex so the price is nominally the same for me. except one place where i dont have to put any actual cash down Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:58:00 -
[232] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Did you even read the post you quoted to try to attack me? I would think that the part of my first post which you've quoted a fair bit now, would have clued you into the time frames that (i am guessing) this game mechanic addition would be intended.
Plex-isk prices are irrelevant. Someone else (perhaps you) are purchasing and selling plex for me to train my alts with. The price change in plex-isk will determine only if i keep the second / third accounts open. and not the one or two time shot of a months training on an alt. Did the character resculpt bump plex prices? I hadn't noticed.
I would also be paying for a second or third account using plex so the price is nominally the same for me. except one place where i dont have to put any actual cash down
first u need to use ur brain. Irrevelant ? this is ur first idiotism. You think about the plex using just for alt. Your thinks is fail. The plex useable for main charater too, for transfer (2x plex) etc. No resculpt ??? its time fir u to learn something http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/30_Day_Pilot's_License_Extension
And again the alt on same account on main, dont give any advantages, but more expensive and dont give to availabilty for the user to log on same time with the main account.
14.99 vs 19.99 and the first option not just cheaper but give more advantages, because can log on with same time with main. And the plex prices not irrevelant because many player playing with PLEX option and active parts of the Eve economy. So, really nor irrevelant the PLEX prices is how much costs.
|
Tommy Nash
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:26:00 -
[233] - Quote
I dont understand whats the problem with this. Its a feature that will give flexibility. I dont find useful or reasonable to create an extra account and pay each month for a hi-sec hauler or a trader. My main char lost some days of skill queue so that I can have a trader alt in that same account. Now i will be able to upgrade my alt for the price of a PLEX and my main will not suffer for it.
I also have another account for perfect industrialist and this time, yes, its usefull to have the extra account.
About the massive creation of alts with passive income skills... it will not have a great impact since CCP is planning to reduce all sources of passive income as far as I know.
About the PLEX prices, I find there are other factors with a higher impact than this feature like the power of 2 offer or the comming alliance tournament.
Only problem I see is that this feature is comming with power of 2 and the tournamet, PLEX prices are going to rise a lot and then... as always it will get in balance.
|
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
152
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 14:55:00 -
[234] - Quote
Haedris Gost wrote:After reading the blog, I have this to comment;
Right now people running two clients on the same computer have to (ALT+TAB) to go to the second client - logged into a separate account - (the second instance of the eve game running in the background) to perform any actions with the second character, but they are both capable of doing things with each other at the same time,
First off who says people do this. You might but not all.
If you use multiple clients & don't put each client in window mode, then you are doing it wrong.
I have 4 monitors for my clients, so each monitor has its own client in window mode for it. I never ever, ever had to use (Alt+tab). R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
319
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 16:37:00 -
[235] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote:first u need to use ur brain. Irrevelant ? this is ur first idiotism. You think about the plex using just for alt. Your thinks is fail. The plex useable for main charater too, for transfer (2x plex) etc. No resculpt ??? its time fir u to learn something http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/30_Day_Pilot's_License_ExtensionAnd again the alt on same account on main, dont give any advantages, but more expensive and dont give to availabilty for the user to log on same time with the main account. 14.99 vs 19.99 and the first option not just cheaper but give more advantages, because can log on with same time with main. And the plex prices not irrevelant because many player playing with PLEX option and active parts of the Eve economy. So, really nor irrevelant the PLEX prices is how much costs.
have you thought about this for one month? have you thought about this for two months? have you thought about this for two characters?
I think I am still missing the point you cant quite seem to articulate. Perhaps if you were to take a moment and think about what it is you would like to say, you could write something intelligible. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14753
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 16:50:00 -
[236] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote:Kusum Fawn wrote:Did you even read the post you quoted to try to attack me? I would think that the part of my first post which you've quoted a fair bit now, would have clued you into the time frames that (i am guessing) this game mechanic addition would be intended.
Plex-isk prices are irrelevant. Someone else (perhaps you) are purchasing and selling plex for me to train my alts with. The price change in plex-isk will determine only if i keep the second / third accounts open. and not the one or two time shot of a months training on an alt. Did the character resculpt bump plex prices? I hadn't noticed.
I would also be paying for a second or third account using plex so the price is nominally the same for me. except one place where i dont have to put any actual cash down first u need to use ur brain. Irrevelant ? this is ur first idiotism. You think about the plex using just for alt. Your thinks is fail. The plex useable for main charater too, for transfer (2x plex) etc. No resculpt ??? its time fir u to learn something http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/30_Day_Pilot's_License_ExtensionAnd again the alt on same account on main, dont give any advantages, but more expensive and dont give to availabilty for the user to log on same time with the main account. 14.99 vs 19.99 and the first option not just cheaper but give more advantages, because can log on with same time with main. And the plex prices not irrevelant because many player playing with PLEX option and active parts of the Eve economy. So, really nor irrevelant the PLEX prices is how much costs. You're pretty quick with the personal attacks.
It's all rather simple.
[*Want to use both chars at the same time? Then get a second account.
- Want to train an alt on the same account as your main? Then use the new system.
No one is forcing you to use the new system. Plex prices for ISK will rise and fall, even without this system in place. But as a market, this has always and will always been the case. Supply and demand. The Plex will continue to be used for other services and systems in the future.
No one is forcing you to use the new system. It works for certain player types and small training situations. You are still training a char and because it's on the same account as your main, doesn't mean it should automatically be cheaper. Guess what, it's not.
Love the tears though.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
ISquishWorms
210
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:51:00 -
[237] - Quote
I like flexability, therefore I like this feature thank you CCP for implementing it. . |
Robert Hyde
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:10:00 -
[238] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Roajax wrote:Go the full distance.... Increase the number of toons per account to at least 9. Allow us to login multiple characters at once.
IE: If I'm paying 2 plex's per month I should be able to login 2 toons on that account. Nothing worse than trying to make the right combo of pilots + cynos work when there are ridiculous account restrictions. IE: toon1 on account#1 with cyno. toon #2 on account #2 with carrier. toon #3 on account #1 with jump freighter. See the problem? Would be a ton easier if I could just whichever 2 toons I need. This is a HUGE task. Really big emphasis on how difficult this is. Not comparable in scope to what we had to do for this feature.
How so? Isn't only the "proxy" terminating existing connections the issue? Like this, dual training will stay the inferior alternative, considering you can't even get the 51 free days you get when refering yourself. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5131
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:23:00 -
[239] - Quote
Robert Hyde wrote:How so? Isn't only the "proxy" terminating existing connections the issue? Like this, dual training will stay the inferior alternative, considering you can't even get the 51 free days you get when refering yourself. Except that you get indefinite free use of the character after you've finished training it. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Mournful Conciousness
Special Situations TOHA Conglomerate
84
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 10:31:00 -
[240] - Quote
One of the things I love about Eve is the way it highlights the law of Unintended Consequences.
What will happen as a result of this? My prediction:
a) plex prices will spike for 2 months b) PI prices will plummet a month later
Why?
Because all WH dwellers like me will use this to train PI alts - something we should have already done but could not bring ourselves to wean our main characters off their precious skill queues.
:-)n++ |
|
VegasMirage
371
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 21:49:00 -
[241] - Quote
Lucas Peterson deserves some credit I think.
here's the original thread about this feature suggestion, as you can see many people were against it - now 12 pages of comments saying it's great (why not speak up when the topic is being discussed?).
forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203581 likes watching grown men cry-á (Gò»n+¦Gò¦,) |
Ancyker
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:14:00 -
[242] - Quote
I like this feature and have been wanting it for a while. But I see a few problems, namely:
Training a cyno alt takes less than 30 days. Training a PI alt can take less too if you go basics, or longer if you go all out. This really is going to hit PI because it allows people to go all out and regain their money. Cyno alts don't regain money (on their own, at least).
But my biggest issue with this is...
A PLEX can make a new account with 51 days of game time. A PLEX costs between $17.50-20.00 depending on which pack you get. This system games that market and tries to milk people for more money. I like the idea of training a second character, but REQUIRING an entire PLEX for something that is far less than game time is just milking your customers more and to me is insulting.
This has me flashing back to "Greed is Good". It might not be pay to win, but it is definitely greed. You're a business, you have to make money. This is true and I understand. But you'd get far more out of this if you weren't greedy and either offered more time (i.e. 1 PLEX = 45 days) or allowed payments with cash (i.e. $10/month more = additional character training).
You already charge more for other services via PLEX than cash. A character transfer costs 2 PLEX which is equal to $35 even though this service is only $20 with cash. That's fine because people paying with PLEX usually can't or don't want to pay with cash. Those that pay with cash can get it at a discounted rate compared to buying PLEX.
The game should not require purchasing PLEX with cash for anything other than selling on the market/contracts/to another player.
My Suggestion / tl;dr
Make it so we can buy it as an addon with cash, not just with PLEX. For a price between $10-15/month -and/or- make a PLEX give more than 30 days of time. Without this, it's just another insulting feature to try and get more money from us. |
Hulk Miner
SKOOKUM TUMTUM
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 16:17:00 -
[243] - Quote
Until you can log on multiple characters from the same account when loading your extra plex then it does not serve any use to most people with multiple characters who multibox.
Maybe work on the multiple login then people will start to consolidate accounts. |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
39
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 01:06:00 -
[244] - Quote
Ancyker wrote:IThis has me flashing back to "Greed is Good". It might not be pay to win, but it is definitely greed..
You're playing eve and complaining about greed? Uhh...
|
Ichi Bomb
Obtainium Inc BLack OPs Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 02:07:00 -
[245] - Quote
This dual training for PLEX idea is Bull$#!t !!! (BS)
I PAY for 3 accounts so I can train ''ALTS'' and have been for the last 7+ years.
I have a main and 2 paid so called ''ALTS'' .
CCP finally has 500,000 subscribers a month as mentioned at Fanfest 2013.
500,000 X $14.95 = $7,475,000 a MONTH CCP makes just off of EVE subscribers not to mention EVE related / trademarked products; EON Magazine, clothing, PLEX, etc....
PLEX = Ruining EVE !!!
Is $7.5M a month not enough Hilmar, Guard, Soundwave?
Remember your roots CCP, you guys were poor once too !!!
Only the ''RICH / SPOILED'' in RL players of EVE can keep up with this PLEX BS !!
I can afford 3 accounts a month but I refuse to pay $15 here and $15 there for virtual BS....
PLEX = Pilot License Extension, keep it that way!
If people want to buy PLEX aka VBS (Virtual BS) to pay for their ALTS I think that's fine.
The dual training idea and any other future ideas you have for screwing loyal EVE players out of their $ is BS!!!
Just because I don't want to pay for PLEX or don't have the time to play to pay for PLEX I can't dual train... this is not fair to a 7+ yr vet of the game, when some rich, asshat, noob, spoiled, assbag living off mommy and daddy can do it !!!
Sounds to me like CCP is running out of ideasGǪ.. I have always hated PLEX and always will. It screwed up the in game market up enough as to where CCP had to step in and intervene a market which is GÇÿGÇÖsupposedlyGÇÖGÇÖ player driven?
This is an idea that should have been released and forgotten in INCARNA.
Anyone that doesnGÇÖt like this post:
Is rich in real life and has a ton of $ for PLEX.
Has their rich parents pay for their EVE accounts.
CanGÇÖt or wonGÇÖt pay for GÇÿGÇÖREALGÇÖGÇÖ alt accounts.
DonGÇÖt understand the GÇÿGÇÖtrueGÇÖGÇÖ underlying mechanics of the market or game itself.
Wants an easy way out.
Is ignorant and thinks that every idea CCP has is GÇÿGÇÖGREATGÇÖGÇÖ. (Incarna)
Or just needs something to disagree with.
PLEX = BS and any smart EVE player can and should see that!!!
Send all the hate mails and posts you wantGǪ it just lets me know who can handle the truth and who canGÇÖt! =)
|
Arisidana
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 02:52:00 -
[246] - Quote
That's a lot of BS in your post |
Ichi Bomb
Obtainium Inc BLack OPs Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 03:11:00 -
[247] - Quote
Arisidana, an almighty 2 month old alt is the first to admit she is a Lemming of CCP and afraid of the truth.... next... |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14762
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 14:55:00 -
[248] - Quote
Ichi Bomb wrote:Arisidana, an almighty 2 month old alt is the first to admit she is a Lemming of CCP and afraid of the truth.... next... The truth is Arisidana is right, there was a lot of BS in that post.
If you don't like it, don't use it. I'll be the first to admit it has a very limited and niche appeal, but it's there all the same. But it shouldn't ever be cheaper than a sub.
Oh and lol at the Plex ruining Eve.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
746
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 17:22:00 -
[249] - Quote
So in the end:
-Does this change the interest on having more than one account? -no
-Does this change anything about toons market? -no
-Does this change anything for those who don't want to use this option?-no
-Does this change have a significant impact for players not willing to have a second account for whatever reason and actually train a character with specific skills they want for their own use? -yes
-Does this change have a negative impact on plex in game market or for CCP as company? -no
So why so much blahblahing about something you DON'T have to use, something you're NOT penalized for not using it?
Seriously people, there are far more interesting things to debate about from now on and this change is an awesome addition overall to comfort a significant number of players they're listened to, offer them options that might have an impact on the long term playing for them which is all benefit for CCP and the community.
Think at larger scale of things, not your single person.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Emcera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 12:51:00 -
[250] - Quote
Ichi Bomb wrote:This dual training for PLEX idea is Bull$#!t !!! (BS)
I PAY for 3 accounts so I can train ''ALTS'' and have been for the last 7+ years.
I have a main and 2 paid so called ''ALTS'' .
CCP finally has 500,000 subscribers a month as mentioned at Fanfest 2013.
500,000 X $14.95 = $7,475,000 a MONTH CCP makes just off of EVE subscribers not to mention EVE related / trademarked products; EON Magazine, clothing, PLEX, etc....
PLEX = Ruining EVE !!!
Is $7.5M a month not enough Hilmar, Guard, Soundwave?
Remember your roots CCP, you guys were poor once too !!!
Only the ''RICH / SPOILED'' in RL players of EVE can keep up with this PLEX BS !!
I can afford 3 accounts a month but I refuse to pay $15 here and $15 there for virtual BS....
PLEX = Pilot License Extension, keep it that way!
If people want to buy PLEX aka VBS (Virtual BS) to pay for their ALTS I think that's fine.
The dual training idea and any other future ideas you have for screwing loyal EVE players out of their $ is BS!!!
Just because I don't want to pay for PLEX or don't have the time to play to pay for PLEX I can't dual train... this is not fair to a 7+ yr vet of the game, when some rich, asshat, noob, spoiled, assbag living off mommy and daddy can do it !!!
Sounds to me like CCP is running out of ideasGǪ.. I have always hated PLEX and always will. It screwed up the in game market enough as to where CCP had to step in and intervene a market which is GÇÿGÇÖsupposedlyGÇÖGÇÖ player driven?
This is an idea that should have been released and forgotten in INCARNA.
Anyone that doesnGÇÖt like this post:
Is rich in real life and has a ton of $ for PLEX.
Has their rich parents pay for their EVE accounts.
CanGÇÖt or wonGÇÖt pay for GÇÿGÇÖREALGÇÖGÇÖ alt accounts.
DonGÇÖt understand the GÇÿGÇÖtrueGÇÖGÇÖ underlying mechanics of the market, algorithms CCP uses, or the overall game itself.
Wants an easy way out.
Is ignorant and thinks that every idea CCP has is GÇÿGÇÖGREATGÇÖGÇÖ. (Incarna)
Needs something to disagree with.
Is a noob with no clue.
PLEX = BS and any smart EVE player can and should see that!!!
Also look at all the questions related to this PLEX BS.... It's mind boggling.. Can I swap my sisters account for my brothers account if its a Friday, or is the price of tea in China cheaper on the 3rd Saturday of every month? Well what if 3 squirrels eat 6 nuts on Wednesday, can I move my :06 seconds left on my DUAL TRAINING PLEX time to my mom's sock drawer on a Tuesday?
Give me an F'in break!
If the 11 pages I read before this is mankind at it's finest, we will never invent a ''real'' star gate!!!.... LO mother f'in L.
Send all the hate mails and posts you wantGǪ it just lets me know who can handle the truth and who canGÇÖt! =)
tl;dr |
|
Tommy Nash
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 13:49:00 -
[251] - Quote
Ichi Bomb you forgot about the people who pay 0$ for playing. |
Verlaine Glariant
Amphysvena
39
|
Posted - 2013.05.26 13:52:00 -
[252] - Quote
Suddenly the "Logout to Character Selection Screen" turns even more needed than before.
I've been 7 years waiting for it. And counting... www.amphysvena.org |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
112
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 11:37:00 -
[253] - Quote
Tommy Nash wrote:Ichi Bomb you forgot about the people who pay 0$ for playing.
Every subcription costs... everyone needs to pay. Even if you don't personaly pay for the 15$ someone else pays it for you if you buyght a plex. So 500k active subcriptions does mean 500k paid subcriptions.
I yes i do like this idea and I will definetly use it every now and then to train alts to invention. |
scar4 Niminen
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 12:38:00 -
[254] - Quote
Does this mean I can have to characters on the same accoun If not I will just pay for another account |
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 03:57:00 -
[255] - Quote
scar4 Niminen wrote:Does this mean I can have to characters on the same accoun If not I will just pay for another account
I don't think you have been paying attention. You still won't be able to log own two characters on the same account at the same time. It just allows you to train two characters on the same account at the same time.
Some have already pointed out that this will have limited use. If someone wants to train up a new character for a couple of months, say for a pi alt, they will like start a new account on the buddy program and get 3 weeks of "free" trial account training then subscribe and the buddy reward. Then after a couple months of training just move that toon to there regular account. So I don't think it will be used for that much at all.
More likely is the situation where someone already has multiple tons on the same account and decide they really need just one more skill on the alt they have and decide to shell out the 500m ISK to train that up.
I don't see myself doing it much at all, but you never know.
All in all, it may be a nice option for those rare occasions, but it isn't a big deal. |
Cleksha
CT Mining and Manufacturing Redacted Limited
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 09:11:00 -
[256] - Quote
Ichi Bomb wrote:This dual training for PLEX idea is Bull$#!t !!! (BS)
I PAY for 3 accounts so I can train ''ALTS'' and have been for the last 7+ years.
I have a main and 2 paid so called ''ALTS'' .
CCP finally has 500,000 subscribers a month as mentioned at Fanfest 2013.
500,000 X $14.95 = $7,475,000 a MONTH CCP makes just off of EVE subscribers not to mention EVE related / trademarked products; EON Magazine, clothing, PLEX, etc....
PLEX = Ruining EVE !!!
Is $7.5M a month not enough Hilmar, Guard, Soundwave?
Remember your roots CCP, you guys were poor once too !!!
Only the ''RICH / SPOILED'' in RL players of EVE can keep up with this PLEX BS !!
I can afford 3 accounts a month but I refuse to pay $15 here and $15 there for virtual BS....
PLEX = Pilot License Extension, keep it that way!
If people want to buy PLEX aka VBS (Virtual BS) to pay for their ALTS I think that's fine.
The dual training idea and any other future ideas you have for screwing loyal EVE players out of their $ is BS!!!
Just because I don't want to pay for PLEX or don't have the time to play to pay for PLEX I can't dual train... this is not fair to a 7+ yr vet of the game, when some rich, asshat, noob, spoiled, assbag living off mommy and daddy can do it !!!
Sounds to me like CCP is running out of ideasGǪ.. I have always hated PLEX and always will. It screwed up the in game market enough as to where CCP had to step in and intervene a market which is GÇÿGÇÖsupposedlyGÇÖGÇÖ player driven?
This is an idea that should have been released and forgotten in INCARNA.
Anyone that doesnGÇÖt like this post:
Is rich in real life and has a ton of $ for PLEX.
Has their rich parents pay for their EVE accounts.
CanGÇÖt or wonGÇÖt pay for GÇÿGÇÖREALGÇÖGÇÖ alt accounts.
DonGÇÖt understand the GÇÿGÇÖtrueGÇÖGÇÖ underlying mechanics of the market, algorithms CCP uses, or the overall game itself.
Wants an easy way out.
Is ignorant and thinks that every idea CCP has is GÇÿGÇÖGREATGÇÖGÇÖ. (Incarna)
Needs something to disagree with.
Is a noob with no clue.
PLEX = BS and any smart EVE player can and should see that!!!
Also look at all the questions related to this PLEX BS.... It's mind boggling.. Can I swap my sisters account for my brothers account if its a Friday, or is the price of tea in China cheaper on the 3rd Saturday of every month? Well what if 3 squirrels eat 6 nuts on Wednesday, can I move my :06 seconds left on my DUAL TRAINING PLEX time to my mom's sock drawer on a Tuesday?
Give me an F'in break!
If the 11 pages I read before this is mankind at it's finest, we will never invent a ''real'' star gate!!!.... LO mother f'in L.
Send all the hate mails and posts you wantGǪ it just lets me know who can handle the truth and who canGÇÖt! =) Soo... When you Rage quit can I have your stuff? |
Theodor Giumbix
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 13:02:00 -
[257] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:
We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game.
Why not? CCP RubberBAND wrote: At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.
Well, that time should be shown too. Why not? And the players would not see it "all the time", just when their character sheet is open. Even then they would not see a time ticking down, just the expiration date and time. I'll bring this up with the team again, since a few people are asking about this in the thread, but it's basically to do with verisimilitude or what things belong/fit in game and what things belong/fit in account management pages. So far with the exception of PLEX, there is little in game which references account management and that's intentional. Showing things which are removed from the EVE universe in gameplay or narrative terms is something we have tried to avoid, but like I said we will discuss this and see if the PLEX section or character sheet is the right place to potentially show timers like this. There are a number of different views within the team itself, so that's one of the reasons we have held off on a timer of some kind. Feedback like this is great though as it helps us know what you guys wants.
Showing the remaining game time in character sheet "all the time" would be great. Showing the remaining game time in ingame Calendar "all the time" would be Awesome! For example I create New Events in my Calendar every time I renew my subscription to be able to see when it expires ingame without the need to log in Account Management every time I wanna check that. Check The Tek a show about technology at https://TekSyndicate.com
"We cover hardware, pc games, indie games, legal policies that pertain to technology, the internet, and nerd culture." |
Prophet Avater
Imperium Technologies Get Off My Lawn
40
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:00:00 -
[258] - Quote
If you don't like it, don't use it., simples! |
Firnas
The Nintendo Generation
14
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 19:15:00 -
[259] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Firnas wrote:This essentially saves no money except the potential character transfer fee at the end for someone who trains alts and then consolidates them.
In fact, you can't save as much as you could if you were planning on having a long term alt and wanted to pay more than monthly.
Unless there is a discount, if one plex = one month, I don't really see how this is anything other than a bit of flexibility at the expense of even more expensive alts.
Unimpressed. If you only need 1 month's training for the alt, then it's cheaper.
Still unimpressed.
You can do more things with a 14 year old dog with two legs than can be done with a one month alt.
Why sugar coat it? It's not more functionality, it's another product for monetary gain for CCP.
I'm not knocking it as that, but dressing it up as some very special thing you've rolled out for us is just not really it. This isn't top trump, it's boring dreck.
Show me something impressive.
This is like the meta game equivalent of Ambulation, and only slightly more useful than that awful idea was.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9801
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 09:30:00 -
[260] - Quote
Well then it's a damb shame that CCP are sending armed ninjas round to your house to force you to use it, isn't it? In hindsight that part of dual training was a mistake I guess.
Also can you give me a list of professions that you have no interest in and ships you never fly so CCP can remove those top?
1 Kings 12:11
|
|
dewamerah
ZA MUAMMARA KADDAFI P-A-T-R-I-O-T-S
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 10:58:00 -
[261] - Quote
what's the point if u still need PLEX to activate it?? its just same with having 2 account,the 2 account method is way much better,u can play 2 toons at the same time,but what the points with dual character training that need plex but won't add in games times,with 2 account yes you pay 1 extra plex but u have 2 account ,with this dual training u gonna pay 2 plex for 1 account, u guys do the math :) |
dewamerah
ZA MUAMMARA KADDAFI P-A-T-R-I-O-T-S
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 11:10:00 -
[262] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Ichi Bomb wrote:Arisidana, an almighty 2 month old alt is the first to admit she is a Lemming of CCP and afraid of the truth.... next... The truth is Arisidana is right, there was a lot of BS in that post. If you don't like it, don't use it. I'll be the first to admit it has a very limited and niche appeal, but it's there all the same. But it shouldn't ever be cheaper than a sub. Oh and lol at the Plex ruining Eve.
yea keep licking, he got the point there.. |
Beans Headio
Crimson Ravens
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 11:31:00 -
[263] - Quote
First time Poster.
really looking forward to this Dual Training. as a new ish play will open up may doors for me.. i have 3 characters 2 of which on one account and im looking forward to the many new options this will give without paying for a constant account when i only wana skill a bit...
Really good work CCP Loving Eve |
Colt Blackhawk
The Amarrian Expendables
155
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 13:03:00 -
[264] - Quote
Hm....
I LIKE IT! THX CCP. |
Firnas
The Nintendo Generation
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 18:06:00 -
[265] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Well then it's a damb shame that CCP are sending armed ninjas round to your house to force you to use it, isn't it? In hindsight that part of dual training was a mistake I guess.
Also can you give me a list of professions that you have no interest in and ships you never fly so CCP can remove those top?
Wow, kid, did you make on the CSM on the back of that "bad boy" attitude?
I think what I was attempting to indicate, which went as far over your head as most of the jokes you heard in life that didn't involve scatological references, was that this is yet another area where CCP has demonstrated that they're focusing on things that get them money, not things that really improve our game.
If they want to do this, I say go to it, that's fine. My problem is with the rollout, the fanfare.
Mark my words, if they're rolling it out, it's because they believe you'll eventually train that second character up to the level where you decide you want to shift it off the account and set it up solo.
But hey, you keep on fanboi apologising for CCP every step of the way, just the sort of hardhitting CSM we can really use around here. |
Ikranis De'Arth
Nostromo Recovery Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 04:41:00 -
[266] - Quote
As a 20+ year MMO (MUDs mostly) developer/programmer, I can understand making micro transactions to help offset programming costs. I understand the semi-inflated price to have 2 toons on one account training at the same time as well. However, my only change to this as it is basically a convenience charge for skill-points would be the following; Make it a bought number of skill points ie. (1,400,000 = 28 days at 50k SP per day) and allow them to be applied all at once with a maximum of two skill point buys per account.
Now I know people will flame and say this is an unbalance, but due to the offset of cost it would still only provide 2 months of training in a 1 month time frame and a mechanic could be put into place that prohibits the points being spent on the main character of the account. (The system would sanity check so that you could not apply more points to one character then the others. thus you would still have a primary toon with more SP then the others)
Possible Questions and Answers; "But Ikranis you're making it pay to win!" Not really as the mechanic is already there, buy PLEX, sell PLEX for ISK....
"It will unbalance the game because people will train up faster alts!" Yes, you will train an alt instantly but will only be allowed to do it once a month, so long run, not so much.
"People will pay more to play and try to train up their alts faster to combat or whatever!" Sure, Yes, the point.... More people will want to explore nullsec, PvP, etc.
"It will hurt large alliances and corps that have been here for years..." No. The mega-corps and long time players will always have more ISK/Skill then the newbies, even if the newbies buy up SP's to offset time played.
CCP will do as they please, they created, control, and own it. This is just my suggestions.
Feel free to flame, or give constructive comments. --Ikranis--
|
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 05:26:00 -
[267] - Quote
Cleksha wrote:Ichi Bomb wrote:This dual training for PLEX idea is Bull$#!t !!! (BS)
I PAY for 3 accounts so I can train ''ALTS'' and have been for the last 7+ years.
I have a main and 2 paid so called ''ALTS'' .
CCP finally has 500,000 subscribers a month as mentioned at Fanfest 2013.
500,000 X $14.95 = $7,475,000 a MONTH CCP makes just off of EVE subscribers not to mention EVE related / trademarked products; EON Magazine, clothing, PLEX, etc....
PLEX = Ruining EVE !!!
Is $7.5M a month not enough Hilmar, Guard, Soundwave?
Remember your roots CCP, you guys were poor once too !!!
Only the ''RICH / SPOILED'' in RL players of EVE can keep up with this PLEX BS !!
I can afford 3 accounts a month but I refuse to pay $15 here and $15 there for virtual BS....
PLEX = Pilot License Extension, keep it that way!
If people want to buy PLEX aka VBS (Virtual BS) to pay for their ALTS I think that's fine.
The dual training idea and any other future ideas you have for screwing loyal EVE players out of their $ is BS!!!
Just because I don't want to pay for PLEX or don't have the time to play to pay for PLEX I can't dual train... this is not fair to a 7+ yr vet of the game, when some rich, asshat, noob, spoiled, assbag living off mommy and daddy can do it !!!
Sounds to me like CCP is running out of ideasGǪ.. I have always hated PLEX and always will. It screwed up the in game market enough as to where CCP had to step in and intervene a market which is GÇÿGÇÖsupposedlyGÇÖGÇÖ player driven?
This is an idea that should have been released and forgotten in INCARNA.
Anyone that doesnGÇÖt like this post:
Is rich in real life and has a ton of $ for PLEX.
Has their rich parents pay for their EVE accounts.
CanGÇÖt or wonGÇÖt pay for GÇÿGÇÖREALGÇÖGÇÖ alt accounts.
DonGÇÖt understand the GÇÿGÇÖtrueGÇÖGÇÖ underlying mechanics of the market, algorithms CCP uses, or the overall game itself.
Wants an easy way out.
Is ignorant and thinks that every idea CCP has is GÇÿGÇÖGREATGÇÖGÇÖ. (Incarna)
Needs something to disagree with.
Is a noob with no clue.
PLEX = BS and any smart EVE player can and should see that!!!
Also look at all the questions related to this PLEX BS.... It's mind boggling.. Can I swap my sisters account for my brothers account if its a Friday, or is the price of tea in China cheaper on the 3rd Saturday of every month? Well what if 3 squirrels eat 6 nuts on Wednesday, can I move my :06 seconds left on my DUAL TRAINING PLEX time to my mom's sock drawer on a Tuesday?
Give me an F'in break!
If the 11 pages I read before this is mankind at it's finest, we will never invent a ''real'' star gate!!!.... LO mother f'in L.
Send all the hate mails and posts you wantGǪ it just lets me know who can handle the truth and who canGÇÖt! =) Soo... When you Rage quit can I have your stuff?
He will put his stuff in your mouth.
|
Katana Seiko
Made in Germany
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 08:55:00 -
[268] - Quote
There's one feature that no one seems to really ask for.. If you have space in your queue, why not allow the other char to fill some space? Say 19 hours free. Add 9 hours with your second char, fill the rest with your char's 90 days freighter 5 skill.. Should not be THAT hard - or is it? |
TriNitY Jewel
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 09:20:00 -
[269] - Quote
I like the idea of the dual character training, however I find it an inconvenience to have to log out of one toon to log into another toon on the same account.
Maybe in a future patch we could see the following: Being able to have two toons logged in at the same time, so for example your main could be exploring/pvping etc... and you could then flick over to your other toon to carry on checking your orders for station trading and such like.
However, I understand CCP's reluctance to allow two toons to be logged in at the same time. But in order to differentiate between having two separate accounts and two toons logged in on the same account, the provision could be made that only one toon could be in space at any given time and the other must stay docked up. |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 13:26:00 -
[270] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:The time runs like subscription time, it does not pause if you have no two characters in training.
It was all TL;DR past Page 2 but briefly:
CCP RubberBAND: Can you confirm that if Char's:
A+B are Dual Training and I pause training on B that I will be able to start training on C or on any combination of 2 Chars? E.g. A+B, A+C, C+B, C+A without an additional PLEX aside from the one required to start Dual Training?
Thanks. My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
|
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 13:36:00 -
[271] - Quote
Verlaine Glariant wrote:Suddenly the "Logout to Character Selection Screen" turns even more needed than before.
I've been 7 years waiting for it. And counting...
See my Idea in my sig...throw some support behind it if your like it My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Arelorn
Daader-Gost Mining Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:39:00 -
[272] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:Haedris Gost wrote:After reading the blog, I have this to comment;
Right now people running two clients on the same computer have to (ALT+TAB) to go to the second client - logged into a separate account - (the second instance of the eve game running in the background) to perform any actions with the second character, but they are both capable of doing things with each other at the same time,
First off who says people do this. You might but not all. If you use multiple clients & don't put each client in window mode, then you are doing it wrong. I have 4 monitors for my clients, so each monitor has its own client in window mode for it. I never ever, ever had to use (Alt+tab).
okaaaay, and for those of us who have only one monitor, how would you suggest they see another client that is running in the background??
(You're picking nits, and you completely missed the point that the second training character has no advantage of being able to interact and coordinate with the first character in the account - stay on topic please.) |
Arelorn
Daader-Gost Mining Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 20:23:00 -
[273] - Quote
Katana Seiko wrote:There's one feature that no one seems to really ask for.. If you have space in your queue, why not allow the other char to fill some space? Say 19 hours free. Add 9 hours with your second char, fill the rest with your char's 90 days freighter 5 skill.. Should not be THAT hard - or is it?
It's definitely an idea worth repeating until someone clues into the fact that it's cheaper than buying a non-functional alt with it's head stuck full of skills in the loo.
"Hey! Help me mine this asteroid!" "No." "Why not? You trained up on exhumers." "I can't." "Why?" "Because CCP nailed my ass to the can while I study. I can't go anywhere while I'm training." "Sounds like you got detention, not a present." "Can you hand me another PLEX? I'm about to run out of actual game time." "No, I gave what I had left to you for training." "So now when we run out we get what?" "Nothing, you have to wait until I get another month paid before you can resume training." "What??" "Yeah, sucks huh? Want to help me mine?" "I can't...."
|
Raven Smog
New Eden Big Lotto
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 21:39:00 -
[274] - Quote
This feature could have been more useful and a bigger cash cow if it allowed you to train a second skill on your main even if it had a small penalty.
Currently I would rather use a second account and if i play both when i am online and both are making money or helping me clear missions fast or one mines and the other is doing pvp i guarantee i could make enough isk using that second character to more then cover the transfer fee if i decided to quit training that character.
I won't be using it because it's a useless feature. a alt account that ca't logon and double your profits. |
Claire Raynor
NovaGear Limitless Inc.
152
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 11:17:00 -
[275] - Quote
This new multi training is awesome!!!
I have a new niche character - and they need to get good at one thing :P - Just one thing. One thing and some minimal fitting skills. And they are now getting good at that one thing!!!!
Thanks for the feature - I will be enjoying my Alt soon :)
Wickid! |
Mournful Conciousness
Special Situations TOHA Conglomerate
85
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 12:09:00 -
[276] - Quote
I think I would consider using it if a plex bought me 2 months of alt training. As it stands, it seems like poor value to me because it's the same cost as funding 2 accounts, but with half the utility (I can only use one of the characters at once).
|
William Sedgwick Vyvorant
Why Mine
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 15:33:00 -
[277] - Quote
Personally, I like it, I've got my main who has the queue almost all the time and my alt only rarely gets it (i.e when I go to a clean clone for going into Null etc.) so the ability to buy a plex from the market and get my alt 30 days of skill queue time to make him a better miner, salvager and hauler is great, heck I may even let him use T2 drones if there's time left over.
If you want to train a character long term then use Power of Two then pay/plex the account until you're done once it expires then move it to a spare slot on another account if you want. For short train alts like Miners, PI, haulers or cynos then this is a great feature.
Good job CCP |
Susitna
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 04:01:00 -
[278] - Quote
I like the idea. However, I will not use it by buying a plex. I would use it today if I could just by it at the same rate as a subscrition. . |
Dargen Heluene
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 19:32:00 -
[279] - Quote
I did a quick search and was not able to find any information in this thread on one detail: When you activate Dual Training, does your 30 days end at the same time of day that you started it, or does it end at the next server downtime? |
Eric Agerwal
Cryosoft
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 14:27:00 -
[280] - Quote
Dual account is a nice addition - but like other suggest - why not allow 1 PLEX per alt - so if I want to spend 3 PLEX in a month on an account let it happen. Also it would be nice to see an in game system channel called account- like local/region/constallation that gives notifications of either skill queue inactive - or skill queue ends in an hour for any alts on the account. This way if you are training alts up for R&D, Industry etc you can relog and tweak queue.. Since there are no visual cues as things stand we need this. |
|
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
171
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 14:37:00 -
[281] - Quote
I am currently taking advantage of this Dual Character training feature. For years, I have had two empty slots on this account because it was my main & could never get myself to stop training it.
I bought a plex and started dual training, just finished my first cyno alt in 12 days, starting on my second cyno alt for 12 days. The week I have left after second cyno alt is trained, I will train each alt a few days in something that matters.
I will then be done, will not have to buy another plex. I will have two useful cyno alts for my cap pilots on other accounts.
The upside is never had to stop training on my main, didn't have to train cyno alts on another account & then waste four plexes to transfer both alts to this account. So, net saved is 3 plexes & no time lost on main (me).
Awesome feature that was needed for a long time, thanks CCP. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Tsopanaa
Surfers of the Apocalypse Trueheart Legion
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 06:54:00 -
[282] - Quote
Where is the remaining time of the Dual Character displayed?I cant find it in account management |
Dargen Heluene
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 14:36:00 -
[283] - Quote
Tsopanaa wrote:Where is the remaining time of the Dual Character displayed?I cant find it in account management
Yes, this is something I want as well. The only thing the Account page tells you is when you can add another plex for additional training, but it does not tell you how long your current dual training will last. |
Tsopanaa
Surfers of the Apocalypse Trueheart Legion
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 14:58:00 -
[284] - Quote
Dargen Heluene wrote:Tsopanaa wrote:Where is the remaining time of the Dual Character displayed?I cant find it in account management Yes, this is something I want as well. The only thing the Account page tells you is when you can add another plex for additional training, but it does not tell you how long your current dual training will last.
The problem is worse .You get the message about the remaining days for re-activation until the last week.After that this info is not even available. Transaction History shows nothing about a plex activated for dual training ,at least i could see when i activated the plex and what time and add 30 days. I hope the SP i trained in these 30 days on my alt will remain and not vanish since there is no proof of the activation of the dual character training aka "our logs show nothing" etc etc |
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
69
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 15:09:00 -
[285] - Quote
Yeah, that is really annoying. There should be at least a trace to find out how long that option is still active. Shadoo > whoever was the first nyx on grid Shadoo > THANK GOD YOU ARE A SMART MAN and fitted the best tank in PL Shadoo > (ie. cyno) |
Taram Caldar
Asteria Imperative Tribal Band
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 12:46:00 -
[286] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:I think I would consider using it if a plex bought me 2 months of alt training. As it stands, it seems like poor value to me because it's the same cost as funding 2 accounts, but with half the utility (I can only use one of the characters at once).
Technically it's a 'higher' cost than running 2 accounts since, as you said, you have no functionality on the plexed character other than training while a 2nd account can be fully accessed, played, used, etc. Not to mention the one training uses it's plexed time whether it's actually training or not. Doesn't benefit from 'power of two' deals or 'buddy code' deals, etc.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.-á He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." |
Ole Volan
Xeno's Casino
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 21:00:00 -
[287] - Quote
The last line on CCP Quant's Devblog, "Dual Character Training", dated May 15th. says, Quote:"For improved visibility, please note that activated and remaining Dual Character Training time may be seen at any time in the Account Management page."
This is not the case!
If your character has over 7 days of dual char training left, then you get a date when you can add another 30 days. Add 7 days to that and you can figure out you expiration date.
But if you have less than 7 days left, there is no reference as to when your dual char training expires.
And this is when you need this information the most!!
I don't care where this information is shared. The account management page is fine. That is where you promised it was going to be.
But this critical information is not displayed anywhere. NOT ANYWHERE!
Is this an oversight? Or do you want our skill plans to fail so we are forced to buy another plex? |
Dargen Heluene
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 11:49:00 -
[288] - Quote
Well, my 30 days of training ended. It seems that the training ends at exactly 720 hours. So I guess it is possible to keep track of when the training will end, if you remember the exact time that you started it, but it still makes sense to have that date and time listed in some way. |
Twikki
The Rusty Muskets Lost Obsession
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 21:18:00 -
[289] - Quote
Some interesting posts here. I will apologise in advance if i repeat anything that has been prevouisly said. These forums just send my eyes all funky.
Ok Duel Character Training, its a great thing About Time.
However, it is too expensive! You are paying over the odds for a character you can use at the same time.
I have however, used it twice. And i now realise it would have been cheaper to create a new account train the character to how i want him, then transfer him.
I agree with a previous post it should be free! The above is not going to happen. So there should be a cheaper option.
For example, 1 plex will allow 60 days off duel character training or even 90. (i prefer the 90 day option myself )
After all you cant use both characters at the same time, and CCP will still make there money. Proberly more to be fair as more people would use this service.
Just my 2 pennies worth |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
536
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 20:04:00 -
[290] - Quote
This is ridiculous, I want to know how many days I have left and this information is not available anywhere. Not in the character sheet, not in Account Management, not in Evemon (so probably not available via API).
I cannot even calculate if from purchase date because it is not listed in the account transaction history! Although other payments via PLEX are listed there. . |
|
Danyrd
Capsuleer Outfitters Easily Excited
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 11:29:00 -
[291] - Quote
Twikki wrote:Some interesting posts here. I will apologise in advance if i repeat anything that has been prevouisly said. These forums just send my eyes all funky. Ok Duel Character Training, its a great thing About Time. However, it is too expensive! You are paying over the odds for a character you can use at the same time. I have however, used it twice. And i now realise it would have been cheaper to create a new account train the character to how i want him, then transfer him. I agree with a previous post it should be free! The above is not going to happen. So there should be a cheaper option. For example, 1 plex will allow 60 days off duel character training or even 90. (i prefer the 90 day option myself ) After all you cant use both characters at the same time, and CCP will still make there money. Proberly more to be fair as more people would use this service. Just my 2 pennies worth It is a shame 1, Devs pretty much stop monitoring threads after the 1st page of replies. So the good suggestions and ideas remain just that, suggestions and ideas. 2., That it really doesn't matter what the paying customer thinks. The thinking seems to revolve around short term high gain, rather than long term gain but at a slightly lower rate. $20 / 550+mil isk for 30 days training is not really something the average player will be using more than once or twice, due to cost. Twikki's suggestion of 60 or 90 days would in fact probably see the use of dual character training taken up by a lot more.
|
|
CCP Quant
C C P C C P Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 16:46:00 -
[292] - Quote
Danyrd wrote:Twikki wrote:Some interesting posts here. I will apologise in advance if i repeat anything that has been prevouisly said. These forums just send my eyes all funky. Ok Duel Character Training, its a great thing About Time. However, it is too expensive! You are paying over the odds for a character you can use at the same time. I have however, used it twice. And i now realise it would have been cheaper to create a new account train the character to how i want him, then transfer him. I agree with a previous post it should be free! The above is not going to happen. So there should be a cheaper option. For example, 1 plex will allow 60 days off duel character training or even 90. (i prefer the 90 day option myself ) After all you cant use both characters at the same time, and CCP will still make there money. Proberly more to be fair as more people would use this service. Just my 2 pennies worth It is a shame 1, Devs pretty much stop monitoring threads after the 1st page of replies. So the good suggestions and ideas remain just that, suggestions and ideas. 2., That it really doesn't matter what the paying customer thinks. The thinking seems to revolve around short term high gain, rather than long term gain but at a slightly lower rate. $20 / 550+mil isk for 30 days training is not really something the average player will be using more than once or twice, due to cost. Twikki's suggestion of 60 or 90 days would in fact probably see the use of dual character training taken up by a lot more.
We love getting feedback and you guys have already pointed out some really good improvements to the current implementation. I assure you the lack of feedback from us here has more to do with the summer vacation period than anything else Rest assured, there will be iterations on this feature in the future, hopefully sooner rather than later. |
|
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
96
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 17:03:00 -
[293] - Quote
CCP Quant wrote:We love getting feedback and you guys have already pointed out some really good improvements to the current implementation. I assure you the lack of feedback from us here has more to do with the summer vacation period than anything else Rest assured, there will be iterations on this feature in the future, hopefully sooner rather than later.
This post contained no information or actual feedback whatsoever.
Specifically which comments have you taken in to account, and exactly what iterations will you be making, and where are they on the development plan?
Please don't insult your players with politician-like waffle. It damages the relationship between me (us) and you.
Thanks in advance.
|
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
119
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 17:16:00 -
[294] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:CCP Quant wrote:We love getting feedback and you guys have already pointed out some really good improvements to the current implementation. I assure you the lack of feedback from us here has more to do with the summer vacation period than anything else Rest assured, there will be iterations on this feature in the future, hopefully sooner rather than later. This post contained no information or actual feedback whatsoever. Specifically which comments have you taken in to account, and exactly what iterations will you be making, and where are they on the development plan? Please don't insult your players with politician-like waffle. It damages the relationship between me (us) and you. Thanks in advance.
Waffles, you need more, with blueberry syrup and sugar and stuff.
He did not give you an answer, he is bad.
Half of CCP on vacation, they are still looking at it, he felt compelled to actually instigate a reply to this thread, and he let ya know there is a "iteration" incoming "though when a person says "Hopefully", it probably means "pipe dream".
Good enough answer for the moment. We would like to know what there thinking, they aren't prepared to say so yet, and thats because the moment they do, expect a threadnaught (good or bad), to follow it.
|
Sarmatiko
1336
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 18:02:00 -
[295] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Specifically which comments have you taken in to account, and exactly what iterations will you be making, and where are they on the development plan?
What they should respond to generic feedback like "whaaaa, CCP, I cant afford Dual Training and this is some strong evidence that no one else can afford it! So make it free or super cheap because I'm very important"? If you looking for reasoning behind necessity of dual-training - then you don't know what you want and shouldn't use this feature. If you know why you really need dual-training alt on single account- then you will pay the current price without any doubt. -¥ |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
96
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 12:03:00 -
[296] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:Specifically which comments have you taken in to account, and exactly what iterations will you be making, and where are they on the development plan?
What they should respond to generic feedback like "whaaaa, CCP, I cant afford Dual Training and this is some strong evidence that no one else can afford it! So make it free or super cheap because I'm very important"? If you looking for reasoning behind necessity of dual-training - then you don't know what you want and shouldn't use this feature. If you know why you really need dual-training alt on single account- then you will pay the current price without any doubt. Mournful Conciousness wrote:I think I would consider using it if a plex bought me 2 months of alt training. Why only two months for one plex? Let's ask four months per plex and wait for CCP response to this "great" suggestion \o/
|
Akira Codolle
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.08.17 15:08:00 -
[297] - Quote
Can we get a timer to tell us how much time we have left on our dual character training? It's all nice and dandy that you know when you're within 7 days.. but that's not very useful when you're trying to plan a proper skill queue. |
Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
187
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Posted - 2013.08.26 21:25:00 -
[298] - Quote
Today evening I check evemon to see what's the situation on my skills and mails on my accounts and strange thing happen ; there's characters missing their training, but evemon don't say anything. I log to search and answer, and realize I don't have dual account anymore. I had to search my wallet entry to check which date I bough a PLEX for that to know it was not an error...
Seriously, can't you add a notification or something to let us know when dual training is about to wear off?! |
Izzie Epic
Lacuna Cercops Unlimited
0
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Posted - 2013.09.15 22:33:00 -
[299] - Quote
seriously, why can't we see our balance of remaining training time (a resource we paid for)?
unless it's published somewhere i can't find... however, SO many other people can't find it. if there was a clever person out there i'd hope they would have shared the answer before 15 pages of "wtf is my balance"
i hope your vacations were nice, because we would really like you to get to work, and allow us manage our training.
i can't think of any reason to do this besides 'lazy.' this is speculation, true. what else are we left to do w/o more information? help us out!
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Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
636
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Posted - 2013.09.16 19:35:00 -
[300] - Quote
Izzie Epic wrote: seriously, why can't we see our balance of remaining training time (a resource we paid for)?
unless it's published somewhere i can't find... however, SO many other people can't find it. if there was a clever person out there i'd hope they would have shared the answer before 15 pages of "wtf is my balance"
i hope your vacations were nice, because we would really like you to get to work, and allow us manage our training.
i can't think of any reason to do this besides 'lazy.' this is speculation, true. what else are we left to do w/o more information? help us out!
Yeah, why would you NOT put some sort of timer in there?
This is really a PITA atm. |
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xBumper Baby
Joss Ackland's Spunky Backpackers
11
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Posted - 2013.09.18 08:32:00 -
[301] - Quote
Akira Codolle wrote:Can we get a timer to tell us how much time we have left on our dual character training? It's all nice and dandy that you know when you're within 7 days.. but that's not very useful when you're trying to plan a proper skill queue.
Yup, this needs some lurve.
API lurve. |
Thermo Nuked
Terra Hawks The Initiative.
0
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Posted - 2013.10.13 12:17:00 -
[302] - Quote
since i started playing eve, i had always wanted to train the alts on my accounts, but this is not that way i am interested in doing it, i already pay for the account and the 3 character slots, i should be able to train all 3 at the same time, for the subscription i already pay for, charging more than my current subscription to train an alt on my account is little more than robbery.
no other game charges people to use alts, and most of us already have 1, 2 or more alt accounts already, gouging more and more money out of players is not a good idea. |
Twentyone 12
Test For Echo
2
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Posted - 2013.10.17 14:14:00 -
[303] - Quote
Thermo Nuked wrote:since i started playing eve, i had always wanted to train the alts on my accounts, but this is not that way i am interested in doing it, i already pay for the account and the 3 character slots, i should be able to train all 3 at the same time, for the subscription i already pay for, charging more than my current subscription to train an alt on my account is little more than robbery.
no other game charges people to use alts, and most of us already have 1, 2 or more alt accounts already, gouging more and more money out of players is not a good idea.
CCP does not charge for alts. You get three characters total on each account. In other games you can only "skill" one character at any time, same as in Eve. |
Trafalgar Raw
Crimson Reavers
0
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Posted - 2013.10.18 16:10:00 -
[304] - Quote
So...
Why don't you just get another account and Plex it, so you can do the same thing you are saying and actually multibox with it? and you get bonus training days with that!!!!
Once you're done transfer it over and you are pretty much all set. I really don't see the usage in this.
Correct me if I am wrong. |
Jenjuan
Amargosa Observatory
0
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Posted - 2013.12.15 04:19:00 -
[305] - Quote
Trafalgar Raw wrote:So...
Why don't you just get another account and Plex it, so you can do the same thing you are saying and actually multibox with it? and you get bonus training days with that!!!!
Once you're done transfer it over and you are pretty much all set. I really don't see the usage in this.
Correct me if I am wrong.
You're completely right. MCT costs $20.00 for 30 days, where you can buy ingame time for just $15.00 for 30 days. What's the point? Especially considering that there's discounts in buying 3, 6 and 12 month terms. I guess I can see if you want to do this very short term, to train up some specific skills, but for the most part I see it as a waste of cash.
Considering that you can't use both characters at the same time, this would only be worth it if this were good for 60 days per Plex, at the current price it absolutely makes no sense.
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