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Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
498
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Posted - 2013.05.19 15:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not a big buyer of in game currency. It always seems like cheating to me and ends up taking away more opportunity to interact with the game than it provides.
I have purchased currency in other games just to see what that would be like. The coolest part was the actual transaction, it felt like a shady deal in a dark alley where I was getting something that I wanted for a good price.
But after the fact the currency and the items that I bought with it felt empty of meaning in a way. I stopped playing that character soon after and left that game for a while.
In Eve PLEX is part of the game. Buying a few PLEX to start an investment is a great option, that can pay off in the long run because the investment could eventually start to buy PLEX to play. I think it can be argued that PLEX is one of the most innovative and important innovations in the history of gaming.
there have been a few times that I have thought about buying one; an investment that would have probably returned the money in a year or so, an expensive ship that I wanted to buy, and a few times just for the experience of dealing in one. To this point I have not, 20$ for .5 billion ISK never seemed to be worth it.
I was thinking about PLEX the other day and wrote out some of the pro's and cons, I'm not going to bore you with the details. The bottom line however was intersting, it came out to 2 billion ISK.
What is your bottom line? -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Obunagawe
11
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Posted - 2013.05.19 15:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
When the isk/hour in-game is better than the isk/hour working IRL and buying PLEX.
For me, I'd need to be earning 20 times as much IRL to make it cost effective for me to finance my EVE with real money.
That's before we consider that RL money supply is limited, while EVE isk supply is as much as you put hours into it. So that's a point in favor of using ISK to pay for EVE. |
Danni stark
305
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Posted - 2013.05.19 15:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
i'd probably never buy plex to sell, regardless of the cost of plex.
as it stands i buy plex with isk to fund all of my accounts. Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
BadAssMcKill
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
255
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Posted - 2013.05.19 15:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
I can see your point , but however look at it from CCP's point of view. How many players would buy plex to keep their accounts going if they cost 2 billion?
I think 500-600 million is a decent middle ground Starships were meant to fly~
http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif |
Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
287
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:I can see your point , but however look at it from CCP's point of view. How many players would buy plex to keep their accounts going if they cost 2 billion?
I think 500-600 million is a decent middle ground ^
I think PLEX is actually undervalued. The real reason why it's so low is that everytime it peaks above 600M CCPs economic designers begin to dump all their confiscated/bought-in-game PLEX on the markets. |
floating in space
University of Caille Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
I wonder what would happen to the Character Bazaar if PLEX were worth 2b |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
337
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote: there have been a few times that I have thought about buying one; an investment that would have probably returned the money in a year or so, an expensive ship that I wanted to buy, and a few times just for the experience of dealing in one. To this point I have not, 20$ for .5 billion ISK never seemed to be worth it.
Seriously, did you not read what you have just written?
If the investment is returned 'in a year or so' surely it doesn't matter how much they cost (unless that cost changes over the year)
If you buy 20bn ISK for $20 and 20bn ISK returns $20 or 100m ISK for $20 and 100m ISK returns $20 in a year why does it matter what the conversion is?
Candy's Capital Shop |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
149
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Posted - 2013.05.19 18:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
I bought Plexes to sell for ISK when I still lived with my parents and they paid for my gas.
Now I'm on my own and have rent to pay (not in-game, thankfully), my own gas, my own electric bill, my own internet bill.......
you better believe I'm buying Plexes with ISK for game time now. |
stoicfaux
2710
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Posted - 2013.05.19 19:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
If PLEX sold for two billion isk, then that two billion isk would only be worth 0.5 to 0.6 billion isk in today's isk.
Given Eve's historical inflation rate, how long would it take for things to cost four times as much? If you can answer that question, then you'll have a good idea on when you can sell a PLEX for two billion.
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Danni stark
305
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Posted - 2013.05.19 19:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:If PLEX sold for two billion isk, then that two billion isk would only be worth 0.5 to 0.6 billion isk in today's isk.
Given Eve's historical inflation rate, how long would it take for things to cost four times as much? If you can answer that question, then you'll have a good idea on when you can sell a PLEX for two billion.
~140/(inflation as a percentage)
is how long it would be. Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
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Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
395
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Posted - 2013.05.19 20:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Look. Chances are if you are buying plex with isk, you are most likley earning less than minimum wage in a sense.
If you work at McDonalds in the USA and work two hours you can pay for a month subscription for $7.50 and hour. For working 4 hours you can earn subscription and a plex.
Basically if you cannot make your subscription plus 500 million isk with 4 hours of EVE then you are wasting your time.
Unless, you are enjoying playing EVE more than working at McDonalds then I suppose its not that bad.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Danni stark
305
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Posted - 2013.05.19 20:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Look. Chances are if you are buying plex with isk, you are most likley earning less than minimum wage in a sense.
If you work at McDonalds in the USA and work two hours you can pay for a month subscription for $7.50 and hour. For working 4 hours you can earn subscription and a plex.
Basically if you cannot make your subscription plus 500 million isk with 4 hours of EVE then you are wasting your time.
Unless, you are enjoying playing EVE more than working at McDonalds then I suppose its not that bad.
i've worked in a mcdonalds.
i'd rather spend 30 days making 500m isk than work there, it's a ******, thankless job and unless the people you work with have a great sense of humour it's a ******* hellhole. Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
156
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Posted - 2013.05.19 20:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Look. Chances are if you are buying plex with isk, you are most likley earning less than minimum wage in a sense.
If you work at McDonalds in the USA and work two hours you can pay for a month subscription for $7.50 and hour. For working 4 hours you can earn subscription and a plex.
Basically if you cannot make your subscription plus 500 million isk with 4 hours of EVE then you are wasting your time.
Unless, you are enjoying playing EVE more than working at McDonalds then I suppose its not that bad.
Indeed, the argument works if you like your job more than playing Eve. I also Plex my accounts since I enjoy making money in Eve. Might come as a shock to some people but I actually would even play Eve if I didn't make virtual currency. On the other hand I would quit my job if it didn't pay me.
I like playing Eve and the ability to pay in game is a nice bonus. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
395
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Posted - 2013.05.19 21:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Celeste Taylor wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Look. Chances are if you are buying plex with isk, you are most likley earning less than minimum wage in a sense.
If you work at McDonalds in the USA and work two hours you can pay for a month subscription for $7.50 and hour. For working 4 hours you can earn subscription and a plex.
Basically if you cannot make your subscription plus 500 million isk with 4 hours of EVE then you are wasting your time.
Unless, you are enjoying playing EVE more than working at McDonalds then I suppose its not that bad.
Indeed, the argument works if you like your job more than playing Eve. I also Plex my accounts since I enjoy making money in Eve. Might come as a shock to some people but I actually would even play Eve if I didn't make virtual currency. On the other hand I would quit my job if it didn't pay me. I like playing Eve and the ability to pay in game is a nice bonus.
Yeah. I think my point is that if you don't enjoy grinding isk in game, then then buying plex is a better option.
Also if you make $30 an hour and work 60 hours a week then plex probaly is good for you.
If you do enjoy grinding isk, then grinding isk is better than paying. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Fatbear
Starwinders SCUM.
29
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Posted - 2013.05.19 21:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Some of us have the option of flexible IRL working, and thus choose how much to work and earn.
I can spend 4 hours in Eve making X amount of ISK, or I can do an additional bit of work for 1, earn some -ú-ú-ú, buy PLEXs for the same amount of ISK.
Easy choice.
Especially when most of the money making avenues in this game are soul destroyingly dull. |
D3F4ULT
178
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Posted - 2013.05.19 21:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm currently commuting to work at a job that's a hour away and I'm still paying for all three of my accounts while living on my own in college.
I just don't have the time to sit down and plow out isk to support my gaming experience. I'd rather spend an hour at work sitting at a desk then buy a PLEX for a quick 500-600m that would take me a month to make in the current fashion that I play.
"To each his own." "Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve" |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2084
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 21:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
The real question is what that 2 billion could buy you in the game if PLEXes cost that much. The price of a PLEX coincides pretty well with about two hours of minimum wage work in most first-world nations, and also coincides with about two-three hours of grinding the most profitable activities in the game (high-sec incursions, wormhole sleepers, null anomalies).
You'll never really be able to shift this equation. So, does it matter how much a PLEX actually costs in-game? I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars Unclaimed.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.19 22:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
This is just a foolish post. I'm sure you would buy and sell a plex if you could get 2 billion isk for it. Especially when time and trial has proven they are only worth about 550m. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 00:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote: there have been a few times that I have thought about buying one; an investment that would have probably returned the money in a year or so, an expensive ship that I wanted to buy, and a few times just for the experience of dealing in one. To this point I have not, 20$ for .5 billion ISK never seemed to be worth it.
Seriously, did you not read what you have just written? If the investment is returned 'in a year or so' surely it doesn't matter how much they cost (unless that cost changes over the year) If you buy 20bn ISK for $20 and 20bn ISK returns $20 or 100m ISK for $20 and 100m ISK returns $20 in a year why does it matter what the conversion is?
The time factor fool. Also, your name is disgusting. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 00:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:The real question is what that 2 billion could buy you in the game if PLEXes cost that much. The price of a PLEX coincides pretty well with about two hours of minimum wage work in most first-world nations, and also coincides with about two-three hours of grinding the most profitable activities in the game (high-sec incursions, wormhole sleepers, null anomalies).
You'll never really be able to shift this equation. So, does it matter how much a PLEX actually costs in-game?
CCP can do whatever they want with the price of PLEX. If they wanted to give more value to a PLEX they could just include a T3 cruiser with every one. If they wanted to lower the ISK price for PLEX they would just have to start seeding them here and there.
In the first case the price of all items in game would start to come down as inventory went up due to these PLEX items. So PLEX would be worth even more ISK and would take longer to grind for players buying them with in game currency.
In the second case the ISK price for PLEX would go down as supply went up.
CCP has never done this, but it wouldn't be difficult if they decided to.
My price of 2 bil is based on the point in time that I would like to see positive cash flow from a PLEX investment. Also just the value I currently place on in game goods. The idea of comparing RL work time to in game ISK grind time wasn't part of my breakdown.
-áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
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Eurydia Vespasian
Nova Insula Mining and Industrial
2677
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 00:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
i don't buy or use plex at this time. i'm perfectly comfortable just having my sub taken out automatically from an account.. one thing that i find weird about plex is that...my sub is $15 and a plex is $20. what's that about? pay more...for the same amount of time?
additionally, i don't like having to worry about making enough isk to plex my account. if i want to play a different game there is no pressure on me to have to play eve so i can make sure the account is paid for.
if i have an alt on the same account in the near future well, i could see myself purchasing plex for it to train as i want when i want. but as it stands currently i'm fine with paying for mine with rl money. i waste far more than $15 a month on frivolous crap as it is to worry about the cost of my sub lol |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2085
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 01:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:The real question is what that 2 billion could buy you in the game if PLEXes cost that much. The price of a PLEX coincides pretty well with about two hours of minimum wage work in most first-world nations, and also coincides with about two-three hours of grinding the most profitable activities in the game (high-sec incursions, wormhole sleepers, null anomalies).
You'll never really be able to shift this equation. So, does it matter how much a PLEX actually costs in-game? CCP can do whatever they want with the price of PLEX. If they wanted to give more value to a PLEX they could just include a T3 cruiser with every one. If they wanted to lower the ISK price for PLEX they would just have to start seeding them here and there. In the first case the price of all items in game would start to come down as inventory went up due to these PLEX items. So PLEX would be worth even more ISK and would take longer to grind for players buying them with in game currency. In the second case the ISK price for PLEX would go down as supply went up. CCP has never done this, but it wouldn't be difficult if they decided to. My price of 2 bil is based on the point in time that I would like to see positive cash flow from a PLEX investment. Also just the value I currently place on in game goods. The idea of comparing RL work time to in game ISK grind time wasn't part of my breakdown. Actually, the PLEX is almost a completely inelastic good. It's usually bought on a just-in-time basis, and the price isn't a factor for people who wouldn't otherwise pay cash subs anyway. They either afford the PLEX, or don't play.
If CCP bundles other crap with PLEXes without raising their cash price, the price of PLEXes would probably go down due to the much-increased supply. In fact it would probably go down to the point where the value of the PLEX and the value of its bundled items would together be equivalent to the value of a PLEX today. People would be buying more PLEXes from CCP due to the bundled stuff until the price reaches equilibrium.
If CCP seeds PLEXes, then the price would indeed go down, as long as CCP prices them aggressively. Since this would create a pretty big ISK sink, it would have a double effect: first because of CCP selling PLEXes for less ISK, and second because this would cause deflation, pushing all prices down.
But in either case I think that $15 charged by CCP would be equivalent to about 2-3 hours of high-end pve in-game. If CCP releases incursions 2.0 tomorrow and you can suck 500 million an hour from them, you can bet your ass that PLEXes would be pushing 2 billion within two weeks. Everything else would rise in price accordingly. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
642
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 03:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
It doesn't matter WHAT your job is, if its more fun than playing Eve go play your job instead. WTF are you playing Eve for if work is so all that?
If its not more fun than playing Eve then use Eve to finance itself. The exception to is any scenario where you have more money than free time, your job isn't fun, and you play Eve to have fun. Then selling PLEX is a great idea.
I'm not trying to hear the "you can afford it argument". That's each individual capsulers demon to bear, not yours. You don't get to make RL decisions for other players, period.
And that's why the system works so well, there are many scenarios out there to keep both sides of buying/selling PLEX alive and well.
From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |
Alexander McKeon
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
8
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Posted - 2013.05.20 04:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
I actually did the math on this once, and I figured that if I'm earning 300m ISK / hour by webbing & painting little red crosses for the dreads to kill, it's actually a tad better than what I get IRL, so I very definitely fund my accounts with PLEX. |
Aston Martin DB5
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2013.05.20 05:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
lulz, is this a thread endorsing plex? To me, plex is a complete joke and reveals the lack of content the game provides to players. If you need to buy plex to jump start something in a so called "sandbox" there are serious flaws to the game.
Then again the heart and sole for trade is Jita and ironically the local chat reinforces EVE's central theme: Scam |
Austin McLaren
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2013.05.20 05:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
I agree with Plex, I believe without it EvE wouldn't be how we know it today, the ones who hate to grind can fund ship losses (keeping them playing EvE) and the players who can't afford to sub are able to play.
I also believe that Plex are undervalued, the pve population easily grind a Plex a week without working excessively hard I don't think 800-1000m would be to much. My opinion is the miners strangle Plex from reaching its true value. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 06:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: Actually, the PLEX is almost a completely inelastic good. It's usually bought on a just-in-time basis, and the price isn't a factor for people who wouldn't otherwise pay cash subs anyway. They either afford the PLEX, or don't play.
If CCP bundles other crap with PLEXes without raising their cash price, the price of PLEXes would probably go down due to the much-increased supply. In fact it would probably go down to the point where the value of the PLEX and the value of its bundled items would together be equivalent to the value of a PLEX today. People would be buying more PLEXes from CCP due to the bundled stuff until the price reaches equilibrium. .... But in either case I think that $15 charged by CCP would be equivalent to about 2-3 hours of high-end pve in-game. If CCP releases incursions 2.0 tomorrow and you can suck 500 million an hour from them, you can bet your ass that PLEXes would be pushing 2 billion within two weeks. Everything else would rise in price accordingly.
Fair point about the increased number of PLEX caused by gifting additional items. There's nothing to stop CCP from buying the excess back off of the market themselves though. And because the PLEX already came with a bunch of value they only need to buy back enough to get the ISK price to its old level of 500 mil adjusted.
Then they just have to sink that ISK out of the system somewhere. A new tax on minerals or just a decrease in bounties.
Eve's economy is pretty similar to the real world, the only difference being that they have far more ability to control it than the central reserve. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2090
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 06:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:There's nothing to stop CCP from buying the excess back off of the market themselves though. And because the PLEX already came with a bunch of value they only need to buy back enough to get the ISK price to its old level of 500 mil adjusted. If CCP did this and someone found out, it would be the biggest gaming shitstorm since the release of Superman 64. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
2735
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 07:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
*reading the title* I'd boot some head. you? |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 07:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:There's nothing to stop CCP from buying the excess back off of the market themselves though. And because the PLEX already came with a bunch of value they only need to buy back enough to get the ISK price to its old level of 500 mil adjusted. If CCP did this and someone found out, it would be the biggest gaming shitstorm since the release of Superman 64.
They manipulate the economy all the time. The moon goo consortium was too restrictive so they implemented alchemy. Drone goo was problematic so they removed it. Mining wasn't turning enough so they increased the efficiency of mining barges. CCP has complete control over the Eve economy and they use that control all the time.
Why would there be a "shitstorm" over PLEX buyback?
-áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
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